The Ramsey Show - App - There's No Shortcut to Getting Out of Debt (Hour 1)

Episode Date: December 19, 2019

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us, America. We're so glad you're with us.

Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Merry Christmas, America. We're glad you're here. Angela's with us in New Mexico. Hi, Angela. How are you? I'm doing well.

How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I was calling because it's a long story short, but my husband had fathered three children before we got married. He has separate child support orders on all three of them. They're three different moms, and together it's a combined total debt of $58,000. And I didn't know if we should do like your traditional debt snowball on this

or how we would go about tackling this. I don't feel like the debt snowball would be good because I don't want to like pay for one child and the other two are not receiving any money. Well, that would be a good sentiment. Thank you for that. How much other debt do you guys have? About $5,000. We have a small car loan and a small... And what's your household income? About $35,000. Okay.

All right. So just one of you working? Yeah, I work full-time. I make $17 an hour. What does he do? He's always wanted to own his own business, and so this year he decided that he was going to try and start a landscaping company, but it's very seasonal, and there's not a whole lot of work right now.

Okay, but did he start it before winter? Yes, he started it in April, and he was making about $500 to $1,000 a month from that. Okay. So it's not working out. No. Okay. And I mean, unless he has a plan to get his income up 10x, he needs to get a job, doesn't

he? Yes. Okay. Yes. Okay. Yes. Your nervous laughter tells me he's sitting on his butt not doing that. Not exactly. Well, what exactly is he doing? Well, he is at home with our, we have two children together.

So he is at home with our we have two children together um so he is at home with them right now but um uh while they're at school and and and stuff then he's not really doing much he's marketing the business and bull if he's marketing his business he'd be making more than five hundred dollars yeah um okay i um so as kindly as i can i need to just say out loud that there's a guy that owes fifty eight thousand dollars for three children that he's not taking care, and he's doing zero about it, and that's kind of not okay. Was that kind? Because I'm feeling a little bit more unkind than that down inside of me after hearing this story.

So not directed towards you, but this guy needs to take care of the children that he is bound legally and morally to take care of, including the two that he's taking care of at home there. And that means he needs to get off his butt. Okay, that's that and that I won't get any meaner than that. But that's, that's what I'm because I, you know, and his wife is calling me more concerned about the children that, that aren't even hers in a moral good way.

A lady of ethics, a lady of honor and standards is what you are. So, yeah, he needs to go make like $40,000, $50,000 a year, working like 60, 80 hours a week, and pay this back child support off is what he needs to do. And that's what he should do starting now, ready, set, go. And so, because I think there's two things involved i mean not only is there the uh the mothers of the children that you uh uh that you would have to negotiate with um and and get started with this thing on uh but there's also the state that's involved and in

some states they'll put you in jail if you are not actively addressing this stuff. Yeah, we did have the police show up at our door one time. Are you paying something on it now? Is that what's holding them at bay? No, we're just kind of, I guess he's just flying under the radar right now. I'm not sure exactly how, but he did get his license revoked also. This guy's really struggling, isn't he? Yeah.

Which is leaving you in a real pinch too. I think he just feels like there's no hope. Yeah. Like he'll never be able to pay it off. Yeah. There's 100% chance there's no hope using the program he's using now in his life, which is behaving in a way that causes him to lose his license and create no income. Yeah. So he's got to change behaviors, and that's your only shot here.

Yeah, I mean, no, I would not debt snowball and pick one of these children over the other. But overall, we've've uncovered a significant income problem that is created by a significant hopelessness on his part, which is also created by his series of behaviors. Because what you're described all through this conversation is a guy who's struggling to work, to do the right thing. He's struggling in a lot of areas. So if he were my friend and I were sitting with him a cup of coffee, here's what I'd tell him. I think you need to find a really good church in your area and find a pastor who is kind but is also very, very tough and strong,

who will speak into his life and help him form some of the things that he's missing in his character to be able to serve those children, you and your children, and he'll get great joy when he turns his life around in that regard because right now he has no joy uh there's no dignity in the way he's behaving now and it's not it's not helping him and it's not impressive uh and it's probably hard on your marriage it's probably hard on you i mean you're the only one doing anything in this story. So he desperately needs to get some good men in his life to walk with him and help him get on a better track than he's on overall. And then the net result of that can be a better income. And the net result of that

can be that the back child support bill gets taken care of. But this is all a symptom, not a problem. The problem is the way he's running his life right now. And so there's spiritual elements and character elements missing. And that's what I would tell him if he was my best buddy or a guy I know well enough to tell him that. I would grab him around the neck and say, we're going to walk together, buddy, and I'm going to be patting you on the back and lifting you up and kicking your butt. So just get ready for all of it.

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Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, thank you. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas to you. How can I help? Well, I just started listening to your program. Also, just bought and read your book and super excited. I paid off my credit card this month. Yay! Thank you. I'm looking at two debts that I'm trying to order and I'm a little bit confused. I took a 403B loan

basically because I had to sell a house and I needed money to do some repairs to sell the house and that is um twenty five thousand dollars and i also have a car loan and that the car loan is less money than the 403b loan but i didn't understand and now i'm concerned some people are talking about 402b loans like they're terrible so i'm not sure if i should really work on that first now we're just going to list the debts smallest to largest and we'll work on them in that order, like we talk about in the book. And so you have a 403B loan and the car loan. Is that it?

Yes. Okay. Yeah, and the car loan is smaller, so we're going to pay it first. Pay it first. Okay. Thank you. That's it. Yeah, which, oddly enough, will help you because here's the thing about the 403B loan.

You cannot pay it systematically. You have to pay it in one lump sum or pay the payment that they have set up. Okay? And so you will not be able to add $1,000 or add $2,000. You'll have to save up the $25,000 and then pay it off at one time. Okay. Oh. Yeah, they won't let you do that. So that's the, you know.

But either way, the good news is that you'll have the car payment freed up because you will have paid it off first. That'll be your plan. All right, Martin is on the line in Canada. Hi, Martin. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hello, Dave. Hey, what's up?

Sure. show hello dave hey what's up sure um so i'm getting out of a very toxic relationship uh we're together on and off for eight years we have two children thankfully we are on board with 50 50 right down the middle nobody owes anybody money um we split the benefits, everything like that. I'm wondering, I don't have any debt. I have about $18,000 saved up. I'm wondering if I should, during this scenario, buy a house or rent. Now, rent around here for a two- or a three-bedroom is roughly $1,300 plus hydro and then everything else on top. And I see that mostly mortgages are about the same price. Well, if you're 100% debt free and you have your emergency fund plus a down payment

and you buy a home where the payment is no more than a fourth of your take-home pay on a 15-year fixed, that's the guidelines that we have always taught. The only hesitation I would have in this situation is, number one, is this a divorce or you guys were shacked up? Common law. So have you got to go through a legal proceeding or not? Well, we already had a separation agreement done earlier this year we reconciled three months yeah but is there something that needs to be finalized before you buy a house and screw up your agreement um probably to re-sign the agreement yeah yeah because

i think in the case this was a divorce in the states you would want the divorce to be final before you talked about buying a house so the equivalent of that is what you want because this could get drugged back into the deal and you don't want to do that so that's thing one and thing two is is you've gone through a breakup as you described toxic in eight years and two kids uh you know you're probably you know things are probably going to change in your life, and it might be a good idea just to rent for six months and just kind of get emotionally, get your feet under you and decide what your future looks like and all these kinds of things. Buying a home is a very permanent kind of a decision.

It's not permanent, but it's a kind of, it's a very, you know, you're signing up for stuff here, dude. And so renting is like, I'm going to camp a little while and kind of get my feet under me after this mess, let the toxicity flow out of my emotions and, you know, get squared around doing a budget by myself and what it feels like to be a single guy and, you know, get all that kind of stuff done then because you might make a different decision. You would make a different decision, likely, on what you would buy six months from now versus today, because your brain's going to be in a different place. That's my only concern.

But if you're debt-free, have your emergency fund plus your down payment, then we're okay with people buying around here. We don't yell at you for doing that. Connor is with us in virginia hi connor welcome to the dave ramsey show thanks dave uh how are you better than i deserve what's up so i'm wondering how long is too long to be in baby step 3b um how long are you thinking i'm thinking like 14 to 16 months oh Oh, that's fine. To save up the down payment. That's right.

The thing you just don't want to do is you just don't want to abandon retirement savings. So if you said 14 years, I would say no. You know? Yeah. I'm not going to save for retirement for 14 years. No, I'm not going to tell you to do that. Okay? But, you know, usually we say about three years is probably a good maximum.

Might be a situation where you'd go to four. But, I mean, you start getting up past five years, you're not investing for retirement. Using the Baby Steps program that we teach, that's too long then. You start to be in a problem. But 14 months is fine, dude. Thank you for the call. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Our question of the day comes from Blinds.com.

You can find out for yourself why Blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings with free samples, free shipping, new promos all the time. Always use the promo code Ramsey. It's a magic name. It'll get you deals. Ramsey at blinds.com. Samantha's in New York. They've recently switched companies, and in my role,

I pay for a lot of client meals and events, usually about $1,000 a month. In the past, I've always had a company credit card for these expenses, but with this new company, I'm required to pay for it on my own up front. My question is, is it worth it to get a personal credit card? No. No. No. The first thing I would do is walk in there and just go,

guys, I'm really not in a position to be the bank for this big company and loan you guys money every month or go in debt on your behalf. So you guys need to furnish me a credit card. That's the first thing I would do. Now, if that doesn't work, what I would do is get a separate debit card, a separate checking account just for business expenses, and I'd put $1,000 in that account. And then you would use that $1,000 to buy the stuff that you're supposed to be buying

only for business, only reimbursable expenses. Then you would get the $1,000 reimbursement back and put the $1,000 back. It will not cost you anything except you had to post the first $1,000 to Prime the Pump. And after that, then, you know, you're just going to turn in your receipts because you're not going to use this account for anything except business expenses that are reimbursable. That's the only thing you would consider doing. And, you know, you just, you're going to get caught into stuff here, Samantha, that's just stupid. People do this all the time. I'm going to take out a credit card, just use it for business expenses, and then they don't, they don't, it runs up and they end up with a balance on the stupid thing because they bought stuff that was not reimbursable expenses. And then

they're stuck. And I know you think you're not going to do that, but let me tell you the number of people that do the thing you're talking about doing and do it all the time is almost zero. Almost everyone abuses this card. And don't put yourself in a position that you have to be like superhuman in your discipline in order to win. That's silly. When you play with snakes, you will be bitten. Now, some people are better at playing with snakes than others. But at the end of the day, everyone that plays with snakes eventually gets bitten. And that's true with credit cards.

They're snakes. Credit card companies are snakes. Don't be a snake handler. That's what it comes down to. Just don't go there. Number one, the company ought to be furnishing you the... Isn't it amazing that corporate America has run such a con on its employees that employees all over the nation are running around acting as a bank for these big companies,

loaning them money to operate their businesses. And then they pay the bill every month, most of the time. But if they don't pay the bill, you know who gets to pay the bill, don't you? You. It's your stupid credit card. So you don't use... Just wrong. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Did you? In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, standing on the debt-free stage,

Stephen and Holly are with us. Hey, guys. How are you? Hey, Dave. How's it going? Better than I deserve. Merry Christmas. Where are you from? Houston, Texas. All right. Welcome to Nashville. And all the way up here to do a debt-free screen. Yes, sir.

How much have you guys paid off? $94,606. Love it. How long did this take? 24 months. Good. And your range of income during that time? $106,000 to $116,000. Very good. What do you two do for a living? I'm a football coach and a teacher. I'm a sixth grade teacher. Ah, a couple teachers. All right. Very good. Good for you guys. So what kind of grade teacher. Ah, a couple teachers. Yes, sir. Very good. Good for you guys. So what kind of debt was this? $95,000. A little bit of everything.

We had a student loan, my truck, and then her Jeep, a little bit of medical, and that about covers it. It's pretty much normal. Yes, sir. Normal, just bopping along. And how long have you guys been married? Two and a half years. Two and a half years.

Okay. So you get married and then game on. Yes, sir. So tell me the story. What caused you to do this? This is one of the first things you do when you get married. Yeah, our church, Second Baptist Church in Houston, was holding FPU classes. And we got into it as soon as we got married and realized real quick that we wanted to set a different lifestyle for our family and our future.

And, you know, we got together and made a goal to pay all our debt off in that two-year period and worked like crazy to do it. Wow, very good. Now, that's Pastor Young's church, right? It is. I spoke there, yeah. Yeah, you were there at the time that we started the class. That's right.

That's about the time they kicked off a church-wide Financial Peace University initiative. What a great church and a great man. Yes, sir. What a wonderful organization. So, very cool. Well, congratulations, you guys. Thank you. You're exactly who he had in mind when he decided, Pastor, when he decided to do this for the whole church.

It's been a huge blessing. Being both teachers, you know, going to the church that we go to, it's been really incredible to see the support we've had through it all. Four weeks into marriage, we actually got flooded by Hurricane Harvey. Of course. Yeah, of course. And so we got to go through that experience,

and our church just continued to bless us. And we got to see that people who had lived a debt-free lifestyle support us through that moment in time. We realized really quickly that that's the kind of lifestyle we want to live so we can give to other people as well. Wow. Way to go. Very cool. Very cool. You're scratching cloth through this.

How old are you two? 26. I'm not 26. 27. Wow. 100% debt- this. How old are you two? 26. I'm not sick. 27. Wow. And 100% dead free, except the house. Yes, sir. Wow.

Way to go. Way to go. How does it feel? Awesome. Awesome. It feels amazing. Yeah. Like I said, it's a huge blessing.

And to be able to say that we don't owe anybody any money, it's pretty cool. Okay. Now now you had the truck i did who had the most student loans i did oh so you're like the culprit in this i am yeah exactly she married into it a little bit for sure yeah all right so when you guys went through the class obviously you were newly married you're ready to get rid of this. It was easy to talk you into trying something new, right? So what was it that happened where you went, wow, I never thought about that that way? So, yeah, I'm the nerd in the group for sure. I had the spreadsheet going.

This was something that I really wanted to accomplish even before I met Holly and she she actually had the same same mindset as well okay and so we didn't have to talk you into it then no not really yeah we were we were very much into it he pulled out the spreadsheet and started showing me it was our one of our first budget meetings and I had to put the brakes on that pretty quick and tell him you can show me the spreadsheet but I don't need to know how it works I just need to know what I can spend oh okay all right yeah and I'm the guy I'm like all right I'm looking at it every day you know I'm like all right we can do this in this amount of time we have this much money to put more towards debt this month well you're a football coach it's a game plan that's right oh it's a game plan that's right exactly don't deviate from the game plan as long as it's working and it worked well it worked really

well yeah and just getting together every month and me knowing how much money we had and and what to put towards it and then letting her know what she could spend and on certain things like groceries you know those are the little things that oh she goes to the grocery store and thinks you have this and yeah that budget meeting every month just makes it possible to be in constant communication with each other and be able to attack that debt every day so holly when people ask how you did this what's the secret to getting out of debt i feel like i always tell them that there's not a secret i think a lot of people want to know the magic secret, the easy way out. But the truth is that there isn't really an easy way out. It's just truly following the baby steps and sticking to that budget.

And for us, I think it's huge that if you are doing it with someone else, that you really are doing it together and you're on the same page. And I can't imagine trying to do this if we weren't doing it together and you're on the same page and I can't imagine trying to do this if we weren't doing it together yeah and just just staying consistent in the in the day-to-day when it was not any fun yeah well said well said very very cool what was the hardest part of this for y'all uh the hardest part was just discipline right just that, you know, you have this goal and you see the big number of 94,000 and you're like, okay, like, yeah, that's not going to happen. Yeah. But the day-to-day, it just seems forever.

And then two years goes by and you just realize the discipline and commitment that made it possible. And it's hard. It really is. You know, you see friends, friends especially our age you know doing all kinds of cool stuff and you just want to you just want to fall right into it and do it as well yeah and uh we we were able to finally you know work hard and that over that 20 24 month period and we got to take the big trip to Italy this past summer and so it paid off so wow nice payoff that's right I like it i like it well done

so uh other than your class who was your other than you two who was your biggest cheerleaders i assume your class definitely our our friends and family that went through it our friends our bible study class that was going through it with us they were definitely supportive of us so some of your peer group was already in that group? Yeah, they were doing it with us and would literally invite us over. I mean, they were a lot, plenty of them have fed us. Wow. I mean, just, you know, keeping it fun with us and really made it to where it wasn't torture to do that. But we didn't feel like we were doing it alone. We were doing it with other people that made all the difference. Yeah, we've got a great group of friends, especially in our Bible

study group. And then obviously our whole church was going through it at the same time as well. So that really just set the tone. Creates like an emotional wave. Exactly. Definitely. Riding the wave. And the cool part is us being both teachers, you know, we get to share that with other teachers, you know, because the pay is not always that great.

But we want them to know that, to know that you can do it. It's possible. It's possible that two teachers can pay off that amount of debt and live a really good lifestyle. So that's something that we want to encourage people with. Especially from this point forward. You've got no debt. That's right. That's awesome.

I love it. Well, we're proud of you guys. Thank you. Well done, heroes. I love it. We've got a copy of Chris Hogan's book for you, Everyday Millionaires. The number four

occupation on the list of people who become millionaires was teachers when we did the study. Be not dissuaded, my friends. You're going to get there. I love it. This is the next chapter in your story. Way to go, you guys.

Stephen and Holly, Houston, Texas, $95,000 paid off in 24 months, making $106,000 to $116,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah! Woo-hoo-hoo-hoo! Love it! that free yeah oh man absolutely incredible yeah we've had a lot of churches across america do a church-wide initiative and everybody at one time is going through financial peace university we even had a group of 116 churches in kansas city do a city-wide financial peace university all 116 churches at one time doing it last fall that was pretty incredible and when you you create

that much positive peer pressure all around you and all around the community that you're serving, and we're all going to get out of debt. We're all going to be generous. We're all going to be on a plan. We're all going to manage God's resources well. It changes everything, guys. So proud of them. Very well done. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you for joining us, America. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You know, one of the best things about doing the show is I get to hear your debt-free screams, and some of you are killing it.

And some of you have gone on beyond the debt-free scream, and you're really doing what you're supposed to do in Baby Steps 4, 5, 6, 7. That means you've not only are debt-free, got your emergency fund, but you're also now investing and saving for college and paying off your house early and that kind of stuff. If you live like no one else, later you can live and give like no one else. If you're in that Baby Steps 4 and beyond, it might be time to celebrate, and we want to celebrate with you for the first time ever

we are hosting the live like no one else cruise the ramsey cruise now this is a luxury cruise this is not a cheapo it's a nice ship that's only one year old holland america line one of the top lines out there i don't like the cheap cheesy ones on the sea they bother me and uh so this is we did the upgrade thing okay very nice and it sold out when we launched it's in march and we saw it launched it last march and we sold out in 27 days well when the uh final deposits came due uh a couple of back. Some people dropped out, so we actually ended up with a handful of rooms. We've got about 60 or 70 rooms left right now, something like that. So the Live Like No One Else cruise is in March.

It includes all the Ramsey personalities are going to be on, speaking and teaching, and me and Sharon will be there. My friend Jeff Foxworthy is going to be on there. My friend Stephen Curtis Chapman is going to be on there my friend steven curtis chapman is going to be on there doing doing shows uh and uh manit shohan from the food channel uh one of the top chefs in america is here in nashville a friend of ours as well is coming on uh so we're gonna have all kinds of different things to do uh now this is not don't you don't go into debt to do stuff like this okay that would be like, hypocritical of us to suggest it or you to do it. So don't do that.

But if you're in Baby Step 4 and you've got the margin, this is a killer, killer cruise. And there's just a handful of folks, just a handful of seats. Our rooms have opened up. We're going to Turks and Caicos, St. Thomas, San Juan, Bahamas. It's a great seven-day cruise. So you can get your cabin uh just go to ramseycruise.com ramseycruise.com matthew is in minnesota matthew welcome to the dave ramsey show thanks dave merry christmas merry christmas to you what's up well i just wanted to say that i don't want to live normal anymore.

Good. So I just had a quick question. So I was looking over my student loans on the website that I have through my student loan servicer, and one thing that caught my eye that I just didn't pay attention to or just didn't see was the term accrued interest and was just wondering what that all entails. That would be interest that you have not paid. So that says you probably were behind on the student loan, and so some interest built up.

Accrued is building up. Is that what happened? Yeah, that happened um i've been paying on my student loans making the minimums um for about a year now okay and it wasn't quite covering the interest right yeah so it accrued it added up the the balance that you were not covering okay okay and so you're going to pay the that accrued interest plus whatever the balance is, the principal balance, before you're debt-free. Plus you're going to pay interest from today forward until you pay it off.

Okay. And so that's all it is. Accrued just means built up. That's all it means in this case. So good question. Get after it, baby just means built up. That's all it means in this case. So good question. Get after it, baby. You got this. You can do it.

Kristen is in Florida. Hi, Kristen. How are you? Hi, Dave. Merry Christmas. Thank you so much for taking my call. My pleasure. What's up?

So I am 21 years old, just graduated college in May. And unfortunately, while I was in college, my father passed away unexpectedly without a will in June of 2018. So I don't know what he would have wanted me to do with his inheritance. So I have around $200,000 and only $20,000 worth of student loan debt. So after I pay off the student loan debt, I'm just curious on what you would advise me to do with the remaining because my siblings are all worried that I'm going to, you know, not be wise with it.

Oh, really? Why are they worried about that? Have you had a history of being unwise? No, I'm just the baby of the family. Oh, okay. They just figure you're 21 and you're stupid or something, huh? Exactly. Well, you don't sound stupid to me.

All right. So the estate is completely settled? Not yet. It's still open, unfortunately. What is remaining um we have i think they just need to close the odds men he had a couple of commercial properties um so we were trying to sell those and in addition to his homestead so um okay so they have already distributed two hundred,000 in cash to you? Yes, I have it available. What does available mean? Is it in your name or not? Yes, it's in like a, I think it was his retirement, so it was his IRA

and things like that. Okay, has it been transferred to your name? Yes. I have an account for it and everything with an investment company. Okay. Was it all in an IRA? No, it was multiple accounts. Okay. But they were all investment accounts. So you've got some were inherited IRA and some were investment accounts, but all with an investment company. Yes. And who selected that company? My sister actually works for the same company, so she's managing it.

Okay. All right. That's toxic and weird. Okay. Kind of makes you feel like you're being babysat doesn't it yeah a little yeah i mean i don't care as long as you're not misbehaving and they're not misbehaving it's fine and uh but um yeah that feels a little bit controlling but they're trying to protect you from yourself so i appreciate their love that love act on their part so here here's the thing, okay? You've just been assigned by God to manage $200,000 for him.

Your job is you are a manager, okay? Right? Yeah. So right now, then, you have to become responsible, which is why you're calling me, and I think that's wonderful. You have to become responsible on how to manage $200,000. Now, that does not mean you need to go get an MBA in finance, a master's in finance, but it does mean that you are to control this, to behave with it,

and to learn enough to make wise decisions and so you seek counsel which is what you've done today and you're going to continue to do that past me and the bible says in the multitude of counsel there is safety and so as you gather good opinions your brothers and sisters are watching out for you they've got good intent um i'm going to give you some opinions, and you can look at that. I've got good intent. I don't need your money. You can do whatever you want. And I want you to start to put some money people on your personal board of directors,

so to speak, that have the heart of a teacher, that are teaching you how to handle money, not doing it for you as if you are inept and don't have a brain. Okay? So we can let this investment company have a shot at that if you want to, but their job in your next meeting with them is to teach you not drop their glasses on the end of their nose and talk down to you. You have $200,000. They have to earn your business.

And the way they do that is they make you more competent and you feel more comfortable not with their ability to manage your money but with your ability to manage your money. Do you see the difference? And then, yes, I'm going to pay off your $20,000 in student loan, and yes, I'm going to be on a budget, and yes, I'm going to get a job, and I'm going to try to not touch this money and let it grow. And if it's invested well and you understand that, then you're going to be just fine.

And I'm going to help you. I want you to go through Financial Peace University so we can raise your ability as a manager to manage money. I'll pay for it. It'll be my Christmas gift to you. Hold on. Kelly will pick up, and we'll get you signed up for the nine-week class. This is The Dave Ramsey Show.

This is James Childs, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. Did you know you can now listen to The Dave Ramsey Show on Pandora and Spotify? For all the ways to watch and listen, check out our show page at DaveRamsey.com slash show.