The Ramsey Show - App - The SBA Is the DMV of Small Business! (Hour 1)

Episode Date: April 28, 2020

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. Joining me this hour, Ramsey personality, Dr. John Deloney, and he will answer questions about your relational IQ issues, whether it's boundaries with spouses or boundaries with kids or parents, friends, issues around toxic workplaces. I don't know. Maybe you're freaking out and you got some anxiety because you've been laid off or because of the coronavirus in general, the health issues that are out there. Lots of people have lots of things to be afraid about right now.

John, welcome back. Thanks, man. How are you? Better than I deserve, as always. That's outstanding. It's good to see people kind of wandering around, huh? I'm feeling a whole lot better. Our team's coming back to work on Monday in here.

Our work from home time is over in Tennessee. It's coming back to work on monday and here our work from home time is over in tennessee and oh it's just gonna be it's just gonna feel this place is eerie as big as this building is with nobody in it has been a little bit strange like a bad movie yeah yeah so open phones at 888-825-5225 that's 888-825-5225 so That's 888-825-5225. So you've got questions for John about those areas outlined. That's wonderful, Dr. John. I'll help you with that. And, of course, questions about your life and your money. Speaking of which, I told you the SBA is the DMV of small business.

Highly inefficient. There's five or six people there that try really hard, and the rest of them don't give a rip. And I told you when the SBA started making these PPP loans that you guys were going to get in a mess screwing around with them. So this is from Bloomberg. The Small Business Administration's loan processing platform went down Monday for as long as four hours. Crashed their computers, temporarily halting the ability of lenders to process loans for small business owners seeking relief from the impact of the coronavirus.

An SBA official said later that the system was up and running and said it's not accurate that the system crashed. Around here, when we have something go down for four hours we call that a crash without elaborating of course the sba continues to process approve and guarantee billions of dollars in loans per hour does that not give you chills and continues to add lenders to the system the official said the system glitch is the latest glitch in the rocky launch of the $349,000,000 payroll protection program, which aims to issue loans meant to help small businesses as part of the $2 trillion stimulus package. President Donald Trump acknowledged there were minor glitches.

Master of the understatement. In the SBA program during the daily White House coronavirus briefing on Monday, but added the loan process is very fast. Yeah, except for that four-hour delay part. What a load of crap. What are you, a used car salesman? Seriously, dude. Unbelievable.

Oh, God. They were swamped. They were actually swamped, he said. Well, you think? Let's see. You're going to wave it out there. You're going to call it a loan, but say it's going to be forgiven, and you don't think there's going to be a rush on the bank.

Maybe you ought to have your technology crap in place if you're going to launch something like this just maybe dave i've spent my career dealing with outside the bell curve events things when it couldn't get any crazier or worse for somebody in the last week or two i've i'm just you're living outside the bellcow i don't know what to say anymore yeah we're all outside the bill this was a wild movie and then it turned into this script would get rejected in hollywood as not plausible they'd say hey that one we might call it as ours but this is i mean this is like sharknado or something i mean it's just not gonna happen who thought of this and actually got this on film you know that's what would happen if you filmed it you know i would have failed the

freshman in high school for writing this down as their short story hey man that's not gonna happen uh come on man i mean really get your plot straightened out here you got it you got to make it believable for the reader or you lose them. I don't even know what to say anymore. This is a strange world where I find myself speechless. Well, you can't make this crap up is what I'm asking. No. I mean, the SBA is down for four hours with billions of dollars an hour going out. This is like shutting down the water main to L.A. for four hours, and nobody can get water for four hours in Los Angeles or New York City.

That's what it would be like. I mean, can you imagine? This is not a, oh, well, they were really swamped. We had some minor problems, minor glitches on Monday. And then you make a sign-up sheet for billions, and you don't think, I just, yeah, I don't know, man. I don't know. Well, those of you that have not gotten your PPAP loans, we have been clearly recommending that you don't, because there is the word loan in this process, and Dave Ramsey's team has never recommended you go into debt,

and you have to meet the federal guidelines, which are always kind of interesting. Have you ever tried to read the tax code? So, I mean, meet the federal guidelines in order to have the loan forgiven. It is not a grant. It is a loan with forgiveness provisions that you will have to meet exact. And the government is well known for having rushed a bill through and then make up the regs on the back end to suit their new mood on the back end.

I worked with too many students at several universities who decided, I'm going to be a social worker, I'm going to go into public defense instead of chasing big money law because my heart is big, and if I do get my decade decade they're gonna forgive it right and then they didn't it's all gone yeah i remember that story a thousand times the student loans that were not gonna be i mean they were gonna be forgiven that weren't i remember that story they changed oh change my mind in year nine right i mean i don't know change your mind yeah after you've given up a decade of your earning power to take a lesser job in public service. Well, we gave up.

We just took a nine-million dollar loan. It wasn't a big deal. Turned into a loan. Who knew? They called it a loan, but later on we found out it was a loan. Yeah, folks, I'm telling you, this is what's going to be known as being bit in the butt. Both cheeks. Some of you are going to get there.

Some of you are going to get the Rottweiler clamp down. I'm just telling you, it's coming. Some of you will get the forgiveness. It'll work out. I'm not saying it's 100% scam. I'm just saying you guys are acting like this is nothing. You would be a fool not to take the, in quotes, air quotes, everybody, free money, and then the SBA, I'm telling you, the organization you're dealing with can't keep their computers running.

Does that mean anything to you? I mean, you know, when you see lack of competence, lack of integrity with someone you're doing business with, expect to have a lack of competence and a lack of integrity in the future i mean why would you expect something else but we always have we always have this uh illusion this fantasy that this time it's gonna for me just for me they're gonna you know it's gonna be a short line at the dmv today just for me i got 30 minutes i'm gonna get right straight through there just like that i know it's backed up out the door, but they're going to be quick today. I just know they are. Fantasy's so much happier place sometimes.

Dr. John Deloney joining me this hour answering your questions. Phone number 888-825-5225. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. You know, I get lots of questions about ID theft since it's a huge problem. Most people just worry about financial fraud, which is a big mistake. Tax refund fraud, for example, is out of control. Last year, the IRS paid out over $10 billion in fraudulent refunds. Thieves are stealing your refunds. They're also hacking into accounting and tax preparer firms to steal your personal information

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Kyle is with us in Florida. Hey, Kyle, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. Hey, John. How are you all doing today? Great, man. How can we help? Yeah, so here's my scenario. I'm $40,000 in debt, and I just recently separated with my wife, and we're going to be going through the process of divorce. So I live in Florida, but I'm planning to move back home to be able to save that rent amount to start tackling my Baby Step 2.

I'm currently waiting for my stimulus check to tackle Baby Step 1. I have about a little over $4,000 in credit card debt. And then my vehicle is $35,000, and I'm at about $8,000 in negative equity. So my plan is to, after I pay down both my credit cards, to pay as close to my negative equity or to zero as possible and then sell that vehicle and buy a $5,000 to $6,000 vehicle. And then I used Chase. They have a deferment plan for three months, so I want to start using that money to start tackling my baby step two. I just want to know if I'm on the right path.

How long have you been married? We've been together for going on 11 years, been married for eight years. What happened? Um, she, uh, started having feelings for somebody else and she, uh, she said she fell out of love with me. So, um, I was willing to try. She was not willing to try to mend, um, the problems within our relationship. I'm sorry to hear that.

So what are you, 30? Yeah. Yes. Okay. And what do you make? What's your income? So my guaranteed income from the VA is $630 a month. When I move to Connecticut,

I will be trying to find as many jobs or a job that pays me at least $2,200 a month. That'll put me about $36,000 a year. Who do you owe the money to on the car? On the car, it'd be Chase. Say it again? Chase? Chase, yes. Okay. All right. What I first want you to do is contact Chase,

because this car is absolute insanity in your situation. I mean, if your wife was making $100,000 a year, maybe it was less insane, but with your current income, a $35,000 car is off the chain and crazy. So I would contact Chase about the idea of signing a note for the difference, letting them let you sign a note for the $8,000 negative equity and get it sold now. Because I'd rather you owe $8,000 than $35,000. Good to go. Will that affect her credit? It won't affect anybody's credit if they do that deal.

Yeah, no one's credit is affected if they do that deal. Or if you can borrow the $8,000 anywhere, even on a credit card, it would be better than having a $35,000 debt. We're reducing your debt from $35,000 to $8,, um, that gets you there. So what's the nature of your disability from the military? Uh, just, uh, knees back, um, ass reflex, um, headache, stuff like that. Thank you for your service. I'm sorry you were hurt. Um, all right. Yeah, that that's the, uh, the financial part of it is to try to get rid of this car because it's the glaring thing sticking up in your overall picture.

If you didn't have that car payment, you would have a lot of relief. Agreed? Yes, yes, I would. Okay. Now, I have a question about that strategy. It will be I don't have any money saved, so I can't go out and buy another vehicle. What should I do? Should I wait to save that $6,000 for that vehicle?

I don't know that you need a $6,000 vehicle. You need a $1,000 vehicle for right now. You need a hoop to get around, just something to get around, right? You don't need anything fancy because right now we're trying to get out of debt, and you don't have a ton of income. You don't hardly have any income right this second. And so you're moving back in with mom and dad, right? Yes.

At 30 years old after an eight-year marriage. Okay. That's going to be tough. Agreed? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yeah, like awkward and weird? A little bit, sir. Yes, sir. Yeah, like awkward and weird? A little bit, yeah.

Yeah, okay. So my point of that is not to say that you shouldn't do it. I'm okay with it being a safety net, you know, while you go through a hard time. But I want you to immediately start working on your exit strategy, too, because you're going to want to be out soon. John, what are your thoughts? Yeah, that. Can I be honest with you for a second, Kyle? Yes. strategy too because you're going to want to be out soon john what are your thoughts yeah that um can i be honest with you for a second kyle yes you sound like a broke guy

and here's what i want to tell you a little bit right now yeah um i want to make sure that you honor the transition that's happening and you're clearly a stud you've done military service you've sacrificed yourself for bigger things than us but i don't want you to blow over a divorce i don't want you to blow over what a big deal it is to move home with your parents um and i think a lot of times we start start trying to solve problems with math problems and right now you've got a heart problem too so i want you to hear me say dude you're worth being well and you're worth being okay and i'm, I have 100% confidence that you're going to work around the other side of this. Dave's right. You got to sit down with your mom and your dad and make a plan for what moving home

is going to look like, what their rules are going to look like, and then your plan to leave their home. And you're worth more than $36,000 a year, by the way, too. You're worth more than a couple of part-time jobs, my friend. Okay. So I'm going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book, The Proximity Principle, to help with the career side of things. That's Ken's specialty, and he'll walk with you through this, brother. Listen, if your heart's broken, that would make you what's called a normal human being.

And that's what John and I are saying. We're acknowledging that with you. And we can hear the pain in your voice, dude. I don't blame you for hurting. You would be weird. You'd be a psychopath if you weren't hurting in this situation. You've got a lot of stuff going on here. And what you're trying to do is execute all the tactical decisions, which is good.

But John's saying don't drive by the emotions while you're doing that. Get both done. Good question, man. We're with you, Kyle. We're with you, brother. All right, Joy is in Texas. Hey, Joy, welcome to Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, thanks so much for taking my call.

Pleasure. How can we help? Well, I have a question about investments, and I listen to your radio show all the time, and I know that you talk about mutual funds and I was wondering about real estate, kind of what proportion to diversify should be investing like in rental homes or something like that.

My husband and I don't have any debt. We own our home, we own our property and we have a fair amount of investments like in mutual funds great and i just didn't know about we have a couple rentals but my husband thinks we should not put any more into beyond retirement any more into mutual funds and just to save it all for rentals but i'm thinking with the stock market, I should probably do like half and half, but we aren't really sure. It's whatever you're comfortable with. I have ended up with a good deal more in real estate than I have in mutual funds. Two reasons for that. One is I'm a real estate guy.

I grew up in a real estate household. I love real estate, and I know how to make good money on real estate. I'm really good at it. So I'm comfortable with that investment. The second reason is I bought a whole bunch of it really, really cheap in 2008, and it's worth four times what I paid for it now, just 12 years later in most cases. So it has shot up more than the stock market because I bought it at bargain basement prices in the recession. And so consequently, I've got a good deal more of my net worth in real estate than I do in mutual funds. But there are people who say, I don't want the hassle of a renter. They need zero in real estate, right? And there are people who put almost everything into real estate because they absolutely love it. Again, there's not a certain percentage that is a

cookie cutter approach that says you need to have that percentage. I will tell you, don't buy real estate, and it sounds like you're not, unless you pay cash for it. So pay cash for it, and if you guys want to own real estate, you want to own a bunch of it, that's fine, and it doesn't have to just be houses. You could start moving up. It sounds like you've got substantial money, that you've done a good job, and you can start moving into some stuff like office buildings or apartments or something and change your operation a little bit.

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Plus, they guarantee the perfect fit for your windows. Go ahead and get started today. Go to Blinds.com to take advantage of this week's special offer. Rules and restrictions apply. Jackie is with us in New York. It says on my screen you're debt-free. Jackie, congratulations. Thank you so much, Steve. It's an honor to talk to you.

You too. How much did you pay off? Hello? How much did you pay off? Hello? How much did you pay off? I paid off $24,111.05 in 21 months. Look at you. Way to go. And your range of income during that time?

It started out about $19,000 and went up to $30,000. Ah, very cool. Very cool. Well, congratulations. That's amazing. You must have sold something or had some money in the bank or something no i didn't you know what you hardly made 24,000 21 months i know i know i know it started out really slowly um my older brother and sister-in-law are fpu coordinators out in la and um my brother told me about you and I thought, yeah, yeah, yeah. That can't apply to me. I'm single. I live in New York. I'm an actor. Like,

how is this possible at all? And then one day I heard a girl on your show do her debt-free screen. She was in her mid thirties like I am and she was debt-free. And I thought, okay, if she can do it, I do it there you go and so it started out really slowly but then once I was able to get my income up I just started throwing everything at the debt and then I got fired up and you know it was exciting to see the number go down and down and down and then I just finally did it congratulations well done well done kiddo proud of you so I'm guessing your uh your brother and sister-in-law from the west coast are cheering you on right oh they are and so we're my parents

in philadelphia pennsylvania i just every time like i saw a new number that i got excited about i would text them and they'd be like way to go you got You got this. You're so close. You're so close. Keep going. And I really think that that's a definite thing that you need in order to do this if you're single. Because you don't have a partner to be a teammate with you. So you just need someone on the sideline saying, you can do it. You can do it. Yeah, and you better do it or I'm going to get you. The encouragement and the accountability both, right? Exactly. It's life changing. So encouragement and the accountability both, right? Exactly.

It's life-changing. So what kind of acting do you do? I do musical theater. Oh, very good. Yes. Very cool. Good for you. It's really fun.

It's really fun. I also work as a tour guide and at a bakery. So I was keeping myself busy, working seven days a week, multiple jobs, just so I could do it. And then when i finally paid off the debt i was like okay i guess i can kind of cut back a little bit if i wanted to yeah well you're free now how's it feel oh my gosh it's unbelievable it's unbelievable you said you're in your mid-30s have you ever been debt free as an adult nope not at all. What kind of debt was the $24,000? It was all student loans. Ah, kick Sally Mae to the curb.

Exactly. Don't need that ugly woman as a roommate. No, not at all. Jackie, what is a musical theater expert doing during the corona pandemic? I just picture you singing all of the time in your apartment. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. corona pandemic are you just i just picture you singing all of the time in your apartment oh yeah oh yeah well i um just discovered tiktok which has been really fun i know i know down the rabbit hole oh man get a bunch of musical theater people in tiktok and this world's gonna spin out quick man i know right i know right and then you it's really great. There's a lot of the dance community have been putting up classes, and so I've been able to keep working on my craft. It's been, you know, it's been a challenge, but I, you know, thank my lucky stars. I say thanks to God for allowing me and motivating me to be debt-free because it made this whole situation a hell of

a lot easier. Oh, I bet. Good for you. It really did. Yeah, if Sally's out of your life right now, your life is better. It's always better, but right now it's for sure better. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

So much better. Absolutely amazing. Well, very well done. We're proud of you. Thank you. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? Well, I think the key is to believe in yourself. You know, I heard about you, Dave, years ago, and I thought, there's just no way.

This can't apply to me. And once you've changed your thinking and believe that you can do it, you'll make it work. And then it's just about staying disciplined and saying, okay, I'm not going to do this or that because I've got to off this debt i got to do it and then it's so worth it it's so worth it way to go very proud of you we got a copy of chris hogan's book for you everyday millionaires that's the next chapter in your story and uh we need to come see you when you're on broadway okay yes please i would love that i love it way to go jackie all right twenty four thousand dollars paid off in 21 months making get this 19 to 30 thousand dollars that's beans and rice three extra jobs count it down let's I'm debt-free! That's TikTok-worthy right there.

She musically sang that debt-free scream. Zoom and TikTok have spiked during the coronavirus. Oh, my gosh. Who would have thunk it? Who would have thunk it? Who would have thunk it? Jay is with us in Washington. Hey, Jay, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, John and Dave.

Thanks for taking my call. Sure, man. What's up? Yeah, so my question actually, you know, revolves more around a career change and hope to get some advice. I currently make around $70,000 with my current company, which has great work-life balance since I do have kids. However, there's a potential job opportunity for me with a different company,

and it has the potential of making $15,000 to $20,000 more than what I'm making now. However, the tradeoff is that it does not have that flexibility with work-life balance as much as I want it to be. And so, you know, my family and I were currently on Baby Step 2. And so I'm curious what advice would you give on weighing that work-life balance versus that higher income, which will help us kind of accelerate getting out of Baby Step 2. That's a heavy question. What is, how old are you?

I'm currently 29. If this all works, what does the 39-year-old version of you think of this? The way I look at it, Dave, really, you know, we're currently in FPU, and the way I'm looking at it is that if I take this, I'm looking at it as a temporary stepping stone, that once I get out of debt, we're able to get an emergency fund in place that, in the long run, I can switch gears and, you know, find a better role that could be less paying, however, have that work-life balance that I'm looking for. But, you know, just somewhat in alignment. What is the essence of the work-life balance that I'm looking for. But what is the essence of the work-life balance? What does that mean when you say that?

Sure. Well, currently right now I'm an analyst, and so, you know, I get to work remotely. I could take off when I need to for my kids if they have appointments, et cetera, like that. However, this new role is going to be um an operational role and a manager role actually so it's going to be really you have to be on there and put in the time uh most of the days and so so you'd be working a real job yeah yeah and so what's your wife do

my wife is currently an accountant and so she works like a full-time 40-hour? Yeah, but she has some flexibility on the role as well. And so what would happen, so you keep the kids during the day right now? Yes, right now since we have a stay-at-home order. I'm sorry, say that again? Yes, so they're home right now because of the stay-at-home order in Seattle. No, okay, but I'm saying during the school year or during the summer, who keeps your children if you take this new job?

So my wife would probably have to. We're probably going to have to adjust. The good thing about the new role is that it has a weekend so that she can probably take the day that I'm working during the week. And then the day that I'm off, which is Monday to Tuesday, I could take that day. So I've made this deal with Adele before. And being on the other side of it, my recommendation is be very careful about giving up family time unless you and your wife sit down and have a firm plan for the duration of this, what it looks like,

where you're going to be on the other side of this. I've done that once, and we had a great plan, and it worked okay. And I, as the dad, had to trade, right, that loss of family time and loss of hugs from my kids that you can never give back for this idea that I was helping the family. But I've also done it without a plan and it was a mess. It's a better answer than I would give because I've never not worked at least 40 hours a week. You cannot get back hugs. There's not a price you can put on that. Folks, I love telling you about well-made, well-thought-out products. Today, I'm talking about Grip6 belts. I don't know about you, but I'm not a fan of traditional belts.

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Krista's in Georgia. Hi, Krista. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. What's up? I have a question pertaining to student loans, and I'm currently in Baby Step 2, and my Baby Step 2 is primarily my student loans.

And, of course, as you already know, with COVID going on, the government has reduced the interest rates to 0%. I meant the interest rate to 0%. And I wanted to know in the sense of, you know, being in the middle of baby step two, is it, because it's at a 0% interest, is it better to try to knock down the interest of the ones that are quote unquote frozen or while at the same time paying off the smallest debt, but then is it better just to focus completely on the smallest student loan altogether? If you look at it this way, if you look at all of the student loans added up equal what?

Total is right at $80,000. Okay. And if you add up all of the interest being paid right now under the current covid situation on the 80 000 it equals x you may not know what that is but off the top of your head right but it's you're paying x in interest so your total bill between now and the time you pay it off is x in interest plus 80 000 right correct okay so if you pay ten10,000 a month on $80,000 plus X, it doesn't really matter which one you pay off. Mathematically, you are going to end up paying $80,000 plus X.

Follow me? Yes. So you're going to pay it. It doesn't matter. So let's do it with the debt snowball, which keeps you encouraged because you have measured to pay it. It doesn't matter. So let's do it with the debt snowball, which keeps you encouraged because you have measured traction that way. And so what's your smallest debt, your smallest student loan debt,

or your smallest debt? You said primarily you have debts other than student loans? Just a car loan. Oh, how much is that? Right now it's at $16,000. so it's right in the middle of the debt. $16,000. Yes, $16,000. Good.

I thought you said $60,000. Okay. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. All right. And what is your household income? It is $60,000. Okay. And what do you do for a living?

I'm a public health care worker. Okay. Cool. Can you pick up extra hours right now? Unfortunately, no. I can see if they can allow us to do like COVID response. Yeah. But sometimes it's a little limited. If you're able and willing from a health perspective and so forth to do all that stuff, you need the income because you've got a lot of debt.

You've got $96,000 in debt with a $60,000 income. And so list your debts, smallest debt, your small student loan debt first, and attack that with a vengeance. Do not be doing any retirement temporarily no investing until you get this mess cleaned up and if you do thirty thousand dollars a year out of your sixty thousand for three years you'll be done that's twenty five hundred bucks a month yes you'll be done in three years. That's beans and rice, though, isn't it?

Rice and beans, beans and rice. That's it, baby. You got the plan. You can do this. I got you. You can do it. You call back if you need help, but I would just get in the attack mode, list those things smallest to largest, start plowing through them,

throw up your hands, touch down every time you pay one off, run around the room yelling a little bit and get back to the next one and a little celebration and keep going and the more you pay off the faster you'll move the more fired up you'll get the deeper you'll sacrifice the faster you'll get out um that that's how this whole process works marissa is with us in california hi marissa how are you good how are's so nice to talk to you guys. You too. Your question for Dr. John. Well, here, just some background info. I've recently been married for two years. This is my first marriage. My husband's second marriage. We're on baby step two. I am 32 years old, and he's 45. He has a daughter who's a junior. So, you know, our concern is by looking at the future, he'll be maybe, I don't know, 63 by the time we've already paid off our home mortgage and, you know, living and giving like no one else and being debt free. So, um, you know, what would it be your advice? Because, um, our,

my stepdaughter will be, you know, going to college already in the next two years. And like I said, we're only on baby step two right now and we have 90 K in debt. What's the 90 K in debt on 90k that is um nothing but um revolving credit cards and his car before i got yeah before i got married i paid off my student loans and my car but this is before i was introduced to dave bramsey so i didn't follow the you know smallest step to biggest step plan that i absolutely love and it's working for us now. So it's all credit cards. You don't have any of the credit card debt. Oh, and the wedding. Who do you owe for the wedding? Yeah. Who do you owe for the wedding?

For the wedding, we owe about $12,000 now. To who? To a credit card. Oh, so it's all credit cards. Yes. $90,000 in credit card debt. That's all? No other debt? Total, total debt, 90K in debt, including his car, which he owns $20,000.

What's your household income? $20,000. Ah. What's your household income? $130,000 a year. All right. And so how fast do you think you're going to pay off $90,000? Are both of you on the game on this? We are. We just finished FPU two weeks ago. Yeah.

So you're going to be debt-free in two years? You know, I hope so. Oh, no, no, no. Hope is bull. That's not what we're talking about here. You should have already run the calculation. $130,000 minus $45,000 you can live on. Matter of fact, that's kind of wussified. You ought to cut deeper than that.

$45,000 times two is 90,000. Yes, we have 90,000 in debt. I know. Divided by two years is 45,000 a year. You're debt-free in two years, and you should be debt-free in 18 months. You should be debt-free faster than that. And by the way, when does a kid go to school? Oh, two years.

Yeah. We put her in a state school or better than that in a community college for the first two years which is free or near free in california depending on the situation and um then we get to where we cash flow her school and by the way he's not going to be 63 when you pay off your house he's only 45 you should be debt free everything by the time he's 53. And that daughter should get a job and start putting money ahead towards college as well. Game on. There we go.

Be part of the solution. Absolutely. Good news. Let me send you a copy of Anthony O'Neill's number one best-selling book, Debt-Free Degree, to help you get this kid through school debt-free. But you should be able to make it. You're just going to have to lean in on this really hard. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. In the middle of these uncertain times, Ramsey Solutions wants to give you

some hope for the very first time ever, we're giving you Financial Peace University free for 14 days. Go to DaveRamsey.com slash hope so you can watch from home. Business leaders make your life easier with FreshBooks. Whether you're starting a business or you've been at it a long time, FreshBooks is one of the smartest decisions you'll make this year. FreshBooks is an accounting software designed for people like you that lets you do the things like automate your invoicing and your online payments so you get more time to work on your business. Try FreshBooks for 30 days free at freshbooks.com slash Dave Ramsey.