The Ramsey Show - App - The Truth About Student Loan Deferment (Hour 1)

Episode Date: August 14, 2018

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is the Dave Ramsey Show, where your money and your life are the focus. Sitting in for Dave Ramsey, I am Chris Hogan, and we're so excited to be here with you. America, this is your show. So we want to hear from you. So give us a call at 888-825-5225. Again, the number to call is 888-825-5225. Again, the number to call is 888-825-5225. I'm joined in studio today by a special guest. I've got Mr. Anthony O'Neill here.

Chris Hogan. Good to see you, buddy. Man, the voice for America. It's an honor to be in the studio with you, sir. Listen to him. Well, listen, we're excited to take your calls. And listen, we're going to the phones because that's what we do. First up, I've got Alex from San Francisco.

Alex, how are you today? Hi, I'm doing all right. Thank you. Yes. Well, what can we do for you? Yes, I had a question about paying off debt versus putting money in for retirement. My wife and I are about 30 years old, and we have $275,000 combined between us in student debt.

That's our only debt, and we make about $140,000 a year. We're wondering, should we aggressively pay off the debt? We've read the Total Money Makeover book and put nothing into retirement, or should we still put some into retirement? Okay. Alex, what... 403B and Roth IRA. Okay Okay. Alex, what's your age? I'm 29. My wife is 30. Okay. And with this, this is a large amount of student loan debt.

What kind of degrees did you all get? Yes, I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist, and she is an occupational therapist in the school district. Okay. Is this undergrad degrees or master's as well? Master's. Okay. For both of you?

Mm-hmm. Okay. All right. That's a large amount of debt. Anthony, as we look at this and we talk to people with the student loan crisis right now, what advice would you give to Alex? The very first thing, I'm going to stick with the debt part, and then I'm going to let you, Hogan, hit the retirement part.

I'm going to say stick with the baby steps. Chris, attack the debt, attack it. You're making good money. So I'm saying within a matter of two to three years, you could be out of debt. Now, it's going to require some sacrifices. It's going to require you eating on beans and rice. It's going to require some things that's going to be uncomfortable for the next two to three years. But Alex, you're 29. Your wife is 30. By the time you turn my age, 34, 35 years old, Chris, they got a bright future. Then they can jump into your book, The Retire and Inspire, and really start aggressively now preparing for the retirement because it's not too late. Alex, are you and your wife on the same page?

Does she want to attack debt or what is she wanting to do? Yes, we're both wanting to attack the debt very aggressively um she actually had to get me a little bit more on board um but uh but i'm but i'm on board and we just didn't know if uh yeah we should just put both throttle everything into the debts or uh or put in some retirement as well. Right, right. And I understand where you're coming from. But again, I'm going to agree with Anthony. Attacking the debt to me is going to be the big part. That $275,000, I'm sure you all have some multiple levels of loans, different sizes. List those things out, smallest to biggest, and attack it.

Now, here's the reason behind this, Alex, because getting out of debt, it's not about math. It's about momentum. And in dealing with larger sizes, it is going to take a whole lot of chopping at it before you're able to kind of see the progress. But I'm going to tell you something. Your income level, the good thing is, is you all are self-employed. So what we have to do is start thinking here a little bit bigger and let's start to go outside of the norm. Let's open up, have

some extra office hours. You all commit to, hey, what are we going to go after and do more of this year and send all of that toward the debt. You want to keep a lifestyle in check. You know, the only time you see a restaurant should see as you drive by it and get serious. And make sure you're cheering each other on. One thing I'm seeing across the country, Hogan, when I'm traveling, going into colleges and speaking to young millennials, a lot of them feel as this, Hogan,

that they should just defer these. Just keep deferring them and never pay them back. And start investing into the retirement. Start saving for a home. But not even really understanding that what Alex is talking about, he represents a good portion of America. And I love what you're saying. Attack it.

Build that momentum. Get excited. Get aggressive because your future is so bright ahead of time. Do not, you guys, listen to us now. Do not defer these any more longer. Do not consolidate these loans. Just line them up smallest to largest and attack them with everything that you have

and sacrifice now so that tomorrow you can have a bright future. That's a good point. And the word deferment, you all, when you hear that, essentially all you're doing is delaying the inevitable. There you go. You're still going to have to deal with it, but it could be, Anthony,

accruing penalties and interest as you go. So again, leave them like they are, lay them out, look at them. I know those it could be, Anthony, accruing penalties and interest as you go. So again, leave them like they are, lay them out, look at them. I know those are big amounts, Alex. But again, being focused, walking through the process, you all aligning together, I'm telling you, you can make a difference in your financial future. Once you attack that debt, I want you to build up an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses, and then you can start to invest. You're 29 years old. You've got time.

Stay motivated. All right, we're staying on the phones. We've got DeMarcus in Columbus. How are you, sir? I'm doing great. How y'all doing? Oh, we're hanging in there, my friend. How can we help you?

I have $250,000 in the bank. I've been sitting there, I think, for the past six or seven years, and I'm thinking about investing there. I think, for the past six or seven years. And I'm thinking about investing there where I'm very safe with my money. I save wherever I'm safe with it. So I'm thinking about putting $150,000 into a CD for three years at paying 3%. I'm thinking about paying off my truck. I got a $27,000 left on my truck. And I just got married a year ago we have four kids all together i don't have no retirement uh plan or no saving going for retirement everything is in my checking account and like i said i don't spend a lot so but now that i'm married i'm thinking about investing

that money because i'm not making no money there so what's my what do i need to do okay well i i like number one you you have a good habit of saving. That's a big deal. That's a big chunk of money sitting there. But I'm going to tell you something, Demarcus. Your money is being lazy. Yeah. Your money is sitting up in a hammock.

You're working hard. Your money is just chilling. And so what I want you to do is let's put it to work. And what I mean by that is let's look at look at investing some of that i like the idea of paying off the truck getting that thing out of your life because how much is your truck payment right now uh 555 all right so we pay that thing off that's 555 dollars now that's not leaving you but i want to encourage you to do this i want you to get connected with a smart investor pro these are investment professionals that can guide you on how to invest that money.

Here's my point. Putting that money into a CD, your bank's going to love you and I'm sure they're calling you to try to get you to do something with it because they see it sitting there. But that 3% that they're going to put it in, that money's not working for you. Inflation hovers between 2.5% to

3%. So that money is being lazy. It's shrinking while it's sitting in the bank account. Get connected with a SmartVestor Pro. You can go to DaveRamsey.com or ChrisHogan360.com. Click on the Dream Team button. Put your information in. Find an investment professional. And then you can start to walk through and be able to really help yourself by growing your money.

You know, DeMarcus, I would even recommend that, too. Once you do call one of our SmartVest investor pros, man, ask them for some information on the Roth IRA. You know, hey, can you explain to me a little bit about this option? Because you're right, man. Compound interest is going to be your best friend right now. Absolutely. The best way to grow money is time and compound interest, America.

Don't let your money be lazy. I want you to make it work just like you do. You're listening to The dave ramsey show Let me tell you a story about two families that are very much alike in a lot of ways. Both families have two working parents and a couple of young kids. Each has debt and has struggled to make ends meet, but they're starting to make headway with their budgets and smarter decisions with money. They have dreams and plans, and the only real difference is that one family has the right amount of term life insurance and the other doesn't. Big difference. If one of the parents die, and that does happen. Their well-being would be destroyed.

Paying for the mortgage, utilities, food, and other bills would be impossible, let alone saving for education or retirement. That's why every day I talk relentlessly about getting term life insurance. Just go to ZanderInsurance.com or call 800-356-4282 and see how inexpensive it really is. Be the family that takes those deliberate steps to be different and responsible. It really does make you the hero of your story, and it puts you on course for better things ahead. Hello, America.

You are listening to The Dave Ramsey Show, and we're here for you. We want to hear from you. Kelly's got the callers lining up, and we love it. We're excited to talk to each of you. If you've got a question about money, life, career, give us a call. The number to call is 888-825-5225. Again, that number is 888-825-5225. Or you can also send us a question via social at at Ramsey show.

We're here for you. All right, next up, we're going to keep going. I've got Anthony O'Neill in studio with me and we got Brie up in Indianapolis. Brie, how are you? I'm good. How are you? We are great. How can we help you?

All right. So we have been thinking about moving. So we have a new house. It's five years old on 10 acres. We have $367,000 invested in the property. We currently owe about $285,000. But the housing market is, like, booming. And a realtor appraised our house at $485,000 to $500,000. So I guess our question is, is it a wise idea to move and cash flow another house that is

a little older that may need some TLC? Or should we stay at our current home since it's new and continue our plan to pay it off in 15 years? Okay. Now, what's motivating this? Is it purely the money? I guess the thought of being debt-free at 28. Okay.

All right. That was my next question. So 28 years old, what's your household income? We're making about $88,000 jointly. Okay. And do you all owe on anything else outside of this home? No, just our mortgage. Okay.

And have you built up an emergency fund? Yes. And we both are investing for retirement. I like you. Y'all are on the path. You're on the path. But as you look at this, let's think about this a second. What's the cons against selling this house?

I guess our biggest con is location um kind of the county that we're in the property taxes are really high but it's a great location we're right next to town um and i guess the other con is is we're still going to have 15 years of payments um but the con of moving is we're kind of way out in the sticks, and it's a house that was built in 1912. So we could run into some issues. But then again, if we cash flow the whole place, we'll have money to make improvements if we needed to. So I guess I just don't know what's why.

Because we were first-time homebuyersyers and we built in our 20s. And so now it's like, well, we're almost like that for you. Should we just go for it or not? Okay. All right. And what's your husband's opinion on this? He is stuck where I am. We found another property with actually more acreage.

We currently have 10, and the property we're looking at has 15 acres, and they're asking $190,000 for it. Okay. And that's just land, or does it have a house on it as well? It has a house, too. Yeah. It has a 1,700-square-foot house that's been completely remodeled. Okay. And so looking at this, Anthony, as you hear this, what's your thought?

Oh, man. You know, to be honest, Hoganogan i'm okay with both right now you know they're they're they're in a good place they're 28 years old debt free from outside of their mortgage um but if they have a heart's desire to be debt free um i would say sell the house i mean but there's no need to there's no they're not forced from any situation but i mean if you're 28 you're passionate about being debt free you're getting more acres you're getting a little bit older house go that route but again you have a beautiful home right now that is worth a lot of money in the future it could be worth a lot more money um man if i was in their shoes hogan i'm me personally i would probably try and pay

this house this house off yeah and sit yeah i to me, I'm hearing, it sounds like they're looking for the next thing to do. Yeah. You know, right now they're saying people are saying that it's worth $485,000 to $500,000. Right. And they owe $285,000 on it. Well, we've got to do the numbers. So I would say get connected with a real estate ELP. Yeah.

Let's understand the comps in your area. What are some legitimate sales of homes like yours? And then start to really look at those numbers because you're going to have expenses. You're going to have moving expenses. You're going to have the relocation. If you're moving too far out, the school district changes. I just think moves like this require us to think it through. I wouldn't do it just solely based on the math of it, because not owing anything else, you and I know they could attack this thing and get it out of their life long before 15 years.

Go ahead. No, no, no. I was going to say you're teaching good here, Hogan. But I just wanted to say, man, this is what millennials need to be doing. They're thinking about what's next. And it really goes back to even like with your upcoming book. You know, what are millionaires doing? They're thinking about the future.

And just to see this young lady coming out and her husband saying, hey, we want to be young. We want to be debt free. We're already investing in retirement. We want to be wealthy. This is just, man, I want to encourage all millennials listening. Start thinking. Yeah. No, I think I think you're absolutely right.

The thought process. And then I'd say take it a step further. Let's do some action. Do some homework. Let's start to look at this. And maybe you guys are going to arrive at a decision in the next four to six months. I'm with you. I think you could stay put and attack this thing and pay it off.

But then you have to be aware. If we're going to buy an older home, the upkeep, we're going to be able to cash flow it. Are you going to be happy with it, though? So, Bree, you and your husband stay connected. Keep walking through the process. Look at it do your homework and be prepared and brie i want to encourage you if you stay home you and you all pay this off you are halfway to being a millionaire i just had to call that out if that house is worth that much money you halfway there and you're not even 30 years old yet that's exactly right let's go let's stay on the phones people if you've got

a question we want to hear from you call us us. That number is 888-825-5225. Again, that's 888-825-5225. Next up, we have Chelsea on the line. Chelsea, how are you? I'm good. How are you? We're doing good. How can we help you today?

Well, I just recently got out of a 10-year relationship, and during the course of that relationship, it was kind of financially abusive. I wasn't allowed to work for the first few years, and during that time, I wasn't allowed to work. My significant other was not responsible with money, and I now have a judgment against me from an old landlord and he was working under the table so they were not able to find him so that went on me and it's now on my credit history and I just don't know what to do and how to deal with this I've got two kids and I'm trying to learn how to do this on my own now yes Yes. My goodness. I am so sorry you've had to walk through that. That has to be not only the emotional drain, but now the financial side. That's a big weight.

How old are your kids? Nine and seven. Okay. All right. And are you all out on your own now? Yes. Yeah, we've moved out. Yeah.

Yeah. And what's your income right now where you're working? I make around $22,000 a year. Okay. All right. And are you working full time? Yes. Okay.

And are you having to take care of child care or do you have family near? I have to pay child care. Okay. All right. And to take care of child care, or do you have family near? I have to pay child care. Okay. All right. And that is not cheap, is it? No. Fortunately, I've had some friends willing to help me out over this past summer, and with school starting soon, it's not going to be too much.

Right. Right. But walking through this, outside of the rent, was there anything else you all held any kind of credit jointly? Vehicles, credit cards or anything? No. I mean, I have some bad credit from like utilities that were in my name and things like that. But without this judgment, I only have maybe about $3,000 in debt, and most of it's medical. Okay, so you said most of it.

What else is it outside of the medical? Like past utilities from old houses that were paid and things like that. And so the situation with the landlord, tell me about this. What is it? Is it back rent? What is he coming after you for it's it's back rent and um i guess damages they said and uh you know coming in and cleaning the house after we moved out you know redoing the carpets and painting the walls and that sort of thing and um the total that it

came to was over seven thousand,000. Ah, okay. Yeah. All right. Listen, Chelsea, hang tight. We're going to go to break, and we're going to come back. We're going to dig into this. Because right now, she's battling against a landlord coming out of an unhealthy relationship. Mom of two, single mom, trying to get things done, trying to do things the right way.

We're going to walk her through this because she's not alone. There's a lot of people in that kind of situation. And the right guidance with the right attitude, because Chelsea, you're tough. I hear it in your voice, and we can't wait to talk to you. You're listening to The Dave Ramsey Show. Are high health care costs getting you down? Are you confused trying to navigate your options? Do you wish you could find an affordable, biblical solution to your health care costs?

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35 years, and our members have shared over $2.5 billion in medical bills. To learn more, visit chministries.org. That's chministries.org. Christian Healthcare Ministries is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. chministries.org. Hello, America. You are listening to The Dave Ramsey Show. I'm joined in studio today with Anthony O'Neill. But before we went to break, we were talking with Chelsea. Chelsea is a single mom of two coming out of a bad relationship. She's standing on her own two feet doing what she needs to do for her 9-year-old and 7-year-old children.

And she's trying to walk through and figure out the next steps. And so, Chelsea, as you're powering through this, remind us again, do you have family near you at all? Okay, we may have lost her. But at any rate, you know, walking through Chelsea's situation, she is dealing with a landlord, dealing with a relationship that went south. But we were talking, Anthony, at the break and really looking at ideas for her to be able to increase income. Yeah, the very first thing that I noticed on the phone call is we've got to get her income increased. We've got to get her shovel much bigger. I understand she's working full time right now, but we need to figure out what can she do on the side.

What is a side hobby to generate another $ to 20 000 a year because for her to deal with you know her landlord and even just to be a have a solid more solid future for her and her children moving forward she needs to get the income up to at least 40 to 50 000 which is the average around america right now for the household so that's what i would recommend uh chelsea and i and i hear i hear you're on the line now. So do you have any idea of anything you could do extra on the side, Chelsea? Right now I'm looking to get a job in the evenings during the weeks that my ex has the kids. Okay. Okay.

But that's about it. That's all I've come up with. That's cool. Cool. Any extra hobbies you actually enjoy doing like maybe babysitting maybe doing care any extra hobbies that you actually enjoy doing

I used to be a seamstress there's a lot of great business opportunities to where you can actually work for yourself and work every single day when you get home for that so I would recommend checking out one of our good friends Christ Christy Wright, and she's teaching ladies how to start a small business from home. And I think a seamstress could work out for you and could lead into other opportunities.

But, you know, Hogan, if we increase the income, we still have the landowner problem here. Yeah, you do. And then looking at this also, Chelsea, I want to encourage you, update your resume. Let your friends know that you're looking. Let them kind of be eyes and ears for you out there with other businesses or opportunities. So many job opportunities aren't always advertised, but it's based on who you know. But dealing with this landlord, were you on the lease for this place you were renting? I was.

Okay. All right. And so being on the lease, you know, the thing about the damages, I don't understand because you have a security deposit. Did you all put one of those down? We did. Yes. And how much was your security deposit? It was $650.

Okay. The same amount as the rent. Okay. And of that, did they keep it all? Yes. Okay. And did they ever send you a letter detailing the damages that they saw? They did, and that's where I was confused because according to their letter, the total came up to like $3,500.

My goodness. But when it went to court, and I couldn't go fight it because of weather. But anyway, it looked like they had just doubled everything. And that's what they then sued me for. Okay. And what happened after they went to court? They started garnishing my wages at an old job I had. Okay.

Um, that store closed and I got my job I have now and they've just haven't pursued it. Okay. Did you ever have any kind of communication with this landlord? I did. Okay. Yeah. How did that go? They were not good people.

They were what you would call a slumlord. Okay. All right. And was this, do they have multiple properties or do they just have a handful? They have multiple properties. All right. And so this is, you know, the scenario with this, Chelsea, is A, getting back to basics, you regrouping, coming out of that tough relationship, and now figuring out, all right, brainstorming

ways to be able to get extra income coming in for you and your children. But at the same time, reaching out to friends to figure out what are other jobs that may be out there. But it may be time for you if they pursue this again, you may have to connect with an attorney. Now, all the law firms and every kind of area you live in, every law firm or legal office has what's called pro bono. This is work that they do for free, a set number of hours that they will donate to help people. And so, again, reaching out to your network, being able to find out, hey, do they have someone that you can meet with to get some guidance? Because this is one of those issues from a legal standpoint. We can't turn a blind eye to it, but you're going to have to defend yourself against these people that are being less than honest and upfront about where you are.

So I wish you well. We want to send you Financial Peace University. That's a nine-week course that we have to be able to help people walk through and understand how to take back control of their money. Chelsea, thank you for taking the time to call us. It was good to speak with you. Next up on the phone, we have Nicole in Washington, D.C. Nicole, how can we help you?

Hi, how are you? Oh, I'm focused and not finished, young lady. How are you? Great. I'm so happy that you accepted my call. I'm calling today because I'm in debt, and I'm trying to figure out a way to get out of debt. I have been listening to the show for about four weeks now.

I did save up the $1,000 in the fund so I could start tackling this snowball, but I just don't know how to do it. I just have bills and it's really tight right now. Nicole, welcome to the family. Let me say that. This is Anthony, and I hear it in your heart that you're excited about getting through baby step number one. We're excited for you.

And number two, so let's break this down a little bit. What is your income right now? My income is $82,000. Okay, $82,000 a year. And what is your total amount of debt right now? $82,000. Okay, $82,000 a year. And what is your total amount of debt right now? $71,600. Okay, $71,600. Does that include a mortgage or a house?

Yes, it includes a mortgage. So your mortgage is inside of that $71,000? No, my mortgage is $119,000 that I owe on my own. Okay, okay, okay. Cool, cool, cool. Well, Nicole, let me say this. You're not in a bad situation right now. You do have debt.

So this is what I want you to do. One night, because I heard you say it's kind of stressful a little bit. One night, what I want you to do, tonight or tomorrow night or even this weekend, I want you to order some pizza, order something that you like, and I want you to put all your debt together and just line it up smallest to largest. It's going to be overwhelming. You're going to see a lot of different things, but you have to see this for yourself. Put all the sheets of paper out in your living room, and you just line it up and look at it.

That's the very first thing what I want you to do, see it. Then after that, just get encouraged. You're about to attack all of this. But what we teach on Babysit number two, once you line up from small to largest, make all the minimum payments and then just start adding any extra income to the very

first one. So this means you're going to need to stop going out to eat a lot and figure out where you can make some changes at so you can start aggressively attacking this debt. Okay. Actually, I was in a divorce.

I'm a divorcee right now, and when I did get the divorce, I had a lot of issues. My credit got messed up, and I had to borrow from my TSP. Right now, I'm paying the TSP back, and I'm only contributing 5% because I have to pay this TSP loan. Should I stop my contributions? I'm 48 years old, and I have been in the federal government for 31 years. So my concern is, you know, by me being single now, I want to be fine when I retire. So should I cut out the 5% altogether? Or what should I do with that? Right, right. Well, I would say this again, Anthony just said, list your debts out smallest to biggest to be able to attack the debt snowball.

But as far as the investing, if you're going to be gazelle intense and I want you to be, I would pause that investing to be able to get focused on paying back that loan. Because if you leave or lose that job, now you're going to be faced with penalties and other fees. So we've got to start where first things are first. And I think pausing your investing to be able to redirect that money is definitely the way to go, Nicole. Again, taking a deep breath. You're divorced. Life is on your own now for now. But taking a deep breath to understand what can I control? Well, you can control your attitude, your outlook, and your responses. And I think you can do this. It's just one step at a time. Remember,

where you are right now doesn't have to be where you end up unless you stop. You're listening to The Dave Ramsey Show. Hello, America. You are listening to The Dave Ramsey Show. I am Chris Hogan, filling in for Dave. But I'm also joined in studio by Anthony O'Neill. And we are just excited. Anthony and I get a chance to do a couple of events this year together. We are going to be in Charlotte, North Carolina on September 20th.

We will be at Hickory Grove Baptist Church walking people through the baby steps. It's a smart money event. And the title of the event is Live More, Worry Less. And so I'm excited for this event, Anthony. Man, I'm so excited about it, Chris Hogan. Every time you and I get on the stage together, it's just fun. But what I love about it is not only is it fun, but people are walking away determined to change their lives. Yes.

And I even love just seeing how we're starting to see the younger millennial generation coming in and learning everything from how to get out of debt, how to start saving for my future, how to start investing, how to start thinking for my college, my kids' college in the future. And they got newborns. So I want to recommend everyone, if you're in the Charlotte, North Carolina area or surrounding cities like my home city, Fayetteville, North Carolina, come on up and check us out, man, because I'm telling you right now, the voice for retirement, the voice for millionaire and the voice for young people. And we're just going to have a good time. We are going to have fun.

So if you're close, please come by again. We will be there on September 20th. Also, speaking of fun, I'd have to tell you, Anthony, working on this new book,

the opportunity to be able to launch this thing and everyday millionaires, how ordinary people built extraordinary wealth and how you can too. This is my second book. It is in presale. You have an incredible opportunity to order this right now for $20, and you're going to get $50 in bonus material. You're going to get the audio book. You're going to get the e-book. You're going to get two bonus video lessons, one for me talking about how to retire inspired, and then Dave's talking about how it's okay to build wealth. And so you have an opportunity to be able to get this now, this pre-order, by either

going to ChrisHogan360.com or going over to DaveRamsey.com. This, again, with this book, Anthony, being able to study, it's the largest research study that's ever been done on millionaires ever. Yeah. We studied over 10,000 of them. And so I am excited for people to not only hear the stories, but to get the facts, but to also understand the American dream is still alive in America today. And so I want to let you all know about that.

And you have a great opportunity to really plug in, as well as there's a bundle offer. Some people are wanting, they're excited about the book, and that's great. But you can get both. You can get Financial Peace University as well as the book right now in this bundle that we're doing, and it's a great opportunity for you to get this, to get plugged in. And listen, right now you can get this all together, the book as well as Financial Peace University, for $129. And get this, you're still going to get the $50 in bonus items along with that. It's a great opportunity to not only hear the truth about what's going on, but to also

get started. It's so very important. And we're going back to the phones because that's what we do and we want to hear from you. We've got Rose on the line in Portland, Oregon. Rose, what's your question for Anthony? So I'm a college student. I've been going to college for two years now.

And so far I've been paying out of pocket. So I don't have any student debt. However, I'm going to school for nursing. So I'm getting up to where I start the nursing program. And apparently you can't work through it. Like everyone says, you just won't get through it if you work. So my question is, is getting a student loan acceptable, I guess, and trying to stay out of debt, if that makes sense.

Is it acceptable to the world, Rose? Absolutely. Is it acceptable to you and to what we want to do? Absolutely not. One thing I want to just debunk right now that I know several people who have gone to nurse school while working. And yes, it did take them a little bit longer, but they got through it 100 percent debt free. So the normal person is going to take out student loans and live off of that, accumulate this debt and get into it. But then they're going to be in debt for the next 15 to 25 years.

So what I want to recommend to you, Rose, is to keep your vision, keep your dream, but do what normal people do not do, which is get through it debt free. And it will require you to take a little bit more, maybe like a more, I think on average, about a year and a half to two years, Hogan. But it's like to me, I'd rather it take me a year and a half, two years longer than to be into debt for the next 15 to 25 years, Rose. That's what I would recommend. So, no, do

not take out a student loan. Be different. And Rose, you know, as you're thinking about this, I can hear the wheels spinning. It's so easy to sign on those dotted lines, and so many people struggle as they sign the payment checks out of their checkbook. And so what we don't want to do is try to swap signatures.

What we need to do is really start to think through. And so looking at this, like how long does it take people to get through the nursing program? Well, just the program itself, it's two years. Okay. All right. And with that, what is the cost of that? So I go to community college, so it's about $15,000. Okay. All right.

And after you do the community college, what will be the next step in your education process? The way it's set up up here is that I'm an RN once I pass the board exam. So I can work as an RN in a hospital. And to get my bachelor's degree, you do a bridge program at any four-year university. And apparently a lot of hospitals will pay for that. So you don't have to pay for that bridge program, which is the hope, the goal. Absolutely. Okay.

So in this process, I mean, you've done kind of some of the research. I do. I'm agreeing with Anthony. I want you to do the uncommon thing, right? I want you to think about this differently because it's not just a matter of getting into the program. It's getting out and working and being able to move forward. So what is that?

And even if it takes you a little bit longer, you know, slow down. You're going to do it. I promise you it's going to feel different. We're not writing out a $1,500 payment each and every month. And, Anthony, it's funny that we're talking about this issue because I ran across an article, and here's the article. It says it looks like it's not just crushing student loan debt holding millennials back anymore. It's also their aging parents.

You know, reading this article, you not only have millennials that are trying to get launched and out right on their own, but now they also have parents that may be aging. And so now you've got student loan debt. You've got young people trying to get their start and you've got parents are aging. Millennials are being put in a tough spot. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel it myself.

You know, I'm in that bracket as well. I'm not worried about student loan debt. Thank God I'm 100 percent debt free. But I am watching my parents get older and I am having to help and serve them and help them out with things financially as well. And I can only imagine the stress I will be in right now if I have to worry about about debt, my career and my parents, which is going to cause more stress. So this is why I'm so adamant about teaching young people, millennials, you'll attack all of your debt right now. Get that emergency funds and start preparing for the future, because it's not a matter of if you get older. It's not a matter of if you're going to have some issues come up.

It's just a matter of when and how soon they come. Listen to this. Some of the stats in this article blew me away. It says currently there are 6.2 million millennials and counting that are acting as caregivers for a parent, in-law or grandparent. 6.2 million. And then it says the average cost of elder care can range from 18,000 a year for adult daycare to 91,000 a year for a private room in a nursing home. We're talking large amounts of money.

And Anthony, they call it the sandwich generation because you've got young people that, you know, they got typically you have parents that are trying to get millennials right out and getting them going. But then you have their parents that are aging. And so they're sandwiched in between both of those. And here's the thing, Hogan. Not only are they worrying about their debt as well, but they're also worrying about the parents' debt,

the bill collectors from the parents. So it's just a lot of, a lot of, a lot of stress at this time. And that's just sad to hear 6.2 million millennials are worried about their parents,

which I pray one day that after reading your book and getting my millions here soon, that I will be able to have less stress here soon, that I will be able to have less stress on my, my kids. I'll be able to cover financially. My stuff put me into a nice home, put me and my wife into a nice home so we can be chilling at a nice older home because I want to make sure that my kids could just live well. Well, and it's one of those things, as you look at it, you don't want to pass this legacy on. Exactly. Right. They don't want debt to be a legacy that you're pushing out.

What you want to do is to be able to have knowledge, you know, and I think making sacrifices now, really starting to make decisions and really looking at where you are and to decide what is it we want to push forward is the way to go. And so this is something we need to wake up to America. We need to be aware. Anthony, as we get ready to wrap up, tell people what you have going on and where they can find you. America, I got a lot going on right now.

Excited to be working on some new stuff. But I'm excited. You can find out more information about me at anthonyoneal.com. But where you can really hear my voice is at anthonyoneal on Instagram. Fantastic. Well, listen, everyone, thank you for taking the time to listen. Thanks, James Childs, assistant producer Kelly Daniel, and of course, you, America.

This has been The Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, guys, this is James Childs, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. I'm excited to announce that we're now carried on 600 radio stations across the country. To find one near you, head to DaveRamsey.com slash show.