The Ramsey Show - App - There's No Shortcut to Any Place Worth Going To (Hour 2)

Episode Date: June 10, 2021

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🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. We're going to talk about your life and your money. Ken on the Ken Coleman Show, 75 radio stations, Sirius XM radio, big time podcast and YouTube channel, talks about your job, your career, finding work that matters, knowing what you're passionate about and that you're good at,

and figuring out a way to put all that together to make a really fun, good life. We're going to talk to you about that today, as well as take your questions about your life and your money. 888-825-5225. Speaking of jobs, Ken Anton is in Los Angeles with a job question. Hi, gentlemen. How's it going? Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure.

What's up? All right. So I have a bit of, I guess, a good problem to have with some options. So just wanted to get your input, and I'm so excited that Ken is on today as well. So long story short, I've been with my company for about four years now. Last year, at the end of the year, I decided that this year I was going to start looking for a new job, mainly due to reasons of lack of development. It feels a little stale. Anytime I would ask for a little bit more work or something to do, it's just kind of like, yeah,

well, we'll see what we could do. But management's not really interested in training or developing a career for anybody. So I was like, okay, I appreciate the work I do, and I'll just see what else is out there. About a month and a half ago, I got a new offer from another company, which I accepted. It came with about $17,000 of a raise and a title raise as well, so I was very excited.

When I went to give my two weeks, I spoke to my CFO at my current job, and he essentially said that he would match my salary, he would put me on a plan to have a promotion within 12 months, and he would make sure to mentor me and help me grow. So that kind of helped me make it. And I decided to stay. So he helped me make a decision to stay. Here's the problem. Nothing got put in writing. So I contacted the new job and I turned down that

offer. Nothing at my old job got put in writing. So when the raises came around, I only out of the 17,000 that he agreed to match only about nine came as a raise and the $17,000 that he agreed to match, only about $9,000 came as a raise. And the other $8,000 came as a one-time bonus that got deposited into my account, which is great for cash. But it got super taxed. And I went to talk to him about it. And he basically told me that that's the best he could do because if if he actually put the whole 17 000 raised as salary i got it the guy the guy's a jerk he didn't keep his word so what's your question so my question is you know they paid me out the the one-time bonus right and i i is it okay for

me to start looking for yes and Yes. I feel a little... This is the danger in what they did to themselves. Yeah, and it's also the danger... Not only did they lie and not keep their word, they gave you all the money up front. Well, this was stupid. And, Anton, you knew. You saw this.

You saw that there was no development. They weren't serious about pouring into you. That's a sign of a great culture, a company that develops their existing people and promotes them if those people receive the development and do a really good job. And you saw the handwriting on the wall, and yet you got talked back into doing it. It doesn't matter. I'm not trying to knock on you, but I want you to learn from this. So yes, you start looking. I'd call the other company and see if there's still an opportunity. Probably not, but I certainly would start there, and I would look, and I would hold fast to the lesson that you've just learned.

Yeah, and your CFO's getting ready to learn a new lesson. Yeah. He just gave you a signing bonus for the new company. Right, right. That's what happens when you screw people. Yeah. I just saw i just felt like it's unethical for me to you know what i mean no no let me unethical was him not you yeah he lied he lied period end of story unless you changed your story

is what you told us what really happened? Yes, sir. Okay. Then he lied, right? Yeah, yeah. I think he just put his foot in his mouth, and then when he went to do it, they... Yeah, that's a form of lying. Yeah. Dave, I see this a lot. This is poor management, and it's manipulation. A lot of managers and leaders, I wouldn't even call them true leaders.

They're weak. They're so weak, and they manipulate people, and this was a scarcity this was a scarcity move he was like okay hey i'll tell you what if you stay i'll do this and he didn't value anton he didn't have a a principal involved in the decision it was the work wouldn't go that's it i got to solve a problem i'm going to manipulate somebody well and he didn't have approval and so when he went back to he's a cfo he ought to get his own i was gonna say does he need approval yeah this is just bogus so wait let's figure this out all we got to figure out is anton you don't want to be there yeah and uh if you get a job really quick that eight thousand dollars that they put in your account extra is a bonus and that's what it costs them for not keeping their word no there's nothing unethical about

what you're doing at all the lack of ethics was on the other side of the equation. Yeah, and be encouraged. Don't get discouraged here. You found something before, you'll find other things, and now just walk forward. So don't get down on this. One year from today, don't be working there. Oh, yeah.

No. Ow. Ow. Ow! So, you know, how do you keep good people? Well, number one, you develop them. See, good people want to advance. You give them a track to become more, to move up, and you give them training to move up that track. Oh.

And you keep your word. Yes. Why is this hard? Yeah. Do what you say you're going to do. Yeah. That's why there's no competition. Yeah.

Because most people won't work hard and tell the truth. That's right. You can beat most people by just working hard and telling the truth. Yeah. Most people can't even do that. Yeah. And so that's why there people can't even do that. Yeah. And so that's why there's no real competition out there. So, yeah.

Anton, hit the road. You know, Dave, there's also a leadership lesson here for people listening to this show that lead people. Don't make leadership so daggum complicated. Again, same advice. Don't lie to people. And if you give them a ladder, show them a ladder where they can grow with with you and then develop them so they can do it as dave just said recognize them reward them and keep them in a place where they're doing really really good work and they enjoy it they will stay with you for a very very long time but don't over complicate this don't try to manipulate people by

the way dave we know this from data. People don't leave companies. They leave leaders. They leave their manager. That's exactly right. They get tired of that guy, that gal. And being jerked around, being kept in the dark, not being told what's going on,

not being given anything to do that you can actually measure the traction on. This is just not that hard. No. On Trade Leadership, we teach this stuff all the time. Yeah, go dive into that. Yeah, it's the whole thing there.

Ken Coleman is my co-host today. This is Common Sense for your life. Common Sense for your dollars and cents. It's the Ramsey Show. In an uncertain world, being a good steward of your money is more important than ever. While some circumstances can't be controlled, there are items within your budget you can take charge of, such as your health care costs. For nearly 40 years, Christian Health Care Ministries, or CHM, has provided a budget-friendly means of sharing for medical bills when our members need it. Learn more by visiting chministries.org slash budget. That's chministries.org slash budget.

If you're in debt, it can feel like you're constantly at war with all those freaking bills. And sometimes it feels like the bills are winning. You might wonder if you're ever going to get ahead. Well, listen, it does not have to be like this. You can pay off all the debt. And when you do, you'll finally move forward. You'll build the kind of life you want with your money, and we'll show you how. We'll show you in Ramsey Plus.

With this membership, you'll learn how to take control of your money and ditch your debt for good. Plus, you get all the tools you need to make it happen. You can get ahead. Ramsey Plus includes Financial Peace University, Every Dollar Premium, which ties to your bank, community, coaching, all kinds of things there to walk with you, help you, make sure you do the stuff you hear us talk about here every day on the air. Text the word TRIAL to 33789 for a free trial of Ramsey Plus. It's a free trial of Ramsey Plus. Text TRIAL to 33789. Jay is with us in Tampa. Hi, Jay. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. Hey, Ken. I hope you're both having a great day. Thank you so much for taking

my call. Our pleasure. How can we help? So my question for you guys is sort of a two-parter. First, I have an old employer-sponsored IRA that was transferred to a trust company. I'd like to move that money, but I don't know if I should move it to my new employer's sponsored 403B or if I should open a Roth IRA because I don't have one yet, move the money there, and kind of take any penalties or anything that may come along with that. There's no penalties, and I would roll it to a traditional IRA, not a Roth, in good mutual funds. How much money is in the account? It's not a lot. It's like $1,500. Okay. Just click SmartVestor at DaveRamsey, R-A-RamseySolutions.com,

and find a SmartVestor pro in your area. They can help you with the paperwork and open up an IRA, and you just roll it to that. Someday later, when you're out of debt and you have some extra money, then you would just use that to convert it from a traditional to a Roth, because that makes the taxes come due. There is no penalties on what we're talking about. But here, folks, when you leave your job you always take your retirement with you if you can if you've got a 401k you can't if you got a

employee sponsored thing lump sum you can't and you always roll it to a traditional IRA where there's no taxes in good mutual funds that way you have better investment options and you have more control. Always take your retirement with you and never put it, there's no reason to put it into the new employer. None whatsoever. Michael is in Alaska. Hey, Michael, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Thank you.

It's a pleasure to be talking to you. You too. What's up? Hey, so I just got a quick question. I got a little bit of consumer debt and I own a home, so I got a little bit of equity. You too. What's up? on the APR and stuff like that and then just throw that equity loan into my debt snowball? I wouldn't. Okay. You want to know why?

Why? Because you're going to feel like you did something and you didn't do anything. All you did was move it. Now listen, all you did was move it. Interest rate's not your problem lack of a budget lack of focus lack of attacking this is your problem you need to get fired up and pissed off about being in debt okay and get after your debt list it smallest to largest pay minimum payments on everything but the little one and get after it because here the problem when people move debt around

they use words like pay it off you didn't pay it off you moved it and two percent savings on the interest rate is not your issue your issue is getting focused getting on a budget living on beans and rice selling so much stuff the kids think they're next get fired up and wired up baby that's what does it that's what moves the needle ken we there's so much of what you teach about jobs and what we teach here that is about action it's um motive which leads to motivation yes personal finance is 80% behavior. It's only 20% head knowledge. There's so much about a job, choosing a career, stepping into something

that is about, you know, don't try to trick it. Don't try to trick your way past the hard work. There's no shortcut to any place that's worth going, Beverly Seals used to say. She's absolutely right. And so why are you going after it? You've got to remind yourself on the journey, why am I doing this?

I get that it takes time. You know, if you walked out on the street today with a camera and a microphone and you asked people, are you willing to do whatever it takes to get where you want to go, whether it be career or in your money, most people look at you and instantly say, absolutely. But if I followed up and I said, well, but I think they mean that. But then here's the follow-up question. If I said, are you willing to wait as long as it takes? That's exactly what happens. They literally can respond that way. Here's why.

There's something about the human condition where we want everything now. That's what this journey is all about. It's what Dave talks about all the time. The budget helps you control the behavior issue to where you go, hey, this is a long slog. This is going to take time. And so you have to, whether it's in your career and doing work that you deeply want to do because you know you were put on this planet to do it, or it's paying off debt and saving money so that you can live like no one else, all of this is the same exact conversation. You want to live like no one else?

You want to work like no one else? It's going to take time, and you better have the big picture in mind and know that this is a climb but it is going to be worth it when i get there there's no shortcut there is is not a shortcut a generation ago there was one of the world's best golfers was a guy named gary player yes and the story's been told about him over and over and over again through the years that he was warming up at a tournament uh on the driving range and he's you know pulling back that driver and sailing that ball out there 300 360 350 yards whatever just popping that drive straight as a string and this guy walks up behind him goes i would give anything to hit a golf ball like that and i think i think he caught him at the wrong moment because he turned around and said, no, you

wouldn't. Yeah. It's a fantastic story. No, you wouldn't. Yeah. You would not stand out here in the heat and hit 2,000 golf balls. Hit golf balls so long that you get blisters. Hit golf balls so long that the blisters bust.

Hit golf balls so long that you can't hold the golf club anymore from the busted blisters. You tape up your hands and you hit another 1 balls you wouldn't do that yeah that's right you wouldn't do anything to hit a golf ball like that to which the poor guy just said i'm sorry i asked you know but just you know but that's the thing you know i i would do it no you wouldn't you got you got to be willing to do it and so that's the thing and i'm not picking on michael here that's not the issue but the issue is there's a thing about uh action and paying the price live like no one else so that later you can live like no one else that supersedes a little bit of interest saved by moving it to a helot so true 88 of the people that move their debt over for debt consolidation go further into debt don't

get out of debt yeah nine out of ten times yeah it's interesting they don't change their habits to put them in there in the first place that's right they feel like they did something and that's dangerous to feel like you did something when you did nothing yeah you know there's a theme here we're talking about folks that dave just brought up you got to be passionate about getting out of debt that gazelle intensity where's that come from passionate about the next job you got to be passionate about doing work that you were created to do to help people. So what's fun is you do a word exercise, and there's a German word, and there's also a Greek word. The root word of passion means to suffer. Now, here's the deal.

When it's rice and beans, beans and rice, gazelle intensity, working three or four jobs. The last couple times I've been on the show, we've had single moms, back-to-back shows, who paid off an enormous amount of debt with multiple kids doing everything. That is suffering. It's to suffer. That means these people know it. The word passion, folks, this isn't like some romantic

motivational poster word. This is, I am willing to suffer to go through pain and withhold pleasure, that's what that means, in order to get an outcome that I desire greatly. Whether it's starting a business, inventing a product or service, getting out of debt, losing weight, changing your relationships, your marriage, I'm going to tell you something.

Passion. You've got to be willing to suffer for that outcome. There you go. This is The Ramsey Show. Thank you. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Sam and Natalie are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? We're good. How are you? We're good. How are you?

Very good. Where do you guys live? We live in Minnesota. Oh, wow. What part? Just south of Minneapolis. Okay. Fun.

Good to have you guys. Welcome. And how much debt have you paid off? Dave, we paid off 320K. 320K. And how long did this take? 58 months. Okay. okay cool good for you and your range of income during that time we went from about 115 uh last year we did 205 and we'll probably hit two and a quarter

this year good for you what do you guys do for a living i'm an operations manager and and i'm a stay-at-home mom to these four amazing kids that we have here with us. I love it. So I'm guessing with 58 months and $320,000, did you guys pay off your house? We sure did. Woo! Look at it, weird people. I love it.

Good for you guys. And it took you five years, huh? Yep. Wow. Amazing. How old are you two? I'm 39. I'm 36.

All right. And what's this house worth? This is a crazy market. They got it at about $475. And it's all yours. Yeah, that's right. How does it feel to not have a payment in a stinking world, man? That's amazing.

It's still sinking in, to be honest. Wrapping our heads around it. Yeah, it's still sinking in. Pretty amazing. Well, tell me the story. What in the world happened here? Well, I've always been kind of money-driven, kind of money-focused. But I was out in Denver, and I was buzzing around the AM radio.

And I heard this Southern guy come on the radio, and he was talking all about money and interviewing people about money. And I was glued. I was hooked. And anyway, I just turned it off. I parked the car, and it was i was glued i was hooked and anyway i just turned it off i parked the car and that was it and um i was out there again another trip a couple months later and i i found you again on the radio and i was leaving denver and but before i did that i i pulled over and i was like this guy's got to have a podcast or something and so sure enough i found

your podcast downloaded it and then i binged it from Denver to Minneapolis, no stopping. Oh, you drove. Oh, my gosh. All the way home. The whole way. The whole way. And I was just hooked. And so, you know, I got home, and I said to Nat, I'm like, hey,

we've been doing this, doing that. I'm like, we got a new goal. You know, we got a new goal. We got a new plan here. And we talked budget, and that was not the easiest thing to introduce, but she was... I was up to my eyeballs in babies and toddlers. I was not sure I wanted to take on a whole nother challenge. He was doing such a good job with my finances.

I was like, let's just keep doing what we're doing. But he wasn't going to let it go. I just wanted to step it up a little bit. And anyway, Ken Coleman there, he was the MC

of the Rachel Cruz Les Parrott Marriage and Money event that you guys did in Minneapolis a few years ago. Natalie and I went to that and Natalie really connected with Rachel's message about permission to spend um we've always we've we've lived a really frugal life you know like

we've always had hand-me-down clothes and we've shopped at goodwill thrift stores stuff like that we've always been pretty tight but um when she was talking about permission to spend and putting that in the budget i couldn't really wrap my head around that. And then as she talked it through, I was like, okay, this is going to make life easier. And so I was like, let's try it. Let's go ahead and try it. Because I won't stop when I see something like when our kids need clothes, I won't be like, oh, I don't know. I don't know if I want to spend that. But the permission to spend is a big big yeah it is that's really what the budget is it's because you decided together that this meets our goals and we have this much allocated to this so you have to spend it on that because that's what that's what it's for yeah that's awesome yeah so was that a moment

where the budget thing was a little bit like i don't know and then when she gave you that psychology on that it was like oh now the budget's not this big, nasty monster. Yeah, it flipped it upside down. Very interesting. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. I grew up working from a really young age.

And when we had our first daughter, I was going to stay home and take care of the kids. So not having an income going into things together, I was like, I can't spend anything. And I felt terrible spending money that he was bringing home. So that kind of gave it a purpose that it wasn't his money. It was our money together. And that also really helped having that budget put there. Yeah. Wow.

Way to go, guys. And your house is paid for. At the end of the story, touchdown. Yep. It's all about downloading and binging a podcast. Pretty much. And it didn't stop there, Dave. I just submerged myself in your material from there on out.

And it was a big motivator to stay focused and keep the task at hand. Way to go, you guys. We're so proud of you. Well done. Who are your biggest cheerleaders? Oh, my gosh. We have such a good network of friends at home, our family. They've all just been super supportive and have really helped us along the way.

That's good. Good. Well done, you guys. So well done. Proud of you. Now that you're done and you don't have a payment in the world, what are you going to do next? You know, we're going to travel a little bit more. Good.

And we're going to be more giving. You know, we're going to give back a little bit more, I think. Good. Good. That's a good answer. Well done. Good job. Well, we. That's a good answer. Well done. Good job. We got a copy of the legacy journey for you. That is definitely where you are. You're going to bring a whole new legacy into your world because of what you've done.

And a copy of the total money makeover for you to give away, pay it forward, and get somebody else on this journey with you. Give them the encouragement of your story because you got quite a testimony. Very, very well done. And you brought the kiddos with you. What are their names and ages? Let's get them up into the shot. All right. So we got Brad.

He's 14. We've got Maddie. She's 10. And Macy's 9. And Alita is 6. All right. Good looking guys. Now, all the way from Minneapolis, if they've been practicing a death screen.

A couple times. Yeah. I think we're going to know what we're doing. I think we'll pull it off. All right. Good deal. Good deal. Good deal. Sam and Natalie, Bradley, Maddie, Macy, and Alita,

$320,000 paid off in 58 months, making $115,000 to $2.25. House and everything! These are weird people. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! three two one we're debt-free yes they did it there you go kiddos yeah boom i love it very well done you guys very well done that's amazing it

changes everything yeah really. It really does. You look at four kids, and you look at the legacy they've been handed. And they're not even 40 years old. No. And they have a paid for $500,000 house. Game changer. Wow. It changes everything.

I mean, if you just take a house payment from 40 years old and invest a house payment from 40 to 65, it's going to be millions upon millions of dollars. That one thing, just that one thing, your most powerful wealth-building tool is your income. And when you don't give it to Countrywide, when you don't give it to Toyota Motor Credit, Ford Motor Credit, when you don't give it to MasterCard, who named that anyway? When you don't give it to Discovered Bondage, when you don't give it to American Distress, when you have your most powerful wealth-building tool and you invest it from 40 to 65 it's millions of dollars everyone in america should be a millionaire instead we build tall buildings in the skyline for major corporations

that are screwing you yeah it's time to stop it they stopped it they're free they broke the chains off you see superman ripped the chains off oh Did you see Superman rip the chains off? Oh, yeah. He just busted them off. No more kryptonite in that house. No. Pretty cool stuff, dude. Yeah. I love it.

I love what she said about Rachel's talk. One line in there changed the entire attitude towards the discipline. It wasn't holding us. The budget wasn't holding us down. It was freeing us up. Fantastic decision. It was freeing us up. Fantastic decision. It's amazing. I mean, permission to spin. Yeah.

That's why people love Rachel because she's so nice. Yeah, she says it way nicer than you, Dave. I know. And I'm just so... You're like, do a budget or you're an idiot. Stop it. Hey, guys. Don't stop it.

Hey, guys. It's permission to spin. And it works. It works. So good. Stop it. Hey, guys, it's permission to spin. And it works. It works. So good. Stop it. This is the Ramsey Show. Thank you. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Earl is in Kansas City.

Hey, Earl, how are you? I'm doing well, thank you very much. My situation is very simply this. I'm a minister. I've been in a nonprofit ministry now for eight years, and for the last seven years I've been running a program to help men get off their feet. If they have mental disorders, we help them get med compliant to go on with their life. If they have addictions, we help them get clean compliant to go on with their life. If they have addictions,

we help them get clean. I teach about 20 different classes. After my program, which is six weeks, they go on to a nine-month-long program to really help them get stable. The reason why I'm calling is about six months ago, they hired a new chief operating officer to run ministries. And she's coming in and making so many changes that I'm really sort of going to be on the sideline now. And that's okay. If it makes the ministry better, I'm all for that 100%. However, a week ago, I sent an email and I said, hey, can you tell me exactly what my job's going to be? Because I'm not certain.

In writing, can you tell me what I'm going to be doing? They have not responded yet. And I'm just feeling, you know, I've ministered to over a thousand men in this time. And I've built this ministry so much. And now the person's coming in, and I'm not mad at them. I don't have sour grapes. I just want to be used of God.

I have so many talents that aren't being used right now. I've thought about doing something else. I just don't know what to do and still remain in God's will and still be a servant of the Lord to use the gifts that I have. Well, Earl, first of all, let's acknowledge the fact that you may not have sour grapes and you may not be mad, but you're hurt. And you need to acknowledge that. And that just is a painful situation.

While I don't know the details, as it sounds like you do either, the fact that you emailed, I think that's a great step. Hey, what does a win look like for me? That's essentially what you asked in a very clear email, and there's been no response in over a week. So that's not healthy. And even in ministries, there's poor leadership. Poor leadership exists everywhere because we live in an imperfect world. But I want to address the big thing that you're feeling is that you don't know what to do to remain in the call. And that's just simply not true. You don't know the details yet. And because you haven't even decided, hey, am I supposed to leave?

I think probably that's coming in your future. I think you need to be exploring that. But you're going to continue to do the same type of work, whether specifically exactly like what you've been doing. Don't overthink that. But the fact is, until you feel a release from ministry, you're still supposed to be in ministry.

And there's so many ways that you can do that, whether that be in a nonprofit or a parachurch ministry like you've been in or in the church itself. But I don't want you to be so discouraged that, hey, I've poured so much of myself into this ministry the last seven, eight years, I don't know what I'll do next. You don't the details but you but you do know you're still going to

serve people do you understand what i'm saying and you do know you're going to do something similar to what you used to do that was where you were you were you were in a zone that's exactly right yeah well i i can't i can't it may not be there but you do none of what you've done in the past is lost. That's right. Oh, no question. I'm not talking about the people you served. I'm talking about it's not lost in that it became experience in your brain.

You're better at what you do now than you were 10 years ago. Agreed? Oh, yes. I appreciate that. If I go for a week without preaching or teaching, I'm like, I can't wait to get back. Okay, so Earl, right there. Right there's the answer. You need to be preaching and teaching. Don't make it any more complicated than that.

So now it's not what I'm doing, it's where I'm going to do it. Hey, God, it feels like this door is closing. So open up a door. Show me. I mean, you know this, man. The Bible says without faith it is what impossible to please yeah so at this moment you're hurting and i understand that i would i would maybe ask for one more clarification if i get another delay of three or four days brother i wouldn't read into that that that is a sign and it's time to move on and i'd be looking

but you know exactly what you need to be doing. It's now where can I preach? Where can I teach? Where can I pour into men the least of these? And that's what you've been doing. So you're in the Kansas City, Missouri area. There's a lot of ministries, whether it be, again, in the local church or the parachurch ministry, even outside of Kansas City. This is a function of you saying, God, I understand this door is closing.

I'm going to continue to do the same type of thing but now in a different place earl yes i thought you want to hear so i thought you cut me off that's good that's fantastic that's going to work i also have i'm a gifted writer i'm a gifted musician i've got so much to offer yeah the answer is so you you need to change your narrative it's not that you don't know what you're going to what you're going to do you don't know where you're going to do it that's just part of this deal yeah good job earl you got this that stinks dave because you know it's bad there's poor leadership in ministry as well. It's just bad. Listen, if they don't have a seat for him because of the changes, it is unkind to be unclear.

Ignore the guy for a week. He's a gentle, serving, kind guy, and all you've got to do is look at him and tell him the truth. That's the only kind thing you can do. Whatever the truth is. We've got a big deal we're cooking up for you over here, or we've got a big deal we're cooking you out of here. Whatever it is, tell him. That's all you've got to do.

It's cowardice. 100%. Leadership cowardice. They're going to ignore this guy's email for a week because they don't know how to tell him. Maybe he's not in the big picture anymore. And it kills a guy like that. When I first started leading, bossing people, in the name of being nice, I wouldn't tell people the truth. I know that's hard to imagine.

But I would just beat around the bush or I would just delay I don't want to say something I don't want to have a hard conversation with somebody and I thought that was being nice and I finally realized to be unclear is to be unkind

one of the greatest leadership lessons you can ever learn that little phrase right there to be unclear is to be unkind it requires courage unclear is to be unkind. It requires courage and strength to be kind. And look at someone and say, you've served this place a long time, a thousand men. We're taking a left turn here, a right turn here, and we don't have a seat for you when the music stops. And we want to honor you

and honor the work that you've done and help you on to your next thing. Yeah. And that should have been the response five minutes after that email sent. Because this ministry that this lady's running is not that big. No. He's down the hall. Oh. She walked past him seven times.

Oh, yeah. It's just cowardice. Just cowardice. Yep, that's right. Jessica is questionable whether we're going to get to you or not. Go real fast, Jessica. Hi, I live in Tallahassee, and I bought a house a couple of years ago, and I'm buying it from the owner, so I don't have a mortgage or anything as far as, like, interest involved.

But I need to put a roof on my house, and I'm just starting on baby step one, and I'm trying to find out, like, should I continue with my baby step one and just continue to build it up until I have enough of a roof on my house? Yeah, you need $1,000 before you need a roof. Is the roof leaking? It does. I mean, I have tarps on it, but it's like after about three or four months and the sun bleaches the tarps out and I have to replace them again.

And that's like $250, $350. What's it take to put a roof on the house? I've been quoted $5,000, and they want to help me out because I'm a single mom. So I'm really hoping to go with that company, but that quote was pre, it was 2019 when I got it. Yeah, you need to get some more quotes. This house is not that big. No, it's not very big at all.

Yeah. What do you make, honey? I usually, less than 30, 28. Yeah. Five grand's a lot of money in your world. Yeah. Are you in a good church? If you're not in a good church, get in one or find a local pastor and tell him your story

and ask him if there's some guys in the church that can help you out. Yes. This is an opportunity for somebody to help, and you need some help right now. Now, blue tarps ain't cutting it. I don't blame you. I'm sorry. That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer for The Ramsey Show.

This episode is over, but if you heard about an event, product, or service and didn't have a chance to write it down, don't worry. We list everything you've heard about during this episode in the podcast show notes section or head to theramseyshow.com. Thanks for listening.