The Ramsey Show - App - There's No Shame in the Emotion of Personal Finance (Hour 2)

Episode Date: July 15, 2019

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Martin is with us in San Antonio. Hey, Martin, how are you? Hey, Dave, how are you doing? Better than I deserve, sir. How can I help? Okay, absolute pleasure to talk with you today. So my wife and I are on baby step number three. We've got about $11,000 in our emergency fund.

Our goal is to get to $20,000, so we're nearly there. We've just received, or going to be coming in to a substantial amount of money, $106,000 from a deceased relative. My question is what to do with this money. So I've got $108,000 left in my mortgage. Obviously, using the money, I can fully fund the emergency fund, get it up to $20,000. And then with the remaining money, should I apply at the mortgage? Should I put some in the mortgage, some into the Roths, the RAs, the college funds for my child?

What's your household income? It's about $110,000 between the two of us. All right. You have $11,000 in savings. Your mortgage is $108,000, and the inheritance is $108,000. $106,000. $106,000. Okay.

So if you paid off the mortgage today, you'd have $9,000 and zero debt. Yes. And $100,000 income. I would do that. I'd pay off the mortgage. Pay off the mortgage. Yeah, I'm done, man. Baby step seven.

Touchdown! Yeah, no, it would be good right without those payments. Yeah. I think what we can do with it. Yeah. And the first thing I would do then is I would round up that emergency fund, and let's go ahead and run it on up to about $20,000. But with no house payment or payments of any kind and $100,000 income, boom,

you'll be there in a heartbeat. And then you're not putting in 15% of your income into retirement. You're putting all you can put and keep the government's hands off of it. You max the 401Ks. You max the Roth IRAs. And, you know, you start to really build serious wealth really quickly now okay fantastic because yeah i mean that's what we that's what i want to do for my children and my grandchildren you know like you keep on saying change that

financial tree the family tree sorry right absolutely absolutely so what's the accent australian uh english Okay, I missed it. Sorry about that. I've been in the States for 12 years. Sorry about that. I get that all the time. Cool. Love it.

Love it. Well, welcome, man. That's awesome. Proud of you. Very, very well done. Very cool. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Nick is with us in Kansas City.

Hi, Nick. How are you? Hi, Dave. Thank you so much for taking my call. Certainly. How can we help? So I'm in baby step three right now, and honestly, I feel like I'm having a hard time committing to it.

So if I can give a quick explanation, basically I feel like I'm in a job I don't really like, and I kind of want to quit, and that's why I feel like I'm not really so I don't really like, and I kind of want to quit. And that's why I feel like I'm not really so committed. You know what I mean? Well, having an emergency fund for your family is a different thing to be committed to than having a job that you hate. They're two different things. I don't quite understand.

Well, the emergency fund is taking care of your family and taking care of stabilizing your household. Your career choice is a completely different thing from an emergency fund. I hate my job. I mean, you could change your job tomorrow, whether you had an emergency fund or not, as long as you made the same amount of money or more. Okay. I don't know. I'm kind of drawing a blank with what you're saying i apologize that's okay

that's okay there are two separate issues your emergency fund should not your motivation to do an emergency fund should not be affected by the fact that you hate your job looking looking for a new job should be affected by that changing careers should be affected by that. Changing careers should be affected by that. That may or may not entail you need some money to do all of that. But you need an emergency fund to protect your family regardless of what career you have. It's a separate issue. And so the motivation to do them both is a separate motivation. It's a separate reasoning.

So I think you need to work on both. I think you do need to talk about changing careers. What do you do for a living? I'm a software engineer. Okay, and what do you want to do? Well, my ultimate dream is to develop video games and start a business of my own to do that. I mean, I do it as a hobby just on the side.

I'm trying to eventually build that up as a business where I'm making a side income and all. Okay. Well, there's a lot of open doors to contracting and side gig hustle in that world. Tons and tons you could do. And you could make extra money all with the motivation of not only first getting my emergency fund in place, but then also get an additional war chest aside to be able to start my own gig. But what if you got enough gaming side gigs going that it almost equals your regular income? Well, I mean, if I was making enough from just the side gig, then I'd probably just go ahead and quit my job.

There you go. And if you didn't, what do you make now at your job? $79K. Okay. And so what if you were at $50K instead of $80K with side hustles, but in addition to your emergency fund, you had $30K banked as a war chest one year to cover the difference then you could quit your job too right i mean yeah i definitely uh live off of that it's no

problem yeah so the point the point is finishing the emergency fund and building the side gig hustle as big as you can build it as fast as you can build it, those two are tied together because we need more than an emergency fund to be able to just quit, or we need to replace the income with side hustle, or some combination of those two things. Does that all make sense? Yeah, it does. So now, you know, take as much side gig as you can get and work your tail end off.

Get crazy for a short period of time. And, you know, the good news is in your world, you can make a lot of money in a short period of time. You should be able to double your household income in 12 to 18 months. I see. All right. Well, it sounds like a plan and all. It's just they've got to map it out, you know? Exactly.

You've got to go get the gigs now. You've got to go get somebody to work side deals for, right? Yes. That's not in any kind of violation with your current employer. You don't want to have any ethics issues or legal issues or anything like that. But hang on. I'm going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book, The Proximity Principle, which is a wonderful book about building a career that you love.

And this will show you exactly how to do that. The proven strategy that will lead to the career you love. And it's number one bestseller. We'll send it out to you. Our gift. Hang on, man. Open phones at 888-825-5225. What I didn't ask him about, and I goofed, was I should have asked him and confirmed my suspicion that he's never had a big emergency.

Because usually if you've had a big emergency or two smack you around, life has punched your teeth out a couple times. You really see the value for the emergency fund much more than if you've never had those down times. That's my guess. It's not a problem. It's just a, you think he's looking for motivation. Good discussion. Thanks for calling, Nick. We've been voted one of the best places to work in Nashville 11 times. You want to know how we do it?

Well, our team has been using LinkedIn jobs for years to find the best people from all over the country to come and help us change lives. Think about it. LinkedIn has more than 600 million active members. I'm talking about people who come to LinkedIn to make connections, grow their careers, and discover new job opportunities. In fact, 90% of LinkedIn users are open to new opportunities, but not actively scanning job boards. This means LinkedIn Jobs gives you access to an entirely different demographic. Don't wait. One hire can change the direction of your company. Post a job today at linkedin.com slash Ramsey and get $50 off your first job post. That's linkedin.com slash Ramsey. Terms and conditions apply. Jeremiah is with us in Orlando, Florida.

Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show, Jeremiah. Hey, Dave, how you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up? Hey, well, it's great to talk to you again. I actually met you in Orlando one time, and you yelled at me, and it was great. I did not yell at you. It was awesome. Oh, that's fun.

How can I help? Well, my wife and I, we're both in Baby Step 2, and I'm seriously considering getting my CDL and doing over the road, and it would bring my income from about $40,000 to about $85,000. But the problem I'm running into, and I'm hoping I can get your advice on, is I will be pretty consistently working on the Sabbath and not seeing my wife as much. What would you say to that?

Well, it depends on how you and your family are wired um i am a serious sissy when it comes to being away from home i travel a lot but most of my travel is one or two days at a time and i'm back if i'm gone too long from my wife in my home i shririvel up. It doesn't work well for me. Other people can do that just fine. For instance, folks in the military are often deployed six months a year, even 18 months away from their families as part of their service to their country. And it's not unusual for other people to have. I've got a good friend who is a road warrior. I mean, he's a corporate sales guy, and he's gone from Sunday to Friday night every week.

And has been for years. And they, you know, it appears to be just fine for them. I've got other friends that are over-the-road truck drivers. It doesn't bother them. But I, so it's a little hard for me to relate just because it's not how I am wired. But it's not to say it's a bad thing for that. And, you know, I am not – I believe in taking my rest in Christ. Christ said, I am the Sabbath.

And so I don't work much on Sunday, but it's not because I'm real legalistic about it. It's just because I grew up in the South, and we just didn't do much on Sunday. Sunday's kind of, you know, it's the old school way of doing things. It's just drilled into my brain that Sunday's a day off. But I don't do it because I'm afraid God's not going to bless me or something. I do know that there's all kinds of productivity studies that say that God is right, that taking a day off a week is good for you. It's good for your physical being, your spiritual being, your relationships.

It's good for everything. So taking time and resting is a good thing. In that sense, Sabbath is an amazing thing so um i i just i you've got to be very very sure that um that you're comfortable with the spiritual aspects of this decision and that you're comfortable that you and your wife are comfortable with you being gone that much because otherwise there's not enough money in the world to make this okay i mean if you're just miserable i mean you could pay me 10 million dollars a year and i wouldn't do it and it's not it's not safe people to do it wrong again i'm just saying i'm a sissy about it i can't do it i'm just a wuss and um so i i and i know that

about me i know when i'm gone too much that that um i don't function well. So I'm much better off sitting here doing the show every day, the rhythm of my life. But travel is a necessary part of what I do. And I'm fine with it. I don't mind it. But just gone all the time. Anyway, all of that to say, you've got to make the call. If you are saying, gosh, I'm kind of like Dave or no, I'm more like those military guys. I can do this and it's a cake

walk for me. That's fine, but don't do it just for money. It has to be okay for the rest of the parts of your life. Is this what you want to do for the next 20 years?

And if you were to ask my military friends or my over-the-road truck driver friends, they're fine with doing it the next 20 years. It doesn't bother them a bit. It's the rhythm of their life. And so you can do that if that's how you're wired. But it sounds a little bit like you're chasing dollars here, and you're not thinking it's going to be fun and that's all that part of the conversation scaring me so i'll leave it on back on your plate i'll put hit

the ball back on your side of the net and you and your wife pray about this and make the right decision but i i'm positive in my understanding of scripture you're not going to hell for working on the sabbath um that's not an issue. You know, Jesus' blood is more powerful than violating the Sabbath in a way that causes you to lose your salvation. So that's just not what we're, you know, there's some sects of Christianity that would be that legalistic, but most of us aren't. And so, but again, setting aside time for worship, setting aside time for prayer, setting aside time for rest, yes, that should be part of anyone who has a spiritual walks rhythm of their life.

So all of that to say, you guys are going to have to pull this together and decide. Thanks for the call. Open phones at 888-825-5225. In case you haven't heard yet, our brand new event, Financial Peace Live, is debuting this fall. We're hitting four cities around the country. Seats are on sale now. And if you're sick and tired of money problems, debt payments, the stress of living paycheck to paycheck, Financial Peace Live is when we walk through the baby steps in detail right there in your neighborhood.

If you're already doing this stuff and you already know all the baby steps, it's a pep rally for you. It's a place to go where you already know the hit songs, but you can sing them with your favorite artist. Ramsey personalities. That's what we'll be doing. And so if you want to bring your reluctant spouse or bring your friends that think you're crazy or bring your grown kids that you're trying to get on board or bring your grown parents that you're trying to get on board, then that's why we come to your city. It's a local pep rally.

It's a way to gather. We're going to walk through the baby steps. We're going to laugh together, cry together, and you will leave fired up, and you'll leave with new knowledge that you didn't have before. September the 12th is Austin, Texas. Chris Hogan and Anthony O'neill will be there they will also be in tacoma washington october the 2nd october 10 is phoenix for chris and anthony i will be with hogan in charleston south carolina on november the 20th rachel cruz is off for the

fall baby number three on the way in the fall so she'll be not traveling in the third trimester and or on maternity leave during that time so it's hogan anthony and me carrying the weight here in the fall of these financial peace live events the seats are on sale now they do sell out fast go to daveramsey.com slash events or call our customer care concierge, our Ramsey concierge at 888-22-PEACE, 888-227-3223. Jump in and we'll talk. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Jason is on Facebook. Dave, I'm about to finish baby step three with my emergency fund.

My financial advisor is trying to talk me into an annual renewable term plan over the level 20 year. So you can save money on that and roll it over into a level 20 before the time period and the art costs go higher. I think you need a new financial advisor.

Annual renewable term is cheaper for a few years, but it is not cheaper over the 20 years the average of an annual renewable term over 20 times it goes up is higher than a 20 than a 20 year level plan go to zanderinsurance.com and price it out and you'll see the math of what i'm talking about and then you'll need a new financial advisor the reason the average is lower on a 20-year plan it's cheaper to buy it that way than it is with it going up every single year annual renewable term is is the most pure form of term life insurance because it

is what they actually charge at your age every year so it goes up every year the difference is is that it doesn't stay on the books well. It doesn't have what they call persistence in the life insurance world. And if they can sell a policy that stays on the books and they don't have the marketing and commission costs over and over and over again, they can sell it to you cheaper. And the 20-year level term has a tendency to stay on the books more than something that goes up every year. And every year when it goes up, you start scratching your head, huh? We'll reevaluate this. With a 20, you lock it and load it, you're done.

So I don't agree with your financial advisor. Go to ZanderInsurance.com and get your price. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. One question I get asked all the time is, do I need life insurance? Listen, the whole point of life insurance is to replace your income for someone who counts on you. So if you have a spouse or you have kids, yes, you need term life insurance. It's the only way to protect them until you're out of debt and have built up your wealth. You're only digging a deeper hole if you waste money on cash value plans since it robs you of the ability to make real progress. And that's why I send you to Zander Insurance, and I have for 20 years. That's where I get all my insurance, and they only offer the plans I recommend. It is

not expensive. It's not complicated. And Zander will be there as your guide every step of the way. Visit Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. You need to get this taken care of. I can give you the advice and I can tell you where to go. But it's really up to you to take that important step to get your family protected. That's Zander.com or 800-356-4282. Thank you for joining us, America. Tony is in Wisconsin. Hi, Tony. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show.

Hi, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I'm currently on baby step sex. Cool. And I have a land for sale that's going to be sold next June by the neighbor that owns it. Currently own my own home. I have a boat, a motorcycle, and a UTV that I'm selling. My question for you is, by the time next June hits when that land sells, I should be able to pay my house off at that point.

What is your opinion on taking that money, because I'm looking at getting into the real estate industry, and buying a duplex and living in half and renting out the other half? Oh, so selling your home. Yep, I'd be selling my house and taking all the equity, buy the duplex, there would be no loan on it, and as a way to get my feet wet in the real estate market, and then eventually save up a good down payment, if not a large down payment, to be able to buy and move out and keep the rental property. Well, I would save up and pay cash for the rental properties from that point forward. Once you've gotten free, I would never go back. So that's an immediate adjustment. Are you married?

No, my wife passed away eight years ago. I'm sorry. Children? Both growing and out of the house and out of college. Okay, so that makes it real easy for you to live wherever. Exactly. I don't have a lot of decisions around other people in that regard. You could certainly try it.

The good news is your renters are next door. The bad news is your renters are next door. So if you need to get in touch with them and make sure they pay and keep eyeballs on the property and that kind of stuff, it's very handy. They're next door. If they want a light bulb changed, you're next door. And so you've got to establish boundaries in both directions, meaning you're not going to hassle them as the landlord. But it is weird that your next door neighbor pays you money. You know, relationally, it's a little bit strange, a little bit awkward. But it is weird that your next-door neighbor pays you money, you know.

Relationally, it's a little bit strange, a little bit awkward. So you just kind of got to talk about that stuff with whoever's moving in, that they can't be trotting over there at 2 o'clock in the morning and knocking on your door going, my heat's out. They have to treat you like a landlord that doesn't live next door, and you have to treat them like a tenant that doesn't live next door. So that's the upside, the downside. The other thing that you wanted to keep in consideration about a duplex, whether you're living in it or not, is 90% of the time when a duplex sells,

I just made that number up, but it's pretty close, it sells to an investor who's going to rent both sides. When 90% of your sales are occurring to investors you have a product that primarily sells at wholesale not at retail because there's not a retail buyer for duplexes unless it's somebody's going to live in one side and they'll pay a little bit more consequently duplexes tend to in general terms not appreciate the same as a single family would of the exact same price range because a single family is 90 going to be a a retail buyer a user that's going to live in it and so you're when you someday get ready to resell it or for that matter just watch it go up in value

it might not perform as well appreciation wise as-wise as a single family would that's the exact same square footage sitting next door, that kind of a thing. So that's something to keep in mind. There's some downsides, upsides of being the landlord and the tenant next door, and there's a little bit of a downside on reselling it but overall if you're not planning to live there forever and it's just a way for you to get as you said get your feet wet in the business and then you save like crazy buy you a single family to move into of some kind you might even being a single guy you might just choose to do a condo where you don't have to screw with the uh maintenance and the you know keeping the yard cut and all that stuff uh in terms of your personal residence as the next purchase after you do this. And then you'd have two sides to the duplex producing rental income, and you'd pay cash for your next home.

Then you pay cash for the next rental beyond that, and then you're on your run. Because once you get two or three of these things paid for, a paid paid for rental property makes money because it cash flows like crazy because it doesn't have any payment coming out of it and so it's just it's wonderful wonderful and i definitely that's your downsides upsides those are some things for consideration if none of those things spook you on your plan i would go ahead with it again though everything we're doing once you get to this point is cash only we're never going dead again and that's your shortest path to building substantial wealth open phones at 888-825-5225 don is in lancaster pennsylvania lancaster hey

don how are you good thank you for taking my call, sir. Sure. In the South, we say Lancaster, but that's not how you guys say it, right? So anyway. No, no, no. It's a little different in Pennsylvania. Lancaster. Lancaster, yes. How can I help? Well, real quick, I just want to say, I got to know Donnie about six months ago.

He inspired me to sell my rental property that I had. Wow. So I thought it was a good idea. And not that it wasn't a bad idea, but I had debt with it. And so I'm selling it. It's currently on the market. And I'm hoping it will be sold the next week or so. That said, when that house is sold, it will go from being on Baby Step 2 to being on Baby Step 4, 5, and 6.

And that will proceed. It will put us over Baby Step 3, who being on Baby Step 4, 5, and 6, that'll proceed, will put us over Baby Step 3. Excellent. So in the meantime, my wife has decided to be a stay-at-home mom and she's a teacher for about seven years, and her pension is vested. So from listening to you, I understood that I should probably take that money, that pot that's there. It's about $30,000 we're talking here, so about a ton, and rolling it into a traditional IRA. Correct.

So the caveat with that is in Pennsylvania, if you were to do that and decide later on to go back to teaching, that we would then owe that $30,000 back to them again. So I guess my question is, given that situation, is that still a good idea, or where do you sit on that? I don't know why you would owe it if you're vested. Are you sure? Yeah, when we called and we figured it out, what we were told is that we would have to pay back.

If you wanted to go back... No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I think you misunderstood. I think they're saying if you wanted to go into the retirement system again that you would have to pay back if you wanted to go back. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I think you misunderstood. I think they're saying if you wanted to go into the retirement system again, that you would have to pay. You'd have to buy your years back. Correct. Yeah, but you could go back to teaching and not buy your years back.

Okay, perhaps a misunderstanding on my part and not realizing I didn't have to buy my years back. You do not have to buy your years back. I've never seen one where you did. And even if you wanted to, I would tell you not to, because of the same reasons I'm telling you to roll it and get it out of there. It's going to perform better

outside of there. For sure, because if they leave it sit there, they're saying it's just a guaranteed rate of return of 4%. Exactly. I know, and it was Team Poultry versus the unknown of whether she would go back or not rather than the known of what we're currently dealing with, which is...

Yeah, have you talked to a SmartVestor Pro yet about rolling this over? No. In your area, the SmartVestor Pro will know the answer to the discussion you and I are having 100%, but I'm 85%, 90% sure what they're telling you is if you wanted to reenter... In other words, like, she's worked for how many years uh like seven or eight okay so if she wanted to start at year seven or year eight when she went back to teaching you could buy back in and start it again which you wouldn't do that's what they're referring to not you have to buy back in right Right. Okay. It would be highly unusual to require you to do that. Now, they will start her over at year one, not at year eight, for pension calculation.

Okay. You see, because you've lost those years, you took those years out. Yes. That's what they're referring to. I'm almost positive. But ask your smart investor pro in the area before you do the rollover and get, you know, let's don't do it off some radio guy's answer, right? You need to really understand what you're getting into.

And let's say that I'm wrong and it's what you originally thought and you would have to give them the money back. Then you need to ask yourself, what's the probability of your wife going back into the classroom? If it's zero, then it doesn't matter. If it's 15%, 20% chance she ever goes back, we'll take that risk. If there's a 90% chance she's going back to teaching, then you have to think about this. Thanks for the call.

This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you for joining us, America. We're glad you're here. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Jay's in Phoenix. Hey, Jay, what's up? How you doing, Dave? Better than I deserve, man. How can I help?

Hey, my father passed away last fall, and we're finally getting through all the legal stuff and that sort of thing. I was left the house valued at about $300,000, paid for, all that kind of stuff. I'm debt-free except for my personal house. I owe

about $180,000 on that. The big deal with this is we've got some good family friends that come out. They're winter visitors every year. And they're willing to basically pay all the bills on the house until I'm ready to sell it. So I'm wondering if I should keep the house, kind of let them pay the bills on it, because I think the market's going to even go up even further than what it has, or should I sell it now, pay off my house, become debt-free?

I'm trying to figure out what the best thing for me to do. How much of this decision is emotional based on the fact that this was your dad's house? Zero. Okay. I'm just wondering if maybe a year or two years from now I can make it up to that. Where dad's house? Zero. Okay. I'm just wondering if maybe, you know, a year, two years from now, I can make an extra. Where is the house? It's only about 30 minutes from where I am.

Okay. If you had $300,000 in cash sitting in the middle of your kitchen table, would you go buy this property for someone to pay the expenses on for you while it went up? Probably not. I would probably become debt-free, and that would probably make me feel better. But like I said, I'm wondering if I can make a little bit more money if I

have somebody else pay the bills on it and make a little bit extra in a year or two. Okay. If I woke up in your shoes, what I would do, if I had $300,000 sitting in the middle of the table, would be I'd become debt-free. I would use the balance of the money to build some wealth and invest it.

And as that money grew, I might pay cash for a rental that actually produced an income, not that someone was just paying the bills on. Gotcha. Gotcha. $300,000 invested, if I want to make 10% on that, I want to make $30,000 a year profit in my pocket on $30,000, $300,000 invested. If I want to make 8% on it, it would be $30,000, but it would be $24,000. You see what I'm saying? So you need to be making $20,000 to $30,000 on a $300,000 investment. Cash, net, after all expenses expenses makes a lot of sense and um otherwise you'd be better off having invested it in mutual funds and not have to screw with it true very true good way to look at it thank you hey thanks for the call sorry for the loss of your dad makes these decisions tough. And by the way, there's no shame in the nostalgia, the legacy,

the emotion of family property entering into the decision. That's part of life. This is personal finance. And so you might do something with the family home that has been in the family for four generations differently than you would an exact same priced house that you have no emotional connection to. Now, I don't have that much of a tendency because I'm just, I've done so many real estate transactions that it kind of has calloused me to it. It's just a stupid house, I always say.

Because it is. There's a stupid house on every corner. You can get stupid houses anywhere. And people get all twisted up and torqued up about, you know, Oh, they got the perfect house. Oh, bull. There is no such thing. Come on.

Seriously. It's like there's one person in the entire world you're supposed to marry and you missed it oh come on give me a break fatalism so it's a bad theology it's a bad philosophy but it is normal and it is reasonable mental health to say this location means something special to me. I did something a few years ago that was very weird. My wife and I got in the car, and we drove to each of the properties that we have ever lived in since we got married. Went up to the door, knocked on the door,

told the people what we were doing. 100% of the people let us in. So we walked through the little two-story duplex that we lived in the first time when we first got married then we walked through the one we did not go into the one bedroom apartment after that because it's a drug-infested neighborhood now it's really dangerous and it probably wasn't much better than but in our minds it's different so we did drive down in there and didn't get shot or anything. So didn't actually go into that apartment. And then we drove to the first house that we bought, and those people let us in. And, boy, they had torn that thing all to crap.

They had 17 dogs in that house. It stunk. And then we went to the next house that we bought and lived in. And the next house that we bought that we lived in oh and then i went to my childhood home and knocked on the door and they let us in too and uh that house had shrunk considerably since i was a kid when i was a kid that was a big house but it's a it had shrunk a lot. I think it's 1,080 square feet on the main level, and Daddy and I built out the rec room when I was a teenager with studs on the walls and paneling from Lowe's.

Those little paneling nails bend and hit your fingers with a hammer. But I got to go in that old house and walk through it. That was a strange feeling. I had not been in it since I was 16 years old. So it's 40-something years since I've been in that house. But it was a very, very interesting little day. We just rode around and knocked on the door and told them, I grew up in this house.

Is there any chance? I don't understand if you don't because it's kind of weird. Is there any chance you'd let me walk through? And in every case that they were home and answered the door, they let us come in. We used to own this house. We used to live here. We first got married. This was our first house.

And so on. This was the first house we were living in when our kids were born. And so on. But what it reminds you is that it's a stupid house. None of those properties made us go, oh, it awesome property why do we ever sell it we're in every case we're like i'm so glad we're out of there life is so much better and that's not snobbish it's just your life progresses hopefully hopefully you're growing hopefully your wealth is growing hopefully your expectations and your goals and your vision for your life is growing.

And if you're doing all of that, then it is just a stupid house. But there are some items that are not just a financial transaction. They're an emotional transaction as well. For instance, I've had couples in Financial Peace University over the years. She has a $5,000 or a $10,000 engagement ring, and they've been married three years. So she's got a nice diamond. And she's like, well, you know, we're getting out of debt. We're going to sell in tents.

I'm going to sell my ring. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, you just work an extra few months and get yourself out of that you keep your ring darling we don't do that there's a few things like that that you don't get rid of uh you know now there's a couple times that stuff like that is in your life and it's become an idol and god is telling you to get rid of it because he wants your brain and your spirit to be freed up and you got a little too much emotion tied up a little too much spiritual uh i don't know oomph or emphasis tied up in that item a little too much of that item brings me happiness that's a little

scary place to be spiritually so sometimes those things are pried away from your hands i've had a couple of those in my life and that means i own them for the wrong reason and i didn't own them they partially owned my heart and so you've kind of got to walk through that stuff but all of this discussion is part of personal finance and that's where people in the financial world get so confused sometimes and they give such bad advice sometimes because they think it's only math yes math is important we need to do math but you'll often hear me walk through math but math but in in a different question or different thing that comes up here because it's it is money and it is a math equation but there's more to it than that

it's more nuanced than that there's more philosophy more theology more doctrine applied to that decision making than there is simply math it's not just math that's a naivete and you're missing out on some wisdom when you only look at it through the lens of math. Math will help you, and you ought to do math, but that's not the only way you make decisions in personal finance. That puts this hour of The Dave Ramsey Show. If you would like to do your debt-free scream live on the show, make sure you visit DaveRamsey.com slash show and register. We would love for you to come to National and tell Dave your story.