The Ramsey Show - App - This Is What True Capitalism Looks Like (Hour 2)

Episode Date: April 16, 2024

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show. We help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Jay Walsh, all Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author of the Ramsey Quick Read, Money is Not a Math Problem, The Real Reason You're Broken, What to Do About It. She's my co-host today. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Renee is in Nashville.

Hi, Renee, how are you? I am doing better than I deserve, Renee. How are you? I am doing better than I deserve, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? I'm really glad that you took my call. And hi, Jade. Hi.

I have a lot of plants, too. Yes. So my thing is that I'm needing some clarification on how to get a mortgage through Churchill Mortgage with a manual underwriting and everything without having a credit score. So background, I will be debt free in August. I have $7,500 left to pay off on my consumer debt out of $22,074.75, and that will be done in August, be done with Baby Step 3 before January 25, and I will be starting to pay my house off, and by my calculations, I will have the house paid off in two years. So 2027, the house will be paid off. I want to move. I hate my house.

I hate everything about it, including the location. I should have never bought the house. And it was actually a curse to me in the beginning because I did not have my three to six months emergency fund saved up. And Murphy came in in a big, huge storm. Everything had to replace so many things in the house. and I know better now. Now I know I will make a profit when I sell the house, but I'm probably going to have to get a mortgage considering. I don't know what the market is going to be doing. What will you, when you sell the house,

what will you come away with? Um, no, maybe about, uh, 2000, uh, $200,000, know, maybe about $200,000 maybe. And then what would you want to purchase the next house for?

What's your range? It's two years from now. Yeah, this is about two and a half years from now, maybe three, because I really want to renovate because I would be embarrassed to sell this house to anybody. So you've got a little journey here. You've got a little timeline in front of you. So your biggest fear is, is this true, Jade and Dave? Can you actually buy a house with a zero credit score when the time comes? Is that your question? Yes. And I have been listening to George Campbell's book. By the way, please tell him he did an amazing job on the audio book.

Absolutely loved it. We agree. In the book, he said that he bought a house with zero credit score, and the interest rate that he got was the same interest rate that somebody with a perfect credit score would get. That's true. That's right. Same here, by the way. And on a 15-year fixed rate, which tends to get you a better interest rate as well. So it's all true. It's absolutely all true. Just know, you know, if you're doing zero credit score manual underwriting, I mean, there's

limitations. You can't just borrow to the moon and back, you know, right? So, you know, going in with some cash and then adding, you know, whatever you're going to add to that, that's great. And I think it's one of those things, I'll be honest with you, when I entered the baby steps, Renee, there were a couple of things that I pushed back. It was like my logic just hadn't caught up yet. It was very hard for me to accept that you can actually buy a car in cash. And it was very hard for me. I remember being like, Dave, don't let me down because I'm about to have zero credit score.

And I want to know that this works. And there is part of that, that you just walk through the process. And even though you've heard everybody say it and say it and say it until you experience it for yourself, then you go, oh my gosh, this really does work. This is real. People do this.

That's what scares me is not having a credit score. I'm never buying, I'm never getting credit cards again. See, here's the thing. Here's the thing, okay? When you say out loud, what scares me is not having a credit score. What you're really saying is, I'm worried that I won't have a good life without debt okay it's the same thing because there's only one thing the credit score is used for and that's getting debt so yeah i'm worried i can't have a good life without debt that's what you're saying

when you're saying i'm worried about not having a credit score. Now, what you do need to do on a technical basis is make sure you don't have any open accounts, even with zero balances. So if you've got old credit cards that are still open but zero balances, you need to close the account completely. Because an open account ringing the bell over at the credit bureau is going to keep your score there, even if it's a zero balance. So you need to close all debt accounts completely down, including the 7,500 one. As soon as it's gone, you need to make sure it's closed. closed and then they it takes them about a quarter maybe two quarters to notify the credit bureau uh

that they're that the account no longer exists and when you have no active credit accounts of any kind about six months later typically your credit score it becomes indeterminable or zero and that is the goal and what i, because I didn't have a choice, you had a choice, because I went broke, was that the great FICO is not worthy of my adoration. The great FICO is not worthy of my worship. And I don't need to bring the great FICO God offerings of interest and other stupid things to have a good life.

Don't worship at false idols because this is a false idol. It does not provide you. It's not an indication you're good with money. It's not an indication of your net worth. It's not an indication you're good with money. It's not an indication of your net worth. It's not an indication of your income. 100% of the variables in the algorithm that create a FICO score have to do with your interaction with debt. That's right.

How much debt you have, what kinds of debt you have, what percentage of the debt available to you that you're using, how long you've had the debt. It's all how much you've been playing kissy face with the bank. That's what it is. And so you could get a million dollar inheritance it doesn't change your fico score one dime you could get a million dollar raise at work it doesn't change your fico score one dime so the point is it is not a measure of financial health it is a measure of how much you've been playing kissy face with the bank. How much debt you love.

That's an I love debt score. An I love debt thoroughly is what an 800 score says. It says I have paid them so much interest because I just love banks. I think they're awesome and I want to give them

my money. That's what an 800 score says. That's right. It's a hallmark card to the banking industry. Instead, I want to give them a salute. This is The Ramsey Show. Jade Walsh, all Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Try to think now, it's been probably two years ago. My buddies over at The Daily Wire called me and said,

hey, want to have dinner? A buddy of ours named Vivek Ramaswamy is in town, and you need to know this guy. And I'm like'm like okay if you say i need to know him we'll go have dinner so we all got together had a had a lengthy dinner had a light a great conversation next thing i look up the guy's running for president so uh but you did come on the show before that um after that and talk about your book woke capitalism right yeah woke ink was my first book woke ink yep woke ink yeah that was it and uh because you're working on a whole uh movement in the hedge fund world and in the mutual fund world to offset some of the woke stuff that's

happening on wall street uh but then i look up and and you're out there um making a very interesting run we had some email interactions just personally back and forth while you're out there doing that stuff that's got to be quite an adventure to be out there bumping heads with Nikki. I know Nikki, too. She sat here, too, with, of course, President Trump and everybody else and all the different players that were involved. It was very interesting. It was eye-opening. And I think the thing I learned from traveling this country, Dave, is that we're taught to believe that we're divided.

And that's what I thought going into this race. I'd say my most positive learning coming out of it is that if you actually talk to human beings from New York of us in this country share the same values in common right now. And I think half the 20% that we think are on the other side are people who are younger than me, who never learned those values in the first place, who I think will come along believing in free speech, meritocracy, the pursuit of excellence, the rule of law, just basic rules of the road that regardless of race or political affiliation, for that matter, Democrat or Republican, even 80 plus percent of us in this country, I think still are united around certain basic principles. And I don't say that in some cheesy kind of way.

It was, I think, a surprise to me. You go into this from the world of cable news and digital and social media, creating the artifact of division that I don't see actually existing in real American homes and interactions. So the question is, how do we call the bluff on that division? I tried to do some of calling a lot of bluffs on the campaign of the media and of, I think, a lot of government dishonesty that's left this country worse off. But I'm hopefully proud of what we began, and we're going to continue it in other ways. One of the things I've talked about from stage in our events for many years, and it always gets a cheer, regardless of political affiliation, is the idea that if you can get out of that and get on a plan and increase your generosity, the things you can do,

and I can show some examples of when an entire community does this uh how many saint jude hospitals we can build with uh how many uh foster children get a home when we the people start taking care of we the people it becomes very inspiring and the beautiful part about it is the byproduct of that is it puts the government out of business. It does. And the beauty of this country is we're the best country known to man to at least give people that opportunity. And every one of us has our own unique God-given gift, right? And I think that this is a country, we use a word like merit. I use that word a lot, but what does it mean i think it's living as part of a system where

everybody can achieve the maximum of their god-given potential without any government or any system standing in your way and that's what got us this far 250 years into this country it's what allowed me to live the american dream that i have and i want to pass it on a system can be a negative system racism sexism those are. And so without any system, not just a bureaucratic system, right? Yes, exactly. Exactly. And that's the beauty of this country.

And I'm an entrepreneur by background. Politics was new to me. I learned a lot about politics. Not all of it was positive. I'll bet. Most of it, I would say, was left me, I would say, a little more cynical,

but a little bit more informed on the other side of it. I'm an entrepreneur by background. I start companies. And so that's part of what I've gone back to in the meantime is the world of entrepreneurship and driving change through the private sector and changing this country for the better and meeting the needs of, I think, for example, you talked about woke capitalism. One of the companies I had started before I ran for president was a company called Strive that competes directly against BlackRock and State Street and Vanguard by standing for actual corporate purpose. Companies should do what allows them to be most valuable,

not pushing somebody else's social agenda. That's part of how we drive change in this country too, is it's not just going to be done through the government, but through our educational system, through the private sector as well. I think people can drive a lot of positive change, too. And I'm trying to do that in the meantime. Vivek Ramaswamy is with us. Jade Warshaw is my co-host. Jade?

Yeah, I want to know. So one of your 10 truths that you talk about is the idea that capitalism can lift people out of poverty. A lot of people would push back hard against that. They feel like capitalism is one of the things that's keeping them trapped. So talk about that a little bit. Yeah, sure. And I want to distinguish between crony capitalism, which is a perversion of the real thing and actual true capitalism. That's a good distinction. And it's important, right? Because many people who are earnestly frustrated with what they see as an oppressive system of capitalism isn't really the real thing. It's this version where companies through lobbying and other forms of non-competitive measures are using the force of government to

create barriers that stop them from achieving their dreams. You see this in the pharmaceutical sector. I mean, a lot of the lobbying results in less competition, which contributes to high prescription drug pricing. So when people say, I can't afford to buy my medicines, well, part of what they're having frustration with isn't capitalism, but the capture of a healthcare system that isn't working as efficiently as it should. You see, in the health insurance marketplace, a lot of health insurers are not really, not a lot of health insurance brokers aren't really serving up the right plans for their actual clients to select. But that's the product of crony capitalism, which is a perversion of the real system. And so I think my first distinction is I might share your same frustration. I probably do. Companies should not use the government as a lobbying instrument to block competition. Now, on the flip side, look at actual free market capitalism. The only way you're able to get ahead as an entrepreneur or as a business is if you're

providing something of value, of greater value to the person who's paying for it than it takes for it costing you to provide it. And that's fundamentally an other regarding activity. So if you're actually providing something of inherent value to somebody else, that is what's lifted people up from poverty. It's why US stock market returns have outpaced European stock market returns for decades, because their model of capitalism

is to have capitalists try to take care of social issues. Whereas the US model of capitalism is to have capitalists try to take care of social issues whereas the u.s model of capitalism is one that says when companies are creating products and services that serve people and stay true to that mission that actually creates wealth for everybody yeah real capitalism is where profit is the applause your customers give you exactly for having served them well it's that simple it's that simple and so you know money or the making of money when it's done in service of human beings i haven't heard that line i'm going to take that though i like that it's it's it just it it when you're when it when it's an act of service one of our core values is here if we help enough people at ramsey we don't

worry about money that's one of our core values. We have 14 core values on the wall. That's one of them on the wall all through the building here. And so our job is to make sure that we are a blessing, and then we can't keep the blessings from flowing at us. It's actually interesting you mention that. It's even one of the pieces of advice I give to young people. So you're talking about the customer side.

Even if you talk about the labor market or the job side of it, a young person can't find a job. Here's my advice to them is show up somewhere and volunteer to work there. Make yourself so valuable and indispensable such that when it comes time for you to find another opportunity to move on, they won't let you leave. They're going to actually pay you what you actually deserve. And so it goes whether you're an employee looking for a job, business selling a product. I love that. Is actually do the right thing. Bathe, smile, have some energy, bring it, add value. And you can't, they won't, they'll do anything.

They're not going to let you go. They're not going to let you go. And that is, to me, that's true capitalism is actually you provide something of value to somebody else, either as a worker or as a company or whatever it is. Without the cronyism in government, the corruption that you see of lobbying the government to be able to mess with that competition, that's true capitalism that lifts us up. There's such a distinction there that you speak about, and I agree with you.

Why do you think it gets grouped together when we can see it so distinctly different? Yeah, well, I'll be candid on this. I think that the Republican party has assumed the mantle of standing for capitalism but much of the republican party has been corrupted by some of the same forces of crony capitalism subsidies or favoritism or corporate welfare such that somebody else earnestly saying okay you guys stand for capitalism but you got the bailouts in 2008 that happened in a republican administration yep there's a republican president republican treasury secretary bailed out institutions

that took on way more debt than they needed to, way more leverage. I got it. You're not hearing the buck music. I got to go, brother. Vivek Ramaswamy, check him out, at Vivek G. Ramaswamy, at Instagram and at X. Be sure and check him out. Thanks for stopping by, my friend. Thank you.

Good seeing you guys. Jade Walshaw, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. Patrick is with us in Little Rock. Hi, Patrick. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, thank you, Dave, and thank you, Jade. I am really honored to call you guys today. This has been a long-time thing that I've wanted to do is call in and ask for some advice.

Of course, there's many times I needed to do that earlier probably, but I'm kind of in a little bit of a situation. Just recently, let me back up a little bit. My daughter, two years ago, she was born with a very rare genetic disorder called trisomy 13. She was very medically challenged for a long time. We were not able to work. I was not able to work like I needed to, and my wife was a stay-at-home mom, obviously. She was very to the point where it was really bad because she had to constantly be suctioned and things like that. And in and out of the hospital pretty much, I would say, 80% of the time. And then, you know, they told us that, you know, we had two to four days maybe with her at most.

And that was two-something years ago. And she lived a long two-plus years up until recently, and she passed just January. Oh, I'm sorry. Thank you. God, though, is so good, and His grace is so good. Two days before she passed, we found out we were expecting another baby. And so God really knew what he was doing because it's just the timing of everything that just gives glory to God, I think.

But anyways, so we are in a situation right now. And emotionally, we are obviously not where we should be. We are having a lot of issues and stuff and, and work is, it's something we have to still do and still continue to go on. Uh, before she passed though, I had started, I've been a paint contractor for probably about 13 years. And, uh, I've been wanting to get out of that for about three years of that time and do something different. I started on the side a business doing like excavation and stuff like that, and that is taking off, starting to take off. It's a little slow at first, but I don't i didn't go out and get a bunch of debt um and then how much did you make in march so in march we made about two thousand

dollars which it's just a side thing right now so it's not just a side thing what's your main gig my main gig is still painting and i I also do construction work and stuff. So how much did you make total in March? My income, not including my wife's, was probably about $3,500. What does your wife make? About $3,500. She makes $2,500 a month. All right.

And what's your question, Patrick? So my question is, she is pregnant, obviously, and I'm wanting to know if I should just go out and get a full-time job and not worry about what I'm doing part-time. Both of my businesses are basically part-time. I guess I should say it like that can you get enough business you have the emotional energy with all you've been through to get enough business to stay busy and make a living i believe i do i i i'm honestly um so you can go from $3,500 to $4,500 and by the end of the year be at $5,500 a month average?

That's what I'm hoping for. If you believe you can do that, if you think you can do that, why would you go get a job? That's exactly, I've been battling this because I don't know, like I want someone to just tell me, hey, that's stupid, you got a baby coming because my wife is going to be quitting when, when you can make more and more and more money, that's good if a baby's coming. I know. I, well, and I was, uh, that's, that's exactly what I'm thinking too,

but I have heard that it's not good sometimes to, um, run with a side venture and not knowing what it's not good sometimes to run with a side venture and not knowing what it's going to do. Honestly, I want to do that full time. Well, you're combining the side one with your main one. Your main gig was the painting. You were making X off of that, and then you added the excavation to it. And to be fair, in your own words,

you haven't really had the time or resource or energy or emotional energy to put 100 into this and so now you're you're going to start being able to do that and i think with the numbers these are construction yeah you're in the construction business you do excavation you do painting and you do some other construction work right yes sir yeah just go do a whole bunch of it man one wild card i did not mention i didn't have enough time to because my mind wasn't to the screener but uh one thing that is the wild card in our case is we're actually our house where we live at we're actually living in a camper right

now uh not not uh permanently just temporarily until we get our house built. We are building a house right now. Oh, Jesus. Yes, yes. And I know what you say about building a house. We did it wrong, but we're almost to the end of it, and we're going to be happy with the result. But if I could, in retrospect, go on.

That doesn't change the answer about your business no i mean if you're if you're making 3 500 towards 4 500 towards 5 500 in your construction business that's going to assist in a new baby coming that's going to assist in finishing the house that's going to assist in you running your life. If you go take a job making $3,000 a month, period, and you got a J-O-B, you're not going to make as much as if you go run this business well. But the honest question you have to do is you have to quit getting distracted by 63,000 things. If you're over there working on a stupid house instead of earning money to feed your family, see, that's a distraction.

And so that house may slow way down while you speed this business up. Because, Patrick, if you've got the emotional energy with the tragedy you all have been through to go get after it on this business, you need to completely focus on making, stacking cash, making a big old pile of money. And if you all need to go rent an apartment get out of the trailer because you had a pregnant wife that's not a bad thing and then take an extra year to finish a stupid house i'm fine the house is the least of my worries you grow in this career take care of your family is the number one job and if you don't have the emotional bandwidth to do that

and get out of that trailer with a pregnant wife camping trailer by the way uh then then you do need to go take a job so but but the job is going to be less money than you could make if you can pull it together for the business i think so too i think he just needs to add a couple more services on there and just get after it do whatever work you can do just take everything and go and make a profit on all of it and go and make a profit and go and go and go and you can clean up and decide what i don't want to do that kind of thing anymore later but right now you're doing it swinging a hammer swinging a brush uh you know digging a hole whatever it is you're doing get it done and do a bunch of it all the time and charge a lot and smile and smile and go make you some money there is nothing wrong with that all you're doing is taking care

of people's problems um but you know job one is baby and wife uh job two is to grow your business to take care of them dealing with a stupid butt construction house is way down the list of things you got to be worrying about right now so uh if that thing sits nothing for a little while i'm okay with that um but you don't you know you don't need to be over there working at night when you could be working at night making money for your family so right now you don't have the time you don't have the bandwidth to be swinging a hammer on that job you're gonna swing a hammer on somebody else's job it's giving you money so that's what we're gonna focus on is making money and you the good news is you're in a business that

you just soon as you start putting the word out and you just tell people and you just go get another one then go get another one then go get another one you're gonna make a lot of money that's right oh yeah people always need something done. People always need some handiwork done, whether it's put me some bathroom tiles in, change out my bathtub. There's always something that's going on. Always. Always. This is The Ramsey Show. Jade Walsh, all Ramsey personality, is my co--host today you do not have to lose sleep worrying about your money anymore we want you to come to the ramsey campus for the total money makeover weekend on may 10th and 11th and we're going to show you how to get control of your life

how would it feel to know that you're going to be out of debt so that you could become wealthy, so that you could become outrageously generous? How would that feel? What would that do for your relationships, for your hope? It's what we do, and we're going to do that Friday afternoon, all day Saturday, May 10th and 11th, the Total Money Makeover Weekend. Not only how to get out of debt, but how to become an investor and how to be generous, how to work with your spouse. Ken Coleman's going to be speaking on increasing your income. Dr. John Deloney on increasing your peace. Jade Walsh, I'll be speaking.

George Camel, Rachel Cruz, and me. And so all of us, all the Ramsey personalities are going to be here we're going to have lots of q and a's it's going to be very experiential and you're going to laugh you're going to cry and you're going to come away knowing you can do this bring your spouse that's reluctant they will leave crazier than you are bring your friend who thinks you're crazy and they will leave really crazy doing this stuff it's going to be a lot of fun jade i'm excited about this i'm excited too i can't wait our platinum plus tickets are already sold out you can still get a platinum ticket a vip ticket or a general admissions ticket at ramsey solutions

dot com slash events suggest you get them now may 10th and 11th is coming up really, really fast. It's here on the campus at the Ramsey Event Center. I'm excited to get to do a Total Money Makeover event right here in our own backyard and excited that a bunch of you are coming from all over the place to be here. You do not want to miss this event. It is life-changing. Grayson is with us in Nebraska. Hi, Grayson. How are you?

Hi, good. How are you? Hi, good. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? Hi. So my husband and I have been looking at our financial goals, and it's just looking like it's going to take a long time to get over some humps. And so my question is basically, do I need to be patient or should we make changes?

Well, tell us the timeline so we can chime in. So I don't know the timeline exactly, but right now we have about $8,500 in our savings account, which is a little bit over our three-month savings. Okay. And we're wanting to save for a house we're renting right now. And I'm a stay-at-home mom. My husband makes $57,500. Right now, it's going to go up to $65,000 soon. Okay. And so you're trying to save for a down payment for a house. That's the goal.

Right. And we are not investing yet. So we also want to start doing that. I'm 23. He's also 23. Okay. So what percentage down are you trying to get to? What's the goal number? I mean, we want to do it the 20% for a 15-year fix. Yeah, that's the ideal. Okay, and so what does that mean for you on the size house you're trying to get? How much money do you need? I guess I don't know for sure how much money we need because of, like, house prices fluctuating. We don't know exactly what kind of house we're going to want

but so how is it that you know if you're off track or impatient i mean you don't you don't have your if you have a target and a date and you don't think you're going to hit that target and date then you can ask you you know there's a hump there's a problem but right now you're just right now you've just got a general idea. We'd like to get a house someday. Oh, okay. Well, I'd like to get into a house quickly, but it seems like it's going to be... What is quickly? I guess in the next, like, three years. Okay, and so how much can you save a year?

A year, I don't know, but I know monthly we save about $700. Okay, that's $8,400 a year. In three years, you'll have $24,000. Okay. You just need to do a little bit, you need to dig down and do some research on this and really get your head around the numbers. And then, okay, to Dave's point, you'll have $24,000. Go over and do the how much home can I afford calculator on RamseySolutions.com. And then you're going to be able to plug in the numbers, look at real estate in your area, look at what 20% of a down payment would be and put real weight to these numbers and see

what's actually possible. And then you can look at that and go, okay, if 24,000 doesn't get it, what do I need to save? And then you can actually have a real target. Yeah. What have I got to pick up as a side job while I'm working while i'm at home with the babies and what can he do to pick up his income also above 65 so we can do more than 8400 and because if he made an extra ten thousand dollars a year on the side uh then for three years that's another 30 000 instead of 20 000 down we're now

talking about 50 000 that changes the game so that's that's how you start backing into this and figuring out if you're impatient or not if you told me you wanted fifty thousand by the end of this year to buy a house you make sixty five thousand dollars a year and you don't have any money then i would say yeah you're impatient unrealistic there's not any math in your story that's going to take you there right but that's not what you're saying and so you're three years if you're 23 you're going to be you're going to 26. That's not a bad timeline. I kind of like that timeline.

If it takes one more year, so what? Not the end of the world. We at least are aiming at something. We've got a game plan, and we're talking this through. Yeah. But all good financial goals have a longer time horizon, meaning bad financial goals lead you to doing nothing but partying thank god it's friday oh god it's monday long-term financial goals are thinking the way you're

thinking okay where am i going to be when i'm 26 where am i going to be when i'm 23 now and what have i got to do to get to those things that we're not doing now? What must be true that's not true now to hit that desired future, as Henry Cloud says? And then, you know, then you're going to be there. But I don't hear anything that's completely in dreamland or la-la land here. I think this is all doable. You've probably just got to think through, you know, what other, if we want to do this in two years or three years and we want price x if we want a $250,000 house then no you're not going to be ready at $24,000. You know I think to your point Dave you're right there usually is an extended timeline and I think people

kind of get weirded out thinking oh my gosh I'm going to have to be disciplined for this amount of time. You're going to be disciplined the rest of your life. Yeah. It's easy to be disciplined for. And you don't have to. It's just if you want the house, that's what you have to do. Yeah, that's right. If you don't want the house, then you don't have to be disciplined. That's right. But it's not going to be proof.

This is how you get things is you make the money behave. And so that's what you're facing, Grayson. I think you're in better shape maybe than your emotions feel like you are. But I think it'll help the emotions if you lay down a detailed plan of exactly A, where we want to go, and B, how are we going to get there? And what are the steps to get there? And then what have we got to do different that we're not doing now to accelerate that plan? And you can start to have those discussions around that. That makes a lot of sense. So good question, by the way. So here's an interesting thing.

There's a lot of squawking and carrying on that Gen Z can't buy a house. It's impossible. Well, it is if you make $57,000 a year and you live in San Francisco. 100%. And you're 23. You're not going to buy a house there. Yeah, that is impossible. Yeah, that's true.

So you can't. But does that mean you can't buy a house? No. You can live in Omaha, Nebraska. And you know what? $200,000 to buy in Omaha. A nice house. Mm- Omaha. A nice house. A nice house.

With some cornfields in the back. Guaranteed. Guaranteed. There's some cornfields in the back. But yeah, the old corn huskers, right? But I mean, it's, and probably some pheasants. But yeah, the, so, but the point is, is that you've got to say, okay, my income and my dreams and my location, all three have to be aligned.

That's right. And so when I started the show 30 years ago, the idea of living in Manhattan, downtown New York City, if you made $60,000 a year, and $60,000 a year 30 years ago is a lot of money. It was. It was impossible. You couldn't do it. You're kidding.

You can't live in 60. You can't. Couldn't do it. And you can't do it now either. So, you know, it has to do with lining up your dreams with your realities instead of just wishing things were different. And Grayson's doing just that. That's why she's going to win.

This is The Ramsey Show. We'll see you next time.