The Ramsey Show - App - This Is How You Break Free From Broke (Hour 2)

Episode Date: January 8, 2024

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. George Campbell, Ramsey personality, host of the George Camel Show on YouTube, and co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour. With the one and only Rachel Cruz. He's my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Austin starts this hour off in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hey, Austin, how are you? Hey, thanks for taking my call. Sure, man. What's up? Hey, so I have a couple questions. I feel like I'm in a little bit of a pickle. So just long story short, I'm a registered nurse traveling right now. My wife is a stay-at-home mom.

We just had a baby this year. Congratulations. Oh, thank you. I appreciate it. I got into a nursing and senior school this year, and I started in May. Wow. Thank you. Yeah, we're very excited.

It brings on a lot of new challenges. Since we can't work for three years, it's a little bit stressful. But we have about combined about $40,000 in debt right now. I'm wondering, a lot of that doesn't have any interest. I'm wondering if I should go ahead and wipe that all out right now because I'm able to with my funds, or should I save that, pay the minimum monthly payments with no interest, and save more for school since my wife will still be staying at home and I won't have an income for three years. I can maximize my federal loans when we get to that,

but obviously not having an income makes me very nervous. So you're planning on borrowing all the way through this? Yeah, I think so, since I feel like my salary afterwards, I'll take care of that in one or two years. Yeah, you're making the assumption everything goes okay yeah exactly um with emergency funds and everything but you never know what life could throw you to at the same time so yeah i'm a little bit nervous right now yeah yeah i mean going 300K in debt, I'd be really nervous. I got to tell you, I think your career path is phenomenal. It's excellent. Thank you.

I think your method of getting there really sucks. Really? Yeah, it scares me to death. Yeah, it scares me too. If I was going to, as much coaching as we've done in the last 30 years about money stuff if i was gonna dial in what some someone could do to make a pile of money it would be exactly what you're doing it's a great income stream you're gonna you're gonna make a lot of money if everything goes okay if it doesn't go okay you're gonna have a huge mount everest to miss yeah exactly you don't pass the boards something happens to your health

something happens to your wife's health in the middle of this you have to stop and take care of her I mean you can have a car thing I mean anything can come along here this scares me to death so the company that you work for you're doing travel nursing yes sir where are you going to practice when you graduate do you have any idea um so right now my dad's also a nurse anesthetist um at his work they offer a stipend program so i plan on um whenever his boss gets back to him i may be eligible to do a stipend program which gives me anywhere from probably 10 to maybe 30 grand a year to get through to work with them for, um,

we still have to negotiate the amount of time that I'll have to do there, but, um, it'll be for a set few years. Um, so I have that. I also have, are they going to pay for that?

Are they going to pay the tuition and a stipend? They're just going to pay the stipend. So my anesthesia program i went to one of the cheapest i picked one of the cheapest in the nation thank god since i'm in state that's good how much 45 grand for 45 or um 45 000 for three years oh excellent okay man wow so why don't you work your butt off between now and then and pile up that much yeah that's exactly what i'm uh planning on doing won't you just your butt off between now and then and pile up that much. Yeah, that's exactly what I'm planning on doing. Why don't you just pay cash for it?

Yeah, it's either I want to pay cash for that, but should I take care of the debt right now? Yes. You have any money right now? Yeah. You need $85,000 between now and May. Pretty much. And your wife is going to be working while you're in anesthesia school to pay the bills if you don't get the stipend.

Yeah, she's also a registered nurse, and she can pick up whenever she wants essentially. She's going to be doing that. That's called the price of what it takes to get your butt through school. Exactly. Can you make $85,000 in the next six months? You can make $85,000 between now and May. Yeah, well, the contract rates are really down right now, especially for pediatrics.

So I'm struggling to find a contract where I don't have to leave my family for so long. Are you limited to pediatric? Yeah, I just do pediatric intensive care right now. I know. Are you limited to that with your licensing? Yes, yeah, with my experience. No that with your licensing yes yeah with my experience no not your not your licensing just your experience yeah just my experience and and your mindset so listen you need to go change the oil in cars or whatever it takes to find 85k i don't give a crap about your experience i want you to go make a big pile of money between now and may and have no debt

and 45 000 in your pocket and a game plan for your wife to work enough for y'all to eat while you finish this degree if you don't get the stipend and then you do this debt free you do it debt free because you're going to come out making 200 to 300 if you'll do this right okay aren't you yeah yeah i should come out making at least minimum probably $180,000, $200,000. $200,000 coming out, and you'll be three in an eye blink. It's a great career field. But all you're going to have to do, listen, here's the thing. This is a time that you and your wife do inconvenient things that are harsh

so that you don't have to do inconvenient harsh things later yeah absolutely you pay a price you pay a price to get this done and it's going to be it's going to be inconvenient it's going to be no fun people are going to roll their eyes and say why didn't you just take out a student loan because you're an idiot people that tell people tell you that you just look at them and say because you're an an idiot, I'm not taking out a student loan. I'm going to do this. I'm going to work my way through this. My wife's going to work.

You both have nursing degrees. Go make a big old pile of money, man. Right now, real quick, crazy. Go crazy. Act like your life depends on this. Because here's the other path. You lazily stumble in to taking on $150,000 in debt. And then you graduate and people say, well, you're a nurse anesthetist. You got to have a good lifestyle.

Upgrade the car, man. Get the car payment. And it never ends. Yeah. And so I want you to graduate no debt, making $200,000 with that baby and going, we can do whatever we want. You can stay home forever, honey, if you want.

I got this. $200,000 coming out of the gate, $300,000 in an eye blink. Yeah. That's amazing. Very cool. And it's not that hard. I mean, making $45,000 to cover the program is no biggie. Pay programs no biggie paying off 40 you can do that that's 85 and and the two of you roll up your sleeves you've got great great hearts great brains great degrees a great

direction lean into all of that and make this work and if the stipend trade-off is reasonable, I'll take that stipend deal. But if it's not reasonable, if they want 10 years for 30 grand, well, screw that. No, thank you. Those handcuffs ain't worth it. I'm not doing that. You say it's worth the squeeze, as they say. Yeah, there you go. So you've got to measure that out, see if that's worth it. But it might be easier

for your wife just to work a few, because she can work 12s. I mean, work three 12s while you're in school. It's real easy, man. It's everywhere. There's a shortage of nurses, as you know, everywhere. This is The Ramsey Show. George Campbell, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today.

He has a little thing happening next week. Little thing. We have a book launch here. It's a major, major thing. Book launch next week for George. Breaking Free from Broke comes out next Tuesday on the 16th. And if you pre-order it, you are going to get all kinds of goodies, like $100 worth of stuff, instant access to Georgia's newest talk,

Show Me the Money. You'll get instant access to Georgia's newest talk, Show Me the Money. You'll get exclusive access to an online private event, which is a Q&A with George. You're also going to get an audio book and an e-book of this book. And this book is so fun. Breaking Free from Broke, The Ultimate Guide to More Money and Less Stress. The only downside of the book was we had to invent a new font to cover the snark. It's the snark font because George is the king of snark.

I had a lot of fun writing it. And, you know, the research and the humor coming together is a beautiful thing. We got one of our first reviews on the website, Dave, because people got the e-book early if they pre-ordered before the new year. Oh, so you can get it. Can you get it now if you get the e-book? I think if you order past new year, you have to wait until launch day now but who knows okay don't ask me i don't you know i don't make that i don't call the shots but this review is

hilarious from michael k he said came for the snark stayed for the smarts quite possibly the funniest and easiest financial book to read once you start you won't be able to put it down i wasn't able to you'll laugh out loud the whole time while learning this book is a must read read for everyone, especially young adults. The amount of data-backed knowledge this book provides while being such a joy to read is staggering. Michael, what a kind review. Michael, the check's in the mail. That's an ad. That's beautiful. I know. It's a great ad. Very kind of him.

I couldn't have said it as well myself. I'm glad he said it. And you know, when you're writing a book, you hope all of these things are said about the book. That's exactly what you set out to do. That's what I set out to do. Can I make a really easy to read, fun financial book that's the financial literacy you never had? But it's so research backed because there is, there's a ton of research in it. I could have jokes all day, but I wanted to make sure it was ironclad with data.

So it's not just my opinion and it's in there, 130 sources. So pre-order before the 15th and you get $100 worth of of stuff when you buy a twenty dollar book not a bad deal at all breaking free from broke by george camel at ramsey solutions.com hit the store and you're going to get the free bonus items go ahead and get the book now um george i have bought sharon was making fun of me because i ordered a new book last night you love books I'm a big reader I have bought so many but I have read some wacky books in the past uh three weeks I've read in the past four weeks I've read three full-size hardbacks and um I mean just strange stuff and I and then I what ends up happening with me is and there were all three good books actually all three of them one of them was uh uh michael ester easter who did the uh comfort crisis he's got a new one

called uh scarcity brain and he was on on the show to promote it and gave me the book and i just just now read it he was on he's become a friend of ours now yeah and he's uh the book's really good it's it's talk about research base but yeah and I read a couple of others that are just odd books. But I knew odd people that needed to read them that were friends of mine. And so I'm buying all of these books and sending them to people now. And Sharon's like, would you quit buying books? You're in the book business. And I'm like, no, I'm in the book business.

That's why I love books. You have a whole publishing house. You love books so much. I own a publishing company. So shut up. Yes, I'm not going to. Of course, I'm going to buy books. George's book, only 20 bucks. You love books so much. I own a publishing company, so shut up. Yes, I'm not going to. Of course I'm going to buy books. George's book, only $20.

It's a great deal. Hey, it helps us if you preorder it. It helps George hit the bestseller list, which is a marketing touch. We would appreciate you preordering it if you're going to get it. That's why we bribe you and give you $100 worth of stuff extra to preorder it between now and next Monday. Because the goal is to reach new people so they see this on the list and they go must be a good book all these people bought it and i believe it is so i love that you know a guy holding up on an orange cover holding up words that's george

that's all it takes i'm pushing back against the toxic money culture dave that's that was the idea i saw the flex yeah we hit my muscles hid my muscles. You can see the muscles. They're covered in denim. I don't want to scare anyone off. Don't want anybody to be freaked out by the physique here. All right. Alexis is in Columbia, South Carolina. Hi, Alexis.

How are you? Hi, Dave. Hi, George. How are y'all doing? Better than we deserve. What's up in your world? Nothing much. I am trying to decide.

I have an HVAC I need to replace. I just moved into this house last year, and it's like 40 years old. So it needs to be replaced. And so my question is, do I want to max out my Roth IRA this year? But I also know that the HVAC is going to be around $12,000 to $15,000 to replace. And so my question is, do I stop the hold on maxing out the Roth IRA and build savings or continue to do both? How much debt do you have? I don't have any debt besides my mortgage.

Good. How much money do you have saved? $9,000. That's your emergency fund? Yes. Okay. What's your household income? Per month or annual? Either. So $5,300 a month. Take home? Take home. That is take home. How long have you been doing that? Just for the past year. Okay.

So that's where you got $9,000 and got rid of the debt and got a house. Right. But the furnace is running. It's just old. Right. It works. Okay. So if you save $2,000 a month for three months, you'd have enough for the furnace.

Okay. Did I do that right? Why was that wrong? That's right. $2,000 a month. You're right. For three months. Is that wrong?

Can you do that? So with the $5,300, $3,700 goes towards my mortgage and bills, and then I put $1,000 in savings. Oh, mortgage and bills. Oh, okay. How much is your mortgage? Huh? My mortgage is $1,400.

Okay. All right, that's better. I feel better. Where's the other? I mean, you got a whole $2,300 worth of bills? Well, the way that I budget my finances, yeah. Okay, I'd take a good look at that budget and see what can we cut right now. And if there's anything, you know, that feels frivolous that we can cut temporarily,

I would do that to create the margin to save up for this HVAC. Yeah, and then just be systematically putting 15% of your household income into retirement. But if you've got an emergency fund, you ought to be able to save up some money while you have an emergency fund. It might take you four months. I don't know. Does the HVAC have four months left in it? Sure.

I think so. Yeah, it's just making noises like it's on Christmas story or something. Right? And I would also get some bids because $15,000 feels like a dave you've replaced some hvacs in your day i don't know what that what they cost now depends on what it is yeah but yeah you always get two or three bids and learn something when you're buying something that expensive and you know try to find a friend that knows people in the business and you can teach that can teach you about this whole process and you know all that kind of stuff so that you can keep from you know maybe it's 12 000 instead of 15 that would be a cool thing that's a big difference yeah and maybe you don't need the

bentley of furnaces maybe you just need the chevrolet of furnaces i don't know they made those chevy's in the furnace business just um making this up right here i do that pretty regularly open phones at 888-825-5225 so george one of the things that she can do with every dollar budget is to sit down with the app and usually when someone has broken things out the way she has she's got only two buckets 3700 is my700 is my expenses, including her $1,400 payment, right? And then I'm free after that. And that might be true. It might be true. But I would rather you just say, all right, I'm going to make sure I take care of the

necessities of life, food, shelter, clothing, transportation, utilities, right there on the budgeting app, and then go, okay, I got to take care of my insurance over here, too. All right, what else have i got and you just keep looking at and go all right now where is the rest of this going because every time someone sits down and does a budget particularly in every dollar budget you always have this sense of where's the rest of it going a little mystery i make that much where did it disappear to yeah i don't have that many bills it's um but in john maxwell our friend says that a budget is people telling their money what to do instead of wondering where it went. And so when you start doing a

budget, you will feel, you will have the sensation as if you got a raise. Every time. Every time. And I can tell you're not doing a detailed budget because you've got it broken down into just two buckets. Huge buckets. And I love every dollar because you can create sinking funds. So I can start saving up $1,000 a month for that repair, and it will automatically set it aside for me, which is great. Absolutely. This is The Ramsey Show. george camel ramsey personality is my co-host today in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt-free stage raymond and lana are with us hey guys how are you better than we deserve i hear you welcome welcome to nashville and uh where do you guys live south haven michigan which is near kalamazoo in southwest michigan uh and i think there's like a

football game tonight there might be and you're here instead we're here instead wow wow yeah here to do a debt-free scream how much debt have you paid off 128 000 in two years good for you and your range of income during that two years 90 to90,000 to $120,000 or so. Cool. What do you all do for a living? Special ed teacher. And I'm a behavioral specialist in the same school system. Awesome.

Very cool. What kind of debt was the $128,000? Mostly mortgages and car payments. And a little credit card. Paid off your house? Two houses. Two of them? Yep them yep wow i'm looking at weird people yes look at you no debt in the world anywhere of any kind exactly how does that

feel wonderful yep baby step seven wow look at you way to go way to go so what happened two years ago that put you on this ramsey journey well COVID kind of hit us and then we kind of started selling things in the house we sold the whole basement we just put that on eBay marketplace and everything and we just sold sold sold people were coming up and down our driveway every night our next door neighbor thought we were selling drugs but it was my brother so he knew we weren't selling drugs and and we live in Michigan so there was just a cornfield between me and my brother so he knew we weren't selling drugs and and we live in michigan so there was just a cornfield between me and my brother so we're out in the middle of nowhere yeah so you sold you sold stuff like crazy but what what what caused the switch to flip to cause

you to do all this well we were looking at our finances and we figured we could retire we couldn't retire we couldn't retire until we're 67 And that didn't appeal to us at all. So actually, we just retired. We both just retired from the school. So you paid off everything and retired. How old are you? I'm 61. 59.

All right. You beat that 67 over the head. Way to go. Yeah. Way to go. So how'd you get connected up with us? Podcasts. And I prayed prayed we were praying about it and every time we prayed the name dave ramsey just kept coming up we couldn't go anywhere without someone mentioning dave ramsey so so um that's a little

scary that's a haunting prayer right there yeah so yeah we really felt like we need to open the book okay you know there we go and game on anyway this makes sense let's try this yeah what are the properties worth about each property is about 250 000 way to go how much in your nest egg um so we have about 500 000 in retirement all right yeah so you're millionaires yeah look at you baby steps millionaires yeah just like that who would have thunk it yeah yep people were making fun of us because we're driving old cars and the hubcaps fell off a race car he was driving a 2009 malibu and he wasn't going to replace them so people were laughing and he wore his shoes till they

had holes in them i wasn't quite that good. Ray, you're just cheap. He was cheap, yeah. I was cheap. It's like you upgraded the shoes. I don't see any holes. No holes. But yeah, we had eight different jobs in addition to our teaching jobs. Wow.

So we just went out and really worked hard. And if somebody needed help in a restaurant, I would wait tables yeah if somebody needed help bartending lana would bartend yeah and we just rolled with that and and uh then we started doing side businesses we both have a boat well we have a boat and we've had it for a number of years and i would wax the boat and paint the bottom of our own boat and during covid you know other people needed that service is done so we started doing that we started a nice little business now and we're gonna use that like you say to help finance until we get social security we're going to be washing and waxing boats so well why not yeah we got a side business so we're semi-retired really it's

not glamorous but it's yeah it's a lot of fun good money too it's good money yeah yeah and steady work and steady work yeah and it's funny we'll be washing a boat in a slip and then two other people will come over and say can you come wash ours and then we pick up new clients that way free marketing right there yeah it is no way to go you guys way to go so what's the first big thing you're going to do now that you're 100% debt-free to celebrate? We're going to come to Nashville and do the debt-free stream. Oh, wait. Who knew?

Yeah. We listen to those podcasts sometimes eight hours. We're in the barns alone while we're washing and waxing bolts. It would be a beautiful day. Our friends are out on Lake Michigan sending us pictures of their toes in the sand and drinking margaritas and saying, where are you guys? So we would listen to the podcast. The podcast was our lifeline. Wow.

And we really said, you know, we just hoped we could be here one day. And now you get to have your toes in the sand. Yeah. Living like no one else. That's right. And be generous. And we started with Baby Step One, and we paid off that smallest debt. And then that debt rolled into other debts.

And as we paid them off, we had more money to pay the bigger debts. And then pretty soon we were living on only 25% income and everything was going to debts. And then even after we paid off our last mortgage, we continue living on 25%. Wow. And put all that into retirement. 401Ks and 403Bs. Load it up. Load it up at the end. Way to go. Thank you all that into retirement. 401Ks and 403Bs. Load it up, yeah.

Load it up at the end. Way to go. Thank you. Way to go. If you had one piece of advice to somebody listening, they're under the boat waxing out there trying to get through it. What's the one thing you tell them about this whole process that you learned? You can do it. You can do it. Don't give up.

Stay dedicated. We started late. We were 55 when we started, and we thought we were doing okay. And we were Dave Ramsey-ish, and we sat down and did a budget and thought, whoa, we are not where we should be. So you can do it. You can do it. You get things paid off a lot quicker than you think.

Yeah, two years went by fast. It went by fast. Sure did. And now you're free. And now we you think. Yeah, two years went by fast. It went by fast. Sure did. And now you're free. And now we're free. Yeah, I love it. I'm proud of y'all. Congratulations.

Thank you. Very, very well done. What a great story. I love that. I want everyone out there who's in their 50s to go, when can we actually retire? And if it's not when you want to, it's time to make some changes. And you guys are living proof. It took two years.

And you turned this whole thing around. Gazelle and Pence boat around two years that was for you dave that's good i like that very well done all right raymond and lana hey we've got uh the total money makeover for you the baby steps millionaires book for you you're probably in there somewhere and uh financial peace membership you can give those away or use them or however you want to do it those are gift to you to say thanks for coming all the way from kalamazoo to do your debt-free scream 128 000 paid off in two years make a 90 to 120 count it down let's hear a debt scream three two one we're debt free something happens george when you identify a goal that is bigger than people's opinions. Ooh. When you identify a goal, I want to retire by 59, 60, not 67. And I don't really care what you think.

I'm going to go wax boats. I'm going to wait tables, 10 bar. I'm going to sell stuff so much stuff out of the side of the door that my brother thinks we're doing drugs over here. I mean, you see, you just don't care what people think. All of a sudden you can do all kinds of crap. It is a freaking superpower. I mean, it's amazing what can happen when you're willing to do anything to get something you never had.

And Raymond and Lon are just living proof. They just busted their butts. And this wasn't a 10-year journey. It was a two-year journey. I could do anything for two years. And I have at times. Oof. Most people.

You've got to pay a price to win. Nobody accidentally wins, you know, and they didn't accidentally win. They leaned in hard. They went hard, man. You know what? They're completely done. What happens is you accidentally. Paid for $250,000 houses.

Live this mediocre life for 20 years where you're broke. And all it takes is two years of intentionality to clean up the mess. Yeah. Man, they're heroes. Absol fabulous couple but that's that that's what happens all of a sudden you know you get dialed in you go hubcaps i don't need hubcaps who cares hubcaps are for you they're not for me i mean i'm good i'll get me some hubcaps later and i'll get a different car too so there hello this is the ramsey show dave ramsey here george camel is my co-host ramsey personality open phones at 888-825-5225 we're glad you're with us thanks for for hanging out. Xenia is next.

She's in Los Angeles. Hi, Xenia. Welcome to the show. How can we help? Yes. Thank you guys for having me on. Sure. My question is, me and my husband just got out of debt.

We'll be completely debt-free by December of this year. Congratulations. Thank you. Wait a minute. You got out of debt or you will be we will be out of debt by december of this year 12 more months yes okay so my question is we want to open a media company because we want to start working for ourselves but we're not sure which route to take because everybody's been telling us either to take

a business phone and i don't want to do that because we're just getting out of debt and i don't want to go back into it good everybody's stupid don't do what everybody says on anything okay yeah so what what kind of a media company are you starting well we want to be able to make our own movies because i write a lot of stories because i'm disabled and i so i just am not a great author so we figured making it into a film will be better because everybody's enjoyed it but i'm not a great writer why do you need a media company in order to write a film script could Could you not sell the script? People have told me I could, but we want to just make it into an actual film.

Okay, I'm telling you, there's companies that will buy the script if it's good, and they'll make it into a movie, and they'll cover the production costs versus you, you know, going hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt to do this is a bad plan. I had no idea about that. Yeah, I would start there and just start doing your research on this industry. I mean, you're in L.A. Get connected with people who are in this industry, and that's going to be your best bet to take the next step. But I don't think you need to start a media company today,

and you definitely should not do it with any debt. Okay. What do you do for a living now, hon? I'm disabled, so my husband's a breadwinner. I do try to do some side gigs on the side, like online, like side hustles, but it's been a struggle because we got hit really hard at the pandemic, and that's how we got into debt. Yeah. What does your husband make? Right now, he's making about $16,000 a year. $16,000?

$16,000. Yeah. How are you guys surviving? Well, we got lucky getting this rental unit, which we're only paying $450 a month for. What is he doing for work? He's essentially taking care of me because my health is not the greatest. So I always need somebody 24-7. So who is paying him? I am in this program called In-Home Support Services, and they're paying him to be around me 24 7 but they're paying a minimum wage to do this yes yeah this is a problem it's not

sustainable it's not but he if you if you have to have care 24, how are you able to make a film? Hello? Yes, I'm here. Sorry. That's okay. If you have to have care 24-7, how are you able to make a film? That's true. I try to do what I can at home, though,

because I have moments where I can do stuff sitting down. Yeah, I mean'm not i'm not questioning you being lazy that's not what i'm saying but i'm saying if you're so limited you have to have 24 care 24 hour 24 7 care um i don't think you're going to be making a film unless i'm missing something no you're not you're right okay so i think george is probably on to something. Let's start writing and see if we can write a script that we can get someone to buy the script. And I think that'll be helpful. And long term, we've got to think about your husband's career and your care and how we can accentuate those and create more income for the household. And it's not a media company.

It is certainly not borrowing money to go into debt's not a media company and it's certainly not borrowing money to go into debt to start a media company we definitely don't want to do that kyle is with us in gainesville florida hi kyle welcome to the ramsey show hello hey what's up i'm looking for some expert opinion, I guess. Well, we'll call one. No, I'm kidding. How can we help? So my wife, she's been staying home for the past three years with the kids. And she's got some retirement accounts from when she was working with local government. And she's been saying that we should cash them out to pay off some stuff. And I'm a CPA, so I'm always thinking about the tax implications of that

and early distribution penalties and things like that. Exactly. Just trying to get an outside perspective. Yeah. What's your household income? $95. Okay. So cashing this out is going to cost you 30% plus a 10% penalty, right?

Right. Yeah. So that's a 40. I'm going to borrow money at 40% interest, honey, to pay off my debts. Right. I don't think so. How much debt do you have? We've got about $38,000, not including the mortgage.

Okay. And you make $95,000. I think you just get on a tight budget and let's roll up our sleeves and get this paid for as quick as you can. because you don't want to borrow money at 40 interest you you knew that before you called right oh i i did i'm like i said this is an outside perspective you're just trying to win the argument and you did way to go kyle i think you need to show her a plan as how we're going to pay this debt off with future income and current savings and let's get on let's get on a

budget get on the every dollar budget get the app up tonight y'all get it out and look at it lay it out there on your website i mean on your desktop show her this is what we're going to do but borrowing money at 40 interest is never a good plan, and that's the equivalent of doing that when you take that much in penalties. You give almost half your money to the government to cash this out early. No, let's roll that old retirement plan into a good IRA and some good mutual funds and try to make a little money with our money. Say, honey, I love the spirit of you wanting to become debt-free so quickly,

but here's a better way to do it. Beverly Sills' famous quote, there's no shortcut to any place that's worth going. There's a price to be paid to win. And you don't want to make things hard on purpose, but we don't want to cash out retirement. The only time we cash out retirement is to avoid foreclosure or bankruptcy or something extreme like that. But it's not to pay off debt. It's certainly not to buy crap, that kind of stuff, because you're going to get hammered. You get hit with your tax rate plus a 10% penalty. It's ridiculous. It's horrible. And using any kind of debt on top of that to, you know, people taking out HELOCs or the 401k

loan to pay off debt, using one kind of debt to pay off other debt, it doesn't make sense. And so our plan always points back to using current savings, stuff you can sell, future income, that's the best path to do it. Yeah, and just crank down your stinking lifestyle and get in attack mode. That's the hard part. I think people truly don't want to sacrifice, yet they're willing to pay 40% interest. Or looking for a shortcut. Yeah. Looking for a shortcut so I don't have to tell myself no. Do it the hard way the first time. Yeah. Otherwise, it's called a stupid tax and you call us after you make the mistake.

Well, I mean, part of growing up and part of being an adult is just learning to say no to yourself and to others. I mean, and by the way, no is a complete sentence. You know, it's the ancient word. No one says it anymore. If you say no to people now, they just freak out. Hurts their feelings. Oh, well, they're mad at you. I mean, you're some kind of evil monster.

You know, you suggested that I be denied. I'm just trying to live my truth, Dave. Yeah, you suggested that I don't. How dare you suggest a no in my life? I'll help you with a big old no. It begins with an N, ends with an O. Just like that, a big old no. You just put your tongue towards the roof of your mouth, release air,

give your lips a little kissing motion. It sounds just like this, no. I think that's universal. Every culture understands that one. No, my dog understands that. Shake your head. No, no, no. It's a good word. You can't say no to your dog understands that. Shake your head. No. Uh-uh. No. No. It's a good word, but.

You can't say no to your dog, Dave. I say no to a lot of things. I say no to Dave. Even Dave gets a no. So, I mean, come on. Hey, that's called controlling yourself, you know, and not picking on Kyle by any stretch, but just everybody out there. I mean, if you don't get the concept of no,

you're going to struggle the rest of your dadgum life with every part of your life. No, I can't eat that dadgum chocolate you brought in here a while ago. That's right. I actually tried to offer Dave some chocolate during the break. You did. This guy. You evil devil child. No.

That's how I keep my physique. I offer Dave chocolates and I don't take them. No. Get away from me, George. No. That's how I keep my physique. I offer Dave chocolates and I don't take them. No. Get away from me, George. No. That's how you do it, right there. This is The Ramsey Show. Take care.