The Ramsey Show - App - This Is Not Going To End Well (Hour 2)

Episode Date: January 18, 2024

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Jade Walshaw, Ramsey personality personality best-selling author of the book money's not a math problem she's my co-host today open phones at 888-825-5225 dylan is in orlando hi dylan how are you hey dave thanks so much for taking my call sure what's up so i've worked really hard and i've sacrificed a lot to pay my way through school. I've got one class left in my bachelor's and I plan to go on to attain my master's degree in business.

I saved up my money really well. My girlfriend and I live together and we've been together for two years and she's in her second of eight years to become a veterinarian. That's been our lifelong dream. It's going to put her in about a $200,000 to $250,000 hole of debt and the average income for that degree in the state of Florida is $114,000. To000 to $250,000 hole of debt. And the average income for that degree in the state of Florida is $114,000. To me, that's a scary amount of debt. And without waiting basically 10 years to have kids, buy a house, get married, any of those things, do you have any

thoughts on how to minimize this debt? Or is it even a good idea to get into? And I can provide background on each of our finances as well, if needed. Yeah. When are you planning to get married? I'd like to get married in probably two and a half to three and a half years. Why so long? Well, we've had a few ups and downs in our relationship and it's been going, it's been going pretty well, but I also want her to get some school under her belt before we go and figure out some, you know, other financial things before jumping into that with both of you. And I kind of want to have her grow with God a little bit more. My relationship with God's a little bit stronger and, you know, her and I are growing in the faith together, but I kind of want her to get

to a good point with God and with the idea of marriage before jumping into marriage, because I want it to have a chance to really succeed rather than fail like more than 50% of marriages. Okay. So Dylan, I hear you saying that you've got a, you've got a point. You, you want her to be somebody different. You want her to grow with God? Not necessarily. A little bit. I just want her to have an opportunity to grow with God rather than, because she hasn't had a chance to really meet God only except for when she kind of met me. Is she a Christian person? She's a Christian person and you've been with her two years? Correct. Okay. I just, I'm just being honest with you. This is, I don't know you. I just met you two seconds ago. Listening to you talk, you have a version of her that you want her

to be. We don't know how long that's going to take. And this is a financial thing. This is a spiritual thing. It also sounds like there's some things with her job that, again, you don't think it's a good ROI for her school, which don't get me wrong, I don't want her to go into debt either. But the things that you're describing could be red flags or could be deal breakers. You said you've had ups and downs. Listen to maybe I'm wrong. And this is the people can weigh in on this. I, I am of the mind that when you're dating someone to marry them, it should be the best time ever. Like it should be easy and good. And it shouldn't be this ups and downs. And I need you to turn into this person that listen, that happens

after you get married, after you get married is when you're like, I need you to turn into this person that listen that happens after you get married after you get married is when you're like I need you to be different you know and so if you're facing that now for me that's that that could be some that could give me some pause is all I'm saying right fair enough good point to think about and and then other other than that because then it's like okay like when when couples who are dating are in therapy, I'm like, listen, give it up. Like like you shouldn't be in therapy yet. So does that make sense? I'm just a little worried about some of the things you're saying. Don't get me wrong. It's OK to want someone to grow.

But you have a three year trajectory of growth that you think she needs before you can marry her. That's and that's a long time. Yeah, that's a long time yeah that's a long time that's like you're waiting on someone else to grow up and um or something like that i mean she's 14 and you're waiting till she's 17 i mean i don't know but i mean that's the way that's kind of the that's a long time anyway back to your rigid back back to your tactical question how can she go to veterinarian school for less than $200,000? Well, number one, it depends on where she goes to vet school,

because vet schools are like all other schools. There is a vast spectrum of what they charge. Number two, $114,000 is the average, but I know a lot of veterinarians that make more than docs. The pet world is a big, expensive, crazy world now. What people spend on their pets, including the Ramsey's is outrageous. And so, um, you know, the, uh, there's a lot of opportunity in that field because, uh, America, Americans budget for their pet is it's crazy. So, uh, yeah, I, I, I think events of veterinarian is actually an excellent field to go into. I'm with you.

I would try to limit or do away with the $200,000 in debt while I'm doing that. I would do that first with school choice. I would do that second with talking to some local veterinarians that have big practices that might chip in some scholarship money or whatever to, and in return, she agrees to work there her first year out or something like that. There's even the drug business in the animal world is massive. And if one of those pharmaceutical providers has scholarships for vets in order for the vet to look favorably on them later that wouldn't be unusual or unethical and so I would be poking around on all those

kinds of things to try to create money to move towards paying the bill number one and then number two lower the bill by where we go to school and so forth. But I want to play with animals and I want to go $200,000 in debt to play with animals is not a plan. That's a childish view of actually a wonderful degree. And I'm not sure which of those she's taking. I was not accusing her of that. True. But I have met people that since I was six, I wanted to be a veterinarian yeah but when you were six you didn't understand what it cost true and when

you're six you didn't understand it involved poop lots of poop honestly you know you didn't understand you didn't understand it involved blood and guts and uh animals dying and so on they're not puppies they're old and crusty when they come in it's uh you know it's so you're not puppies. They're old and crusty when they come in. So you're not six anymore. And so I'm guessing she has moved past that. But if we're blowing up a six-year-old's dream, that's fine. If we're blowing up a 24-year-old's dream and saying, define it and approach your dream as an adult so it doesn't become a nightmare, that I'm in. And we can go that direction and um so yeah i i would i would do that um dylan i'm gonna jump on one other thing

and then uh because you you walked into this brother i'm sorry did you say y'all were living together i'm all ears did you say you were living together yeah did you say you're living together yes for financial reasons for her she wouldn't have a basically a place to live you remember that you remember that god part yeah yeah you remember that bible that goes with that god part i hear you okay i felt like that was coming well i mean uh you well i got another one coming i don't like that he's like taking care of her i don't i don't like that i like she didn't have a place to live, so I got to give her a place to live. She doesn't know how to do this degree, so I'm going to show her how to. I don't like this.

I'm sorry, Dylan. I'm talking about you, but I don't like this relationship. I want people who are equal and they see eye to eye. I feel like you're up here and you're viewing her down here and you're big papa who's got to take care of her. I don't like that. Pretty young to be a sugar daddy. This is The Ramsey Show.

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They're just a little bit of changes. We caught a few things up, but, you know, time to spruce her up ever so often. So we're going to dress her up a little bit, put her back out, and then we're going to do this big event total money makeover weekend here in national it's going to be great i mean the lineup on this and the all the different subject matter it's going to be covered it's going to be all new content yeah completely new good stuff new content around old ideas that's right there we go which is what we've always done by the way all right tyler is with us in atlanta georgia Hey Tyler, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Thank you guys so much for the opportunity to be able to speak with you here. You too. What's up? So, I'm 34 years old. About to be going through a divorce unfortunately. I'm sorry. How long have you been married? I've been married almost 7 years.

I have two little girls together. Oh, man. So my question, as direct as I can be with it, is we've been—I have bought into the baby steps in the process, and everything that we have been working towards has, has been in line with that. And now with this divorce, um, it's kind of obviously thrown a big wrench in into those plans a little bit. So what I'm trying to figure out is I, I purchased the home that we live in before we were married. Um,

so I know the house will stay were married. Um, so I know the house will, will stay with me. Um, what I'm trying to decide though, is I have about $71,000 worth of debt and I have roughly between 200 to $250,000 worth of equity in the house. Uh, the plan was always to pay off the debt, sell the house, and then use that money to build a house outright and become completely debt-free. So my question, I guess, is What do you make? I currently make $84,000 a year, but within the next six months, I expect that to be between probably $100,000 to probably 100 to 120 based off of the incentives with the new company that I'm at. What is the 70,000 in debt?

I have 18,000 in credit cards. I have 30,000 in a truck. I have $10,000 worth of student loans. And I was previously had my own construction company so I still have about $13,000 worth of debt related to that company that I'm working on. What is she driving? She is driving a vehicle that her parents had given to her. And it's paid for? Yes, sir. Okay.

How old are your girls? Five and one will be four tomorrow. No, I would sell my truck. I wouldn't sell my house. Okay. Because that cuts your debt almost in half. Correct. And you make $120,000 a year coming up soon.

You can pay off $40,000 in debt really fast as a single guy with nobody telling you what to do. Right. So unfortunately, the $30,000 is what I owe on the truck, but I'm upside down in it. I took out a higher interest rate loan on it than I should have known better than to do. So I'm not sure how to get out. How much upside down? Probably about $9,000. That's okay. Go borrow the $9,000. You got any money at all i have very little saved up uh the the transition from when i was self-employed to now working for somebody else i i had about a two and a half month period where i had very little income and that that drained a lot so what do you have saved i have about two thousand dollars two thousand good okay

good so i yeah you're going to get a loan for nine thousand dollars if that's truly the difference um you're guessing because you haven't really looked it up because you didn't say so i'm going to find out from kelly blue book what the private sale value on this truck is and let's get it sold it is the biggest item in your situation and it moves the needle the fastest the furthest and it's just a stupid truck i would hold on to the house i think the house is going up in value the truck's going down in value um and um you know part of what happens when you're going when someone's going through what you're going through um again we can even hear the sadness in your voice. There's a, there's a grief. And one thing that grief always does to all of us, um, is it, it cloud, we get clouds in the brain

for a little while. And so Jade and I have the benefit of sitting here looking at your numbers with cold logic and no emotion. And you're sitting there with two little baby girls and a broken heart and a failed construction company going into a new job, there's a lot of heartache in your life in the last 36 months. Correct. And so when I said sell your truck, you almost cried. No, I promise you I have no emotional attachment to the truck. It's a tough situation. It's one I didn't see myself in.

I know. I know. I know. The past, I was not. Hey, dude not i'm not making fun of you and i was not shaming you either one i'm just observing that any normal human being that's been through the three or four things that have hit you in the face in the last three years will be hurting you you would be if you're not hurting you're a psychopath okay right and so uh yeah and in the middle of that to me it's very you you want to just make

all the debt go away so the hurt goes away and selling the house seems quick and easy yeah you can do that if you want to it's not a an immoral act or an unethical act at all um i'm kind of thinking those little girls bedrooms i'd like to keep them intact for a little while that's what i'm thinking not at all costs but but if i if i can choose a truck over that i'll i'll choose keeping their bedrooms there yeah i'm also looking back he said he had 13 000 from his construction business i'm wondering if there's some things that he can sell off to clear that a little bit if there's something maybe or there may be some negotiation with some of those vendors of pennies on the dollar because i don't think they're going to get paid through that

you've got options yeah i i think you can plow through this debt pretty quickly if you got rid of the truck um and that's that's where i would go before i would go to the house in your situation rob but it's not wrong to sell the house i just think this other route might be better when you look back five years later this is the ramsey show jade washall ramsey personality number our best-selling author uh money's not a math problem the book just hit the bestseller list this week sorry last week rather so uh she's my co-host today open phones at 888-825-5225 jade and i and all the ramsey personalities want to say thank you for the number of you that share this show subscribe to the show follow click follow click subscribe uh click the share button

or cut the link out and send it to somebody or tell somebody where you're listening on talk radio our ratings in every platform from youtube to podcast to everything are way up we had our billionth download on this show and i hit number one on all of apple podcasts just the other day so thank you for for that. We appreciate you helping us. You are our marketing program. We don't have $300 million to put in marketing like SoFi. Excuse me. And so you guys are it.

You have to help us. Thank you. We appreciate you helping us. Share the show. Leave a nice five-star review. Review the show. Share the show. Subscribe. all that kind of stuff. Melissa is in Paducah, Kentucky.

Hi, Melissa. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hello. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up? Well, we started doing your program several years ago, kind of got off track. Now we've got our baby steps kind of all jacked up.

Your baby's walking with a limp. kind of got off track. Now we've got our baby steps kind of all jacked up. And yeah. Your baby's walking with a limp. Pretty much. It's like bow-legged or something. So anyways, me and my husband, we were just trying to decide. I have a 401k that was started years and years and years ago by employer. I'm no longer with that employer, haven't really done anything with it. It's with stocks. It has grown some, not a whole lot. We haven't been putting in it because we've been trying to work on our baby steps. So then we got our emergency fund. We got like $10,000 in our emergency fund, and then we have $15,000 in this 401K. Our question is, we don't have a whole lot in credit cards.

I hear some people, and I'm thinking, holy crap. But we just have like $5,700 in credit cards. What's your household income? $75,000. Are you guys, you know, we're joking around about your baby and all this stuff, but are you guys uh you know we're joking around about your baby and all this stuff but are you guys really going to do it this time yes really yes yes i have to i have to i have a daughter that's getting ready to go to college then let's line this up and do it exactly like we teach right no no flinching is the credit card dead it what else is there um we have a car yeah

how much is the car 35 to 35 000 and your household income is what 75 000 you told me that i'm sorry and then you got the seven and you have 15 000 how much in your emergency fund 10 000 okay then you have to let go ahead sorry. I'm sorry. And then you just got the $5,700 on credit cards. That's it? Right. And our house is $54,000. Okay. But that doesn't come until later. So why can't you reach over with this emergency fund? Why can't you reach over, pay off those credit cards, and let's look at this car and see about downgrading it. And aren't you done very quickly after you do that? Pretty much. We just didn't know with that 401K if we should,

since we kind of did the baby steps backwards, if we should pull out of that. We're not going to worry about having done them backwards before. We're going to start going forward right now. Right now, if you started and you'd never heard of us before and you called us today, we would tell you to take everything out of your emergency fund down to $1,000 and throw it at your smallest debt. How much in the emergency fund again?

$10,000. Okay. So we paid off the credit cards. Now, have you cut up the credit cards yet? Yes. Yes. You have? Yeah.

All of them? I only have one. What happened is... Is it cut up? It is. It is. What happened is we had like three or four just little ones, and then we transferred them over for 0% APR for 24 months.

Yeah. But you never paid it off? Didn't work. No, the 24 months don't end until December 31st of this year. So write a check today and pay off the credit cards. Now what about the car? And then you need to sell your car. Okay.

The car's too expensive. I've already been doubling up on the car. The car's too expensive. It's too expensive for you. You don't need a $35,000 car when you have a $75,000 income. You shouldn't have vehicles totaling more than half your annual income, and you do because you have another car. Right.

That's the only one we have, though. You have one car? One car, yes. Okay. Well, you're right at half your annual income. If you want to keep it, you can keep it, but I probably wouldn't. I think it's too expensive. And I'd probably get about a $10,000 car,

and let's pay that off as quickly as possible, and then you're debt-free, everything but the house. No, we don't cash out 401ks. Besides that, here's a technicality. You can't add to a 401k from a place you used to work. You can only add to a 401k where you currently work. So that 401k you get with a SmartVestor Pro at Ramsey Solutions, and you

roll it over to an IRA. You clean out your emergency fund, you get your car stuff straightened out. I think you sell the $35,000 car and you buy about a $5,000 car for cash. And, um, now you're, now you're debt free,

except your house. You build your emergency fund back up then three to six months of expenses. And then you start investing and you can be wealthy then. I mean, in five years, you're going to be in a way different position than you are right now. You can make this stuff move pretty quick, but you're going to have to just start looking around going, I want peace more than I want this car. I'd sell that car simply because they need to feel something. Like they've been down this road. They had a boat-legged baby. This is how you start walking right is when you feel it.

And you've got skin in the game. You know what I'm saying? So I think that's what they need. Yeah, I would. And the thing is it's kind of, it stands out in the situation. It looks weird. Yeah. You know, it's the only big thing laying there, and it's a car.

And it's an out-of-balance car. So there's a lot of things that say sell it. I agree. I would if I were in your shoes. And it's not to say you don't get a nicer car later, but I wouldn't have that car. And I would get rid of those credit cards today. I would not cash out the 401K. Nope.

And we're going to use the rest of that $10,000 to get rid of this car and get you a $5,000 or $10,000 car. And you pay cash for it as quick as you can or pay it off very very in one or two months that kind of thing and then you're 100% debt free except the house then you build your emergency fund baby step three three to six months of expenses then you start investing in your 401k yeah step four 15% of your income going in and if you guys are serious about this I'm going to have Austin pick up and put you guys into Financial Peace University and sign you up for every dollar, the every dollar premium, and we're going to give it to you free. But if you're going to do that, you have to promise Austin you're really going to do it because I don't want to give it to you

and you do nothing with it. Something tells me they're a single income family. Did we ask that? Something tells me there's room for somebody to start working more. Yeah, could be. Could be. It's possible. No, we did not ask that, but it's possible. Rob's in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Hey, Rob, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, thank you. Thanks for having me on the show.

Sure. So I have a situation I'd like to throw at you guys and get your opinion. So I have a son who's a senior at Naval Academy. They're responsible. He has no debt, about $ about 40 000 in the bank and one of the benefits they offer the students is a low interest loan yeah it's a horrible benefit oh it gets these kids in trouble all the time we run into the military all the time oh it's awful well yeah you surely agree it could be what What he's done, though, is taken that loan, and he's dropped it to a 6% CD.

And what he's going to do is when the CD matures is about the time the payments are due, put it in the high-yield money market, and just draw off that fund to pay it back over the term of the loan. And looking at the numbers, he'll probably put $7,000, $8,000 in his pocket once the loan is paid off. Whoopi, $7,000 in his pocket once the loan is paid off. What are your thoughts on that? $7,000 does not make you rich. He's put a lot of risk at his footsteps. Oh, this is so scary. Now, there's so much that can go wrong here and so little that can go right.

If he does it all perfectly, he doesn't make anything, don't amount to anything. And so, Rob, the way i gauge stuff like this is i think okay when we interviewed 10 000 millionaires how many of them said i borrowed money at low interest and put it in a high yield savings and made the spread and that made me a millionaire let me help you out of 10 000 of them precisely zero said that they would use a technique like this they lived on less than they make they save and invest they pay cash for things and your son had all of that going until he did this and he tried to get sophisticated all for just four grand or five grand no i i would cash that out and i'd pay it off today i wouldn't walk around with this

hanging around my neck just for a couple grand it's just a the risk return on it is horrid this is the Ramsey Show. Jade Warshaw, Ramsey personality, is my co-host. Kat is in Columbia, South Carolina. Hi, Kat. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up in your world? So I just want to give you a little bit of background.

I'm a graduate student right now, and I have usually been working three jobs at the same time while getting my degree so that I didn't have to take out loans for grad school. Good for you. What are you studying? I do have some loans. Wildlife biology. Say it again. Wildlife biology. Oh, wildlife biology oh wildlife biology okay cool okay um so i was able to follow your methods and i was working on getting my debt as low as possible because i did have some um student loans from undergrad unfortunately, due to recent life, I've had to pull a lot more out of

my savings than I would like. So now I have about equal amounts of debt that I have to savings. And I hopefully will graduate in May, but there's no guarantee that I will have a job straight out of school because the market says flooded in my area. So I was wondering if you had any advice on which debt to focus on first and foremost. Okay. Have you got all the bills paid from now till May? So there's no debt associated with the graduation? No. So I have about $1,000 of tuition left to pay for this semester, but I paid all of the

rest of it. And you have the money to pay the thousand? In i paid all of the rest of it and you have the money to pay the thousand in savings yes i do okay we're gonna because i don't want to add any debt that's the first goal yeah graduating with no new debt and then how much debt is there now so i have about three thousand dollars of student loans which were originally paid off and then biden said he was going to refund them so now i have to pay it off second time okay um and then i have three thousand dollars in car loans about three hundred dollars in credit card debt that i've whittled down from about a thousand and three hundred300 in medical debt. Okay.

Well, you're a hardworking lady. You've been busting your butt. I can tell by the numbers and the way you're talking through this, and you're really on top of and know your numbers. So that tells me you've been very intentional and concentrating. Congratulations. So the long and the short is if you can graduate with no more damage and then make enough doing something until you land the big girl graduate job, uh, that you can

eat and pay your bills. I want you to tread water till you land the big job and you should land it within a month or two. And when you land the big job, then we're going to knock this out very, very quickly. Does that make sense? Yes. And you have, you're telling me you got about six or eight thousand in savings yes i do yeah i'm not gonna start your total money makeover

till you graduate and start your job because it's only a couple months away and i'm just gonna sit there and let's make sure you graduate with no more debt. That's the big thing. Should I focus on trying to pay down the student loan debt before I graduate so that it doesn't accrue interest? If you have extra money. But I shouldn't spend my savings on that, is what you're saying? That's what I'm saying. I think I want your savings there as a buffer to get you out of school. I mean, you got two little ones.

I'd write a check and get rid of those two little ones today. $600 worth, three each, right? Yeah. Yeah, and then you've got $3,000 on the other two. And I'd sit on that six and let's get on out of school and pay the minimum payments. And when you come out of school, as soon as you land your job, write a check. Be debt-free. Okay.

All right. write a check be debt free okay all right but i i'm i'm worried if we whittle this down to nothing then you're going to call me back and say well i almost made it and then i took out a student loan yeah that's what i was worried about as well is not having anything to pay the bills when i graduate and may not have a job well you're going to get a job doing something you You may not be in your field, but, I mean, you're working now, so you're not afraid of work. And you could start applying before graduation for some of the jobs in your area. I've been applying since October. I haven't found anything.

Good, good, okay. So what is your dream job with a graduate degree in? Wildlife biology. I would like to work for the state. with a graduate degree in wildlife biology? I'd like to work for the state. I know that that's not very common, but I changed my major when I was a freshman because my mother passed away, and I figured that if life's so short,

you might as well invest in something that you're going to enjoy rather than something that's going to make you rich. So that's really to make you rich. So that's really my job is to work for the state in wildlife biology and really enjoy it. Okay. All right. Well, if you don't get on in South Carolina, it may be North Carolina, Tennessee, or Georgia, right?

Yeah. Yeah. I've been looking at other states too. Good. So, I mean, you got, you're going gonna have to make some choices there but uh because i want you to get the utilization of this degree that you've worked so hard for and paid so much for and so let's get that direction as well but i'm fine with just knocking out the little ones yeah using cash whatever she has left over to pay those off i'm not mad at that

andrea is in fort lauderdale hi andrea you? Hello, I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for taking my call. Sure, what's up? I am calling because my husband and I, we purchased in 2021 a one-bedroom, one-bathroom condo for $140,000, which is now worth about $230,000. Awesome. We have our first child on the way. Yay! And we're about $86,000 in debt. So we're eventually going to need more space.

So we're thinking, should we sell and use the profit from the sale to wipe out most of the debt? Or should we wait? Because once the baby comes, I'm going to be a stay-at-home mom for a short season. Or should we wait until I rejoin the workforce? And then, you know, once we're really needing the space, make that move. What's your incomes? Currently combined, we bring in about $80 to $90.

And how much of that is yours? About half. I'm working part-time right now because I had it rough in the first trimester, but I'm feeling better now, so starting in February, I'm going to go back to full-time. So we should be at around 100 combined all right so a couple of options to in my mind stick out um you you want to be careful in whatever analysis you do that you don't analyze it through a child that is 18 inches long true that that. They don't take up much space. Okay? So true.

They take up a lot of emotional and spiritual space, but they don't take up much space for a while. They don't even use half the stuff that you get until later on. So, you know, you could live in the condo for a little while and just pay off the debt. That is a valid option. I know it's a one-bedroom, but, again, they don't take up much space. So lots of people have done that in humanity's history.

So then the other thing you could do is you could sell the condo early in your pregnancy because you don't want to be moving late in a pregnancy. That is not fun. You're going to be really unhappy if you're doing that and that means everybody around you is going to be unhappy so uh you can sell the condo pay off all the debt and rent for a little while until you can build up some money for a down payment so maybe rent for a year or more and you could rent something that's a two-bedroom because right now our mortgage with taxes, HOA, and everything is about $1,400.

And rent right now, currently, two one and two two apartments are going for about $1,750 to $2,000. Listen, if I'm you in that market, Fort Lauderdale's crazy. Miami's crazy. Oh, yeah. I'm looking at what Dave said first off. That would be mine because your condo is only going up in value. I would, you know, I'd sit there until the baby's a year old, and then I would be, and I'd knock as much of the debt out as I can. Then I'd be selling it, knocking out the rest of the debt using the balance of the money for your down payment on your next deal.

Okay. That's what I would do. I mean, I'd have a bassinet in there and just deal with it. Yeah, that's just about what we can fit. cannot fit a regular size group but a bassinet yeah we can yeah and you know again they don't take up a lot of room for a long long time i mean there's there's lots of more luxurious situations you can be in with a new baby but that's not a bad situation in their case though their condo could appreciate faster than they are saving a down payment oh that's true you know that market's nuts that market is bananas you just spoke there

you well you moved from there but you spoke there at your old church last weekend i did church by the glades yeah yeah big dave's church so there we go not this day the other one the other one you've worked for dave a lot i do that's what i do collect daves i love it this is the ramsey show Thank you. you