The Ramsey Show - App - The Most Loving Thing You Can Do Is Be Honest About Money

Episode Date: May 26, 2025

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Music Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Jade Walshaw, Ramsey Personality is my co-host. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. We're glad you guys are with us. We're here to help you. Jade is a Ramsey Personality and bestselling author of the book Money's Not a Math Problem. It's one of our Ramsey Quick Reads, which means it is 74 pages long.

Is that right? Yeah, look at that. Pretty close. That's pretty good. Seventy close. It is 74 pages long. Look at that. My memory is impeccable. Steel trap. That's it. That's it. Hey, thanks for being with us, guys. We're glad we can serve you. We want you to be here and, gosh, help you move to the next level in whatever you're doing. All right. Rochelle is in Houston, Texas. Hi Rochelle. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi. Hi Dave. Hi Jay. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's

up? I just wanted to get Dave's input on a situation. So my husband and I, we have four kids who are a blended family. I have a daughter, he has a son, and then we have two boys together. His father died and he inherited some land from him at family land and so when we are talking about inheritance for our children he wants and understandably so the land to go to be split between the three boys because he wants to keep it in his bloodline and so I am fine with that but where we disagree is on how to do inheritance for my daughter. He thinks the land should be not even taken into consideration when we do inheritance, so monetary value, etc. shouldn't matter. And so what we're kind

of looking at is actually selling our current home and then using the money that we make to move to that land and then build on it. In which case we would live out the rest of our days there and put our money into it. And I think that that also should be taken into consideration. But he thinks that the boys should get the land split between them and then whatever else inheritance we have left should be split equally between all four kids and so I just kind of wanted your opinion on that. Does it occur to him how hurtful it is when he says that? I don't think so. If you said that's hurtful you're a but. I haven't said that. I try to talk very nicely to him. I know, but that's what my wife would have said. I'm just thinking.

And it is, it's very sentimental to him. His dad would be so happy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And Cinderella has to go, the stepchild has to go and mop the floors while the three other ones go to the ball. I lost you. Bye.

Are you there? Yeah, you cut out out I don't know what happened. Sorry. That's okay. Sorry. Then like I said I don't mind them getting the land that's totally fine. How much land is involved? It's only about 33 acres right now. It was his grandmother's land she sold it and then his dad bought back this portion and was wanting to buy the remainder of it surrounding it and so my husband wants to buy back the remainder as well if we can. The what? The remainder is how much on top of the 33?

I don't know how much more there is that he would want to buy. What is your personal income and what is his income? He makes about 65 and I make about 55 right now. But we both increase pretty regularly. How old are you guys? 36. Okay. All right.

Well, I don't know that our opinion really matters here because Bubba's made his mind up. Yeah. So I just kind of wanted to know. Because Bubba's made his mind up. Yeah. So... I just kind of wanted to know if I was in the... You know, I think that, you know, probably what you've got is a situation where you need to sit down with your pastor, marriage counselor, somebody like that. I

just... It is a thing to require some thought, but after just listening to you, so here's what I've got, okay? You make half the money in the house, approximately. You guys are going to be married and living there probably 40 years, so more than three quarters of your life, his life, is going to be spent doing things together here, including your daughter. And so I'm just calling BS. I think that these four kids should be treated equally because your connection to it, because you're wanting to, he's wanting you to use your income and help him buy a house on land he doesn't want to leave to your daughter.

After 40 years. How old are the kids? My daughter is 14, my stepson is 13, and then our twins are 2. What a wedge. Yeah. Yeah. No, and that's thing one. Thing two is people and relationships trump stuff. This kid is more important than this piece of land. And he's her daddy now. And she lives with y'all, right? Yeah, she does currently, yes. Yeah. His relationship to her is more important than 33 freaking acres in Texas.

Okay. I just don't. I would give him about a 20% part of the right answer here and about 80% wrong so he loses. I feel like a different scenario would be you guys were 55 years old, it was your second marriage and the kids are grown. That feels different. Yeah, it's different. That's a completely different situation with saying hey.

But you're contributing, you know, the vast majority, you're contributing half with the sale of the house and the building of the house and your income for 40 years from age 35 to age 65, to age 75, right? You're contributing half all the way through there, and so how your daughter doesn't get into that half is ridiculous. Okay. So how your daughter doesn't get into that half is ridiculous. From a math standpoint, from a philosophical or spiritual standpoint, it's just a stupid piece of dirt.

I don't really care where it came from. I mean, I've got some dirt that I own that I really love, and I'd like to see my kids and grandkids playing on it. My great-grandkids, my great great great grandkids when I'm looking at them from heaven, I'd love to see them playing on that and enjoying that dirt, but I don't want it to form their life and I don't want them to value that dirt over relationships. Yeah, yes, yes sir.

Yeah, I just, I, so I don't buy off on the sentimental crap. You know if you I got You know Some hand tools from my dad Okay, that's sentimental Okay, they're ancient antique hand tools, right? And so those are sentimental but but I'm certainly not gonna let a wrench and a hammer Stand between me and a kid that I'm raising. Mm-hmm. I just, you know, that's how I put this. That's the bucket I put this in.

I agree. I agree wholeheartedly. So if the step kid wants the hammer, it's okay. That's fine. You know, give the other one the wrench. It's just stuff. Yeah, and I just, I don't want him. So I got, I got, I don't think he's thinking this through.

I don't think he's a butt. He's acting, but it, but, but it was kind of fun to say that. I kind of do. Yeah. In this moment. Yeah. I don't, I don't think he's a hurtful person. Like, ha ha ha ha ha. Sure, sure.

You know, I think that's what he's doing. Okay. He's not thought of it from all angles. But I just don't think he's thinking through the message he's sending to this teenage girl. And I don't like that message. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host.

Jade Washaw, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Javier is with us in Salt Lake City. Hi Javier, how are you? I'm doing well, how are you? I'm doing well, how are you? Better than I deserve, what's up? So overarching question is that my mom took out a bunch of loans in my name, she's making minimum payments but I'm trying to kind of get this whole thing sorted out and out of my name. How would you suggest that I approach her, the situation as a whole?

How old are you? Um, 27. When did all this happen, hun? Um, it started back in 22. I want to say 21, 22, it was after my divorce. So I was kind of just starting caution to the wind and just saying yes to everything. Oh, so you agreed to her doing this. Yes.

It all started because the landlord wanted to sell the house that she, that I grew up in, but she's currently living in and she offered us a pretty good deal. And my brother and I, we bought the house together for my mom. And now she's struggling to make the payments and I'm just waiting for the day that I get a call that, hey, your payments due and my wife and I, we can't afford the payment ourselves.

So I just don't know what to do. Wow. You bought the house together for your mom. And then she took out credit card loans in your name, all with your permission. Yes, sir. So whose name is on the mortgage? Yours? Yes, sir. And she's living in the house.

Rent-free. And the house, the property is titled to you as well, correct? Correct. She's paying the mortgage. It's just that her credit was too poor to actually make the loan out herself. So going back to the other debt, the other loan, how much money are we talking about on the credit cards?

I'm shy of 20,000. And what does your mom make a year? She's self-employed and she won't really give me a straight answer. If you had to guess what would you what would you say not much? She doesn't work much. She sucks blood off of her sons Okay She's a parasite. It's a horrible thing to say about your mother. I'm so sorry Just an observation. What's your living situation? I am currently living in an apartment in Utah and the house is in another state

Yeah, and your wife is in another state. Yeah. All right. And your wife is not happy with this situation, I would assume. She is not. And I'm not either. Okay. Okay. Um, and how old is mom? 55. Balthar. Yeah. Okay. So, um, and what is the house worth that she's living in?

I would say $350 to $400. And what do you owe on it? I want to say $220 to $250. I don't honestly know. Is your brother also on the mortgage? Yes, my brother's on the mortgage as well. And on the deed as well. Yeah, okay. So if you guys are- What's your brother saying about all this?

My brother wants to keep the house and he's just happy to go along because he wants to keep it for sentimental value. I personally agree with your team, but it's just a house. We can get another one. Yeah, so what would I do if I woke up in your shoes? This is going to be what is called a difficult conversation, my friend.

Your mom has gotten away with this misbehavior, under producing, and unbelievable asks of her grown sons rather than taking care of herself. A 55 year old woman ought to be able to build a sustainable life without sucking the blood off of her children, okay? Or man for that matter, okay? So this is not positive, your mom is not in a good situation mentally and spiritually, because otherwise she wouldn't have done this to

her own kids and of course you all aren't because you allowed it to happen oh no you'd straight up endorsed it so what what I would do if I woke up in your shoes is I would go how long ago did you get married my wife and I we got married in a month ago okay this is gonna this is gonna come down on your wife if you're not real careful from your mother. Your mother's gonna blame her, because she's the new thing on the scene and about that time you evict your mom. So she's gonna end up blaming your wife if you're not real careful. So your wife does not need to be anywhere near this conversation, nor do you

quote her, nor do you even bring her up. She's not physically in the room, she's nowhere around, because it's not her fault, okay? So you need to travel with your brother and sit down with your mom and say, guys, I can't do this anymore. I'm looking at the future tenure, 10 years into the future and all I see is pain and trouble. There's a problem here. You're not you're ruining my credit. You're gonna I'm waiting for the phone call when you don't pay the mortgage and so what we're going to do is we're going to sell the house we're going to pay all the debt off and and we're gonna pay the

taxes associated with selling the house if there are any there shouldn't no there will be because it's not a personal residence you may have some tax capital gains on this so you pay your taxes and then you say, as for my half of what is left over equity, mom, I'm going to give that to you as a parting gift. And you can go set yourself up a life with that. And I'm not going to do anything anymore in the future. That's it. Brother, you can do with your half whatever you choose to do.

If you want to help mom get a house with that, that's fine. I'm done. We're selling the house. We're paying off the credit cards and I'll give you my half of what's left over after that after taxes. Do you anticipate your brother holding up that process or do you think that he'll go along with it? I think he would fold it up because he's not big on Ramsey. I found you guys cause I found your book, Breaking Free from Broke. Well, I mean, forget about the Ramsey part, just the idea of you cleaning this up cause it's very messy. Yeah, the thing to do with Ramsey, it's got to do with your mother

screwing her own kids over. Yeah. I honestly think he would not go along with it because he's seeing it as an investment on his... Then he can buy you out. He can buy you out. That's another option. But honey, we're selling the house. If he doesn't want to sell the house, then it's going to be a civil court action and the judge is going to demand that the partnership be dissolved by the selling of the house. We're selling the house. I'm not asking, we're telling you this is what we're doing. Now if you want to buy me out, that's okay.

The way you need to think of this is this is saving your marriage, by the way. Because your wife is not going to sit around and let your mom be the reason that she's not in her new house. You guys are in an apartment, you've been married for a month. If this messes around and causes you guys the future that she's envisioned, you're gonna have a much bigger problem on your hands. Mom, I love you and I've done more for you than I should have and I put myself and my future family in jeopardy because of you.

And you continue to misbehave with this. My bills are not being paid. You're destroying my credit and my future. We're selling the house. Little brother, if you don't wanna sell it, you can buy me out. You got 10 minutes, ready, set, go. You're on the clock, okay?

Because your little brother's codependent, like you were until something woke you up. And again, this has got nothing to do with Ramsey. Don't you blame it on your new wife and don't you blame it on Ramsey? It's not Ramsey. This is you stood up. I'm a 27 year old freaking man with a backbone and this is madness and the madness ends. It's not a sign of love to continue in codependency. This is not an act of love. There's no love in this discussion. You can be kind, gentle. You don't have to be yelling and screaming But we are selling the house you can either do it voluntarily or I'll have a judge

Make you sell the house. We are selling the house. So y'all get your heads around that Whatever to flop it in the floor and foam it at the mouth you need to do but get your heads around that we are selling The house it's not an option The only other option is brother you buy me out or mom y'all buy me out get me off the mortgage and pay off all the credit cards and you got to do that in 90 days and you got it ready set go and if you're not gonna do that we are selling the house the best thing for mom by the way sell the house yeah put some money in her pocket tell her to get a freaking job. Self-employed for her is code for I don't work much.

That's what that is. That's code. This is The Ramsey Show. Jade Walshaw, Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. Dave is with us and Dave is in Orlando. Hi Dave, how are you? Hi, I'm good Dave. Thank you so much for taking my call.

Sure, what's up? Hi, so my wife and I, so we are foster parents and we were taking care of a baby pretty much from a newborn until about eight months. The mom did great. She, she got her kids back after she went through some struggles, uh, long story short. Um, her case has been closed. She has all her kids back and she is struggling again. So with pretty much all aspects of life, but, uh,

financially she made some poor decisions with a car ended up breaking down and She made some poor decisions with a car, ended up breaking down and she had to junk it. And she contacted us just for some help financially. We haven't helped her with money before, but obviously we love her son very much. We want her to succeed. We know that giving her money is not a long-term solution to anything. So we're really just trying to think about the best way to approach her, talk to her about, you know, what's going on, how her finances are, how she can get assistance, build a budget, um, et cetera. And,

and she's a very, very, uh, shy, closed off type person. So we don't want to scare her off, but obviously still wanting to help her. We're just looking for the best way to maybe approach that. Well, I mean, all you can do that's reasonable is to coach her. And the only way you can coach her is to the extent she'll accept the coaching, right? Right. And yeah, and I, yeah, I talked to her yesterday and she, you know, I asked her if she would be open to

having a financial conversation. My wife and I are in good shape, we're very stable. And if she said she was open to having that conversation, she said she doesn't really understand debt and just finances in general. And on top of that, I mean, she has three kids now. She's not working, has a baby who's now a year and her other two kids are nine and 10. And she just has absolutely no idea what to do. She can't get daycare for her, for her baby,

because in order to get assistance to the state, she has to have two paychecks before they'll provide daycare assistance. So she is just going crazy and we feel like she's close to, you know, getting back to a point where she may make some poor decisions or drugs or something like that and yeah. Well obviously the financial situation is again the symptom of all the things that have gone on in her life. But maybe you can coach some of the things in her life by using the financial door to go through.

Having dealt with this a bunch of times over the years the warning I would give you is I would tell you to be very very clear up front Because when you said financial conversation you meant coaching She might have heard money You're gonna have a conversation about how much money you're gonna give me yes I'll be happy to have that conversation when you when it's very clear to her that you're not going to give her money, cause you're not. That then, because this is a messed up toxic situation

if you start that, then she may cut you loose. So you need to be ready for that emotionally. And so I think, you know, what I would offer, if I were in this situation with your wife present, I would just say in person over a cup of coffee, look, we love the little boy and that means that we would love to help you. And our help to you would be that as your older brother and older sister here that are successful in a lot of areas of life that you're not yet we can show you a better path in a bunch of these areas and help her get plugged into

a good church they can help her with the daycare get started let someone do that but if she starts to see this baby as a ticket to get money out of you, this is going to get really ugly fast. Right, right, right. Yeah, and so she did move two hours away from us when the case was finally closed. I guess that was about a month ago, and we did at that time give her $200 to help moving expenses and get a truck to go down there. So I'm hoping that she doesn't think that that door is already open. She does. She does. But the trick is can you can you make a trip down there, sit down, be very clear we love you because we love this baby we want to

coach you and help you but it's gonna be we're gonna show you how to get's gonna be, we're gonna show you how to get on your feet, not we're gonna give you money to get on your feet. And she may give you the middle finger. Let me, it's a better than a 50% probability based on my experience. But if she, she may have been just, it's sad, but sometimes folk in these situations will use a baby as a method of manipulation.

Well, that's the thing I would probably caution against with David, just to be really careful, because obviously they love this little boy, and so there's probably a part in them that wants to try to control the situation, because in their minds, we have the means, we understand money, we understand how to take care of this kid, and so I think that they have to really

guard their hearts in this situation because like you said. Yeah, it's so sad. But I think what she's got to have is she's got to have some mentors and some people in her life. That's why I said plug her into a good church. Let's get her started walking on a character path. I didn't let her get, because obviously based on what you said, she's been struggling with

that and you're afraid she's going to fall back off of that. And when she gets that character thing straightened out, then you can show her the mechanics of the money piece, but she's going to have to go to work and she's got to feed three kids and we're going to have to figure out a way to cause her to be able to do that with some community support and that community will help her if she's heading in the right way and you can probably line that up And if and I think you're a wonderful person for investing into this but But just be very careful that you're not being

Manipulated because that sometimes is the only skill someone has And they're very skillful in some cases. I'm not saying that's true about her 100%, but it's just something I would personally be careful with if I was walking into this. I want my eyes wide open. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Royce is in Dallas, Texas. Hi Royce, how are you? Good, how are you Dave?

Better than I deserve. What's up? So, I am a finance, or I guess you say graduate finance student. I'm getting my MBA, my undergraduate. Cool. And so you know how all of them are. Yep I do. They teach you to go out and leverage and so on and so forth. Okay? The financial situation that I'm in is I'm completely debt-free. I have a hundred thousand ish something dollars of invested money in Morgan Stanley and then I have a hundred thousand ish something dollars of invested money in Morgan Stanley and then I have some other stuff there's a 401ks I have $30 or 30,000 in

on-hand cash and I have an opportunity to buy a $50,000 house would you leverage some part of it the renovations would you buy it all cash because my whole thought pattern is if I leave that money working and do parts of it, so like finance 25, cash 25, cash on the restoration, it allows some of my work and some of my money to still be working. Yeah. Well, back when you had common sense before you got your MBA, you would have never done that. Right. So I agree with you on that partly. So my thing is, do you think that there's ever situations where that would come in? Because I know the situation you got in.

No, I do not borrow money. And I do not tell people to borrow money, especially for investment real estate. Pay cash forward or don't do it. Because you increase your risk, and what they don't teach you in the MBA program is to mathematically factor in the risk. They act like with the formulas they teach you, their formulas, the formulas that I learned same ones and getting a finance degree are fairly simplistic in that they do not address the risk issue and the more you borrow the more risk you have we know that and and nowhere in anything you learned in that MBA program does it increase the, does it decrease the returns based on increased risk because of debt.

There's not a formula that they have in that program that shows you that. And yet that is reality. So every time you borrow money, you increase risk. The more money you borrow, the more risk. The less money you borrow, the less risk. And risk does affect return over the scope of time. And so don't do it, don't do it. The borrower is slave to the lender. God is smarter than your MBA professor. This is the Ramsey Show.

Jade Walshaw, Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. The Ramsey Show Question of the Day is brought to you by Y-Refi. If you've made student loan mistakes with zeros on the end, well we're not judging you. We're here to help you and we're saying you need to do something about it. Contact Y-FI if you have a defaulted private student loan. They'll reset the whole thing. It's unbelievable what they can do for you. So go to YREFI. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. Might not be in all states.

All right. Today's question comes from Brody in Maryland. He says, is it unfair for me to feel angry that my wife wants a bigger house? We bought a 1400 square foot house last April. I sold all four of my investment properties that I worked very hard for to completely pay off our debt, including the new house. Our house is a three bedroom, two bath ranch with a backyard on a quiet street. and it's in a good school district. So much sacrifice and saving went into making this happen. Now she wants a bigger house,

even though she said she wanted this particular house before we put the offer in. I don't see how I can make this happen without going into debt again and I will not go back into debt. Oh, this is juicy. Listen, here's the thing. I do think that some people's personalities,

cause you don't talk about any type of pay raise or situation where you guys' lifestyle has changed drastically. But I do think there's some people that the goalpost is constantly moving, right? It's like, if I just get this, I'll be happy. And then they get that thing and they're not happy. Or if I just get this, I'll be content. And then they get that thing and they're not happy. Or if I just get this, I'll be content.

And then it happens and they're not content because things don't make you happy and things don't make you content. I think that they're fun, but they don't fill that void. And truthfully- Yeah, you can buy fun, but you can't buy happiness. Yeah, and you can't buy contentment. And if you're on social media,

what she might be every single day scrolling through and looking at what the influencers are doing and looking at what their friends, you know, their friends houses or if she's spending all night watching HGTV, it is very difficult for some people to kind of go, well, that's them and that's okay. My life is fine. And truly I think that that's what this is. I think she's got a contentment issue. Exactly.

Sidebar, what you stated there, I just saw an article the other day that the more hours you spend on social media, the typical, there's a direct correlation to the more credit card debt you have. Oh really, I'd love to see that, I know there is. And the more overspending you do. Because, you know, I do it, and I have the money, but I'm like looking at some gun thing,

and I'm like, oh I need one looking at some gun thing and I'm like oh I need one of those yeah but if I had stayed off of that you never saw I wouldn't even know when it was there and you know but so I know other people do it and I teach this crap so you know I mean it's like golly if I'm doing it that's okay it's got to be so okay yeah here's what happened Brody you guys need to reset your marriage relationship. This is not about a 1,400 square foot house and it's not about you being angry. You are acting like the daddy and she's acting like daddy's little princess. You know, I

hear that. And daddy sold everything and did everything and sacrificed and worked his fingers to the bone. And what do you get? Bony fingers. And he got a house and he's real proud of the house. And now she walks in and goes, yeah, but there's the wallpaper. Yeah. And so we need to reset this.

And instead let's be two like grownups. So the conversation I'm going to have is, and actually we had it at our house, but in a little different way when we were about your age probably. I'll tell you about ours in a second, but the conversation I'm going to have is, okay, we are going to get aligned on our goals. My goal is not to perpetually make an unhappy person happy I am NOT going to get on that treadmill

We you're a grown woman. I'm a grown man We're gonna sit down together and here's one of mine. Okay, I don't borrow money Period here's another one of mine. I like to provide nice things for my wife. Here's another one of mine. These are what you might say Brody. Okay, and she's saying, well I want a house as nice as my friends. Okay, what can we do to get that? You don't work. You could work. You don't work

much. You could work, you don't work much, you could work more, you could quit coach bagging it and we might save that money towards a house. I mean what are we going to do as two grown-up people to responsibly because I'm all in. I put all my chips in the table, I sold off everything I had to buy this house for us. And what you did though, was you did that without her. She was not aligned to that. She was giving you lip service, but this was not her idea.

It was yours. Yeah. And now you're surprised that she's unhappy of your plan that did not her include her. So this is like, I got to tell you, you know what, about 10 years, I've been married 43 years, about 10 years into marriage, I don't buy Sharon jewelry anymore that she hasn't seen.

Tell us why. Because I picked out ugly crap. I know. According to her. But I spent a lot of my beautiful money on her ugly crap according to her but I spent a lot of my beautiful money on her ugly crap and then she didn't she's like oh I wouldn't know about that and I'm like oh geez well let's just not do that again so I don't mind if Sharon has I mean she's got earrings the size of a headlight but she picked them out mm-hmm

mm-hmm and then she says they're heavy. They're that big. Okay? And I'm like, this ridiculous. I'm like, okay, just get your little earlobes and do some earlobe lifts. Start doing some workouts there in the gym because you picked them out. So see, that's the difference. She, this girl's not involved in this. Well, yeah, you can tell by the language, I sold all of my investment properties. So much sacrifice. Yeah, he's the only one. He feels like he's the only one sacrificing.

You can tell by the language whether. But it's a paternal thing rather than an equal thing. Yeah, yeah, you can hear it. I think we gotta reset and go, we're not doing anywhere from here. We're not making any major decisions without both of us involved. And I learned that after I went broke because I made a lot of decisions that were stupid without talking to my wife. Proverbs 31 says,

Who can find a virtuous wife for her worth is far above Ruby's. The heart of her husband safely trusts her. And here's my favorite part, he will have no lack of gain." And it's not in the Bible, but it might be in one version, like second hesitations. Yeah. Right after no lack of gain, she no longer says, I told you so. Oh, I kind of like being able to… She can't say that anymore. I like being able to say that though.

I know, but you can't say that when you're in on the decision. All you can say is, we together made a dumb butt decision. That's all you can say say that when you're in on the decision. All you can say is we together made a dumb butt decision. That's all you can say from this point forward. And that's it. You can't say you're an idiot. You can't do that anymore because now you have to use plural. Let's change your pronouns.

We are idiots. We did this, right? And so that's what's going on here, dude. You've got to reset this idea you have. Put your little Superman cape up of you're the Popeye and you're the provider and all this stuff and she's just a little woman and you're gonna you're never gonna make scarlet over here happy it's not gonna happen so um she's gonna get on the same page and be

like a grown woman and stuff and then she'll become happy it's a weird balance of power it's a big deal man It's a big deal, man. It's a big deal. This alignment in marriage is one of the things we find all the time in people's ability to get out of debt. They succeed in their careers at a greater rate and their ability to build wealth because they're aligned on sacrificing and they make decisions together. The first time we did that after going broke was we finally saved up a little bit of money and I had $10,000.

Sharon was driving a blue three-tone Astro van. You remember those? Oh, 100%. Completely ugly. The carpet was covered in toddler goldfish from the third kid and it was nasty. This was a bad car. It was an embarrassing vehicle. When they first came out they were alright. Well this was not first come out and she's like I need a better car. We need to move up to a suburban and I had $10,000 or $15,000 saved at the company.

I was getting ready to do this investment. We were going to buy this thing and I was going to make a hundred thousand with this fifteen thousand down here and she's like, uh, we need to do a car. And you know what? We did both, but we did the car first and then we did the company. And it turns out now all these years later, it was okay. But in the the moment aligning on that with two grownups was a big deal, a big deal. This is the Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth,

do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Jade Wachow, Ramsey personality number one bestselling author is my co-host today as we answer your questions about life and money. The phone number is 888-825-5225. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thanks for joining us. Daniel is in Kansas City.

Hey Daniel, how are you? I've been better Dave, your host. Thanks for joining us. Daniel is in Kansas City. Hey Daniel, how are you? I've been better, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve, sir. What's up in your world? My wife is about to pass away and she hid debt from me. Oh my. That I didn't know that she had pre-targeting married five years ago. Wow. I'm so sorry. So what is her illness? She has cirrhosis of the liver and it's not working and she doesn't qualify for a transplant and then it's starting to affect her other organs and she's

kind of going into full shutdown. So you've been married five years? Yes sir. I'm so sorry. How old is she? She's 44. Oh my goodness. How old are you? I'm 52. Okay. Okay, and you opened this with she's hidden debt from you during the five years that you were married, so she ran up debt in her name? She ran up debt in her name pre-targeting married back when she was in college. This is the second marriage for both of us. I had one daughter with her, technically a stepdaughter, but I consider her my daughter, totally. And was saving money for her to go to college.

And we were, I thought we were, anyway, debt free, except for our house. So the debt was rung up before you guys got married, you just didn't know about it. I did not know about it. And how much debt? Her parents said she ran up $50,000, but I've only received a bill for $15,000.

And it's on what kind of debt? Student loan debt. Federally insured? I don't know. I just received it the other day. It's actually from a bill collection agency. I don't have it in front of me. I apologize.

Is it only, you might not know this, is it only in her name or did her parents sign for it too? No, it's only in her name. Her parents offered to pay for her to go to school as long as she showed them the grades. And evidently she took the money, was in school for a hot minute, and I didn't know this

because she's hidden a bunch of stuff from me and used the money to go travel. He went to Europe and blew the money. All right. Well, let's talk through a couple of possibilities from a tactical standpoint. I'm sorry, Daniel. I know your heart's broken in about three different places. The deception, the loss, the illness, everything that's going on here that's just overwhelming. And all of that's just a tragedy, I'm so sorry. Student loan debt that is federally insured is forgiven when someone passes away. Okay. So if this is a federal student loan debt, Okay. So if this is a federal student loan debt, there's no issue. When she passes away, you will, or her parents for that matter, can send them a copy of the death

certificate and the student loan just evaporates. It's that simple. And don't pay it. Okay. Okay, that's probably what we're dealing with. Okay, let's go another route in case that's not it. Let's pretend this is private student loan debt that she borrowed it from the university rather than through FAFSA and all that, right? I'm sorry? I believe she did because her parents income was too high for her to get faster. Well this is student, it could still, there's not an income limit on getting a federally insured student loan. Okay.

I'm sorry. I'm thinking this is a federally insured student loan. If it's not, let's discuss that. So the, do you own anything jointly with her? And both of your names on it? The only thing with both our names on it is one car. Okay. Her credit, her credit from her previous marriage was she's had two bankruptcies that she never told me about because I had money

issues in my first marriage and got that all paid off and I got your book the total money makeover and followed that to get out of debt and to do a lot of mountain of deception here okay all right let's pretend let's pretend that this is not federally insured I would would have you con- if it's not a federally insured student loan that is forgiven upon death, then I would have you contact an attorney there in Kansas City on probate law in Kansas. In most states, when someone passes away, what they own stands good for what they owe and nothing else does. Just because you're married to her in most states does not mean you're liable for her debts that have her name on it. And so the car is hers, a portion of it,

and if the car has any value Above what is owed that might be sold and paid towards this debt But other than that you don't have anything that is she doesn't own anything it doesn't sound like No, sir. She does not okay so let's pretend that she were single and she had a car and that was all and she owed more on the car than it was worth and you pass away with credit card debt and student loan debt. There's no assets to pay the debts. Those creditors get nothing when that person passes away with nothing.

Your kids aren't responsible, your parents aren't responsible, and in most states your husband is not responsible unless, especially in a situation like this where the debt occurred prior to the marriage. Yeah, absolutely. So I'm not an attorney in Kansas, I'm not an attorney, but I'm not attorney in Kansas for sure, so I'd want you to check that out. You won't have to bother and do that if you can discover that these student loans are federally insured and I'm giving you a high probability they are. If they're federally insured, it's no issue at all.

You got no issue. You're not liable, period. No one's liable. No one pays anything. If someone becomes permanently disabled or passes away with a federally insured student loan, it's forgiven, it's gone. It's gone. Okay.

So you're okay, other than your broken heart. Okay. And your broken heart from losing your wife and to liver cirrhosis, cirrhosis of the liver, and your broken heart from all the deception that's gone on. Yeah. And both are legitimate pain, brother. I'm sorry you're facing all this. He's got to get in counseling and deal with that because he's got a lot going on.

He's got the loss. But then it's tough to lose someone that you're angry at or frustrated at for something that's gone on, right? And so I would definitely. Obviously she had a pattern of this in her life. And now it's coming to a tragic conclusion. So tough. Wow. Ouch.

Ouch. This is the Ramsey Show. Jade Walsh, Ramsey Personalities, my cohost. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Open phones here on the Ramsey Show. Phone number is 828-825-5225. Emily is in Washington, D.C. Hi, Emily. How are you? Hi, Dave. Thank you so much for taking my call today. Sure. What's up?

We just have a quick question. My husband and I are wondering if we are being selfish with a family financial decision that we're making, and I'm going to preface it by saying that we are in total agreement on this and he would be the one to have a conversation with his family. So the overall situation is that he has, um, many siblings. Um, and we try to get together and go on vacations or just, um, have family gatherings fairly often. However,

his youngest sister does have a very different financial situation than the rest of us have. So we've covered her expenses and time to get together and particularly going on vacation. Usually not a big deal. It's just a few hundred extra bucks. Um, however, however, um, there has kind of been an expectation to pay and there is conversation around going overseas, um, to where they are from originally, where the family is from originally for a bigger trip in 2025,

which would, if we covered her expenses, it would cost us thousands of dollars. That's just not in our budget. It's not something we can do. It would already be kind of at the top of our budget to begin with. But in kind of expressing this decision, not being able to cover her, her husband and her five kids, it's really ripping apart our family

because we're being told we're being selfish by not helping her out Wait, sorry. It's her husband and her five kids And yes, and who's telling you you're selfish? The other siblings and how much of it were they covering? They were we've always kind of split things fairly equally and so if we split it three ways It would still be a few thousand dollars for all of us. Can I ask why? Can I ask why? Why what's the situation that everybody is floating them?

Yeah, that's a great question. Um, so some of it I'm I would say lifestyle choices just in the fact that they live in a small town, her husband doesn't have a big income and then she's chosen to stay home and homeschool the kids have a bigger family. The more you tell me, the more I'm laughing internally. Like the more you tell me about this, the more I'm realizing how ridiculous this expectation is. And it... Yeah, that's...

There's no obligation. Anything that you've done before, you kind of did set up maybe an expectation, but you did that out of the kindness of your heart, as it sounds like the other siblings did. But just because someone is kind and decide that they want to give one time doesn't mean that they're obligated to give every time and at the whatever limit that other person decides. Right? If I were you, I would have no, when I tell you I would lose zero sleep over saying, I'm not going to fund this. It's too expensive. Period. And you don't have to give a bunch of reasons. Just, Hey, it was fun for us to be able to

do that before with this trip. We're not going to be able to help out and by the way probably going forward you know we've decided that the faucet has turned off at this point. Especially with the way you folk have reacted yeah. Yeah no gratefulness. Yeah. Gratitude turned into entitlement and so you know the the issues is what you're discovering and it's sad and I've run of this everybody's run into this, Henry Cloud talks about this in his classic book, Boundaries, that when you, someone doesn't respect your boundaries, it means they feel entitled

to walk in your yard, to take your money, to, they feel entitled to your money. And then when you set a boundary with a boundaryless person, roughly 100% of the time it pisses them off. Almost every time, right? And so once you say you can't play in the yard, it's my yard and you can't come over here, there's a fence here, you should stay on your side of the fence. You know, that's a boundary, in other words. Then the people who have gotten used to treating

your yard like it's their yard, they go, oh, but we like playing in your yard. And so, no, you can't play in my checkbook anymore. There's not room for both of us, and so I'm gonna declare it mine and I'm gonna close the gate. The gate was open and now the gate's closed. And since you're bitching about it, I'm gonna leave the gate closed forever. That kind of

goes there too. So that's the way, I mean, and as far as the other siblings whining about it, it falls under the category of NUNYA. NUNYA business. Go kick rocks, exactly. And here's the thing, I thought you were going to lay out some hardship or something that was kind of outside the box, but truly it's choices. Yeah, choices. And so you chose not to be able to afford to go on this international vacation with your five children. Which by the way, most people, I never even saw the ocean till I was a teenager. So I grew up in Tennessee. So I mean, come on.

I mean, it's like, that's what people that don't have money do. You know, so you don't get to do stuff that people with money get to do. It's how that works. And so, gosh, I'm sorry though. I'm sorry it's bringing a pain to y'all. And I wish I had something other than smart aleck things

to say that would actually make this go away because it won't go away. And so you're just going to have to smile and say, gosh, I'm so sorry y'all feel that way. I love y'all, but this is our decision. And you don't have to, I would not justify it. I wouldn't talk about the decisions that they need to make different. I wouldn't talk about the decisions that they need to make different.

I wouldn't talk about enabling. I wouldn't talk about entitlement or boundaries. I would just say, this is our decision. We love y'all. And gosh, I hope it doesn't, I hope you don't permanently cut us off, but if you do, then that's what you'll have to do. And gosh, I sure hope not, but we love y'all and no.

The good news is you and your spouse are on the same page about this. That's the only way and you already prefaced it with he's gonna handle his own family. Bless his heart so yeah it's a it's a thing man it's a thing so. Oh wow yeah. I've had some of these conversations I mean when we went broke and lost everything so Sharon has five brothers and sisters and there's 13 grandkids, okay, of which Daniel is the youngest, okay, so Rachel's one of the youngest, in other words, and so that family, they've all done very well and they're wonderful people and everybody gave everybody something at Christmas. Well, I completely screwed that up because I went broke and

I didn't have the money to give everybody everybody something. Yes. And so we were there at Thanksgiving and they're talking about Christmas and I said guys I'm sorry I got bad news. We just can't do that. We just went bankrupt. We don't have any money and so we're gonna have to draw names. And my suggestion also is the children under 12 get gifts from other people, but everybody else is treated as an adult and gets one gift from another adult, and we all just draw names.

And no, to their credit, I'm bragging on my wife's family. They all said, that's a really good idea, because I think this other one sucked. It was getting out of control. And I'm glad you brought it up. But I was kind of, Sharon's like, they're not gonna like that. And I said, I know they're generous, sweet people,

they're not gonna like it, but we don't have any money. So we can't play anymore. We can't pay the ticket to play in this, we can't get into this place anymore, we can't pay the ticket. And so this is the only thing we can do. And so we love y'all. But instead they were all like, well, thank God somebody else said that. So that family, that was 30 years ago. We've drawn names ever since for 30 years now. So sometimes it's a good result, but it wasn't

someone that felt entitled in that conversation. Instead of mature, good, solid people who respected the pain that we were in at the time and how embarrassing it was for us to have to say that out loud and all of that. If that means you imagine sitting at your in-laws Thanksgiving dinner and announcing. I have been there and my story didn't go as well, Dave. Oh no. Oh no. You know. You caused trouble with the in-laws, did you, Jade? You know, I said maybe we give names.

Who knew, Sam? Maybe we draw names. I didn't know she was that way. I wouldn't have known it. All right, you know. There you go. Well, here's the thing. We're still drawing names to this day, so.

Oh, even though. There was some kicking and screaming to begin with, but. It's okay, it's all good now. It's a good thing. Well, you know the thing, we're still drawing names to this day. So even though there was some kicking and screaming to begin with, but it's okay. It's a good thing. It's a good thing. Well, you know how I feel adults don't need to buy other adults gifts. I heard you talk. I heard Rachel and George talking about you the other day on their show saying that I like that.

So there we go. It's your own blender. Learn to get your own blender. And dirty. This is the Ramsey show. Blender and Gertie. This is the Ramsey Show. Jade Walshaw, Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Hayden is in Nashville. Hi Hayden, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, thanks so much for taking my call, appreciate it. I appreciate everything you do. Thank you. So basically I'm calling

about my mom. I'm very concerned for her. She has a bad track record for being financially smart and recently she just got into a relationship that's only been about six months and he has a lot of money so she thinks that she wants to quit her job and live off of his money and then sell her house and then that's her retirement. So I just don't really know like how to give her advice and she has asked me for advice. She did ask. Interesting. She did ask. Because the one thing that changes the whole discussion is the marriage date. When are they

getting married? That's exactly my point as well. Like I'm telling her you need to get married before you decide to quit your job or decide to move in with him like but is there a deal if you quit your job and move in with somebody and sell your house that's rich that's called a sugar daddy we have a name for that guy he's a really i don't care he's a sugar daddy he might be a nice one but that's what he is no No, you don't do that, mom. How did you get to be mom and not know that? Trust me, I don't know. So what have you said to her so far about it? What have you told her so far? He wants to take care of her and he supports her in any decision she wants to do. If she doesn't

want to work anymore, that's okay. She'll, you'll pay for, you know, all the bills and she wants to sell her car. She also has a, she has 20,000 on her car right now. Um, 8,000 in credit cards. You know, she's not good with her money. And I'm saying, what have you told her about this? Have you told her anything? Oh, I told her, I told her that one, she needs to get married if she wants to, you know, rely on his income. Did you tell her why? Oh yeah, for sure. And it's hard for her to listen to me because like I'm not married. So. Ah, okay. Another strand. Well, it's you're her kid. That's strand one. And that's another thing too. Yes. And then you've not been in the type of relationship that she's been in, at least that's the way she's going to view it, which is true.

So you're fighting again, like you're fighting a current 100%. Let me tell you what, if you ask your mom's dad, he's probably gone, right? Yeah. Yeah. But if we were to ask him, they didn't know that's probably not a good example. If we were to ask her uncle, he would have said, no, I'll bonk him on the head. No. Right.

Or I mean, even if you flip the script and put yourself in that situation, although I would love to think that she would tell you to do the opposite, but she might tell you to do the same thing that she's doing. So. She would smell that one out. I don't, you know, your question is how to convince her of what all three of us know that this is a bad idea okay yeah so I guess the thing is this okay here's

the thing anytime mom you're making a great huge decision and there's a series of great huge decisions you're making here. You have to play out the decision, is it a happy, happy decision? Now the way that works is this, you're happy if this works and you're still happy if this doesn't work. If it all works and you just play house and the sugar daddy takes care of you, it worked, you're happy. That's your plan. But what happens if he dumps you in the street for a 10 year younger version, trades you in on a new model mom.

Uh, cause he can do that pretty easily here by waving the exact same carrot he waved in front of you. Um, and be sugar daddy to somebody else. So when he puts you in the street with no house, no car and no job, where are you gonna be? So you don't make big decisions like this mom when one of the possible outcomes is devastation. Bad risk management, bad lack of wisdom. Like a wisdom.

And I'm also just not in a position financially to help her. She's asked me in the past for money. That doesn't enter into how stupid this is. Right. Whether you give her money or not doesn't mean this is smart. And you're going to have to accept the fact that she's going to do, you could lay out the best argument in the world. Like perfectly just eloquent, everything makes sense and she could still go and make this

choice and it's going to be bad for her. And you're going to have to just learn how to live with that and accept the fact that she's a grown woman and she's making a bad mistake and there's nothing, in many ways there's nothing you can do about it. And that's, I think that that's the hardest part of being in a relationship with anyone that you really care about is they get to choose. Is there anyone in her life that's wise that she trusts? Her brother. Have him call her and scream at her I'm serious. He really likes the guy so I haven't seen him like

I said I asked if he was wise If he's wise he doesn't think this is a good idea. I'm not saying the guy's a horrible guy I'm saying this a horrible deal for your mom without put a ring on it, buddy Well, the guy probably thinks if this is a I'm gonna say an air quotes a good guy This guy probably thinks he's offering your mom the world So maybe somebody needs to get in his ear and make him see hey We we like you, we think that you're probably trying to take care

of our mom, but can you do this the right way? Because this way, the way that you're doing it now makes us nervous because if for some reason it doesn't work out, she's on her butt, right? So maybe that's the way to go at this is if there's somebody that has the right relationship to talk to him, if he is really the good guy that you guys say he is,

that should give him a light bulb moment to go, oh, I get it. Yeah. Right. Put a ring on it, buddy. I think my mom just needs a reality check, too. The problem is she's not looked at the downside. Anytime you're making a big decision,

you have to look at the downside. What's the possible negative outcome from this? And it'll keep you from doing some stupid butt stuff if you don't only consider sunshine, rainbows, and skittles. You know, it doesn't always turn out sunshine, rainbows, and skittles. Especially when the deal is set up poorly from the start, you're kinda asking for it.

You're asking to have your butt kicked. Life's gonna come along and go, you was stupid, here's your butt kicking. Ready, here you go. And we all get to pay some stupid tax We've all done some stupid butt stuff, and she's signing up for one here. This is a trip. It's gonna be harsh Please don't do this lady. Please don't do this put a ring on it or don't do it. It's pretty simple Cuz I gotta tell you it changes the chemistry

Well, I was gonna say there's no like balance of power in this relationship. She sells everything she has. There's no way in the world she could live in a house probably that that he lives in on her. You know what I'm saying? She has no ability to keep up life. We need to bring back some of the vernacular from bygone eras. Let me hear it. A kept woman. You ever heard that one? Yes, that's very, I don't want to say the word old, but.

That's ancient. Yeah, ancient. That's a kept woman. She's being kept. Yeah. For her use. Yes. Ooh.

Yeah, I don't like it. Can I give you a little chill? Give me a little chill. I don't like it. My dad's stuff, my grandpa's stuff gets angry right then. So I just can't, put a ring on it. Michael is in Charlotte. Hey Michael, what's up?

Hey, I'm good. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. How can I help? I had a question. My wife and I are in the process of buying a house. We were pre-approved and our loan officer told us she doesn't advise 20% down payment or in North Carolina.

She says the appreciation rate in North Carolina. I don't advise you using this loan officer. She's stupid. Yeah, I figured you would say something along those lines. I have a hard time understanding how that works out. Well, her thing is that borrowed money has has no risk so borrow all you can my thing is I've met people who are up to their eyeballs in a mortgage and can't get out they're stuck because of some idiot loan officer like this by the way she gets paid on what what's her

percentage on the loan amount conflict of interest in this advice hello hey you need more money if you don't put down so much he needs to go to our real estate hub and find some folks who are gonna actually help him go to Ramsey solutions comm slash real estate there it is that's easy a whole bunch of stuff there that'll help you Michael yeah but she's getting paid on that you do need a loan officer this one was not smart this is the ramsey show jay washaw ramsey personality is my co-host today she is off there the book money is not a math problem and best seller from ramsey press so uh let's do some finance 101

all right a couple of things the first thing they teach you in finance class, no risk virtually, but they pay you almost nothing. Fair enough. Right? If you move it around a little bit, mess with a little bit, you could put it in a good high yield savings account, which we'll sidebar on that for a second. We were talking about this offer a little bit we'll come back into my risk return ratio in a minute but we'll just turn left for a second and park there a high

yield savings account is exactly what it says it is it is a savings account at a bank that pays a better rate ding ding. Okay. A CD, a certificate of deposit is a savings account at a bank. And they give you a certificate. Yes. And you have to... Like perfect attendance. You remember that one? Yeah. But you can't touch that one. Yeah, but you can touch it, but you won't get all of the high yield. Okay. The savings accounts fully liquid pays more than CWs do right now. CDs have just about been run out of town by the sheriff. Ten years ago, we didn't call them high yield savings accounts at the bank. We had a savings account at the bank that the bank labeled wrong, but they did it for

marketing reasons. The bank called it a money market account at the bank. It was a savings account at the bank that paid a higher rate like a high-yield savings account does. Same exact thing. The savings account that paid a better rate that mimicked real money markets. But the bank did not sell

money markets. They had a savings account called a money market account that had an interest rate that was similar to a real money market account. A real money market account was only available through and still is only available through something like a mutual fund company. So you could go to Fidelity or American funds or whatever and open an actual

money market account. Now you can have money market accounts with those that have check writing privileges, uh, even a debit card attached to them and those kinds of things. But the high yield savings account has, uh, as a marketing methodology, it's a better marketing actually than money market because it says, I'm gonna give you more money. Yeah, you hear it. High yield.

It says, I'm gonna hire interest savings account. That's what it says. It is what it says it is actually. And the money market account was just a misnomer. But it was all for marketing. It's all banks selling their wares. So high yield savings account, simple savings account, little better interest rate, but almost no risk.

So, back to the risk-return ratio. If you want to double your money, you know, you're pretty much going to leave investing and go to gambling or speculating. Now some people call speculating investing but it's really not. Speculating is where I want a short quick return on my money. That's speculating. Day trading stocks is not investing. That's buying and selling stocks on a daily basis or weekly basis. That is speculating. When you build a when a builder, a home builder builds a home that does not have a buyer, they called spec houses, speculating. They're speculating. They're building an unsold

piece of inventory they hope to sell now. They're not investing for 10 years when they build that house. Praise, they pray they're not investing for 10 years when they build that house. Praise they pray they're not investing for 10 years. They hope you're going to buy the house when you, so that's why they're called spec houses. They're speculating. The builders are speculating. That's not investing. It's right next to gambling and you can make a lot better money speculating, but you're taking the ultimate high risk. It's, it's kind of an all or nothing

play usually. It's why I don't buy commodities like gold and wheat futures or whatever because it's all speculating. It's short term plays with a gain. It's why we don't do Bitcoin. It's a short term play with a potential gain and it's got a no track record. The only track record it has is filled with fraud and go to jail do not pass go, right? And so it's just a mess. So the whole the whole marketplace is high ultra high risk speculating. It's not even investing. But along the spectrum of investing the more risk take, the more money you ought to make. So, if you put money in mutual funds, I've got a mutual fund that opened in 1934. It has had like, in that 80 or 90 years, it's had like, I don't know, 10 years it lost money.

Out of 80 or 90 years or something like that. Not consecutive. Not consecutive years, but in the entire time. Right. 10 different individual times. Individual years. Never back-to-back, not a single back-to-back. And they're always major occurrences, 9-11, something crazy. Since 1934, okay? And it's average 12.2% since 1934, okay? Now if I can make that investment by simply pushing enter on my computer, All I gotta do is push a button.

There's no, I don't have any effort to go with it. Then if you're gonna do, if you're gonna flip houses, that's speculating, alright? You're hoping to make a quick buck. You, dad gum better will make more than 12% on your money. You oughta make 20%, at least, oughta be your margin. It oughta be more, but at least a minimum of 20%. Otherwise, you're taking too much risk versus the 12 you could make with no, with a 1934 historical track record, okay? Yeah.

You gotta, the risk ratio on that is way different. And where does the effort play into it too? Yeah and effort and the effort plays into it and the worry because all speculating involves jumping in and out and involves a level of fretting over it and wringing your hands over it. Mental calories. Mental calories burning. Investing even in high-risk things doesn't involve the same level of calorie burn that speculating does. But where you guys mess up sometimes out there in the tick-tock land of finance is they confuse speculating with investing. Investing is always long-term. Speculating is a quick gain, but a much higher risk gain at best and then

past that is actual gambling. I mean when you're specing on a house, flipping a house or you're speculating even on Bitcoin, it is not the same as playing the roulette wheel. It's less risk than the roulette wheel. Cause you know, you're gonna walk away from Vegas, the house wins, 100%, okay? House wins. Bellagio did not put those light fixtures in there. You know, they did not put those $10 million light fixtures

in there with anybody's money but yours, if you were in Bellagio, okay? I mean, Vegas is built on the back of losers. People who lose money, that's what I mean. And that's how the math works. So I'm not saying you're physically, personally a loser, I'm saying you lost your money there. You're a loser, so yeah, you lost your money.

So that's it. But that's the spectrum, okay? You go all the way from savings account with no risk, no effort, no calorie burn. To the roulette wheel. All burn. So the roulette wheel. All the way to the roulette wheel. And the more risk you take, you should make more money. If you're not, you're missing on the very basic tenant of finance 101 risk,

return ratio, more risk should always equal more return. If it doesn't, well, that's dumb. Don't do that. So our last caller doing the flips, she needs to be making 20%. And it didn't seem like she was. She don't know. She might be. She might have made 30%. She didn't know. That's true. She didn't know. But you got to know, number one. And then number two, you need to be making that. I mean a good residential builder is gonna make 20 plus percent most of the time, depending on what type of property they're doing if they're doing specs And if you're not you're setting yourself up for problems because you're gonna hit these slow times when it takes a little while to sell a

Speculative piece of real estate you are speculating. You are a speculator. Look it up in the dictionary So is this what we can expect from your? Investing yeah, I might go on the same rent. I might put it in there and the investment live stream speculator. Look it up in the dictionary. So is this what we can expect from your investing? Yeah, I might go on the same rent. I might put it in there. In the investment live stream investment event. Yeah. I'm going to do that. What is it? May 21, 22. I'm doing two hours each night, two hours of it'll be on real estate. I'm going to go a whole lot deeper in the real estate for sure.

And I'll, but I'll probably put this rant in there because I've kind of been noodling on it lately. I think it's a problem that people misidentify these things and they call speculating investing when it's not. This is the Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show where we help people do work that they love, build wealth, and create actual amazing relationships. Thank you for joining us America. Jade Washoff, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. Thanks for hanging out with us. The phone number is

triple eight eight two five five two two five. Dave is in Seattle. Hi Dave, how are you? Pretty good, how's yourself going? Long story short, unfortunately my mother passed away and my uncle has a 50% stake in her house. And he came with me with an offer to cash me out, but it was about a couple hundred thousand dollars low, lower than what market analysis reports and multiple realtors that I've talked to have said that place is worth.

And I don't know how to give him the tough you know the tough answer or ask them just hey this seems really low without burning a family bridge. So I'm just having a tough time with that one. So if you go back to your uncle and say sure I'll be happy to sell you but I'll sell it to you at just a little bit below market value, which is a whole lot more than you're offering. You think he's gonna get mad and run away mad. Essentially, yeah. And then the house would go on the market. It was my grandfather's house. Okay, put it on the market. Years ago to where?

Put it on the market. I'm trying not to burn a family bridge. I know, you didn't burn a bridge. If he acts like that, would you do that? He burned the bridge. He burned the market. I'm trying not to burn a family bridge. I know you didn't burn a bridge. If he acts like that, he burned the bridge. You can't choose who burns bridges except you. But you're not burning a bridge. You didn't say go to hell. You said I want a price. Yeah. If he gets mad, he's the one burning a bridge. You can't control him, but we're also not gonna be scared of his reaction by $200,000.

Especially if you have it printed out and you can show them, say, hey, I did a little research, here's market value. If you can show me what you're looking at and make it more of a conversation rather than some sort of a... I'll be happy to sell it to you at a little bit of a discount but not not this steep and if you don't want to do that it's okay let's just put on the

market and well you know we'll just both get our money out of it yeah because I guess the other kind of an issue is he does live at the property to do or he would have to because he owns 50% of it you would have to move problem You know, it's not your problem Okay, so let's walk back to how old are you? 25 okay, and how long ago did your mom pass? About five years ago. Oh my god. It's been going on a long time Yeah, and he's been sitting there. Has he been paying you rent?

No, she's living in the house rent free for five years. Yeah, the house is paid for. Yeah, I know, but he's not paying any rent for your half. No. You think that's fair? Well, do you think that's fair? Well, do you think that's fair? That you take your 20 year old nephew whose mother just died and don't give him anything for his half of the asset. I think your uncle's a skunk. Yeah, I don't care.

If I have a 20 year old nephew and his mom just died, my job is to take care of him, not pee on him. Yeah. Right? No. Yeah. Hello son. just died at my job is to take care of him not pee on him yeah right no yeah hello son that's seriously so you know and and you're you're scared of this guy I was just about to say that this guy's a lot this guy's a problem all right now what's the house worth honey everybody said nine hundred on the low end okay so let's pretend it's worth nine hundred It has no debt on it, right? Yeah. So if you sell it, you guys are going to spend somewhere around 10% of that in selling

expenses. So it's going to cost you close to 100 in selling expenses. So you're probably going to net 800. So your half is worth somewhere around 400 if you all sell it. Yes. What did he offer you? He offered me 320 or 360. Okay that's not bad. Alright. Okay you said it was hundreds of thousands off it's not. Your half after selling expenses if you all sold the house is worth some I mean the things worth 800,000 right after expenses okay it's worth 900 if we take we take 10% 12% of expense offer expenses and negotiation off of appraised value it's not going to be that far off you know if you pay a 6% commission as an example if you had other miscellaneous expenses you

negotiate a little bit you pick up the title policy for the buyer whatever and your net profit on this property is gonna be somewhere in the 800 range your house worth somewhere around 400 he offered you 360 yeah take it that's not bad all righty you where did you get that you were getting a hundred thousand or two hundred thousand less than it was worth just talking with people trying to know how did you get there I mean the numbers you gave me do you see how I just did what I did yeah seeing how you're doing that yeah unless you didn't think you were gonna have any expenses selling the property expenses yeah but even then

yeah it's only fifty thousand dollars is your half of that. Yeah. Half of 900 is 450 and he offered you 360 so you thought that hundred thousand was what was off. Well because the realtor is on the low end of said 900 to where the house next door similar square footed sold for 1.1 for the low end is 900 or it just seems a little off. Wait a minute the realtors are off? Well the numbers are a little low at 360 this seems like. Well no they're $40,000 low if the house is worth 900. He's saying it could be you're saying what you're saying is based on comps it might be worth more is that what you're trying to say?

No, you just told me it's worth 900 and then you changed that. So which number are you going with that is the value, son? On the low end is 900. The high end would be 1.1. Okay, so say 1 million. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You are not, you don't get to have a 20% range in value on a million dollar house. You need to figure out what the house is worth

Okay. All right. If you want to be fair Exactly fair. Here's what I tell you to do order an appraisal Pay 500 bucks for an appraisal Find out exactly what the house is worth and quit talking about ranges of a hundred to one point two that that's not even Several people in that conversation don't know what they're talking about ranges of 100 to 1.2. That's not even, several people in that conversation don't know what they're talking about. The thing's worth something in there, but that's not a range that you don't, if you're getting ready to put a house on the market,

you don't go, it's worth somewhere between 900 and 1.2. That you got, we got comps, this thing's worth 1.15, and we're gonna put it on the market at 1.2 and hope. You know, you figure out what it's actually worth. So let's get an actual appraisal or a very, very professionally done high quality realtor doing a comparative market analysis, either one, then take 88% of that number. You follow me? 12% for expenses, 88% of that appraisal number divided by two and that is what your

half is worth. And if you do that and the appraisal is $900, the $360 offer is not a bad offer. And I'll get up off your uncle then. That's what I would do. This is the Ramsey Show. Jay Duashaw, Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us America. Open phones at 828-825-5225. Angie's in Salt Lake City, Utah. Hi Angie, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi Ramsey, thank you so much for answering my call. Sure.

I'm 33 years old. I just graduated from grad school last month. I decided to embark on this journey of school January 2022. I moved away from home Florida to Salt Lake City to pursue the sport of ice skating while I changed my grad school program. I had the opportunity to just go to school and train while out there. I was not working. Early throughout the year my father passed away and it shook my entire world. I felt some, he left some inheritance which helped

me live through and continue my journey out there and train. My lease is now up and I didn't meet the goals or finish the projects I had in mind. Now I'm stuck whether I should continue out here or move back to my parents home and recalibrate. Did you get the degree? Did you get the degree? I did. In what? In my master's in business administration. So why don't you go get a job? job I Am I'm in the process of doing that right now. It's taking some time. Why and People are hiring everywhere Say that again people are hiring everywhere. You've got an MBA for God's sakes. I know I'm in the process of that

Why is it a process you should get a job? Right now I am interviewing exactly good i mean to be a right now where you interview uh... goldman right now but my fact no i'm talking about what cities uh... in sallic city and florida miami florida okay good and one of the one of those positions pay right now of the in sall Salt Lake City the cost is a lot lower so they're not going more than 90

and I see a 33 year old full-grown woman that's going to make ninety thousand dollars a year why would you even consider living with your mommy I know they just they came they are like listen you have two hundred thousand dollars in student debt, like if you just want to come and recalibrate, but I just don't. I think you've recalibrated enough.

Yeah, yeah. Yes, my other option is whether to continue in Utah or most back to Florida due to the job market. You go wherever the job goes Whoever is gonna pay you the most money Go get you some money and a life girl. It's time. Yes. It's time. Yeah You can't you can't you can't Bob and weave and duck anymore. You get to face the whole thing now You can do it. I

Can do it you can you can do it. I Hear someone that's more capable than she thinks she is. Thank you. It hasn't been easy past years. Um, that I'm great for the opportunity. Just thought that, you know, if I do stay out in Salt Lake City, um, and having the opportunity to, instead of paying rent, come back and-

No, it's not an opportunity. Hey, what's wrong with- You're hiding because you're scared. What's messing with your confidence? What's messing with your confidence right now? Yeah, really. My confidence is the fact that I haven't defined the income yet. I'm still in that process but I know I'll get through. I wouldn't even put living with mommy on the table hon. I

want you to go out there and lift some things and grow your back muscles so you got a strong back. Okay. You can do this. You can do this. But you've had different things come at you and I don't think, Jade and I know the whole story. I think there's a whole bunch of stuff back there. And then the thing with your dad, and then you've been over there in Salt Lake City, and then you graduated and you went, oh crap, I've really got to go do this now. Yeah. Yeah, that's what happened. And you do really got to go do this now. And's the thing you really can go do this getting an MBA is not an easy task You just accomplished a big goal

Make a little mark on your little self-report card that says I just did a big thing Thank you, thank you. I forget most of the time due to the fact that I do, I hate loans, I hate debt. So it's just like having that debt under my name is just like, when am I going to finally pay it off if I keep calling it off? You're going to pay it off when you get a big old job and you work like a crazy girl and you get the stuff paid off. And let's reframe how we're viewing this debt. Like if you look at a pile of debt and all you feel is fearfulness and, oh my gosh, I did this and da da da da, you've got to really refuel

that and go and reframe that in your mind and say this has got to be the fuel for the fire. Like I've got two hundred thousand dollars of debt, I can't let it paralyze me, I've got to like lean into it and go forward because if you keep having that kind of off balance and I'm scared of it feeling you're gonna just make off balance and I'm scared of it feeling you're gonna just make minimum payments and find ways to put it off and put it off before you know what you look up and it's a bigger pile. So really let this feeling you getting those notices this debt is due let that fuel it. Do you understand what I'm saying? That's fueling your job search, that's fueling you moving to wherever ever the best job is, that's fueling you pouring as many payments and as much money into this as

possible to get it paid off quickly. Does that make sense? That makes sense 100%. I don't want you running home. If you're my daughter, my daughter's not a lot younger than you, I would tell you the best thing you can do is strengthen your wings by flying. And you're capable of flying. You're capable of soaring. You've proven that by getting your MBA. Take some confidence from that. Now go get a position.

Get settled. Then go get a better position. Get settled. Then go get a better position. Get settled. And when you call me back, you're making $152,000 a year. And you paid all this off. And you know back you're making a hundred fifty two hundred thousand dollars a year and you paid all this off and you know you're 38 years old and you've slayed this dragon

and you can do it you can do it do not try to hide anymore it's not serving you well go get them ronald is in naples florida hey ronald what's up hey how's going to think for having me on the show how can i help yeah i just had some just some advice questions like i feel like i'm on the right track but i just wanted to hear from somebody of stature you know other than my dad news even investor you've got the mindset he's a business owner but

you know how hard it is for a uh... for a and a son to hear something from their father and take it 100% to our, um, especially about money and, uh, business decisions. But, um, well, I recently just had, um, my son, my very first son. Um, he just turned one a couple of months ago and I'm just trying to build a, He just turned one a couple of months ago and I'm just trying to build a basically a package for him, you know, for when he turns my age, he's got that cushion or that pillow behind him. I don't want to necessarily turn them into like, you know, waiting around for dad to die so I get my money because that's the way I was raised.

I had a cushion but I still, you know, I work a full-time job. I work 50, 60, 70, 80 hours a week sometimes to accomplish my goals. But I just want to, I want to see if I'm on the right direction. I think you need to teach your son just like your dad did you. You teach him to work. Definitely. He instilled a lot of good core values in me. Good. I've had the same conversations with my dad. I spoke to him two days ago and he said, you know, I'm proud of what you're doing and you're going in the right direction. I just want to make sure I'm not missing any steps for my son. A big old pile of money is not what a grown young man needs.

They need work ethic, integrity, honor, dignity. Absolutely. You instill those things in them, then they won't need money. They won work ethic, integrity, honor, dignity. You instill those things in them then they won't need money. They won't need money. And if you leave them money then they'll take that money and do wonderful things with it if they have those character qualities. That's where legacy comes from. Absolutely, yeah. And so much of that's gonna be them watching you do those things. Yeah, it's hard to show them things like that though, because a five-year-old, eight-year-old kid's

not gonna understand sitting and looking at a computer. Yeah, they do. They catch everything. Kids catch and absorb everything. You would be shocked and amazed. More is caught than taught. Oh, it is my first time. My friends got kids, but this is my first time. My friends got kids but this is my first time.

Hey I'm gonna send you, Rachel and I did a book together called Smart Money Smart Kids. How to teach kids how to handle money and how to work and how to give and how to save and how to spend and it was a number one best seller. I'll send you a copy as my gift and Ronald you're a great dad. You're gonna do good. good congratulations this is the Ramsey show Jade Walsh all Ramsey personality is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt street free stage Kevin and Shabana are with us hey guys how are you? Hi Dave! Hi Dave, great! Welcome welcome where do you guys live? Cincinnati Ohio. Wow welcome to Nashville And how much debt have you two paid off? $84,000.

Wow. How long did this take? 28 months. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? $158,000 to $200,000. Cool. What do y'all do for a living? I'm in engineering operations. And I am a stay at home mom, home school my kids, and I've done some side jobs with just like our homeschooling group teaching. Good for you, well done. What kind of debt was this 84K? David was our house. You paid off your house!

Look at that weird people! And we were saying that before the political people were saying it, I'm just saying, all right. Hey saying all right hey guys way to go congratulations thank you I love it how what's the house worth 475 I love it how old are you two 43 or both 43 43 year old weirdos Wow a paid for house how much in your nest egg in your retirement accounts and so forth 62525. Uh-oh, baby steps millionaires too at 43. Boom boom look at you. How's that feel? It's I never thought I would be here. It's amazing. Life-changing. Congratulations. Proud of y'all. Excellent. So tell us your story. What was your I've had it moment?

What turned this whole thing around? How'd you get connected to us? I've been connected to you for about a decade. I think our story starts back in 2007. We were just married. I was living, we were living up in Detroit area and I was working in automotive industry. And if you remember 2007, 2008, wasn't a real great time up in Detroit.

The company that I worked for was actually sold to a leveraged buyout company. Madeline had just been born in May 3rd and that was the same day we decided we need to get out of here. And we actually put our house on the market. The day she was born. The day she was born.

Oh yeah. That's not, yeah. And- We are out of here. Yes. And the real estate market was awful. It took us five months to sell the house and I still remember this day,

we had to write a $20,000 check and ring it to closing just to get rid of the house. And it wiped out our life savings. And we looked at each other and it wasn't anything we had done wrong, but we just said, we never want to feel like this again. And it was at that point, I was able to get a job in Ohio and my parents lived down there.

We actually moved in with my parents and lived with our daughter, Madeline, for the first year, just to climb back out. Because everything we'd saved for was gone Cause everything we'd saved for was gone. Everything we'd saved for was gone. And then you ended up buying a house and said, but we're gonna get it paid off fast. Yep.

Okay, cool. And you were connected to us way back in Detroit. I think I may have started listening to just a little bit, but then really got connected once we moved down to, I probably listened to you for over a decade. So for a long time, for a long time. Yes. Well it worked, your baby steps millionaires.

Thank you. From being broke and living in your daddy's basement. Yeah, oh my God. It was actually upstairs, it was in the basement. Ah, you put him in the basement. Okay, all right. Either way, I got you, the attic, okay. Wow, congratulations, John.

So tell us what does it look like? A lot of people don't believe that you could pay off your mortgage one day, right? That's not something people talk about every day unless you're here on the Ramsey Network, right? So tell people, what does that look like? What do you do in order to be able to pay off your mortgage? So it was about a couple of years ago,

Siobhan, I mean, Madeline is 17 now and she'll be starting college next year. And I think I was just looking at the principal, like the amount, and I just started kind of doing the numbers in my math. And I was like, if I really, if we really focus on this, we can get this thing paid off. And it just, you had this clarity of thought,

like, if we really focus on this, we can get it done. And then you start making the payments and the bonuses and just put it down. it's like, holy cow. It's just unbelievable detraction that you can achieve. When you really focus. Yeah, you average three or four grand a month for 28 months and you were done. Yes.

But there's still that intentionality of taking the numbers out of the air, right? And putting them on paper, putting them in your every dollar budget. Yes. Wow. Yeah, so I got a feeling, I know who the nerd is in the family.

And so you came out of your cave with your spreadsheet Yeah, so I got a feeling I know who the nerd is in the family. And so you came out of your cave with your spreadsheet and what did your wife say? I think, fortunately, I listened to you long enough that we dreamed together. We had the why. We have had the why conversation for a long time. We talked about what we want our lives to be like when we're older. And so we had that discussion, the why discussion. We dreamed in high definition, as you said.

Early on, we talked about traveling and helping our kids pay for school. And the biggest thing for Siobhan was we had a really challenging time with Madeline. When she was little, she had some health issues. And she said, I wanna be able to be able to go when my children, my grandchildren, and just stay with them, whether it's a week

or it's a month or whatever it is that they need, I wanna have that freedom to be able to go help with my grandchildren. That was her. That was one of her dreams. Yeah. And that's called financial independence, so to speak. It's not, you're not independent. You're actually interdependent. But yeah. Wow. Way to go guys. Thank you. Very cool. You guys are heroes. You go for you go from broke to millionaire in 10 years. I mean, that's pretty incredible.

It's just one day, I would say it's also one day at a time too. And just staying focused on that. And the small things add up too. And being content and realizing that stuff doesn't make you happy. You know the other gift that's hidden inside this story is you've got these beautiful kids over here that are living in your home, being homeschooled, and they're breathing this air of contentment. They're breathing this air of living on less than we make.

And they're breathing air that's not in other homes. And so they can't help but be formed by that. And so if they're ever in their own home and they're not, it doesn't, the air doesn't feel like that, then they know something's wrong. And so you've set a pattern for them. More is caught than taught, Rachel says, and she's right.

So that's a pretty cool thing. It's a pretty cool parenting. They're gonna do what you do. They're not gonna do what you say. So pretty impressive. How do you celebrate what happens next? Yeah, what's the big celebration? Big celebration is actually Madeline's graduating from high school. So we're actually taking a nine day Caribbean cruise.

I like it. Yes, we should do that. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, the year she's born, we sell our house at a loss, move into the attic, and the year she graduates, by God we're going on a cruise. I like it! This is a book ending right here, man. It's perfect. This is the way it should be. Well done, you guys. Very well done. All right, bring up the kiddos. Let's meet them all in their names and ages, please. Malin here is 17. Right. Nicholas is 12 and Samuel is 14. All right, very good.

Good job you guys, proud of y'all. And I assume they've been practicing their debt-free scream because their mom and dad are heroes. Yes, yes. They live with weirdos in a debt-free house. Yep. Debt-free millionaires at 42 freaking years old. Amazing.

Shut up. This is great. I'm so proud of y'all. You're just amazing. Just amazing. Alright Kevin and Shaban, Madeline, Samuel and Nicholas, Cincinnati, Ohio. 84,000 paid off. That's their house and everything. Making them Baby Steps Millionaires. In 28 months they paid off the house making 158 to 200 count it down let's hear a debt free scream three two one we're debt free!

yeah! woo hoo hoo hoo! I love it! Woohoo! I love it! This 10 to 15 year time span, it was 2007, so I quoted that wrong, it wasn't 10 years, so it would be 15 years or so, 16 years that took them to turn. That, it, when you say I'm gonna become a millionaire most people think it takes 50 years your whole life yeah and I'd say you know

it's gonna take forever and I'm not gonna have a life and 80 by the time I you know I'm gonna live in a cave and collect lint until I'm 92 and old paper clips and whatever else right it's just like oh god no it's not how it works they're 42 they're going on a nine-day cruise to celebrate this okay so if you're 27 and you're whining about a little bit of sacrifice shut up and do the work I know wow step up seriously because 40 is the new 30. I thought 60 was. We could do that too. Ha ha ha. Apparently green is a new fashion trend.

That's right. You're on trend, Dave. Good job. I had no idea you and I were both dressed to join the army today. And glasses too. But we did. Hey, we're a real team around here. We're more in sync than we realize. Way to go you guys.

We're very proud of you. I gotta give you some of my hair. No. Oh, man, I'm proud of those people. What a neat family. This is the Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day, this is Habakkuk 319. The sovereign Lord is my strength. He makes me as sure-footed as a deer, able to tread upon the heights.

Tina Fey said, confidence is 10% hard work and 90% delusion. Love it. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You jump in, we'll talk about your life and your money. Amy is in Boston. Hi Amy Amy. Welcome to the Ramsey show. Hi Dave. Thank you for having me. Sure. What's up? Well, I was hoping you could help me figure something out I'm dealing with a lot of resentment and anger and frustration

Go over the fact that I have a friend who is basically committing workers' compensation fraud. She was injured on the job. It was legitimate. And she was collecting workers' comp for a couple of years. For four years, she's been absolutely fine. And she collects a good portion of her salary for doing whatever she wants. And she acts like it's okay. And what's worse is he puts me down for working.

And I don't know what to do about it. I think if she were not part of my friend group and I wasn't going to see her, I would just stop being friends with her. But she is and I don't want things to be uncomfortable. And yet I just have such a hard time with this. I've worked my whole life. I raised two kids by myself. I'm divorced since they were three and four.

They're in their twenties now. They're both struggling to buy a house, even though they work really hard and they're saving their money. I paid over $40,000 in taxes last year. I got you. I couldn't, yeah. It's just, it's maddening, yeah.

Are you the only one in your friend group who knows this? Like, is this a secret or everybody knows? Oh, everybody knows. Everybody knows. And are you the only one who has a problem with it? Because what I'm trying to decide here is if she's the problem or if the friend group in general is the problem. Well, we go back a long way. We've been friends since grammar school. And you know, there were a lot of years when we were raising our families, you know, we're in our 50s now, where we didn't see each other very much. And so a lot of this wasn't really known. But yeah, we all have a problem with it. For some reason, we just don't. Has anyone confronted

her with it? Because if you're telling me, I'm trying to put myself in your shoes, if I have a good buddy, which I do, and I had this situation, I've earned the right at that point to speak truth and say, hey, listen, here's what you've told me. Unless there's something I'm missing, here's what I'm observing. And we've always held each other to higher standards in this. Like, what's going on? and if I'm your friend no she's always been the kind of person who will tell you exactly what she thinks but if you do it to her she'll cut you off at

the knees okay well she can get out and she can't take it exactly exactly I mean I mean what is the big draw here? Why not just, why not just sever in this relationship? There's no point. I mean, you don't have to be mean and call her up and say I break up. But I mean, just quit hanging out with her. She's not good people. Period. And I don't think the chance, I don't think there's any chance you're going to change her. So why hang out with people that are misbehaving?

You're going to become one of them. Plus, yeah you are because you become who you hang around with and you're angry all the time about something that is not even not even your problem. And that was the indicator when you first told us I have a friend who's committing fraud but then after it you were like I do this and I've done that and I pay my taxes and my kids are trying to buy like that's when I was like oh this is really making you feel some type of way. It's not worth it. Yeah, why hang out with it off? Why okay, what's the purpose? There's no purpose There's nothing gained when you're with her. Mm-hmm

Well, I don't I don't hang out with her. It's enough to make you call the show Yeah, I know. I know I know I know because I you know why because it's our today and I just you're right it makes me crazy I guess my problem with it is. That's you, that's not her. It's not bothering her a bit. She's living rent-free in your head and and she's committing fraud. This chick's got it all way around so now I mean I just I would just let her go do whatever she's gonna fraud. This chick's got it all the way around. So, now I mean, I would just let her go do whatever she's gonna do. I mean, I know lots of people who misbehave,

but I don't wanna hang out with them, and I'm certainly not gonna spend my brain calories trying to fix them when they don't even want me to. Right, and she's at home eating a ham sandwich, and you're here ripping your hair out. Over her? Over nothing. I know. Yeah, you're right.

I know. I know. And I think the reason. I mean the reason why I haven't done that I think it's because I don't want it to be awkward when I know I'm going to see her. I don't need to see her. Yeah I don't even think you need to have any? I have a friend that I have known for 45 years roughly, okay, who has about 10 years ago I said I don't even want to be in the room with them again because they have a tremendous problem with their temper and they'll be going along just fine and sweet as they can be and then just decide they're gonna light somebody up and they usually do it digitally because usually they're coward okay and they'll light somebody else in the friend group up and just tear them to pieces and then go on and

act like they didn't do anything just pretend like it never happened and those people are dangerous and I don't want to be around them And so I just made a decision I've known him a long long time, but I don't you know if they're going to be at the party I'm probably not yeah, I just don't want I don't be around them and it's not awkward at all I it's I don't want to expose myself to the foolishness of this human being and That's what you're that's what you're talking about. And so it's sad, but you know. And friendships run their course and that's fine.

Yeah they do. You know, everybody is not a lifer and that's okay. For sure. I mean for sure they do. And because your life changes, they change, everything changes. You move different areas of the country, you start to, you know. Commit fraud. You know, you're, I'm sorry? I said you start to commit fraud. Oh, yeah, there's that, yeah.

You start to be a criminal and then, yeah, there's that. And, you know, just, and then you run other people down who work hard. Yeah. Yeah, cause I rob banks, but you work. Right. Look at you, you know, and so, but yeah, I mean mean that's yeah Amy

you're you're you're spending too many calories trying to fix somebody doesn't want to be fixed and you're doing it over and over and over in your head and she doesn't care so I just I you don't have to call her up and break up I just wouldn't be around when she's around mm-hmm that's simple yeah and then if she calls them says hey where you been going you know I just had enough of you. Yeah. Yeah I just got a gut full of your fraud and you running me down and I'm a hard-working person that pays my bills and I Don't cheat and steal and you do and I just had enough of you And you can't you can't be friends with someone you don't respect

Yeah, bottom line like you there's has to be a base level of I respect you as a human being Yeah, I respect something about you, you know And it's like, you know, I like I have people that are friends of mine that vote wrong, but they've got great intellect Yeah, and they're just using it poorly. And so it's a lot of fun to hang out Well, and I like getting in good spirited friendly arguments You know, you know But I because I like being around people that believe things I don't. Of course.

And just to learn and to check my ideas against them and all that. It's a little intellectual sparring if you will. But, but that's different than, this is the person I'm gonna call when my family's in trouble. Yeah. Cause this person, you know,

a friend is somebody, a 2 a.m. friend we call them. It's who you call at 2 a.m. when the kid's sick and you gotta run him to the emergency room and you need somebody to keep the other kid. Yeah, well there's also a level of this and I'm not trying to go too deep, but if you're committing fraud, you're lying. And it's hard to be friends with liars.

Hell, there you go, there you go. Everything moves at the speed of trust, right? Yeah. Wow, good stuff. Good stuff. Alright, that about puts this particular hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.