The Ramsey Show - App - These 3 Things Will Keep You Broke (Hour 1)

Episode Date: August 21, 2023

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🎵 🎵 🎵 🎵 🎵 🎵 🎵 🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Pods Moving and Storage Studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

George Campbell, Ramsey Personality, co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruz, a production of Ramsey Networks, is my co-host today. We're glad you're here. We're here to answer your life and your money questions. Phone number is 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Cecilia is in Atlanta to start off this hour. Hi, Cecilia.

How are you? Hey, Dave. I'm great. Thanks. Good. How can we help? So I'm interested in whether or not I should leverage equity lines for more property when I've tried to not have debt? And is that safe for investment property activity?

Okay, you realize your sentences just ran against each other, right? I mean... That's possible. I don't want any debt. Should I go into debt? No. I mean, that was what you just told me. I'm't want any debt. Should I go into debt? No. I mean, that was what you just told me. I'm confused.

Okay. Okay. Based on there are many, many people buying homes and then getting lines of equity to buy additional homes as investment properties, and then they have this whole domino of their equity lines being leaning on other properties. I think that... You've been spending a lot of time on TikTok, haven't you? No, I'm a realtor and I hear other people saying this. How long have you been a realtor? Five years. Love it. Good. So I know that you kind of had a history of being in real estate and that not eventually being good for you.

And so I don't know if you're firm on that or if the current. Real estate has been great to me. Borrowing on real estate about destroyed me. So what I did as I got caught up in the same kind of crap that's floating around out there right now, it was happening in the early 80s, only it was a different world. Obviously, we didn't have the Internet. Instead, we had these wonderful things called infomercials,

where some goober is sitting by the surf selling tapes and a $3,000 weekend course on how to buy real estate, nothing down. It was the exact same crap as all over the place right now, especially on TikTok. TikTok's got a real version of it going. Okay. Borrow all you can because real estate's always awesome. You're always going to make money. It's passive income, says the get rich quick gurus. Okay. Now I did that. I started from nothing. I was 22 years old. I got $4 million worth of real estate by the time I was 26, over a million dollar net worth, meaning I owed $3 million on $4 million. That's not a bad equity position at all. I had a lot of short-term notes because I was doing flips before there was Chip and

Joanna to tell us how. And so I actually did it. I've owned over 2,000 pieces of property in my life, so I'm not inexperienced at this. And the bank got scared and called our notes. The second bank got wind. We were in trouble and called our notes. And I had 120 days to come up with a million, too, and it was all in real estate. And I had no cash because I believed in leverage because that's what I had been taught by the Get Rich Quick people.

Does any of that sound familiar? Yes. because that's what I had been taught by the get-rich-quick people. Does any of that sound familiar? Yes, and I haven't bought it, but I have clients, and I don't want to counsel them incorrectly. Yeah, so here's the thing. So let me tell you the end of the story, and then I'll tell you my answer so you can understand the why to my answer. The end of the story was I went broke, spent two and a half years of my life losing everything I owned. One year I made $250,000 at 27 years old. The next year,

my taxable income was $6,000. I spent the whole year selling everything to keep it from being foreclosed on. Still, some of it got foreclosed on. And at the end of the day, two and a half years later, I was bankrupt because they called her because they were coming to take the baby furniture out of my house and I was done with them. Okay? Now, that's the end of my story. However, the other part of the story was there was a guy named Robert Allen who would have been on TikTok today if he were still a thing, and he wrote a book called Nothing Down, and

he famously would be dropped into any city without his wallet and buy a house with no identification or credit of any kind within 48 hours there's a goober out there or two doing that on tiktok right now modeling after him okay and so he would do this i remember watching him do it in chicago he did 48 hours he bought three houses nothing down okay and he did this his next book was called creating wealth he went all over america starting real estate clubs called acre and each of these clubs were to feed him leads to buy more real estate nothing down i was in one of those clubs because i was buying nothing down a bunch of us there was ended up being 160 people in our investing club later robert allen filed chapter 11 bankruptcy the whole

thing caught up and took him out too but anyway of the guys 130 of them or so in that club uh now 30 years ago the number of them that did not that still own any rental real estate is about six the rest of them have gone broke the six that still own it paid it off and got out of debt they did not get rich doing this crap no one makes it a decade doing this crap it's crap don't do it was that unclear very clear you walked into it didn't you cecilia no you're the person to answer this question i'm curious what is driving you toward this are you doing are you not great financially no i i took a little course called financial for you know financial uh peace university and i got debt free paid off my mortgage paid off my children's student loans with my husband. What's making you, just all the people doing it that are wanting you to do this?

No, I'm trying, I have very much ignored all that clamor. So I did want to diversify my portfolio. Until you asked me a question about leveraging lines of credit to go buy real estate you ignored it well that's why I'm talking to you is because I haven't done anything cool no no no I'm just saying man on it yeah yeah who who what was it that made you think that that was even a good idea that's what George is asking well I guess my question was had something changed in the world's financial picture at all? No, nothing changes.

This is a way to get around stuff. You know, my dad lived some of what you're talking about as well. He bought, you know, land he couldn't afford and hoped to hold on to it, thinking it's going to turn around and I'm going to make gazoodles on it because a builder's going to want it. And 20 years later that had not yet happened. He died before he saw any of that happen. So I will tell you the other part of the end of the story, the end of the end of the end of the story. Um, I, after I went broke, we started, uh, saving money and investing. And I used some of that money to buy a piece of real estate cash. And they, then I used some of that money to buy a piece of real estate cash and then I used

some of that income to buy another piece of real estate cash. And then in 2008, when everything dove down, I had a big pile of cash and I bought a bunch of stuff for 15 cents on the dollar. Today, I own probably 450, 500 million dollars worth of real estate. It's all paid for. And I never borrowed a dime on any of it. They ain't taking this one. This one's mine. Me and God, we're managing this. No bankers involved. This is The Ramsey Show.

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You do not have to learn all of life's lessons the hard way. You can choose to watch other people be idiots and not do what they did so i could be the sample idiot that doesn't have to so you don't have to go buy a bunch of nothing down real estate and then george can live a proper life and you know buy his first house very conservatively sell it buy another buy another house, pay it off, and by 32 be a millionaire with zero debt. You don't have to go through drug rehab to have a testimony to decide to not do drugs. It's possible. That's so true. Me, I have to do everything the hard way.

But you guys can learn from me because I have a PhD in DUMB. And you did it very publicly dave most people do it in private you chose to broadcast it oh it's worse than that i made it into a brand i made my stupidity into a brand is that the guy i filed for bankruptcy and now he's a guy that files for bankruptcy and tells people how to get out of debt what kind of dumb butt is that well one that knows the track record but knows what it's like you know i mean one that's touched the hot stove that's trying to warn others i can just you know i can you don't have to teach you get grab your kid's hand put it up there you know you just don't touch it i did it once it's not good for you well

i think the heart of it is people are feeling desperate with the economy and inflation i'll never build wealth and so they start taking shortcuts and fear greed and pride kick in a little bit and all of a sudden they make some risky decisions and the risk meter gets broken or they put it aside and decide i'm gonna be the exception to the rule i know what dave says but i saw it work out on a guy on tiktok so therefore it's gonna work out for me yeah it's um i saw a guy the other day said he's his uh 11 year old had a um oh god he had this whole thing that was completely illegal built out. Oh, wow.

Well, I mean, he was funding Roth IRAs, and they didn't have any earned income. Oh, I've seen this one. Yeah. It's some kind of like tax hack, and you can give your kids income. My four-year-old works for me full-time, and I pay them $60,000 a year and I'm funding, that's illegal. The IRS is about to be on your butt. Yeah. When you get audited, you will have like the capital L on your forehead thing that says

loser. Yeah. That's what will happen. Oh my God, you people. So no, you hit it though. It's the trifecta. And I have done all three uh and all three will make you broke greed fear and pride see pride is i buy a car to impress

someone at a stoplight that i will never meet it's like a christmas vacation good looking girl waving at chevy chase and he wrecks his whole family's car, right? It's that. That's your deal. You remember that scene? Oh, that's such a great scene. It's a classic scene. Was it Christie Brinkley?

I think so. I think so, yeah. I re-watched it recently. Yeah, the audience has given me a nod, so Trivial Pursuits got it. Okay. And so that's Pride, you know, and I've done that one. When you buy crap, and Rachel's thing she posted, and you wrote about it in your new book that we haven't,

oh, we haven't told anybody about that yet. Oh, secret. I just finished the manuscript last week, and it's really good. But she talked about it, and she said, would I buy this if no one ever saw it? Oh, yeah. That's your test on the pride button, right? It's a gut check.

Greed is not like, it's not Scrooge McDuck and I'm stacking coins in the cave. That's not greed. Greed is I'm just money motivated to the exclusion of other things that are healthy. You can have a money motivation and not be excluded to the exclusion of other things that are healthy. You can have a money motivation and not be excluded to the exclusion of other things. But if your only button to push is money, that's great. And you're always going to step in the do when you do that. And the third one I love you said is desperate.

That's the worst one. God, that one right there. Man, the other two, I got over the other two by the time I was like 27 28 years old that that desperate one that will really come that's when people you know I'm gonna take the trip to Vegas and I'll hit and that'll save my business that's you know when you get desperate just about 20 seconds later after i get desperate i get stupid and right after i get stupid i get broke right i mean it's crazy like how that's a progressive causal thing it desperate leads to stupid leads to broke when you go oh i've got it's the only way it's my only you're about to screw up when you get in your drama queen gets

to kick it in you're about to screw up but you get in your drama queen gets to kick it in you're about to screw up but they heard that one story of that guy who went to vegas and it was all in the line and he did it and he doubled his money and saved the world and saved the business yeah i've read a couple business books where the guy says you know if i was down i couldn't make payroll on friday so i went to vegas on wednesday and i made payroll and now i'm such and such i've heard. I don't know if they're true. But, you know. They make for a great reason.

Let me just tell you, it's not a good business. It's not business practice. It's not life practice. It's not a life hack. It's just straight up stupidity that somebody got away with, you know. Well, somebody's got to win. The house wins, brother. The house wins.

Look at the quality of their furniture and light fixtures. Better than yours, okay. The house wins. They have more lights and dinghies than you do there's a reason they took your money and they took fools like your money before you got there that's how they got that the house wins sports betting is hilarious people that don't understand statistics sports bet that have if you never had a class in statistics if you took a class in statistics you'd understand where the bookie wins. You'd understand why people want to.

How they pay for Duber with the gold necklace. Was it Caesars? Oh, yeah. The Caesars commercials. That guy, man. How do you pay that guy? And you pay all that production. And you know what their budget is.

A bajillion dollars. For Caesars for sports betting and where do they get the money for that you america oh hello you thinking you're going to get on fan duel and mgm sports and make 20 bucks fan duel is not about fans dueling it's about you losing your fan duels making bank and serious money it's all off of you because they understand statistics hello probability probability of a win and and you don't beat the odds after you play a while you occasionally do and that's what keeps the fools coming back, just like my golf game. There you go. All right, open phones here at 888-825-5225.

One good shot out of 72, and you keep playing the same stupid game over and over. That felt personal. That was personal. There's too much authenticity in this segment. All right, Jim is in Tulsa. Hey, Jim, how are you? I am doing good. Nice to talk to you. You too. How can we help? Yes, sir. I have a what would Dave do in my shoes? At age 62, I have been divorced four years and

four months. Pretty much a divorce that just basically left me pretty much on the street, homeless. I've been living with a family member in a one-room house, one room in a house, and I have been basically getting on your plan since then. I'm having to pay child support alimony and trying to get my life back in order and have been on your plan. Um, pretty much intense up until, uh, just last week. Uh, I have, uh, accumulated, uh, quite a bit of wealth and I'm just trying to get an idea in moving into a, well, you drove by being on the street to accumulated wealth like nothing just happened what happened okay well in intense i have been saving basically my budget plan since i've been living you know since divorce uh has been basically

spending one dollar for every $2 I save. And at this point, I'm closing last Friday. I was worth $1.158 million. You did that in four years from the street? Yes, sir. Why are you still living in the relative's house in one room? That's a little strange. Well, that's my question, too.

Yes, it is strange, but I'm just trying to get back on my feet. I think you're back on your feet. You think I'm ready. You're a millionaire. I think you're back on your feet. I don't know if you're emotionally back on your feet, but I think you're financially back on your feet. It sounds like you got run over by a truck emotionally. I'm sorry. It's obvious you were hurt

really, really bad. You're still reeling from that, and it still took some of your confidence. It's obvious you were hurt really, really bad. And you're still reeling from that. And it still took some of your confidence. It sounds like you've done an incredible job with the money piece of this. So I'd go buy me a little house, man. I think it's time. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The ramsey show george george camel ramsey personality is my co-host y'all

should be here at the breaks they're more entertaining than the show all right the stuff you don't get to hear yeah britney is with us in st louis hey britney how are you i'm good how are you better than i. How can we help? So I just paid off $9,000 worth of credit card debt, and I'm credit card debt free now. And I have downloaded your EveryDollar budgeting app. I'm trying a new way and trying to get on a complete full budget, not like knowing what's in my account and stuff. And I bought the premium version of your app. And I'm kind of wondering, because I'm trying to get out of living paycheck to paycheck. And I've accounted for everything that I put into savings and then all of my bills and then my last debt, which is my car. I have accounted for all of that and like groceries and all of that. But where do you put, because it's a zero-based budget,

so where do you put the money that you don't plan to spend at all, like the buffer that's in your checking account that you roll over like every week or every month? So you're saying you went under in some categories on your budget, giving you extra than you planned for? Basically, yes. So you didn't spend every dollar or you're saying or you're saying the money that you're setting aside in a sinking fund what do you do with that um so how much money did you start your month with on this budget it's about 3,800 okay is every one of the 3,800 have a name

no i have like about $200 left. There we go. That's what I was after. So if you've got money left while you're still creating the budget, that's going to go toward your next baby step, which for you is this car debt, right? Right. It sounds like it does have an assignment.

So if you've got $200 left at the end of the budget, you're going to go back to your car debt and add $200 extra payment. Okay. Any money you can squeeze out of your budget that you're going to go back to your car debt and add $200 extra payment. Okay. Any money you can squeeze out of your budget goes on your debt snowball until you're done with baby step two. And that 200 is what you squeezed out of your budget by managing well. You are cool. How's it feel to be large and in charge? I'm excited. Yeah. I want to be weird. I don't want to be normal anymore. Tell people what it feels like, Brittany,

because I know we were messaging on Instagram. I said, hey, call the show so we can dig into the details. But how does it feel to actually pay attention to your money and plan for it instead of just see where it went with one of these tracking apps that are out there? Does it give you peace and confidence for the future? It does, yes. I mean, because I came from a life of just, like,

not even knowing where it all went at all. Like, I literally came from not even writing anything down in a register to, like, basically to your app. So this is kind of new for me. And the other side of this, if you, let's say you budgeted $150 for groceries, you spent $120. And so you've got $30 left over that might be sitting in a checking account, and you can then

roll that over to the debt and attack it even more if you can you know if any of your budget items come in under at the end of the month that should give you the extra cash agreed yes that's what george is saying throw that at the debt too but right now we know there's 200 and something now in addition to that separate subject not not the $3,800, but just keep a running balance in your checking account, that's different. Your every dollar is not your checking account. Every dollar is what you're doing with this month's income. Okay? Okay.

That's different because you could keep $200 in your checking account, or $800 in your checking account, or $4 in your checking account, but that doesn't enter into the 3,800 discussion. If you, let's say you started the month with $207 in your checking account. Okay. And you had $3,800 come in and $3,800 go out, but with your every dollar budget, then that means you would still have $207 left in your checking account. So you can keep a pad, a little pad in there, and you should actually end the checking account. Does that make sense to you?

Right, yeah, because that's what I was wondering. You know, like when the car is paid off eventually, you know, and I don't have any more payments. Then what will be your next baby step? The emergency fund. The emergency fund. The emergency fund. We're going to add to the $1,000 account until it's up to three to six months of expenses. So how much is your car payment?

It's $452. Okay. And if you had a month like this month, you have $652 going against the car, right? Mm-hmm. Okay. So you put $652 in your baby step three and your your 1000 became 1652 and then the next month it's uh 2300 and four follow me assuming the numbers stayed exactly the same which they never do exactly the same but right but um but i mean whatever you squeeze you can get out of this

out of this you put the squeeze on the baby step that's what george was saying and that's the beauty of the every dollar app because now you're telling your money what to do instead of wondering where it went how old are you i'm 30 oh you are gonna be so rich what do you make? I make about $50,000 a year right now, but I just got a promotion at my job, and it will probably start after the first of the year, and I don't know what my compensation is going to be yet for that. But more. That is awesome. That's only going to accelerate your baby steps.

And, Brittany, go to everydollar.com slash budgeting. Our friend Rachel Cruz is doing a free webinar three days from now, August 24th. So tune in for that. Make sure you sign up. And all of you listening, go check that out. Rachel's going to walk you through how to set up an every dollar budget. And it's not going to be boring because it's Rachel. She makes everything fun. You may not know what happened, but you'll be laughing. No, I mean, you'll know what happened. It's great. But she's going to cover the irregular income and also how the baby steps

work with every dollar a little bit a little bit of what we're talking about just now but probably in a whole lot more detail in this webinar it's all free by the way so where'd you say we go everydollar.com budgeting okay and that's to sign up for rachel's free webinar i was trying to remember what it was and i'm looking around i know it's written around down here somewhere, but I knew you would know it. I love a good link. Yeah, and you're going to be doing some of those after the baby comes, right? That's right. In September, I'll be doing a few of these.

So I can't beat Rachel, but if you want me, you can settle. You'll get the – listen, Rachel's funny. George has got the snark. You don't want to miss the snark. If that's your speed, I'm your guy. When we have snark and budgeting together, we have a masterpiece. You're going to love it. Wow.

You're going to love it. Jason is in Boston. Hey, Jason, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Millennial snark. Hello. Hey, what's up, man? Thank you very much. Nice to, thanks for taking the call.

Sure. So my question is, I am saving for a house right now and I have some other debts that I believe are healthy debts that I'm wondering if I should pay off before, you know, saving and saving up money for the house. Um, to elaborate on that a little bit, just some things here. Um, right now I am saving 25% of every paycheck. How much other debt do you have? So the debt that I have is I owe $36,000 on my car. And then I have a mortgage for a condominium that comes to about 900. Now the mortgage, um, I'm not living there. I'm renting that out. Um, and you know, the tenant lives there and, you know,

that was my first little property. Now I'm living with my fiance and her condo and my car payment is seven 75 a month. However, the interest rate on that is 1.99. And as far as finances go, I have about a solid three months of living expenses in my bank account. What do you make? My salary from my job is $100,000 a year. And then I do make rental income from my condo. Yeah, and how old are you? I am 37. Okay.

I'll tell you what, when you come back from this break, we will tell you what we would do in your situation, which is basically nothing you're doing. This is The Ramsey Show. George Campbell Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Jason is with us in Boston. He and his fiance are saving up for another house. He's got a condo worth about $900K that he rents out. $775 car payment at one point whatever percent, makes $100,000, and was wondering about whether he ought to pay off

the car or not or be saving for a house. And that's about how far we got in the discussion. Is that a fair summary of what you told me, sir? Yeah, that's a fair summary. Okay, George. The condo is not worth $900,000, though. It's a small condo. Oh, I'm sorry. You were paying $900,000 a month on the mortgage? Correct. Oh, I misunderstood. What's the condo worth?

The condo, I bought it for $150,000, and it's currently worth $230,000. What do you owe on it? $121,000. Okay, that's what I'm after. Okay, cool. I misunderstood. I apologize. And your goal now is to get a primary residence?

That is correct. For you guys to live in? Correct. Do you have any cash? Do I have any cash? Yes. In my bank, I have three months of emergency savings, and then I keep one month of operating expenses in my checking how much is that all that together it's about 18,000 in my savings

and it is about six in my checking account okay we'll call it 24 okay now in addition to that money I have $25,000 saved up for the down payment of a house. And what's the balance owed on the car? $36,000. You told me that earlier. Okay. All right. Good. So you have the cash to pay this car off, but you told us at the beginning of the call that you want to keep it around because it's a healthy debt? You know, the interest is 1.99%, and I feel like I am making a lot more than that on, you know, wherever I'm investing this $25,000. So you have $36,000 at 1.99%, right?

Yeah. So two, we'll call it. And your $25,000 is sitting at what interest rate? Anywhere from 6 to 11. Your cash is sitting at 6 to 11? Yeah. Right now, yes, that is correct. Where?

6 to 11. So I use a credit union that's giving me a fantastic interest rate. Is this a CD or something? You're not getting anywhere near close to 11 on that 25, dude. You're talking about something that mattered. You got like $1,000 at 11, and then it bounces up from there. Maybe my numbers are wrong. So, for example, in my bank, the $24,000 is in the bank.

Let's call it 5%. Can we? Okay. So, 5 over 2 is a 3 spread. 3% of $36,000, right? This is what you're making. Yes. Have you actually done the math on that? No. Okay. It's $1,000, right? This is what you're making. Yes. Have you actually done the math on that?

No. Okay. It's $1,000. It's $1,000. Okay. So you're not getting rich. Right. This is not some big sophisticated Wall Street play.

You're parlaying a credit union savings account against a car loan, and you made a whole $1,000. You didn't make nothing. But what about the money that I'm saving for the house, that $25,000, which is not included in these numbers that we talked about? That money is being invested. No, but your premise is that your debt was good debt because you were making so much money on it.

And I'm saying that's laughable. A thousand dollars is a joke. You make $100,000 a year. That's not laughable. That's a real income. Yeah. Yeah. You're burning a lot of brain calories to make a grand.

I agree. Okay, that's what I'm saying. And by the way, the only way to make that spread is if you had 36 grand in savings, which you don't. And so it's actually less than that. You're new to this, and you kind of walked into this, and we're abusing you. But I'm trying to make the point just as lovingly as I can. Okay, so here's the thing.

If I woke up in your shoes, having done all the stupid butt things I've done in my life, Jason, which by the way, everything you've done is brilliant compared to some of the stupid butt stuff I've done. So that's how I learned all of this was from experience having done stuff the wrong way. If I woke up in your shoes, my son is close to your age. And he came in, he sat down and said and said dad this is my situation based on what you know about money and based on the fact that tens of millions of people come to you for advice on how to handle money what would you tell me to do if you're my son here's what i'd tell you to do sell your condo pay off your car today use all the money you can scrape together after that above your emergency fund as your down payment on your new home, and get married as soon as possible.

That's what the old man would tell you, and he just did. Okay. And you hear where that comes from is your largest wealth-building tool is your income. And you've been trying to find an angle on this car. You're trying to find an angle on this car. You're trying to find an angle on this condo. And you're trying to figure out a way that all this stuff is smart. You make really good money combined with your new spouse. You're going to make really good money.

If the two of you will lean into that wonderful income and quit giving it to banks, you're going to turn into a lot of money. That's what we want for you, Jason. And so every time we answer a question on this show, it's because we love you guys and we want you to win. And we're going to get right up in your grill because we love you. And let me show you the math on that, Jason, just to show you what your life could be. And it's going to be a lot more peaceful and a lot less complicated. You sell that condo, you're probably going to walk away with about a100,000. You take all the cash you have and you pay off the car today,

that's going to still leave you with $7,000. He had $25,000 and $24,000. $25,000 and $18,000 He said he had $18,000 in his emergency fund. And then he had another $25,000. He had $50,000.

Oh. So you're going to get even more cash than that. $50,000 cash plus the condo. Now you have a fully funded emergency fund, no condo to worry about, and you have a down payment for your first primary residence and it's going to be a whole lot more than you got today.

Yeah, it's going to be close to $100,000. And you can be back to investing in real estate later on down the road. With cash. What are you going to do with cash? With cash. But the thing that people do is, and here's what I want everybody else out there to listen to. Here's what we just did. And I had to learn to do this because I'm a math nerd.

Math nerds do what Jason did, and I used to do it all the time. Okay, I'm making, I'm only paying 1.99, and I'm making 5 to 11. Okay, that's great. Until you actually multiply it by the number of actual dollars. And then it becomes like you can buy a Happy Meal, right? And so all of your sophisticated gyrations end up being a mathematical joke because what nerds do is we look at the spreads and all the stuff, and we never fail to look. We always fail to go all the way to the end result.

And the end result is not much money for all this gyration. And when you actually do the actual dollars coming out of all your bull crap techniques that somebody taught you on TikTok or whatever, then, you know, when you actually run the actual dollars out and then you factor in risk you've not you know it's dumb it ends up just being dumb well and that car is a depreciating asset yeah and so it's going down in value as you hang around that 36 grand in debt and so that makes it even more laughable as a healthy debt and here's the other thing that backs this up the when we studied 10 167 millionaires the number of millionaires that we interviewed that said,

you know, I borrowed money on my car at a low interest rate, and I put it into my credit union in a CD, and that's how I became a millionaire. The number of them that answered the question, how did you become a millionaire using that technique, was precise, out of 10,167, the number that did it that way was precisely zero. None of them did that. The number of them that became wealthy by leasing their cars,

none of them did that. The number of them that used a whole life life insurance policy to build wealth, precisely zero. None of them said used a whole life life insurance policy to build wealth precisely zero none of them said i got rich and it was freaking whole life that's what did it not one of them said that they all expressed regret about cars and rip off financial products as being the things that held them back, they would have been millionaires sooner. And going into debt and credit cards and going on a trip they couldn't afford. When we asked them about their financial mistakes, they always outlined the things that regular people do all the time and strut around and act like they got airline miles on my

card. Precisely the number of millionaires that we met that said, Dave, you know, I made it all with my airline miles. Precisely zero. So the data from actual millionaires, not your broke freaking frat brother, tells you otherwise. Hey, George Camel here. If you love the show and you want a deeper dive on your money journey, we've got a weekly newsletter that gives you helpful articles and tips on following the Ramsey way. Just go to RamseySolutions.com today to sign up for the newsletter. Again, that's RamseySolutions.com to sign up for our weekly newsletter.