The Ramsey Show - App - This Is a Tangled Web! (Hour 2)

Episode Date: November 13, 2023

Девочка-пай Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined by the Dr. John Deloney, and we are here for you, America. The number to call is 888-825-5225. Emily's going to kick us off in Reno. Emily, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi, thank you. What's going on?

So I've been listening to you guys for a couple months now, and I've eventually talked to my husband about it. He was a little bit reluctant at first, but now he's on board. Um, we don't have any credit card debt, which is great. Um, but we do have two truck truck loans and our house. Um, and what we're thinking about doing and he's on board with, but we're not sure if it's the right move is to take what we have in our largest retirement account and pay off the truck loans, um, which are average, uh, kind of large. And then that would free up, of course, a lot of our income to either put toward the house or to rebuild the retirement account, which we feel like we could do fairly quickly. So I just wanted to get your guys' opinion and take on that. Well, first of all, I love that you guys are aligned on wanting to get out of debt. The goal is great. The method is terrible of robbing our retirement accounts to achieve this.

So let's talk about what's left on these loans. The larger one is around $37,000, and then the smaller one is a little over $20,000. Okay. And what's your household income? Together, we make about $150 a year. Good. Okay. Awesome income. So let's look at it this way. If retirement accounts were not an option to rob, which, by the way, if you take a withdrawal against that, you sound young.

I'm guessing you're not 60. No, but we're not super young. He's 43, and I'm 41. You're really young. According to the government, you are not old enough to be retired. You're not a retired person. We're young, but yeah, that's why we're nervous about, you know, that's why I called is because it sounds like a good idea, but I'm a little nervous about...

Do you know what it's going to do to you guys? Not only with taxes and penalties, but also robbing from your potential future growth on that money against a depreciating asset and then we've thought we've thought about you know because the the company we're with allows you to like basically take a loan against yourself but yeah which we don't want to do which we didn't want to do, which we didn't want to do. Yeah, we didn't want to do. Okay. How about this? If you're that desperate to get out of debt, why not sell the trucks?

Uh, well, we need them. Hold on, hold on, hold on. You need a $40,000 truck. For what? You guys are ruthless. Um, hold on, hold on. I live out in the country. I live on some acreage.

I do need a truck. I'm an avid hunter, and I have stuff all over my property. And I'm not any better. We are avid outdoors people. We have a camper that's bought and paid for, no payment. So we need the truck to pull it. And then the other one is just the smaller truck, which my husband uses, drives it all the time. I guess we're not desperate to pay it off.

I mean, we do okay. You're desperate enough to rob your retirement at 30% with interest in penalties. Not to mention lost future earnings for a car that will go down in value every year. Okay. Well, I guess the reason that got me thinking about that is because I listen to you guys all the time and I hear like Dave always talking about like go scorched earth, like don't, you know, like put everything into getting debt free so yeah but he also says never rob your retirement account to pay off debt or yeah you don't go scorched earth

in like scorched earth means we're going to sacrifice and use our future income and sell everything we can in order to get out of debt it can also mean we're going to sell the trucks to get out of debt but if that's not an, I pinned you into that corner to say, well, the other option is let's use this amazing $150,000 income to pay off $57,000 in debt. Yeah. But guess what? That's going to take a different kind of sacrifice.

That means we're not eating out. It means we're going to pause all investing as we attack this debt. Which that was my next question because because we, just in the last, like, year, we really ramped up our thinking for the future. So we've always put into our 401ks and retirements, but just this last year, we upped our percentage to 8% for both of us, plus our employer matching. And then we opened an ira that we put a couple hundred a month in uh and what what what is your what is your apr on your trucks what's your interest on your truck oh i think well the the 20 that we got them in the last couple years when interest rates have been high with inflation so i think they're around like 13 nothing says i'm thinking about our future like taking out a 37 000 loan at 13

percent interest it trying to earn it in a volatile 10 market you see what i'm saying yeah so your math doesn't even work emily we're having fun with you we're not trying to just rag on you i'm trying to get you to the point where you're willing to go, you're right. Our plan is not working. Trying to invest while taking on debt, while having the camper debt-free, but then we need a $40,000 loan to run the camper. We didn't think this through. And so the great news is this is a very solvable problem. So easy to solve. Okay. But there's only two solutions. You either sell the trucks or you pay them off very quickly with future income by selling stuff, getting on a budget, cutting expenses, increasing income. That's it. No life hacks, no retirement robbing. That's it. Do you guys, what do you think about, because I know, well, I think I know in the baby steps that I read that you don't invest. I would pause every dollar. Add up what it would be

to pause all retirement. My guess is it's going to be close to a thousand bucks a month, if not more. Well, and here's why that's important in your situation. Yeah. You having a paid for camper and a $40,000 loan against the truck that makes the camper usable and you choosing to pause your investing while you're quote unquote getting serious about your future, you will see how insane what you're doing is. Because you're going to say, there's no way I want to pause investing. We have a match and everything. And then the next logical question will be, what if we sold this camper and paid this truck off? What if we sold this camper and this truck and everything in our life changes literally in a weekend?

All of it. And then we can breathe. And then we can say, what if, how often do we have actually used this camper? What if we used a tent? What if we went to KOAs? What if we built this thing back up? Because you said at the beginning of the call,

we feel confident we could just refill our emergency. I mean, our retirement really quick. Cool. Just use that same energy and buy yourself another camper down the road. In a few years, if we enter into a recession, there's gonna be a lot of campers on the market. You could sell yours right now while the going's good. And you're also going to double your investing if you follow our plan. You're going to go from 8% to 15% of household income.

You're going to build extreme wealth by doing that. And when you spend cash on that next camper and that next truck, you're going to go from 8% to 15% of household income. You're going to build extreme wealth by doing that. And when you spend cash on that next camper and that next truck, you're going to spend it differently because it's your own money. And you might be buying a $20,000 truck because it hurts too much to let go of $40,000 in cash that could be working for you instead of against you. So that was a fun time beating up on Emily, but it's because we love Emily. We want her to win with money. And sometimes that means tough love and getting rid of crap and sacrificing. doctor are longer, and it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy.

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ramseysolutions.com slash store, and we'll send it to you in January when the book is out. Mike joins us in Washington, D.C. Up next, Mike, welcome to the show. Hey, guys, thanks. Hope you're doing well today. Absolutely. What's going on with you? Well, I have an 88-year-old mother who's getting ready to run out of money, like really run out of money. But let me give you a background here. My dad passed away 15 years ago, and he left her the 15-acre property that they were living in. And she stayed there. The house is now, let's say, neglected, certainly dated, needs some work. It's about 45 minutes away from me and where my brother lived. But in 2020, she had a little

issue. She's been having some medical issues. She nearly burned the house down, had some issues like that. So my brother-in-law and his wife convinced her to live in a nearby retirement home. And I wasn't included in that process. She didn't want to move, but she agreed. And she's been there since August of 2021 and been paying the mortgage on the house. And she'd been paying for the retirement home. And that's a burn rate of about $10,000 a month. I don't know all of her finances. I ask her questions and she gets irritated. My brother's kind of handling that, but without a power of attorney or anything,

I basically have to steal some of her mail and look at it, figure it out. And what I got down to is in her family trust, all the money my dad left and her parents left her and everything, there's about $3,000 in cash left in that and about maybe $30,000 in stocks. And I think about $15,000 in a checking account.

That's it. Have you not called your brother and just said, what in the world do you do? How does that conversation go? It usually goes with, I'm working on it. He wants to make sure the house is perfect before it sells, which it will never happen. That's one thing.

I've asked what's going on with the finances. I get back to you uh oh there's a plan i'll tell you but i've never been told how dude i'm being honest like i've got i've got a brother he's a he's got such he's a person of such impeccable character this wouldn't this would never apply but i would i would be really close if i were you to, in fact, not really close. I would probably draft a letter from an attorney. Because A, something sounds fishy here. B, I don't care what plan your brother has. Your mother's about to lose everything.

Yeah. Everything. It's time to stop waiting for a plan. One of the problems here, and I'm sure it's something you've probably heard of, she's come out and said in the past she likes him better. She, as a person and everything else. So that aside, every time I ask about something, oh, I trust him.

I used to take her to the doctor. I'd take her shopping. I don't even get that anymore. So I'm so far out of the loop on this because I think ultimately I'm the realist and I'm the one who has to, I'm the one who tells her what she needs, and he's the one who does what she wants. And that's part of the problem why this house is sitting on the market for— it's not even on the market for two years.

It hasn't even been on the market yet in two years. But, yeah, it's— Do you think he has some kind of vested interest where he's driving this wedge between you guys on purpose and he stands to gain something? No, I think he's pretty much kind of like just a dum-dum. And he has always had issues, OCD-type issues, but also just can't make a decision, those sorts of things. He's the older brother. I'm the younger brother. Yeah, but nobody's that dumb to where there's $240,000 in an account, and two years later, at a burn rate of $10,000 a month, there's three. Everybody knows this train stops next month.

Yeah, and actually, when it stops, it's going to park itself in his house. Yeah. Now, she says she's going to get a camper and take her cat and of course she says that that's not happening of course of course so here's the deal it sounds like there's two things one is there's the money aspect of it but i'm more interested in you are watching your mom a woman you love, and who loved you, slowly peel away and head in a direction that you don't believe is healthy. And I think what you've just played out for us, it's not healthy. And you're heartbroken.

Yeah, there's really, it's kind of the one reason I call it kind of a precautionary tale for others who you think you have a plan. Her plan was to die. I know that's a fact. She planned to die at that house, and all this would be taken care of. Of course, of course. And I think she's still counting on that now. Like, oh, it's not going to be a problem because I'll be dead, and it's going to go away.

What if she lives another decade? Well, yeah, she says she's going to live to be 100. And then, on the other hand, you know. Well, do some quick math with her and show her that she's out of money in a year. I'm more worried that there's way more money in this trust and your brother's done something nefarious with it. He's either so – listen to the options here. He is so incredibly incompetent that his incompetence is so bad

his mother's going to end up homeless, or he's had some financial incentive to keep you out of the books? Well, she refinanced this house 10 years ago. Now, she's been in it for 30, so she would have paid it off. My dad had sold our old house when they moved out to this other place. So there's $300,000 that was put into it, into a $500,000 house. It would have been paid off. Somebody somewhere about 10 years ago got her to refinance. And about 10 years ago, my brother was $20,000 in debt and then suddenly bought a house. So I'm kind of thinking that's where that money went, but nobody wants to tell me. And that's why she gets, and he won't answer the questions.

And I think they refinanced. She pulled out the equity. Here's the deal, man. You can wipe your hands of this and grieve like bloody hell your mom. Yeah. And your relationship, and it shouldn't be this way, and you wish you were still one of her boys and she has chosen the other one she's told you i choose him over you and i cannot wrap

my head around how devastating that would be if my mom did that no and it's actually um more than devastating it's actually a relief okay now i know i i know why things are happening the way they are okay it might be a relief in the short term but but you're going to have to grieve that. Or the second thing is you get an attorney and demand financial accounting. And quite honestly, you're going to have to sue your brother probably. And if she made him the heir of this stuff, your suit probably won't even matter. Yeah, he's the executor, but not the power of attorney. Who's the power of this stuff your suit probably won't even matter yeah he's the executor but not the power of attorney who's the power of attorney nobody she she still retains everything okay well this is bordering on elder financial abuse and so that makes me think we need to get

some third parties involved to look into this before we continue to destroy her life yeah those are the words I was looking for, because that's what I was thinking, but you've kind of... I mean, I'm no lawyer, but I would contact one immediately and just explain the situation. And here's what's hard. She might talk to an attorney and say,

I have directed my oldest son to do every single thing I want. And when I run out of money, I'm going to move in with him. Or I'll move back into my magic home. Both of those are options on the table for her. Uh-huh. She said so. The bottom line is an 88-year-old woman should not have $10,000 in expenses every single month. No. Especially with a burn rate, with a finish line coming up. Which tells me her expenses aren't 10. That money is going somewhere and it sounds like it's going partially to your brother so i'm sorry you're dealing with this mike this is a a tangled web of just broken relationships and financial abuse and i hope you find some resolution even if it's not the one you're looking for this is the ramsey show

this is the ramsey show i'm george Camel, joined by Dr. John Deloney. The number to call is 888-825-5225. Chris joins us in Seattle, Washington. Chris, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hey, thanks for taking my call. I had a question. I found Dave Layton live, so I'm following. I'm just now getting started with his baby steps and I'm on baby step number two. Um, I got about 8,000 credit card and about 57 in personal loans. Um, I have a 401k loan aside those two, and I'm trying everything in me says to go against what Dave says on the 401k loan because it's the interest I'm would receive back and I'm it falls in between some of these

loans as in the you know monetary value so I'm curious if that should be paid off in that order which is what I'm thinking against, which I'm guessing you guys will probably say to do because of the interest. I'm just curious on your guys' I don't know. At what point did you think this is about the interest? Because it seems like there was a series of decisions made that has left you in a place where you're feeling stressed out and anxious, overwhelmed by a pile of debt. So I'm far less concerned about the interest and more concerned about how do we get Chris back to some financial foundation where he doesn't owe anyone anything. Right.

So what's the balance of the 401k loan? It started at six. It's about 5,000 now. Okay. And what other debt do you have? You have the credit card, personal loans, 401k loan? And I have a deficiency balance from a vehicle. So I'll give a guess on the backstory. I found Dave a few months ago and I got on a thing. I stopped all 401k investment, which was really hard for me because of the match. But you took a loan against your 401k. Right. So we can't get too excited about the free money when we just robbed ourselves of it.

Right. And so I got rid of a vehicle that was very expensive. You already did the voluntary repo? It's done? Okay, what's the deficiency balance on that? 33 and some change. Good gosh. Was it an airplane car?

What was it? It was a brand new diesel truck. Okay. What are you driving now? It's a little Isuzu car beater. Paid for? Worth about $1,500, yeah.

Good. Hey, hold on, hold on. How old are you, Chris? Real quick. George, then get back. How old are you, Chris? I'm 37. All right.

I keep hearing some shame in your voice. Brother, let it ride. I'm freaking proud of you. Well, I'm shamed or I'm embarrassed because of the amount of money I do make. Hold on, hold on. Dude, we all learn. We all learn. And George and I talk to six-figure broke people all the time.

And we talk to millionaire teachers all the time. So, dude, you are not dumb. You're not an idiot. You're clearly good at what you do professionally. You probably just did what everyone in your life told you to do, what the next right smart move was. So stop with the shame, man. I'm proud of you. Listen, you've lived for this many years thinking this was the path and you now have a new path. Cool. I'm going to hold my head up high.

I'm going to take this new path. I'm not going to spend my time on this new path just beating myself up for being on the old path. We're on the new one now, man. We don't hit each other on this path. We just solve problems. Okay. That's number one. Number two, here's the key that I want you to digest before you go any further on this plan, because it's going to hold you up if you don't. The way you've done it for 37 years hasn't worked. Will you try something new? Right. Yes. And that was sort of my thinking when i quit the 401k and um you know investing it was really hard for me because i'm like that money all i could see was that money but um but it hasn't worked right it's same with when you when you approach george with the with interest that model hasn't worked not just for you for most of america doesn't work doesn't work

and george has the keys to your freedom right here but i want you to change your psychology you're you're done right you're on a new path sweet we're so glad that you're in this cult with us and the way you did it the old way it didn't work let's say we're gonna do a new one all in is that cool yep all right all right what's your total monthly payments on all of this debt? It's about $2,000. Okay. Now, what's your income? It'll be $150,000 this year, but it's going to drop to $135,000 next year because they want us to have a more work-life balance, so they're cutting some overtime. Okay, well, you can go pick up a

side hustle and keep it at $150,000 or even higher, right? Sounds like you just freed up some time to work. That is with my side hustle. My base salary is $127,000, and then I'm about $10,000, $11,000 on the side hustle. Great. And I take a day for myself. So I'm working about two days. I work Monday through Thursday in my engineering gig, and then Friday, Saturday I take for myself, and then Sunday. Okay. Friday and Saturday I work, and then I take Sunday for myself.

What's your take-home pay every month? Without investing, what's your take-home pay going to be on average? It's going to be probably about $7,000. Okay. So your goal is to figure out how much gap and margin we can create between your expenses, which is going to be food, utility, shelter, transportation, and those debt payments. Everything else, we're going scorched earth for a while, because making $150 making 150, how quickly can you pay off this $103,000 in debt? If you get really intense about it, how many years is it

going to take? I estimated two and a half years. I'm saying two or less if you're following our plan. 18 months max. Okay. So now think about this. I just haven't been able to see the numbers. That's what I want you to see is the numbers. See what your life looks like two years from now when you freed up $2,000 worth of payments and you have a fully funded emergency fund. You never have to turn to a lender again. You never have to feel the shame of one of these money mistakes again. You just get to walk in freedom, making $150,000 with no payments. Nobody's going to tell you what to do. Nobody's going to demand payment from you at the end of the month. Are you a homeowner? I am. What's left on the mortgage? $330,000. And you're living alone? Yes. Okay. I want you to start dreaming about what does Chris look like 10 years from now when he's got a paid four house, making $150 probably more, 10 years from now, with no payments in the world, including no mortgage?

Think about that. And then let's reverse engineer it to where we make decisions today that get us there. And one of those decisions is pausing investing. Another one of those decisions is, screw the interest rate. I'm going to go smallest to largest because I make $150,000. So who freaking cares? These loans are going to get knocked out so quickly. And then you're going to be facing down the barrel, that car loan, the deficiency balance. And then we're onto the personal loan of $57,000. And 24 months from now, you're going to call us back and do your debt-free scream.

That's it. That's your one goal. But we can't sit here and look at the interest rates and math anymore. We've got to focus on behavior change. Right. We can argue about math once you're debt-free. That'll be a more fun time for us, at least, when we get to celebrate with you, too. So if you make it $150,000, your gross is about $1,200,000. Where's the other $5,500 a month going that you only bring home $7,000? So my mortgage is right at $3,000 with all the expenses. Okay. And then fuel. You're talking you have $7,000 left after you pay all your bills and everything.

No, no. I take $7,000 home. So $3,000 anywhere from $3,000 to $3,200 is monthly expenses for the house. And then I have, you know, my phone bill, my other... But John's saying, hey, you're grossing

$12,000, you're taking home $7,000, $5,000 can't be going to taxes every month. Well, a lot of it was going into 401ks. So that's going to stop. But you freed up that money now that you paused. So you might be taking home eight or nine grand. Yeah, I'll be about eight and a half or nine.

Right. And so next year it's going to drop to my base salary will drop down to $127,000 and then I'll have about $10,000 take home, or not take home, but in other side hustles. Okay, cool. We're still working with nine, and you have $2,000 off the top that you have to pay, so now you're down to seven, and then you got $3,000. Actually, I take that back.

I paid $3,000 amongst all those loans and stuff. $3,000 was what I paid. Sweet. We're going to start knocking them out, smallest to largest. I'm going to help you out with that, Chris. Hang on the line. We're going to send you every dollar premium. You're going to start knocking them out smallest to largest. I'm going to help you out with that, Chris. Hang on the line. We're going to send you every dollar premium. You're going to make a list. Income minus expenses need to equal zero. You give every dollar a job, create as much margin as you can to throw with that smallest debt, and you're going to feel

the momentum in no time, man. Thanks for the call. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. You can call us at 888-825-5225. John is with us in Boston, Massachusetts. John, welcome to the show. Hi, guys. How are you doing today good what's up so basically i'm 37 married i got three kids one of our two reliable vehicles has started acting up so i started looking at replacing it does that make it you know does that make it the unreliable one i mean that's hard to say it's only five-year-old vehicle right it it should not be in this situation but it is uh it's only five year old vehicle, right? It should not be in this situation, but it is, uh, it's a truck and my transmission is essentially blown. Um, so I can limp around town in it, but we're talking like a $7,000 repair. Um, right now I owe 11,000 on the truck. It's worth about 30. So like the numbers make sense to repair it, but it's also a five-year-old

truck with a hundred thousand miles on it. With this being a fairly significant repair, I started looking at buying like a new car, right? And that's like, what should I spend financially? That's how I got, you know, to your site and started, you know, consuming this content. But now I'm like, this doesn't seem like borrowing 50 grand makes sense right now. So you thought the solution was let me borrow more money to get out of this pickle yeah okay we've all been there the good

thing is at least the truck is not upside down right like that is equity in it now you're saying it's worth 30k if you fix the transmission so i mean i've kind of like been slippering around to different dealerships and i feel like i can get away with trading in that. Don't be that guy. Don't be that guy. Because a single mom's getting up in that car. Don't do that. Be a person of integrity, dude. Not for a depreciating asset.

Fair enough. It just sucks. How much money do you have? Like, what do you mean? In my bank account? Yeah. $260K in my savings account. What?

You're my hero, dude dude what are you doing mismanaging finances for sure no doubt about that what other debt do you have how much debt do you have yeah uh so you know my wife has a minivan we owe about 15k we have a mortgage with 15. Okay. So total car is 26K, and beyond that, we have nothing. We have a mortgage that we pay. We owe $304,000. No credit cards, no student loans or anything? No, we do use our credit card for all of our expenses, but we haven't paid interest ever.

What do you do for a living? I'm a people manager at a pharmaceutical company. Ah cool what's the household income uh 265 in that range okay base base so well the solution here is simple if you want to keep the truck let's just fix the transmission and drive it but we're also paying off these car loans today okay i. I mean, that's sort of what I had heard from, like, now I'm taking in the content. It's like, pay these off. The only thing I was wondering is, since there's such a low percentage rate... I was waiting for that. I was like,

I bet this guy's got a low interest rate, and he's making 5% of the savings account, and he's like, bro, I'm making the spread. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's the science, right? Like, that's the math in it. I learned it in a Harvard bar. You know what else math tells us to do? Stay out of debt. What's that? Because when we have payments going out, it lowers our money that we get to keep.

And it also causes us to buy things that we otherwise wouldn't have purchased. We would have spent less money if we had used our own money. You know what I mean? Oh, I'm feeling that right now, especially when I'm looking at interest rates and talking about taking this cash out of my savings. Yeah, it's just not worth the spread. Like I went from buying a BMW to a beater, you know? You're too smart, you're too successful,

and you have too much money to be playing the spread game. And one thing you've never experienced, and here's just my, it's a cool, you can do an experiment on either side of the equation here, okay? I want you to pay both these cars off today, and I want you to drive around and tell somebody, I'll give you $5,500 in cash at a reputable place and see if they'll fix your transmission, right?

Because you've got cash. And then I want you to sleep for a week. And then if your stress doesn't relieve a little bit, if you're not a little bit more fun to be around or you have a little bit more joy in your home, then you can go back out and take a loan out on these cars. And tell them John Deloney said you could. Yes.

Now, does taking a loan make sense? No, it would be the stupidest thing in the world most people undervalue the cost of what i would call a soul tax because there's a part of your brain always scanning the environment 24 7 365 trying to make sure we're safe and if you owe somebody else money it knows one one little glip in the matrix one report from one of your employees that you did x y or z and it's just easier to let you go and it knows we lose the cars and we probably lose the house and that little part of your brain never shuts off and it would be failing if it let you sleep all night because you're not secure and so most people like do i'm making six percent in a high yield savings account my interest rate's four percent so i'm actually keeping the two percent i'll pay that two percent

for my sleep tax any day of the freaking week you throw a mortgage on top of that and they can't take your home away now it's game on see what i'm saying okay so if we ignore the truck problem right and we just fix it and move on with our life what are we what should i be doing differently because like we maxed our 401k out for the year awesome can't contribute anymore dude if i'm so that's000. Is everything to your name? No, there's more money. Do you have an emergency fund? Yes. Okay, so anything beyond your emergency fund, I'm throwing at the house. Let's pay these car loans off.

I know it sounds crazy, because let me guess, you got a low interest rate on that mortgage. Yeah, I sure do. And I made this money in real estate, and so that is why I'm keeping it. That's why I enjoy having the cash. If something comes out, I can jump on it. I would pay off your primary home and then start dealing with investment property with cash. I tell you that. John would do the same.

I would do the same. Dave Ramsey has done the same, and he's amassed quite the real estate portfolio in cash. Yeah. And so that's... You're paying off your first loan first and then going... Exactly....for cash real estate portfolio in cash. Yeah. And so that's... You're paying off your first loan first and then going... Exactly. ...for cash real estate. So you're not over leveraged with so much risk.

You got a mortgage hanging over your head with your family. And then you're also hoping to make the spread on this investment property. It's simply too much risk. And you're going to get there in no time. Making $265 without a mortgage payment? Simple. You're going to be buying real estate like no one's business in a few years but right now we can clean up this mess real quick man tell your i think the unfortunate thing is we have not been budgeting like we just kind of started and realized

we were blowing like 20 grand a month there you go that's the power of a budget yeah dude you're gonna get such a raise when you start doing a budget yeah i mean I mean, we've already seen the change in one month, really. We like changed. All right, here's the deal. We're going to hook you up. We're going to hook you up. We're going to give you every dollar, the best app on the planet for budgeting, for planning, for paying off debt. You and your wife can dream together.

Here's how quick it's going to take us to buy another rental property, to buy this duplex we want to buy. We can begin to put all this stuff in there. And we're going to give it to you. It links up to your bank. So you and your wife talk about what we're buying, like our budget that we create together. You both entered in there together. And it attaches to your bank. So you know in real time what we're buying.

So we're going to hook you up, stay on the line here, and we'll get you taken care of with every dollar. The greatest budgeting app on planet. I like John. I like him a lot and i like guys from boston because that's where i'm from but well i'm moving for john it's the second call we've had this hour where somebody's like a uh what i'm doing not working and i make too much money to be this broke or i make too much money i have too much money in the in the bank account and i don't have this one thing i got two hundred thousand dollars in the

bank and i can't pull the trigger on a $7,000 car repair. And that tells me the person has money. The person's got intelligence. These are smart people. They don't have peace. Yeah. Right? And they're not peace. That's worth something. That means it may be worth paying off the lower interest rate first, even though it doesn't make mathematical sense because it means they'll actually get out of debt this time.

And the question I think we always have to ask ourselves is, why do we earn money? What do we amass after we pay for our basics? What does it give us? Does it give us opportunity? Maybe. Does it give us this false sense of security? Maybe. Does it give us the opportunity to go on vacations? Yeah. But if it's not giving you, then you're doing it wrong. You're doing it wrong. Because if you solve for peace, then nobody cares what you drive and nobody cares what you're wearing. And the spread on the interest doesn't matter as much. It doesn't matter. Right? It's just about solving for peace. Beautiful reminder. Well, hey, you guys can go check out EveryDollar as well. This is the way to actually pay attention to where your money's going, to stop overspending, to save more. And we've got a lot of new features in there that are great.

So go check it out. You can download it. It's a free app for iOS and Android. Go to everydollar.com and get started today. That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. My thanks to my co-host, Dr. John Deloney, all the guys in the booth keeping this show afloat, and you, America.

We'll be back before you know it.