The Ramsey Show - App - There Are No Shortcuts To Financial Freedom (Hour 3)

Episode Date: October 13, 2022

John Delony & George Kamel discuss: The uncomfortable mindset shift needed to become debt free, How to handle vacations that you agreed to before starting the Baby Steps, Why the return on investment on solar panels is so difficult, How to determine if a job offer is a right for your family, What to do when you don't feel supported by friends and family during your debt free journey, Why cashing out retirement savings to pay off debt is a horrible plan, How to challenge yourself to decrease your debt payoff timeline. Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

🎵 What is up, America? This is the Ramsey Show, broadcasting from the pods, moving in storage studios here in Nashville, Tennessee. This is where America hangs out to have a conversation about your money, your life, your relationships, your mental health, your work, all of it. Whatever's going on in your life, we're here for you. 888-825-5225. I'm John Deloney, joined here by my good friend George Camel. And we're taking your calls. It's a toll-free call.

Money, life, anything you got going on. 888-825-5225. Let's go out to Jessica in Huntsville, Alabama. What's up, Jessica? Hey, George and John. I'm so excited to talk to you guys. Are you calling to ask us who we think is going to win this weekend between Alabama and UT?

It's going to probably be UT, but go ahead. We already know who's going to win, actually. Oh, we do? Oh, okay. I see what we're doing here. All right, so what's the ball? It's where you throw a ball back and forth. Jessica gets me.

She gets me. She really gets me. George has no idea what we're talking about. Literally, I was like, I can't believe John knows that. That's so cool. He knows when the big game's happening. And by the way, what's a big game? I'm excited for the first episode of Mantor to come out.

Yes, this is when John coaches me up and shows me how to change oil on my Tesla. Oh, yeah, we've talked about the idea of having a show where I teach George how to do things that most men already know how to do. And I show John how to get past his insecurities, which are strong to quite strong. Yes, that's going to be a huge, huge success. How can we actually be helpful today, Jessica? Yeah, so speaking of Teslas, I'd like you guys to settle a marital discussion. Yes. So we are going to make $200,000 this year and probably more next year.

We're on Baby Step 2, and we have $225,000 in student loan debt. Are you a doctor? No, we're both masters and doctorate trained nurses. Okay, very cool. Yeah, so, and then we have our cars. They're both paid off worth probably 80 to 90, both total. So, and one is a Tesla. So, should we sell our cars uh okay so i mean on a financial

like on paper there's nothing wrong with you guys having ninety thousand dollars worth of cars when you make 200 and it's paid for and so selling one of these cars doesn't free up a payment it will accelerate your debt-free journey but there's no reason you guys can't be debt-free within two or three years completely, even with this level of debt. So the question is how... That's the goal. If you want to sell one because you're like, well, you don't really need it, we don't love this car, obviously you're going to sell the non-Tesla vehicle, I imagine.

Jessica, listen. I know. My husband probably is like, why are you calling them right now no listen um as somebody who's sitting next to george and i have a regular self-esteem i would sell both of these cars um that's just me i would sell me like that i'd sell both of the cars i would buy two ten thousand dollar cars and i would take the sixty to seventy thousand dollars and knock this debt out y'all make too much money to be this broke for the next three years. There's no reason to do it.

And you are faking pseudo-fantasy happiness by driving to work every day. And, dude, I would buy a Tesla tomorrow if I could afford one. I love them. I love them. I'm literally jealous of George's car. No kidding. But I'm not there yet. And so I'm not going to live in a fantasy world. I'm not going to drive a $75,000 car when I still have a mortgage. I'm just not going to do it. And so I

would sell both the cars and buy two Corollas and let that be the gas, the jet engine fuel that you need to get yourself out of debt. That's what I would do. George would not do that. Well, no, I think to John's point on paper, we're not going to yell at you and say, oh my gosh, this is ridiculous. I just think it's going to be a lot harder to pay off $225,000 in debt in two years, even making 200, if there's not some level of sacrifice. Yeah. We don't talk about this enough, George and Jessica. It's hard. There's an old adage in boxing, which is it's hard when you've had your big payday,

when you're a multi, multi, multimillionaire, it's really hard to get up at 5 a.m. and go for a run and jump rope and then go to the gym and get punched in the face because you have a million dollars in your bank account. It is very hard to get gazelle intense and pay off $200,000 worth of debt when you're cruising in a Tesla. It just is. It's really easy when you're driving in my 06 Tundra that I love with all my heart and she is, I'm duct taping her together at this point. It's really easy for

me to get that mortgage paid off, right? To grind and grind and grind because I'm tired of driving this car. See what I'm saying? Yes, I get it. And that's why another reason I think the $1,000 emergency fund is so important too because... It makes you sweat. And that's all you're working with. Yeah, it makes you sweat a little bit.

Are you guys down to $1,000 in the emergency fund? Are you really doing this? No. How much money do you guys have? We have $3,000 probably. We do our monthly budget because we're

bi-weekly paid so I keep my money for the next month and then pull it over and there's probably about $2,000 two to 3,000. Okay. Are you guys investing? You're like half in now. That's fine. Are you guys doing any investing right now? No.

Okay, cool. Well, that should help. I mean, making 200, the question is how much of that can we throw at the debt? And if we can sell one or both cars, how much faster is that going to speed up the process? How many paychecks of working our tails off would that cover to sell these cars? And so when you put it on paper like that, it changes the conversation with your husband when you go, oh my gosh, this is seven months of busting our tails and we can propel our journey forward by selling these. And there's going to be cars on the other side. They will always sell more cars and we will continue to have an amazing income with no debt. George and I talked about that on another show the other day. The more I'm around people who have significant wealth, the more I realize they are spending their money on the single most

precious resource on the planet. And that's time. And so if you just do a simple time calculation, what's it going to take? How many months would it take us to pay off $90,000? on the planet, and that's time. And so if you just do a simple time calculation, what's it going to take? How many months would it take us to pay off $90,000? Those cars are worth nothing. And then you look at those little kids I hear in the background, and you say, you know what? We're willing to cash out another year of your life living like this, paycheck to paycheck, paying off our debts,

because we really love our fancy cars it's it's a no-brainer and you got a cool story to tell your kids like we used to drive these fancy cars and we sold them so that we could become debt free that's right like mom just passed the cheerios exactly mom are the Reese's yeah you're yeah you're well played your your your time is not worth the car and and make no mistake, because people on the YouTube are going to be like, he's going to sell your car. Nah, that's what I'm saying. I'd buy a Tesla tomorrow. I'd buy a nice truck tomorrow. I just have different goals, and my goals involve sleeping really well at night and not worrying about whether we're going to have food and not worried about the next fill in the blank. I'd rather not worry about those things. I'd rather buy my time back. And also Teslas are going for insane amounts of money right now,

so good time to sell. You're probably going to make more than you purchased it for, I'm guessing. About the same, probably. There we go. In the 2018 Model 3, yeah. Woo, sweet win. And what's just cool about a 2018, I can't tell the difference between that

and a 2022 model 13 my friend or a 2013 gangster they all look the same Rachel accidentally tried to break into my car the other day

and I was like I'm winning I'm winning well played she had no clue mine was way older good times hey you gotta be uncomfortable

you gotta be uncomfortable get yourselves out of debt get yourselves out of debt we'll be right back. what is up it's 888-825-5225 this is the ramsay show i'm john deloney joined here by george campbell hey we're celebrating the one-year anniversary of Borrowed Futures' launch by premiering the film on YouTube. That is a sentence that didn't exist several years ago, but here we are. We're premiering the film on YouTube on Monday, October 17th at 7 p.m. Central

with a watch party. I said that like I'm 111 years old. They're going to throw a big hoo-ha showdown. We're going to have a hoot nanny on. Listen, Borrowed Future is our award-winning documentary that uncovers the dark side of the student loan industry. We believe every high schooler and parent of high schoolers should watch this film,

and my higher ed colleagues should watch this film as well. So share this with someone you know that needs it. Following the watch party throwdown on October 17th, you can view Borrowed Future on YouTube for free on demand. The film is still available on Amazon Prime, Video, Apple TV, Google Play, and ramseysolutions.com where you can rent it ad free. Let's continue to disrupt the toxic student loan industry. Join us Monday night for our Borrowed Future Watch Party on the YouTubes. You can RSVP on the Ramsey Show's YouTube channel

for a reminder. All right, let's go to Michelle in Burlington Coat Factory, Vermont. What's up, Michelle? Good, how are you? Good, how are you? I'm doing good. I'm here. That's outstanding. That's outstanding. So what's up? Okay. So I'm on baby step number two and I have $3,222 of debt left. Oh, you are so close. So close. But before I started this journey, I agreed to go on a two-week, two-part kind of vacation.

And then I also started a new job so I won't have PTO. So I started with my debt journey. I stopped paying off the debt. And I have $5,362 in my savings. But every time I look at that ratio, it just kind of kills me that I can't pay it off. Am I doing the right thing? Okay. So you have, you agreed to go on a vacation. Who'd you agree to go on this vacation with? The first week, it's a family trip to Florida. And then the second week, it's my friend's bachelorette party, which I'm in the wedding.

Okay. And combined, those vacations are going to cost you about five grand? No, because I also wanted to think about monthly expenses for the two weeks of work I'll be missing and not getting paid for. Ouch. Okay, so all that combined is $5,000. I'm hoping to get it to $6,000 just to be on the safe side. Okay. So a couple of things here. Number one, you agreed to this vacation and a family, you agreed to be in your friend's wedding, and then they laid all these expenses out, and then you got a new job? Yeah. Okay. So as far as I'm concerned, you got a new job and that,

that is life outside of vacation. So if my, if I had a friend that was going to be in my wedding and he called and said, dude, I lost my other job. I got laid off. I took a new job. I got no paid time off. Um, I'm not going to be able to come on the week long blowout we were going to do. I'd be like, Oh, it's a bummer, dude. And he would say, I know, man, but I'll be there for the wedding. I'll be there for the rehearsal dinner and all that. And I would be completely fine with that. And if I had a family event planned and my little brother called and said, Hey, I got a new job. I'm not going to be able to make it. We got started. I would say, dude, congratulations. I'm getting a new job. So that's just me. So as far as I'm concerned, I don't have any problem with you reaching out to

your family as an integrity. It's just saying, hey, I got a new job. I don't have time off. And I'm not in a position right now to not get paid. The other side of that is every single one of my jobs, including the one I have now, I, I live my life with speak. I've been speaking at places for years. And so I've got things on the calendar, four months, six months, sometimes nine months in advance. Every single job I've had, I've come in saying, Hey, I've already got these things on the

calendar. Is that okay? And every single job I've taken, they have been like, absolutely no problem. Come on in. So I don't know if you've done that already with your supervisor or sit down and say, hey, I already had these on the calendar

when I took this and I should have brought this up and I didn't. But if you think that would be a safe conversation to have, I would try that too. That way you're not losing that money also. Because I do know

I have these vacations planned and they're giving me the time off. But since I'm an hourly employee. Oh, they're just not paying you for it. Okay. Yeah. They're giving you permission to choose to not get paid for two weeks. Yes. So kind.

They're very nice. Okay. How lovely. So what's the hourly pay? About $25 an hour. Okay. And when are these trips happening first week of November all of it

it's back to back yeah so I basically fly out of Florida to Arizona and you've already bought the flights yeah okay is that part of this $5,000 that you said how much of this is already paid for? Yep.

Okay. Oh, the hotels and the flights. You've already paid for those? Yes. But you're still thinking you're going to need all that money. Yeah, what are you going to do? I don't know. I have five nieces and nephews, so I know I'm going to want to do anything they want. We're not going to spoil them when we're broke.

No, you're broke, honey. Your time is what they want. You don't have the money. They want you to jump around in a pool and throw them around. Someone else can buy them ice cream. Yes. Okay. So if I'm in your shoes and all this is paid for, I'm going to be debt free today.

Today. And I'm going to figure out how to go spend time with my family without trying to buy their affection. And if you don't have the money, you just tell them, sorry, guys, can't go out to eat tonight. You all have fun. And if they go, hey, we'll cover your meals. No big deal. We go, that's so nice. And you accept the generosity and that's it.

And you take a flashlight and you take the kids out and you all go catch sand crabs. And it will be the adventure of a lifetime. And they won't remember the whirly gig. You bought them for $14, but they will remember the time you got pinched on the finger and you yelled the bad word and you ran around. Like they'll remember those things. Figure that out. Is that cool? Yes. You are broke and you're about to be debt free ta-da what are you doing in arizona what do you have to pay for um i going out to dinner um i think whenever we go out okay and then there's like a wine tour um so that stuff i would be as conservative as you possibly can be on that. And I would be really open because these are your ride or dies.

These are your friends. You're close to them. Y'all love each other that y'all are in each other's weddings. I would let them know I am tired of being broke and I am getting myself out of debt. And so I'm going to come on the trip. I'm going to have dinner. I'm not pitching it on the app,

on the appetizer this time I'm drinking water. I'm going to have dinner. I'm not pitching it on the appetizer this time. I'm drinking water. I'm going to be that. I'm going to be lame. I know, lame. I know. I know. I'll go to the wine tasting.

I've already put in $300 for that. I'm going to go to that. That's fine. But I'm going to be smart about this. I'm not going to use this as a time to just go off the rails. Here's why. You're broke. You can't afford it and i know

like i know i want to i know i i want it for you but you're broke and future michelle is going to love present michelle that made these decisions going oh my gosh i just got back from the trip and i'm debt free yes and i've got a new job and now i can focus on building the emergency fund and living my life and starting to invest and do all these things. And you're not having to carry this debt around for who knows how much longer because we blew it all in the nieces, nephews, and wine tours. Think of future Michelle. Think of present Michelle and future Michelle. Here's the magic line.

Choose guilt over resentment every time. Choose the guilt you feel over not buying a bunch of stuff, a bunch of junk for kids that's going to be gone, to be thrown away in the next two or three months anyway. Choose the guilt over the resentment of, I don't want to hang out with them because I'm broke. Choose the guilt over telling your friends, hey, I'm not pitching in on this super atomic, I'm not doing

the Pedal Tavern in downtown Phoenix. That's just a wise decision always. Always. I'm not doing it. I don't want to be on a Pedal Tavern. I'm not doing it. Choose guilt over the resentment you're going to feel when you're sweating, drinking whatever three-yard beers you've got, and you're all annoyed that you didn't even want to do this in the first place. You're going to resent everybody. Choose guilt over resentment. Choose it every time. You should tweet that. That's good.

Well, I didn't come up with it, so. Oh, never mind. Hey, this is The Ramsey Show, 888-825-5225. We'll be right back. 888-825-5225. This is the Ramsey Show. Let's go out to George in Tampa, Florida. What's up, George? Hey, guys. Thanks for taking the call. Tampa, Florida. What's up, George? Hey, guys.

Thanks for taking the call. You got it. What's up, man? I want to pick your brain about if I'm on baby step two or three. Here's my situation. I have a house that I owe $370,000 on. It's worth about $575,000. And we just moved into this house, bought it six months ago.

Our electric bill is astronomical. Our last electric bill was $600 for the month. So we ended up investing in solar panels. Our solar panel loan is a total $100,000. We pay $326 a month on the solar panel payments. So my question is, should I treat the solar panel payment as just kind of part of if I would normally pay the utility company every month and not really consider it a debt and focus more on paying off the house early? Or should I consider the solar

panel payment, which again, we owe a hundred thousand on as a consumer debt and try to pay that off as quickly as possible. It's absolutely a consumer debt. Okay. No six way, half dozen ways about it. And I did that wrong, but you know what I mean? It's not a debt. Um, I would change the word. Now, listen, I've, I have a, I live out here in the woods in Tennessee. I've had an engineer come out and draw me out where the solar panels would be, what they will cost, how they'll be installed. It's on my purchase list. I'm a fan of them, okay?

But I think it's honest at this point in the solar panel world to use the word investment as a way you're trying to lessen the pain of $100,000 consumer debt you just took on. So I would treat it as $100,000. Yes, it could be saving on your electric bill, great. But to look at it as an investment is not the right way to do it. I'd pay it off as soon as possible. So it's on that before paying off the mortgage. Yes.

Absolutely. Let me ask you one more question here. What is the interest on that loan? On the solar panel, it's $1.99. And so, our mortgage is $4.375. So, my thought was, well, if I pay the house off faster, I can start throwing that at the solar panels. But what happens if you have a paid-for house and you owe $78,000 on your solar panels and you got to sell your house? Well, if we sell our house and we would pay off the solar loan with, you know, we'd pay off that $78,000 from the proceeds of selling the house.

What was their pitch when they sold you on a $100,000 solar loan? It wasn't really their pitch. It was mine. Like I said, our electric bill was $600 in one month. And that's, you know, we have all the insulation, everything. We had an energy audit. Everything was right. Let me break this down for you from a breakeven analysis standpoint. So your electric bill was high. You know, it's obviously summertime, but now we're heading into the winter. So what would you say the average is if you averaged it out over the course of a year? What would your bill be per month? Well, we've been in the house for six months, and the average has been over $500. Okay.

We haven't had a winter there, though. No. So it's going to go down. I hope. Yeah. I will. The answer is yes. That's how weather works. So let's say the average is $400 a month over the course of the answer is yes. The answer is yes. That's how weather works.

So let's say the average is $400 a month over the course of the year. Sure. All right, that's $4,800 a year. You took out a $100,000 loan with interest. Let's just say $100,000 for easy numbers. Divide that by the $4,800 you save a year. It's going to take you 21 years to break even on this purchase. Okay.

Let me ask you again. Is it worth saving the $500, $600 a month if it's going to take 21 years? How old are you, George? 35. You're going to be 56 years old by the time this was a good purchase. And that's right about the time you'll be replacing the solar panels for the new one. And that's if you still live there. The chances are you're probably going to move in the next decade or so, right?

People move all the time. Yeah, I don't know. This will probably be our forever home. Yeah, there's no such thing. And the other thing, the house did not increase in value by $100,000, did it? No. That was rhetorical. Yeah, the answer is no.

So listen, don't forget, man. George drives a Tesla. I've got solar panels in my queue. We're all about it. We just want to be honest about what we're talking about. I'm not trying to beat you up over this. I know it's easy to justify these things because you're looking at the electric bill and you're angry, going, oh my God, it's $600 a month.

I'll do anything to not pay this. And by anything, I mean go $100,000 into debt to rid myself of this pain. So all that to say, get rid of this debt as soon as possible. There's no easy way to do it. It's on the house now. We can't just – I wish it was the 30-day return window on solar panels. That would be amazing. Can't, man.

Can't. That one's in there. I'm sorry you got to pay the price, man, but just pay it off like a consumer debt, then attack the house. That's right. Hey, right now is the time of the year when it's make or break

when it comes to our goals. We're heading into the holiday season, and let's be real, it's hard to stay motivated. It's getting colder. It's hard to get out of bed. It's getting darker. You just want to go to bed.

We all have goals, whether it's to find a better job, make more money, pay off debt, build stronger relationships, and it can be hard to keep momentum going. But here is the good news. Coming up in a couple of weeks, we have one of our biggest events, Smart Conference. We're headed to Dallas for a day-long jam-packed event where you'll get advice from leading experts on money, personal growth, career, mental health, and your marriage. You'll leave with all the knowledge and motivation you need to reach your goals and live the life you want. Join me and the rest of the Ramsey personalities, Dave Ramsey, Ken Coleman, Christina Ellis, Rachel Cruz, even letting George Campbell speak.

We're excited to get a plan for your money, relationships, personal growth, and career. Join us live in person on October 22nd to get your passes before they sell out. Visit ramsaysolutions.com slash events to get your tickets today. All right, let's go to Rebecca in Joplin, Missouri. What's up, Rebecca? Hey guys, how are you? Partying. How about you? I'm hiding from my children in a classroom at this school for being honest, but it's fine. I love this. All right, so what's up? Hey, my husband is a family practice doctor. A large hospital system moved us to a rural area for him to cover their clinic and their hospital.

The clinic was incredibly mismanaged, and as a result, the hospital system went through and closed all of the clinics. So a free place took them over. We've got these benefits with this free place. There is zero employer satisfaction. He has a 70-minute commute. There's no opportunity for growth. They have told him in writing that we don't care about provider satisfaction.

In the meantime, old employer has resurfaced and said, hey, listen, we're so sorry we want you back. But we're kind of hesitant. And they've offered more money. But there's a non-compete. And so we're trying to decide what is the wisest choice for our family? What was businesses closed, businesses open, all that kind of stuff. If Dave came to me tomorrow and said, Hey, we are having money problems. We're going to have to let you go. And he came and did it with integrity. I would be upset. I'd be sad. I'd be like, man, I didn't know this was so bad, blah, blah, blah. And then if he came back a year later and said, Hey, um, I'd like to hire her you for a new venture behind closed doors.

He has proven to be himself a person of integrity. And I know he cares about me and my family. And I know business happened in between that and I'm okay with it. So my question is not like what happened? Why did they have to close? But it is, how was the interpersonal relationship? Did they treat, were they honest with you? Did they treat you with dignity? Business happened fine. Did they treat you honestly and with integrity during that transition? They did not. However, there has been a leadership change.

And so when they found out that we were potentially looking, they came back and they said, listen, we have made a mistake. We have egg on our face. We accept responsibility. You know, here's what we're offering. So that has been good. Part of the change is they are offering an increase in the clinic salary, but the hospital salary would decrease by essentially that same amount. So we would be gaining less commute. We would be gaining an opportunity for growth, but at the expense of he does not have a non-compete currently and he would, they absolutely will not negotiate. The non-compete is non-negotiable.

Sure. Well, you're going to have to, y'all are going to have to figure out what's right for your family when it comes to those types of things. What I, this is the devil you don't know with the devil you do. The devil you do know is your employer looked at you and said, I don't care how much your life sucks. We're going to make our money. And if my employer does that, I am out on the first train out. I'm out of there, man, because my marriage and my life isn't worth that job. And so sounds like it's a good deal. And yes, it's going to come with some sticky points to it, but that's what I would do. Trust your gut on that one.

Yeah. We'll be right back. today's scripture of the day is proverbs 15 1 a gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger. The great Viktor Frankl says, the one thing you can't take away from me is the way I choose to respond to what you do to me. That, I think, is the single most important message in the world today. There's not many quotes that I would consider a life-changing quote. Transformational. You choose who hurts you. The one thing you can't take away from me is the way I choose to respond to what you do to me. That makes you invincible. It literally is a superpower. The ability to be calm when somebody else is angry in your presence. The ability to walk away and say, I'm worth more than this. The ability to say, I want to be in relationship with you. Um, but I refuse to be belittled like this. I refuse to work at a place that treats me like

this. I'm going to pursue other opportunities. The one thing you can't take away from me, you can take away my livelihood. You can take away my life. You can take away my family. You can take away everything you cannot take from me the way I choose to respond to what you do to me. Powerful, powerful words from the great Victor Frankel. Love it. All right, let's go out to Jessica in Cincinnati, Ohio. What's up, Jessica? Hey there.

Thank you so much for taking my call. Absolutely. Thanks for calling. I'm currently on baby step two, and I'm in the process of taking care of some pretty decently large consumer debt that I had accrued while I struggled with some depression in the last couple of years. But my issue is that with making some of the necessary sacrifices that I've had to make, I've gotten a lot of flack from some friends and family

for saying no to going out. And then they'll offer to pay for me just so I do get out. So how do I start to assert those boundaries? Because it makes me really uncomfortable when they offer to pay. Yeah. You two, two ways forward. Okay. Number one, coming out of a depression, a depressive season and getting well, you, that's an agreement with your body that we're going to feel this discomfort and we're going to head into it, not away from it. Okay. So saying no, saying I can't make it and having somebody say, I want you here so bad because we like you that I'll just grab the cost of your meal. And that shame, that discomfort that I'm not worth that. I'm not enough. They're just pitying me. Those are feelings that we are going to, for the first time, we're going to feel them actually. We may write them down. We may look at them and demand evidence from them. Are they really asking me to come out and pay for my meal because they pity me? Are they really just feel sorry for me?

Or am I their friend and they see that their friend like, so what dude, I'm just going to grab your meal. I'd much rather have you hang out than have $20 burning a hole in my wallet. And so the first thing is you're going to have to begin to feel those feelings, discomfort. That's the key to getting healthy. Okay. Walking through little tiny steps through those feelings. The second thing is you're going to have to make peace with missing some things sometimes and not being so prideful that you skip out on friendships just because you don't want to have their help. See what I'm saying? Yeah, I do. I think it's worth going out sometimes and letting them grab your food for you. And by the way, when I had a friend who was struggling deeply

with depression, you know what I felt most of the time? Completely helpless. And being able to grab dinner was like something I could do. And so even if you don't like the idea of somebody paying for your dinner or grabbing your movie ticket, think of it as a gift to your friend. I'm helping them out by letting them help me. You know what I mean? Because it gives them something to do because they love you and they want to be a part of your recovery. They just don't know how to do it. They don't have the training or the professional, whatever. They can give you 20 bucks to grab some fajitas and some nachos. You know what I mean? Yeah, I do. And for the friendships, I think that makes a lot of sense. But I do come from

a family of like, we give you a gift and then we use it against you later. There you go. Yes. The weaponized generosity. Okay, so- Exactly. How do I deal with that to put this in your back pocket. The things we did to keep ourselves safe and alive when we were younger become the things that destroy our relationships as adults. So as a kid, you knew that extra ice cream was going to come with some garbage attached to it.

You knew when dad called and said, you can borrow a hundred bucks for fill in the blank. That was going to come with some garbage attached to it. You knew when dad called and said, you can borrow a hundred bucks for fill in the blank. That was going to come with some heavy, heavy costs. And so you learn to shut that down. You learn to say, no, I'll do this by myself. I'm going to be a Lone Ranger through the rest of my life. And then your body said, we can't live like this. That's depression.

And now practicing relationships moving forward is you unlearning the things that kept you alive when you were a kid are now the things that are hurting you so we're going to practice letting george buy me dinner because i know george isn't gonna you know if george proves over time that he is just using me or he expects something in return. Cool. I learned something about my friendship with George. I learned something about George. So I'm going to quit, right? I'm not going to over moralize it.

I'm not going to beat myself up. I'm not going to feel shame over it. I learned something about George. He didn't tell me the truth. Cool. I'm just not going to take food from him next time. I'm not going to let him pay for my concert ticket next time. Awesome.

Sure. That makes sense? Yeah. It makes a lot of sense. Yeah. I feel like I'm not the only let him pay for my concert ticket next time. Awesome. Sure. That make sense? Yeah. It makes a lot of sense, yeah. And I feel like I'm not the only one that struggles with that. No! Because you do. Everyone does.

Yeah, everyone does. George and I were just talking about this off air, that it's hard to take something from somebody when we all have that friend who's like, last year I gave you $4.28 at Wendy's and you owe me four gosh who likes you know what i mean it's the worst impression of me i'm not saying that was george but that's for sure george um that's why i love venmo right we can just settle it right now we can all move on with our lives um there's something about practicing those relational needs that we have as young adults and into adulthood that are completely

opposite to what we needed to do to survive when we were kids okay and you deserve friends and relationships and in fact if you're healing from depression a powerful strong loving community that walks alongside you is the cornerstone of getting well. Okay? Yeah. You're worth that. Is that cool? Yes.

Thank you so much. Let them pay for your dinner. And on those other nights that you just can't get out of bed, feel free to say no. That's cool. Or tell them they can grab tacos and show up at your house. That'd be fantastic. All right, let's take one more.

Let's go to Chris in Oakland. Hey, Chris, we're right up against the clock, so get right to your question. Okay. Hey, how you doing? How you guys doing, fellas? I'll keep it quick for you guys. So I start my new job next Monday, and I ran the numbers, and I want to pay off my student loan debt, and I ran the numbers,

and I should be debt-free in free in about 16 and a half months. But I do have a quick question. So I have a traditional IRA. No, no, no. Don't do it. Don't do it. Don't do what? Don't cash it out. Oh, wow. You knew what I was going to say. Don't do it, man. Anytime someone says, I got a pile of debt and so I have this retirement account over here.

Don't do it. Don't do it. Okay. Do not do it man anytime someone says i got a pile of debt and so i have this a retirement account don't do it don't do it okay do not do it okay no get a second job get a third job work 20 hours a day and i'm i'm a maniac about sleep as the cornerstone of physical and mental health work really hard do whatever you got to do do not cash that thing out there's fees there's penalties and on top of that you're robbing from your future self. And that is never worth it. Future Chris will be pissed. If you have non-retirement, you can cash that kind of stuff out. But if you've got IRAs, 401ks, don't touch it. Use your future income.

What it does tell me is that you're gazelle intense. You want to do whatever it takes to get out of this debt. And that might mean I'm going to cut stuff from my budget, cut expenses, cut subscriptions, do some side hustles, get a raise, get a second job, and those things are all great because they don't rob you from your future. Got you. What's your new job, Chris? I'm going to be working as a lab assistant at Stanford Hospital.

Oh, that shabby place, huh? Man, we all have to just take one for the team every once in a while. Good grief. Lab assistant at Stanford Hospital. Just make it a monthly challenge. Go, all right, I'm at 16 months of debt payoff. How can I shave that down to 15 or 14? And so I love the idea of making a challenge of how much extra income can I bring,

how little can I live on during this time to make the sacrifice as painless as possible. And you're going to get there, man. 16 months ain't that bad. All right. That sounds good. Thank you guys going to get there, man. 16 months ain't that bad. All right. That sounds good. Thank you guys so much for your help. Absolutely. Always think about future, Chris.

That's what adults do. It's the theme of the day. That's exactly right. George, I remember paying off consumer debt. The temptation to cut corners is so great. Oh, we love a good shortcut. It's the American way, John. It's so great. It's why we invented the drive-th corners is so great. Oh, we love a good shortcut. It's the American way, John. It's so great.

It's why we invented the drive-thru and fast food. We don't even have to kill a cow ourselves. That's right. Hey, I want to thank Jenna, Will, AJ, even Andrew, and especially Bobby back there. Thank you, George, and thank you, America, for listening to The Ramsey Show. We will be back soon.

Take care. Hey, it's John Deloney, co-host of The Ramsey Show. Did you know over 18 million people listen to The Ramsey Show every week? A lot of those people listen on one of our 600-plus radio stations across the country. To find a station near you, go to RamseySolutions.com slash show.