The Ramsey Show - App - This Is Why Dave Is Against Debt (Hour 2)

Episode Date: November 21, 2022

Dave Ramsey & Dr. John Delony discuss: Why Dave avoids debt, Dealing with drama on home repairs, Negotiating a salary. Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Pods Moving and Storage Studio, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. We help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author,

is my co-host today as we take your questions about your life and your money. Open phones at 888-825-5225. David is calling from Saigon, Vietnam. I think that's my first call from Saigon in 30 years. David, how are you? Hi, I'm good, thanks. How are you? Good. What are you doing in Saigon? Living abroad. I've been living, my wife and I have been living abroad for about 16 years, but our investments and properties are in the U.S. Cool. What do you do for a living?

International educator. Okay. I teach. I was going to say, that sounded a lot like Art Vandele's importer-exporter from Seinfeld. I've got a good friend whose brother lives in Saigon that is in your business, and I'm wondering if you're him. Anyway, yeah. All right.

Go ahead, brother. How can we help? Maybe I know him. Well, okay, we're big fans of the Baby Steps. We've done them all. We've done them all except for one, and I might get in trouble from you on this one, and that is that we have two rental properties that are turning a profit, and we don't want to pay off the rest of the mortgage because we feel like we're making more having that money invested in the market.

And I know you, with your baby steps, I highly recommend paying off those mortgages. We're thinking, why do that if we can make more if that money is in the market? Can you share your wisdom oh you want to know why i said that oh i see okay and how much money share how much money do you have in investments a little over a million good for you well done how old are you uh 57 excellent and how much are these mortgages? They're about $170 each. So $340 knocks it out, and that leaves you with $660 in your investment if we use that investment to Google to do that, okay?

Is that right? Yes. Okay. And so really what we're discussing is how much more you would make on $340,000 over the interest on the houses. Okay? Yes. Now, here's the thing. I first approached this through the lens of faith was my first approach because I have all the letters and licenses after my name,

the academic crap that says I'm supposed to know something about money, but I went broke. So apparently I did something wrong um and i and so i discovered uh common sense and what the bible says about money and i can't find anywhere as a christian this is my my journey not yours okay i can't find anywhere in the bible ever that says anything positive about debt it's not a salvation issue you're not going to hell because you have debt. It's not a God loves you less if you have debt. It's all negative, though. The borrower is slave to the lender.

And it goes on and on and on and on and on. All the negative references from that. So as part of my faith walk, I had to say, okay, God must know something that I don't understand about debt because I was taught if you can borrow money at, you know, 3%, 4%, 5% on your mortgage and you can invest it in a mutual fund and make 10 or 12, then you're making that spread, that arbitrage, which is what you're discussing, correct? Yes, exactly.

Now, as I've gone forward, what I've discovered is that the vast majority of wealthy people that we've studied, people of faith or otherwise, have avoided debt and gotten out of debt and have stayed away from it. And I kind of had to stop and go, why is that? I find very few people. Now, you're not highly leveraged, but I find very few people that are highly leveraged that actually survive the people that borrow money like crazy to buy rental properties and do an airbnb and all this crap they're all broke in 10 years i went broke doing that within within 10 years and so you can't find someone that's been doing that for 20 years and survived one of these economic cycles takes their head off and so what that means is that debt equals risk more debt equals more risk and i think we can all agree to that can you uh yes yeah you have little you have a small amount

of debt so it doesn't feel like a lot of risk it's not as much risk as if you had 3.4 million agreed correct yeah now that's all i'm saying more debt debt is more risk. Less debt is less risk. Zero debt is approaching zero risk. And the only math formula I have found that adjusts for risk does not exist in the real estate world. It's only in the investment world. And we adjust for risk using the math formula of a beta is the height of a uh if you do peaks and valleys of an investment it goes up and down up and down up and down the the difference in the valley the difference in the peak and the valley is called a beta you're and it's your the higher beta is a higher volatility a a steeper mountain and a more often cycle does that make sense yes and in the investment world we use a beta the higher the beta the higher the risk because the more volatile it is and we use an inverse relationship in the math meaning you drop it under the denominator and get nerdy here but the that gives you the ability to calculate risk

into the investment and measure a risky investment against a not so risky investment that has a lower beta and you've you've neutralized for risk therefore you can compare them apples to apples we don't enter risk into the formula that you used to tell me you wanted to keep your debt if we put risk in that formula and you do have some risk not as much as if you had 3.4 million but if we put a low beta in your formula it starts to neutralize and do away with all your spread the other thing that happens is when you don't have any payments you just straight up sleep better that's true and i've done a high and i've done detailed research a hundred percent of the foreclosures occur on a house with a mortgage and so i i would tell you this let's

do this you could try this if you want to i would pay them both off and if you hate it, go get you another mortgage later. Okay. Okay, fair enough. Can I ask you another question, a follow-up question, Matt? You should be scared to after that long answer. Back in stats class. If we do yank all that money out, we're going to pay through the nose in taxes, pulling it all out of all of our retirement investments. How old are you?

Oh, you're 57. No, I would not take it out of retirement. pulling it all out of all of our retirement investments. How old are you? Oh, you're 57. No, I would not take it out of retirement. Is it all in retirement? Yeah, this is all. You don't have any money that's not in retirement? We have, yeah, we have some. How much? We have a couple hundred.

Well, I'd use that then. Ta-da! And you have a good income. No, I'm not going to cash out and pay penalties on your retirement. I was not that then. Ta-da! Yeah. And you have a good income, and I would just, no, I'm not going to cash out and pay penalties on your retirement. I was not suggesting that, because that changes the formula. Now, you may have some capital gains on it, and I would do that. I have lived 100% debt-free since I went broke 30-something years ago, and I have had a wonderful

life. I've made a lot of money. I have a lot of investments, and they're all paid for. And when crap happens, like the of Misfit Toys is misbehaving up in Washington D.C. right now and they're screwing up the whole freaking economy, I'm sitting here peaceful and slept really good last

night except that my four-year-old grandson put a plastic snake under my pillow. But other than that, I slept great last night. That really did happen. Good for him. I told him his new name is Sneaky Snake. I like it. That's his new nickname.

When I go to his rehearsal dinner in 24 years, I'm going to introduce him to Sneaky Snake. That's it. I'm going to throw that snake at him. I'm saving it. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. Dr. John Deloney Ramsey, is my co-host today. JC is with us in Fort Worth. Hey, JC, what's up? Hey, happy Thanksgiving.

Happy Thanksgiving to you. How can we help? Well, I'm calling today because I'm feeling very overwhelmed about our house and really not sure what to do about it. The short story is that since August, we've had some major home repairs totaling about $40,000 that are going to send us back into consumer debt because we don't have that kind of cash in the bank. So I guess my question is, at what point do we cut our losses and say goodbye to this house? Okay, what kind of home repairs pop up so suddenly and unexpectedly? Right. So we had to get our HVAC replaced in August. When we bought the house, it was only

two years old, which we thought, you know, was a dream. What did you pay for that? So the HVAC was about 15 we got the lowest fear that we could so you paid for that that's done um no we had to finance that so you had no money when you moved in the house well so we moved into the house in 2019 um and you had no money when your when your hvac went out so we have we have about 13 000 in the bank and so we could pay for most of it yes but you didn't no we did not okay so what is it you want to, so you're trying to decide whether to keep the house. What was the other thing that went wrong? Yeah. So the foundation, basically with the drought that we had in Texas this summer, the house

was falling apart at the seams, major cracks. So we actually had gotten a quote for the foundation a couple years ago, and it was only $4,000 at the time. And then we ended up waiting on it, and it ended up being a lot more. So that was $95,000. And then to validate. What was $95,000? You've already done it? Yeah.

So you've already financed that too? Yes. Oh, I thought you told me you had to do these repairs, and then you were going to be in debt so you've already made all these decisions well there's one more decision that we have to make okay um and so to validate the warranty for the the lifetime the um the lifetime warranty on the foundation we need to pass a plumbing test and we failed that and the minimum repairs for that are 13 000 but they're not entirely sure that that's going to fix it they the same people that did the foundation did the plumbing repair no no it was a different company. Are they friends? Yes, they are.

BS. And I've been working on getting them. Yes, they can trench up your entire yard for less than that. That's absolute BS. Okay. I'd call another company to come out and certify it. I'm calling BS. I'm calling a lawyer.

You're going to certify this dadgum foundation that you put in for $10,000 today. Period. this dadgum foundation that you put in for ten thousand dollars today period this idea that i have to get plumbing done from your friend before i get your warranty on work you did bs i'm about to bust somebody in the chops okay i don't think you're going to do it, are you? Because you're convinced that the whole damn thing's falling down. Yeah, I am. You're right. And I think you want to sell it because you're mad at the house. Very true, yes.

So what's this piece of garbage worth? It's probably worth about, well, maybe 300 000 it might be a little we might have to you know take a little bit less on it now with what do you owe on it slowing down about 180 okay all right uh i think you're going to sell your house because i think you hate your house yeah but i also think you got to figure out a way to start living your life without drama to drama to debt to debt yeah it's not going because you're always going to have drama around the house and you're going to have to you're going to finish you're going to finish borrowing money on it and you're going to think differently about the process but i i don't know about your husband but i do know about his wife. She's tired of this house. She's ready to move. I think my husband is more tired than I am, actually.

I mean, but now you're going to get everything all fixed. I'm not doing the plumbing. Bozo that did the repair on the foundation is about to issue me a warranty, or I'm about to come after him for doing work that he can't warranty. This is a problem. This is a problem. This is a problem. And I smell a rat, and it stinks. So could be wrong.

Not calling him a crook. Just saying sure does look like one. And so that's what I'm doing. And then I'm going to put the house on the market and sell the crap out of it and move. And this time buy something that and listen and then and then stop this garbage stop all this justification and we're stuck and it's the only thing we can do we're trapped and all this stuff happens to us you're going to have to happen to it

right and it's time that you guys get control of this stuff and if you buy a house in the dfw area you're going to have foundation challenges you're gonna have air conditioning i mean that just just got to make peace with that if you're gonna be a homeowner in some of those areas yeah yeah which means you can't like you mentioned you can't buy a house you don't have any money and you also get a good home inspection before you buy the house right yeah and um you should know with a good home inspection if you have more than two years of life left in the hvac yes um you got got a 12-year-old HVAC? It's coming shortly.

Get ready. You know what I mean? It's working perfect now. Yeah, it won't be for long. It's coming at you. I mean, you got a four-year-old HVAC? You should get more than two more years out of it. Hello.

So, I mean, this is basic stuff. These things have a life and a lifespan, and the lifespan is only so long. You said it, Dave, and it reminds me. JC, you're going to sell this house. You're going to buy a new house. And if you don't quickly and dramatically deal with the drama in your home, with how you all handle money, how you all handle each other, how you handle um

yolo versus we're going to say slow down and save up for stuff you're going to realize in short order you're going to buy a new house and you and your husband went with you and they are going to show up at that new house there's going to be more we need this we got to buy this and we got to have this and this is going to break and the whole cycle starts over again yeah part of me thinks the spiritual exercise would be to sit there for a couple three months six months and make peace with your relationship with your husband and y'all make peace with decision making and then get into something else you're not going to do that but man there's something about running from mess to mess to mess you said it dave you got to deal with the drama or it's just gonna follow

you it's gonna follow you follow you follow you follow you this the drama or it's just going to follow you. It's going to follow you, follow you, follow you, follow you. This is Thanksgiving. It's probably not a bad idea to sell your house in the spring rather than at Christmas. So, you know, in terms of market timing or whatever. So it might be it's okay. Yeah, go ahead and bust on the foundation guy. Get that certified and then just sit there. Enjoy the new property. Get it, you know, start, you know, spend a month or two cleaning it up.

Get ready to sell. Start talking about putting it on the market in march and in the meantime in the meantime get your head around okay we're gonna control these controllables these variables coming at us are not going to control us and uh when you live from stress to stress to crisis to crisis debt to debt um it's a cycle that you have to intellectually in an act of your will break that cycle and it's not easy to do um i was the same way i mean uh we're at our house ramses we are built in drama queens oh i mean we can add drama to anything so it's one of my spiritual gifts man so i and crone created a a tenth enneagram for me just for you just drama

queen drama queen number 10 on the enneagram that's right and so yeah that's it and uh you know so i understand what you're doing but one of the things i had to do is i had to break myself from feeling like these circumstances were controlling me these things coming at me were controlling me and there's that sense of power of backing up three steps and go, eh, maybe not. Maybe not. Maybe we're not using your buddy to fix the plumbing. Maybe we're just going to bust you in the nose.

Maybe not. Yeah, it's a whole different way of looking at things. This is The Ramsey personality, is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the Debt Free Stage. Chris and Brianna are with us. Hey guys, how are you? Hey, we're great. Welcome. Where do y'all live? Atlanta, Georgia. Oh, cool. Welcome to Nashville. And all the way here to do a debt-free scream. How much did you pay off? $76,840.94. Love it. How long did this take?

27 months. Wow. And your range of income during that time? After taxes, it was $140,000 to $150,000. Awesome. What do you all do for a living? I'm a counselor and a virtual health and fitness coach. And I own a small landscaping company.

Oh, very good. Very good. Good careers, both of you. What kind of debt was the $77,000? It was mostly student loans and then the rest of it. So about $53,000 was student loans and then the rest of it was consumer debt. How long have you been out of school?

Oh, I've been out of school since 2004. We've been borrowing money since we got married. Yes. Okay. 22 years. 22 years. 22 years. But 30 months ago, 27 months ago, what happened? What turned the corner for you?

I mean, you changed. Well, I lost my temper one day after a long, hard day in the hot sun. I was working a lot. We were dealing with a lot. This is COVID. I mean, 27 months ago in the middle of covid right so we really had this conversation right before covid hit yeah okay and so at the time we did have six kids in the house at that time um and so we had a lot of stress and then yeah

finances were tight and then it was a long hot day and then what happened and then i said we got to do something different this ain't working and that kind of uh rounded off the edges on that a little bit but um and so the next day we were at church and uh like for real what'd you do like you can't just leave that's like that's like in middle school when somebody came up to me because i know someone who likes you and they don't tell you what? I just lost my temper. All right. I have a bad temper. All right. And so we heard about your class at Twelve Stone Church. Oh, yeah.

And so we took the class. Mm-hmm. Okay. And like you said, COVID hit right in the middle of it. Yeah. So we kind of finished up online. Yeah. But it was a hard decision because I was all I was gung-ho

um and she wasn't so much so right I mean he I I we had just lived with debt for so long like there was just a part of me that didn't really believe that we could get out of it and so um and he is very all or nothing and I'm very in the gray. And so approaching the steps, you know, was a challenge as far as communication goes and all of that. But we did it. And is this one of many schemes you've presented her over the years? Or was this? Listen, we don't got to get into all that.

But I mean, there could have been a bunch of opportunities. Yes. And this was just another, and she was like, all right. Yeah, I've always been an entrepreneur. Okay. i've always tried stuff on my own yeah okay so brianna what what finally brought you around where you said i'm into well i mean i'm gonna support whatever he wants to do and so i just was like um decided to trust the process i mean i i knew the principles at what point because you didn't at first well tell the truth i mean you didn't at first. Well tell the truth. I mean I didn't at first but I did it even without even without believing it. So so yeah so I behaviorally I was all in but in my head I mean I even told my best friends like there's no way this is going to

work for us honestly. And then we kept doing it. When did you start believing in your head that it would work? I would say about six months in once we got like Once we really had stuff paid off and we were only getting to the student loans, then I was like, I could see the real traction was happening. And then last August, we still had like $29,000 left. And he's like, I want it paid off by the time the kids get out of school. And that would have been May. And I was like, there's no way we're going to do this. And then we did it. We sent our last payment in may before they got out of school that year yes so how'd y'all how'd y'all make it in that last sprint i mean we just got tighter we just got tighter and tighter and every single i mean anything extra they came into the house went

any extra paychecks went any extra money went um we were cutting we were budgeting we had sold extra furniture around the house and by now you believe oh yeah yeah now i believe now you're all in now i'm all in the story yeah absolutely that makes a difference too that changes the numbers yeah yeah that's very cool good for you how has this changed your marriage well i mean we're not fighting about money yeah we don't we don't fight about money we've never really fought like hardcore about stuff but um we we did more of the uh we just won't talk about it and everything will be okay we've always been good earners we just didn't really you were even better spenders yeah we just didn't manage we didn't manage our money well so our money didn't really

change that much i mean as you can see from the numbers it only went up 10 000 so it's all just behavioral stuff so when you came home from that long hot day in the sun before covid starts and this whole thing happens was um what what you were mad about money a money thing i was mad that i was working so hard and we had no money okay that's what i meant yeah it's a it's a disgusted yeah yeah i've been there yeah i'm sick and tired of being money okay that's what i meant yeah it's a it's a disgusted yeah yeah i've been there yeah i'm sick and tired of being sick and tired yeah yeah i work too dead gum hard we make a hundred and something thousand dollars we got nothing yep that that mad that's a good mad i like that one that's righteous anger that causes you to change your life yeah that's good very well done guys well done very powerful what do you when look back, what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is?

Passion, for me. You've got to get after it, as you say a lot. I'm outside a lot, so I listen to the show a lot. I'm able to listen to my headphones most of the day. I felt like just staying intense and pushing the envelope and trying to make as much money as I could. Yeah, that'll make you work harder when it's going somewhere, when you can see the traction. Yeah.

Yeah, you can work extra hours. You can do all kinds of stuff. Yeah. Good for you. Very well done. What about you, Brianna? What do you say the secret was? I think the secret was to start before you're ready and to just trust the process.

Ooh. Yeah, there's something about acting your way into this. Like, I'm going to trust the process. It's like the indiana jones you know when he just takes that step and i'm gonna take the next step he could have sat there and and intellectualize the whole thing but he just started walking right and good for you and you you you walked the path and suddenly it began to reveal itself oh this is gonna happen right yes good for you good for you it's powerful very well done y'all thank you proud of you and you brought the kiddos with you have them come up what are their names and ages

come on up we've got emma she is 11 and then we have ivy is 9 and then gavin is 13 and then we have an older one at home ryan he's watching the house and the dog so he's 18 so it's a good thing okay very, very cool. Very cool. Well, well done, you guys. Very well done. Hey, we've got the Live and Give bundle for you. That's the Total Money Makeover book,

the new Baby Steps Millionaires book, both number one bestsellers for you to use or give away, and a one-year membership to Financial Peace University. You've been through it, but that'll be something you can give away as well. And you'll enjoy, certainly, the Baby Steps baby steps millionaire book that's the next chapter in your story you're on your way so proud of y'all thank you well done thank you you conquered one of the most difficult territories to conquer and that's the guy in the mirror yeah it's very difficult well done very well done and we can see it on you we can see the body language it's it's very powerful good job thank you good job

all right chris and brianna gavin emma and ivy wow 77 000 paid off in 27 months making 140 to 150 after i got sick and tired of being sick and tired count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two one we're debt-free that's how it's done wow wow what's our friend's name i cannot place it who wrote the book and he talks about the only positive uh or the most one of those positive emotions is the emotion of anger um uh seven oh dodd chip chip dot thank you chip dot yeah the anger is the one that has action associated with it and uh you know we we always

we're all everybody's so worried about toxic versions of anger but there's a good anger that moves you off your get you off your butt. Yeah, it points you towards something that you care about, and it helps you recognize this isn't how things should be, and I'm headed right in the middle of it. It puts you on a personal crusade. Crusades are not born of anything but anger, and it's a righteous kind of an anger, not toxic. No one's getting hurt with this, but I got mad. That's a good kind of mad. I like that. And one's getting hurt with this. But I got mad. That's a good kind of mad.

I like that. And I'm not just going to sit here and stamp my feet. I'm going to do something. I'm not going to take it anymore. It's the old song from the 80s. Twisted Sister, baby. That's it. That's it. I wish I had more hair.

This is the Ramsey Show. Субтитры подогнал «Симон» Dr. John Deloney Ramsey, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. If you've gone through Financial Peace University, chances are you did it because someone in your life lit a fire under your butt. Mom and Dad gave it to you as a gift. Your pastor offered it at the church. A friend that wouldn't stop talking about it. You finally took the class. You started working the baby steps.

Now everything's different, just like our last step, free scream. You change your entire future. Now you can light a fire under someone else. There you go. This Christmas you can give someone you care about Financial Peace University and share the same hope that you've discovered with money. Right now we're offering Financial Peace University at the lowest price we ever have, $59.99. Wow.

That includes all nine lessons, the premium version of EveryDollar, and group financial coaching. This deal, I promise you, will not last. This is a Christmastime special, so you can give. This Christmas, give the people you care about a gift that actually matters, and that gift is called hope. It's called freedom. To get Financial Peace University for just $59.99,

go to RamseySolutions.com slash give FPU. See, we're kind of in the deflation business right here. I was going to say, I think you've gotten the inflation message. I didn't get the memo on our pricing. It's just the season to make things more expensive. We've got permission to do so, Dave.

Yeah, and I didn't listen. So apparently our marketing people didn't. That's ramseysolutions.com slash givefpu. That's the way you get it for $59 and you can give it away. Adam is with us in San Antonio. Hey, Adam, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave, thanks for taking the call. Sure, what's up? Well, I currently live and work in San Antonio, and I just got a job offer in Dallas.

Now, I bought the house. It's currently at about $320,000. I got an equity of $160,000 in it, and a 3.75% interest rate. Now, the job sounds great, but how much should I take as a bonus or a raise to take this new job if I know when I get a new house out there, it's going to be at 7%, almost 8% versus my 3.75%. I'm currently making about 86 after everything but before taxes. And they're offering you what? Well, we haven't gotten into negotiations yet. I mean, we're throwing some numbers back and

forth at each other but i mean i just know that's gonna take a lot more out of my paycheck paying that extra interest rate every month well i i don't think you what you get paid somewhere is based on the interest rate of your house yes i think what you get paid somewhere is based on the interest rate of your house. Yes. I think what you get paid somewhere is what the market value at the time of the job is. My question is... I mean, if you cut your interest rate in half and you got a one point whatever, one and a half percent rate on it um you wouldn't expect to get paid less no i guess i'm just asking uh at what point is it worth moving so i i think you i think you've got to back out of this here's what troubles me about this mindset it says it's like you're uncertain of the job you just accepted or about to accept, and you're making it their responsibility to cover certain things.

This is a math problem, man. Come up with, I need this much money to make this move, and if it can't work, we'll shake hands, and great. If the market doesn't demand what they're able to pay in that area. But you're making them somehow fill it. What would make it fun do you think um with uh work i'd have to be doing uh i don't know 94 95 okay what do you think they're going to offer you uh hopefully around there i mean uh this is doing what it's assessing buildings after, uh, hurricanes and disasters.

Okay. And you're an engineer. Did you say, uh, we do, um, forensic engineer work assessing buildings, hospitals after disasters. Yeah. I got you. Have you just not, what is, what's making you hesitant on them to do anything? The main thing is, uh, I just know that's going to take more out of my paycheck every month.

Sure. But I've taken several jobs in my professional career at less money because it was better for the season I was in, and it was going to provide an opportunity for me to make significantly more money down the road. Yeah, 10 years from now, do you want to be in Dallas doing this or San Antonio doing this? 10 years from now, do you want to be in Dallas doing this or San Antonio doing this? 10 years from now, you want to be working for the new company or your current company?

Probably the new one. Probably what? The new one. The new one, okay. All right, and so if you end up netting a little less, and that's all the job is worth, because I don't know what that's worth. I have no idea in Dallas, Texas. They might offer you $140,000 for all I know.

It sounds like it's arbitrary. I shouldn't even worry about this at this point. I mean, I'm making enough. I'm comfortable. I shouldn't let that math scare me away from a good job. It's short-term. You want to make the decision based on long-term variables, not the short-term variables. But I'm concerned as to why you are hesitant to put a number out on the table and say this is

what it's going to take to get me i would rather them put the first number out because it might be more than i was good that's true yeah all right i need 95 or i'm not coming they're all going to giggle and be like you got it dude yeah why don't you see what they're offering have you asked him point blank what's the no not yet the negotiation is just beginning he said okay right yeah we've got another one coming up yeah i would just talk about i would do the best thing you can do in negotiating in general is listen and let them talk and then just say gosh i'm you know one of the things i'm struggling with has nothing to do with what the job is worth i want to come over there and add value and the job is worth what

the job is worth but i've got a real good interest rate and i'm not going to have one if i move and and that's kind of coming into my math so what are you all thinking and just you know that's kind of you know but you're you know i i would not say if you're coming to me, I'm an employer, I've got 1,000, almost 1,100 people here, and you say, I want more money because my interest rate is higher, I'm going to say no. Yes. Because that's not a reason for me to pay you more. The reason I pay you more is you're worth more. Not because, or the job pays more.

Not because you've got a higher interest rate. You see what I'm saying? The value of the position is the value of the position and um and it might be that in this shortage of labor economy that we have with a great resignation the way things are right now that they're going to offer you north of 100 i kind of think that by the way yeah it wouldn't surprise me so i'd be real quiet and let them put a number out and then just smile and here's and here's a little negotiating tip just for fun you can just play with this if you want to mess with it it's a great little negotiating line no matter what they say just

smile and go wow that's impressive thank you so much um is there any more you can do and just ask and smile just go can you do anything else because they probably got a little bit of something in you know just to see what comes out i mean is that the best you can do i'm laughing right now because i asked you that exact question and you said nope well i've taught this on videos and i assumed you had watched the video oh man oh my god i learned that exact conversation i know right where we were nope this is it this is what we're doing. And I lost like a sucker. You didn't lose. You're here.

I won big. You didn't lose. You're on Jordan Peterson this week. I won big. Love it. Too fun. Yeah, that's the thing. Always approach a job not by what you need, but by what the position is worth.

And that's a good thing. thing and how can i add value because all employers have this formula folks all of us do and the formula is i need to make more on you than you cost me right otherwise i've got a whole bunch of people in the building and i'm losing money this is called layoffs are coming right and when someone comes in and says well i've got this degree and i'm worth this much or i've got this much experience and I'm worth this much. Great. But your disposition is not going to make me that back. I can't afford to do that, right?

I had a guy back in the day. There was only about 25 of us. And he came in and he said, you know, I've got this degree and this degree. And he had more degrees than a thermometer. I mean, he was unbelievable. And he's like, and if I was working at a Fortune 500 company, here's what I'd be making. And I said, well, this is a small business, son business son in a small business your race is effective when you are we don't really give a crap what your degrees are you kill something drag it home man we'll

save we'll share it with you but you stand around beating your chest about where you went to school all you're gonna get is a sore chest i mean, I remember when I first started here, I asked one of the HR folks, hey, where do I send my transcripts? And they started laughing. He said, you can keep them. We believe you. Well played. We believe you.

Oh, that's fun stuff. This is The Ramsey Show. Dave here. You can find all of our shows with the Ramsey Network app on your smartphone. It's the only place to listen to the entire back catalog of episodes. Download the Ramsey Network app in your favorite app store today.