The Ramsey Show - App - They Went From "Ish" to Intense! (Hour 1)

Episode Date: June 25, 2020

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. My co-host today on the Dave Ramsey Show, Ken Coleman of the Ken Coleman Show. He talks about careers and jobs and life, and we talk about life and money, so we got you covered today. Anything you want to talk about, we are here to help.

Open phones at 888-825-5225. Ken does a show on SiriusXM and, of course, does that as a podcast as well, broadcast on YouTube as well, and now 50-plus radio stations around America carrying the Ken Coleman Show. So you've already been working today. Yes, sir. We just finished two hours and quick water break, and here we go, three more. There you go.

Beat's working for a living. Game on. Yeah. I enjoy it. At least I'm getting my money's worth out of you. That's true. That is true. Oh oh it's so much fun you know i actually enjoy these days where i get to co-host because you know you just kind of keep that rhythm going and you move over one studio 10 feet two hours over there three hours over here that's right the studios are contiguous for those of you that can't see through your radio. Yes. But when you visit Ramsey Solutions, you'll get to see both of them in action,

which means you can sit around here a long time and watch radio if you wanted to. And can we just say how grateful we are that people are here watching again? Yes. It's been so energizing to see people outside the glass during the shows. Human beings are just a good thing. Yeah, it's been really fun. Mostly. Great group of folks out there today.

If you're watching on the YouTube channel, you might get a glimpse of them, but it's always fun. Smiling faces, and it really is. It's been great to see people back in the building. Amen. Open phones today. If you want to talk about your life and your money, the phone number, 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Jamie is in Florida. Hi, Jamie. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. Thank you for taking my call. How are you guys doing? Better than we deserve.

What's up? Wonderful. Dave, so thank you. With all of this happening with the coronavirus, you know, we're here on baby step five, kind of wondering if we at this point, which by the way, I have an 18-month-old child. That's the only child we have right now. Wonderful. I'm kind of wondering with everything that is happening right now, you know, I've obviously, I'm thinking about college funding for my child, but you know, with everything that is happening, I'm wondering about the rest for my child, but with everything that is happening, I'm wondering about the restructuring of colleges, universities, and obviously how expensive they are. Some of them are not operating the same.

Should we maybe focus a little bit more right now on baby step six rather than baby step five in order to kind of keep going. You know, I still want to have a fund for my child for his college, but, you know, at this point with everything that is going on, they're restructuring everything with schools and all that kind of stuff being online. How wise would I be in focusing a little bit more on baby step six rather than baby step five? I don't mind you focusing more on baby step six than five if you want to with an 18-month-old. I think your reason for doing it is wrong. You're going to have a cost of education of your kid. Now, it may look different. It may have looked different anyway.

We've got a student loan epic plague across america bad metaphor right now but yeah um i mean you know approaching two trillion dollars at breakneck speed of stupid student loan debt that's going to affect higher education more than covet is okay by far because it ain't. Because it ain't going away. It ain't going away, and there's no vaccine for that crap. Okay? Right. So this other thing's going to level out, and there'll be some lasting effects,

but will it be completely restructuring higher education? Oh, I doubt it. I doubt it. Will it have different components to it? Yeah, probably, but online learning was on the way anyway because it was cheaper. You were seeing a lot of that in the career space, aren't you, Ken? Yeah. I mean, you've got MOOCs and things like this.

Nobody knew what a MOOC was three or four years ago. I don't know what a MOOC is. You don't know what a MOOC is? What's a MOOC? It's a fancy way of saying modular online courses. Oh. MOOC. Okay.

Yeah. And so, you know, it's where you can get qualified for a career by taking an online class. And you're absolutely right. Online classes were already happening. Here's what's happened. Because of COVID, you're obviously seeing a lot of students and parents reconsider the cost associated with living on campus. And so you're going to see colleges and universities all move very quickly to offer online learning

so that they can continue to get tuition. But I just don't see, I get what he's saying. He's kind of going, but it's such, he's so ahead of the game in baby step five you're gonna be okay either way would i abandon it on the print would i abandon saving for college right now on the premise that covet is going to completely restructure the higher education system no no no no that's melodramatic i don't think that i mean is the fall gonna be different yeah is the next fall gonna be that much different? More because of student loans than because of COVID.

2021 fall. And so, no, that's a prediction. I've been doing this for 30 years, and I'm pretty regularly wrong in my predictions. Yeah, but you're right about the fact that he's going to want education money. Yeah, that much we know. Whatever it looks like. And they're going to charge you. You know, they're going to charge you for it.

You're going to need some money to send a junior to college. So let's figure out how we're going to pay for it. He's winning the game. Don't change the rules. It's 15 years. It's not even going to be taught online. It's going to be a hologram. Obi-Wan Kenobi is going to appear in your living room floor and teach you. Who the crap knows how it's going to be done by then, right?

Think about what technology looked like 15 years ago. You add 15 years to that 18-month-old. You've got a to be done by then, right? That's right. I mean, think about what technology looked like 15 years ago. I mean, you add 15 years to that 18-month-old. You got a 17-year-old, right? I mean, it's not, you know, so it's going to be different, dude. But there's a lot of marketplace forces that are probably more powerful than COVID, probably. But what do I know? I don't know anything.

But you asked me, and that was your problem. So open phones at 888-825-5225. You know, this is one of the reasons that Baby Step 5 is probably the most vague of all the baby steps. I mean, we're very specific. Baby Step 3, three to six months of expenses. There's no numbers on Baby Step 5. Baby Step 5 is fund college. baby step three three to six months of expenses there's no numbers on baby step five baby step five is fund college well there's no kids well we skip it kids are grown well we skip it the kids are 17 it's a different funding issue than they're 18 months old and so it's all you know

we have this income or that income and it was very hard for us when we were laying those things out and started teaching them years ago to come up with a guideline, a mathematical guideline that says, you know, if you save this much for college, you're going to be okay. Because you're dealing with a short period of time of saving, 18 years or less. And we don't know how many kids and we don't know ratio of kid to household income. There's so many things that you cannot adjust for where like 15 saving for retirement we know that'll get you there that was pretty safe so but fun college is very customizable and in in jamie's case he's got a you know young child maybe other children will be added to the litter before it's done and uh you know we we got a long time to work on this, and so if he puts more emphasis over on six than on five, that's not unusual.

Because if you get the house paid off, it's one way to fund college, because you can turn around and cash flow college. I was getting ready to say, yeah. He's so far ahead of the game. You're doing good. You're doing good, Jamie. Your baby steps work. There's a reason why there's seven of them,

and there's a reason why they're sequential. They work. Yeah. Yeah, they're not. It's a good question. It's a good question. It's a good discussion. It's interesting. The way this stuff is, the current climate is shifting the way people think.

It's a good thing in some cases. It gets us thinking outside the box. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. most people's money problems come from not paying attention that's why before i spend a dime of my money on something i do the research and make sure it's going to live up to what it claims. Recently, I got a great pair of sunglasses from a company called Shady Rays. When you're looking for sunglasses, it feels like your options are limited. Name brand sunglasses cost too much and the cheap knockoffs are ugly and really don't protect your eyes. Discovering Shady Rays is a game changer.

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Andrew's in New Jersey. What's up, Andrew? Yes. Hi, Dave. Can you hear me? Absolutely. What's going on, sir? It's hard to hear you for some reason. You're fading in and out.

Okay. That must be your phone. Okay, well, my landline, so, but here's my situation. I've been with my job for 26 years and the last 15 as a financial consultant. But in any event, I was offered a voluntary severance package because of COVID. The company is trying to cut expenses, and they were offered this package. In my case, I would receive about 91 weeks of salary and about 16 months in health benefits. And I'm trying to make a decision whether I should take that package or stay put. The company does not anticipate that any involuntary layoffs would come about,

but that's my scenario. Yeah, well, that's a pretty good offer. The question is, would you stay whether this was offered to you, or would you be looking towards something else in the future? Where do you want to end up, and how does this affect it? Yeah, I would like to stay with the company, but because of the nature of my job, I do things similar to Dave in terms of we have institutional clients. On a given day, I'll go to a client and meet with maybe seven to nine employees per day, and they ask questions mostly towards retirement. But I have sales quotas, and some years I hit it, some years I don't. So it's a little stressful.

And, you know, even trying to follow Dave's policy in terms of providing advice, you know, sometimes when you do that, you don't really hit your numbers all of the time. So short answer, where do you want to be working in 10 years? I would like to stay in, I would like to continue to do financial consulting without the sales quota aspect of it. Okay. How can you do that? I'm not sure. Broker dealer. Go to work for a broker dealer, right? Yeah. Yeah. Or work. Yeah. And then essentially get to a point where you're essentially working for yourself. So your answer was 50%. Yeah, I'd stay, but I don't like all these things about it.

And the answer is you want to move on, and this is a great opportunity. It's a big check. I mean, this is – 91 weeks? They're paying you to step into your future. Yeah, you get like a signing bonus into your future, man. I would go. Yeah, I would join a financial advisory group that has a direct-to-consumer aspect to it,

meaning where you've been doing it on the wholesale side and working for a wholesaler, but this is the typical, like our SmartVestor Pros, where they meet with individuals at their kitchen table or they meet with individuals in their conference room, and kneecap to kneecap, and they do the right thing for them, which is what you're concerned about, and they build a book of business. And over the years, every year you add clients to your book of business, you lose a few, but mainly if you do a good job, you just keep building the book over time.

And you work 26 more years at that, you're going to have a serious bank of business built, and you will have had a very rewarding career. I'll tell you what's going on here. Andrew's a very, very bright man and a very successful man, but he is facing what many of us face. It's part of our human condition. Change is so unknown and thus so scary that we will talk ourselves into staying somewhere that we don't want to stay. 74% of Americans know this is pre-COVID data. 74% of Americans knew that they could move out of their current job, the day job, into something that they would really enjoy, yet they don't do it.

And there's something about all of us. The devil that I know. That's right. This isn't an Andrew thing. This is all of us. We would rather be miserable than uncomfortable. Because, see, I know my misery. I can steal myself.

I can put up with it. I can talk myself into it. But you talked to me about oh i gotta step out it's like oh and let me tell you that's what's going on there and he's not alone no that's everybody we all have a little of that some are more change averse than others and personality style and an age or demographic or whatever but so the answer is he has to get clear when you begin to ask him that he has to start to go okay what are the steps what are the ultimate areas that i want to be in and and how would I get there?

And so what is unknown becomes known, and now we can see, oh, this step leads to this step, to this step, to this step, and I can get there. And they're going to give him a really nice package to be able to go do that. So that's how we have to overcome the fear of the unknown, is go dive into it. Get all the answers to what are the multiple places and multiple paths to those places. Then it's not so scary. Well, when the competence comes up because you've got some of the controllables controlled and then you start to actually be winning at the thing, the competence goes up right

after that. And simultaneously, the confidence. That's right. Goes up and the anxiety goes down. And so you get into a groove. You know, you get into a rhythm. The first time I sat down at a microphone, the first time you sat down at a microphone, our hearts were in our throats.

They were racing. And we talked too fast. And I talked too loud. I always talk too loud. I remember one of the first radio stations we got. I was so excited the day we syndicated. And we had two stations. And a guy calls.

He was Russellville, Kentucky. A guy calls up and he goes, hey, y'all need to turn Dave's mic down. He's over-modulating. Because I was just screaming. I was wired. I was so pumped. And it was just, all it was was my, you know, I didn't have confidence. I was scared. I was excited in the, you know, I didn't have confidence. I was scared.

I was excited in the middle of that because we had a new station, our first radio station. Now we've got 609. And now I'm bored with it. Not really. But I mean, I have to watch because I forget that I got 17 million people on the other side of every word right here. And I can say something stupid that would end my career. So I have to, because I'm a little too relaxed after 30 years of doing it. But that's the other end of the story.

The first day is your heart's in your stomach's in your throat, both of them. And then later on, you just get in the rhythm of it. You get in the groove. Yeah, the calm comes on the other side of that confidence. You're just calm. I got this. That's how it works. And he'll get there.

Lance is with us. Lance is in Florida. Hey, Lance, how are you? Hi, Mr. Ramsey and Mr. Coleman. Thank you for taking my call today. Our pleasure, sir. How can we help? Well, recently my wife and I sold our home,

and we made $140,000 on the sale of that house. We're very excited. It put us out of debt. And we're able to put into our emergency fund, a six-month emergency fund. Way to go. So we're really excited to be at that. Yeah, we're really excited. We worked really hard at our current.

I own my own business. And, you know, the last couple years have been just crazy but worthwhile. Long story short, I want to make sure I don't make some dumb, dumb butt mistake, as you might say, with my money, what's left of it, making sure that it goes to, you know, funding a future fund for my children. And then also, you know, what we, me and my wife should do next, if we should just, you know, try and buy a house out cash, outright cash,, if we should just, you know, try and buy a house outright for cash or if we should be trying to keep up with the Joneses, so to speak,

and get a bigger home and put a 20% down payment. Yeah, I'm a little stuck, and I just wanted to pose that question to you all and see what advice you might give. So how much of the $140,000 left after you did your emergency fund and became debt-free? Yeah, so there's 121 left. Oh, wow. Okay. That's good.

And your household income is what? So you would want to know my specific or what my business brings in. Your taxable income annually in your household. Sure. Yes, sir. Last year it was about $40,000. Okay. And how expensive a home would you buy?

That's your whole household, you and your wife both. You're making $40,000. We're making $40,000. We do run a lot of expenses through our business, like health insurance and things like that. Well, that's normal. Okay. Yeah, we bring in about 75.

Last year, my business brought in 100,000. And your wife doesn't work outside the home? No, sir. She stays home with our daughter, and she's going to be homeschooling. That's important to us. Cool. Okay. But it would be our intention to buy something, you know, under 150, no more than

150, 180. Well, I mean, yeah, I would do that then and just put the rest of this money down and pay it off as quickly as you can. You're not going to have much of a mortgage. You end up at the credit union, the local bank, because the mortgage company is not going to touch a mortgage that small. And just get you a little fixed rate loan and get her knocked out. I'd love that idea. Definitely do that. And then use your income to fund rate loan and get her knocked out. I'd love that idea. Definitely do that. And then use your income to fund your retirement and your kid's college. You've got plenty of time on that. Good job, man.

Congratulations. What a great start. Amen. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Families all over the country are discovering a faith-based and budget-friendly way of meeting health care costs, whether they're anticipated or completely unexpected. For example, take the Olcheski family from LaGrange, Texas. Jeff and Carice had just celebrated the birth of a new baby boy. Shortly after, they had another expensive medical issue come up. They could have faced a huge financial setback.

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Hey, guys, how are you? Pretty good. Doing good, thanks. Welcome. Where do you guys live? Cincinnati. Cool. Well, welcome to Nashville. And all the way down here to do your debt-free scream. Oh, yeah. We're excited.

How much have you paid off? $109,000 in 20 months. Way to go. Very cool. And your range of income during that time? Started out at $40,000 and made it up to $150,000. All right. Good. Good for you guys. So what kind of debt? What do you do for a living? I'm a microbiologist at Procter & Gamble. Oh, there's that. And I am actually a finished carpenter. what kind of debt what do you do for a living um i'm a microbiologist at procter and gamble oh there's that and i am actually a finished carpenter love it very good very cool so what kind of debt

was the 109 000 it was pretty much all mine it was student loan debt ah and one and one car one car okay how long you guys been married since 2014 okay what happened 20 months ago that set you on this journey well um it was it was interesting we had um i guess when i got out of school i had almost 150 in debt and um we had sold a house after i graduated grad school and put a little bit of money towards it and then we kind of got stuck and wasn't really paying on it. We were doing Dave Ramsey-ish. And we had listened to it in the car and was kind of attempting, but we weren't making very much progress. You were listening and you weren't hearing. Exactly.

We were doing our own plan of yours. Exactly. And then I was doing a postdoc, and we got pregnant pregnant and then I immediately lost my job. Of course. That's why that worked. Of course. And so it kind of turned into a, well, what now? So we moved back to Ohio and luckily, right after our daughter, Arabella, was born, we

were able to get in. I got a new job working at Procter & Gamble and we really sat down and said, okay, this is the time we need to get out of this down and said, okay, this is the time. We need to get out of this debt. We want to get this done for her. And so we set a goal that by Phillip's 30th birthday, we wanted to be completely out of debt. And then we got pregnant again. And so we're due next month, July 22nd. Yay! Congratulations. Thank you.

It's my birthday, by the way. It's a special day for that child. Oh, wonderful. Happy early birthday. Yeah, so we decided we wanted to move up that goal and get it done before the baby came. And sure enough, here we are. I love it. Very cool. How did you get connected to us in this journey? So that actually goes back to when I was kind of in high school.

My parents had taken the class. And so I'd kind of been paying attention to it. And then also at work, we listened to it on the radio. Oh, wow. So we had kind of been along with that. And then when we actually first started dating very early on, she had told me how much debt she was in and so i kind of said

let's kind of pay attention and listen to this and uh so you're a financial peace baby growing up and you just kind of you know so you knew what to do you just had to go do it correct yeah and you had to teach her about it yeah okay so the so the radio show got you going again then yeah all right and then once we started going gazelle, we did do a refresher course at our church. Oh, good. Okay. And we actually signed up and went and really, really got into it then and really had the support system there.

Perfect. So you went all the way through Financial Peace University after all? Yes. Okay. Very good. Very good. And that just puts the gas on the fire, gets everything lined up and running smooth and all that, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Good for you guys. I'm proud of you. Thanks. We're proud of ourselves, too. Very good job. I've got to ask you, you guys get really intense, and I'm just curious what you would tell listeners

who are considering doing this. Yeah. How do you go from ish to intense? Yeah. And I want you to talk about the power of momentum once you decided. How did it begin to build in your particular journey? I think for us, it was once I had the new job, we realized that if we didn't change the way that we were living and just put all that money towards the debt, that we could do it because we'd been living on rice and beans kind of a diet for quite a while anyways, just trying

to make it with a brand new baby and only his income so it was kind of like all right we're just going to do this let's just get it done and we're gonna you know put everything to it and i mean a couple times it meant maybe not going on a vacation or not getting something or you know somebody being like oh you're in this new job why aren't you you know buying this house or buying a brand new car like why are you still driving your honda you mean you actually had to say no yeah yeah and so i think luckily we were each other's support system and it was kind of a little reminder whenever one of us wanted to do something kind of big be like no come on we're doing really close we're getting closer we're getting closer and so i i think just being each other's support

system i think for her a lot of it was with me being a finished carpenter when we we had gotten a house when we moved back to cincinnati and me being me i wanted to fix it all up and make it ours and she had to reel reel me in and tell me no no we can't do that no projects yeah exactly student loans the project exactly the kitchen can wait the bathroom remodel can wait not so serious of a follow-up question but with all that rice and beans how quickly did Student loans the project. Exactly. The kitchen can wait. The bathroom remodel can wait. So that can wait. Not so serious of a follow-up question, but with all that rice and beans, how quickly did you have a steak? It was about a couple weeks later because it was actually our anniversary.

So we went ahead and saved it. There we go. But we did it. We went and got the steak. Good for you. And we had a couple grocery items we had a priority for. You live like no one else. So now you can live and give and raise your children like no one else.

Change your family tree like no one else. Way to go. Yep. Thank you. We were pretty proud of ourselves, especially with COVID. We were able to still. Knock it out. Knock it out.

Stay on the game. Yep. Yeah. Very good. Very, very cool. Good job. You're heroes. We're proud of you. Thank you. And you brought Arabe Yep. Yeah. Very good. Very, very cool. Good job. You're heroes. We're proud of you.

Thank you. And you brought Arabella with you. We did. We're going to help you with the debt-free scream. I'm Arabella. All right. I know she likes that stage. Oh, yeah.

She was on it before we went on the air. She was. Doing a performance. She's pretty amazing. Can you wave to Dave? Hey, baby girl. All right. Very cool.

All right. It's Phillip and Amber and Arabella from Cincinnati, Ohio. $109,000 paid off in 20 months. We got a copy of Chris Hogan's book for you, Everyday Millionaires. That's the next chapter in your story. They're making $40,000 to up to now $150,000 and another child on the way. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream.

One, two, three. hear a debt-free scream one two three we're debt-free i love it that is how it's done you know it's funny that that things happen in our lives that get our attention uh sometimes they're a culture wide thing uh you know a 2008 crash of the economy 9-11 sometimes it's you have a child and i gotta tell you the number of times that we meet someone who goes from ish to intense because of that baby that changes man i mean you hold that child and you go uh-oh this just got real i gotta be a grown-up yeah adults devise a plan and follow what children do what feels good i can't be a child anymore i gotta be a grown-up because i got a child and it it's it's something snaps and it's funny i i don't i think

it happens with almost everyone. It's fairly universal. It is because what happens is the transition from it's not about me. You know, I can deal, maybe I'm okay dealing with this risk. Maybe I'm okay with some of this misery. But we start thinking above ourselves, bigger than ourselves. And I don't know if it gets much bigger as a human being than when you look at the life of a child that relies on you. And you're not only there to take care of them, but also guide them and build a platform for their future in this beautiful young couple.

And when you look at Arabella there, she's just a little princess, and she's dancing around on that stage, has no idea yet the impact on her future that her mom and dad have really set forth. And it's exciting. It's about getting outside of ourselves and go, you know what? I may not have gotten it for me, but I'm going to get it for my kids. And, hey, whatever it takes, we're fine with it. Yeah. And whatever the wake-up call is.

That's right. Right now we're doing an event tonight at 7 p.m. Central Time. You can watch it. It's a free live stream. Chris Hogan, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author. Rachel Cruz, number one bestselling author, Ramsey personality. It's kind of synonymous to say those two things at the same time, because all of them are. But we're doing an event tonight called What Now?

COVID-19 and Your Money. We're doing it live on the stage here at Ramsey. There'll be several hundred folks in the studio audience with us, and we're broadcasting it live stream for you. Free. Completely free. hundred folks in the studio audience with us and we're broadcasting it live stream for you free completely free just text the word 33 789 and we will send you an rsvp and a link and you'll be able to watch the whole puppy free you probably just get on the front page of the website but we make sure we get hooked up get you hooked up text control to 33 789 that's tonight at 7 o'clock Central Time. Hey, folks. There's literally never been a better time to try online grocery.

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Our question of the day comes from Blinds.com. Find out for yourself why they, Blinds.com, are the number one online retailer of custom window coverings. It's an incredible company. They give you free samples, free shipping, new promos all the time. Always use the magic word, the promo code Ramsey. Ken, our question of the day. Kelly writes in from Tennessee. I lost my job during the pandemic and am currently applying for a new job.

I did start a small business during the pandemic as well. When I'm interviewing for a real job, should I mention my small business? On one hand, I could see an employer recognizing that I have a motivated personality. On the other hand, I don't want an employer thinking I might not be focused. Thoughts. Oh, I've got some thoughts. This is really interesting here. You know, I'm going to say there's no right or wrong answer. My gut is I'm not going to bring it up unless it is necessarily, if someone asks me a direct question, hey, do you have a side business? Do you have some other things you do? Or how did you make it through the pandemic? Yeah, honesty is always the best policy.

Don't lie. Yeah, so when asked a direct question or indirect to where you need to tell them this, you tell them. Because if you try to not, you know, discourage them from hiring you and it comes out later, you've lost all trust. So we always are going to be honest but do you need to bring it up not necessarily uh because what it really matters uh what matters to that employer is this will kelly help us win this is what they're trying to determine in the energy that's right that's part of helping us win i mean i don't want to hire somebody to be here five months well that's fair and so you know from that standpoint, then no, I would not mention it.

But I think if you're going to be there a while, it sounds like you might because you've got a side job, a side hustle. Then the day job is what keeps you in the game. So that's how I would play it. Always tell the truth. Yeah. I mean, if we're interviewing here, we're in Nashville. Yeah. The way you get the next country music star's attention is you say, oh, waiter.

Right? the way you get the next country music star's attention is you say, oh, waiter. And so if we're interviewing here and someone says, well, I'm just looking for something to tide me over until I can get my music career going, I don't really want to be your tide over. That's not my plan. As your employer, that doesn't work for me. But I tried the music business and it didn't work out for me, and so I'm moving on to my next career. I still gig every once in a while on the side.

Yeah, I mean, we've got a couple of, we call them like American Idol people that work here, and a couple of people that have been in some big bands that work here and that were known, the drummer for a known thing or whatever, that kind of a thing. But that was their first chapter of their life. They're not here waiting to really live their dream while we pay them money. That does not work for most employers.

It wouldn't work here, I can tell you that. And, you know, we need to mention that if you're in that situation where you've got a side hustle but you need a full-time gig, you've got to give it everything you have, you know, because it's not going to work out for you, and it's going to end up hampering your progress. So you've got to have the mindset of, I have to do this so that I can get to do this, and you give that employer everything you got. Yeah, you've got to leave it all on the field, either way. Open phones to 888-825-5225.

Michael is in Ohio. Hey, Michael, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Hi, Ken. How's it going? Great. How can we help? I got a couple little multi-pronged questions here. I'm actually in the middle of reading Ken's book. I just bought his book and Total Money Makeover. I'm 23, married. I've been married a year

in May. I make $140. My income is kind of unstable coming to pipeline industry. That's kind of taking a hit, as you can tell. I'm looking to transfer. I did two years of school. I'm really unhappy doing what I'm doing. I feel like it put me with

the skill set. I like reading and writing. I've always been interested in law, but I've never, I didn't want to take on debt to go to school. So I'm trying to figure out what's the best approach transferring over. The wife just got a job making 40K. She can work remotely. So our income right now for this year is going to project around 160, 170. I'm going to be closer to 200 next year if it's a good year. But in the meantime, I'm trying to cash flow school.

I've done a lot of stupid, as you like to say. I've got a truck and a camper because pipeline, we travel all across the country, and sometimes there aren't hotels or apartments and stuff like that. And we're, you know, some places a month at a time, some places two. But anyway, that was a stupid buy to not pay cash for that. I note that. So I really guess my number one question is,

is it worth it to make the switch from this industry to that one if that's something I'm really passionate about? Yes. You're 23 and you're miserable? That's a long time to be miserable if you don't switch. So you want to be a lawyer, correct? Yes, sir. Yeah.

What kind of law specifically? Have you figured that out yet? Well, I've been in court law since I have. I've been in this field for three years. Like I said, I did two years of college. I've been in this field for three years. So I do know a lot about it. And I do like the people he i'm

a people person that's one reason i think i dislike my job is uh i sit in a piece of equipment all day and don't really get to have much interaction um and i grew up and i love public speaking and i love stuff like that right so let me give you so like that would be something i listen you're clear about this you're absolutely clear this. You're absolutely clear. This is all about getting qualified. Stage one is getting clear. This is how we get to the dream job. Stage two is get qualified.

You know it's law school. But you want to cash flow your way through it. And let me give you some hope. There are many law schools throughout the country that will give you a full ride based on your LSAT score. Now, this is a fact. This is not something that people talk about a lot. But the reality is, is if you score very high on the LSAT, and you need to look into this to what that number is. I don't have it, so I don't want to give you a wrong number. But it's probably in the like the 85th, 90th percentile, maybe a little bit higher.

But it's in that range. When you score a certain score, there are schools that will offer you a full ride because they are looking for lawyers. They want to put people through the system. And if you're not hung up on a name brand law school, and you know that all you need is the degree to be able to practice law, this is a great approach. I want you to do the research on that because it is, people don't know this, Daveave but i've talked to many lawyers who have gotten a free ride they may not have gone to their state school so let's say you're in tennessee you know there are a lot of big names vanderbilt law degree right but it's going to cost you a fortune whereas you can get that certain score and you go to a smaller law school get the law

degree and you're ready to go so your situation dude is you make a pile of money. Yeah. I mean, you got a $200,000 household income. You're 23 years old. You're a freak. That's awesome. That's absolutely phenomenal. So clean up the mess you made, sell off the stupid stuff or pay it off, pile up some cash, and implement your plan, you know, and let's get the end of school.

But, I mean, making a couple of hundred grand, you can bank enough after you clean up your mess real quickly to cover whatever your LSAT, you know, scholarship that Ken just suggested doesn't cover. That's right. And you pick a school that is net of scholarships that's going to be the least expensive and go get your law degree. And then you go from there. So, yeah, this is brilliant. I would do this. The bad news is you make a lot of – or the good news is you make a lot of money.

The bad news is you make a lot of money doing something that's boring the crud out of you, and you hate it. So just hold your nose a little bit, pile up, you know, stack some Benjamins, baby, and let's get this deal done. He's going to have to be patient. I mean, two years of – I mean, live on nothing, man. Live on nothing and pile up 200 grand in two years and go to law school. You can do that making 200. Oh, you're killing me. You're 23 and you've got to live on 100.

Jeez. Yeah, sell the RV. I mean, this is an easy mess to clean up, and you're in really great shape. And I love the question. Should I switch from something i'm not happy at to do something i'm passionate about yes now make the change make the decision just like this 23 or 83 do it by the way the last time i went to the doctor i did not before i got treated i did not ask for the doctor to go get the diplomas off of the wall in his office nobody

cares what law school you went to nobody i've heard a whole bunch of lawyers in my life i know where two of them went yeah it's just because we had a conversation over lunch and didn't have anything else to talk about you know it's just uh you know way i don't go in and go where'd you go to law school as a part of the interview process it never happens you know buddy filing a divorce he doesn't go he goes can you get rid of the x that's all he wants to know he doesn't know where you went to school. That's all, you know, and let me keep some of my stuff.

That's the whole thing they're asking. That's the whole process. So, hey, good question. Very good question. You're stud, man. I love it. I'm proud of you. Very well done. Well, that about puts this particular hour of the Dave Ramsey Show in the books. James Childs is our producer.

Kelly Daniel is our associate producer and phone screener. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. And we'll be back before you know it. This is James Childs, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. On your smart speaker, you can add our skill by saying, Alexa, open the Ramsey Network skill. From there, you can listen to all our shows. Ask Dave money questions like, how do I invest my money? Or what is the debt snowball? Find out more at DaveRancy.com.

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