The Ramsey Show - App - The Student Loan Program Has Turned Into a Plague! (Hour 3)

Episode Date: August 15, 2019

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. James starts this hour in Pennsylvania.

Hi, James. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. How you doing? Better than I deserve, man. What's up? So, I just had a quick question. I've been listening to you for probably about like

maybe three months uh me and my wife have gotten like real focused and got a plan and everything over the past month cool but last year after we got married i needed a new car and i'm pretty handy with a wrench so i i was kind of hesitant to get a new car but i put about 36 000 miles on my car a year so i said uh you know what i'll just i'll go get a new car, but I put about 36,000 miles on my car a year. So I said, you know what, I'll just go get a new car. So I got about 29,000 left on it. And I was wondering if you think that's probably a good idea to keep it or just kind of get rid of it and get something used that's cheaper. So you put how many miles a year?

About 36,000. So you're spending a lot of time on the car. Yeah. Well, I live in Pennsylvania and I work in Baltimore, so each workday is a minimum of 100. Yeah. So whatever you drive with the kind of miles you're putting on it, you're destroying its value because of mileage, right? Oh, yeah. And so I'm going to destroy the value of something the least valuable I can. I mean, what do you want to lose, $30,000 or $5,000 or $10,000?

Because whatever you drive, by the time you get through with it, in about three years, you're going to have 100,000 miles on the thing. Yeah. And anything you drive, you're messing it a hundred thousand miles on the thing yeah and anything you drive you're messing it up in terms of value so you want to destroy a the least expensive car that'll get the job done getting the job done in this case means uh reliability obviously you got to get to work um and it also means a reasonable level of comfort because you spend a ton of time in the car so you're not driving a smart car you'd be in the chiropractor as much time as you spend in the car right right so you know you gotta have something reasonable but um

i'm thinking i might rather destroy a 10 or a 15 000 car rather than a 30 000 car yeah i mean for the past couple years i was driving an old honda and i $10,000 or a $15,000 car rather than a $30,000 car. Yeah, I mean, for the past couple of years, I was driving an old Honda, and I did all the work myself. I rebuilt the engine and changed three transmissions, but I just got tired of spending so much time in the garage on it. Well, we might, you know, but that was a $5,000 car. Yeah, it wasn't fancy. Yeah, so I'm thinking $15,000 to get the reliability up above the Honda,

but once you get above that, you know, you're pretty much just taking $100 bills and throwing them out the window as you go to work every day. Yeah. So, I mean, what's the current vehicle worth that you owe $29,000 on? Maybe $32,000. Today? I already got 24,000 miles on it. Okay, but it's worth $ 24,000 miles on it. Okay. But it's worth 32 today?

Maybe. There's no, the Kelly Boo book values and all that, that's not up yet because it's the 19th. And it's not like a very common car, so. Hard to sell then, too, probably. Okay. Well, it's a hybrid, so it gets great mileage. Yeah. Okay.

Well, I mean, here's the thing. You could say you take that car at $32,000, or you take another car that you would say is a reasonable, reliable, reasonably comfortable car for $12,000 or $15,000, and you say, you know, which one do I want to put 100,000 miles on? Do I want to turn $32,000 into $5,000, or do I want to turn 32,000 into 5,000, or do I want to turn 15,000 into 5,000? And I'm not driving that car to do what you're doing with it.

If I'm in your shoes, but it just doesn't, it's not logical. Even if you had that, if you could afford the car, and you were out of debt, and you had a big pile of money, if you want to just waste that money, then it's okay. That's fine. You've got the money to waste. But at this point, you're in debt for this thing, and you're going to, I mean, it's going to be worth $10,000 in about 20 minutes the way you're doing this. And you're going to regret that, I think. So I think I would get a $12,000, $ 000 honda and and replace this thing if it were me

and that's going to move you out of debt but the regardless of the debt it's still you just got to talk about the number of miles you put on a car what you're doing to it it's a cost of living for you uh cost of the career choice versus where you've chosen to live uh the commute that you've chosen to engage in is what's causing this. And that's another part of the discussion, I guess. Thanks for the call. All right, William is with us in Massachusetts. Hi, William, how are you?

Hey, Dave, how are you? Better than I deserve. Good to talk to you. All right. So I have a little bit of another dilemma, but my question went to you was, basically my mom's going through a little bit of problems right now financially. Not too much, but she needs to get my brother's name out of the co-signer of our condo. And I was just wondering if it's worth it for me to just buy her condo from her and have her as my tenant.

I would just buy it at whatever is left in her mortgage. And there's quite a bit of equity left in her condo but it would still be considered hers and i don't want anything from her she could you know she could sell it i could sell it for her later no i'm very new to all this uh i just graduated college and paid off my all my bills a few years ago so it's like i'm starting to build my own life now but is this going to hurt my future a lot by doing this? No, but you guys are just used to one of you signing up for the other one, and it always bails somebody out, and that's what got her in this mess in the first place.

And you're just going out of the frying pan into the fire is what she's doing. She's trading brothers on which one's going to be pissed. So, you know, that's all. So why can she not refinance and take your brother off of the co-signing? I just don't think she makes enough to refinance. Even though there's only 120 left in her condo. What does she make? It's not that much.

Huh? What does she make? I'm not even sure. She's a house cleaner. So I think she makes like an okay living, but I don't know if she makes like over, I don't think she makes more than $40,000 or $35,000 or $40,000 a year. Okay. So if she can't make enough to afford to refinance to pay the payments,

what makes you think she can pay the payments? Yeah. Well, I was thinking if I put it in my name, the payment will be very low. I have excellent credit, and, you know, the interest rates are low, so I don't know. What's the condo worth? The condo's worth $320,000. $320,000? Yeah.

And she owes $120,000? Yeah. Okay. Is your brother a partner in this deal? If they sell it, does he get some of the money? Yeah. Okay. Is your brother a partner in this deal? If they sell it, does he get some of the money? No. No. He was just a co-signer. He was just looking to help her out also. Okay. And I kind of

want to help my brother out because he's ready to buy a house now and he needs to get his name out of it so he can get like the first time buyers and all that stuff. Yeah. I would. I don't think he's a first time buyer. I think he's already bought a condo so he probably didn't qualify but um but aside from that i think she needs to sell it and buy a $200,000 condo for cash how's that she's got a ton of equity she didn't make any

money she'd be debt free and on her own condo free Won't be as nice as the one she's in, but it'd be pretty nice. And then she's not got either one of her kids subsidizing her life. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Are high health care costs getting you down? Are you confused trying to navigate your options? Do you wish you could find an affordable, biblical solution to your health care costs? Based on New Testament principles, Christian Health Care Ministries, or CHM, helps Christian families, churches, and ministries join together as the body of Christ to share their major health care costs. Christian Health Care Ministries is the original health cost-sharing ministry.

A Better Business Bureau-accredited organization, CHM members share to pay each other's medical bills. It's not insurance. It's Christians financially and spiritually supporting each other. It's what Christian Healthcare Ministries has done for over 35 years, and our members have shared over $2.5 billion in medical bills. To learn more, visit chministries.org. That's chministries.org. Christian Healthcare Ministries is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. chministries.org. Shannon is with us in Tennessee. Hey, Shannon, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, it's good to talk to you.

You too. What's up? So my husband and I are on baby step two, and I've had this rental property from before we got married since I bought it in 2008. And I'm just trying to decide if I need to sell it. If I got a buyer that would just buy it out from under me with no profit, is that better than hanging on to it or just getting rid of the debt, period? Because I can't seem to sell it and get any kind of profit. Okay.

So it's not really making you any money either then? Well, I get about $300 and some odd dollars a month from their payments to me, but not anything substantial, no. So what would it sell for? I was told by an agent, 99, the highest number I got was 110, but it's not in the best condition. And the tenants in it now, they pay like clockwork, but they have kind of just run it down. This thing doesn't sound like a blessing to me. Yeah, it's really not. It's actually been a bit of a burden and but you know there's just that little bit of money i take in and and just listening to you um yeah but it didn't work all

the time the burden is more than that and it's the property is deteriorating it's not appreciated um the people are are trashy and, I'm getting rid of this thing. Okay. So if somebody says, here's $81,000, and that pays my mortgage off, I'm done with it. There you go. Right. I'm out. Yeah, I would tap out.

I'd be done. I like real estate, but I like real estate that makes me smile when I talk about it, and this doesn't make you smile. Nothing about it does. A little bit of money does, but even that, by the time you do a few repairs, and by the way, when they move out, all that $300 a month you've been collecting and a whole lot more is going to go back in to put the stupid thing back together if you keep it as a rental.

John is with us in New York. Hey, John, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you, Dave. I've pretty much been living through your seven rules since 1981 without even realizing until a couple of years ago when I started following you. Wow. And I'd like to kind of treat myself and retire. I'll be 62 in six months, and I have zero debt. My house is worth about $650,000. I have no mortgage, and my cars are paid for. Never paid credit card debt of any kind, interest.

And I have about $2.3 million in just various CDs, savings accounts and I'd like to take out start drawing off my 401k which is about five hundred eighty thousand dollars at 62 and then at 65 take my Social Security my wife Social Security and my company's pensions which is about two thousand dollars a month yeah why not okay I just wanted to get the opinion from somebody who I respected. I've had financial advisors tell me that, and I just don't necessarily trust them because I'm very conservative. Yeah, you've got plenty of room.

I think it sounds like you've got a couple million dollars, and some of it's invested poorly. Yeah, it's in CDs. It's not doing much. My parents, I inherited about $600,000 from my parents a year ago, and it was in an annuity, which I just rolled over. Yeah. And unfortunately, that's been impacted now by the stock market.

But, you know, I'll keep it on that. Yeah, but it's not the other world. You don't get hurt on a roller coaster if you don't jump off. I'd be buying right now rather than selling. So, you know, I think you need to systematically get that $2 million working harder, because if it made it made eight percent it would make eight times more than you're making now so where would you recommend i look to get eight percent return i mean there's going to be risk i'm sure at eight percent yeah well i mean

the the stock market has averaged 11.8 in its history that's the history of the S&P. Okay. And so my mutual fund investing averages north of 12 on my portfolio of mutual funds that I own. But that's an average. I mean, it goes up and down, but you don't need to panic when it goes down a little bit because it's going to come back up and you just ride the wave. Okay. Well, that's good. So you've got to make more on this $2 million. I mean, you're losing a couple hundred thousand dollars a year there.

But other than that, I think you definitely have done a wonderful job. You're a savings maniac, dude, and you're in a great place to retire. You wouldn't have to touch the $2 million. It's just a's just a you know matter of do you want to grow or do you want to sit there and tread water which is what it's doing right now but you can live off the rest of it pretty easily it sounds like yeah you're definitely ready uh probably like 4x ready good question thank you for joining us lee is up next lee is in arizona hi lee how are you hi dave i'm great how are you better than us. Lee is up next. Lee is in Arizona. Hi, Lee.

How are you? Hi, Dave. I'm great. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Oh, thanks for your time. So my husband and I, last September, paid off the last of our debt.

It was, the last one was a big one. It was $140,000 of his student loans. So we got that knocked out. And then over the past year, we've been building up our emergency fund. So now we're on four, five, and six. And he's been also building up his emergency fund at his business. So now we're kind of at this point where, you know, we've got our mortgage left and also the SBA loan on his building. So I'm looking at that. Our mortgage balance is $140,000 or just a little bit less. And I saw how he paid off, you know, his student loans the same amount in like 21 months.

And I'm thinking, okay, I know we need to back off a little, but if we can keep some really good intensity, like the possibilities seem amazing. And I just feel like he's kind of lost his fire from, you know, really, really knocking everything out. And I don't know how to motivate him to get, like, as intense as he was before or if, like, I'm in the wrong with this. Are you guys working on your monthly budget together? Yeah. And there's money left over to put towards baby step six and you're not putting

it towards baby step six or you are no it's more that like he increased what he brought home substantially when we were paying off the debt because he could draw more from his business what's he doing what's he doing with the money at the business that he's not bringing home um he's been doing it more and again toward like the the emergency fund for the business that he's not bringing home um he's been doing it more and again toward like the the emergency fund for the business and you know like some things there but just keeping more there and for what i mean if there's a reason to keep it there that's fine but you make this sound like it's arbitrary that he's keeping it there yes he needs retained earnings and if the retained earnings of the business suffered during the time you were getting Baby Step 2 paid off, that was the proper thing to do.

But it is also now proper to build the retained earnings up for the business. To build them up unnecessarily is not there. And so what's happening is he's using the business as a shield, and you're not getting it. You're not in the decision-making on what stays in the business. That's where your frustration is coming from. I think if you had more visibility on what the money that would have come home is going to, and you were in agreement on that, you wouldn't be frustrated. Okay.

Make sense? All right, that's something. Yeah, yeah, we can definitely talk about that. Yeah, I think you guys, because so what happens is this. If I'm not bringing home the profits from my business, they're going back into the business, and Sharon doesn't know what's going on because of that, Sharon gets really frustrated.

Because she wants to know. Because back in the day when she didn't know, Dave was stupid and wrecked the car. So she wants to know because back in the day when she didn't know dave was stupid and wrecked the car so she wants to know right and that's okay she has a right to know it's half hers so that's fine it's not that she's being a nag or something but as long as ever as long as the goals are being met so in other words he may have some really good reasons for redirecting some of these funds. But if he's screwing off down there and not paying off your house, then I'm with you.

No, I don't think it's that. I think he is more kind of like I feel like backtracked from the plan and he's like... I don't think he has. I think he had some stuff that didn't get done down at the business while he got this other stuff done and now he's having to correct that and catch up a little bit. You need to learn where that money's going.

I think it'll answer all your questions. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. I love you. Brett and Veronica are with us in Olympia, Washington. I see on my screen you guys are debt-free. Congratulations. Thanks, Dave. Way to on my screen you guys are debt-free. Congratulations. Thanks, Dave. Way to go. Very proud of you. How much have you paid off?

We paid off $22,000. All right. How long did this take? It took us right about a year to do. Okay. Very cool. And your range of income during that year? Our range of income for most of it was around $48,000,

and then at the very end we bumped up to $60,000 as we started to transition our jobs. Cool. What do you all do for a living? Yeah, for most of it we were in camping ministry, and then at the end we started transitioning to being government employees. Right. I was in engineering and me as a receptionist. Good.

Very cool. So what kind of debt was the $22,000? It was all student loans. Okay. Fun. So how long have you guys been out of school? About five years. Four or five years, yeah.

Okay. So what happened two years ago that put you guys on this journey that lit the fuse? Yeah, so Brett and I actually, we went through your financial piece CDs while on a road trip when we were dating and decided that our first goal was to cash flow our wedding and then immediately after that to start paying off all of our student loans and have it done by our first wedding anniversary, which we were able to do. I thought you said you've been married five years. We've been out of school five years. Oh, I said school, didn't I?

That's right. Okay. Very cool. Okay, so this is perfect. Well done, you guys. Well done. What made you decide to do this? I mean, most people your age aren't doing this.

Yeah. do this i mean most people most people your age aren't doing this yeah so growing up my parents actually went through your class when i was in high school and so i just i grew up with a mentality that that wasn't great even though we did take out some student loans uh so it's kind of just always our thought process that we would pay it off as soon as we had some money to gotcha um so you're a financial you're a financial peace baby that knew better and so it was time to light it up then okay i got you yes good for you well done proud of you how's it feel it feels great um it it was really awesome to be able to like i said meet that goal of paying it off in the first year of marriage. And then as we made our transition out of our job, it was a pretty big transition because we were actually living where we were working.

So to be able to go through it and not know that we have debt on top of this transition was really awesome. Love it. Way to go. Who were your biggest cheerleaders? We had some friends and family that were generally encouraging, but honestly we found most of our encouragement from you and listening to your show and everybody doing their debt-free screams as well as the Facebook group and the debt-free community. I love it.

Very cool. Very cool. Well, congratulations. We're very proud of you, I can tell you that. Well done, Well done. Well done. We've got a copy of Chris Hogan's book for you, Everyday Millionaires, because that's your next chapter in your story, How Ordinary People Built Extraordinary Wealth and How You Can Too.

And that's our gift to you, our number one bestseller, because we want you to be millionaires next, okay? Okay, thanks. Way to go, guys. All right, Brett and Veronicaonica olympia washington 22 000 paid off first order of business after getting married took 12 months making 48 now making 60 count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two one we're deaf-free! Ha ha ha ha!

Love it! Well done, you guys. Very, very, very well done. Well, the student loan plague that is in America has to stop. Do you agree? Everyone shake your head and say yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I see that hand. Yeah, the student loan plague has to stop. Do you agree? Everyone shake your head and say yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I see that hand. Yeah, the student loan plague has to stop. A lot of parents think their kids have to go to college to be successful.

Well, you don't. But if you want to be in certain fields, you need different sets of knowledge. And college, getting a university degree, a four-year degree, is a good thing. I don't think college is bad. I think studying stupid stuff and going into debt is bad. And I think you need to think about what you're studying, and you need to think about what you're paying for your degree, and pay cash for it.

Kids can go to college without debt. Anthony O'Neill, Ramsey Personality bestselling author, has proven that. There's a new book coming out called Debt-Free Degree, the step-by-step guide to getting your kid through college without student loans. It's on presale right now. We just put it on presale. It actually hits the street on October 7th.

If you pre-buy the book, we're going to throw in $40 worth of items extra. $19 for the book, $19.99. And we're going to throw in the e-book. We're going to throw in the How to Connect with Your Kid video and the Smart Parent event two hours of talks from Anthony O'Neill and best-selling parenting expert Meg Meeker. To pre-order a debt-free degree, just go to DaveRamsey.com or go to AnthonyO'Neill.com or call Ramsey Concierge Team at 888-22-PIECE, 888-227-3223. The way you beat the student loan crisis is two or threefold.

One is you teach enough people that they can go to college without debt and they do it. They wouldn't have debt. That would help the crisis. Would you agree? Yes. The second thing that needs to happen is Congress needs to stop the student loan program. They need to stop federally insuring student loans. We pretty well all agree that it's an epic plague on America.

It's hurting people more than it is helping people. Congress should not be in the business of hurting its citizenry instead of helping its citizenry. The student loan program was intended to be a blessing. It has turned into a plague. It's gotten completely out of control, like so many other bloated, well-intentioned, poorly executed government programs. And did you know intentions don't matter? It's actually what happens that matters. If I intend to send my wife flowers on our anniversary, do you think she cares?

I intended. Intended doesn't matter. Did you do it or not? Did it work or not? So well-intentioned programs that fail and are epic failures your intentions they don't matter we don't give a crap about your intentions you need to stop this stuff congress and you guys need to get everybody on the planet this book debt-free degree anybody that's ever gonna ever think about or be of college age should have read

this book and if you start in the seventh grade the way this book outlines we can walk you through and you definitely 100 of you out there can go to college debt-free they might not go to college you want to go to but you can get a college degree in America today debt-free. You have to choose properly. You have to work the student loan. I mean, you have to work the scholarship programs, and we'll help you with every bit of that. Anthony has got an incredible plan laid out in this book. It absolutely works. Debt-free degree.

Get it now at DaveRamsey.com, AnthonyO'Neill.com. And again, we'll ship it on the street date, October the 7th. But if you pre-buy now, we'll give you $40 in free items. So we appreciate the thousands, the tens of thousands of you that have already bought the book. Pretty much ensuring it on launch day, it will be a number one. It's a very, very hot book. People are talking about it everywhere. The numbers on it are a bit ridiculous already.

But it's a need that people have to be able to pull this off. And so we'll show you how to do it. Debt-Free Degree by Anthony O'Neill. You can go to college debt-free. Ta-da! This is the Dave Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. our scripture of the day Romans 12.10, Be devoted to one another in love.

Honor one another above yourselves. J.K. Rowling said, If you want to know what a man is like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals. Really? How he treats his inferiors. Maybe if you know what a man is like, maybe he doesn't have inferiors.

You're inferior to me, but I'm going to treat you nicely. Somehow, I'm sorry, JK, not going with you on that one. Oh, well, such is Harry Potter. All right, Josh is with us in Arizona. Hey, Josh, how are you? Good. How are you, Dave? Better than I deserve.

What's up? Well, first of all, I want that depth screen that those guys got earlier. But secondly, where we stand right now is not getting us there. My wife and I are looking at about $3,750 in bills a month, and our income is about $1,700 a month. Part of the reason for that is we were in a very comfortable lifestyle where we were, and we moved as church planters. So it was kind of one of the sacrifices we knew we were going to make.

So we set back some cash and everything, and as we've gone throughout this process, we're kind of at that critical point. We've burned through it. So you had enough cash to subsidize the difference while you planted the church, thinking that the church would be able to pay its new pastor before you ran out of money? Similar to that, yes, sir. And to add a twist to this whole story, I left my master's degree about a class early to accept a job. And where we're at now, I've recently had an offer. It's a final offer to come back and finish it now or not finish it. So

where we sit right now is a class that's going to cost about $3,100. So we've got about $9,000 set back that we have access to. We've got a couple of things that we could pay off. I could defer student loans and we could put about $800 a month back in our pocket. Um, you know, it's just kind of where we sit right now. How long has the church plant been open? Uh, we've been out here. We actually have not opened it yet. We have been where we are for about eight or nine months now.

So it's a long process. It's not something you just do overnight or any year or two. I'm familiar with church planting, but it sounds like you did not have a financial plan to go through a normal church planting process. I would say you are correct. And so we'll abandon it before it opens? That's not the plan. We are just trying to figure out what the best option is for it.

I mean, if you go back to your master's, you would move away, right? No, I would be finishing it at the location where we're at now. Oh, I see. Yes, sir. All right. But that burns up another $3,000 of money you already don't have. Yep. It would have to be in a loan.

Oh, no. Basically, where my mind's at right now, we can defer the student loans. I'd put about $500 a month back in our pocket. We have a car and a air conditioning payment. We could pay those off and that would be another $300 back in our pocket, but then we burn through the $9,000 that we have set aside. No, I would not pay off the debts and I would not borrow money. Neither one. I would sit on the cash that you have. But here's the thing. Your church plant is about to fail

if you don't get your income up. You've got to, you're bivocational. I mean, 87% of pastors in America are, so there's nothing to shame in that. But you're going to run out of money before this thing is able to pay its pastor. Aren't you? Yes, sir.

So we have to have a different plan income-wise. Are you working other than on the plan? Okay. Multiple. And that's your $1,700 a month? Yes, sir. Okay. Is your wife working?

She just is about to start a new job. Okay. What will she be making? Well, so hers is going to be commission-based, so it will be basically pay-as-go, which is mine is the same as well. Okay. Which is mine is the same as well. Okay. I think you guys have to look at your income-producing abilities and make the most possible money that you can make if you want this plant to happen. Because you're going to run out of money if you don't, and that's going to end this dream. Absolutely.

Because you're going to reach a point that you're homeless and that's different than being planting. I mean, because you're going to lose everything. If you burn through the rest of this money at your current burn rate of a couple grand a month because you didn't get your incomes up and paying off the debt doesn't solve that and going back to school sure as crud doesn't solve it. It adds to the burden. So I think you have an income crisis that you've got to solve, and your original mathematical plan did not work or was not well thought out for your church plan.

And it is not lacking in faith to have a plan. Jesus said, don't build a tower without first counting the cost, lest you get halfway up and you're unable to finish, and all who see you begin to mock you and say, this man began to build and was unable to finish. And in a sense, you're trying to build a tower here. You're trying to build a ministry, trying to build a church, and you didn't have a good plan.

So you've got to backfill this plan with income in the meantime so that you can keep this dream alive, or you've got to do a complete right turn and say, we heard God clearly to plant a church. I think our timing was off. We didn't hear him clearly on that, and so we're going to have to go work careers and get our lives straightened out because your first obligation is to your household.

You take care of your own household first. You've heard that one too, I'm sure. Yes. Yeah. So I think if I'm in your shoes, if you were, you know, if I was an elder at the church that, you know, launched you or encouraged you to do this or the denomination that encouraged you to do this or whoever was, you know, is around you in your spiritual support team,

I would give you this very hands-on, on-the-street kind of advice, and that is get more jobs, better jobs, both of you, and make more money so you can keep trying this. And if you do that, and you can quickly save up $3,000, and you want to spend $3,000, that new money coming in on finishing this master's, that's fine. But you have too many competing goals right now. Eating, master's degrees, and planning a church.

These three goals are competing with each other. And you're not funding even one of them yet with your income. So you've just got to get your income up, sir. We'll be your biggest cheerleader. We want you to win. So if we can help, you call me back any time. Evan is with us in Florida. Evan, right quick for our run out of time, what's your question?

Hey, Dave, thanks for taking my call. Sure. I just wanted to ask, my wife and I recently, we purchased our first home back in September. We have a unique situation with our mortgage. It was owned by her mother. It was actually being paid from her older brother back to the mom, and we purchased the home off of her brother. So it was her brother's house, and he was just paying his mom back. So we basically picked up the remainder of what we owe mom,

and we went to a bank to get the financing for the other half. So we have a split mortgage between the bank and our mother-in-law. I would refinance that and pay off your mother-in-law. Okay, so refinance the remainder with the bank. Get a new first mortgage on a 15-year fixed, pay off the bank, and pay off your mother-in-law. I do not want to owe my mother-in-law under any circumstances. I hope that helps you. That puts us out of the Dave Ramsey Show and the books.

Our thanks to James Childs, our producer, Kelly Daniel, our associate producer and phone screener. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer and phone screener for The Dave Ramsey Show. If you would like to do your debt-free scream live on the show, make sure you visit DaveRamsey.com slash show and register. We would love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story.