The Ramsey Show - App - The Only People That Can Help the Weak Are the Strong (Hour 2)

Episode Date: December 1, 2020

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🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and a paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. You jump on, and we'll talk about your life and your money. Ramsey Personality, Chris Hogan is my co-host today here on the air, number one best-selling author of the book Everyday Millionaires and another one called Retire Inspired, both number ones. We're here to help you with your life and your money. 888-825-5225.

You jump in and we will talk. Joe starts us off in Boston. Hi, Joe. Joe, how are you? Good. Hi, Dave. Hi, Chris. How are you? Better than we deserve, man. What's up? Hey, thanks for taking the call. I'm actually in the process of getting ready for retirement. I'm age 60, my wife's 59, and we're in the last five years. And we're actually in the process of downsizing homes, and we're going to split homes between Florida, where we just purchased a home for cash, and downsizing our home in Massachusetts and buying a smaller retirement home. Then we're going to snowboard between the two houses. And the way we're doing this is we're actually having a house built in a retirement community up here that's going to close in March.

And our current house that we're in probably will not be closing until June. And so we've got this little bit of a gap period where the equity in the house that we're currently in will not be available to be put towards the new house. So when we finish this, we won't have any mortgages whatsoever. And I'm trying to figure out whether I should take a mortgage on the new house, which I'd be paying off in a very short period of time, or using another sort of debt instrument like a home equity line of credit or something else that might help us bridge for those two or three months. Yeah, since you're going to pay it off very, very fast, you don't want any closing costs. Right. Correct. And a home equity loan will allow you to do that. Okay.

Yeah, no closing costs and, you know, a fixed rate and no balloons on that home equity loan in case this drags out further than you think it's going to. But you're just going to get a home equity loan. It's a little scary. I wish you'd line this up in a little different order. But because sometimes these things don't work out like we think they're going to, so you need to be financially and emotionally prepared to own both these houses for a while if that happens. Yeah, and we're actually blessed in the position we can do that if that happens.

So you have other cash laying around? Yeah, we have about $3.50 in cash sitting around. Total net we have about $350 in cash sitting around. Total net worth is about $4.8 million. Where's the rest of the money? $1.6 million taxable, $350 of it's cash versus stocks. How much is the beach house? How much are you short by not selling your house? How much are you going to borrow? So we'd be borrowing probably about $300.

Just take that out of the 1.6 it's not this it's not in a retirement account and just take that just take that as a taxable transaction yeah but you're you shouldn't i mean that's that shouldn't shouldn't be a ton of taxes on it because it's not in a retirement account what taxes would be on it just Just the increase in capital gain? Capital gains, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I'd take enough and just pay it off.

I'd do that in a heartbeat. There's not a chance with a $4.8 million net worth I'm borrowing money to buy my beach house. No, I mean, there's not a chance. You just use some of your money. That's what it's for. Yeah. And, yeah, it may cost you a little bit of capital gains money, but, you you know what you can do is just look at the most tax efficient way to do it in other words what prop which pieces of this and these investments do you have that have the highest basis versus their current value so minimize your capital gains because you you cash out the thing

with the least gain yeah and i think you can get some tax advice on that to walk you through it you can probably do it yourself you sound like, obviously, you're very sharp. Yeah. But, no, I'm not going to tell you to borrow money when you've got $4.8 million worth. A million six available to you that's not even in retirement accounts. Nope. Nope. And, you know, Dave, you brought up the whole thing about timing.

It's crucial. I remember working with an entertainer years ago that had a home in L.A. and another home was going to close, and they got this short-term financing for two weeks and guess what it took two months for this thing to go through so what I would tell everybody is just slow down slow way down look at it do it with a clear conscience do it the right way and as you said Dave expect it to take longer than you think yeah because it's going to well and and that and that's what I would do in your situation, Joe. But obviously you're not a dumb guy. I mean, you've got $4.8 million.

Dumb people don't usually do that. So I've met a few, but not many. And so I think you're going to do fine. But that's what I would do if I woke up in your shoes and, you know, I'm in a situation where my net worth is greater than that, and there's not a chance I would borrow money when I've got taxable. Even if I'm going to pay some taxes on it, I'm going to do that rather than borrow money because, of course, I don't borrow money, period.

Well, that's what it is. You're allergic to it. I couldn't do it. Well, it's just not an option. It's not even on the table. Here's the other thing that I run into, and it won't happen to Joe because he's not he's at a different level. But sometimes when people get in these situations where the house I was talking to a friend of mine just the other day, this happened. He he closed on his new house and the other house was supposed to close two weeks later. The old house. Well, the buyer gets all jerkified and starts, you know, every nitpicking little ridiculous thing. And because he put himself over a barrel, he ended up having to bow down to ridiculous buyer requests at the last minute. And even escrowing money and possible price cuts and other stuff because he was stuck

he put himself where he had no walk away power when he could have told that buyer to pound sand that's right and get 63 other buyers in line because it ain't like nashville real estate's hard to sell right that's right but when you've got your other house closed and you've got the money for a short term he's over a barrel all of a sudden that buyer's got him by the throat yep sure it does and can misbehave all over the place now i don't think joe would allow that to happen but no but this guy and this guy didn't he stood up and he just said no you guys are gonna do it the right way or we're gonna drop this whole thing i'll start again but what if he to run his buyer off because the buyer was misbehaving now he's got to start again and what was supposed to be a

two-week deal, like you said, ended up being a two-month or sometimes a two-year because sometimes things like pandemics come up. They sure do. Right in the middle of your best-laid plans. Right. Yeah. No.

So, yeah, that's the thing. You put yourself in a – and in his case, too, not – in Joe's case, both cases, the guys had the money, but they just – you know how it is when you've emotionally sold the house, but then the guy starts being a twerp? And you're like, man, I either got to start this whole process over with a new buyer, or I got to put up with, you know, okay, I'll do this thing. Okay, I'll do that thing. And all of a sudden, you're just getting jerked around because you put yourself in a position emotionally and maybe financially for some people oh yes but you're just like instead you'd be going nope i'm done that walk away power is imperative yeah it changes smart it really is changes everything it just changes the flavor of the deal changes the way the thing goes down if you're dealing in strength and you can be calm and kind and gentle uh but and but firm yeah and you don't

have to get you don't have to get run over but if you're like man i already moved my furniture i already moved my wife in stuff's on the truck it's on it's okay and now and now this guy's you know pulling our chain and if you didn't know, buyers are sometimes crazy. Yes, I do know, Dave. Some of you people that are buyers are sometimes crazy. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. If current times have shown us anything, it's that the least expected events can and will happen, and we have to deal with it. That's why everyone who has a family counting on them needs term life insurance.

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Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. Great rates and a simple process mean there's no excuse to not get this done, people. Chris Hogan Ramsey personality is my co-host today here on the Dave Ramsey show Nicole is with us in Northampton Mass hi Nicole how you? I'm feeling very grateful I get to talk to you, too. You, too. How can we help? Well, I am turning 23 this week, which is causing me to evaluate my long-term financial goals, which I feel pretty good about for myself. I'm no longer in debt. After taxes, I make about $60,000 and I'm able to save 75% of that between maxing out retirement and then putting the rest in an index fund in a taxable brokerage. Now, my question involves incorporating my financial plan with my mother and my sister who, my mom is 66 and she's collecting social security. She's renting and doesn't have any retirement savings.

Luckily, she also has no debt since she's been so afraid of it since 2011 bankruptcy that she had. She still works as an attorney part-time, and she's also my sister's caretaker, who is 25 and suffers from bipolar. She's currently living on disability, and sorry, she's not sure if she'll ever be able to make income. I know I basically I'm just looking for guidance on how to prepare financially to. I mean, my mom can't work forever to support my sister and herself. So I just want to know how to really best prepare for eventually when I'll have to support them. Bless your heart. Wow.

Well, the only people that can help the weak are the strong. And so the stronger you get, the more help you can be financially, right? Okay. And the stronger you get spiritually and emotionally, the more help you can be. There are, let's pretend that you weren't here. What would they do um i mean i i guess your sister would qualify for disability that would give her the ability to live with your mom's social security and the low rent and they would be on a beans and rice, rice and beans budget, and they would make it okay.

Is that the correct answer? I think there's a little factor. My mom is kind of a spender. Well, if you weren't here, and she had to choose between feeding herself and your sister and her little spending problem. I think she could make that choice. She's an attorney. She's not dumb.

Correct. Yes. Okay. So let's help her make those choices. And then you're off the hook. Mm-hmm. Nicole, what happened where you all of a sudden felt the weight of all this on you um well my sister has had what's called sorry uh rapid cycling manic episodes and she had to be hospitalized like four times in six months. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And a pandemic environment where the entire culture is depressed didn't help. Correct. Yeah. And I want you in the heart that you have right now, I want you to sit down with your mom, and I want you all to have a grown-up conversation. I want you to let her know and let her see your pain, see your fear, see tears if she needs to, to be able to hear you, that this is what you're feeling.

And at 23 years old, you don't need to be feeling this way. Yep. And so, Mom, I'm going to need you to be Mom because she's intelligent. She's working as an attorney. But you need to know, yeah, you've got to take care of you, and I'm going to take care of me. And so we need to be smart. Then you're going to have enough money because you're saving like a maniac to be a little bit of a backstop. But I am not going to suggest to you at 23 years old that they are your financial responsibility and so they can continue to misbehave and not with their spending and not plan and not talk through what their

reality is and just because you're there to write checks that is completely unhealthy and toxic okay and you're feeling the weight of all of that because there's a little bit of you that goes, I wouldn't have to do this if Mom would get her crap together. Yeah. Was that too mean? It's not, sir. It's just I think I'm not sure how I would handle, like, not doing everything I could to help them, even if it is, like, a toxic situation, you know?

Well, that's called psychological boundaries. And, you know, if your mom's doing cocaine, you don't buy her cocaine. That's a psychological boundary. And if your mom's misbehaving and not dealing with realities and you're not there, you know, because basically now we're talking about you're being guilt-tripped by somebody or by yourself. Myself, yes. Okay.

All right. So here's the thing. Your obligation is to do what you can if you are actually helping. If you are participating in their misbehavior, that's not helping. That's called enabling. Okay. Including making sure that your sister is dealing with her issues and getting all the help she can and doing the work that her therapist says for her to do.

And if she's on meds, that she's freaking taking her meds, which bipolar manic's sometimes struggle with. Okay. Okay. She's got to do her part. Mom's got to do her part. And then you can be a backstop if there is a bigger thing than the monthly bills but i don't want you to set yourself up for 23

with a lifetime of paying bills for people who won't behave okay nicole have you paid for things for your mom? I'll pick up bills here and there sometimes, but I would say it's infrequent. Yeah, okay. Well, I mean, I'm not trying to be mean. I'm trying to set you free and give your mom and your sister the dignity of dealing with their own thing, and then you can still stand on the sidelines and say, if I need to reach over there and help i'm going to put myself financially in a place to do that but if you get nickeled and dimed down to nothing and you're worn down to nothing and you don't have any life except working to support these other two people at 23 years old that is not going to lead you to a quality life or them no one's going to win in that scenario. And so I want you to be able to stand on the sidelines strong enough that you can reach

over and help them when the situation is healthy for you to help them. Yeah. You need to be daughter and sister, not the parent. Not mother and mother. That's right. Nicole, thank you for reaching out. Young lady, you can hear the pain and the weight in your heart. I hope you'll reach out and talk to someone.

But more importantly, sit down and have that conversation with your mom. You probably need to sit down with your pastor and get some people in your corner as well to give you some emotional support while you're making these decisions. Hang on. I'm going to send you Henry Cloud's book, Boundaries, because you do need to read it. And it'll be helpful to you. It really and so hey hang on open phones at 888-825-5225 money is only good for three things buying stuff for yourself lifestyle investing and helping other people, generosity. And so we all, unless you're just a jerk, want to help other people. The trick is how to help other people in a way that is helpful rather than participating in the insanity.

And every one of us, you and me included, have the potential to be an enabler. We have the potential to participate in someone's misbehavior and causing it to continue. That's right. Rather than participating in their healing. And sometimes that means I'm not paying that bill. Yeah. Which forces someone to deal with the stuff they need to deal with.

To move on and to get into other situations. And I'm not talking about bipolar. I'm talking about just being on a budget. That's right. And mom not overspending and some stuff like that. Being a grown-up. That's so hard. It is.

This is The Dave Ramsey personality is my co-host today here on the air. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Our question of the day comes from Blinds.com. Find out for yourself why Blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings. You get free samples, free shipping, and with the new promos they run every month, you'll save even more. The magic word, the promo code is RAMSEY. All right.

Today's question comes from Sean in Arizona. He says, my wife and I just finished baby step three and are now on steps four, five, and six. My company contributes 25% of the yearly max of the HSA, regardless of whether we contribute or not. We have an emergency fund filled at $12,000, and an HSA is sitting around $6,000 currently and growing each week. We've been contributing in order to hit the max also, but I was wondering if at any point should we consider slowing down our contributions

up to the ante and to up the ante on the house? We have a 10-month-old and are all very healthy. Would you advise slowing down the HSA to help pay off the house and our goal of seven years? I look at this and I think, why is it or? Why can't you do both? I mean, you're talking about here, the max you can do in the HSA for families in 2020 is $7,100. In 2021, it's $7,200. That includes the employer match.

So why not do both like i don't know why he would have to stop the hsa to attack the house early well you get the 25 going into the hsa regardless of whether you contribute or not right so i would limit your total investing whatever it is to 15 and maybe step four of your income i you. You don't need to fund that HSA up huge. There's no, the savings portion of it. I use my HSA, but it's after the house was paid for, as a savings vehicle or an investing vehicle. 6K in there will cover their deductibles, so they're up to snuff on that. You know, if you don't have it, I don't know what your income is. That's the problem here.

So, but if you need the HSA contribution to get to 15%, if that's a way you can get there, then sure, I would do that. But would I use 15% plus 7,000 into an HSA and then that slow the house? No, that'd be like investing more than you need, than you need to while you're in baby step four or five, six. Yeah. Now, once the house baby step four, five, six. Now, once the house is paid off, yeah, I max out my HSA every year among anything else I can do to keep the government's hands off of money. But I've never even used my HSA.

You know, we've got ours invested with a company called Health Equity, and they've got mutual funds available inside the HSA, and so mine's invested like it's a retirement plan. I've never touched it. There's several hundred thousand dollars in there. I put it in there since George Bush started the thing way back. And so, because, you know, knock on wood, we've been healthy. And B, when we weren't, we just cash-loaded it and left the HSA alone, used it as an investment vehicle.

So it depends on, Sean, where you are and whether you need this to get to your 15%. You're getting the 25% match or contribution from the company either way. Yeah, and now that Dave has stopped barefoot water skiing. Stopped? You're not still doing that, are you? Of course I'm still doing it. Well, I've stopped for the winter. It's cold out there.

What's wrong with you? Put the ski on, Dave. Show off. Andrew is in Burlington, Vermont. Andrew, get Chris out of this before he gets in trouble. Hi, gentlemen. How are you doing today? Great, man.

What's up? Actually, can I quickly say something to Nicole, who was the previous caller? Nicole, I know this is a very tough time in life, and I'm in a similar situation. My oldest brother actually is a paranoid schizophrenic, and my middle brother is a heroin addict, and that's been rough, but you can get through this and make sure you reach out for help for yourself because it sounds like you're going to have to be the rock and if the rock is crumbling that's no good for anyone so make sure you're taken care of first good words having been in a similar situation good words brother thank you earlier thank you um but um so my heart goes out to you um

so my question is i'm kind kind of suffering from paralysis from analysis. So I wasted my 20s, to be honest, I'm 32. I wasted my 20s in not getting that compound interest on investing or anything. So I'm luckily enough now in a debt-free position, except for the house. And I'm wondering about how to calculate risk, you know, because keeping the mortgage, obviously, as you guys always done, is a risk. But I'm trying to figure out if I can split any extra money between investing and the mortgage and what a proper split might be, if that's okay. Well, everything's okay.

The question around here is what is the shortest distance between where you are and wealth without taking on extraordinary risk? Because extraordinary risk is not the shortest distance. It catches you off guard and knocks you in the back of the head. And so, you know, that's where the baby steps come from, 15% of your income going into retirement, kids' college, if that applies is number five, and then six is we pay everything else on the house.

So are you asking about putting extra beyond 15% towards the mortgage or towards the end of investments instead of towards the mortgage? Yes. Yes. So I'm putting actually with the company match, it ends up being about 17% towards retirement. We don't count company match in that formula. 15% of your income you put in, and if the company matches, that's gravy on the biscuit. That's extra.

Okay. So how much are you putting into retirement of your income? I'm putting in 10%. Okay. It should be up to 15 plus your company match then. And then above that, we put everything on the mortgage. Yeah. And I'm confused about your question then.

You're asking above that, should you just keep investing instead of paying extra on the mortgage? Is that what you're asking? No. So I'm already putting $150 extra a month towards the mortgage, just kind of making that money work for me ahead of time since the mortgage is only years old at this point. So i kind of was just trying to figure out um i guess i'm technically at four months of savings now and then anything above that if i should split it between um the mortgage and investing again i didn't do any investing oh yeah no no now you'd get yourself up to your 15, like Dave was saying, regardless of the company match. And then anything extra, you're attacking to get this mortgage out of your life.

Okay? And so you're 32 years young. You're going to be fine. You know, I think you are trying to vacillate back and forth between, well, I could just keep my mortgage and try to invest more. That's what I'm hearing if we were to sit down and unpack it. But no, follow the steps. Do the 15%, pay the extra on the house, and then now that the house, when the house is out of your life, now you can begin to look at looking at bridge accounts and some other things to do to beef up your investing. Follow the plan, brother. Just stay allergic to

debt. At 30, in the 30s, that's where stupid can creep in, and you start to get that deserve mentality. You deserve a boat, a truck, or a motorcycle. Avoid that, and you're going to be fine. Yeah, good question. Thank you for joining us, and good words. Appreciate your sharing. Well, you know what's better than getting gifts? Giving them.

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all out at DaveRamsey.com you want to enter for the giveaway it's slash giveaway no purchase necessary to win this is the Dave Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today here on the air. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Isaiah is with us in Terre Haute, Indiana. Hi, Isaiah. how are you? I'm doing just fine. Thank you for taking my call. Sure, what's up? All right, so there's no debate that tithing is important, and at least 10% is what we're required to do, but I just got to a point where my tithing has gotten larger, and I've also noticed

that through my local church, there is a statement at the bottom that shows how much I tithe, and I'm having a moral issue here on whether it is morally acceptable to claim what I tithe on my taxes. Okay. You mean spiritually? Yeah. Yeah. And so you're just checking your heart and going, am I doing this for the wrong reasons? Yes. That's a good question.

I'm glad you're asking that of yourself. I actually wrestled through that one many years ago myself, and I kind of did it at the same point you did, when my tithe got a little larger, and I went, whoa, that's some money. I always wrote it off when it was small. I didn't think anything about it, but it was a big deal. It was a little bit bigger, and I went, yeah, that's some money. I always wrote it off when it was small. I didn't think anything about it, but it was a big deal. It was a little bit bigger, and I went, yeah, that's like a big tax write-off. Here's the thing. I think you can ask yourself in prayer honestly before the Lord

if you are doing this because you feel like it is one of the disciplines, one of the things we do in our spiritual life that God tells us to do because it's good for us? In other words, am I being obedient, or am I tithing because of the tax write-off? 99.99% of the time, someone who asks this question doesn't have the problem. That's the one who doesn't ask who might have the problem. The very fact that you had a tender enough heart to even ask the question tells me you're not doing this for the tax write-off.

Am I right? Yes. Okay. If you're not doing it for the tax write-off, then it comes down to if I take the tax write-off, have I done something wrong? When the intent of your heart was you didn't do it for the tax write-off, have I done something wrong? When the intent of your heart was you didn't do it for the tax write-off, you did it because giving is a part of your faith walk. Agreed? Yeah.

Okay. Then it comes down to me, to stewardship. And in my mind, to be a good manager of money, one part of that is to keep the government's hands off of as much of it as possible because they are not good managers of money so sending them any money that i don't have to is by definition a bad manager of money and so it is it's beyond uh it is in my mind once i got there, I said to myself, I would not be spiritually correct to not take the right off. Because by sending them the money when they misbehave with it is a bad use of God's money. I'm not managing his money well by sending it to someone that's wasteful right when i don't have to yeah now i

wouldn't lie about it and i wouldn't cheat and i'm not gonna have incredible integrity on my taxes it's ridiculous how much integrity i have uh every stinking little dollar and piece of cash and everything is counted we don't let anything slip under the table um not because i'm afraid of an audit but because i want to be honorable before the lord and have integrity about my taxes but integrity also includes paying as little in taxes as the law allows because they're bad managers how's that sound that sounds a lot better but i have run into people in doing what we do and chris you probably have to and usually it is where there's some size to the to the giving yeah that the reason they're giving

is for the tax write-off which by the way is bad math but also it's really bad spiritually yeah and then sometimes i run into people who are giving because they want to be noticed. Yes. And that's, you know, I want my name on the building or I want, you know, I demand this or I demand that. Now, we've put our name on a few things when we did giving, but it wasn't like that was our, again, it was not our motivation. Wasn't your heart. Yeah. Isaiah, you're in the right place, buddy. And I think, you know, as your income grows, the dollar amount's going to continue to grow,

and you're totally fine to be able to claim that on your taxes as you move forward. Let me give you another prediction, okay, Isaiah? Well, I got you. A guy who asks this question is managing the money well because you're sensitive to what God's use of the money is. And are you in his will? Are you doing that? That makes you an excellent manager, and I will give you a prediction that your money will grow

because you're an excellent manager. The parable of the talents tells me that those who manage well will be given more to manage. And those who don't manage well are given less to manage. And actually, that's God. And so there's a wealth inequality thing for you right there. That'll mess you up. Well, and he'll also be very aware of how the church is using the funds and what they're

doing, how they're impacting the community. And so your heart's in the right place, bud. Yeah, very good. I love that question. I haven't had that one in a long time. Thank you for calling in with that. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You know, Chris, I'll take that a step further.

I want to continue that discussion a minute. Because one of the things I find is, and you and I have both observed this, see if you agree with this statement, that people who have a very noble reason, a higher calling, so to speak, for handling their money well, have more of a tendency for handling it well. I would completely agree. So, in other words, if I want to change my family tree, so I'm doing this for the good of my kids so that my kids don't have to grow up. I grew up poor. Some guy says I didn't, but I mean, I grew up middle class. But if you grow up poor and you say, well, I don't want my kids to have to grow up that way. That's a higher calling. That's a

nobility. It's not selfish. It's not. I want to get wealthy so I can get a car. Right. It's not wealthy. I want to get wealthy so I can go to St. Lucia. You know, that's not your reason. That's a fairly shallow reason. It's an okay thing to do, but if that's all the bigger a reason you have, you're not going to go. But probably the highest calling, the most noble calling, are when a person of faith says, I've got to do this because this is what God requires. It's not my money. I'm managing it for him, and I've been doing a bad job managing his money,

and I've got to straighten my act up. When they have that kind of motivation, those are some of the people who will sacrifice the deepest in order to win. They're the ones, their budget is clean. They're not cheating. There's no ish ever comes up in their language because the nobility of their why is so high. Yeah, absolutely. And that's the gauge. That's the thing that keeps them on that track

and won't let them veer off. You know, they are intentional. And that's, I remember having that awakening some 15, 16 years ago. You know, the other thing that does, for those of you out there that are people of faith, okay, when you take that position, then you're no longer taking a poll from your parents who turn their nose up and roll their eyes or your friends who go, oh, yeah, well, nobody ever gets out of debt. You're like, I'm not taking a poll because I'm not doing this for you. I'm not doing this for your approval.

I'm not even doing it for my own approval. I'm doing this because I feel like this is what God requires. That's right. Because the borrower is slave to the lender. That's right. And people don't get a vote. You know, your need to please other people goes away. It goes away.

In tandem with you having that level of higher calling sure it does and that's another element that causes people to win when you are trying to be a people pleaser and everybody in your freaking life has a vote yeah and you're trying to impress them you're trying to make them think you're cool you're you're doing whatever you're keeping up with the joneses or the instagrams or the kardash or whatever it is, you're trying to be that person. You are never going to have any money. That's right.

You're going to be broke your whole freaking life. Yep. And, you know, part of not needing to please other people sometimes is having something bigger to please. I like that. And that that's, you know, I have seen that with my fellow believers, the ones who who say, OK, I've got to do this because this is what God says to do. And I want to stand before him and hear, well done, good and faithful service. When I manage his money, I want to feel him smiling by the way I did it with my generosity, with my diligence.

It causes you to get a will. It causes you to get life insurance. It causes you to be on a budget. It causes you to get a will. It causes you to get life insurance. It causes you to be on a budget. It causes you to get out of debt. It causes you to buy things more carefully and wisely. It changes everything. It does change it all, and it's so worth it. That puts this hour of the Dave Ramsey Show in the books.

Our thanks to James Childs, our producer, Kelly Daniel, our associate producer. I am Dave Ramsey. That other voice is Chris Hogan. We'll be back with you. Have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of Ramsey advice in their life? Let them know about the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast. It's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes. Check out the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts.