The Ramsey Show - App - The Number 1 Way to Avoid Student Loan Debt (Hour 2)

Episode Date: July 19, 2019

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. Open phones as we talk about your life and your money. It's a free call at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Starting off this hour is Tremaine in Silver Spring, Maryland.

Hi, Tremaine. How are you? I'm fine. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I have a question. First, I have a goal. My goal is to come to the studio and stand in there and scream, I'm debt free. Love it. But on the way there, I have about $26,000 in debt, and I have about $40,000 in my retirement plan. I'm 33 years old, and I wanted to know, should I use the money from my retirement plan to pay off my debt, or should I just snowball my debt? Snowball it. Snowball it.

We tell people not to use a retirement plan to pay off debt unless it's to avoid bankruptcy or a foreclosure, and that's not what you're facing. You're just trying to get out. So what's your household income? I make about $41,000 a year. Okay. And what kind of debt is the $26,000? So I have 14 of it is from a student loan and 11 of it is from a car loan. Good.

Okay. And so I'm guessing you're going to be debt-free two years or under is that what you're thinking yes okay good the reason i would not tell you to cash out the 40 000 is this when you take money out of a retirement account you are charged your tax rate plus a 10 penalty okay. Okay? Okay. And so let's pretend you're in a 20% tax bracket, and you would pay that 20% plus 10% would be 30% of this in taxes and penalties. That's kind of like saying, Hey, Dave, I want to borrow money at 30% interest to pay off my debt. Okay.

Yeah, we wouldn't do that. Right. The math is bad. So let's suffer through this 18 to 24 months and become debt-free, and I will see you here in the studio. I look forward to it. Jay is on the phone in Philadelphia. Hi, Jay.

Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. I appreciate you taking my call. I just had tuition expenses coming up in the next two years. I'm actually starting business school, and I just wanted some advice how to run around with my finances. The first thing I don't want to do is take a student loan because I've just started following you since last month. And so I just want to make sure I get through college without getting a student loan and how my finances will work across it.

Okay. The way you asked the question, it sounds like you're already enrolled. Yes. I'm actually starting this fall. Okay. And which school? Temple University. It's in Philadelphia.

Okay. And what does that cost? So the way I'm looking at the tuition rates, it's going to be somewhere around $70,000 or $75,000. Now, what does it cost per year, tuition? Tuition, it would be $25,000 per year. Okay. And there's a couple of overheads uh there's an international program as well that pays for under 10 000 there that pays for 10 000 of the 25 no i meant the 25 per year and plus plus 10 that's that's what i'm going to be incurring

the cost 35 000 a year yeah just about okay And where are you going to get $35,000 a year? So we have $30,000 in savings and we have $20,000 on the other investments. And I actually have a $25,000 car loan going on, which was kind of stupid of me. I'm just 28. So we just wanted to see how we can run around with that debt and also the expenses coming up. Okay. Well, the problem I've got is this.

You are emotionally and actually committed to a university that you possibly can't afford. And so that makes this conversation difficult. Right. Because not only do I have to talk you into doing some things to not take on student loan debt, but the number one way to avoid student loan debt is go to a university you can afford. Right. That is less expensive, in other words university you can afford. Right. That is less expensive, in other words, than this one. Okay.

And I'm not mad at that university, but you can go to school a lot cheaper than $35,000 a freaking year to get a business degree. Like a fourth of that. Well, no, more like a third of that. But, I mean, $10,000, $12,000 a year is in-state tuition for most universities. Right. So, actually, my wife is currently working, and she has a take-home of around $60,000. So we were thinking we can work around with something of her income as well, which would come into play.

Here's what you're going to have to figure out, and you have to decide this. I can't decide this. But from my seat, I would have to tell you to ask yourself the question, if we have a $60,000 income and we have a couple of pieces of savings and we have a stupid car debt that's a problem that we need to get rid of and we want to go to school and get a degree in business why are we paying 35 000 a year when we could do it for 12 right because you don't have the money i mean if you told me that you said hey you know dave

my grandpa left me a half million dollars i'm'm going to Temple, and I'm going to pay for it. Cool. I got no issue with that. No problem at all if that's what you want to do. But you've chosen a car you can't afford, and now you've chosen an education you can't afford. Right. Very difficult to mathematically avoid debt when you've got more going out than you have coming in. So it's very hard for me to have a successful conversation with you

because it's not just about the math here. I actually have to talk you out of something you've got your heart set on. And it's not to say don't get an education. Let me just tell you, there's about five things you can do to avoid student loan debt. The number one thing, by far, that avoids student loan debt. Listen, parents. Number one thing that keeps kids out of student loan debt. Biggest thing of all.

Cost of school. Where you go to school. And school will range between $12,000 a year tuition, maybe $11,000 depending on what state you're in, up to about $100,000 a year tuition. And so you can go $250,000 in debt, like the lady I talked to yesterday, to get an undergraduate degree in psychology. That's what she had done 250 000 to get a psych degree

the reason we have a student loan crisis is not the cost of education it's choice of education and choosing not to work while you're in school, which you're going to be doing, your wife's going to be doing, so that's not who we're talking about with you, sir. But, you know, you're going to be in debt with the choices you've laid out in front of me unless her income goes up, your income goes up, or there's another variable you didn't give me that has money attached to it, and you're selling this stupid car.

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Christian Healthcare Ministries is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. chministries.org. Thanks for joining us, America. We're glad you're here. Catherine is with us in Houston, Texas. Hi, Catherine. How are you? Hi, I'm great. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up? Well, my parents and grandparents have been outrageously generous with gift money for my children.

And they're a two-year-old and an eight-month-old. We've started a five to29 for both of them. And I'm just curious if there's like a maximum amount that you recommend putting in a 529 or if we should be doing some other type of saving because I foresee the generosity continuing as they get older and they're still so young. How wonderful. You want to be smart about the money. That's wonderful.

Very cool. Well, sit down with your SmartVestor Pro or your advisor, whoever your advisor is, and run some calculations. You can put, in most 529s, it's $10,000 a year that you can put in. And pretty quickly, at that young age, that's going to be enough. Two or three years of doing that is going to be enough. Because the 529 obviously has to be used for education. It can be used for lower education now the law has changed you can use it for high school or elementary school or whatever

private school if you want to use it for that but if it's just for college uh you know you can you can kind of do some calculations and go well there's enough in there we're done for college and then we're going to use the money for other stuff after the future generosity for other things. So, you know, you can just sit down and calculate, okay, we're going to put $30,000 in here for a three-year-old over three years. And then that's going to grow to $160,000 or whatever the number is. And that's going to be enough, you know. And so, you know, you calculate what you think your need is and what it's going to grow to, and you don't want to overfund a 529.

Now, the only type of 529 we recommend are the ones where you control the investment. It doesn't auto move around, and it's not prepaid college tuition. It's going into a growth stock mutual fund or funds, and I tell you, if you're going to have that kind of money in there, spread it across the four types that we talk about for investing. Growth, growth and income, aggressive growth and international, and good performing funds. And then you can, based on their track record, project out into the future what you think that money will grow to. And then also looking at colleges, what you think you're going to need. And there's some basic numbers you can line up on that with your advisor.

But you're right. At some point, you're going to top out and go, that's enough in a 529. Then the next thing you can do is going to, that is 100% tax-free growth. The money, as it grows, if you put $30,000 in there, let's say, and it became $200,000, that $170,000 in growth would be tax-free if used for education. You've got to use it for education, okay? So, but past that, you can do what's called an UTMA, a Uniform Transfer to Minors Act, and name an adult as the custodian of the account, and that would probably be you.

So you're opening a mutual fund in your kid's name is what it amounts to, and you're in charge of it until they're 21. At 21, it's their money. You lose control of it, obviously. And so, you know, you've got to train them up. You don't want to raise trust fund babies. You know, you want to raise kids that are productive, and then this money is used to change their family tree but that money then is it would be used for stuff beyond college other wealth building activities right investing or

buying a home or something like that but you know uh and so you know it can really end up well uh so let me kind of give you an example. With us, when we started, our kids were little. They're in their late 20s and 30s now, okay? They're a decade out of college already, right? But back when we started, our kids were tiny. There was not a 529 or an ESA. So we just did UTMAS.

That's all that was available. And it's taxed at the kid's rate. And so it's almost no taxes on the account until the account gets some serious money in it later on. And then we ended up just cash-flowing college because we had the money and left their UTMAs alone so that when they came out of college, got married, started off their life, they had this chunk of money and no debt for college to start off their lives and it has that chunk of money has propelled all three of them into other wonderful things so that's the kind of thing that can happen here the 529s cover college this other money we're talking about just

helps them start their life into their first home and that kind of stuff and um you know that that's where the grandparents are changing their family tree. But now you have to teach these kids starting as soon as they can about money and about how important this is and the value of a dollar and hard work and thrift and so forth. You have to teach them because otherwise they'll think that this is a lot of money and they don't have to work or something, and that wouldn't be a blessing to a child. That would be a curse. Laurie is with us in Dayton, Ohio. Hi, Laurie.

How are you? Hey. Thank you so much for using the gift that God gave you to help others. Appreciate it. Well, thank you. How can I help today? My car had bit the dust, and last year I got another vehicle. Now my husband's car is, we're putting more into

it than the car is worth. Would it be a good idea to take money out of retirement and pay for the car? How old are you? 64. 64 or 54? 64. 64. Okay, I didn't hear you. Okay, I want to make sure I got that. Okay, and how much is in retirement? About $300,000. And what would you take out to pay for a car? Oh, probably around $20,000 to $22,000. Okay, and what's your household income now? Around $70,000 to $22,000. Mm-hmm. Okay. And what's your household income now?

Around $70,000 a year. Okay. Yeah, that'd be fun. I'd probably do that. Okay. I wouldn't do much more than that. Don't get caught up in something and get the fever and jump on up to $35,000. But, you know, $20,000 range, $15,000, $20,000 range sounds reasonable.

What's the car he's driving worth? A trade-in value is around $2,500, and to sell it outright is around $4,500, and we've put $2,000 in it in the last two months to keep it fixed up. And we're having a tremendous amount of medical bills that are a problem. Okay. And yeah, on who? Medical bills on who? Myself.

Okay. I'm sorry. Yeah, I had a kidney removed, and it did not go well. Ooh, nasty. Okay. And is insurance covering most of that? No, sir. I am the donor, and there's no help when you donate a kidney.

After two years, you pick up your own medical expenses, and I've had life-altering complications, and so I'm now paying for those medical bills. So there went my car money savings for his vehicle. I got you. Yeah, I mean, that's why you've got the nest egg, and you're at retirement age. You're going to pay taxes on it, likely, if it's not in a Roth, but you're not going to pay any penalties.

And, yes, I would do that. It doesn't do irreparable damage to your nest egg, you know, and that's why I wanted to limit it. I don't want you jumping up and buying some super expensive car here but you know 15 20k sounds reasonable to me do you see how i'm getting there you see how i'm doing that decision uh correct we want something that's going to lasting for a good long time uh my husband is younger than i am he's still got several years to to work and put into retirement. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Well, yeah, but I'm not going to use that statement to go for any more than $15,000 or $20,000. You're going to buy another car before you die, and he is too. Cars don't last forever. So let's just say, you know, it's a reasonable purchase as a percentage of your nest egg. You're not doing damage to your nest egg. That's irreparable here. That's the point. But I'm not going to say, oh, he needs a car that'll last forever,

so we're going to justify, no, no. That's the kind of stuff people say right before they do something stupid, and I don't want you to do something stupid. But what you're describing is not stupid. It's a reasonable purchase. So I would do that. Hey, thanks for the call. Appreciate you joining us.

Open phones this hour at 888-825-5225. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, our own Josh Wilson works for Ramsey Solutions here as one of our hardware technicians, one of our computer technicians, ready to do a debt-free scream. Congratulations, sir. Thank you. Very, very proud of you. So in between times that you fix all the computers I break, you've managed to pay off some debt. A little bit, yeah. I've laughed with you guys that we have one guy assigned at my office just to fix all the mechanical things I break, the computer things I break.

Josh is actually that guy. He's one among others. But, yeah, someone shows up in my office pretty regularly, something I screw up. But, Josh, how much debt have you paid off? Paid off $104,000. Whoa! Good for you. I had no idea.

And how long did this take you? 23 months. Very powerful. And you're single. I am. And you're how old? Just turned 29 a month ago. All right.

So before your 30th birthday. Got it. So what kind of debt was this? I had two cars and a master's degree. Oh, okay. Cool. And your master's is was this? I had two cars and a master's degree. Oh, okay. Cool. And your master's is in what?

Information security. Of course. Network defense. Of course. Yeah. Because that's one of the things you work with here on us. Yeah. Very good.

Good for you. Wow. Excellent. Very cool. So you've been here about 24 months. How long have you been here? I guess three years almost. Okay.

Yeah. So it wasn't long after you came here then that you decided you were going to pay all this off. Yep. So being in this environment, you don't really have a choice. It's like positive peer pressure. You're in a cult. This is true, yeah. You've got to shave your head and drink the Kool-Aid around here.

We don't check your budget or anything. Nobody's been pushing you on it, but it's just a positive environment for getting out out of debt so tell me about it what did you do to get out of debt uh well um one of the cars um actually before i moved up here one of the reasons why i moved up here uh was i went through a really nasty divorce before i started here and it was a car that i was bequeathed which had my name on it so i sold that one as quick as I could and then just hopped on the baby steps and started working through it. Okay. The good news is when you're single, you don't have to talk anybody into it.

The bad news is there's nobody making you do it. Yeah. I will say, though, my team here is phenomenal. They were all of my accountability partners. Anytime I'd come up with a goofy half-brain scheme to come up with another way to pay off debt or something that I wanted to buy, they were like, no, just stick to the plan. You've got it. Just keep going.

Head down. Grind. Hustle and grind, baby. Hustle and grind. Good for you. So you're in the middle of this every day, and you're fixing all the computers of all the people who help this and installing all the new hires, computers and all that that all the people that help us get all of this done so you see a lot of the inside workings of this place and you've done it yourself what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is

um motivation like uh eventually um you're going to run out of tunnel so quit building more yeah that's uh and i actually picked that up from somebody on my team, Jimmy Kirk. It was one of his sayings is quit building more tunnel. Eventually, you'll find the light at the end. Keep adding to the end of it, which means you'll never get there. That's good. It's like you can't get out of a hole while digging out the bottom. Okay, I got it.

Good saying, Jimmy. All right, good. Very good. Good stuff. Fun, fun. Well, congratulations. Thank you. Good. Very good. Good stuff. Fun. Fun. Well, congratulations. Thank you. How's it feel?

Oh, man, this is the most surreal feeling. I work here, so I get to see this. I see these people that have finished their, done their screams and that, and I've been looking forward to this for a long time. I bet. I bet. Well, I'm proud of you. Thank you. Well done.

You're a sharp young guy and enjoy working with you, obviously. You and I get to spend time together frequently due to my computer faux pas, but you're a genius at that stuff and obviously you've gotten control of your life. Well done. Thank you. Very, very, very well done. All right, it's Josh Wilson, one of our top computer tech guys here on the team for the last two and a half years.

During that time, in 23 months, paying off $104,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. I'm debt-free! All right! All right! And all of his team is gathering around cheering him on.

Well done, brother. Well done. Proud of you. Good stuff. Good stuff. And now on to the next step to be an everyday millionaire, as Chris Hogan instructs. Very good stuff. Very well done.

So at the break, I went out at the commercial break and talked to people. I do that every time, just about at the commercial breaks. If people visit our offices here, there's always anywhere from 200 to 200 people sitting around in our lobby while I'm doing the show. And so I walk out, talk to folks, sign their books, get a little picture made or whatever they want to do, that kind of stuff. And I met two people at the break who paid off their house. One of them in their 50s, one of them 32 years old, $250,000 house in Atlanta, Georgia, paid off in their early 30s. Wow.

So impressive, you guys. You are so set up to win. Wow. Dave is in Boise, Idaho. Hi, Dave. How are you? Doing well. How are you doing?

Better than I deserve. What's up? Okay, I have an earnest money question. And we're building a house, custom building a home, and we're going to be able to put 50% down cash and be completely debt-free except for that 50% down on the house. However, we have a $5,000 earnest money agreement already. We could back out of that.

How could we back out of that deal? And that would leave us debt-free with the exception of rent, pay up more money, and possibly pay cash for our house. Okay. Kind of a stuck two-fold thing. I mean, I'm not an attorney, but I've been in the real estate business my whole life, my whole adult life. And so basically a real estate contract has some contingencies in it.

If the property is contingent upon or the contract is contingent upon subject to you getting a certain kind of loan if you don't get that loan you get your earnest money back if something happens in the inspection or something you get your earnest money back if it says that in the contract so i don't know what your contract says but if you just straight up back out on a deal after you made a promise that's the purpose of earnest money it's a deposit for you breaking your word correct okay so in in in going deep in debt again because we just like i said we just sold the house we're completely debt free and building this new house which is creating another 15 years of debt would at that point should we eat that earnest money and not go into debt and buy something cheaper that we could pay cash for or save up our money for a couple more years?

Obviously, the amount that you're borrowing is making you nervous. Is the payment on a 15-year fixed going to be more than a fourth of your take-home pay? Not even close. Way small. So it's not that big a debt, and you will pay it off much sooner than 15 years. If you have no other debt and you're a saving debt reduction, I hate debt guy, you'll probably pay this house off in five to seven years, won't you? I would hope so. Daughters get ready to go to college, and that's going to take a chunk,

and I can see that. And I just paid off my student loans, you know, at age 51, and I don't ever want to see anybody have to put up with that. I hear you. So I would rather fund her college as long as she's doing well. Yeah, and let's choose a college that's reasonably priced because we have another goal, and that's paying off the house. Correct.

So she doesn't need to go to some super-duper expensive college. But it sounds like you have a – you know, without getting into all your numbers, it sounds like you have a pretty substantial income, and you're just getting, you know, nervous about this new loan after you just got out of another loan when you sold the house, and you've got college bearing down on you. So sit down and write it all out. Make yourself a mathematical spreadsheet.

Make yourself a plan. Even just do it with a calculator and a yellow pad. It's not rocket science. You go, okay, here's what college costs, here's what we make, here's what we're willing to pay for her to go to college. We're not willing to pay X, but we are willing to pay Y. So that means you're going to Y college, not X college. And that means that we can pay extra payments

and get this house paid off in seven years. And then, you know, when you crunch the numbers, sometimes that cleans the negative emotions cleans the fear out because sometimes fear is just based on we don't know what's going on there's some confusion it feels weird feels out of control all that kind of stuff so um but but many times when i crunch numbers and go all the way through it gives me a comfort level that i didn't have before because i can see that it's kind of like a no-brainer. We're going to be able to pull this off. I don't know that that's the case here, Dave, but I kind of sense it is, just based on the way you went at the question and the numbers you were giving me anyway. Hey, good question. Thank you

for being a listener. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Thanks for joining us. Did you know that 50% of people leave their 401k with their old employers when they change jobs? Half the people, when they leave, leave their money with their old boss. Don't do that. Take your 401k with you. Roll it over into an IRA. You have more control. You have better options.

And it is, you know, you don't have to deal with any of the old stuff. It's all right there. You can decide. You get statements with your broker. If you're not on Baby Step 4, you can still do the rollover. It doesn't cost you anything. If you do a direct transfer rollover into a traditional IRA from a 401K, there's no taxes. And, you know, you can find an investing professional.

Of course, we're not in that business. We're not in the investing, you know, brokerage business. But we do recommend people that we agree with and that agree with us on the smart way to do these things. And all you do is just click SmartVestor at DaveRamsey.com. It'll put in your information. It'll drop down a list of what we call the SmartVestor Pros, which are the people in your area that do investing the way that we teach, and they do it with the heart of a teacher.

You pick out the one you want to work with out of that list, sit down with them, or you can interview two or three of them if you want to. Sit down with them, and then just do your 401K rollover. But don't leave your 401k behind never always take it with you we had a big national company a huge company household name that wanted to teach our information they wanted to teach our um what we call smart dollar which we've got huge huge huge companies costco as an example teach a smart dollar to all their employees. It's fun to go in Costco because they all know me.

They're all taking the class now. And I get to have these great conversations when I'm going through the checkout line. But the, you know, one of the other big companies said, well, we can't teach your stuff unless you change that piece of advice to roll over your 401k when you leave because we want people to leave their money here. I said, I bet you do. No, they need to take their money with them when they leave and they need to roll it to an ira and they need to control it and um they refuse to teach our stuff over that one thing because i refuse to change it because it's wrong i'm gonna teach

something that's wrong so don't do it don't Don't do it. Take it with you. Always take it with you. Ann is with us in Chicago, Illinois. Hi, Ann. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hello, Mr. Ramsey. Thank you for taking my call today. Sure. What's up?

So my question is in regards to a quadro. I was part of a settlement from a divorce of 29 years, marriage of 29 years. And so I have this quadro, and I wanted to know what to do with this money. So I went into my local bank. I've been banking with them for years. Oh, crud. And I went in there. They wanted to know the amount.

And the amount is about $185,000. And they told me that they, you know, to set up an appointment, bring them a list of all my debts, of all my source of income, and I asked them what their fees were. So they said that, you know, they gave me a very long answer, but it basically is all the products that they sell to the bank. And so I am just, you know, this is all, of course, very new. And it's a lot of money. Let me give you a couple of things.

Number one, you don't do investing at a bank. Banks are for saving money and for checking accounts and for getting into debt. That's what banks are for. I have banks, several of them that we use, we're a customer of, but we don't do any investing through a bank. We go to investment brokers to do investing. I don't go to the muffler shop to get my transmission fixed.

Follow me? Yes. Okay. So let's go to what I just said a minute ago right before I picked up with you. Let's get you with one of our SmartVestor pros and sit down with them. But let me give you a couple of guidelines because you're brand new at all of this. Your heart's still broken. You're still a little raw after a divorce,

which would make you normal, a human. Most people would be after 29 years. And, you know, you just don't want to make a mistake with this money, and it scares you a little. Is that right? Yes. Yes, it does. And they did say that they have Merrill Lynch there.

Sorry, I didn't want to say the name of it. That's okay. It's not a big deal. But it doesn't matter, it does. And they did say that they have Merrill Lynch there. Sorry, I didn't want to say the name of it. That's okay. It's not a big deal. But it doesn't matter who it is. You know, I just found you last week on YouTube. Okay, so here's the rules. Here's the rules. Just a second.

Here's the rules. I want you to slow down. There's no huge rush. Quadro is simply the splitting up of your husband's 401K. Half of it goes into your name in a divorce. That's all a quadro is. There's nothing big about this. There's no big deal.

I do want you to move it, but you don't have to move it in the next 20 minutes. Okay? Number one, slow down. Number two, never invest in anything that you do not understand, which is going to make you slow down because you're brand new at this. Okay? Take your time and understand it. Don't let someone intimidate you into buying something because you feel dumb and you think they're smart.

That could happen real easy right here, and we don't want that to happen. You're plenty smart to understand the basics of investing if you meet and here's your third guideline number one go slow number two don't put money in something you don't understand number three do not work with anyone in the investing business or money business of any kind ever that doesn't have the heart of a teacher about 85 of these people have the heart of a salesman. When they heard $185,000, their mouth salivated. They saw commissions.

That's not who you want to work with. You want to work with someone that has the heart of a teacher that will sit down with you and walk you through and let you move slow and teach you and let you understand. You do not put money in something you don't understand, which means we're going to go a little bit slower and take our time. And then we're going to meet with someone that has the heart of a teacher. You'll know they have the heart of a teacher by after you've met with them.

You go home going, I really think I understand this a little bit. I've got some more work to do. I don't quite understand all of it, but I think I understand this a little bit. I've got some more work to do. I don't quite understand all of it, but I think I understand more than I did. That means you met with the heart of a teacher. If you go home and feel like you need to take a shower after meeting with them, you met with a salesman. You know what I'm saying? And that's not what you want.

So that's what our SmartVestor Pros are. We vet them very, very carefully for that. And I want you to go as slow as you want to go until you feel good about this. Because it's your money, and that will help the fear go away. Remember the first time you drove a car, how scared you were? Yes. And now when you drive a car, you don't think anything about it? Yes. All it is is you learned how to do something.

Yes. Then the fear goes away. Investing is exactly the same way. Once you learn how to do it, the fear will go away. But it takes a little bit of time. You didn't learn how to drive a car. Nobody tossed you the keys and said, good luck. They put you in there, showed you how to do it, hopefully.

Took you to a driver's course. They took you out to the church parking lot, let you drive around. Whatever it is you did, right? Took you out in the field if you're on a farm, whatever it was. And, you know, you practiced. You did a little bit. You learned. You got comfortable.

And now it's just secondhand. You don't think anything about it. And that's where you'll get to with this. You're going to be just fine. I'm sorry you've been through this. I know you're scared. And I know it hurts. Take your time.

It's hard to trust people right now. That's okay. That's a normal human reaction to going through what you've been through. So just take your time. Take your time. Learn and get someone with the heart of a teacher. Click SmartVestor at DaveRimsey.com. Those guys will help you.

You might find that at a bank, but I doubt it. Again, you're going to a muffler shop to get your transmission fixed. I'm not going to do that. I'm going to meet with a good investment broker, and this is all they do. They're not trying to sign you up for a credit card, get you on a car loan, a home equity loan, and everything else while you're doing it. They're simply trying to get your investments done and for you to understand it and for you to understand it and

for you to be a customer with them for the next bazillion years. And then you can roll that quadro portion of this 401k over to an IRA, a traditional IRA. You'll have no taxes. You'll have complete control over the money. You will be just fine. Take your time. Take your time. Thanks for being with us. That puts this hour of the Dave Ramsey Show in the books. Our thanks to James Childs, our producer, Kelly Daniel, our associate producer and phone screener. I am Dave Ramsey Show. Once again, you made The Dave Ramsey Show one of the top five most downloaded podcasts last year. To get your daily dose of motivation and inspiration, subscribe today.