The Ramsey Show - App - There's No Student Loan Forgiveness (And We're Here To Help) (Hour 1)

Episode Date: June 30, 2023

George Kamel & Ken Coleman answer your questions and discuss:  What to do now that the Supreme Court has shut down Student Loan Forgiveness, Looking to learn more?  Check out the Guide to Getting Rid of Your Student Loans "Should I sell my Tesla stock to pay off my mortgage?"  from the blog: Should I Use My Investments to Pay Off Debt? When to know if you should leave a job that's overworking you, from the website: Should I Quit My Job Quiz The best way to account for your "4 walls" in your budget, from the blog: 4 Things You Must Include in Your Budget "Should I move and change jobs because where I live has a high cost of living?" from the blog: Where Should I Move? Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Here's an EveryDollar deal just for our listeners: get a 14-day free trial PLUS $15 off your first year of premium. Click the link below and start budgeting today! www.everydollar.com/george Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3cEP4n6 Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Interested in advertising on The Ramsey Show? https://ter.li/s64ye3 Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Девочка-пай Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Pods Moving and Storage Studio, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Ramsey personality, George Campbell, joined this hour by Ken Coleman and special guest, Rachel Cruz.

It is so good to have you guys. Big day when we get Rachel in here with us. Full SportsCenter. It is like SportsCenter. I found out about 10 minutes ago and I couldn't be happier. I mean, the only thing missing here are the cocktails that we see at Smart Money Happy Hour across the desk.

It's a Friday. It could have been a party. It's not happening. Well, there's a good reason Rachel's here. Why is she here, George? Well, a big news hit just a few moments ago. Massive. Student loan forgiveness is not happening.

It is official now. The Supreme Court officially struck down Biden's student loan debt relief plan that would have forgiven up to 20 grand for federal student loan borrowers and rachel and i put an instagram story out just kind of sharing the news and giving people some next steps in a meeting uh and you know then the texts were coming in that the supreme court had ruled this and it was like oh my gosh because we've been talking about this for 18 months it feels like seven years from the moment it was announced. A long time. And if you've been listening to the show, you know that we've,

our number one thing for you guys is that we want you debt free. We want you out of debt. So we're like, listen, if this passes and you take advantage of it, go. That's great. If you have a moral conviction against it, then don't. But it's not passed yet. Don't wait on someone else to make decisions make decisions aka washington to fix your life so continue to pay it on because there was no interest right now there was a pause on interest

you could be paying down the principal all this right so this is in our head so george and i i'm like george oh my gosh they shut it down like it's not happening let's jump on the social because that's where people are to you know just give the announcement talk about it apparently we are too happy about it is what people were saying they said we are too and so then we had to do another video to be like y'all it's not that we're like wanting people to to suffer we just always knew this was the case so all that to say there is uh a lot of emotion around this which we understand because also you guys, we hate student loans.

We hate this whole industry. It is predatory. These 18 year olds signed their lives away and they had no clue what they're doing. The people, the adults in their lives, whether ignorant or believe something else, usher them into this. Like the whole thing is frustrating.

So we are against this whole industry. So we're not for it. So we want you this whole industry. So we're not for it. So we want you out of it. But we also know that you're the one that's going to have to change your life. And in sitting and waiting around on any program or any one person to do that, you're not going to get the change that you want. Great, great way to put that, Rachel. The big thing for us is we're not glad because people aren't getting help.

We're glad that the will they won't they game is over and that you're not being lied to anymore and that you don't have this false hope and that you're in control now. You can actually do something about this instead of waiting on a politician. And Ken, you were on Fox News earlier today talking about this very issue. Yeah, and I think you just hit on the real problem with this. Understandably, whether you agree with us on debt and loans and you're just kind of checking the show out or you saw their post and you were offended, let me just say that I'm angry for you

because if you believed, and a lot of you did, millions of you believed that this was possible, that's not fair to you. This is an emotionally charged issue because on the other side of it, as I mentioned on Fox News today, there were millions of Americans, I'm one of them, who did take out student loans and did pay them off. My wife too, who has a master's in broadcasting. And so this was an emotionally charged issue from the get-go. From all sides. From all sides. From all sides.

And I think it's important to point that out. And I appreciate you guys saying this. I'll be honest with you. It bothers me that you guys, and the reason you feel the need to address this because you're both really nice, sweet people. I'll be honest, nicer and sweeter than me. Because the reality is, is that what we have said for 18 months or however long it was, is that, folks, we didn't think this months or however long it was, is that folks,

we didn't think this was going to ever take place because of the constitutionality of it. We didn't file the lawsuit. Multiple states did. You had private student loan firms that were going to file lawsuits. So here's where we stand. We can help you get rid of this debt, but you signed up for this. You did. And so there's a responsibility. And to Rachel's point, I know it's bone crushing today. And I guess my point is, is I want to throw some empathy out to say, we get it because you are struggling and it hurts today. And come August, there's going to be a lot of people hurting when these loan payments start back up. So here's the point we want to make to you. We believe in you. We have a process called the baby steps that have worked for millions of Americans. And regardless of who's president

and who's in Congress and who's in charge, we don't want you to fall for this stuff anymore. We want you to get serious about getting free from debt. And that's what I want to encourage those people that are hurting today. Yes. And it begs to the point to you guys that there's like paying for a system, even like debt consolidation, like all these like things in the financial industry that feel like shortcuts. It's always going to backfire. Like there's a point that like things are going to backfire. And y'all were saying earlier, it may have been you, George, in our meeting as we're talking about this, that actually people during this waiting period of 18 months, student loan, they were getting money back now that they're going to have to pay again.

Yes. They're going to have to pay back. That's correct. Student loan companies were saying, hey, we'll refund you now. We'll refund you. Here's your 10 grand back. We're going to reinstate your loan balance and good luck with the government forgiving this.

That's a punch in the gut and the face. So now those people, like it's just like it's all of that stuff, you guys. So it's so entangled. And as we sit on this side of the desk trying to help give hope and empowerment to people, when we see this narrative play, and again, regardless of party, like Republicans do this, Democrats, like it's, we see this stuff and it's so hard because we also know, as we sit on this side of the desk, that we have people that stand on the debt-free stage that do debt-free screams. They've worked hard, they've sacrificed, and they've done it. So we know that you can do this. And so the fact that we're not going to be talking

about this anymore in that sense of like this waiting game, I'm going to wait and see it. No, now you can put action to your life. And that's what we're excited about. Yeah. I can't tell you how many calls we've taken in the last year or two, just people going, should I do this? Because what if they forgive it? And I'm going, you're putting your life on hold and putting your faith in a politician. When in history has it ever been a good idea? Yeah. And George, I remember when they first even announced this 18 months ago, I think we were on the air because it was a day or two after we had people, friends that we both know, kind of get mad at us. They're like, why would you tell people to keep paying on their student loans? Because it's probably not going to

happen. They're like, are you kidding us? It was a disagreement there. And we're just like, oh my gosh, no, keep paying because there's no interest right now. And you could be putting down the principal. It just mathematically makes sense. So all I have to say is it's over. That we are here for you, for those of you that are wanting to move forward in your education, and you think the only way is student loan debt. I can promise you it's not. We're here for you on that. Some of you are going, wait a second, what do I do? I don't want to get stuck in this deal.

And so that's the point we want to make today is that no matter what you're feeling on either side of this, you can live life debt-free. That's all we're trying to tell you. Give us a chance to walk you and talk you through it. That's what we want people to hear today because I can't point out enough how many people are devastated emotionally today. Devastated over this decision. But now it's, what are we going to do next? Because we can only wallow for so long, and so your payments are restarting in October, interest starts in September. We've got to make a plan. We've got to get on a budget.

We've got to pay this debt off, and we are here to help you, because we believe you're the hero, not the government. That's how it's been for 30 years, and that is not changing, and I'll run on that campaign promise, Ken. I'll vote for you, pal.

Thank you. I'll vote for you, too. Somebody give me a ballot. I'll write your name in. Thanks for hanging out, Rachel. Thanks, guys, for having me. Thanks, Ken. I'll vote for you, pal. Thank you. I'll vote for you, Rachel. Somebody give me a ballot. I'll write your name in. Thanks for hanging out, Rachel. Fun having you. Thanks, guys, for having me. Thanks, Rachel.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Ken Coleman this hour. It's a free call at 888-825-5225. Well, we just shared all about the student loan forgiveness not happening, the Supreme Court ruling that struck down Biden's plan. And I wanted to let you all know, listening out there, that our team is keeping up with this stuff. And we have an amazing guide to getting rid of your student loans, keeping you up to date on what's happening. And if you go to ramseysolutions.com slash student loans, you can

get all of the info there. And I'll make sure our team puts all of the information in the show notes, the description, wherever you're listening or watching, you'll be able to go down there and click on that link and get the resources you need because we want to see you get rid of these loans now that it's up to you. And here's the thing, we believe in you. We believe that you have the power to get rid of these loans yourself without the help of the government or politicians. I know it's a hot take, Ken, in today's world, but we've believed in you guys for 30 years. This whole show is about you believing that you're the secret sauce to your success. That's it. It's that simple. And so you can go check out that resource,

ramsaysolutions.com slash studentloans. Let's get to the phones. They are lighting up. We've got Peter in Minneapolis coming up. Peter, what's going on? Peter, are you with us? I am. I'm here. Hey, how can we help? I have, I want to know if I should sell my Tesla stock and pay off my mortgage. Whoa. Oh, boy. That's a good problem to have.

George, this is like a double whammy for you. It's a mortgage question and a Tesla question. There's so much going on here. Yeah. Did you just purchase this Tesla stock outright on your own? I did not. I worked for Tesla for the last four and a half years. Which means you got a killer deal on these stocks.

I did. Half of it is merit, like signing bonuses and raises. Half of it I've purchased through the employee ESPP program. Okay, cool. How much do you have in there? And I was just, well, today it's at 207. Depends on what Elon tweets out next, right? Right, yeah. Could go up or down depending on the tweet.

Okay, that's awesome. And what's your mortgage? 198 left. Oh, my gosh. Can you imagine if you just went down to the bank and just wire transferred that thing and you were done with it today? Yeah. How good would that feel? I need to figure out what I'm going to pay on taxes.

I have like a ballpark. On the capital gains? I need to be ready for that. Right. Yeah. And so do you have money in the bank as well outside of that? Yeah, we have $25,000 in our emergency fund. Okay.

And we're debt-free besides the house. Dude, you guys are crushing it. How old are you? 41. Wow. What's your mortgage payment? $950. We did a 30-year, but we've been paying it off.

We've been doing like 1600 a month. Nice. Knocking that thing down. Yeah. We have a, we have another house that's paid for our first house. Um, well, I met my wife, we went through Dave Ramsey, we got married, we paid her townhouse off. We had a kid, She stopped working to be a stay-at-home mom. And then about two and a half years ago, we bought this house. So we were already a baby step seven, and then we bought another house, and now we're working our way out of that mortgage. Very cool. I'm proud of you. You guys have done really, really well.

And I'll tell you what I would do, and I've done this in a sense, not to pay off my mortgage, but I had some Apple stock from when I worked there. And when I was getting out of debt, I cashed that thing out and I paid off. I used it to finish off my debt-free journey. And I have zero regrets. And here's what you're going to do. You're going to go, oh, my gosh, if I had held on to that Tesla stock, it could have been 10% more than it was. And my buddies are all making fun of me.

Guess what, dude? You don't have any payments. And so if Tesla starts laying people off, you go, all right, I'll go find out. I'm not worried. I don't got bills to pay. And so that's the kind of financial piece I'm talking about. And it is so worth it to liquidate those non-retirement assets to get there. Of course, you're doing it the smart way. Look into the capital gains and make sure you have the money to pay that as well. But I'm becoming debt-free, housing everything. I like George's advice, Peter, because I'm sure you've heard that it appears that Elon is going to wrestle or get in a cage match with Mark

Zuckerberg on Facebook. Have you heard about this, Ken? Do you not pay attention to this? Do you not know this? This is big news. There's so much Elon news, I can't even keep up anymore. No, this is absolutely a thing. I mean, Elon has said, I'm going to get... Now, Zuckerberg, okay, trains in the mixed martial arts. Elon is basically a smart marshmallow. And so this is dangerous. So I'm getting rid of this stock beyond George's advice. I think Zuckerberg, the battle of the billionaires,

I think Zuckerberg puts him in a pretzel. It could be dicey. And so I'm selling the stock for a completely different reason. That's not a reason I would have guessed, but it's a good reason. From the headlines, George. That's incredible. Well, Peter, we're proud of you, man. We are cheering you on.

And I hope you call back and maybe do your debt-free scream or come visit us in Nashville and send me some Tesla swag. That'd be fun. I love that. You might as well. do you have no dignity no you're begging for tesla gear no it wasn't a beg it was a it was a friend asking a friend i don't think so i don't think you guys know each other we're not on those terms no i don't think so but i'm i'm proud of that's inspiring that is great he's done really absolutely sell the stock okay let's move on to is it kaylee uh there we go callie is in michigan callie welcome to the show Absolutely sell the stock. Okay. Let's move on to, is it Kaylee? Callie. There we go.

Callie is in Michigan. Callie, welcome to the show. Hi. Hey. Long time listener. I just want to start off with we're debt free besides our house. Awesome. But I currently am like an x-ray tech by trade.

So I worked all through the pandemic. Everything was great. I moved to a new job in 21. I'm actually an interventional radiology technologist now. So it's a very kind of condensed field from x-ray. I love where I work. I love what I do. I love all my doctors, my nurses that I work with, my coworkers, everything's great. But we've known about two people leaving us basically for six months and management refused to do anything to try to get us extra help. So when I signed on, it was, I would, you know, work four days a week and then I would take seven days a call for a 28 day pay period because there was four of us. Well, now I'm working 10-hour days,

five days a week, and taking 14 days of call of a 28-day pay period, and they refuse to pay us more, and they refuse to give us any kind of benefit for doing this other than congratulations, you're making more money because you're making overtime and whatever. So this happened in early May and I said, by the time it hits my birthday, which is tomorrow, I'm still frustrated. I was going to call you guys. So, so what's the question? So I could make more money elsewhere and closer to home. Um, like I said, it's a really small community, so everybody kind of knows each other. So I don't know if I should take the leap and try to you know apply for jobs closer to home that would make more money or if I should stay where I really enjoy it and just hoping that they hire on more people sooner than later. Have you had

this conversation with leadership to say what is the plan to hire more help? Yes. And what's the answer? I've had many conversations, and it's, oh, well, the jobs are out there, they're posted, and the problem is we keep getting candidates, but basically the candidates are also x-ray techs that want to go into the interventional field, but they're not going to pay them enough to do it. They would actually be, if they hired in, making more than me, and I've worked there for two years. Yeah, so Callie, we've got about a minute and a half, so I want to get as much help to you as I can in that time. I don't think you enjoy this place anymore, and I understand what you meant when you said,

I enjoy it, but you really don't enjoy it. It has become a place of resentment for you, not because of the actual work, but because of the environment and then the leadership and how you're treated. And so that is only going to continue to get worse. You can bite the stick and you can get through it for a certain amount of time. And I think that certain amount of time is to find something else. If you really love the work and you can find that work somewhere else and make more money, I think it's a no-brainer. I see no evidence based on what you have told me that leadership is in an urgent state to try to relieve you all.

They are just kind of going along, going along, going along, or they at least should be communicating, hey, we know you're frustrated. We know you're overworked. Hang in there. That's not there. And so I think you start looking. And if it gets better in the time that you're looking, great. If it doesn't, it's time to move on because you're quickly moving to a place of resentment. And that's not good for you mentally, physically, or spiritually. Yeah, when the resentment shows up, the seeds have been sown. You got to get going.

That's what I say, Ken. Oh, I like that. You can stitch that on a pillow at TJ Maxx and sell it if you need to. I think that's a cracker barrel right now. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show, America. The number to call is 888-825-5225. I'm George Campbell, joined by my good friend Ken Coleman this hour.

Listen, we have people who tune into every episode of The Ramsey Show. We have data that shows that. They know all the stuff we teach about money. They can sit behind this desk and you could recite all of the advice, and yet they still feel stressed out and stuck. They're not where they want to be financially. How is that possible? Well, it's because knowing what to do with your money isn't the problem. Actually doing it is. It's about behavior change. And we always say personal finance is 80% behavior change. It's only 20% head knowledge. And the proven way to change your behavior is by taking Financial Peace University. This is the class. It's the difference between trying to get in shape on your own versus hiring a personal trainer. Because you have a coordinator, you have accountability, you have community, you're forced to show up every week

and go, did you watch the lesson? Did you do the action steps? Did you make your budget? And that's what makes it so powerful. And that's why it's worked for millions of people. And after nine weeks, you will never handle money the same way again. That's what happened to me back in 2013 when I first went through it. So don't just listen to this show, commit to doing what it takes to win. Go join an FPU class near you or online at ramsaysolutions.com slash FPU. That's ramsaysolutions.com slash FPU. Chris joins us up next in Fort Worth. Chris, welcome to the show. Honored to be with you, George and Ken. How are you guys doing? We're doing great, my man. How can we help?

I want to know how much of my take-home pay should go to my four walls. Ah, that's an exciting question. So for those that are listening, four walls are food, utilities, your shelter, transportation, all of that stuff. And so you've got your budget set out. What's your income? This month it's $10,000. Wow. So this is partially why we don't give recommended percentages for every category,

because if we said, hey, you should spend 15% of your income on food, whether you make $1,000 a month or $10,000 a month, that would be wild, right? For someone to spend $150 versus $1,500. And so it's hard to give percentages outside of the housing category, which we do have one for that, which is no more than a quarter of your take-home pay, including your... You got a mortgage or rent? We have a mortgage and it's really low. We're trying to knock that thing out and it's just bugging us. But outside of the mortgage, our four walls are 33% of our take-home pay this month. That sounds very reasonable. I think a lot of America is jealous right now, and partially it's because you guys have an amazing take-home

pay. It scares us to death. I mean, does anything feel out of control to you as far as utilities, transportation, or food costs in your budget? What's kind of the heart behind the question? It's a future projection I'm looking at here. We thought it would be a great idea because we knew we'd be debt free pretty quickly to move and to focus our wealth into a house. And so we kind of front-loaded that instead of the 401K. So we're about to be in this, you know, we're about to have a paid-off house. But property taxes in Texas are awful. And so is insurance. And that alone is 15% of our take-home pay this month,

you know, on a 12th of the year, you know, if you were to cut it out every month. And so we had a sinking fund for that and that's 15%. And so I think Ken was talking about this on another show recently, but he said that he took a pay cut in his life for a season as a calculated risk. And so we're doing that too. Um, so I'm fully self-employed as of a few months ago. And so it may not be a season, maybe like a year, uh, but home prices in our area over the past two years, and we've been here two years have skyrocketed. And I'm worried that 15% that goes to property tax and insurance might end up being 20, 25. And I'm wondering at what point, like, are we going to have to think about moving in five years? That kind of thing.

Because of property taxes? Yeah. It's bad. It's two and a half percent of our home value, and they're trying to say it's 800. Right. But let's just run the numbers. Okay, so I get where your head is going, but let's just play the numbers out. So when you look at the way we treat our property taxes, I don't know, George, if you espouse wrapping them into the mortgage payment. Yes, as part of the 25%. That's exactly right. It's usually wrapped in with escrow, unless you have a paid-for house, in which case you're setting this up on your own. Exactly.

We do it on our own. You do it on your own. That's what I thought. So in that situation, you just got to look at it and go, all right, let's just look at the numbers now. What is that monthly number that allows us to save up for the property taxes if you're pulling it out of your line item? Is that what you're doing?

You're putting it in the budget and you're going, okay, we have to save this much each month so that when the property taxes come due. It's $1,500. That's $1,200 for property tax and $300 for home insurance. Right. But what do you expect that to go up to if these bumps happen? So what would that go up to, the property tax? I mean, it's probably going to be $1,300 a month still, but if it keeps going up at this rate at like five years, like it could up you know being a whole nother grand um but i just don't i mean i guess it's kind of a fear-based question yeah that's what that would mean the house would have to double yeah it's not reasonable i think the people of texas will revolt yeah it's not going to happen to do my friend it's not going to happen

at that rate you're not going to be paying three thousand dollars in property taxes in five years is that what you're essentially saying yeah no it's not going to happen my friend it's not going to be paying $3,000 in property taxes in five years. Is that what you're essentially saying? Yeah. No, it's not going to happen, my friend. It's not going to happen. I'm just trying to snap you out of this. It's fear, and I get it, but that's not what's going to happen. You'll see some incremental increases for sure. But to George's point, if that happens, you're talking revolt in Texas, okay? And so those kind of property tax increases at that level would just be, I just don't see a scenario where that's going to happen. And I wouldn't make any plans around that possibility.

Yeah, it's not going to break you. Stay on the course. And I would also be investing 15%. And if you're following the plan, you're investing 15%. Have you guys been doing that? Because you said you're front-loading into house payments. We are in John Deloney's class that just ended.

It was great. Awesome. You're doing fine. I think you guys might need to go on a vacation or something. Have you celebrated at all? I mean, we bought a house two years ago. That's a celebration. Boy, that sounds like a real party. Woo! Come on! We're accountants. We don't

do anything to find. Hey, we're having some fun with you, but that accountant and your amygdala need a break. You are scared to death over something that you don't need to be worried about. You can absorb. I'll go research this. Okay. Oh, I'll tell you what it is. Oh, I always love this little explanation. The amygdala is the back of your brain. It's called the lizard brain. You can research that. And it's where the fear mechanism in the brain resides. And so when we are fearful, it's fight or flight.

And you're getting real flighty. You're getting real nervous about those property taxes. And the fact of the matter is he's in great financial shape. Yeah, there's people that call us that think they're in better shape than you, and they're super broke. And so a lot of this is fear-based. I think we've got to, we maybe have a flat tire. We may want to go, hey, do we need to actually dial back on this aggressive house payment and enjoy some of it or give some of it? That usually, you know, when you're a little more open-handed with it, you just breathe a little easier and you have a little more

joy. And so if that's you guys, I'd encourage you to look at the budget and go, where can we have some fun? And if it ever does get out of control and you're like, we got to move away from Texas, we'll deal with that when we get there. But right now it's all just speculation. Well, thank you guys so much. Yeah, absolutely. Hey, you're a good dude, Chris. I recommend a massage. Ken does love a good massage. That's a good one. Well, I will share, Ken, because I pulled these numbers up from our website, and this is all from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, from the USDA. For those that are wondering, am I out of control with my budget in these four-wall categories? So for food, USDA says singles that are aged 19 to 50 spend $3.14 to $3.71 a month. If you're a couple, 19 to 50 spend spend around 6.85. And a family of four spends around 9.71 for the thrifty plan. So this isn't like balling out. This is, hey, we're getting food on the table. We're not going crazy. For housing, of course, we say 25% of your take-home pay, which includes your homeowner's insurance, your property taxes, your principal, your interest,

any HOA fees, any PMI, that all gets wrapped in there. And then utilities, 37 a month is average for natural gas, 129 a month for electricity, and 58 a month for water and other public services. That sounds about right for the average person. Of course, people are yelling at their screens right now going, I pay twice as much. I'm sorry. I don't know what to tell you. And then transportation, gasoline, other fuels and oil, $179 a month.

Other forms of transportation, $38 a month. And then maintenance repairs, about $81 a month. So that may be helpful to some of you just to go, am I way off base? It's getting many people heartburn. But, you know, there's things that you live in a high cost of living area, it's going to cost more. You live in the middle of nowhere, you might be paying a whole lot less. And so, you know, those decisions and where you live, it all matters a whole lot. You drive a Tesla like George, you have no gas bills.

But you know what? The DMV charges electric vehicle owners an extra $100 a year. Good. Just because we're not paying the gas tax. I feel good about that. That feels great. Good, Ken. We're all fair and square now.

All right. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. If you're a new listener to the show and you want a deeper dive on all the stuff we talk about on the show, especially the Ramsey baby steps, you want that next step for your financial journey, you can go to ramseysolutions.com and click on the Get Started button, and we'll help you figure out that next step for exactly where you're at today. That's ramseysolutions.com. Click on Get Started. Sarah joins us up next in San Francisco. Sarah, welcome to the show. Hi, thanks. What's going on? All right. I'm at the beginning of baby step two with 141 in all kinds of debts, except mortgage. Last year, I moved to California from Texas for work, and it came with a cost of living raise, but with the much higher rent and all of my minimum payments, I'm still in the red every month.

So I'm doing extra jobs to make the ends meet, but there is nothing left to throw at babies up to. So I'm feeling really burnt out in my current industry, which I've been in for about 15 years. And I would like to go back to school to become a nurse. But I just can't figure out what the first problem to solve is. If it's the cost of living that's the biggest problem or changing industries or just what the biggest thing to solve first is. I can't figure out how to break the jam and to get started. Well, we're glad you called today. This is a great mix of career and money, and Ken can definitely help you on that career side. But I think the main problem right now is you're staring at a mountain of debt in a high cost of living area. And so do you think

you're not making enough money for where you're at? 100%. Yes. What is your income? So I'm at 75. What do you do? I do operations for real estate on the back end of real estate teams. Okay. And are you wanting to switch careers? Are you happy in your career, but you just want to make more money in that same type of role? What I would really like to do is to become a nurse, but that will take quite a while to get there. But on like a day-to-day basis, I really like, I enjoy what I do. Okay. Yeah. The nurse dream is great, but right now we're just going to exacerbate the problem. If we go another 150 grand into debt and now we're staring at 300 grand, there's no amount of money that's going to make that worth it. And so until we can cashflow that nursing program,

I'm going to pause and go, how do we stack up as much cash as possible? Maybe it's an extra job. Maybe it's getting a different role in that field so that we have some margin to throw at the debt. Okay. That makes sense. So what do you, then what? So how do you- Let's talk about the cost. Well, let's talk, I'm going to dig a little bit and George, I'm just digging here for you on this, but what's the cost of living? What is it? What is your mortgage? Because if you're pointing to that as a big hindrance to you being able to, I mean, you're not even meeting ends meet each month.

No. So how much are you paying for rent or mortgage? It's the rent, but it's $2,200. And what's your take-home pay? And that's the smallest thing I could find. I bring home about, on the main job, $4,100. Oh, my goodness. Yeah.

And that rent is killing you. And then I'm doing extra jobs. What's your minimum payments on all that debt? It ends up being $1,500. Are you married or single? Single. Divorced, but single. Okay.

And you've looked everywhere where you are. You've got the cheapest thing in that area. So now your only options are, if you stay in this current role, is you move further out. But then now that creates some life changes as well, a commute, correct? And so I'm mostly remote, which is kind of a weird thing. So I moved out here to be closer, but I am still mostly remote. But we are very, where I'm located, there's not any further out. It actually gets more expensive for quite a while. What about a roommate? I just don't know many people here.

I didn't ask you that. I asked you, what about a roommate? Let me just throw a concept at you. If you get a roommate to pick up half the rent, you just got an $1,100 a month raise. I'd go meet some people. Like an actual roommate in the same room? A human being. No, you'd get a two-bedroom.

Okay, hold on a second. Are you in a one-bedroom? I am. I'm in a one-bedroom. A two-bedroom is going to go up. All right, I apologize. I can understand how you're like, boy, this Ken guy is a little weird. Sarah, I did.

Do I get a bunk bed? I'd almost entertain it, though. Yeah. I mean, at this point, Sarah, here's the harsh reality. I just did the math for you. 90% of your take-home pay is gone as soon as you pay rent

and cover your minimum payments. And I can't see you continue going down this hole, and so we have to do something drastic. So what types of debt do you have in that 141? Is there anything that we could sell, like a car? My car, I had $9,000 on it. There's 21 in credit card stuff, 26 to the IRS, and then 83 in student loans. loans okay what's the car where they're coming

back in uh oh and what i owe on it i mean i would probably have to pay a thousand to get rid of it if you're remote could you just move to a different state a different area where rent is super cheap i've asked and they refuse i might look at a different job. It's time for a different job. That's the only momentum builder you've got right now unless you're working a second or a third job. I am. I'm piecing it together. Yeah, but you got to have dramatically more income and dramatically less expenses. And the only place to do that, based on what you've told George, is the living arrangements. If you could move somewhere else, get a job making what you're making in another state, and then you get a roommate, you know, and so let's say you get

a two-bedroom for $1,500 and you get a roommate and split that. Now, all of a sudden, you got some momentum, you got some margin. And we get a second or third job on top of that. Yeah, exactly. And so we hit both sides of this thing. Now we have $1,000 to throw at the debt instead of negative $300, which is probably where you're at now. I'm not afraid of working. I'm working. I believe that. I'm working right now.

We want to see Sarah win, and sometimes it takes doing really hard stuff for a little while. And maybe one day you're going to be back in the Bay Area, but you're probably going to be making $150 or $200 if we're going to be back there because that's kind of what you need to make to survive out there. And so making 75, you could make 75 work if you didn't have 140 grand in debt. And so we've got to go clean up this mess and do what it takes. And that might mean saying, hey, I'm sorry, I love this role,

but right now I can't even make ends meet making 75. So I've got to go find something else I can do where I can make 100 in a cheaper living area. I know that what we're suggesting is going to uproot you and it's not comfortable, but I will tell you, if you can switch your mind from all the things that you've got to do now and uncomfortable, pull up roots, find a job, move to a new place, blah, blah, blah. But if you can switch it to this gets me closer to being a nurse i think it's i think it'll help you all of these moves that we just recommended get you that much closer to being a nurse because when you're debt-free and you have an emergency

fund you can cash flow your way through that nursing program you gotta see it i like you gotta see it it's very stressful after having i just moved here off the country but can i just tell you this what we're asking you to do while stressful yes is way less stressful than what you're dealing with every month 100 if you do the math on you being in the hole every single month and add up what that is per year you're going to go oh my gosh i'm going to continue to go into debt while this interest racks up, which is insane on those credit cards alone. And that I couldn't breathe doing that. I would do whatever it took to get out of that. And we want to help you. And so I'm going to give you one year of Financial Peace University

and one year of every dollar premium so that you have a little hope, you have a motivation, you have people walking alongside of you. And if you join that FPU class, maybe you'll meet someone and they'll go, hey, I'm looking for a roommate too. I'm trying to get out of debt. That would be amazing. I'm in your FPU class. Oh, that's wonderful. Well, that's virtual. There you go.

That's wonderful. It's so great to have you in this FPU class, and I'm glad you're there. And you'll have a year of every dollar as well because you're in there. Might I recommend, George, in the class? Yeah. as well because you're in there. Might I recommend, George, in the class, see if anybody in your class knows of an open job in the company that they're working on. A little proximity principle.

Let's do a little proximity principle in your class and let's just see if we might find Sarah a place to land. I love it. And for those of you listening and you're a little jealous because Sarah just got some free stuff, you can go check out a sweet deal we have right now at everydollar.com slash george because I'm in some free stuff. You can go check out a sweet deal we have right now at everydollar.com slash george because I'm in with the team.

$15 off a premium subscription and a 14-day free trial to check it out. There's some amazing tools. Connect to your bank. H to know George. Pay check planning, all of it. All you need to do is go to everydollar.com slash george and check that out.

We want to see all of you win with me. You're such a big deal. I'm a giver, Ken. You really are. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, George Campbell here. If you love the show and you want a deeper dive on your money journey,

we've got a weekly newsletter that gives you helpful articles and tips on following the Ramsey way. Just go to ramseysolutions.com today to sign up for the newsletter. Again, that's ramseysolutions.com to sign up for our weekly newsletter.