The Ramsey Show - App - This Is What Freedom Sounds Like!

Episode Date: September 16, 2024

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Dr. John Deloney, number one best-selling author and host of the Dr. John Deloney Show, is my co-host today. We're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. The call is free, and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. Don't believe me? Read Reddit. There we go. Ah, good to be back on the microphone. If those of you that don't care or didn't know, I've been gone for about four weeks goofing off. Because I'm 64 years old, why wouldn't I?

So I went to Turkey on a two-week Bible study of the seven churches of Revelation, and then changed the, completely flipped it over, flew to Edinburgh and played golf for two weeks in Scotland with my wife on all of that. And so we've had a blast, and we're glad to be back home. We loved Turkey. The people of Turkey are wonderful. We love Scottish people. We've always loved Scotland. A lot of fun, but we really love america and it's good to be home america so um you know every time i travel i do meet nice people i don't have trouble finding good people in any country there's very few countries i just despise john yeah there's there's just when you get out there's good people get off the screens there's good people everywhere yeah yeah it was great. I enjoyed the Scottish.

It was a lot of fun and had some great discussions with those guys. They're a lot of fun. The Okadis are great. Oh, I bet. And certainly all the Bible stuff we did in Turkey was off the chain. But it was really good to be back with you guys. Phone number 888-825-5225. Susan's in Kansas City.

Hi, Susan. How can we help? I am looking for wonderful advice as a way that I can help out my husband. He worked in pharmaceutical chemistry with a bachelor's and a Ph.D., worked for 15 years, got laid off in 2011, and he's never gotten a job since. It's been really challenging. Whoa. When he was laid off yeah big time his layoff coincided with obamacare being launched and pushed to get all sorts of pharmaceuticals down to generic price so it made research really hard to be profitable in the u.s

and of course the financial crisis had started in 2008. So there were thousands of chemists of his caliber looking for jobs. He looked all over the United States. We were willing to move. We had followed his career previously. And I had been a stay-at-home parent. But when he was two years out of having a job, I went back in and I got a full-time job and rebuilt my career, which has been really helpful. But it hasn't replaced his earnings because my bachelor's degree earnings do not equal PhD earnings in chemistry. Apparently they do. Yeah, they do. They far exceed it. Well, I guess in that case, yep, you're right. What I want to do is figure out how I can help him out. I've helped him to seek counseling when he was really down and having depression after being laid off, helped him seek medical help. We've even moved halfway across the

country from the East Coast back to the Midwest so we can be closer to family and have a lower cost of living. But I don't think that he is actively seeking different ways to look for jobs. We have enlisted a resume service way back 10 years ago, and he signed up for some online job seminars, and that was right at the beginning of 2020. Hey, Susan. It was all about networking. I'm sorry to interrupt you.

This has nothing to do with the mechanics of finding a job. Okay. He doesn't want to work. It's really hard. I do accept that concept. I know. I hear from him that he does, but I don't see him taking the steps. But behavior is a language.

Behavior is a language. What's he been telling you for a decade? His behavior for a decade is, I don't work. I don't work. That's the answer to John's question. And his behavior for a decade is, I know that you're scared. I. That's the answer to John's question. And his behavior for a decade is I know that you're scared and I know you're exhausted

and you're freaked out about bills. You go do something about it. I'm not going to. And here's why I don't have a lot of compassion. I know too many people of my personal friends who have PhDs who got laid off

and they are at the grocery store or they're at Walmart throwing boxes in the interim because they have families and they have commitments that they've made. They have responsibilities. Absolutely.

I also have friends who've been in the throes of depression and have worked like you wouldn't believe to work themselves out, and six months, one year later, they're doing something. And I've encouraged him to take any kind of an entry-level basic job just to get back into working. That's right. And he's not been actively doing that. I did.

That's how I got into my job, and now I've got a fabulous business. Well, Susan, that's what normal people do. Yeah. Yeah. And when you're broke and you don't have work and you can't find work in your field, you take a job. Right. And then you keep trying to work your way back into your field, maybe,

but you take a job. And there's no excuses or reason that goes for 13 years unless he's mentally disabled or physically disabled. And even then, I think he could probably have been doing something. I agree. I'm not sure what I can do other than get out. I don't know that you can do anything. You've done a lot already.

The only thing i would um so my friend henry cloud tells a story um about a guy who tried to help his son get through college and he kept getting thrown out because he was smoking weed or whatever and the guy get him back into another college he get thrown out get him back into another college and get thrown out and um the guy said to henry he goes i gotta tell you about my son's problems and he goes your son doesn't have any problems his dad takes care of everything and he smokes weed your son doesn't have any trouble he goes you're the one's got problems you have a son that's misbehaving and my job is to help you help your son have some problems because your son is being taken care of by his trust fund daddy.

And in a sense, Susan, I know you're a kind, sweet person. I can hear it in your voice and the way you've described this. I want somehow someone in your husband's life to help him have some problems that gets him off his butt. Yeah, we have kind of a blessing and kind of a curse for his parents who have both passed away during this whole thing. They left him money, and they were helping support us during the earlier parts of his unemployment.

So he doesn't see a need to get something, or we're going to be on the street living in a box. So here's the problem, and I'll say what John's getting to say ahead of him because I know what he's going to say. You're losing respect for your husband. Yes. And it's going to cost you your marriage. It could.

And he needs to know that. He doesn't believe that, and he doesn't know that. Because this isn't about resumes. This is not about getting up off your butt. What mom left us or dad left us in the trust fund it's about none of that this is you having the courage to say after 10 years i do not respect the man that i share a bed with and he he has a right i believe to know that and it's about contribution and purpose yeah and it's taking us down a road that i don't want to go down honey

which is that we're not going to end up married. And so we're going to go see a marriage counselor and you're going to go get a job doing something in the next 30 days, or you are contributing to the end of our marriage. That's what a marriage counselor is going to teach you to say. We're not telling you to say two marriage counselors and it has not been successful but maybe we need another person yeah you need somebody to get up and consult yeah i've even consulted a lawyer and i found that i would have to pay him alimony yep despite putting him through two graduate degrees because he went back during this got another graduate degree at very little cost because i happened to work where he got the degree. I hate this for you.

I hate this for you. It shouldn't be this way. It's not right. It's wrong. But it's not going to get better until someone moves him. He's stuck. And somebody's going to have to love him enough to knock him out of the ditch because he ain't climbing out.

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Judy is in Los Angeles. Hi, Judy. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi. I am a long-time listener and a first-time caller. Okay. I'm on Baby Step 6, and I listen to your show all the time, and you recommend never to co-sign for someone, but I'm in this situation.

What I do want to co-sign for somebody under a certain circumstance. So my, my, my husband's cousin, first cousin, she's been on section eight anyway, she lost that. Now she's in her sixtiess she needs to get an apartment there's a special needs trust that her parents have set up for her and in order for her to get into an apartment um she needs to have someone co-sign or her brother who is the trustee refused to do so and i was wondering warning warning why would her brother okay who loves her more than you do he's her brother for God's sakes not want to

cosign he doesn't love her oh yeah doesn't mind if she goes home yes no that's true I don't believe it's totally true it's from a very dysfunctional family he's not willing his wife is telling me he's willing to let her go homeless if they have to. There is more to this story than you are telling or believing. Well, she has a problem. She has personality disorder. Oh, okay. That's right.

She's in her 60s. She's never worked in her life. She always sits on Section 8. She's in her 60s. She's never worked in her life. She always worked in Section 8. She lost that. Who is the custodian of this, of the Special Needs Trust? Her brother. Her brother. So will you have access to the funds for this apartment?

Or does she have access to the funds? Right. So what I'm going to ask, if it's okay, if that works, if you agree that it's the right thing for me to do. No, it's not. So I can try to ask the brother for 14 months of pay in an account to me, and then I will transfer that to her monthly. Is that okay? If funding is available for a whole year, is it safe for me to co-sign?

No. What if she trashes the place? Well, she won't trash the place, but she might, you know. No, she's not like that, but she might have trouble with neighbors. That's the kind of problem she has. Or gets kicked out or has four people over or gets sweet-talked. No, if she won't have people over, she'll just like, she loves cats. She'll probably, you know, take care of them.

Break all the rules. Rules don't apply to her. Yeah, that type all the rules rules don't apply to her rules don't apply to her yeah and judy we're gonna tell you no if this money's available then she can get the apartment under her name you can write the checks every month for her if she can't do that that's fine but you don't need to co-sign but how do i prove to the apartment people that there's money available? Well, you would have to have the money available. Yeah, print off a statement. Did I show them?

What do I do? Because we're in California. There's a lot of these places, and I don't live in the same town as she does. So it's not easy for me to take her somewhere and talk to someone. Well, you get on the phone with the apartment manager, and you say this is what's going on. She has a special needs trust.

Brother's going to send you documentation. He's going to end the documentation, send it to the property manager and say, we'll set aside the first 14 months and go ahead and just prepay the rent for 14 months. That's fine too. Oh, just prepay. Yeah. But you don't co-sign. And they're going to try to get you to cosign.

Because you have a blind spot here, kiddo. This lady, she's gotten a hold of your heart, and she's sweet, and she does need someone to help her, but we need to define help very carefully. Help involves her behaving, and you're not willing to make that requirement, nor can you make that guarantee based on her 60 years of misbehavior right you're going to get screwed if you do this please don't do it okay it's going to go up in flames okay so i told the apartment that i have money but i need to show some proof right that the trust yeah the

brother's gonna have to send documentation yeah and by the way you don't have this money judy you still have to go through a guy that you say doesn't even love her doesn't care about her doesn't care if she ends up on the street right so all of this is like two hypotheticals removed from reality and let me help you with this okay it's not that he doesn't love her it's from the 16 times he tried to help her and it burned him and he's done being burned so he's putting up a boundary that's different than not loving and you got you're calling it not love in a dysfunctional family i'm calling her a dysfunctional person who needs love and help but has burned everything around her to the ground

to the point her own brother won't help her. You can't put that on him. I'm not going to let you do it. I don't even know him, and I'm not going to let – he's not the jerk in this story. Okay? And there's not a jerk in this story. There's a sad lady with mental illness, and you're going to get burned to the ground when her mental illness activates if you're signed on the documents yeah i don't sign just i don't know an apartment complex it

won't take your check if if you got it so if they won't take your money so she can get her own place listen i'm a landlord if i know what's going on here i'm not putting her in there that's fair that's fair because prepaying the rent ain't half my problem it's the 93 cats that end up in my building right or all the neighbors or whatever or she burns the neighbor's cat live in the front yard i don't know what's going to happen here i don't know i don't know what's going on with her no i don't want her as a tenant under any circumstances co-signer prepaid double paid no thank you yeah life's too short to sign up for drama as a landlord so that's what you're gonna that's what you're going to, that's what you're going to face on more than anything else. So you're please, honey, don't, don't confuse this. And you you're trying to do a nice, good, noble thing in a really, um, naive and unwise way. That was, that was kind.

Yeah. That's the best way to say it. And I think this is a bigger conversation, Dave, when you want to help somebody and you get all these scenarios in your mind, and then you spend all these nights and weeks worrying about it, all of this phone call could have been already headed off. You could have already sat down with your brother. You could have already called an apartment complex and taken all these worrying variables off the table so that you know, okay, here's the final step here. And you probably would have found out a long time ago, you either don't need to be a cosigner or nobody's going to let her live there.

You're going to have to come up with another option, right? But it's always like, well, then I might do this. And then after that, I'm going to do this. You don't even know if all this is going to happen. And you're so spun up about it. Just go find out. Go find out. I cosigned for stuff when I was young and foolish

and I ended up paying it. One poor guy cosigned for me. I went bankrupt. He ended up paying it. I had to go back and pay for me. I went bankrupt. He ended up paying it. I had to go back and pay him later. His wife still don't like me. Yeah. 35 years later.

So it's okay. It's valid. I mean, she got screwed. They didn't ultimately get it, but I mean, she thought she did. And so I get it. I completely get it. Proverbs 17, 18 says in the scripture, one lacking in sense co-signs for another. When I co-signed, judy i was lacking in sense if you co-sign this the

bible says you're lacking in sense i didn't say i get mad at god don't do it i wasn't that was that was pretty good i mean you you kind of brought the bible out so there you go there we go brought the bible out yeah that that's the final right that's the final one that's the one open phones at triple eight eight825-5225. Kim is in New York. Hi, Kim. How are you? Hi. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up?

So I wanted to know how to save money for a mortgage-owned payment while you're paying rent. Very hard. It is. Yeah. How much debt have you got? I can go through the numbers and I can tell you. Just how much debt have you got? Just give me the total.

I want to say about $40,000. How much of that's your car? Well, to me, my husband's together. It's about he owes I owe $16,000 and he owes about $20 he owes about 20 okay how much is the car my car total with the insurance just insurance or just the car no the debt on the car how much

debt is on the car about 16 okay of your 4040. Yeah, of your $40. So half of it's your car. Okay. So here's the simple answer, but it's not a simple answer, is when you don't have any debt payments, you'll have more room in your budget. So before you start worrying about saving for a down payment on a house, let's clear the debt off. That may mean selling a car.

It may mean taking an extra job. It will mean not eating out. It will mean not going on vacation so that I can get out of debt. Because if you didn't have any payments, oh, you'd have money to save for your down payment. That's where it comes from. Your most powerful wealth building tool is your income. Don't give it to somebody else, and then you'll have it to save for a down payment. Simple but hard. This is The Ramsey Show.

Hey, George Campbell here with a not-so-fun fact. Every American social security number, including our children's, has been hacked and is now on the dark web. And this is not a scare tactic. This isn't fear-mongering. It's a reality that could turn into a nightmare for a lot of people. And believe me, I've been a victim of identity theft, and I would prefer it never happen again. Because once the bad guys have your social,

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you know what we never had a single budget committee meeting that with the children i'm just saying all right there will also be a q a so rachel and john can answer your questions live this is happening october 29th you can attend from anywhere from the comfort of your own living room. You don't want to miss this one night to refresh your connection and communication. It's 39 bucks is all. It goes up after October 6th, a couple of weeks from now. You can get your tickets at ramsaysolutions.com slash events, money, and marriage date night virtual from your home on October 29 29th john you and rachel this will let me tell you guys if you don't know the two of them just sitting back here in the

office are a riot and then we put on a microphone and add a little adrenaline to it uh just for you guys there are definitely two riots looking for a place to happen. And so it's worth the – if you just like good comedy, you will enjoy this because they're a lot of fun, both of them. They're both very quick-witted. Very opinionated. And very opinionated, and they're right and all that. She's not always right, Dave. They'll help you.

No, she's definitely not always right. But the – I'm just thinking about – oh, well. Anyway, yeah, rachel cruz my daughter and dr john deloney october the 29th only 39 ticket prices will go up soon go to ramsay solutions.com slash events it is a money and marriage date night there will be serious stuff i'm not i'm i don't want to overstate the comedy part it's it's a very serious topic they're going to go through the details. They're going to give you something for your money, give you something for your marriage,

and give you something for both of those things working together. Don't miss it. David is in Knoxville. Hi, David. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hello. Hi. What's up?

Well, my financial advisor has recommended that we shift. I mean, we have historically just invested in mutual funds, as you've recommended, but that we shift some money to a separate managed account. And just kind of wanted your opinion on that. Well, a managed account in financial advisor's parlance is mutual funds? Well, some of this was individual stocks. Okay. Well, you can do that in a managed account.

Well, that was... Yeah, I would not do that. I do not do that. And I know more about individual stocks than your financial advisor does. So... Right. And I'm not doing that. So no, thank you. But a managed account, most of the finance under the new fiduciary rules that came out

about three years ago, ERISA just, and the SEC just tore up that industry. And so most of the accounts are now managed accounts, meaning you pay like 1% of the portfolio a year and they manage the entire portfolio and it can be a portfolio of mutual funds and that's what most of our uh smart investor pros use now now we do not recommend using uh single stocks in that but you can use that approach for mutual funds only is my point okay so um but it you know let me let me tell you the downside and i'm i'm being critical because and i don't know your guy so i could be overstating this when a financial advisor says he can manage stocks better than a billion dollar mutual fund can manage the exact same stocks inside the mutual

fund that screams of arrogance to me right again i know enough about it that i could easily make that case that i was going to do that but all the data and all the research that i have says i will not outperform the mutual fund with my little single stock portfolio with my little mute with my little financial advisor in knoxville tennessee as my uh as my stock picker. No, thank you. I'll pass. But if he wants to do the other stuff, and I would be worried about that in terms of your relationship with him personally, but if he wants to run mutual funds, my guy runs managed accounts. I don't personally do that with mine because I'm old school

and I've got all my stuff set up, but all my kids run managed accounts with our local SmartVestor Pro. But it's all mutual funds in there. Is it a red flag if you get an out-of-the-blue call from your advisor saying, hey, I'm recommending we move it all to X, Y, and Z? Because the word on the street is that a managed care managed account yeah managed account advisor will move you to packages where there's some sort of kickback or they get an extra incentive to do so kind of like on a lot they'll move so if they can't they can do that and some of them will but but it is a red flag

if somebody starts moving big chunks around because it says that the original thing that they believe they no longer believe so this is a it's a philosophical statement sometimes yeah it is okay all right it is it's it's um there's something new that beats all of the data that we have and i first you know i don't believe it okay yeah so um you know all the data that we have the average person buying and selling stocks on their own account with their own financial advisor loses money. You can't compete. They lose money.

They not only don't make money, they lose money on average. That's the data. That's actual research. And so years ago, the Wall Street Journal did a funny article that they actually did this. They took, the problem is the lack of diversification. Because you're picking seven stocks instead of 90 to 200. Mutual fund has 90 to 200 stocks in it, which gives you a lot of safety. Versus if you've got to pick five or three, you're betting the farm on a very narrow ledge here.

Okay? So they actually took a monkey and blindfolded the monkey and gave it darts and it threw it at the wall and hit stocks. And they picked those stocks and then they gave the uh the stock pickers the right to go pick any three stocks they wanted to pick and come back 18 months later the blindfolded monkey beat most of them point being not that the guys are stupid these are smart people picking these stocks but when you can only pick three and a mutual fund can have 90 to 200 your safety level goes away you lose all the power of diversification and uh there's an arrogance to it that says i can pick the stocks

better than a guy running an american funds or a fidelity or a whatever name whatever big well now it's you sitting in your house thinking or some guy thinking i can beat these supercomputers with all the ai tech like you can't you can't exactly exactly so the thing is yeah that you know like for instance in a mutual fund they'll have um a whole team of researchers right you have one guy or gal that comes to work in a car longer than your house and their only job is to study every detail of the automotive industry all day long for the last 25 years or they've sent some guy who lives in south africa for two years in a in a in a mine talking to the transactions and you can't beat that and you know and you're going to compete with that with your guy in knoxville tennessee right no you're not

yeah or nashville tennessee or Los Angeles, or New York. So because of the specialization of that, the nuances of that, those guys, that guy knows more about the automotive industry than I know. I mean, he's going to pick a better automotive stock and know when to get in and out of Ford based on EVs, or whether or not Tesla is going to burn up or not, literally, metaphorically, or whatever. And so, you you know all of that he's got he's got his finger on all that and you know so the mutual funds are just they've got the best people on the planet and they've got a track record and that shows it and they've got some they've got some a net they've got that you can spread it out yeah it's spread out spread your portions to seven yes to eight for disaster may

come upon the land ecclesiastes all right ah freedom and you're dropping bible all day today freedom like you've been on a bible trip for the last three weeks almost did yeah phoenix arizona freedom's with us hi freedom oh nope you're not with us at all because we're going into a break see what happens when you don't when you don't work for a while you don't even know where commercial breaks are that's how that works all right that like we're driving, and I'm talking to my friend, and you're just looking straight over at the exit. No, you're just looking right at the passenger, and the passenger's like, hey, look, red light, red light, red light.

You're just talking, all excited, quoting scriptures. Here it comes. Here it comes. Dropping Ecclesiastes right in there, heading straight into commercial break. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys. I'm not a fan of the big banks, and you probably already know which ones I mean. But I do like credit unions because they're nonprofit organizations that focus on their members.

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so when you are delinquent nana or uncle joe is drowning with. But there is a way out. Y-Refi refinances defaulted private student loans other places won't touch, and they give you a low fixed-rate loan built for you. Go to Y-Refi.com slash Ramsey today. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey might not be available in all states. All right, today's question comes from Courtney in Washington. Courtney writes, I'm 23 and I've been married for one year. Last night he admitted to me that I'm assuming husband. My husband admitted to me that I'm better with money, meaning I don't like debt, and that he

spends more than he makes. He gave me his credit card and debit card to hold and asked me to give him an allowance for necessary purchases. He has a bad habit of using credit payment plans and buying too many toys. I don't like the idea of holding his cards and controlling his actions. I understand accountability partnership, but I believe putting limitations on a full-grown man will lead to resentment in our marriage, even if he asks for for it is his asking me to hold his cards reasonable if i do hold his cards for a period what can i do to make those spending habits stay gone how do you get so wise at 23 years old courtney you are courtney it's not about saying the same thing man touchdown who is this person it's amazing wow so i ate i want to

give i want to give uh I had this exact conversation. I was probably 26, maybe 25. Like, I see the trajectory. I see the things that plagued my family growing up. And I'm on the track. And it was kind of like, I need you to drive. Now, in retrospect, I understand that that started a power struggle between me and my wife that lasted years and years and years. And so I like, I'm happy for this dude that he was like, i'm not doing this right i like his humility yes there you go that's the

beginning of repentance gotta do this thing together gotta do just gotta do it together yeah um yeah i'll start with that what do you think man i think it's exactly right i mean she's on to something here she doesn't want to have a she doesn't want to be his mommy it's his mom that's it she wants to be his wife and by the way husbands it is very hard to be for your mom to be romantically interested in you and when you expect your wife to mother you it does something to the desire and eros in your home don't do that right work together he can a cut up the credit card and put his debit card in a drawer and get cash carry that and the two of you start doing a budget together and you pinky swear and spit shake that that's a contract

and i'm sticking to this and that's my accountability we are going to work together not uh because no one should be doing it by themselves that's right or he can um he can text you and uh every time he feels like making a purchase just as a way to extend the gap. No, if it's in the budget, you can make the purchase. No, no, no, but when he's about to impulse buy, not in the budget. You can't buy it if it's not in the budget. No, no, I just want him to identify, oh, I'm about to do something stupid. Yeah.

And it's just extending that gap between stimulus and response. You can do some of those kind of things. I did hand, I mean, here's the deal. It's about putting in hurdles. But yeah, I love her sense that she already feels like, hey, I'm going to end up as mom. I don't like this. Yeah. Yeah, that's the deal. It's about putting in hurdles, but yeah, I love her sense that she already feels like, Hey, I'm gonna end up as mom. I don't like this. Yeah. Now that's very wise way ahead. Yeah. The answer is no, I'm not gonna take this over for you, but yes, we're going to work together. And yes, as two grownups, we're going to agree on a plan

that serves our future and serves our present and serves our household and serves our marriage. And then we're going to stick to that plan as two adults. And when one of us that has an inner child wakes up and wants to go crazy at Costco, you have to stick to the plan. That's right. Because there's hell to pay if you don't stick to the plan. Right. And define what hell is, right?

Hell is you go home and you didn't stick to the plan. And your spouse is not going to be happy with you. And I think it's an important call. I have told people just give your credit card or give your debit card to your spouse. I was wrong on that. I don't think that's wise. I think what's wiser is if you can't control it, then let's cut up both cards and you carry cash for a while. And go get one reissued when you're ready.

Well, here's the thing. What you need is a reason to control it. When you have no boundary, nothing is written down, then everything's okay. And that includes the 92 gallon thing of mustard at Costco, which everyone needs, we know that. Drum of mustard. Apparently, because you can get it on a two-wheeler, right? And so, but we impulse stupid butt stuff mainly because we don't have A, any price to pay if we do it, and and b there was nothing in line

before we got there it's like i used to tell my kids you know about premarital sex i said okay we're going to sit down and we're going to have a discussion before you end up in the back seat because if you don't decide before you end up in the back seat it's over when you get to the back seat that's right so you got to decide before you get to costco what you're going to spend and i'm not against costco i like costco we're actually an endorser of theirs but uh you know before you get to the restaurant before you get to whatever and so you don't come home with a new bass boat and go look what i did honey can i tell you as a as a former impulse, just a clicker and buyer. I am too.

I have to deal with the fact that I was creating a life where I wasn't very alive. Yeah. And if it wasn't that, I was flipping channels. It was just a kind of life. Yeah. Well, it's dull. And when I address that, how can I inject some life into my life? Dude, I don't think about it that way.

I remember the first time I went to Sam's and got out without buying anything i thought it was like a spiritual victory i know dave's out in the parking lot i'm like i did it i got in and out didn't buy anything if we're celebrating i went into home depot the other day didn't have what i wanted i walked out and buy one thing you didn't even buy a tool that was a huge huge that huge moment for me. That's a breakthrough. That's a breakthrough, John. I'm proud of you. It was good. My name is John, and I like tools. That's the thing, guys. But when you have a plan, and here's what changed it for me.

It's like, okay, I want a good future. I want a good marriage. I want to be in agreement with my spouse more than anything Costco has. That's the key. And when it's written down and i made a promise i can't break my promise and if you're getting itchy i don't get itchy to break my promise underneath it doesn't come up i really don't now if i get itchy i just go i can't do it it's not in the plan yeah i gotta go do something else because the plan supersedes the itch i like

it you know the contract with my wife the word i gave to her that this is what we're going to spend our money on so that we freaking have a future that's it now that contract means a whole lot more than that stupid item that's it but you don't have anything to gauge that item against like that boundary then the and then all is fair you just buy everything yep and the same thing's true your stupid amazon button click click click click click submit submit submit empty the cart into your dadgum front porch and there's nothing in your life that's telling you no there's no budget there's no plan there's you know i can just go make some more money i'll out earn my stupidity submit submit submit isn't it interesting that the word is submit submit

yeah i mean it's uh they think it's a good bow down bow down deeply and submit to the amazon god there's a great uh instagram uh reel where there's a guy watching his wife and she's doing yard work or something and it just is it's slowly panning and he he said, my goodness, I won the lottery with the most amazing, hardworking, beautiful, and it pans to the front porch, and it's just stacked up with boxes. And he's like, good God. That's pretty good. Yeah, it was pretty great.

It was good. So, yeah, Courtney, kudos to you at 23 to grasp a very, very good concept. Humility and wisdom already in this young marriage. Kudos to him for being humble enough to go at 23, man, that's a, that's a big manly thing to do to say, I can't do this by myself. Cause a lot of 23 year olds desperately don't want to look like a little boy. And he, he walked in there like a man and said, I need some help. And he turned, he did the wrong thing and you, you got onto that, but he did the, he did it for the right thing. And you got on to that. But he did it for the right reasons.

And you guys have the ingredients of an incredibly powerful marriage that becomes very wealthy. And you've got it at a young age. So congratulations. That's a great question. Really, really good. So learning to work together. And I got to tell you, there's certain segments of our culture certain demographics uh certain races certain things where it's not unusual that that mama

pays the bills and daddy brings home the bacon and i'm stepping all in that stuff for some of you because you watched your mama do it it doesn't mean it's right or the other side daddy does it all mom doesn't ask any questions right sharon kind of had the um i called it scarlet o'hara syndrome it's like do whatever you want to do honey and if the children don't have clothes we'll just use the drapery it's like you gotta work together you gotta work together scarlet o'hara syndrome there it is gotta work together. Remember, Scarlett made stuff out of the drape shell. You've got to work together. Scarlett O'Hara syndrome. There it is. Got to work together. This is The Ramsey Show.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, amazing relationships. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, host of The Dr. John Deloney Show, PhD in counseling, that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, host of the Dr. John Deloney Show, PhD in Counseling. He's our Ramsey Personality that is my co-host today. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. The phone number here is 888-825-5225. Freedom is with us in Phoenix, Arizona. Hi, Freedom. How are you?

I'm pretty good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I am a baby brand new business owner. I opened up a concrete company and I was just wondering if I should finance a work truck or some heavy equipment or if I

should just keep grinding and little by little and pay for it by cash. Okay. Well, Freedom, if you listen to the show much, you know we tell people not to borrow money, and we don't borrow money. You already knew that before you called, right? Yes, sir. Okay.

And I run a business. I run a business called Ramsey Solutions that started on my card table 32 years ago in my living room. And we're sitting in a building and a campus that's worth somewhere around $600 million, and we have never borrowed a dime over that 30 years. We've just taken our profits and reinvested and hustled and grinded, taken our profits and reinvested. The benefits of that, the downside of that is everything goes slower. The benefit is you don't have to do it over because you don't crash every three years every time something goes upside down.

And so I don't take many steps backwards. All my steps are forward because I don't borrow money and so i never get pinched covid comes along i didn't get pinched i have no debt and a pile of cash i didn't get pinched other people doing what i'm doing are out of business because they couldn't cash flow their payroll when the government shut them down okay and so you got to pay those payments on that bulldozer dude whether you can use it or not because well i was going to say weather but in phoenix there's no issue but yeah it's not like it's going to be a rain problem for you but anyway the uh but yeah something else happens um goes sideways in a maybe a presidential

election and the market slowed down or something and you couldn't get work you got to pay the payments anyway on that dozer and it'll take you down so i would tell you to grow slower and more sure-footed some people would call it sustainable and i would just use your your name as my guidance i don't want to give up my freedom i don't but it's frustrating as a business owner i will tell you there's been times over the years that I wanted to do something that I really, really, really thought was a good idea business-wise, and I didn't have the money. And I couldn't do it because I don't borrow money.

But then something come along six months later that will make me know, oh, that's why I wasn't able to do that. I would have been up at Dadgum Creek if I had done that. And the other thing that happens when you borrow money in business, how long have you been doing this? Concrete? I just opened it up like a month ago. Okay. So you've got

a lot of energy and enthusiasm right now, right? Yes, but I'm very I'm starting to get a little discouraged because it is just me. I'm just a one-man guy trying to do a three-man job. That's the hardest part of business until you get up. You get up to about 10 people where other people are doing some of the work.

It's nice, I'll tell you ahead of time. But even borrowing money into that won't work because you'll go sideways. So here's what happens. Let me ask you this. As an entrepreneur, I'm a fellow entrepreneur, every morning when I take my dog for a walk on the golf course, every morning when you take my dog for a walk on the golf course, every morning when you take a shower, those of us that are entrepreneurs have six or 700 ideas by the time we get to

work. I got an idea a minute. Do you every, every hour? Okay, there you go. All right.

So I can tell you from 30 years of doing this, that 90% of my brilliant early morning cup of coffee ideas when implemented suck. I have survived in business. 90% of my ideas. I've made everything that you've heard of Dave Ramsey, all the money, all the brand recognition, all the celebrity or whatever it is you want to call this crap that I do. I've done all of it on about 10 of ideas you guys all know me for the 10 that worked if i had borrowed money on the 90 that didn't work i would be buried in bankruptcy many times over

because when you borrow money you magnify your stupidity. And that's what's coming. So please, I'm giving you my best sales pitch. I bought it. I bought it. Please don't give up your freedom. Please move a little slower. Go make you some money.

Bust it. Bust it. Bust it. Get you some hires where you're not doing it by yourself. Get you a piece. Rent a piece of equipment. Turn it back in. rent a piece of equipment, turn it back in, rent a piece of equipment, turn it back in, and then go buy you a used one that the guy who went into debt

had to turn into the repo lot. And go buy you a used one off the repo lot for the last guy that thought he had a great idea in your world. And it's everything, man. It's everything. It changes. 80% of small businesses fail in the first five years, and the number one reason for failure, they say, is cash flow.

Cash flow is starved by two possible things in small business, not paying your freaking taxes and setting your sales tax aside and going in debt and having payments. When you have payments and no revenue, that's called cash flow problems, and you go out of business. It returns your dream into a nightmare. I think the best, as I travel around the country the last four or five years and meeting small business owners especially.

We see them all the time with Entrez. All the time. Entrez leadership. To a person who runs their business like this, there's this, it's the Bubba Gump shrimp scenario that when they don't have any payments, something comes along, there's a storm of some sort, and they're the only boat left in the harbor.

And they get all of it, right? Yeah. We have Entree leaders come up for special luncheons up here sometimes, and I just hear it over and over, we're the only ones in my neighborhood or my city that made it through COVID on this particular weird little niche. Now we have all the market share. And you've got all their employees.

We've got everybody. All the expertise. We've got the handpick. That's right. The best ones. We buy their equipment at pennies on the dollar. So it's like you drive a minivan and drive a minivan and drive a minivan. Then you get it all.

I've done it over and over and over again over the years. And, you know, the fastest way to get rich quick is don't. Is don't, yeah. But there's a moment you just show up and show up and show up and then a moment happens and you're in the right place. But it is frustrating. So frustrating. It's frustrating because there's something in front of you and everything in your brain says it's going to work and you've got to try it and you've got to try it. And only after it doesn't work do you know why it didn't work yeah and so you don't know what you

don't know and when you borrow into it you magnify your stupidity i've been so tempted so many times i could tell you 25 stories but i don't have time of times that i almost i really really and then eight months later i go oh well there you go protected me again. I thought I was going to go down. And God just, because I always just say, all right, God, if you want me to do this, you've got to send some money because I don't have any. You've got some. And if he doesn't send money, I figure he doesn't want me to do it. Yeah. Ta-da.

That's a person of faith. If you're not a person of faith, you don't have that option. You're just kind of yelling at the sky at that point. But in my case, I truly believe God owns this, and I truly believe if he wants us to have a computer, he'll give us the money to buy the computer. He wants us to have a building, he'll give us the money to buy the building, a bulldozer, whatever it is.

And until he does, something's not right. Something's not aligned yet, and I'm waiting on that. Frustrates the crud out of me because I really do want to be God, and it's his job. This is The Ramsey Show. There's a time in your life and at the baby steps for renting, but you don't want to do it forever because when you rent, you're still paying for a mortgage just somebody else's. Plus, rent means instability in

your budget because it always goes up, never down. So when you're ready to buy, make sure you work with a mortgage partner you can rely on. Churchill Mortgage. Churchill is Ramsey trusted to help you make the move from renting to home ownership wisely. Churchill understands that when you buy a home the Ramsey way, your mortgage payment will be a consistent, manageable part of your monthly budget. Plus, when your home is paid off, that was your largest expense. Now it's extra money in your pocket and an asset towards turning you into a Baby Steps millionaire. So get started on the American dream of home ownership today at churchhillmortgage.com. That's churchhillmortgage.com.

This is a paid advertisement. NMLS ID 1591. NMLSConsumeraccess.org. Equal housing lender. 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100. RentWin, Tennessee 37027. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. The best way to win at something is to do it on purpose. Very few times do people accidentally win. You don't accidentally become wealthy. You execute a plan step-by-step over a period of time. You don't accidentally have a good marriage. You execute a plan step-by-step over time. You don't accidentally have a good marriage. You execute a plan step by step over time. You don't accidentally raise great kids. It doesn't happen. It's a process. It's an intentional act, this thing called success. And the best way to make the most of your money is by creating and sticking to a plan, a monthly budget. Every dollar,

the world's best budgeting app, makes it simple to plan your spending, a monthly budget, every dollar, the world's best budgeting app makes it simple to plan your spending, track your expenses, follow the baby steps, plan out every paycheck, be in agreement with your spouse, get out of debt. We teach you how to do every bit of it. Download every dollar for free in the app store or Google play and click the link in the description. If you're listening to YouTube or a podcast. Finn is in Detroit. Hi, Finn. Welcome to The Ramsey Show.

Thanks for having me. Sure. What's up? Yeah. So I'm 22. I graduated a year early to not go into debt. I'm looking at a career change into counseling and psychology, so I'm looking at going to grad school for counseling work in clinical psychology. Right now, I have... A career change? Did you even start your other career? No, no. I was interested in... I'm a big photographer, so I was interested in photo journalism and realized that traveling around all the time wasn't that sustainable. Okay, so you've got a degree currently in what? Political science.

Which has nothing to do with any of this. Okay. Yep, yep, yep. All right. Yeah. All right, so you want to go, we need some more good mental health professionals, so good on you. So what are you thinking about doing yeah yeah so i'm interested in a master's in

counseling or social work and have been considering the possibility of trying to get into a doctoral program in clinical psych because those are funded programs now ultimately i need the background and the experience to get into those programs. In the meantime, I've been volunteering in psychology labs. But imagine that if I can get into a master's program, I need the capital to be able to pay for that program. So right now I have about $22,000 saved. Where'd you get that? From saving and working throughout high school

and college. Good for you, man. Well done. What's the master's cost? About $35,000 probably? Depending on the program, you can go for $30,000, you can go for $50,000, you can go for $80,000. A program like University of Michigan costs

$80,000 in-state, which is kind of crazy in my opinion. And then if you go for kind of a lesser-tiered program, but you're still getting the letters next to your name, it can be between $30 and $40. Do you know where the woman that I see for a therapist, you know where she went to school? No. I have no idea. None. Yeah. no I have no idea none yeah when I was at when I was at Belmont University all the therapists

who worked for me there you know they went to school I don't know they're amazing therapists and so my guess is a school like University of Michigan is going to be very research heavy and it's probably funded it's probably got a whole bunch of other steps to it if you want to go be a research psychologist and less about working with people and more about learning statistics and learning about people and spending your life in a lab, be an amazing school to go to. And you'll have to find out one of those funded PhD programs. If you want to just go be a social worker or clinical counselor in your local community, which is an, it, go to the best program in your community that you can afford. And I strongly recommend see if you can get a job at the university

because those almost always come with some sort of tuition discount. And even better, if you can get a job in Residence Life, you get to live your mission. You get to work with all kinds of people going through all kinds of struggles and challenges. It's crazy like a crazy college student. It is wild. But that's their um family issues and their psychology issues and their emotional issues come up and addiction all kind of stuff um but also it comes with free

housing too so that's that'd be what i would recommend you do i want you to go to grad school that's what i did i love it and for my graduate counseling degree, I found the partnership with the university that would fund it. And it was different than my other PhD that I paid for out of pocket. And I borrowed out of pocket. And it nearly buried. How would a university get you those kind of resources? What are you looking for? I'm looking for, in your situation, I'm looking for any job I can get on a college campus that has a tuition reimbursement janitor yeah anything

like you gotcha gotcha gotcha ra yeah resident assistant in the dorm anything you can do if it gives if it gets you in their program and cuts the tuition in half and now you got 30 turning into 15 they're paying you and you've got 22 in the bank ding ding we're done with the masters that's right yeah yeah and at this point like in terms of investments on the site i mean no you don't the best investment you can make is you it's you okay gotcha because here's what i want you to do and here's what you do with investments you're looking for roi sorry john go ahead yeah what's the roi on 80 grand versus 30 grand that's what I want you to do. And here's what you do with investments. You're looking for ROI. Sorry, John. Go ahead. Yeah. What's the ROI on 80 grand versus 30 grand? That's what we're looking at.

What's the return on investment? Okay. John's telling you it's not there on the 80. Yeah. And he's got a PhD in counseling. You just called the right guy. I have a PhD in DUM dumb you don't need my opinion but here's the other thing i want you to do i i want you to go through this program

i started with a very particular group of people that i wanted to work with i ended up in a radically different place because i had to do practicums and internships and i had different professors and i met different professionals along the way. If you get out and you owe $30,000 or $50,000 and you know clinical counselors starting out don't make a ton of money, then you are going to have to do not what you want to do, what you feel passionate about, what you feel called to do. You're going to have to do whatever they tell you to do. And I want you, I want a world of therapists out there that are not beholden to

a bank but are beholden to their communities that's what i really really want because they're free to help everybody and anybody not they have to they have to pay their bills first and that's heartbreaking for me okay yeah yeah so go get a man get that master's degree just don't borrow seem like a person talking to you that $22,000 in the bank. You ran this course already. You knocked out three years. You seem like a person that is very much a pragmatist, very practical in your view on things.

I'm going to encourage you to lean into that. Everything we're telling you to do is right with who you already are. And shoot weddings on the side. Shoot weddings all weekend. You'll make cash. Get your camera out, man. You'll make some money. weddings all saturdays all sundays all friday nights when you're in grad school and just work work work work you'll get it out man good good on you dude that's good that's excellent you'll hear a lot of undergrads coming out with twenty two thousand dollars in cash in

the bank that's fantastic in three years in three years yeah knock it out that's a hard worker he did it to stay out of debt that's right right. Yeah, I wanted out of school. Man, I'd go back tomorrow. I had no desire to stay. I mean, I was working 60 hours a week. All I wanted was out so I could focus on work. And, man, it was so hard. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

John, let's circle back because someone you, someone just tuned into this for the first time, John has a PhD in counseling, a PhD in higher ed, and he was serving as Dean of students, several different universities when he came here. Okay. He was at a local university is how we found him and we knew he could do this job and it's, it's turned into a massive hit. And so, uh, he and I have had this discussion. He's actually featured before we hired him in our documentary on student loan debt called borrowed future that you can watch for free now on YouTube.

So John and I've had this discussion many times I have done. I've searched and searched and searched and searched and cannot find a single piece of research that is that is credible. This is where you went to school is correlated with your level of success in any field. The research that exists there talks about it's less about the institution and more about the people you who also go to that institution so the basically the research says if you can get into some of these top top top top top tier schools where you will benefit over the long haul is who your classmates are because they're going to go start businesses and they're going to go become these fans and they're going to call you because y'all are pals and your buddies and you call the

guys that you know and you went to school with but for the number of times that people say i want a cancer doctor because he went to that school that That's it for 99% of us. Almost zero. Get out untethered. Please go to college, and I'm high on college. You know that, Dave. But go untethered. Get out so you don't owe anybody.

I want a doctor that is not beholden to anyone but what is right. I want a therapist or a pastor who's not beholden to anybody but what is right. There it is. This is The Ramsey Show. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage. Mercy is with us. Hi, Mercy. How are you? I'm doing good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. Where do you live?

I live in Temple, Texas. Cool. Welcome to Nashville. Thank you. And how much debt have you paid off, Mercy? I have paid off $18,000. Good for you. And how long did that take? It took me around nine months, Dave. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? $42,000. $42,000. Okay. And what kind of debt was the 18,000? That was my car, Dave. Yay! All right. Mercy, how old are you? I'm 29 years old. Cool. And what is your country of origin? I hear an accent. Right. I was born and raised in Kenya and I moved to the States three and a half years ago. Three and a half years ago. Yes, sir. And 18 months ago, half that time, you started working on getting no nine

months ago you start getting out of debt you paid off 18 000 in debt so how does a girl in texas from kenya run into the ramsey stuff and decide to get out of debt yeah so i joined the military last year january thank you for your service thank you and then i my first duty station for fort cavazos texas got there and needed a car. And I did what I thought I should do. Got a car on payment. And then I think less than two weeks later, I ran into Rachel on Instagram and I liked her message. So I looked into it and I found the Ramsey show. And ever since that day, I have not missed an episode so i just got fired up this is how i was what you teach is really how i was raised like if you don't have the money you don't buy it

so wait a minute they teach you common sense in kenya wow yeah so i thought you know it just clicked and then the teachings from the bible as well. So that resonated with me. And I decided this debt had to go. And then that's when I just started double the payments, triple living on nothing, rice and beans. And on April 30th, I became debt free. Way to go. I'm so proud of you. Thank you.

Who was cheering you on along the way? So my family in Kenya, my son Jeremy, my family, my American family in Colorado. And then after I became debt-free, I met my boyfriend Tony, who's also doing the Dave Ramsey plan. And he has been cheering me on Baby Step 3 and we here we are today all right yeah very cool way to go tony good stuff good stuff okay tell me how this thing works because you're obviously uh you've been here only three and a half years you joined the military how does that work with your citizenship i don't know uh so once you join first of all you acquire permanent residency

and then that's when you're able to join and serve. And then through the military is when I got my citizenship last year in June. All right. Yes. Awesome. Wow, that's a good deal. Thank you. Very cool.

Good for you. I'm proud of you. How does it feel to be free again? It's weightless. I cannot explain it. Doing my budget every month and not seeing that extra payment that i would have paid the car dealership it just it feels it's surreal like i have so much money and you know yeah that five hundred dollars back is is everything and then i've also been able to

my sister and i are cash flowing my grandmother's house in Kenya. So that has been a blessing. And my grandmother raised us after I lost my mom when I was 10. And that has been a blessing. So you're able to buy her a house now? Yes, we're building a house. You're building it by cash? Yes. Okay.

How long will it take to build it? We're almost done, actually. By December, she'll be in the house. And we started as soon as I right before I became debt free and then it's been more money just chunked on it how old is your grandmother?

close to 80 wow, you're special thank you you're not even real Mercy this is amazing this is so extraordinary You're not even real, Mercy. This is amazing. This is so extraordinary. I mean, Americans, y'all got to hear this.

She just traded an $18,000, $500 car payment and built her grandmother a house as a result in Kenya. That's who raised her. That, you know, hello. That's legacy right there. Wow. What's the the picture what's the house so that's uh that was our whole house that's where you grew up that was that's what i grew up yeah okay i was i think built and now you built her a new house yes all right i'm so proud of you thank you you're amazing that's the new house oh there's oh wow i want to live in that house that's

pretty great look at the roof on that that's very cool those of you that aren't on youtube look deeply into your radio but yeah oh my god so mercy um mercy i i ran track in college and the vast majority of my teammates were from kenya and it was which means you were the slowest guy on the team. Used to call me Mzungu. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. By far. So there was this understanding they got here, and there was so much opportunity and so much wide-eyed. And how can I participate right away, right now? And it feels like this idea that, oh, you can just get it all right now. Don't worry about it.

We'll get it later. That got you the car payment. Yep. Right. So if you don't know how insidious this stuff is everything shiny and new and this isn't just people who come from from other foreign countries this is all of us who are looking at our neighbors looking around we see these shiny new things and we get so taken with them that I want it right now and there's all these plans for oh that's a problem for future you right the you right now needs this right yeah what do you tell somebody that is just

looking around seeing all this opportunity but they don't know that it's not really real right so that's also a big thing that just not uh I think sacrifice for me would be the biggest one just knowing that you know what, it's not, when Dave says you're driving and the guy, the car next to you is really nice and big and you want it, but it's all payments. So that really, I got it and I said, I'm not going to feel jealous or want a life that I cannot afford.

I will do this brick by brick. And yeah, so like you say, we get here and we're told you have to have a credit score. You have to have a credit card. And you know, we all believe that until, because they say that's the only way, but no, it's not the only way. There's a better way. You know, mercy's a hero. You know who the real hero is? The grandmother that raised that. I'm telling you. The grandmother that created that. I'm telling you, man. That woman, that's who we need to get on the air. Sheesh.

It's really amazing. You're amazing. Oh my gosh. This is wonderful. Will you do me and Dave an honor? Yes. Can you do a debt-free scream in Swahili? This will be the first one ever.

Yes. And then you can do one, if you want to do another one in English, but if you want to do a Swahili. I've never had a Swahili free scream, debt-free scream, have we? No, for sure we haven't. Would you do that? That would be amazing. I would love that. I would love to do another one in English, but if you want to do a Swahili, I've never had a Swahili free scream. No, for sure we haven't. Would you do that? That would be amazing. I would love that.

I would love to do both. I'm so proud of you. You're absolutely amazing. I will tell you this before we do that, that all the data that we have says that someone who comes to this country from another country legally, I'm going to pronounce that carefully, like she did, comes here under the law, you are four times more likely to become a millionaire than someone who was born in America. There's a lot of supposition on why that might be so, but some of it is that, you know, you actually appreciate the fact that we have freedom and opportunity and you're going to take advantage of it um and uh so you have a high likelihood a much higher

likelihood than maybe someone else that sits next to you there and at the you know at the post of becoming a millionaire because of what you're doing and now add add the ramsey stuff to that the debt-free stuff to that work ethic this. This woman's going, oh, it's amazing. All right, Mercy from Temple, Texas. What a story. $18,000 paid off in nine months, making $42,000 from Kenya. We're going to start it out with Swahili. Count it down.

Let's hear a debt-free scream. Tatu, Billy, Moja, Sina, Danny. debt-free scream tattoo billy moja cena denny i love it yeah that was rad thank you for that that was a gift to me thank you thank you good call john good call all right you want to do an american one too yes all right let's do one english english all right here we go all right three two one i'm dead free All right, let's do one English. English. All right, here we go. All right. Three, two, one. I'm debt free! Wow! Yeah, baby!

Woo! Oh, and I built my grandmother a house, too. Wow! Amazing, Mercy. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys. Health insurance costs are only moving one way. This is The Ramsey Show. So if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically-based alternative to health insurance, Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM is a health cost-sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of over $11 billion in medical bills since 1981. And CHM has also helped them stay true to their values and avoid miles of red tape.

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For those of you on YouTube and on podcasts, this will be our last segment for the day. You can pick up the other segment that we're going to do on the Ramsey Network app and you can join it for free. Just go to Ramsey Solutions or go to download the network app

on Apple or Google Play or whatever and you can join it free and you listen to all the whole show or you can listen to the last segment. Whatever you want to do, it's all there for free from the Ramsey Network app. You can also enter questions. This question comes from the Ramsey Network app.

To ask a question without ever having to call in, you can click the link in the show notes or download the app for free. Once you're in the app, you can navigate to the Ramsey Show, click Ask a Question, and submit your question for the show. All right, the question is from brianna says i was one month from my lease being up and i had to leave early due to a domestic violence incident i notified the property management company and sent them the email with proof of the protection order but just the other day i went to check my credit and they put

a four thousand dollar debt into collections i'm appealing, but if that doesn't work, should I just pay it? Okay. What happened to you is wrong and horrible, but it does not release you from a lease. A protection order does not get you out of a lease. You're appealing to their mercy at that point. Yeah. If they want to let you out, if you were one of my tenants, I would let you out. But you can't just send them the email and go, I'm out. It's not a get-out-of-jail-free card, no pun intended.

So, you know, you are liable for that last month. I don't know how it got to $4,000 for one month. You had one month left on the lease, and now they're going to $4,000. I'm not sure what flip were you renting but um or they added a bunch of fees yeah or something or maybe the bozo stayed behind torch the place i don't know i don't know what happened here but you are still liable even though you had a protection order even though you sent an email that does not this is not a one-way thing where you just go, oh, I'm out. No, you're not out unless they choose to let you out and they didn't respond. You don't have a response from

them, or at least you didn't mention it if you do, saying we're going to let you go. If you've got that response, then you owe zero because they said we're going to let you go so that you're free. But I don't think you got that. I think you just sent this to them and you thought that got you out. That's the way this is worded anyway. And does not get you out i'm not an attorney but it doesn't get you out so um uh you know what i would do i don't know if you need to appeal it um i would just call the property management company i'd go in person if you're in the if you're in the town go over there and try to meet with a senior person and see if you can negotiate you you're going to have to pay some money because you you know you just kind of walk you you were in a

horrible situation you needed to leave i'm not telling you you did something wrong but the assumption that you made that it got you out of the lease was incorrect right and so you you're going to owe some money now you got to go figure out what and what you can settle it for. If it's a $4,000 of legitimate charges or a bunch of them that are just beefed up or whatever, you might settle it for that equal to that one month's rent. But you're going to end up paying something, I think. I don't think the judge is going to go, oh, well, you had a protection order. You don't have to honor your contract.

It's like saying, I got a protection order, so I have to pay your contract it's like saying i got a protection order so i have to pay my car payment no that's not how it works so uh sorry you know you're going to end up paying something brianna and i this sooner you can get to somebody and get a settlement negotiation begun you're better off to do it in person and you're better off to do it with the actual people not the stupid lawyers um but if you can get that pulled off that's going to be your best route because you're not going to get out of dodge on this without paying something joe's in chesapeake virginia hi joe how are you hey dave how's it going better than i deserve what's up so uh beginning of this year we decided uh my wife and i decided to take our debt seriously, and now we have paid off $30,000 in student loans and credit card debt.

Good for you. Mostly from my job, and I've been fixing and flipping lawnmowers, trucks, equipment, tractors, all kinds of stuff. Cool. How much money you made doing that? Honestly, normally about $4,000 to $5,000 a month. Wow. Good for you. Yeah.

You're good at this. Yes, sir. I've been working hard. I'm a caterpillar mechanic. That's my career. So I just kind of buy what I can and fix it up. Well, you know how to turn a wrench good for you man yes sir yep um my question is i'm i'm at the point where i need to start my uh my emergency fund three to six month emergency fund good and i've been looking at the high yield savings count and i see that the rate of return is the one i found that i applied for was 5.31%. My mortgage, I only owe 119 on it, the house that we built ourselves. And the interest rate on that is 4.3%. So my question is, why should I not just put all of my income into the highield savings account as long as the rate of return is greater than the interest owed.

Because if you make 1% on $100,000, it's $1,000. You don't have a $1,000 problem. You have a $119,000 problem. The secret to paying off your mortgage is not making 1% spread on a high-yield savings account. The secret to paying off your mortgage is do what you did with the $30,000 and pay off your mortgage. Okay. The actual math of this theory that you're running won't buy you a biscuit. Okay.

That's what I'm saying. So you're making more money on tractors than you'll make on this you a biscuit. Okay. That's what I'm saying. So you're making more money on tractors than you'll make on this in a week. Uh-huh. You follow me? Yes, sir. If you got $100,000 at 5% and $100,000 at 4%, the spread is 1%. 1% of $100,000 is $1,000 per year. You make that in a week flipping tractors.

Okay. So it's not enough to screw with. So just pay off your mortgage. Get your emergency fund done, and then go ahead and go through the baby steps four, five, and six, and you'll be in great shape, man. Yeah, and I like to take that $1,000 and divide it monthly. $83. That's your sleep tax, and you'll more than make that back.

$83 a month. To sleep deeper than you've ever slept in your life because nobody can take your house away. Yeah, just pay it off as fast as you can. Just nail it, hammer it, do it, do it, do it, do it. Don't mess around with it. Don't play games. Good for you.

Good question. All right, Sam's in Syracuse. Hi, Sam. How are you? I'm good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Hey, so I feel like it's a dumb question, but... You're in the right place. A couple of dumb guys. We got you. Hey, so I've been with my girlfriend now for almost a little over a year. I accumulated a large sum of debt before I got with her while I was in the military. And I want to move forward with our relationship. We've discussed it for the last two months or so. I have the money set aside for the ring. How much? About $3,500. How much in debt do you have?

I would say it's roughly around $50,000. And what's it on? It's a few things. So one of them is a credit card, which is $25,000. One is from a repo from a previous relationship. What do you make a year? I make about $65,000 a year, I would say. I pull in about 4,200. 26. Okay.

Almost like I've done this before. Okay. And you're saying you want to wait to get out of debt to get married? And that's the thing. I've heard a few different answers to that question that I have. Unless they're this answer, they're wrong. The correct answer is get married. Okay.

If you're pledged to get out of debt and she's pledged to get out of debt with you and you're aligned and in agreement on your money, get married. That's one of the big reasons why I fell in love with her is, you know, I was very open Don't tell her I think I've got $50,000. Tell her I have $49,462 in debt. And it's exactly this. And this is exactly what I'm going to do to get out because I'm the kind of man you want to marry

because I'm getting this done. I'm a go-getter. That's who you need to be. Don't give me, I think I make, I think I'm in debt. Get it exact and kill it. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love,

and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author multiple times and host of the ever-popular Dr. John Deloney Show on Ramsey Networks. He's my co-host today. We're here to help you with your life and your money. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You jump in, we'll talk about your life and your money. This is what we're here

for. Kayla is with us to start this hour. She's in Houston, Texas. Hi, Kayla. How are you? Good. How are y'all? Better than I deserve. What's up? Okay. This might be a dumb question. It might be an obvious question. We have a vehicle. It is a $80,000 Ford F-250, and we want to get out of it, but it seems almost impossible. It had $20,000 worth of hail damage to it. It has been fixed completely, bar insurance, everything's back to normal. But whenever we take it to trade it in or try to sell it, the car fax pulls up and it shows the damage is around the whole entire vehicle. And so we are offered about a minimum $10,000 less than what we owe on it.

So my question is, is it a dumb decision to let it get repossessed? Have you all tried to private party sell it? Yes. And that same issue comes up? Same issue. Okay. What does Kelley Blue Book say the truck's worth? Kelley Blue Book says $34,000 to $37,000 for trade--in or 40,000 for selling it outright.

And you owe 80? Well, we owe 58 on it. Oh, 58. Okay. Yes. All right. And so you've had someone offer you 48 for it? About that price, yes.

I think a dealership had offered us about around that amount. Okay. All right. And who do you owe the 58 to? Who's the bank? It's our federal credit union. Okay. I want you to go to the credit union in person and tell them the problem to the manager

and say, we don't want to repo this. Right. We want to sell it, but we don't have the $10,000. We want you to release the title for 48. We're going to give you the whole 48, and we're going to sign a note and pay payments on the $10,000. Okay. That is better than a repo.

Here's why. When they repo the truck, they will sell it on a repo lot for $24,000. Okay. Deep discount on a repo lot. Agreed? Yes. And they're going to sue you for the difference. Oh, wow.

Okay. I didn't realize that that would. Yeah, the deficit, it's called, the lack of the money that doesn't get paid by the sale of the vehicle, they're going to come after you for it. And so by letting it be repoed, voluntary or otherwise, you are losing control of the sale price, which means you lose control of the hole that you're in. So I want you to control the hole that you're in and sell it for 48 and sign a note with the credit union for 10.

If you sit down without an attitude of victim, don't act like the credit union did something wrong. They didn't. They did everything they were supposed to do. You're the one that did something wrong. So you go in humble. Yes. Asking for mercy.

Asking for help. I want to do the right thing help me do the right thing help me let sell sell it and pay you the ten thousand dollar difference as an unsecured note okay okay now here's the here's the actual let's look at it from the credit union manager's position for a second if he has to take the truck back and sells it for 24 he's going to lose all that money difference unless he gets it out of you right so this is a much better deal for him because the number of times they collect on a deficit is very low because people often bankrupt after this and if you're a credit union manager, you know that.

And so you're actually making him a really good deal because he does not have a secured loan now. He has a partially secured loan. He has a $10,000 unsecured loan and a $48,000 secured loan. And all we're asking him to do is admit it. Okay. You see what I'm talking from his perspective and so but just be kind and humble and ask for help and say we made a terrible mistake we're going to make good

on it but we really need your help and this is best for the credit union and this is best for us this is a win-win and it is because he's going to come out on the short of the stick and so are you in a repo it's not going to work for either one of you. So that's what you're going to do rather than just throw up your hands in desperation. But if you get a $48,000 offer or a $46,000 offer, he'll let you sign a note for that. Or if you've got $10,000 in the bank, just write a check for the difference and get out of this thing.

I didn't even ask you if you had any money, but I'm assuming you don't. Dave, you and I just talked about this off air a couple of years ago, and producer James sent us an article last week. George and I, we were hosting the show about Pro-Republica Broca's story about these subprime car lenders that were just preying on people and then these massive balloons and is there going to be are we going to have a mass repo crisis people bought cars they could not afford in 2020 and 2021 because they just got so bananas and they were taking out these crazy

loans for them is there going to be a uh a rolling return on some of these it just feels like it's in the air but i know that old whatever i go looking for i'm sure to find i know i'm looking for it everywhere so i may be seeing it yeah well hers is not i mean she's got a credit union loan on a ford f-150 or 250 is not a that's not a subprime loan that's okay that's gonna be a rigor it's just a guy in their town loaned a guy in their town some money subprime is people that are bottom feeders and they're charging 14 15 percent and you know the balance is not going down But if we see the supply catch back up with the demand? Yeah, where you get a bubble on cars is when subprime gets too much of it. Okay. And if too many people are buying on subprime, because they're more likely to crash, they've had bad

credit to start with, that's how they end up subprime. Sure. So they're more likely to crash statistically and end up with a car back. And they're paying, you know, 14, 15, 18, 22% interest. And so if you get too many of those floating around, that portion will crash. But it's not going to crash the, quote, regular car market. Okay. Okay. What she's got there is that's a marketable truck sure oh yeah it means she for god's sake she's in houston texas i kind of want to buy it yeah so selling

a ford pickup truck's a hard thing right so um but yeah i mean it's it's a doable thing so that's that's not in the article that y'all read that's not that's the call i've gotten for 35 years okay yeah it feels like there's a bigger thing but but I tend to get over emotional about stuff like that. So I'm glad to check on you. Anytime you have prices going up fast and then prices coming down fast, then you get the spread between what they owe and what it's worth. That's when you got a problem. There you go.

Forever, cars have been upside down. Forever. You've been some level of upside down. But where you had that COVID artificial value shoot up and then drop back down to normal, and so the depreciation off the backside was even faster. But I guess people can still pay it. And so that spread between what's owed and what it's worth, that can make the problem happen. There you go.

And that's what that article was about, I'm sure. I hadn't read it, but I'm sure that's what it was. This is The Ramsey Show. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, is my co-host. Imagine this, you look up a year from today and you finally accomplished everything that really mattered to you. That's called setting goals and hitting them. Hello.

Achieving goals goals hitting your goals is part of becoming successful success is not an accident it is a series of acts that take you a series of behaviors that take you to where you want to be we're excited that the new 2025 Ramsey gold planner is here it's packed with munchie monthly teaching from rachel cruz dr john deloney and jade washaw all the favorite features are there monthly and weekly calendars stickers vision board goal setting savings tracker more it's only 49.97 john this is a nice one we i mean you guys upgraded this thing this year yeah it's pretty fancy man and uh we took your idea i know you're a big vision board guy. Dave's got this real beautiful felt vision board in his office with all of our pictures on it. Jesus flannel board.

It's cool. Exactly. He's got the story of Abraham down in the left-hand corner of it. But, yeah, this thing's really – I'm looking at it right now. I'm holding it. If you're not watching on YouTube, it's beautiful. It's spectacular. It's beautiful.

Art is art. It's art. It's art, yeah. And it's very functional and very usable. Yeah, you know what it doesn't have? 107 ribbons in it. It doesn't have like, you don't need a computer app to run it. I didn't know you were a fellow ribbon hater.

Oh, dude. I got ribbons. Some of these, everybody's got a little journal with ribbons. And they're all different colors for the day. Oh, you drive me nuts. I can't handle it. But this one is, one is an old school amazing

planner, just like my wife uses. It's great. It's awesome. Go get it. No ribbons. Everything you want in a gold planner, but ribbons. But no ribbons. If you're a ribbon person, you won't want this gold planner. It is ribbonless. $49.97. Check it out.

RamseySolutions.com. Teresa is in San Antonio. Hi, Teresa. How are you? Hey, Dave and John. I'm doing great. Good. What's up?

Okay, so I need your help trying to figure out how I can help my dad, and most importantly, make sure he stays out of my house. Okay. You can go to Home Depot, and they're $100 dollars and they're called a lock on the front door you can just yeah yeah okay so here's the here's the deal right my dad is uh he's 80 years old and he has he's now disabled he can barely like walk you know through his apartment um but he's living in a low-income housing apartment out of state out of side of out of Texas and they bought and somebody bought the building so they sold the building and they are not going to keep it low income

and so he's in a situation where he has a lease and they're going to honor it until the end of July but after that he may not be able to afford to live there. And the housing list is like a year long. So July of next year, 2025? Yeah. Okay. So you all have some time to deal with this? A little bit, yeah. He has to take action.

I'm assuming he thinks he's moving in with you now? Well, he called me up when he found out this was all happening. He called me up and said, first of all, he said, hey, so this is going on, and so get ready. You might have to come get me this weekend. I was like, nope, nope, I'm going on vacation. Yeah. So I'm assuming there's something deeper here than just dad wanting –

I mean, an 80-year-old coming home to live who's got special needs is going to be, quote, unquote, inconvenient for everybody. Right, right. But he's inconvenient for everybody. But. Right. Right. But he's also an alcoholic. There you go. That's what I was getting at. Yeah.

He lived with me for a couple months while he was in between his house and this apartment. Okay. And I straight up told him, I said, you know, you can drink, but you can't get drunk. And so he said, oh, well then I just won't buy anything. Okay. So. That works. Okay, good.

Yeah. Yeah, that works for me. but that's my boundary line. Do you know in your heart and soul, my dad will not move in with me? Pretty much, yeah. Yeah. Okay, then he needs to know that now. He needs to know that now. Yeah.

Yeah. I just, I can't have him in my house. Plus, I have a two-story, and so it's not even safe for him to live here now. Okay. Yeah. So, now, then how can we walk alongside him and help him find housing, whether it's subsidized housing in Texas or subsidized housing where he lives, a one-year waiting list?

Yeah, probably. Or are there people that advocate for the elderly that are in subsidized housing? They're losing it. Talk to the local housing authority. Talk to your local housing authority. How can you help him find something once you get past the emotion of he's moving in with me? Because he's not moving in. So we're just going to go ahead and say that.

And you're going to tell him that. But I will help you, Dad. I'm going to help you try to find something. We'll help you get moved. I'll help you a lot of ways but living here is not going to be one of them right so so i've been doing that but basically you know i've sent him all the information and i've i emailed him i spent about three hours scanning application information for low-income housing near me. And I told him, you know, give him the phone number for the person to call and said,

you know, just email her, make an appointment. She's very nice. She'll walk you through all the paperwork because it's a lot. And he just won't do it. Teresa, you've been wanting him to be something he's not your whole life. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I wouldn't expect him at 80 to change now well right right the choice before you is to you're going to call

and do legwork for him it's not your job but you're just going to do it or you're going to wash your hands of this whole thing and stop taking his calls but you're making yourself crazy in the intro you can't stay in the middle the middle is i want him to go be somebody he's not and he's not going to you're making yourself nuts don't do that suddenly going to become a responsible upstanding citizen right not a chance he's not so fill out the application form and get him a place or um just tell him dad i'm not helping you anymore. Don't call me anymore. I'm blocking your number. Yeah, and so it's more of the, you know, my thing is I do have good memories, and so it's like can I live with myself knowing that, you know,

he's potentially homeless. I couldn't. I couldn't. I'm going to be honest. I couldn't. And so I'd get on the phone, and if it was me, I would fill out applications, and I would try to find my dad a place to live. That's what I would do. applications and I would try to find my dad a place to live. That's what I would do.

You shouldn't have to. Let's say out loud, you shouldn't have to and you don't have to, but if you choose to because that's the way you want to live with yourself, then fine. It's not a bad thing. You haven't done something wrong. But do you need to write a check or do you need to buy him a house or do you need to move him in with you or do something silly?

No, you don't need to do any of that. The phrase, not by my hand but in my lap. You didn't cause this, but here it is. Right, right. And so I don't know. I mean, I guess, too, I just want to make you guys aware because I heard one of the very first calls from today, and the housing list is ridiculously long. Some states, I mean, they said the Section 8 housing list, where he is and the state list is ridiculously long.

Some states, I mean, they said the Section 8 housing list, where he is and the state he's in, is nine years long. And then the alternative, like he went and tried to look for just a regular apartment, and they wanted four times. In order to qualify for the apartment, he needed to make four times the rent. Well, he doesn't make four times the rent. He would need to double he needed to make four times the rent. Well, he doesn't make four times the rent. He would need to double his pay to make four times the rent. That's right.

So that's kind of a housing situation. No, it's going on across the country. But here's what I'm not going to do. I'm not going to rage against math because I lose every time. Right. And you've got until July to creatively like creatively solve the problem that's it helping him solve his problem um because that's what you want to do rather than totally ignore him it's a national shortage it's a problem it's all those things are true and they don't fix your

dad situation let's focus on what we can control here and that's that's that's the controllables yeah i mean he may have to move to a place he doesn't want to move to like out in a rural market where there's not waiting lists or in an inner city yeah well yeah he he moved from a rural minnesota and because it was cold yeah he may have to he's gonna have to do things he doesn't want to do because it's really cold if you don't have a place to live yeah Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, you have to make peace with yourself. If it was me, I'd get on the phone and I'd fill out applications and I'd try to find my dad a place. I wouldn't ask him to be something he's not at 80 years old. That ship has sailed.

And let's also say that John saying that does not mean you are evil if you choose not to do that. He's saying he would do that. That's right. It's not a moral judgment if you choose not to do it. If you to say my dad was an alcoholic this was no fun i don't want him i don't want to deal with this he won't take anything i'm just going to wash my hands of it dad i can't help you praying for you love you but i'm not going to help you and you step back you can do that you don't even have to block his number you can just say that's it i'm not going to do it and or you can go do it but But either one, live with it. Don't sit, though, and be surprised that he doesn't do something that we all know he's not going to do,

which is take the bull by the horns here. He's not going to do it. And don't sit there and Google national housing crisis stuff. It's real. Solve your problem. Exactly. You're not trying to fix the national housing crisis. You're trying to fix his.

This is The ramsey show dr john deloney ramsey personality is my co-host today thank you for joining us open phones at 888-825-5225 james is in salt lake city hi james how you? I'm doing good, Dave. How about yourself? Better than I deserve. What's up? So what I'm dealing with is about a year ago, I had to go to the emergency room, and I ended up with a medical bill that was split into two bills. This was August of last year, if I remember right. And then about December, it just went away.

I was paying what I could when I could. I ended up getting it to where I was paying $50 a month. Who were you paying it to? Inter-Mountain Medical Center. Okay. How did it go away? What's that mean? In December, I went in to pay and they said the balance was zero. Okay.

So you physically went to Intermountain Medical Center to pay the bill in person and they said you don't owe anything. Yes. Okay. Did you say, can I get that in writing? I did not. Okay. Go back over there tomorrow and say, is my balance still zero? If they say yes, say, would you please give me a note with the account number that says it's zero on your letterhead right quick so I've got that for my file because I'm not positive. I thought I still owed you money,

but maybe I don't. And if it's zero, that's fine. But could you please give me a zero balance with that, a printout with that account number on it so I can have that for my records in hard copy. Okay. Okay. The other, other, the second bill, which was about 1500, I, I, I believe that that has gone into collections and I, why do you believe that?

Uh, because I, I didn't realize there were two bills. I was only paying on the one. I didn't even realize there was two. I was only paying on the one. I didn't even realize there was two. Was it the same people? Yes. Well, ask them about it when you go to the counter.

Well, I did ask them, and what I was understanding is that the smaller bill was for the doctors, and the larger bill was for the service. That makes sense. You very well could have two accounts at the same place for two different things. Yeah, that's very possible. If you went over there and you thought you owed them money, just ask them. Yeah. Have you pulled your credit report? I have not. and you thought you owed them money, just ask them. Yeah.

Have you pulled your credit report? I have not. I actually don't know how to do that, and so I've never. It was a year ago, and I kind of just, you know, I got busy. Okay, let's try this. Let's try this. What's your question? How can we help you?

Okay, so right now I have a copy of the bill, the second bill, the smaller one, in my hand. And then I've got a letter from a collections agency, and the information on it seems to correspond enough that I'm thinking, yes, this is a legitimate thing. I do actually owe this. Yeah. I don't know how to deal with collection companies because I've never had to do it in my life. Well, you just call them up and you talk to the unpleasant person on the other end of the phone who's a jack wagon, and then you will have to deal with them and their attitude, and you try to get payments set up and you pay it off.

What do you make, James? I make about $1,500 a month. What do you do? I work for a school-based food bank, and I just drive all day. Okay. And how old are you? I am 32. Okay. Could you pick up a side job and pay this off in a month? Not that I have been able to figure out. I've actually been trying to figure out how to do that, where I could go, what I could do. I haven't been able to figure

anything out as far as that goes. Another layer to this is I recently had to go back to the hospital. What's the reason you go back to the hospital. What's the reason you're going to the hospital, sir? So the first time I went to the hospital, I thought I had a stroke. And I just went in. They did a bunch of tests. They got some results. It says, no, you didn't have a stroke.

I didn't ever really figure out what happened there. James, let me interrupt you a minute, hon. I think what I need to do is I'm going to get one of our financial coaches that has been trained by us because I think you need somebody to walk beside you for a little bit here and help you walk through some of this. Okay. And I'm not positive we're going to be able to give you the right information here on the radio because basically these are two fairly small debts and it's two fairly easy transactions and a little bit of extra income and tightening of your belt.

And I think you can get it behind you. But I'm not positive I can tell in talking to you all the different things you're facing. It sounds like you're facing several things at once that are a lot more complicated than these two little bills. So I'm going to put somebody with you to help you because I want to make sure that we care for you and that you can actually get this. I'm going to pay for it. It won't cost you anything. Okay. So you hold on Christian, our phone screener, associate producer will pick up and we'll get a Ramsey coach in your corner to, to help you walk through this. Cause it sounds like it's very complicated for you. Okay. Hey man, I appreciate the call. Thank you for being a listener. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Andrew is with us in California. Hi, Andrew. How are you?

Hello, doing well. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So I kind of have a simple question. My wife and I are, I just graduated school, and we're looking to work through your seven baby steps. I currently have only student loan debt, about $50,000, and $20,000 of that is interest-free from my parents. It was a good-faith loan. So my question is, would it be better for us to save up for a house right now while we're, because we're currently losing essentially $1,300 a month in rent. So would

it be better to save up and start building equity in a home or would it be better to tackle the $50,000 in student loans first? Yeah, it's very tempting to do what you're talking about, and I understand how you're tempted by that, but you're going to, you're trading a short-term feel-good for a long-term problem. So what we've found from 30 years of doing this, is that people are much wiser to become debt-free and have an emergency fund in place before they buy a house because buying a home is not as simple as paying the monthly payment. You also have all the other crap that goes along with homeownership, like the day you buy it.

If you have $50,000 in student loan debt, you buy a house, you know what will happen the next week? The heat and air will go out. You know what will happen the next week? The water heater will blow up. You know what will happen two weeks later? A tree will fall on it. I mean, you really are asking.

You're going to have all kinds of crap happen to you. You're inviting Murphy into your life if you do this. And I know it sounds like you're losing $1,300. You're not losing $1,300. You're spending $1,300 on patients. And I want you to roll up your sleeves, quit going out to eat, don't go on vacation, take six jobs. Eat beans and rice, rice and beans. Make your broke friends think you joined a cult, and get your butt out of debt fast.

When you get out of debt fast, like I'm talking, what do you guys make a year, Andrew? Well, I just started as an RN, so I'll be earning about $100,000. Awesome. $120,000. What does she make? She's a church secretary. She's probably earning about $50,000 a year right now. So we got $170,000 income and you want to pay off $50,000.

One year, baby. Max. Maximum a year. Oh, by the way, you know what an RN can do? They can work all the time. All day, all night. All day, all night until you collapse. Right before you die, you know what an RN can do? They can work all the time. All day, all night. All day, all night until you collapse. Right before you die, you will collapse.

Don't worry about it. And then you'll be in a hospital. We'll just inject you. You'll be fine. Just get back up and keep going. Man, just go crazy and get yourself out of debt. Quit trying to figure this out. This is The Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day, 1 Thessalonians 5, 16 through 18. Rejoice always.

Pray continually. Give thanks in all circumstances, for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus. Winston Churchill said, the pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty. Jessica is with us. Jessica is in Philadelphia. Hi, Jessica. How are you? I'm okay. I'm here. Good. How can we help? So my husband is asking for a divorce for the second time. And previous to this, we had been working through baby step two. And now since this has come to light, I am trying to figure out, do we or me try to continue down the debt snowball, or do I pause and go into storm mode and stack as much cash as I can

preparing for an unknown? I'm sorry. Yeah, I hate this for you. It's really scary, isn't it? Extremely. Yeah. How long have you all been married? 13 years.

What's your career? I am a registered nurse. That's good news. And do you have children? Two. What age? Seven and two next week. Oh, my gosh.

Okay. All right. Are you all still seeing a marriage counselor? Yes. Okay. Individually and together. Okay. And the purpose of that, if he's going to file divorce,

why would you be continuing to see a marriage counselor? I am encouraged by our counselor of, you know, let's keep the lines of communication open and work through, you know, kind of as things pop up and, you know, discuss the children and how to handle some of that. Okay. So to facilitate the divorce, that's hard to say. I am, I do not, I don't want, I mean, that's what your marriage counselor is telling you. Keep me on the tab so I can help you work through the divorce that's why you're keeping them is that what you told me

i believe so yes is that what the therapist said but you're hoping that somehow there's a hail mary in here he's hoping there's a hail mary and as am i okay. But this is our second time down this road, and my husband has told me there will be no Hail Mary. There will be no. Is he still living with you? Yeah, he's downstairs and I'm upstairs. Okay. All right.

Well, here's the, I don't know where the tipping point is okay but it once it the once the thing once it's tipped and divorce is coming which it kind of sounds like okay that's what he's saying anyway all right we're not he's saying no hail mary that's not happening um at the point that you decide that's what is happening to you a friend of mine that does divorce recovery told me like 25 years ago and i've never forgotten the line he said or she actually said um divorce turns a marriage into a business transaction so now this is about assets liabilities and visitation of the children, and alimony and child support. So it all comes down, it starts being numbers now.

It turns the whole thing that was your dream has become a nightmare, and it turns into numbers. Does that make any sense? Yes. And so your husband's going probably does not understand how little of his money he's going to get to keep in this scenario. It's sadly the reverse. He does understand.

I am the breadwinner. I know. Do you have to pay him alimony? If it comes to that, yes. He doesn't work he makes half of what i made oh okay that's different okay so yeah he works full-time but his uh annual salary is significantly lower but he thinks he's going to get to keep that whole annual salary and um you know so anyway so what's going to happen is, is we're going to divide the assets and we're going to divide the liabilities.

And that's the that's the business transaction. And we're going to come up with, you know, parenting rights and who's doing what there and what the child support laws are in Pennsylvania and what the alimony laws are in Pennsylvania. They're fairly clear. It's fairly cut and dried in most every state. This is not like a courtroom drama thing. It's just like even your lawyer, the judges, they don't have a lot of choice. They're just going to go, that's what it is, and you're just going to do that's what it is.

There's not a lot of people who get the idea somehow they can punish someone or something like that or they can do what's in quotes, right. Really didn't get anything to do with it. It's got to do with what the law says, and there's going to be just a whole thing here. So I think for your peace of mind, yes, I would go into storm mode. I'd pile up cash. I would retain an attorney, and I would start to learn what the laws are in your state and exactly what you're facing. And, you know, here's what's going to happen to the house. Here's what's going to happen to the cars. Here's what's going to happen to the visa bill.

Here's what's going to happen to the student loan. Here's what's going to happen to the $5,000 whose grandmother left you, whatever it is. And each of these items, you're going to make a list, and there's a legal determination, and that's going to become the divorce settlement. And it'll be filed before the judge, and if it's done properly, the judge will just stamp it, and you're done. And it becomes a business transaction. So with that in mind, you are in the middle of a storm. You would not be working a financial plan right now.

Right now, you'd be piling up cash to get through this hurricane that is your life. I'm so sorry. Yeah. And, um, I hear this a lot, Dave coming through my show, but I think it applies here too. If one of your, one of the spouses says, I'm asking you for a divorce, you can say, I'm not giving you, you're going to have to file. And what I am seeing more and more is somebody wants to get divorced, but they want to railroad the other person into going along with this thing or trying to force somebody to do it. And I think it's being real clear in your communication. I'm not going to file. I want to, I want to work this out. I want to be married to you. If you want to leave me, then you're going to have to take the steps to go sign this piece of paper.

And it's heartbreaking, but there's something about just drawing this boundary. Like you said, this is the start of a business transaction. Here's the role I'm going to play. And going from there, but it's just a heartbreaking mess. Yeah. Doesn't sound like he's a proactive guy. It sounds like he is absolutely not that. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So him actually going and doing this is a different thing than him talking about it well it's yeah and there can be that pressure that um especially spineless guys like this will will squeeze on their on their spouses trying to get them to do it like look how what a deadbeat i am look at this like i'm gonna kind of force you into this just be real clear i'm not gonna i'm not gonna i'm not gonna file on you i want to be your i want to be your wife i want to be married to you i'm not going to, I'm not going to, I'm not going to file on you. I want to be your, I want to be your wife. I want to be married to you. I'm not going to file on you. If you want to leave this partnership, you want to leave this marriage, you go sign that piece of paper with your attorney and then we'll go from the game on. Then we'll, then we'll split

it up. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. But I, in the meantime, I would retain an attorney for advice. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. When you have, um, it's a great five or 10,000 bucks to spend and nobody has that kind of money laying around, but it's worth every penny of it. Yeah. When you have. It's a great five or 10,000 bucks to spend and nobody has that kind of money laying around, but it's worth every penny of it. Yeah. When you have high anxiety about anything, a lot of it can't, a percentage of it goes away when you have knowledge. Answers.

That's right. Because that gives you the path towards here's what I'm going to do next. Yeah. Here's what's going to happen and the known bad thing is not as stressful as the unknown what the crap is happening because you'll make up stories to fill up the unknown what the crap in your head your stories are catastrophic and wild and nutty and so just get some information and um some very clear information and it's not going to none of this information is going to be information you want or that you would have wished for but it sure lays the path before you and if she's the chief breadwinner and she's going to lose a big chunk of money because he's leaving whatever the

laws she'll at least know that and can begin to head down that road yeah we don't say i'm losing half my income well no probably not yeah yeah you know so um you got to find out what it is you might go oh that's all it is okay there you go. Or, oh, my gosh, it wasn't half my income, and we're going to deal with that. Yeah, you let the monster out of the closet, you find out he's really small, or he's smaller than you thought he was anyway. I'm sorry, hon. That's a horrible thing. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show.

In the books, we'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. We'll see you next time.