The Ramsey Show - App - The Underwhelming Math Behind Credit Card Points (Hour 3)

Episode Date: January 25, 2023

George Kamel & Kristina Ellis answer your questions and discuss: Using credit card points to pay off a mortgage, Update on student loan provision in the Secure Act 2.0, Selling a truck to pay off the house, Knowing which credit card to pay off first. Dealing with overdrafts. Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Pod's moving and storage studio, it's The Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money. I'm your host, George Campbell, joined this hour by bestselling author Christina Ellis, and it's a free call at 888-825-5225. If you need some help, you're at a crossroads, you need a second or third opinion, maybe you just need some confidence that what you're doing is the right thing. Maybe you need someone to talk you off the ledge of a terrible decision. That's one of my favorite things to do, is to help you avoid some stupid tax. We are here for you, America. And Carl is kicking us off in Washington, D.C. Carl, welcome to the show.

How are you doing? I'm doing great. Thank you. Awesome. How can we help today? Well, I have a question. I'm working on paying off my house right now. And one of the things I was considering doing, I have on my credit card a little bit over 2 million points,

so somewhere around $23,000 that I could get cash. They could send me a check. So I was thinking about, yeah, I was thinking about cashing that in and then putting that towards the principal of my house. So what do you guys think about that? I think it's a great plan. I mean, if you already have the points, what did it take you to get 2 million points? I'm just curious. Well, it took me a long time. Is this a lifetime of credit card spending to get 2 million points? Probably about, I don't know, 15 years or something like that. Wow. Do you have any debt right now, other than the house? Not really. Not really?

Uh-oh. What do you mean, not really, Carl? You can't leave us hanging like that. I don't. I have a credit card that I pay off every month. Okay. And alimony. That's about it.

Okay. So, what does this conversion look like to dollars? Is there any... I think it's 20 for me. I want to say it's like 20 for any... Sorry, speak directly into your phone, Carl. We're having a hard time hearing you. Yes, no problem. About $23,000, $22,000, something in that range. Absolutely.

What's left on the mortgage? $426,000. And do you have a fully funded emergency fund? Yes. Okay. Okay. Yeah. What's your household income? It's definitely 60 years.

It's not bad. It's 60 years. Okay. So you're making over $100,000. What's your goal for paying off this mortgage? How many more years? I want to pay it off in five years. Love it. So that means we need to start attacking this thing. I mean, that's most of your income

going towards it. So I pay every month extra. So I put, you know, I'm starting to put a thousand dollars a month extra on the principal. And any extra money I get, my plan is just to put it on the house. Cool. Well, I would definitely, I would cash out of all those points. I mean, truthfully, I would stop playing their game. I think you can do way better just saving this money yourself, putting it in a high-yield savings account at 4% and using that money to pay off the mortgage or just using every future paycheck and throwing at it as soon as you get it. What are you saying? Take the money from the credit card and put it in a high yield savings account? I'm saying use the cash out on the credit card points,

but going forward, I would just use your income instead of playing the credit card game. Have you ever thought about what the difference would be if you just cut up the cards and went, hey, how much could Carl put onto this mortgage without trying to rack up the points to eventually use 15 years down the line.

Yes, yes, yes. No, you're absolutely right. The only thing is, the only reason why, the only thing I use my credit card is I actually pay them off every month. So it's never really like I'm paying interest on the credit card. What are you using the credit card for? Business. Okay. Are you a business owner? Are you self-employed? Yes. Yes, yes, I am. So what kind of expenses are you putting on the card? Anything, all the expenses, as much as I can through my business, I'll put on the card.

And are you budgeting pretty well with your business? Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah, we budget very well, yes. Hey, Carl, I'm wondering, how's your retirement savings looking? Well, I'm kind of starting over. So my retirement right now is as fully funded as I can get it at this point. What are you using for a retirement account? Well, I have my retirement plan. Speak directly over the phone, Carl. Sorry, we're losing you again. Yeah, no problem. I have a retirement plan through work, and then I have my regular brokerage account, and then I have, yeah, my 401k. And how much do you have total saved right now?

I'd rather not say, but I know it sounds crazy, but it's... Are you a millionaire? It's not enough for me to retire, though. I still got a lot to go. Okay. But I can only put so much. Everything I can put right now, I can only put in a brokerage account because I don't qualify for a Roth IRA. Have you looked into a solo 401k or a SEP IRA?

We've looked into those. Because those have higher contribution limits that could help you catch up quickly if you're self-employed. Right. So I think the issue is really the way my structure is set up. I really can't do that. Okay. I might still get in touch with a SmartVest, Carl, at our website, ramsaysolutions.com. They can walk you through what your retirement options are. The key here is I want you taking advantage of tax advantage accounts first before using the brokerage account so that you can have the most money as possible in retirement. And part of that plan is awesome. You're wanting a paid for house. And by my math, if you can put 85K a year towards that mortgage, you'll have this thing paid off. And that 23K is only going to help speed that along. But I just challenge you. I just wonder if you cut up the card and you just used a debit card for your business, for your personal, how much more progress you could be making. This is a test. If you're willing to do it, call me back and let me know how it went. I just have a dark curiosity. Well, Carl, hang on the line. We're going to gift you Financial

Peace University because you said with retirement savings, you're not where you want to be. You need a new plan. So this is that plan. And part of that plan is cutting up the credit cards. A lot of times when we're spending on cards, you spend more money and you're not as tight in the budget. And I know you said you're great with a budget, but I just challenge you to try out the plan. Like George said, give it a shot. See if it works. You said you're starting fresh. That's the best time to kind of go, hey, you know what?

Let's try something new. Let's try something different. So hang on the line. Austin will get that for you. And I did some fun math for Carl. He said he's got two million credit card points, which in my mind, I'm like, that feels like you're a rich person. And he said it took 15 years of spending to get that $23,000 in cash. That's 1500 bucks a year.

Now, I don't know about you, but I think most people, especially business owners, could save up more than 1500 a year and pay themselves that cash back with intentional spending, being on a budget, being diligent. And so that is my challenge to all of you out there. Add up how much you actually got. Not points. What does that actually amount to? Not a trip to Boise. What is the dollar amount you're actually getting for all of the spending and playing the credit card company's game and going, well, it's 5% on restaurants this month, so I'm going to go eat out more. That doesn't make sense, chief. That's not actually making you any money. You're spending more and they like that. And so that is my challenge to all of you. Cut up the card for

six months. Just use your debit card and then call the show and let us know your findings. Maybe I'm wrong. It's a good word. I'm happy to be proven wrong, but I just really want to know what it's like when you spend your money and how you make decisions differently due to that. More of your calls coming up. 888-825-5225. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll see you next time. welcome back to the Ramsey show hey if you're a new listener and you want to dive deeper into the Ramsey plan and the baby steps we've created a great tool for you at ramseysolutions.com. Just click on the Get Started button, and we'll help you figure out the best next step for your financial journey based on exactly where you are today. Just go to ramseysolutions.com and click on Get Started. All right, Christina, so people may have heard about this in the news. It's the Secure 2.0 bill. And there's some

interesting things in there. And we're going to keep covering those things on the show to update you all on what's included. But here's an interesting one that has to do with student loans and investing. Biden's new retirement law means you may not have to choose between paying off student debt and saving for the future. It says Biden recently signed into law a new package of retirement provisions. One will allow employers to match workers' student loan payments in the form of retirement plan contributions.

It's a boon for those who owe student debt, said the director of TIAA. It's the recently passed Secure 2.0 bill, which adds a set of provisions to an original retirement package implemented under the Secure Act of 2019. Amongst other changes, the law provides workers with more retirement saving options and at the same time incentivizes workers to reenter the workforce amid a persistent structural labor shortage. So they're trying to lure in these young folks who maybe aren't in the

workforce. So they jumped out and saying, hey, beginning in 2024, employers can match student loan payments with a matching contribution to that 401k. And they're doing this to attract those young people who have a whole bunch of student loan debt. And it's another one of these benefits they're trying to use to attract them. So it's very interesting. So here's the example. Let's say I have $450 in monthly student loan payments and I'm I got to make these payments, but I also want to invest for the future. The employer can put $450 into my 401k as a match for me while I make my $450 student loan payment. Very interesting.

I have, I think what stands out to me, I have so many questions about if this is supposed to bring workers back into the job market, how were they paying their student loan debt while they weren't working? That's it. Well, it's on pause, Christina. So they're all like, we're riding high. Yeah, but that's not going to last forever. Well, in their minds, it is. Oh, they're hoping by the time it's over, it's forgiven and we never have to deal with it. But, you know, I've got a lot of thoughts about this, but one is the frustration I would feel if you have other payments in your life or you paid off your student loans and all of a sudden your coworker next to you who went into $100,000 for his degree is all of a sudden getting free money in his 401k because of his decision he made to go into debt. That feels frustrating. I

get that. I empathize with those who are struggling with student loan payments going, well, I also want to retire with dignity. But I also think it incentivizes people to hang on to their student loan payments if they're getting this free match from their employer as they continue to make payments. Yeah. Or even take out more student loans, maybe go back to grad school because they know that they're still going to be able to. That's the life hack. Oh, gosh. No, I'm not encouraging that. Go $100,000 into student loan debt so you can get a free match into the 401k from your employer. Oh, gosh, no. I have mixed feelings, though, because it's like, on one hand, we want people to win with money. Of course, like, if people do unfortunately have student

loan debt, like, I want them to be able to still build up retirement savings. But you're also right in that, like, what are the long term implications? And is it ethically correct? You know what I'd rather? I want to see this debt gone. And I think a better incentive would be for employers to match the payment to help them pay off the debt. Yes. Now there's an idea. I should run for Congress. Hey, if George Santos can make it, I feel like I've got a shot at this point. You know, I don't think I can make up as many lies as if I wanted to as him. So, wow. Well, interesting stuff. There's a lot of interesting retirement pieces that are actually beneficial for folks who are trying to build wealth in this new secure 2.0 bill. So we're

going to keep you guys posted on that, but just wanted to update you on that interesting student debt slash investing. I'm curious to see how this plays out and just kind of the emotions. There's already so many emotions around everything student loans right now, but... Very emotional. I'm sure there will be debates around this. We'll be along for the ride. We're here for it. All right, let's get to the phones. Joe is in Wisconsin. Joe, welcome to the show. Well, thank you, and thank you for taking my call. Sure. How can I help? Well, I just need some advice on if I should pay my truck off so that I could pay my house off. Whoa.

Instead of paying it off over, I think I could have it paid off by February of next year. What's left on the truck loan? $6,000. And what's it worth? About $48,000. Wow. And what's left on the mortgage?

$37,000. Oh, my goodness. This is no joke. There we go. So you would make a profit of $42,000 selling the truck, pay off the mortgage, and still have $5,000 left over. Yeah, and I only drive, like, maybe a mile and a half to my job. So I don't need, like, you know, I bought the truck because I thought I needed it for my house because I always need, like, a truck to pick up certain things.

And, you you know we have crazy winters here but not worth it that's why I'm just seeing if it's worth it to do this I could have the truck paid off actually by middle of March and then the house would be paid off by next year early well Joe do you have any reservations like what would keep you from making this decision? Part of it is I do want to just get the house cut off because I do drive a LCL job. And because of the crazy winter we've had, we get a lot of shorter paychecks. What's your mortgage payment? I'd like to have $643,000. So you'd free that up every single month and then what's your income

uh my combined income for the household between my two jobs and my wife's disability on last year's taxes was 141 awesome man well you're gonna get you know seven to eight thousand dollars back in your life every year by getting rid of this house payment and you're already making a great income. And it doesn't sound like you're in love with the truck. It doesn't sound like you're super attached to it. I'm not super attached to it. I mean, it's a nice truck.

Do you have any other debt? It's only got 17,000 miles on it. It's a 21 Silverado. I'd sell it. What other debt do you have? None. I just have the truck and the house, and that's it. Oh, my goodness.

Man, it's such a simpler life. I just love that you could be debt-free today, no payments in the world, making $141,000, have an extra $8,000 back in your life every year. And by the way, if you want a truck in the future, you can just go pay cash for a truck in the future. Yeah, right now my truck payment is $800 because I'm still paying and I still got a few months left on it. So you'd free up $800 on top of the $643.

It was like $1,250. Dude, you just gave yourself a raise. Yeah, and if I work full-time with no shortened days, I could take all my payments in like one and a half checks and I get paid weekly. I love this plan.

It's exciting. Yeah, I think you go get debt free. And you just gave yourself a $15,000 raise by doing this one move. How does that feel? That's good because then I can start putting retirement back into my retirement. Well, that puts you at baby step seven. I would start maxing out every single retirement account I can. Do you have a 401k through work? I do right now.

Before I started this, I got about a quarter of a million in retirement, and I have 19 years in the military. So at the end of this year, I'll have a pension as well. Awesome. Wow. And do you have a Roth option through your employer for the 401k? I do. Cool. How old are you? I'll be 50 in about a month and a half. Okay. Joe, this is awesome. This is a great place to be. Yeah, this is exciting. Not only are you going to be able to get debt-free this week, but I see a great trajectory ahead where it's like you're

going to be able to save aggressively with that income, with the pension from the military, you're heading towards a pretty good retirement. Now, you're going to need a different car. You'll have $5,000 left. Do you have any other money in the bank you could use towards a car? No, because I've been just putting everything on the truck because the truck was quite expensive, so I wanted to pay it off as soon as I could. I was just pounding it all onto the truck. Do you have an emergency fund? Not right now. That's what I would get because I only have $1,000 in savings,

and I have $2,500 in my checking account because all my payments come out on the first. Then I'm going to pause. I'm going to keep saving until I have enough in the bank to buy a used car so that you're in a good spot. Then once this is all done, let's save up a fully funded emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. And then we're off to the races, back to investing. And man, what a wild journey, Joe. This is incredible. Baby step seven, just like that. Get rid of the truck.

Oh my goodness. Thanks for the call, man. This is The Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day, Proverbs 1.5. A wise man will hear and increase in learning, and a man of understanding will acquire wise counsel. Sidney Sheldon once said, libraries store the energy that fuels the imagination. They open up windows to the world and inspire us to explore and achieve and contribute to improving our quality of life. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Christina Ellis. And a lot of people out there think building wealth in this economy is impossible, but that is lies from hope stealers and headlines out there. You don't need to panic. You don't need to start raising your own chickens to do this thing. What you need is a plan for your money. And that's why

we're heading out on the Building Wealth Live Tour, where we'll give you a proven plan to build wealth and keep it. We'll be in Indianapolis on February the 16th, Austin, Texas, February the 23rd. We'll be in Salt Lake City on April the 24th, and rounding it out in Anaheim, California on May 2nd. Tickets start at just 49 bucks, or you can get a four-pack of tickets for $175. Bring some friends, some family. It's going to be a blast. Go to ramseysolutions.com slash events to reserve your seats for Building Wealth Live. So exciting. All right, Christina, we need an update

on your no spend month. A lot of people out there, you know, like it's crunch time. We're in the last week of January. Yes. And a lot of people, maybe they've fallen off the wagon. Maybe they need a little pep in their step. Where are we at? Well, we've made it to the last week and I put out a poll on Instagram last night and I actually have a lot of people in the community that are

still doing it. Good. Yes. We've almost made it, y'all. We're almost to the finish line. And what's super exciting to me is we have a lot of people who maybe didn't do it this month. They didn't prepare for it. They weren't ready for it, but they're doing it next month. Nice. Which is exciting. I had somebody reach out and say, did you know about Frugal February? I'm like, ooh, I like that.

Let's make that a thing. We need to come up with a word for every single month to where we're just on a budget every month. Hey, let's do it. If it works, then let's do it. And what's really cool is I keep getting messages from people who are making huge progress this month. They're paying off debt, they're saving in their emergency fund, they're paying down their house. And I just absolutely love it. But I do want to take a second to kind of talk about we're at the last week, what happens next, right? Because the goal, it's kind of like, have you ever done like Whole30?

I've attempted it. I can't say I ever succeeded. Okay. Well, with Whole30, like the goal isn't just to do a diet for a month, right? And lose a few pounds. The goal is a lifestyle change. And same with No Spin January. It's like, it's exciting. We're seeing these quick, amazing, big wins, but we don't want it to just be this month. Like, how is it going to last throughout the rest of the year?

And I know for our family, like we're already seeing ways that we can massively change the way we spend our money and do groceries. And it's been such a good tune up that I have no doubt that we're going to be doing a lot better going forward. So I just encourage all of you who've done it with us to start thinking through how can we carry this progress forward? How can we carry the momentum? And one of the big things is to set a really clear goal. So for our family, you know, we want to, we're in the housing market right now, houses in our areas we've talked about are kind of crazy expensive, and we want to pay it off house. So we are just aggressively saving towards the house. So my goal is by December 31st, I will put X amount

of money towards paying the house, but I need it really clear and specific. So if you are in this season of being really aggressive, if you've been doing the no spend month with me, really think through what's your goal that's going to carry the momentum forward. Maybe you'll have all your debt paid off by August, or you'll build a fully funded emergency fund by June. But whatever it is, be really clear because one of the things that's inspiring to me is I've had so many people in my DMS being like, I'm pumped. I'm going to do no spend February. I'm going to do it in March. We're going to do 90 days. And that is awesome. And I want you to keep that enthusiasm. It is easy for life to pop up, Murphy to show up and kind of lose that enthusiasm. But with your goal in mind, like make it clear and plain to see. And the other thing is

to create a visual. So we have this like perfect spot in our bedroom that we walk by every single day. And that is the spot for my vision board. And where I'm going to put that goal like huge where I can see it. I got to, I'm forced to pass it every time I go in and out of the room. And I've been getting a lot of like trackers that people are using. Like a lot of people have like the bricks where it's like they have a brick for their house. And like each time they like pay a thousand dollars off on their house, they like fill in a brick. And I just love that. So, you know, if it's helpful to you, create a visual where it's not just like you have this goal that you can forget tomorrow, but you're seeing it every single day and you know what you fight,

what you're fighting for, you feel that momentum. So I'm just super excited. I feel like 2023 is gonna be such an awesome year and let's go y'all. Let's keep this momentum. Get those sticky notes on the bathroom mirror, put your affirmations up there, whatever you need to do to stay on track. And I'm gonna work on coming up with monthly names

for being on a budget. The best I can do for you right now is miserly March, but I don't like that. It's got a very negative tone to it. We could do money March. Yeah, that's pretty general. Momentum March. Momentum March. There we go. What about April? April's tough. I don't have any A words

here. I'm looking at, you know, synonyms. Affluent April. That's fancy. Right? I like that. Then we're back to M for May. Oh, this is too hard. Oh, darn. We'll come up with it. We'll announce them later on.

We'll get there. All right, let's get to the phones. Rachel joins us up next in New York City. Rachel, welcome to the show. Thanks so much. I really appreciate you taking my call. Absolutely. What's going on with you?

Well, I've been a little bit careless. Things have just been really out of control in life. And I did not even realize that I was in $4,500 of debt, which isn't much. Like, as far as the grand scheme of things, it's manageable. But it's over three credit cards, which I am so excited to get them paid off, closed, canceled, done with them forever. But I have a question. So they're all about the same amount. I can afford to pay off within the budget. I can pay off two in full this month. The other one will have to wait until next month. I can make the minimum payment, not a big deal. But one of the three has 0% interest. It is in the middle. It's like

the second most amount of money. Would it be fair of me to push that one to next month and pay the two off that have interest rates? What are the balances? They're ranging between $1,200 and $1,500. Hey, Rachel, can we back up for just a second? How did you accidentally get in $4,500 of credit card debt without knowing it? So I was aware that I was using my credit cards, but I didn't realize what the balance was. I'd just been very, very careless. I'm paying stupid tax, as Dave would say, for being careless in the months leading up to my wedding. Have you cut up those credit cards? I have. Okay, good.

I've cut them up. I've put them in a frame on my desk. Okay, okay, good. That's the level of anger we needed. There we go. I feel better now. Now we can proceed. I'm going to pay these off from smallest to largest and ignore that 0% interest rate because I think it's one of those mental traps that got us here in the first place. And I like the feeling of still having that one with interest dangling out there to keep the fire under you to get rid of it as soon as possible. That's, I kind of thought that's what you'd say, but I wanted to make sure I was doing it the right way.

That's what I would do because I'm a human and I know I'm not perfect. And I know when I see 0%, I go, I got time. Next month's fine too, though. I mean, we'll get rid of it. I love the idea of you looking at 22% interest going, I will never do business

with any of these scummy companies again. That's the feeling I want you to have. Yeah. Pay all the stupid tax. It's wonderful having them cut up and sitting on my desk and being like, I will be done with them in two months. In two months, I will be completely out of debt and it won't be a problem. I love it. When's the wedding? The wedding was in December. Now we're covering and looking at everything, and we're creating our budget together and all of that good stuff. I love it. So is your spouse on board with this crazy plan? Oh, yeah. That's great. Have you guys been through Financial Peace University? We have. Nice. Well, hey, we all pay our stupid tax,

Rachel. So don't feel shame and guilt. We just learn and move on. It's only really stupid if you keep doing it. Exactly. And keep justifying it. But I'm glad it's in the frame. It's in the rearview mirror. And within the next month, no more debt. And you're going to have that emergency fund real soon. And you're going to be building for the future instead of paying for the past we have our thousand dollar emergency fund and we had built up an emergency fund before the wedding which means like on our own and that's what we're using to clear these cards awesome i love it man young people getting this stuff newlyweds it just warms my heart what a beautiful story love it congrats on soon to be debt freedom rachel this is the ramsey show Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Christina Ellis.

And we are excited to take your calls, America, to help you take that right next step in your financial journey. And Harry is on the line in Detroit. Harry, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Well, hi, you guys. Thanks for taking my call very much. Absolutely. I've got a friend who's in a real dire situation, and he never had problems with money before auto pay. He never had an overdraft before auto pay.

He paid his bills manually. Since auto pay, he has had just ridiculous problems with it. And not only do I feel for him, I'm quite scared for myself as well. I'm great with money. I haven't had an overdraft in 24 years myself. And I pay my bills on time manually, but they are trying to get me to switch over to auto pay. I'm not going to do it. I'm holding out as long as I can. How do you deal with auto pay and this kind of problem? What exactly, like, what is the problem?

Like, he's not timing it well, or what's been the issue? They pull it out whenever they want. They pull it out sometimes on the 15th or 18th or 10th or whatever uh if they pull everything out the same day my friend it'd be all right but he's that's the problem that they've had they've pulled things out they even double bill people sometimes these people who's they is it the bank is it the like the utility provider who's they in Yeah, it's the different companies that he's had. And so I don't know how to help them. And I don't even know how to help me because I'm

afraid it could happen to me in the future. Well, here's what I do, Harry. And this is anecdotal. I've got all my utility bills, most of everything I can get on auto pay, I do it. But here's what I also do. I do a monthly budget and I mark due dates. And inside of EveryDollar, you can mark the due dates for those bills. So I know exactly when they're coming out. And we also have a new tool inside of EveryDollar Premium called Paycheck Planning, where it will show you exactly when you would run out of money. So it would show your friend when he would overdraft based on when his bills come out. And what you can do is call the company or get on their website and you can change the due date to a very specific date.

And then you can plan for that in your budget. So if you need that bill to come out on the 16th because you get paid on the 15th instead of the 10th, you can move that generally to the 16th to avoid that. And you start doing that with enough bills and use that paycheck planning tool and you can solve all these problems. I truly do not think it's auto pay is the enemy. I think it is ourselves. And that's a hard pill to swallow to go. I haven't done a good job managing my bills and my money. And also another thing he needs is a buffer in his checking account. And so instead of budgeting from $0 in his bank, he needs to have a $200, $300 buffer sitting in there.

And that's kind of the floor. We don't go below $300. Every bit of our income and expenses happens beyond that $300. Another thing you can do is turn off overdraft to where the bill just won't go through and you won't get charged. Oh, that's right. So you could go into your banking features and turn that function off so that you don't get dinged from the bank. And I've done this before, Harry. Even in the past few years, we miscalculated something, and I got the overdraft fee, and nothing makes me angrier than an overdraft fee of $35.

So I walk into the bank, and I go, listen, I've been a customer for a decade. I'm willing to stop today because of this overdraft fee. And they go, all right, as a one-time courtesy, we'll refund you the $35. So you can also get that overdraft fee back if your bank is nice. How's that sound, Harry? The other thing is I was going to do that myself with a utility because I wanted to switch my payment to the third. And I called them and they said, well, if you switch to the third, you're going to have a fee every month because you're paying it on the third

instead of when we want you to pay. When do they want you to pay it? On the 26th. I've never heard that. The previous month. Do you know if it's a fee or are they trying to just like make up the difference, like a prorated amount to kind of change the date is it an actual like dinging you a penalty it's an actual fee it's yeah it's an actual fee i couldn't believe it is this a well which utility

provider is it verizon okay um i would maybe try calling back and trying it well if that's the case i'm gonna adjust well i'm gonna go well i'm gonna have the money on the 26th and i'm gonna gift you I would maybe try calling back and trying it. Well, if that's the case, I'm going to adjust. I'm going to go, well, I'm going to have the money on the 26th, and I'm going to gift you every dollar premium. I'll give you two of them. How about that? One for you and one for your friend, and you guys can have a little budget party together. How does that sound?

Well, I can't see to use your software, but my friend would love it, I'm sure. Okay, we'll make sure to get that over to you. Austin will pick up and we'll get that over to you. But it's an interesting conversation. It is an interesting conversation. And I do know a lot of that stuff can be kind of overwhelming. Like, I don't know how tech savvy Harry is, but I know for my mom, it's a lot like trying to be like, mom, just change it to where this is on this day and then go to the bank and do this. And then sitting down with her is really helpful. So if there's somebody in your life, if you feel overwhelmed by trying to get everything set up, maybe I know it can be a tough pill to swallow sometimes for parents. But millennials and Gen Z, we're pretty good at tech.

We're hip with it. We're hip with it. And I feel like we're at the spot now with my mom, with my husband's parents. Like that's kind of our role. We sit down with them and we walk them through like how do we set up things on the right schedule? How do we deal with the technology? It can feel kind of overwhelming, but like walking through it. Oh yeah. That's a good call. Love that. All right. Let's go to Ashley in Chattanooga. Ashley, welcome to the show. Hi, how are you? We're doing great. How can we help today? I am just struggling trying to find the right

communication to set up finances. And, you know, my boyfriend and I are considering moving forward and proposing and getting married. And we just have different views of finances. And I'm just trying to get him on board with savings. What are his views? And where we're allocating our money. He doesn't really have any. It's kind of frustrating. Every time I talk about it, he just kind of shuts down.

I mean, I just recently found out kind of how much money he has in the bank, how much money he makes, and we've been together for almost three years. So it's just kind of a— Is it disconcerting? Does he have a lot of money in the bank or how much money he makes, and we've been together for almost three years. So it's just kind of a— Is it disconcerting? Like, does he have a lot of money in the bank, or does he have nothing? He has well more than I do. And I think that he, you know, from the way his family is, I think he's grown up a little bit more comfortable than my family, as in, like, he has never had to worry about having money,

whereas I have always had a job and always kind of lived paycheck to paycheck until I got my career job um so and we're both making the most that we've ever made um in our careers so I just I don't know how to ask him you know with him making almost double my salary I think that it's kind of I don't really know the wording. What's the fear on your part? What's the fear? That we're just blowing money.

We're not on a budget. So you're saying he's been out earning his stupidity. He's just kind of doing whatever he wants because he makes enough that it's not really a concern. Is he going into debt for all this? No, no. He's great. That's why I feel bad even asking. I own a home, so I own my own home. He doesn't own a home. He lives with me. So I think that was the first miscommunication or the first... How does that work? Is he paying you rent?

Yes, but is that wrong? I don't know. I don't know how... So what do... I'm not that wrong i don't know i don't know how so what i'm not married i don't what do these conversations look like like whenever you try to sit him down and speak about money what does it look like what does he get defensive does he get aloof you said he shuts down at what point does that happen um it happens right around my dog in the other room um he just doesn't he's never open to the conversation i always have to start it and he just kind of shakes his head and doesn't is he do you think he's controlling with it he doesn't want anyone to tell him what to do with his money yes yes and how do you how do you start the conversations like how is this opener to the financial conversation um so you know there's

stuff at the house that he doesn't love my house and i you know it's just my first home and i feel um pretty proud of it you should be actually you tell him to kick rocks and pound sand if he doesn't want to live there and it's part of the reason this is so messy is because when you shack up and play house, it usually doesn't end well. And so we need to have some really hard conversations with this guy and say, listen, I can see a future with you, but not if we don't align on this money stuff and not if you're not willing to talk about it. And I would also suggest premarital counseling because it sounds like there may be some deeper issues. The fact that he's willing to say those sort of things that kind of brings shame to your housing situation

that you're really proud of. I'd really dig into those roots before you marry this guy. Absolutely. I mean, money fights and money problems are one of the leading causes of divorce. And so I would tread lightly with this guy. I hope the best for you. I would go through Financial Peace University. I would gift that to you guys right now. So hang on the line. Austin will pick up. If he's unwilling to go through Financial Peace, it's a big red flag to me. And I would pause with this relationship and it might mean it's time to kick this guy out. Thanks for the call, Ashley. That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. My thanks to Christina Ellis and you, America. Hey, it's George Camel. If you like what you heard in this episode and want to know more about getting started on the Ramsey Baby Steps,

go to ramseysolutions.com and click on the Get Started button. We'll help you figure out the best next step for you based on your specific situation. That's ramseysolutions.com and click Get Started.