The Ramsey Show - App - The Secret to Being Rich Is There Is No Secret (Hour 2)

Episode Date: January 8, 2020

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. It is a free call. If you want to talk, some say the advice is worth what you pay for it.

The phone number is 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Christina is with us in Nevada to start off this hour. Hi, Christina. How are you? Hello. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Hello. How are you? Better than I deserve.

What's up? Good. So bear with me. I can see why people get kind of nervous. We just found you last week and my husband and I are looking at, you know, getting out of debt and living better lives. We currently have three teenagers at home, two of which are over the age of 18 and they do, and one of them's not biologically ours we took in my daughter's fiance when his mom moved across the country and so they both pay rent and this is where my husband and I are bouncing heads off each other is because I want to put the the rent the kids pay um towards,000, and then after that, put it towards paying off any outstanding, well, a lot of outstanding debt.

He wants to keep it out and pay the monthly payments, which I don't see that being, I mean, either way it washes out, but I don't see that being rational because we can keep track of it and pay off stuff faster if we use it towards the debt and the $1,000 emergency fund. Okay. Regardless of where it comes from, it's not kept out of anything, and it's not assigned to anything. Your income all goes at the top of the page, all of your income, regardless of where it comes from. Okay. And that then becomes one number at the top of the page that you have to spend this month.

Then you take all of that money, that pile of money that comes from various jobs, rent coming in, whatever it is, and you say, all right, we're going to give every one of those dollars an assignment. And basically we put the household on beans and rice, rice and beans, scorched earth. We save $1,000 as baby step one with any money we can squeeze out of the budget. After that, then we're going to list our debts, smallest to largest, and we're going to attack them in that order. So if you're going to use our system, both of you are wrong. Yes, and he thinks I'm trying to get him again.

Just finding you last week, he's still thinking his budgeting way, which I pointed out his budgeting way is how we got into this mess. It didn't take you long to catch on. It didn't take you long to catch on. So here's what I'll do. Let me do this. You guys, the biggest thing, let me tell you the other thing that happens, that one of the highest points points of correlation with success meaning if

you do this you're highly likely to be successful is the two of you to get on the same page and get aligned very few couples who are at odds continually win with money it almost never happens all of our all of our data for 30 years shows that so i'm going to send you a copy of our book free it's called the total money makeover seven million people have read it okay both of you read it it's a book you it's a book you can read in two nights okay i mean like not staying up all night nights i mean it's not that hard a book okay so um a lot of pictures in it. So, yeah, both of you read it, and then both of you decide we're going to do this or we're not going to do this. But if you're going to do our plan, the way you would do it is you jump on everydollar.com, and you download our free budgeting app.

So now you've got two free things in this conversation, our free budgeting app. I did the app yesterday, so that's where I was arguing with him, saying, no, we're going to do this first, this second, and he just, you know, again. Well, you've got a little bit of information about our stuff that he doesn't have, and so let's just catch him up with the information, and I think that will create alignment rather than arguing about he's not smart because his plan didn't work or something. That's funny, and it's true, but it's probably not a point of persuasion.

Right. So, okay, so when are these kids moving out? So they actually just got engaged. They just got their first job this past year, and they're saving as much as they can right now for them to move out with a nest egg. And so they're actually jumping. So as a family, this coming Friday, we are going to be purchasing your STU because it is either that or put it on a credit card. And I went, no, we're going to pay for it with cash. Okay.

So this coming Friday is the soonest we can purchase it. And so they're going to get their own subscription as well because they're going to be a couple together. But they kind of have a jump on it with not having debt so far. So how old are they exactly? 18 and 19. And when are they getting married? Not for at least two years. They've already made that plan together. They want to save and pay for the wedding in cash and also be able to afford their place, their own apartment.

Okay. And how much do they earn? Currently, my daughter makes approximately $1,600 a month. He makes approximately $1,800 a month. He makes approximately $1,800 a month. Okay. I'm going to want them to move up their timeline on everything. Okay. But we'll let them decide that after they have new information as well with Financial

Peace University. Because I think they're making enough money with no overhead to amount to anything that they can go ahead and get married. If they want to have some kind of celebration later, that's fine. And then they can, you know, when they get out and get on their own and get their own dignity, it's going to change a whole lot of stuff. And it'll probably change the dynamics in your household in a good way, even though you'll be $1,000 a month poorer.

Okay? But not quite, because you're paying for a lot of stuff. So here's what we're going to do. We're going to put both of you guys through Financial Peace University as my guest. Oh, my God. Thank you. Instead of giving you the book, okay? And we'll just make that our wedding gift to them.

Now, here's the thing to understand, okay? Some interesting data out there called the poverty sequence um and this is what i'm worried about with this couple so i want to make sure we get all this right if you graduate from high school then get married then have babies and uh and you don't live together before you're getting married so if they move out and shack up they're violating that sequence right they increase their probability of living above if you do the things in the order the old-fashioned order so to speak okay and there's all kinds of data on this that are out there a lot of several studies that are backing this up

but the most interesting one is if you graduate from high school before you get married and you get married before you have children and you don't move in together before you get married you have a 97 probability of never living below the poverty level isn't that interesting and so that's what i'm trying to protect here and trying to inject myself into this discussion with these young kids so you guys you guys hold on and we'll have kelly pick up we'll get you both signed up for financial peace university and let's see if we can get these kids off on the right foot and get you and your husband turned around and aligned together and working together and then we're going to have a whole lot of winners in this conversation this is the Dave Ramsey Show Are high health care costs getting you down?

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It's not insurance. It's Christians financially and spiritually supporting each other. It's what Christian Healthcare Ministries has done for over 35 years. And our members have shared over $2.5 billion in medical bills. To learn more, visit chministries.org. That's chministries.org. That's chministries.org. Christian Healthcare Ministries is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. chministries.org. So in case you didn't know, our audience has well over doubled in just the last couple of years. And it's not because we suddenly became a hit. It's because our podcast numbers are way up.

And the other thing is the YouTube community has discovered us. We're now in the top 1% of all YouTubers, and we just had our one billionth minute of our content downloaded on YouTube. One billionth minute. That's how big a deal we are on YouTube. It's pretty crazy. Now, what comes with that is, of course, that audience is much younger than some of you listening to AM radio, right? It's a bunch of puppies, a bunch of kiddos. And so I get some of the most interesting stuff on Twitter now. My hate mail has completely changed.

And so, you know, Dave, you're such an old-fashioned stick-in-the-mud boomer. Yeah, you're such an old-fashioned stick-in-the-mud boomer. Yeah. You got it, which is why you're listening. So let's continue that discussion from a minute ago, since I'm an old-fashioned stick-in-the-mud boomer. And I hate all your religious stuff, Dave. That's the other one. I'd listen to you all the time, but all that Bible stuff, man, you're just, you should glee all that out.

It hasn't got anything to do with money. You don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, well, you're 22 and live in your mother's basement, okay? So let's just keep in mind who's confused here, all right? Now, let's walk through it, though. Here's the interesting thing. Okay, Professor Bill Galston, he was on President Clinton's Domestic Policy Committee. He was one of the advisors.

Found in research that if you graduate from high school, marry before having a child, and have that child after age 20, this piece of research says only 8% of the people who do so will be below the poverty level. Fail to do it in that sequence, and 79% will be below the poverty level. Having babies while you're in high school, having babies very, very young, having babies while you're not married, all of these kinds of things. It changes your probability for poverty dramatically. Dramatically. Here's another one. Recent report on this topic focusing on millennials reports that 97% of those who follow the success sequence,

and here's the sequence, earn at least a high school diploma work and marry before having children or living together will not be poor as they enter their 30s 97 so i mean this is just statistical data which is pretty agnostic except for its conclusions. Only 4% of homes with a married mother and father are on food stamps at any given time. But 21% of those cohabitating and 28% of single parents are on food stamps. 78% of married people own their own home. 41% shacking up, cohabitating adults own their own home. So this data says that you're not winning when you get these old-fashioned moral things out of order.

The data says that it's affecting your life when you just do whatever the flip you want to do. And so really be thinking about this. And moms and dads, really be coaching your kids on this. It affects the probability of poverty. It affects the probability of poverty. It affects the probability of financial success. Well, Dave, I don't like you discussing all this Bible stuff. That's not Bible stuff. That's research.

Now, the Bible does have a lot to say about these things, and I do talk about biblical finance, and I am very open about the fact that I am a Christian. And there's a reason I do that. It also has an intellectual basis to it. Let's walk through that. For those of you pups that don't understand this stuff or that are just twisted and you're old, I don't care.

But here's the deal. Personal finance is 80% behavior. It's only 20% head knowledge. The knowledge, the details of what you need to do to become wealthy and handle money well are not rocket science. Live on less than you make. Get on a written plan. Invest. Stay out of debt.

Have money saved for an emergency. Don't sign debt for somebody else called co-signing. These are real basic primitive concepts. They're not deep at all. Knowing what to do is like losing weight. Most people know what to do, but we like chocolate chip cookies, which are not conducive to losing weight, I have found, personally. Especially when you eat an entire line of them.

So the point here is personal finance is more about changing and managing your behaviors, being emotionally mature, than it is about some set of head knowledge. The secrets of the rich is that there's not a secret. It's self-discipline. It's saying, I'm not going to spend like I'm in Congress. I'm not going to try to keep up with the Joneses on Instagram because they are really broke. The old Joneses next door used to be broke.

The ones on Instagram are really broke. And so I'm not, not you know this is behavior management so here's the thing 100 of your behavior choices are based in your beliefs what you believe about your future about life about relationships about what you believe causes you to make the behavior choices you make. Well, I don't want to work all my life and have no fun, so I'm going to go ahead and have fun now. That's a belief. And that causes you to say, thank God it's Friday, oh God, it's Monday.

The little man can't get ahead. That's a belief. And if you believe that the whole game is rigged and no matter what you do, you will not be able to win, why would you work hard to win? Why would you sacrifice to win? That's a belief. Beliefs affect your behaviors. Your behaviors flow out of what you believe.

And what you believe about right and wrong, what you believe about morals, what you believe about how you treat other people, is a spiritual thing. Now, you can be Muslim, you can be Jewish, you can be agnostic or atheist, but your moral code, wherever it comes from, is a spiritual thing. So for someone like me who believes in God and believes that the Bible is instructing us on how to live well, that the scriptures are for our benefit, then for me to not integrate that into creating behaviors that cause you to win would be intellectually dishonest.

It would be an incomplete picture. And so, you know, I wish there was a Dave Ramsey that wasn't religious. Well, they wouldn't be a Dave Ramsey. They would just be a person that had no idea where their moral code came from. I know where my moral code comes from. I don't always do it perfectly, but I at least know what it is, and I know what the source of it is. And that gives me a guideline. It's a map to the party, baby. It's turn left, turn right. You missed your turn. Turn around and go back.

You got to have a map to the party, or you're not getting to the party and that's your moral code that causes you to make your decisions what you believe causes you to make your decisions and the you know knowledge is a part of your belief system but most people when it comes to money already know they need to live on less than they make and they ought to have a written plan most people know running up a bunch of debt is not going to cause anything but problems. Most people know that buying a bunch of stuff to impress people you don't even like with a bunch of money that you don't even have is a bad idea. Most people know these things. But what you do then flows out of your belief system.

So I spend all my time on the radio, the podcast, the YouTube. I spend all my time on stage. I spend all my time writing books and doing curriculum for Financial Peace University and so on, trying to change your beliefs. Because once I change your beliefs, I've changed your behaviors. That's how your life gets transformed. When you say, Dave, you changed my life, I didn't. You changed your life.

I just showed you how. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you for joining us, America. Lindsay is with us in Kansas. Hi, Lindsay. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure.

What's up? So my husband and I have been talking about this for a little while. As we know, a deployment is coming up. He will be leaving at the end of this year for probably almost a year-long deployment overseas. With that being said, right now we actually have three vehicles. I drive the van with the kids, and we have a commuter car because he drives about 60 miles to work every day to his base. And so we have a fuel-efficient economy car for him, and then we also have a pickup. Club cab kind of thing we've had for a while.

The car and the pickup are both paid off. The van we have payment on, but we do have nothing savings we could pay it off. My question, and I guess his was too, and we are on opposite sides of the question, I guess, is should we get rid of one of the vehicles while he's gone for a whole year? I mean, we have three vehicles, and there will only be one of me that's needing a vehicle. Yeah. I suspect that the only one up for grabs is the commuter car, right?

Or the pickup. I mean, truly, the commuter car is the one that he'll probably use when he gets back. But, you know, it's also... So the pickup is worth what? Oh, probably $10,000 to $15,000. What is the commuter car worth? $5,000 to $8,000. Okay. And what's your household income? $215,000. Okay. Well, the only reason to get rid of it is the savings on insurance

and the loss of value while it sits there. So how much does a $12,000 pickup go off in value in one year? A couple of grand. Okay. So not a big deal for somebody making 215 right okay so uh if you if you like both cars and they're reasonable cars and they're the same car you buy when you get back if you're thinking about trading anyway i mean be time to get rid of one of them now and then just buy whatever you want to buy when you get home right uh but if you're not if you

were just gonna if you said i hope they're both sitting there when i get home there's not a real financial thing that's driving you to sell them because the losses of value and insurance and tags during one year is not going to cripple a two hundred thousand dollar income family right so i you know i'm ambivalent about it but uh i kind of see that you know whoever it is it's arguing to get rid of them because it's wasteful that kind of kind of feels that way it's kind of an emotional feeling about it but the actual dollars that you're wasting are not a bunch so but again if you were going to trade anytime soon you know like for instance if he wanted to uh buy a little

better truck after you all hit some financial goals or something i'd probably dump that i'd probably get rid of that truck and then when you get home just drive the commuter car for another year and then buy the thirty thousand dollar truck you're thinking about buying or whatever you know if you're gonna do if you're gonna do something like that then i'd go ahead and dump it now so you don't have the loss during the year but if you're gonna drive that truck for five more years, I'd probably let it sit there. And keep it. Okay.

And I'd pay off that van today, Lindsay. I know. Today. I'd be telling that to him. I know. We need to. It's just sitting there gaining interest. Yeah, we could pay it off.

Today. Today. We'll work on it. Tell him thanks for his service, and you too, kiddo. Thank you. All right. Michael is in Idaho. Hey, Michael, how are you?

I'm focused but not finished. How are you doing, Dave? Just the same, sir. How can I help? So I am currently going to be joining the military coming March, and my wife and I were wondering how we should work with baby step 3B and 4, where we won't be able to buy a house for about 10 years or so. Well, you can set money aside in a traditional mutual fund, not in a retirement account, something like just an S&P 500 probably, an index fund, you know, for the next 5 to 10 years,

and just kind of pay yourself a house payment thing for a while and build up enough in there to pay cash for a house when you do settle down and you're not moving as much in the military or when you leave the military and you settle down one of the two uh and that's what a lot of military families do uh but you know the thing is you don't want it to keep you from beginning your retirement investing. And so sometimes when people are doing baby step three B, meaning after they're out of debt and they have their emergency saving, they're saving towards a house.

Sometimes they stop retirement investing temporarily to build up their down payment. I would not do that here. I would go ahead and start your, start your retirement investing and start putting something aside for your future house. But just have a house account over there, an account that you're saving for the house, and probably to pay cash someday. And just begin to build that up and work that that way. So, good question. All right, and thank you for your service.

Matthew's in Texas. Hey, Matthew, how are you? Doing well. How are you doing well how you doing better than i deserve what's up hey got a taxable i have a taxable brokerage account and i have a nasdaq 100 index fund that has averaged 17 and a half percent over the last 10 years now it is 50 weighted in technology stocks now is that too risky yes it is too risky to have everything in okay it's obviously done fabulously but it's not diversified you're not well diversified you are heavily in uh highly volatile industries and stocks i mean nas, NASDAQ's all small companies. This is a small-cap fund. No, it's a large cap.

This is heavy in Microsoft, Apple, Amazon, Facebook. Well, then it's not a NASDAQ. That's what they call it. It's a large growth, low turnover, 5% turnover rate. But, yeah, it's like 11% in Microsoft. Well, obviously you've ridden the Apple Wave is what you've done. That's where that fund's gotten a lot of those returns from. And so here's the thing.

I wouldn't do away with it. You like it if you want to keep it, but I wouldn't have all my money in it. I mean, you've got a lot of money on one chip here, on one number, and the roulette wheel's turning around. So, yeah, you know, and these are volatile. I mean, tech is a volatile space, rapidly changing space. I mean, everything in that space moves all the time, and you're playing with a lot of, you know, that's an unusually high rate of return. That rate of return is not a – I mean, I'm wondering if that's correct even.

But I hope it is. I hope you're right. I hope I just haven't seen the thing. But it's wonderful. If it is exactly as you describe it, and it may be, I still would not have all of my money in something that has got that much risk to it, that is heavily based in. I don't buy sector funds when they're in one sector of the economy.

The point of buying funds is to be diversified. And so I would have, you know, I teach people, and my personal portfolio does not include a fund like you're talking about, even though, again, it's got my attention. 17% is pretty sweet but um but but i spread mine across growth growth and income aggressive growth and international and the reason i have a diversified fund fund base types of funds are diversified and the money in the funds are diversified as well as safety it's all about you know it's all about not going backward as much as

a lot of people are going to go backward. As fast as that thing is shot up, it will shoot down just as fast whenever the time is there. That fund in the tech bubble of 2000, the end of the 1990s, would have crashed on you. And I remember that very clearly, how much that affected the overall market. So, yeah, I mean, again, if it's doing what you say it's doing, I probably wouldn't get out of it. I'd probably keep some in there, but I wouldn't have everything in there. I wouldn't bet the farm on that horse.

That horse is wild. It's a wild horse. Thanks for the call. This is the month when people everywhere decide they've had it. They're sick and tired of being sick and tired. They're going to change their money habits. They're going to make a change. Almost 7 million people have now purchased and more than that have read The Total Money Makeover.

It's our number one bestselling book. It's on sale right now at DaveRamsey.com for $12.99. You can pick up your copy or you can call Ramsey Concierge Team at 888-22-PIECE and they'll get you set up as well. 888-227-3223. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you. Elizabeth is with us in Missouri. Hey, Elizabeth, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. Sure. How can I help? So back in 2010, I was a single mom with a mortgage, and I lost my job.

I bounced around but could never find a job that paid the same. So I took out a bunch of credit cards and still couldn't make ends meet, ultimately leading to a foreclosure in 2014 and then bankruptcy in 2018. I'm sorry. So I finally landed a job in June of 2018, making as much money as I made in 2010. How much? $51,000. Good. So things were still tight, but we were making it. We were doing okay. Fast forward to then last September, I received a substantial raise and so now I'm bringing home $60,000. The problem though is that I haven't been able to sock away enough money to pay for a new car and my clutch is slipping. I have zero savings, and I have zero retirement,

and a foreclosure and a bankruptcy on my credit report, which I know you don't like. Well, nobody likes it. I mean, nobody would wish you to have the hell you've been through. I'm so sorry for what's happened to you. You've had a long run there. But it sounds like it's turning around. It sounds like the sun's come out it is it really has so it's a long road um so you have a car now so so yeah my the other issue that my car actually

died on december um 25th on christmas in 2013 2013 yeah so what are you what are you driving today? So I landed a job in which I had a very generous and a boss, basically. So the car that I drive right now was paid for outright, and I paid back an interest-free loan. So the car's been paid off. Oh, so you have a car. Yes. Okay, and so what loan. So the car's been paid off. Oh, so you have a car. Yes. Okay, and so what's wrong with the car you have?

The clutch is slipping. The clutch is slipping? Yeah. Oh, okay. So have a clutch put in it. Well, again, with no savings and with no retirement, I don't. Well, retirement does not affect clutches. Well, I understand that but i

basically i have no money um to draw from how many babies do you have one how old 10 and how much is your current rent 620 okay all right here's what has happened, okay? You have been through financial hell. Sharon and I went through that in our late 20s. You may have heard the story. We went completely broke and lost everything and went through bankruptcy at 28 years old. I'm 59, turning 60 this year. So it was a while back, but I still remember how it felt. Okay. That leaves a mark on your psyche. You will never think the same about money again. And so part of what you're dealing with right now is ever since all of that has happened, you have felt insecure and you have fretted and worried about money. I can hear it in the way you're asking these questions. Am I wrong?

You are not wrong. You are correct. I worry about it all. That would be like normal human behavior, by the way. You had the crap knocked out of you, okay? And for you to be a little gun-shined duck every time something comes up would be like normal. You'd be weird if you didn't.

You know what I'm saying? Right. So I'm glad you you know you're you're behaving in an accurate in an accurate way the trick is let's uh respond to the fear the pain the scars that the past have created in a way that is different than worry and let me walk with you on that because i did that i did the exact same thing and so like for instance at our house uh we have an emergency fund and then we have an emergency fund for the emergency fund because my wife is never ever ever ever going to be that broke again you see what i'm saying it's because she gets like she

gets like you if we even if i even walk near the drawer where the paperwork on that fund is kept she will shoot at me i mean you know what i'm saying so it's like ah right so that's that's what that's what's going on in your spirit i can feel it so anyway all of that to say uh retirement is not a part of this issue today but retirement the worry about retirement is the fact that you're doing nothing about it and you don't see that you're ever going to be able to because you feel stuck. Am I missing something? No. Okay.

That is correct. Okay. So here's what we're going to do. You're going to go through Financial Peace University as my guest. I'm going to pay for it. And you're going to learn how to get on a budget, and you're going to learn how to build your first $1,000 savings in emergencies. You're going to fix the clutch on the car out of the cash flow that you have coming into your home.

You do not have ridiculous rent. Fixing this clutch is very, very important right after buying enough food to eat this month and keeping your lights on. But you don't have a plan. Your money just comes in and it goes back out, and it feels out of control. So we're going to get you under control where you are, be where the money is behaving like you want it to behave. Instead of you freaking out all the time about it, you're going to be on a budget where you're telling the money what to do instead of wondering where it went. And I'm going to show you how to do that. It's not rocket science. That's the good news. And we're going to pay for all of it. It doesn't cost you a thing,

but real quickly, your first goal is just get the car fixed. A clutch is not going to kill you. You need to get two or three bids from local mechanics. Are you in a good church? Yes. Call your pastor when you get off the phone with me and tell him the clutch is going out on your car and you're a single mom. Who is a good person that you can trust to give you a good deal to fix the clutch?

Okay. Okay, and that way you're not going to get messed over by somebody and you got somebody but you know and then you go in there and you tell them the preacher sent you right and so you're going to get taken care of okay and so that that's what we're going to do now uh get the clutch fixed then we're going to get you on what we call the baby steps their first goal is going to be to save $1,000. The second goal is get any debts you have remaining outstanding paid off. Do you have any debt outstanding? Student loans. How much?

$21,000. Okay. We're going to work our way through that and get rid of that monster in the closet. It's been hanging out for a while. All right? Yeah. Once it's gone, you don't have any payments but a $625 rent and a 10-year-old. Then we're going to build a fully funded emergency fund

of three to six months of expenses. How would it feel to have no debt and $10,000 or $12,000 in the bank? Amazing. Yeah, that's where you're going to be in about 18 months from today great if you do exactly what i tell you to do you're going to have no life you're not going to be out to eat you're not going to be socializing you're not going on vacation we're getting this mess cleaned up so that you don't have anything to be afraid of anymore because fear is eating you up yeah okay to change. And you can do this. I got your back. I know exactly how you feel. And then once you've got your emergency fund in place, then we're going to start saving 15% of your income into retirement. And then we're going to start your kid's college fund. And then we're going to start talking about buying a house. How old are you?

39. Okay. And so two years from now, roughly, you're going to start saving for retirement at 40 if you save 15 of your income from now until 65 or 70 years old the way we teach you you're probably going to be close to being a millionaire whoa yeah you're going to be okay you just need somebody to show you how to do it. But you've been living from fear to fear to fear because you've got the crap knocked out of you. Me too. Me too. I understand.

Hold on. We'll take care of you. Kelly will pick up. We'll get you signed up for this. And you get in there and change your family tree, kiddo. Change the way you look at this the rest of your life. When you go through trauma, like a divorce that's really bad and nasty.

I have two friends that went through nasty divorces last year. I mean, mean stuff. When you go through that, it changes you. When you go through losing a house, losing your job, going through five years of being underemployed between the last good job that you had and the next good job that you had, all the while trying to raise a baby by yourself, that leaves a mark. That leaves a mark.

Happened to some of you, didn't it? Yeah. Welcome to the human race. That leaves a mark. That leaves a mark. Happened to some of you, didn't it? Yeah. Welcome to the human race. That puts this hour of The Dave Ramsey Show. Did you know you can now listen to The Dave Ramsey Show on Pandora and Spotify? For all the ways to watch and listen, check out our show page at DaveRamsey.com slash show.