The Ramsey Show - App - There's No Such Thing As Being "Good" at Day Trading! (Hour 3)

Episode Date: February 4, 2020

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. You jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money. It's a free call at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Liz is with us in Illinois. Hi, Liz. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show.

Thank you. Hi, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Good. Good. So we're doing our taxes, and last year for 2018, we had $316,000 in capital losses. We were told that we could only deduct $3,000 a year on our taxes, but I did the math and that would take 115 years, and I'm hoping I don't live that long. But our accountant said that he suggested opening a brokerage account instead of a 401K to utilize these capital losses, and I just wanted to hear your opinion on that. So it sounds like the type of losses that you have is what's causing the write-off,

the inability to write them off, because you don't have any income that is of similar sources to the losses. Right. Yeah, and so he's saying open a brokerage account because the income on that then would be tax free utilizing these losses to write it off. Okay. Right. Exactly.

I'll bite. Okay. Hmm. And I don't know, would you treat a brokerage like a 401k? You just let the money build and then at what point would you... Yeah, I mean, you could put the money into a mutual fund. And the problem is that if you put it in mutual funds, a lot of the gains may not be taxable because the growth in value is not taxable until you cash it out. And so you're not getting any use of this.

The brokerage account where you're buying and selling stocks, if you had a gain, that's all taxable in that year. It sounds like you need short-term income on investments, not long-term capital gains on investments to offset this. What was this from? What's the loss from? From trading, from doing trades. Jesus. Yeah, it was bad. It was a bad situation.

My husband was diagnosed as being bipolar, but not until after this happened. And it just all happened within six weeks. It was just kind of a manic thing. It was, you know, very out of character and very upsetting. And obviously, what is your household income? For last year, oh, my gosh, it was only, um, 38,000. Um, this year it's going up. My husband got a new job, um, starting at 50,000 plus, you know, whatever bonus.

Where did you have 300,000 that you could lose? Uh, we had an inherited IRA and,, crap. And he was working. Yeah. And so he was originally, I had just had a new baby. I was having problems with pregnancy. So he started working from home trading because he was doing it and doing well with it. There's no such thing. Yeah, up until he wasn't.

And so now it's just been trying to find. 78% of day traders lose money. Statistically, that's called all of them. Okay. So don't even ever say that again, that he was doing well. No, never. That's like saying I'm at the roulette table and I hit, so I'm doing well. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. All right. Let's stop for a second. Um, dadgum, the inherited IRA was taxable. He pulled the money out and paid taxes on it and then lost it. He must have. Yeah.

Yeah. Cause inherited IRA is taxable when you pull it out. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah, it was bad. Okay, here's the problem. If we get too nitsy and nuanced and technical in order to get some benefit from this write-off, but it exposes him to the very beast that just about killed him the first time, I don't like that.

So your husband being anywhere near a brokerage account sounds like suicide to me so that's what that is a brokerage account a brokerage account is an account that you have with a broker that you call the broker and you do trades okay which is the answer is no your husband does not need to be anywhere near that um so um i don't know in your household how you're going to create gains on investments to offset losses on investments to get the benefit of this that is substantial i don't know how to do that uh what i would do if i were in your shoes before before i put your family at further risk, playing with the same snakes that already bit you, I would just say, screw it. Forget it.

It's just gone. Yeah. Okay. But before I completely do that, I want to ask a question if I'm you, because there's $300,000 on the table of losses that we'd be nice to shelter income with i want to ask a a different uh tax advisor than you have the same question what other accounts qualify what other investments qualify for this right the returns on them qualify to offset this loss i think though you're probably gotten pretty decent advice in terms of what

technically applies but it was bad advice when you pan back and understand the situation because your husband doesn't need to be anywhere near a brokerage account ever again no yeah manic depressive people should not be doing trades hello you know nobody should nobody should but bipolar sure as crud shouldn't so i'm so sorry what a horrible thing y'all been through well we're we're getting through it there was some debt that went into it how's your marriage doing our marriage is good it's strong you know we go to counseling i'm very supportive of him is he healing from the bruises where you hit him yeah yeah i think he'll be okay oh lord i can't even imagine i'm so sorry yeah let's do this let's do this let's say out loud let's say out loud that your accountant may have given you good tax advice but bad mental

health advice right so stay away from a brokerage account but let's also double check and get a second opinion uh and some other possible options if there are any that are safe and that are away from the snakes that have bitten you before that where you could get this right off but before i did a brokerage account i would just lose the money it's just part of the sadness of this whole situation thanks for the call anytime anytime you try to short circuit the process of building wealth, you get bit. Anytime. Doesn't matter if you're bipolar, doesn't matter if you're A-type, doesn't matter your Enneagram number. He who hastens to be rich will not go unpunished. I did it. Her husband did it.

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You're scared. You're making dumb decisions and emotional spending, hurting, fighting with your spouse. That's kind of normal in a lot of households. If you're there right now in the pit, here's what I want you to know. There is a way out. There is hope. You need to get serious with the only person who can turn this thing around. The person's in your mirror. You need a plan. You need some encouragement.

And you need some accountability. And you'll get that and even more in Financial Peace University. That's why it works. We've taught over 6 million people how to get out of debt, how to stay out of debt, how to ultimately become wealthy and outrageously generous. It goes beyond teaching you just paying your bills, but it starts there. You're going to start to win in a lot of different areas of your life because you're going to start creating order out of chaos.

There is hope. You can get out of this mess. People just like you have done it. We can show you how. Check out Financial Peace University. get out of this mess people just like you have done it we can show you how check out financial peace university at davramsey.com call the ramsey concierge team at 888-22-PEACE 888-227-3223 stewart is with us in south carolina hi, Stuart. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. Thanks for having me.

Sure. What's up? I've got a quick question, actually a two-part question, and I think I know what you're going to say, but I just wanted to hear it out of your mouth. My wife would kind of rather hear it from you than me, too. So back in 2018, we took out a, stupidly, we took out a 401k loan out of her 401k. And in November of 2018, we found out she was pregnant with our third child and so now fast forward to July she had my daughter and has now a stay-at-home mom and um we basically leaving the the 401k loan with about eleven thousand dollar balance and so I was doing our taxes last night and we never did get

a 1089R, you know, showing that amount. And I called the retirement company and they said that basically we have until March 31st to pay that off before it shows a debt on this year, I guess on 2020. Yeah, before it's considered an early withdrawal, at which point you will be taxed and penalized. Right. But my question for you is, with her leaving her job, which was about $65,000 a year, basically going down to nothing for 2020, would you recommend, and I'll tell you this too, I can come up with the funds without going into debt to pay this off. That's what you should do. It would pretty much wipe us out. That's what you should do. That's what you should do.

It would pretty much wipe us out. That's what you should do. Okay. And then so my second question is, she'll have about, I guess, $60,000 in that 401k? Then roll that to an IRA and get in touch with SmartVestor Pro and do a rollover and spread it across four types of mutual funds, growth, growth and income, aggressive growth, and international.

A 401k loan falls in baby step two, and if you have no other debt, it's the last remaining debt in baby step two. And when you're in baby step two, getting out of debt, we teach folks to stop investing and to pay off all of their debts except their home, listing them smallest to largest, and take any money that they have access to to pay those debts. And that's all I'm doing here. Right. So basically, you know, wipe everything out, and then there's no debt.

So you can build it back up. Now, baby step one is $1,000 in the savings. Two is debt-free everything but the house, including paying off 401K loans, no money in any investment or savings account, unless it's a retirement account, until you have your debt paid off. And so any money you have, which apparently you've got some squirreled away, we're going to use that to clear this debt. Do you have apparently you've got some squirreled away we're going to use that to clear this debt do you have any other debt other than your home um well i actually just

sold a 65 000 pickup truck uh last week and so i had to i had to take out a personal loan to cover that difference but okay and how much is that loan? That's $10,000. Okay. And you got $11,000 on this. What other loans do you have other than your house? That's it. And how much money do you have in savings? About $7,000. So where are you going to get $11,000 to pay the 401k loan?

Oh, there was a $5,000 for tax return for this year or for 2019. Okay. Do you need to adjust your W-4s? That's a huge tax return. It is a little more than I anticipated, but I don't know how. Don't loan the government $500 a month interest-free next year. You did this year. Right. Adjust your W-4 to have the proper amount withheld.

You don't need an interest-free savings account with the federal government. You're right. That's what a refund is, dude. Okay, so you got the $5,000 and the $7,000 is $12,000, and you got $11,000 and you got $10,000, right? Right. And your household income is what? This year will probably be around $90,000 to $100,000.

Good. Okay. So if you follow what I teach, which works, by the way, we're going to take the $5,000 and the $7,000. We're going to pay off the loan at the 401K because if you don't do it by March 31st, you're going to get hammered for another $5,000 or $6,000 in tax problems. Okay? And so we're going to clear that. That leaves you only with the amount of loan you have left

from the leftover from the truck. And you have $1,000 in your account. You're on a tight budget. You make $90,000 a year. You're going to pay off $10,000 in three months, maybe four months, something like that. And then you're going to build your emergency fund back up of three to six months of expenses, which is too thin right now anyway. But we're going to build it up from that $1,000 up to three to six months of expenses. In your

house, that's probably $15,000. and you're going to have zero payments but a house payment and $15,000 in the bank when you finish those three steps. That's going to feel pretty good with a new baby. Yes, sir. Okay? And that's exactly following the baby steps of exactly what we teach. Okay? I'm going to give you a copy of the book, The Total Money Makeover, which outlines exactly how the baby steps work on steroids, every little nuance and detail.

And it'll show you how to do what I just outlined for you as well. So hold on and I'll have Kelly pick up and we'll get you signed up for that. Thanks for the call folks. Um, we've said it before, but I'll cover it again since he brought it up. Never borrow on your 401k. Let me try this again. Never. There's no caveat to this. There's no except, but what about never?

Never. Here's why. Number one, you unplug a good investment. You've got it in good mutual funds, making 10% or 12%, and now you're paying your self-interest, which is really talking about a dog chasing its tail right here, and it's only like 5% or 6% interest. Then when you leave your job, and you will leave your job, when you die, get a better job, or go home to be with a baby,

I don't know you're gonna leave the job the loan is called due which is what happened to him you don't pay it on time it's called an early withdrawal and they hit you with taxes and penalties to the tune of 40 to 50 never borrow on if you do this one simple thing that we all do you are literally at risk of being hacked and someone stealing what you've worked so hard for do you ever use public wi-fi i'm talking about getting online at a coffee shop a store the airport or even at home. Hackers can use a simple $100 device to mimic Wi-Fi, and with just a little bit of skills, they can take over your financial life. This means you may think you're on your bank's site or app or securely making that purchase online, but hackers could see and steal that information. That's why I trust CyberGhost VPN.

CyberGhost thinks about cybercrime so you don't have to. You can try it for free for seven days. Protect up to seven internet devices and keep all of your internet connections secure. That's CyberGhost VPN. Download it today from your app store and be secure in seconds jonas is with us jonas is in Sweden. Hello. I'm sorry? Hello. Hey, Jonas, how are you?

Just fine. Happy to be on your show. Thank you for taking my call. Certainly. How can I help? Well, I'm afraid that I'm overthinking a question about Baby Step 2, and I thought let's get a second opinion on this. I stumbled over your show a while ago, and I thought this makes sense.

This is another piece of my puzzle. So I decided to try to follow your baby steps. I was already on the way. I just didn't know to call them the baby steps. But I realized the other day, maybe I'm doing one thing wrong. I have one loan left. It's like $3,500 of a zero interest student loan, and I haven't paid that, and I don't want to pay it right now, and I don't know if I'm too smart. Okay.

You're too smart. Okay. Here's what you're doing, and you are – Can I explain why? Sure, because it's 0% interest. Yes. Yes, 0% interest. And right now, we have a very low cash flow. And I don't want to dig into our emergency fund to pay it off.

Why do you have a – are you in the middle of an emergency? Well, the low cash flow, I would say, is an emergency. Why do you have a low cash flow? We have a low cash flow because we just got a baby. I can't work that much right now. And, yeah, it's going to be like this for for a few months okay i'm sorry why can't you work i i can work but i can't work as much why so we have a cash flow uh because it only takes one person to take care of a baby

uh yes it does it does but working for me means spending time abroad during weeks. We don't want to do it. Oh, I got you. Okay. That makes sense. All right. So, yeah, you don't want to be gone for a month or two right after you had a baby. That makes sense. Traveling abroad. Okay. All right. So, well, okay, let's stop for a second and let's break these things apart then. Number one, if you are in the middle of a cash flow crisis for whatever reason, then you would push pause on the whole Baby Steps thing. You would push pause on the total money makeover. And so that's what we're going to do here. And so none of the questions of baby steps apply. Okay?

Now, later on, like two months from now, three months from now, whatever, you go back to work, the cash flow is back up, we push play again. Okay? At that point, you write a check and get rid of this debt. Okay. Great. This is what I of this debt. Okay. Great. This is what I needed to hear. Okay.

And that's exactly what you would do. And the thing that comes up sometimes, Jonas, at the point that you're there, you're ready to write that check, sometimes people say, well, I don't want to pay off a zero-interest loan, as if somehow that is going to make you wealthy borrowing money at zero percent interest is going to make you wealthy because you didn't do anything with the money it's only 33 500 bucks it's not enough to make you wealthy i mean if you could borrow 35 million dollars zero interest and invest that we can have a discussion about that, and we'll argue about it.

But at $3,500, you're not making any money on this money. And so it's just an intellectual exercise to say, oh, I'm wise, I'm not paying off a 0% interest loan. No, you're not wise. You're just rationalizing the crap out of staying in debt. That's all you're doing, and you need to get rid of the debt. So you didn't push back on that part so i'm not i'm not picking on you but there's a lot of people say oh it's zero percent why would i pay it off because you need to be dead clear of

debt because when you don't have any debt you have your highest you have control of your largest wealth building tool which is your income and you're sacrificing that with this rationalization and intellectual gymnastics that people do as if somehow you've got this zero percent and it's going to be okay you didn't make that argument jonas but a lot of people do i thought that's where you were going to go but all you're doing is you're saying hey i got a cash flow crunch i don't want to i don't want to play right now and that's cool push pause push pause until you go back to work susan's with us in Texas.

Hi, Susan. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thank you. I have a question for you that has a lot of components, but we just moved to Texas six months ago and bought our house that recently became debt-free, our own, well, except for our mortgage. But now my husband wants to take a job in another city in Texas,

and my question is, I'm not going. I'm sorry, you just moved and took a job. Why is he changing again? I think he is looking for the perfect job that will make him happy since he retired from the military. So I spent 27 years jumping through 100 hoops to move places so that he could be happy in his job. Now we're here. I actually met you when I came to Business Boutique in October and have moved my business here and have really kind of put a lot into it to build it up from nothing again.

So what does he do? Because of moving, he is a helicopter pilot. Okay, and he would like to leave and go somewhere else and do what? Manage a helicopter program. What city are you in now in Texas? San Antonio. Okay. I'm with you.

It's time for him to quit running around in circles. Time to stop. He's looking for love in all the wrong places. And he's not going to find the perfect job uh he's not going to find the perfect job he's not going to find the perfect thing he's going to have to create that wherever he is and um you're done moving you told me that he's heard that from you and you've been supportive of him and it's time now for him to calm his butt down, sit there and fly helicopters, and if he wants to move into managing a helicopter operation, then develop that, start a business, go to work for somebody, and set the goal of being in management instead of being a pilot.

All of that's fine, and you can do every bit of that in San Antonio, Texas. Well, Dave, he's going. I mean, he's going. They're just working out the details of his offer. So the question for me is whether it's better for him to rent something up there or whether we buy him something up there. Oh, so you're going to separate. Because he's unwilling to not go for you, and you're unwilling to go with him. Wow, this is dangerous.

He says he's not unwilling to not go. I know, I know, and I'm trying to, but I can't be responsible for making him happy in his job. Yeah, you have for 20 years. You have for 20 years. You're being very kind we've been we've been married for 36 okay then for 36 years he drug you around all over the the world as a military wife which is fine and you you didn't gripe about it till now but now

you said i'm not moving anymore and he goes i'm moving again anyway come on dude well this is this is the third time since he's retired that we've done this. This is not a career problem. This is a contentment problem. And he keeps looking for a magic pill, and there are no magic pills. And he's not going to find it there either. And now you're going to double your household expenses because now you're going to try to operate two households

and yet one more effort for him. I think it's bad career advice. I think he needs to get a hold of Ken Coleman. Let me send you a copy of the book, The Proximity Principle, for him. But what you're describing is looking for love in all the wrong places. He's looking for contentment and fulfillment in a place. And it's never going to be there. It's a bully in the schoolyard.

Steps back and draws a line in the sand, says step over. You step over the line, steps back and draws another line. And that's what happiness does when you pursue it like this. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. our scripture today second timothy one seven for god gave us a spirit not a fear but a power and love and self-control rosa park said i have learned over the years that when one's mind is made up, this diminishes fear. Knowing what must be done does away with fear. I know we have a lot of podcast listeners all over the world, literally, and a ton of you in Australia. Thank you for that.

I'll be speaking in Sydney this coming Sunday at Hillsong Church for three services. And just check your Hillsong lineup there online for those of you in the Sydney area. If you catch this by podcast in time to make it, we'd love to see you on Sunday.

Come out. Church is free. It's fun. And I'm excited to get to speak at hill song it's an iconic iconic church so very very cool good stuff open phones this hour at 888-825-5225 travis is in washington hi travis welcome to the dave ramsey Well, thanks, Dave. I want to say it's a pleasure and an honor to talk with you. You too. My wife and I, thanks. My wife and I have been Dave Ramsey-ish followers for about 10 years,

and last year we got really serious, wiped out everything, did a serious plastic surgery, got rid of all of our credit cards, and just live on cash only. And I tell you, what a difference it's made in our lives. And now we're kind of on the baby steps four, five, and six. My question is, I'm a sales rep that makes about $75,000 a year as a base salary and about $150,000 to about $160,000 a year in commissions. So we're now looking at what to do with all these commissions.

Sometimes I get a check that's $30,000, sometimes $1,000. And, you know, we're kind of bouncing around with the idea of just splitting it up into thirds, putting a third towards investing, a third towards savings for kids' college, and then adding the other third for paying down mortgage, of course. So I kind of want to get your take on it. That'd be fine. Well, I mean, I would put 15% of your household income, which is around $2.25 right now, unless she's got – is she adding income to this too? Yes.

She's a federal legal. She works for a great little law firm in Edmonds, Washington, and she brings in about $45,000 a year. Okay. So you're operating on somewhere in the neighborhood of $250,000 a year, and I would be saving 15% of that number as your baby step four. And then beyond that, I would split the – I mean, I would do something towards kids' college and just sit down and figure out what that is.

I don't know that it has to be 50% of each to that. I don't think it will take 50% of your commissions to be able to fund your kid's college. It probably won't take that much. So sit down and figure out what you want to do for college, what your strategy is. Are you going to front load it, do it all real quick, or are you going to do it steadily over the next 18 years? What are you going to do for college? And then based on that, everything else beyond that, whatever strategy you come up based on that everything else beyond that whatever whatever strategy you come up with there everything else beyond that goes on the house until the house is done and of course when the house is done you're at baby step seven right right how much you owe

on your home we owe 330 000 on the home yeah you're probably gonna be out of debt in probably three four years on the house then yeah our plan is january of 2024 so a fun little chart set up to actually start you know wiping them out i love it go along touchdown man well done very very well done joseph's in california hi joseph welcome to the dave ramsey show hi jose. Thank you for taking my call. I'm a senior in high school, and we actually are learning about financial literacy. We're actually watching some of your videos with Rachel and Chris, and it's great. Cool. I love it.

I wanted to ask you a question about how I should go about talking to my boss. So recently I got this job, and there's a part in the job where I can make a commission off of a sale. It's not a lot. It's like $200. I have it in writing that I would make $200 for commission. The other day I called my boss to take me kind of through the process of the commission. And he told me that he wants me to split the commission with my partner in business. So I'm kind of worried because I don't want to be missing out on a lot of money. Okay, so it sounds to me like that's not the deal you made. Yeah, it's not the deal we made. The deal we made in writing is that each commission was worth two

hundred dollars for me and my partner so the total would be 400 between both of us okay and so he's going back on his word yes he is going back on his word that's what it sounds like Sounds like, yes. Okay. Well, you know, you've got a choice here. You know, you either just leave because you don't want to work for someone that can't keep their word. Of course. Or you sit down and just try to humbly say, okay, how did I misunderstand this? Because right here it is in writing, and it says when a sale occurs i get 200 bucks yes who's your partner what's that mean well so he's my co-worker and we're actually best friends and um so we got this job i don't know about a month ago we're pretty new do you do something together in order to make the sale yeah we, so we basically go out and pass out flyers,

and for each person that accepts the flyer and they tell the company that they heard about their business through the flyer, we get a commission off of that flyer, basically. Okay. Is the commission $200 or $400? Well, so the commission for me would be $200. Yeah. But if you – I mean, the flyer has a code on it, apparently, right? Yeah, it does.

It has their phone number on it, yes. Now, I'm saying, how would your company know who handed out the flyer? You or the other guy? Is there a distinguishing thing about the flyer? So, no, there's not a distinguishing thing. So they know that we're going out on a job and we'll go to one area of town. Yeah, I'm not sure you understand what you have in writing. Because it sounds to me like he sent you two guys out,

and every lead that comes in and closes you guys are getting 200 bucks and somehow you got in your head you each get 200 bucks well no so i i actually have in writing i know you said that but i'm not sure you understand it i and i think i do understand it i'm not i'm not sure um i'm going to actually have to talk to him but yeah i I mean, do you have it in front of you? I do have it in front of me. I'll pull it up. Give me just a second. Hold on.

Yeah, read it. Yeah, I'll read it. So let's see. When did he send this? Okay. So we got the job December 25th, and so the text message says, we'll also give you a couple hundred dollars each time someone does a cool from the flyers you send out.

I say, okay, cool, sounds good. And then the next text message says a couple hundred to each of you. Okay, well, just ask him how, you know, because, you know, it sounds like the two techs are in conflict with each other. It does sound like they're in conflict with each other. So, you know, I'm curious. It sounds like one of them said what I was thinking the deal was, and then the other one, it sounds like they're in conflict.

So I think you just need to sit down and resolve this and go, listen, I've got to get this straight because I'm not'm i'm not okay with one way i am okay with the other way and you may not want to do the deal i mean but it sounds like that there's uh like like there's a sloppiness in the way you all are communicating start with you don't do deals on text but um yeah i mean i'll just sit down and talk to the guy and go listen is it you know this text says 200 for each of us now are you going to honor that if you're not going to honor that i don't think i really want to do this and then just move on to something else it's not the end of the world uh and then next time get clarity on things uh up front and earlier in the process. So good question.

Interesting. Thanks for calling. That puts us out of the day. Ramsey Show and the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer and phone screener for The Dave Ramsey Show. If you would like to do your debt-free scream live on the show, make sure you visit DaveRamsey.com slash show and register.

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