The Ramsey Show - App - Thinking You’ll Beat the Banks Makes You Stupid, Not Sophisticated (Hour 3)

Episode Date: October 16, 2019

Investing, Debt, Retirement Tools to get you started:  Debt Calculator: http://bit.ly/2QIoSPV Insurance Coverage Checkup: http://bit.ly/2BrqEuo Complete Guide to Budgeting: http://bit.ly/2QEyonc Interview Guide: http://bit.ly/2BuGnZE Check out other podcasts in the Ramsey Network: http://bit.ly/2JgzaQR 

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. Eric is with us

in Oklahoma City. Hi, Eric. How are you? Good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I'm good.

Thanks for taking my call. So, my wife and I are expecting our first child this year. Yay! Thank you. Yeah, we're looking at investing in a 529 plan. And my question is, you know, after looking at some of the various plans,

do I want the in-state deduction or an out-of-state plan that might perform better and have lower fees? And in Oklahoma, we can deduct up to $20,000 in contributions when we file jointly, which is typically what we do. So I just didn't know if you had any advice on that. It's the deduction on your state income tax, right? Right. Okay. All right.

Well, I don't care which state you're in. Here's the guidelines I'm looking for. There are three major types of 529s. One is prepaid college tuition. I would never do that. Prepaid college tuition I would never do. Okay? Okay.

And number two is a fixed plan, which you put it in and the investments are on autopilot. They start out with the child being young in good mutual funds, and they get more and more conservative automatically as the child gets older. I don't believe in those kinds of plans for anything either. I want you to make decisions about your money and control your money. Number three plan is a 529 that allows you to decide which mutual funds you want the money to be put in, and they don't move unless you move them. And so I would pick one that has that and has a selection of good growth stock mutual funds that you can put money into, and it's just going to sit there.

The fees usually are not that high. I do not know Oklahoma's plans, and I don't know if that 529 is available as an Oklahoma 529. I would not take a bad 529 just to get a tax deduction. Okay. Gotcha. Yeah, I think there are like nine different, like you go in there and there is an age-based option, and then you have different options to where you can go in and select within the state's plan. Yeah, no age-based option, but then you look at it and say,

is there a mutual fund option where you control it, it stays, and the mutual funds have good long track records, good growth stock mutual funds. Why don't you just get in touch with one of our SmartVestor pros there in Oklahoma City there with you. Click SmartVestor at DaveRamsey.com. Put your stuff in. It'll drop down a list of the people we recommend there in that market. There are several that have been with us many years in Oklahoma. Some of them are good friends of mine.

And just sit down with one of them, and they'll walk you right through it. They do it every day. And, you know, that way you're not guessing. I honestly have not opened up the thing and looked at it for Oklahoma in particular. But just as a general concept, let's not do an age-based plan, a life-phase plan, that kind of a thing. Let's definitely don't do prepaid college tuition. Instead, we're just going to put money in something that's going to outperform both of those,

which is a good growth stock mutual fund with a long track record. And that's what I would do. Abigail is in Austin, Texas. Hi, Abigail. How are you? Hi, Dave. I'm great. Thanks so much for taking my call.

Sure. What's up? Okay. So I own three rental properties, and I have mortgages on each of them. That's the only debt that I have, but it's significant debt. On the three properties, it's $332,000 and change. Your personal residence is paid for? Actually, I'm renting currently.

Why? Well, I moved in with my boyfriend, and're renting and it has to do with, well, we're going to be, it's only going to be temporary that we're staying here and then we're going to go travel in an RV. And so it doesn't make sense for us to own a home right now. Okay. So, actually, I used to live in one side. I own three duplexes, and I used to live in one side. Okay, so if you're traveling in an RV all over the nation, how are you going to manage rental properties in Austin, Texas?

Well, I actually own a residential property management company, and so I have all of that set up. I actually travel a fair amount now, and it all works out. So you have employees? Yes. And services, hired companies that help with the maintenance or other things. And manage other people's properties? Yes, and my own.

Okay. All right. I'm back with you now. Okay? Okay. So one of the properties is owned in a self-directed IRA. So I'm aware that I can only pay that down to the extent that I have rental income from it. And then one of them I actually own 75% of.

A friend owns 25%, so I don't totally control that. And then one of the duplexes I do. So, as I said, I have $332,000 in debt. I'm not full of anxiety over that debt, and yet, you know, I read the Total Money Makeover recently, very inspired by it, and I realized that you might suggest something different than what I'm doing right now, and I would love to know. I would want to have some kind of an accelerated process on all three to get them paid as fast as possible. I mean, the whole thing is just, there's nothing on fire here. There's not an emergency.

There's nothing here that scares me to death. I assume they're cash flowing. But, you know, what are these properties worth? If you owe $332, what's the total value of the three? The total value is about $880,000. Okay, so you've got a half million dollars in equity, give or take. If I found $550,000, that's pretty strong. So they're probably cash flowing pretty good.

I mean, I would want to be clearing up the debts out of the cash flows as soon as possible and any other money you've got, and I would probably just snowball them. The other thing I'd want to do is get that partner out of that other deal just to clean up your life and put yourself in a position that you own all three of these properties free and clear someday soon. And so how can I get there? What's the process I can use to get there? And so the one that's not in the IRA and doesn't have the partner, I would probably start there and knock him out. The other one I'd be talking to that partner, what can I do to buy you out

or what can we do to get out of this deal? Maybe that one sells and you use the equity from it to pay off the other one or something. I don't know. But I'm just going to start to say, you know, three, four, five years, I want to have a plan for these things to start to be debt-free. I don't want to just keep the mortgages forever. It's not a plan. So it's nothing on fire, but let's have a very intentional, methodical process in place.

This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Do you know who is a prime target for identity theft? Your children. Kids have no debts or credit history. Their personal information is just as easy to get, but the theft could go completely undetected for years. Every day all over the country, young adults are starting down their own path in life by opening a bank account or renting their first apartment, only to find out that they somehow already have credit card debt, a mortgage, or even a criminal record. It's devastating, but it can be fixed

when you have an ID theft protection plan from Zander Insurance. They monitor all personal info for the entire family, and they take over all the work if you become a victim. Best of all, your kids are covered for free on their family plan. Call them at 800-356-4282 or visit zander.com. It's just the smarter, more affordable way to protect your entire family. And it's the only plan I provide to my team. Zander.com or 800-356-4282. This is the show where we talk about money in a way everyone can understand it and in a way that applies to everyone.

The danger of these simple concepts is those of you that view yourself as intellectuals, those of you that view yourself as sophisticated, sometimes you look at something that's simple and you don't understand how profound it is. Like, the borrower is slave to the lender. Oh, but I use credit cards to get my miles. You actually think you're going to take on a multi-billion dollar company

who studies your behavior more than you study your behavior and come out on the right end of this stick? That doesn't make you sophisticated. That makes you blatantly stupid. Think about it. Did you know the credit card is the most aggressively marketed product in the history of humankind? Nothing has been sold to anyone in any culture in any kind of a volume close to the credit card, no product line or service has had anywhere near as much money spent on marketing and sophistication to sell it to you.

Hundreds of millions of dollars a year is spent to sell you this product. And then you're so stupid that you think you're going to get away with using it for free. If you do, it's going to be a short-term thing. Or if you think you do, you left out some of the variables. Example. When you spend using cash, it activates the pain centers of your brain. You have an ouchie moment when you hand over Uncle Benjamin Franklin. Dad, come, I just bought dinner.

When you lay Uncle Benjamin Franklin in that black plastic tray known as his coffin, because he's going away and he's not coming back, you put him inside that little Visa or American Express fold-over vinyl thing that the server brings you, and you lay Uncle Benjamin Franklin in there. You have a moment with Uncle Ben. Uncle Ben, I'll never see you again. You know this is happening. When you pay with plastic and I interview you 24 hours later, you don't know what the total was on the bill. You can't tell me what you spent.

You don't know what you spent at the gas pump because you stuck a card in it, you pumped the gas, and you walked away. You can't tell me what your gas bill was. In the days that we used to walk into the market and lay money down on the counter and then they would give you change because you didn't round it off when you were putting your gas in, we knew exactly what we spent on gas in those days today you don't even know what your gas is you don't know i use a debit card i can't tell you

what mine was can i tell you what it cost to fill up my truck the other day i don't know i didn't notice just stuck the card in put the gas in drove away I'm just like you. Cash activates the pain centers of the brain. There's two or three things that activate memory. Memory is activated primarily by pain, fear, heavy emotion of some kind. Positive, pleasurable emotion will activate memory. That's why you smell something and you remember a girl you dated in high school. Smell activates that memory. That's what happens.

And so that's the process. So here's the thing. If you can't remember it, it means the pain centers of your brain were not activated. And when we do surveys with what you spent on that meal, it means the pain centers of your brain were not activated. And when we do surveys with what you spent on that meal, as you walk out of the door of the restaurant, you can't tell me what the total was. Oh, it was around $25. Around $52.

I don't know, $56, $57. I don't know. I don't even remember. I think I left the tip. Left the big tip because I've been drinking. You know, now you really can't remember anything, right? So this is how people handle their money. And yet you tell me you're going to beat the credit card company.

You spend 12% to 18% more on average when you use plastic than when you use cash. That's what all the studies show us because you don't feel the pain. And the world's worst place is the grocery store. They are the best marketers on the planet. The best merchandisers on the planet is a grocery store man they know how to put the food at the right place old-fashioned example the easiest example is the bread and the milks at the back right because everybody that walks in a grocery store is buying bread or milk and they have to go through the full length of the store and have every opportunity to impulse on some kind of jar of peanut butter and jelly mixed together pre-mixed for you i don't know what you're imposing on but there's something getting your attention it must be those new peach

cheerios i heard about today and guess what all the stuff is at the eye level they get your attention and they pay for the shelf position as you walk to the back to get your bread and milk, and you can't walk out without spending money. The aisles are designed for you to buy stuff, and when you use plastic at the grocery store, you have no idea what your grocery bill is, and you spend more. You spend more on clothing. Oh, yeah, throw in that accessory. Oh, yeah.

You'll pick up other people's tab at the restaurant. I'll buy you dinner tonight. Not thinking anything about it, just drop 50 bucks. Never think a thing about it. Now, I'm not saying you shouldn't be generous. I'm not saying you shouldn't accessorize, and I'm not saying you shouldn't enjoy some purchases at the grocery store. I'm just saying you ought to do it on purpose.

And if you think that credit card use, even if you're paying it off every month, costs you zero, then you are a very naive individual that has been influenced by an industry that has spent more to influence you than any other industry in the history of the world. That should give you pause. That should give you pause. That should give you pause. If anybody else was selling you that hard on anything, your shields would go up. But for some reason, when it's credit cards, we're like,

oh, no, Dave, I have this figured out. I'm 26, and I've got this figured out. I'm 26, and I've got this figured out. I'm 26 years old. I make $42,000 a year, but I'm going to beat up on old Discover cars. They don't know anything. I've got them beat. I'm getting those Discover points, not costing me a thing. You know how stupid that makes you sound when you say stuff like that?

I'm making all my money on my airline miles. You know, I've met with thousands of millionaires. I've never met a millionaire who said, Dave, you know, I making all my money on my airline miles. You know, I've met with thousands of millionaires. I've never met a millionaire. I said, Dave, you know, I made all my money on my airline miles. Dave, my breakthrough was my Discover Points. I'll pay mine off every month, Dave. I'm beating up on the credit card company. I'm getting the use of their money, wink, wink.

Millionaires just don't say stuff like that. Now, some of them use a credit card. They do pay it off every month but i gotta tell you their lifestyles are so conservative beside you know when i set them up next to you middle class people are spending everything you make and trying to convince me that i'm a troglodyte because i don't use credit cards well i'm not broke anymore this is a multi-millionaire troglodyte you're listening to. Why? Because I started understanding that behavior affects your ability to build wealth more than all your little math

tricks you think you see all the variables on. The borrower is slave to the lender. It doesn't say except airline miles. The borrower is slave to the lender. It doesn't say except discover points. The borrower is slave to the lender. It doesn't say except I got 0% interest on my new car, which lost $7,000 when I drove it off the lot. So it's not really 0%, is it? How stupid are we? I mean, you're going to hand me a nickel in front of me while you're picking a $100 bill out of my back pocket and call me smart. Think, people. Think. Think.

If someone's shoveling stuff down your throat at this rate, to the rate of hundreds of millions of dollars a year, and their ability to sell and to market to you is beyond any other sophistication of any other marketing program. There must be money in it. Follow the money. Follow the money. So I don't have any credit cards. I have two debit cards.

You can do what you want, but it's working for me. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Thanks for being with us, America. This is your show. Angie is with us in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi, Angie. How are you? I'm good.

Thank you. Thank you for taking my call and giving me the opportunity to ask you a question. My question is, we are on baby step three, and the last thing we have for our debt is our house, and I have a few lingering old hospital bills. Then you're not on baby step three. Well, that's technically no. I'm trying to work that out, though. My husband tells me that you say we should only pay $0.25 per dollar.

And I'm trying to work with the debtors to pay them. I only have one of them who are willing to drop it at all. And they're willing to take off 40%. And I'm only looking at a total of about $3,800. Okay. So I don't know if we should do that. My husband tells me, no, that you say that we should be able to work it out with them to get it $0.25 per dollar.

And I have been working with them back and forth. How old are the debts? They're about four years old. Are you paying payments on them? No. We only literally just started getting our, like, bills and life together within the last year. Good for you. Okay, all right.

$3,800, and what's your household income? Monthly, it's about $6,500, and our allowances that we pay out in food and bills and things like that is about $3,700. Gotcha, okay. I would take the 40% one. How big of one is that? That one is a total of about $2,000. Okay, so that gets half of it gone, right? Yes.

Yeah, and then just get in writing the actual balance on the others and just pay them. Well, see, that was going to be my other question. They refuse to do that. Then they get no money. Then they get no money. Okay. Because they're playing you and they're going to come back for more late fees and interest on top of what they what you think

you owe i gotcha so okay so that was the debate me and my husband were having he said no if he wants to if he wants to get all involved in this it probably would be helpful okay because i want him to get nasty with them okay you have got to be kidding me do you idiots want money or not if you want money i'm standing here with money but i have to have it in writing or i'm not giving you a dime because i think you're lying because your mouth is moving okay because literally this literally this is what the guy tells me. He goes, well, we do not send out letters. We do not send out emails. We don't care if you pay your bill or not because it's on your credit.

It's your debt. And I'm thinking, okay, well, consciously I feel bad owing this money. You know, and like I said, we've changed everything. You know what, I don't care if I pay it either. Let me talk to your supervisor because you're too stupid to talk to. Okay. This is how, I mean, you're not dealing with intelligent life. You're talking to a collector who just told you he doesn't care if you pay your bill.

Horse crap. Yeah, that's exactly what he told me. You know, that's just dumb. And just say it. You just that that's a dumb but statement do you think i'm gonna fall for that let me talk to your supervisor you're too stupid to work this out a simple email from one of you morons and i will send you a check and you'll have this cleared up and i'll have it cleared up isn't it your job to collect a bill are you too stupid and trifling to do your job you i'm sorry people

that are listening out there that are nice people they don't understand but you've not been dealing with intelligent life the people you're talking to his parents are cousins right well obviously but hey thank you on that and i want to say one more thing and that other thing is that literally in the last year that we've started doing this, like things have done such a 160-degree turnaround for us. Love it. Everything, like, we just, we appreciate the program, and it's working so well for us. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Listen, look at this conversation as a game. So the stuff that I'm doing right there, it's psychological warfare. They're just messing with you. And here's the problem. If you send them a $250 check on a four-year-old medical bill that you think is 250 they're going to send you a bill for another 208 in late fees okay if you don't have it in writing that this is the actual balance gotcha okay so i will do that and not pay them until i get a

letter yeah and just you know when and call them once a month and say, are you idiots ready for money? Okay. You know, just start the conversation that way. Because everybody I've talked to over there is a fool so far. Are you a fool? You work there. You must be a fool because everybody else that works there is a fool.

So just mess with them because that's what they're doing with you, and I'm telling you, they're playing you, and you will pull the thread on this sweater forever if you don't get it in writing and tie them down. You can tell they're lying if their mouth is moving. Daniel is with us in Dallas. Hi, Daniel. How are you?

I'm good, sir. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up? Hey, so my wife and I are somewhere in between two days to two weeks from Friday being out of Baby Step 2. Yay! Yeah, so we'll call back and do our screen then. So I'll be really excited just calling then.

So my question is, we've been really going gazelle intense. We paid off about, once we're done, we'll be at about $67 thousand dollars in about two and a half years way to go man congratulations yeah it's been really good um and then i guess my question is we both have worked in second jobs so when is when does dave ramsey give permission for us to rest and quit our second job but dude you're an adult and now you're a successful adult you You get to decide things, okay? You don't need Dave Ramsey's permission to do squat. Well, I mean, your permission has worked really well for us. I figured I'd ask one more time.

Yeah, I mean, you guys have been working 80 hours, 90 hours a week, haven't you? You know, something like that. I mean, she's probably been working a little bit more. She gets overtime. I'm a city worker and get comp time, so I don't get that benefit. But we've probably been working about 50, 60 hours a week each of us, something like that. Listen, it's a math thing, right?

When the debt is gone and you're working baby step three, how fast do you want to build your emergency fund? For sure you quit the second jobs after baby step three. Yes. A hundred percent. Okay. The only question is how fast do you want to build baby step three? If you want to build it a little bit slower because you quit the second jobs, ding, ding.

Go ahead. Yeah. It probably only makes about a month difference. Okay. So, I mean, we're looking probably about like four months to build up our baby steps, maybe with the check out. And you've been going like a crazy people for two and a half years, and you got your debt paid off. So if you want to take an extra month to build that, oh, well, that's fine. Awesome.

Or if you get close and she can pick up some OT that last month and go after it again for a little bit. I mean, the good news is OT, it's not like you have to quit the job. You just say, I don't want OT or I do want it. Yeah, she loves working the overtime. The second job is the thing that's like, you know, we're ready to start spending time with the family a little bit more. It's me and her, but, you know, we want to take advantage of it. Yeah, I mean, that could be your reward.

That could be part of your debt-free celebration. You know, I quit. Yes, yes. But it's just, you're just, you make the adult decision. You're making the, how quick does it, if it makes a one-month difference, I'm with you, I'd probably quit. I'm kind of right there. So, you know, that's the deal.

Hey, thanks for the call. Open phones at 888-825-5225. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. We're glad you're with us. Dave, I've got a small 401k from a past job. What should I do with it? Well, you always roll a 401k when you leave your job to the next job. I'm sorry.

What am I thinking? My brain's not working. Okay, when you leave your work, you always take your retirement with you if you can and roll it direct transfer into an IRA. And we always select four types of growth stock mutual funds, growth, growth in income, aggressive growth, and international. That's the process. So get in touch with SmartVestor Pro and roll it over to a good mutual fund into a direct transfer IRA, a traditional IRA, not a Roth. There's no taxes on that at all. Later, you can convert that to a Roth if you would like to.

This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you. Our scripture today, Psalm 37, 4, Delight yourself in the Lord, and He will give you the desires of your heart. Julius Irving said, goals determine what you're going to be. Sherry is with us in Phoenix. Hi, Sherry. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, I had a quick question for you. My husband and I, we started your program about a month ago,

and we are actually kind of to the point, I've talked to credit card companies, we're in a good $70,000 in debt, mostly because we opened up a new business and we invested the money. But now we're to the point to where we can't even make our four walls. And we don't want to claim bankruptcy. Why can't you make your four walls? Has your income gone down? It has gone down. He used to work. We haven't been used to the money that he's been getting paid,

mostly because he was having to work out of town a lot. He was in Alaska for like four months, and we had two children. So for him to be able to be home more, we had to take a pay cut. And that's when we decided to invest in this business. So that's why the paychecks have gone completely down. Okay, so he has a side business? He does, yes. What is his side business? It is a, we invested in flip housing. In a what?

What'd you say? Like flipping houses. You're broke and you decided to start flipping houses yes yes so do you have houses um we do not we've been um trying the best that we can good to try to find one good no that's absolutely that this is a good way to go bankrupt for sure yeah no you should not be flipping houses when you are broke and $70,000 in debt and can't even make your bills. So what is his day job? His day job is he does X-raying on pipelines.

So it's a good job. It's not a good job. It doesn't pay your household bills. What is his income? It fluctuates. What's his income a year? What's his income a year? $80,000.

$80,000? You can't live on $80,000 a year. Yeah. Why? Well. How much is your rent? We actually have a rental in Colorado, and we do have a house here in Phoenix. Okay, sell the rental in Colorado.

That's what, yeah, that's what I've thought. Yesterday. About doing. Okay. And what is it worth? It is worth, I believe, $230. And what do you owe on it? We owe $160.

Oh, good. That'll pay off a bunch of the credit card debt. Sell that tomorrow. If you don't have that on the market by Monday, I'm going to come to Phoenix and kick your butt. Okay. Okay. This is ridiculous. What is your current home worth?

Our current home is worth $225,000. What do you owe on it? We owe probably about $215,000. Okay. And what is your income? I stay home. How many kids? We have two children.

There is one thing that I did want to ask you about. We are locked into, we're wanting to have a third child, but we have to do IVF. I'm sorry? And we are locked IVF. Oh, okay. And we're locked into doing that because we made our deposit. If we don't go through with it, we will lose that deposit. How much was your deposit?

It was $500. And what's the follow-through? $15,000? The follow-through? $15,000? The follow-through is $4,800. $4,800. Okay. Yes. All right.

And you have $70,000 in debt, and you have a house in Colorado. What do you owe on your cars? Our cars, his is paid off. Mine is a forerunner. Our payments are like $500 a month, which I've told him to get rid of it. Sell it. Okay, good. So we're selling the car, we're selling the house, we're going to finish the IVF.

We're going to pay cash for it. And he's going to pick up an extra job. I'm sorry he's not going to see his children. He's getting ready to lose everything. This is what you do when you're up against the wall. You go to work. Yeah. A lot.

It's not a lifetime sentence, but for the next two years, he needs to be working 80 hours a week. And get this dadgum family out of the ditch. Yeah. And no, you're not flipping any houses. Good Lord. Yeah, yeah. And you paid $3,000 to go to that weekend class crap, didn't you? We paid $70,000. $1,000?

Well, in total, we got asked to be part of the next level. So we had to invest more money into that. What's the next level of getting screwed? What? Exactly. I know. I know. Unbelievable.

Oh, God. And I wasn't sure. I tried talking to credit card companies because, of course, I don't want to. Listen, you need to list out your budget. I don't give a crap about your credit cards. Just let them sit there. If they scream and your credit gets messed up, I don't care. Right now, you need to list your debt your food lights and water

pay your house payment pay your car payment until you get it sold you have enough coming in to do that you were wrong you can meet your four walls okay eighty thousand dollars a year will do that plus he's got three extra jobs now i just gave them to him real jobs that pay money not that are getting not that are ripping him off. You should not have to pay money to make money in this case. You go get a job making money. I don't care if you're delivering pizza. But if he can get OT on his current job, take all the OT because he's probably worth more there than he is anywhere else.

Exactly. Or side gigs in that industry because apparently Alaska and now he's still doing x-ray, so he's a pipeline guy. He probably has some pretty specialized skills that are pretty valuable if we put him to work right. And let's go earn some money and clean this mess up. The credit cards can sit. I don't want them to, but they're the last thing on the list to pay here. Get rid of the car.

Get rid of the house in Colorado immediately. Immediately. And then all you've got to do is buy food, lights, and water, pay your house payment. You can do that. That's your four walls. Four walls are necessities. Everything else after that might be in trouble for a while.

But I don't think it is. I think you can probably pay it all if you get on a really, really tight budget, beans and rice, rice and beans, and know you're not going on vacation not anytime soon and no you're not going to see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working there oh and by the way anything you can do to pick up some extra income while you're at home with these kids would be awesome thousand dollars a month changes this formula pretty dramatically um i don't care if you're watching somebody else's kid that wouldn't be a bad thing for a little while. Something along those lines, anything. I don't care. If you've got some kind of specialized training yourself and skills, you can bring it in home and

do that two or three hours a day. And you are a home economist. You are a coupon queen. You are a consignment sale lady, and you're cooking from scratch because it's healthier and a whole lot cheaper. And if you're going to be home, that's the kind of stuff you're going to be doing and i don't mind you being home i'm with you on the on the goal of that and i'm with you on the goal of the next baby i'm not getting any issue with that um but don't put any down any more deposits if this round of ivf doesn't work until we get this household out of a ditch. The last thing you need is the stress around all this stuff going on and then add to that the stress of trying to have another child. That just puts you, man, bless your heart, that's a mess.

But you guys are going to have to take some action here that's wise and that is long-term thinking because you've made several unwise decisions so far. And you're going to have to offset that and turn it around. But that's what's going on here. You don't have a four walls problem. You can eat, you can pay your lights and water, and you can pay your house payment. And you can pay your car payment until you get it sold.

You can pay, and that's the deal. So, you know, it just doesn't make sense. You can do your four walls. That's the way to go. So thank you for the call. That puts this hour of The Dave Ramsey Show in the books. Our thanks to James Childs, our producer, Blake Thompson, our chief production officer, and Kelly Daniel, our associate producer and phone screener.

I am Dave Ramsey, your host. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. If you would like to do your Debris Scream live on the show, make sure you visit DaveRamsey.com slash show and register. We would love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story.