The Ramsey Show - App - This Is Your Brain on Debt

Episode Date: November 7, 2024

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my good friend and best-selling author, Dr. John Deloney. And we are answering your questions about life, money, relationships, career, anything and everything. So give us a call at 888-825-5225. All right, we're going to go to the phones, and is it Torin from Boston? Hey, welcome to the show. Hey, guys. Thank you guys for taking my call. Absolutely. Is it Torin? Did I get that right? Yep, that's perfect. Awesome. What's up? So I'm an 18-year-old, and I'm a senior in high school

this year, and I wanted pretty much advice on what to tell my parents about college. I've been watching you guys for a while now. And, uh, I know the biggest thing was, you know, don't go into debt. Don't take out loans. If you can try and cashflow it.

So I figured I would want to go to a cheaper school. I was in Massachusetts. So it's a community college is free. So I figured I would go there and I could transfer to a state school where, uh, it's an a hundred percent acceptance rate after out of the community college I wanted to go to. And my parents were very against this idea. They wanted me to go play a sport in college and go to a private university.

They told me that doesn't matter. And, yeah, I just wanted to make sure I was making the right decision because they don't agree with it. Are they paying for it? No, they're not paying for it. Yeah, they don't agree with it. Are they paying for it? No, they're not paying for it. Yeah, they don't get a vote then. I brought that up, but they said they're going to be kicking me out. They'll also pay for housing.

They'll also take the car and my phone away. I mean, if they want to throw a grown-up temper tantrum, that's like the most babiest thing I've ever... Wait, yeah, I want to know more. Why? That's so... That feels very extreme It's one thing if your parents turn their nose up at community college

Because they're very educated It's like, oh my gosh, I can't believe you're going to go to community college But to kick you out And take your car and your phone Is there a religious element to this? Like to go to a Catholic school Or any level of a religion Conviction there?

No, I don't really understand why They just of like a religion conviction there no I don't really understand why they just said it would look bad on resumes and I think I'm making the wrong decision they said I was being pretty rude about it so I think that's why well if I have no problem with the parents saying hey as for me in my house you're going to this school and we're paying for it and if you want to go somewhere else you're on your own I have no problem with that at all. That happens all the time. And if they say,

hey, in this house, we go to Harvard. And so we've created this fund and you're going to Harvard if you get in. I have no problem with that. If they tell you, you will not go to that school that you can afford, which is free. You will go take out loans and put yourself behind for the next 15 years of your life or

20 years of your life depending on what private school you go to and if you don't do that we're going to take your cell phone we're going to take our ball and we're going to go home we're not playing with you anymore that just sounds like real childish immature behavior because because what they're doing is they're they're asking you to have all the skin in the game and they're just going to sit on the sidelines and holler at you. I thought the same thing. I don't really know what their plan was for it. Yeah, is this out of character for them?

Like, were you shocked by this? Or is this like, yeah, yeah, I can see mom and dad doing this? I already knew that they didn't want me living there after I was 18. They said they would help me out a little bit before. It was definitely out of character for them to... My mom said I could keep the car. My dad was very against keeping the car after that.

Were you being a jerk, dude? Were you being an 18-year-old just like a turd? Or were you being kind and thoughtful? I will admit, for the first 30 minutes I was very kind and peaceful. And then I started to... I was not as nice as I should have been to them all right I spent my whole career working with 18 year olds go tell your parents you're sorry all right go be a respectful 18 year old son and say hey I got fired up and I acted like a kid and I'm sorry um I do not want to go into

debt for college and I respect your I respect you want your kids you want to be able to tell your friends that your kid graduated from this college. And I get that you don't like this. Don't say that. That's disrespectful, isn't it? I know. That was me just having a little bit of a mommy dig. But she wants to be able to go to Bridge Club and tell like, well, my kid is.

Rachel, we used to call it the soccer mom scholarship. I worked at one university. We would lose students. We would give somebody a half scholarship i'm sorry our the tuition was i'm making up a number 20 grand yeah and they would go to another school that cost 50 grand but they got a one thousand dollar jv soccer scholarship and we would lose them which is a right it's a it's it's a thirty thousand dollar a year move a hundred twenty thousand dollar move to play jv soccer so that so that parents could be like oh my kids playing on a soccer scholarship

yeah right it costs them money like six figures right it's a thousand dollars but i would tell your parents you're sorry and then you have to make an 18 year old decision yeah and torrent let me say this too okay uh and john's the education nerd. He loves education. So he can maybe back me up on this. Just for perspective. So you're in Boston. And we have friends that came from that area. And the way, even the Northeast, I would say even specifically, the way they view education, there is a high regard.

Like it is everything. When you come to the South, it's important When you come to The south It's important Say it Rachel It's important But it's not life Like there's a belief Of like you can Scratch and claw

And start a business And be as successful As the guy that has The college degree Or that you know I mean Whether you go to college Or not

There's kind of a micro Like just kind of Get in there And you figure it out And you can still Be successful But it doesn't have This air about it Which I'm not saying All New England's have that but I but I do think as an 18 year old

that's growing up in that environment I mean you're in Boston like it's so just know there's a world outside of that not that we have it right necessarily I'm not saying that but but you can be successful you can meet people and network outside of a college like there are ways to live life that is not one path of just, it has to be this prestigious education. If you don't get this, it's going to look bad on resumes. You're never going to get a job.

You're going to be homeless and you're going to die. Like that's not the, that's not the route. That's not right. So just know there is, there is more to life outside of possibly the bubble in which education is talked about in your family. And for whatever it's worth.

John loves it. So I love it, but I've got, I've got a, I've got a, in which education is talked about in your family. And for whatever it's worth. But John loves it. So just maybe he'll talk. But I've got a, I think one of the most mission-minded institutions in the United States can be found inside of community colleges. And for whatever it's worth, my mom, Dr. Deloney, the first Dr. Deloney was my mother, who graduated in her 50s with her PhD, started at a community college as a tenured full professor,

right? So here's what you can do with a community college education, anything you want to. Yep. Period. Maybe you have to work harder to get job number one, fine. But by the way, you're going to transfer out, right? You'll go to a state school or to a private, wherever you end up on a transfer out, right? Yeah'll go to a state school or to a private, wherever you end up, on a transfer out, right? Yeah, there's a program called Mass Transfer, and it guarantees acceptance as well as some other scholarships as long as you maintain a certain grade point average in a community college. Yeah, that's good. You're right on, bro.

And for fun, too, Torrin, just run some numbers on the ROI of the private college that you'd go into debt for, average interest rate on a student loan, how long that would probably take you to pay off when you if you got out of school with an average maybe an above our average salary let's say uh run those numbers out having to repay that starting in a financial hole significantly six figures probably for this school versus getting through it debt free doing the free community college working working, saving up, graduating from state

school, starting off and starting to invest the moment you get your first paycheck because you're going to have money and not be in a hole. Financially, from the math perspective, who comes out ahead? Oh, yeah. So it's just interesting. Especially getting started. All right. Yeah.

And for everybody listening. Good for you, Torrin. I'm proud of you for think outside the box, but be nice to your parents. Yeah, be respectful. Treat your parents with dignity. And for everybody, I love private schools. I've worked at multiple private schools.

I would love for my kids, like, I love private schools. I just don't like parents lobbing grenades at their kids and saying, hey, to prop us up, you go do this thing that's going to cost you 10, 20 years of your life

for making us feel good. I don't like that. Yeah. Hey, you guys, I'm not a fan of the big banks and you probably already know which ones I mean, but I do like credit unions because they're nonprofit organizations that focus on their members. And I'm proud to endorse Fairwinds Credit Union because they share the Ramsey mission of helping people get out of debt and live generously. In fact, they design products to help keep you from going into debt

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But if you prefer the online experience, you can log on to Fairwinds and do anything you could do at a physical location. So go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey to learn more. And while you're there, look at the combined checking and savings account bundle they created just for Ramsey fans to help you take control of your finances. That's Fairwinds, F-A-I-R-W-I-N-D-S dot org slash Ramsey. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. We are taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Up next, we have Linda in Dallas, Texas.

Hey, Linda, welcome to the show. Thank you. Absolutely. How can we help? Well, I'm retired and I get less than $2,000 a month. I can't afford rent and I don't qualify for low-income housing. How do I survive? Yeah, you're in a mess, hon.

How old are you? 68. 68. And is the $2,000 from Social Security? No. $1,905 is from Social Security. Is that in addition to the $2,000 or that's included in the $2,000?

No, that's included in the $2,000. Okay. And where are you getting the other money from? I'm in the middle of a divorce. I'm supposed to be getting pension, part of my ex-husband's pension. Okay. You're supposed to be getting it or that's what you're getting? No, he's paying me.

They're not paying me. Is he going to pay you, though? I don't know. Okay. Do you know when you'll know that? I wonder just how long you'll be in this specific situation for. It's been a while. I'm assuming

after my divorce is finalized I will know. Linda, why are you getting divorced at 68 years old? What happened? Domestic violence. Oh, Lord, I'm sorry. Thank you. There is no easy way to say what I'm about to say, okay?

Is that cool? Sure. I'm sure you're tired of people telling you that same exact line, aren't you? You're tired of lawyers telling you that, and everybody telling you that, aren't you? What's that? That there's no easy way to say what I'm about to say. Oh, yeah, yeah.

There's literally only two things you can do with money. You can spend less of it or you can make more of it. Right. And you simply don't have enough of it coming in. Right. And you simply don't have enough of it coming in. Right. And the only path I see for you is to go find whatever work you can find, whether that's work from home, on a computer, whether that's going in somewhere.

That's it. I've been doing that, and right now no one's hired me. Everyone's doing part-time. How much are you in the hole every month, money-wise? Surprisingly, I don't know what's going on, but I'm not actually in the hole. I don't know how it's working. Okay. How much is your rent or your mortgage?

My mortgage is $2,400. $2,400 a month, but did you say you were only bringing in $2,000? Yes, don't ask me how it's working I have to ask you how it's working, it's just a math problem I know but I'm not going down in my account and I keep looking is it getting paid? Are my bills getting paid?

They're all getting paid Is your ex-husband paying them? No, I am They're coming out of my checking account. How much money do you have in your checking account? I have in my checking and savings about $16,000. Okay. So it's just probably taking money out of that. And well, what's going to happen is that's going to dwindle pretty fast. Right, right. Exactly. I have like six months to do something. Right. That's exactly right.

Yep. So your mortgage is more than what you're bringing in. And so that doesn't include any other utilities. So you're looking at to keep this house for that big of a mortgage payment, you're going to need to be bringing in close to nine grand a month which i'm not sure if that's going to be possible so i don't know for the house if you're going to be able to afford it long term in order to sustain um yep any level of lifestyle so are you how much is left on the house how much do you owe

about 275 000 oh okay um How much equity is in the house? Let's see. Well, I think it's worth $330,000, $350,000. So what is that? $150,000 if it's worth, did you say it's worth? No, I'm sorry. $75,000. That sounds right. Yeah. Well, you owe $675,000 on it? $275,000. Oh, $ 275 oh 275 oh my gosh it's worth 350 okay okay gotcha gotcha gotcha okay yeah i mean i think um yeah long term linda i'm gonna say that yeah you're gonna have to sell the house eventually here and then i mean i i would do it sooner than later honestly i don't think it's worth um the stress of what you're going to be under here after this account goes down money wise.

So I would sell it and I would find something like a one bedroom condo, something that you could own, but it's going to be significant. You know, if you can find something that's that's less than this and maybe a different part of Dallas as well. And then finding any level of work that you can to bridge that gap. Because like what John said, I mean, there's, that's the hard part about money is there's not really emotion around it. It is, it's just, it is the math problem. And so understanding, okay, here's the money coming in, the money going out. But also my hope, Linda, number one, you're so courageous for making a decision to leave a dangerous situation and in a marriage at this age, like I commend you for that greatly. Like that's, that's scary. And taking that step

is really difficult. And so I'm so proud of you for that. And then I, yeah, I pray that you're, the divorce, you know, comes to a, to an end and that he'll have some of his pension that he'll be paying you to help supplement some of this income too. Yeah. And if you do, not everybody has this. In fact, it's getting rarer and rarer. But if you do have kids, friends, adult friends, church friends, this is the time to say, hey, I need some help. And people always tell me, I don't like asking for help or it makes me feel weird. This is the time to say, I need some help. Will you sit down with me and help me map this thing out? Do you know a good realtor? We'll connect you with, I'm going to connect you with one of our Ramsey financial coaches. I'm going to pay for one of the sessions. And so you can sit down and they can walk through

your budget with you. And, and so hang on the line here. We'll get you that for free. But here's another thing for everyone out there who are are who is in a what i would call a i don't know it's a protected class really but i can imagine walking in at 68 years old not having worked and being like i need a job and people are going to look at you and go yeah no thanks right i i wish the world wasn't that way it is um if you can only get a part-time job get a part-time job and work like work like your life depends on it they'll hire you right they will hire you um and if they don't have a full-time i mean a full-time job available at some point they may roll you into one that is a full-time job or call a friend or they'll be able to be a good resource for you but if all you can get is

one or two part-time jobs work them like that's all you got right and then let opportunities show up in front of you yep so good golly i'm sorry um all right let's go to facebook john how about we don't we have theresa on facebook a social question uh she asked what kind of side jobs did you get should you get to start tackling debt so this is a question we get a lot people that are on Baby Step 2 that are trying to get out of debt. The income part of getting out is a huge, huge part of the speed of which you can get out of debt, right? I mean, like you can cut expenses, but only to a point, right? I mean, you still have to pay for things. So this extra income is really kind of the magic part of it.

But it's also difficult because it's it's high lift i mean it takes your time i mean you're you're working full you know full time possibly and then you're taking some kind of side hustle so um i mean i have found the the most lucrative ones we've seen and talked to people is like when you can have a direct connection to the customer meaning you do tutoring uh piano lessons lawn care lawn care, house sitting, babysitting, dog sitting, dog walking. Like when you can go straight to the person, to the customer, you're usually going to get a higher rate of return per hour versus going and working a retail job or something, you know. Or if you can work at all hours, you can work a full-time job and then you can drive

in hours where you otherwise couldn't just go get a regular job yes that's right yeah totally and you know always the you know the ubers the lifts the food delivery services a lot of those we've i mean we were talking to some people on a webinar last week and people were making like a thousand fifteen twelve hundred dollars i mean a lot by even just driving at night um so again, looking at those options, but finding and actually digging into the details of it. Because I think if you're going to be doing it, you want the most ROI out of your time

because all of that will be going towards debt and having the discipline to put that extra money towards paying off debt to get out of debt as quickly as possible versus spending it too. So having that character quality of like, yep, I'm going to be disciplined in that and stay true, that this extra income is going towards debt is huge. So all of you all, and some of you listening to this, listen to it during your side hustle. So we always just want to applaud you and remind you that that is possible.

This debt-free journey really is. It takes a lot of hard work, but it is possible. This is The Ramsey Show. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 different answers. Economic growth or a recession? Business taxes will go up or down. AI will help us work or it will replace us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal

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next, download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. It's free at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. The holiday season is upon us, and we have some extra special things to brighten your Christmas. Special things. Because you can winter to end. To winter to enter. Oh my gosh, you can enter to win. Rachel's clarity and speaking

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weekly prizes or the $5,000 grand prize. You can go to ramsaysolutions.com slash giveaway for that. And then while you're at it, make sure to check out our 50 Days of Christmas Deals, where you can save up to 30% off on gifts that actually give hope and life change to the people that you love this season. So whether it's building a non-anxious life, financial peace kids, or any other Ramsey fan favorites, make sure to check that out. You can go to ramseysolutions.com slash store or click the link in the description to check out the Christmas sale. Or again, for the giveaway to win some money, you can go to ramseysolutions.com slash giveaway. Up next, we have Sarah in

Virginia Beach. Hey, Sarah, welcome to the show. Hey. Hello, hello. How can we help? Okay, so we got a pre-approval loan for a used car, and the pre-approval had a 7.5% interest rate. And then when we saw the loan show up in our account, they have the interest rate at 9.5%, and when my husband went to the bank and asked them about the change, they said that they could do whatever they wanted. Do you know what show you're calling? The pre-approval is allowed to change, but we were like,

but we didn't agree to pay this, but we already have the car because we took like, it was like our bank, so we took the check from our bank. Hold on, Sarah, Sarah, Sarah. Do you know what show? I think you may have called the wrong show. Do you know what show this is? The Ramsey show?

Yeah. We don't like car loans. Yeah, we don don't like car loans so we'll have you probably sell the car yeah sell the car and don't do business with crooks don't do business with banks don't go into debt yeah well wait okay so what's what's the situation sarah so besides the interest rate let's um because yeah we are my pre pre-approval is different from an actual rate. Okay. Those are just different things. Yeah. So I'm pregnant with our fifth kid. We're 28.

And we're living on like $6,000 a month. But we fortunately live in military housing, so that makes things a little bit easier. But we were getting a car loan because my husband's been, like, keeping my van going for a while now, and he finally feels like he's kind of, like, at the end of what he can do with it. So we were worried, like, it's going to break down, and we're, like, not going to be able to fix it, and we're not going to have a vehicle that can fit our family in it. And so we don't have any other debt. So we were like, well, if we got a car payment that's around $200, then that's not so bad

because that's, like, the only other payment that we have besides, like, car insurance. So how can we help you? Sounds like you've got it. Sounds like you've got it figured out. I was confused about the pre-approval. Oh, the rate. You can explain it to us so that we don't make that mistake again because we thought because we were pre-approved at 7.5 that we would just... It's not a necessary locked-in rate at that point.

Pre-approval just means that my understanding is pre-approval just says, here's the floor. Y'all, your creditworthiness would qualify for X. Give me, Sarah, give me kind of a little bit more of y'all's financial situation. Because I would love to maybe help navigate and talk through just this whole picture. Because I think you're a mom. You're pregnant with number five, which God bless you, Sarah. Well done.

I have three and I feel like I have 13 kids. So that's amazing um and I know that the the stress that you know just growing a family takes and a car is one of the largest purchases that you know you make as a family so I understand it's a big deal and for you guys to have transportation I I totally get that um so your your husband what what branch is he in the military he's in the navy the navy okay well thanks for his service and for you as a as a military wife you guys um do a lot for this What branch is he in the military? He's in the Navy. The Navy, okay. Well, thanks for his service and for you as a military wife. You guys do a lot for this country, so we really, really honor and appreciate that.

So you guys are in military housing, so there's no housing expense for you guys per month? Or are you paying a little bit of something? I mean, technically, we get a housing allowance and when you live in military housing they just the housing gets the full housing allowance perfect yep so nothing's coming out of his paycheck housing yeah we just wouldn't be able to stay under our housing allowance totally okay and you guys make would you say six grand a month um so that's like with our housing allowance okay without our housing allowance our housing allowance is 2400 so it's closer to 4000 without our housing allowance okay okay um and any money saved um we have a little bit yeah it's like we have like five grand five

grand okay and no other debt we have no other debt yeah that's great that's great and are you working at all i am not because um for me to work we would lose money yeah totally yeah yeah because we have too many kids okay yeah for sure how care of them yep how how much was the the van you guys bought um the loan on the van is $16,000. $16,000, okay. And how much are you going to sell the old van for? We're hoping to sell it for at least $4,000. Okay.

And so what I would encourage you guys to do just as an exercise, you're probably not going to like it, but to save some of that money and Continue to not owe Anyone anything I would do A lot of research on a van That's 10,000 right it's going to be older It may not be as great as the 16 because

Have you guys have you guys officially purchased The 16 or did you guys get the Interest rate and now you're like oh gosh Have you signed off on everything Well we haven't signed like the promise note but if we take i and so my husband said that we could probably take the van back to the dealership and they would just make us probably pay like a restock fee or something yeah i mean sarah i'll be real honest i that's what i would do i wouldn't i wouldn't mess with

it and and i know the justification of it's only $200 a month. And at that point, it's not as much about the money, even though that's coming out of your $4,000. Well, the nine and a half interest rate, the payment is actually 270. We were thinking that we were going to be at like 200 a month because we expected a seven and a half interest rate. Yeah. Well, The idea of

Going through all of this You're going to be on Baby number five I mean there's There's just so much stress And there's something About having the peace of mind That if something

Were to ever happen That you You don't owe anyone anything And getting a car From the dealership Is the more expensive route Versus an individual So I do wonder

If you could If you could talk someone In that selling An eleven Ten thousand dollar Van To say hey We've got some cash And we can individual so i do wonder if you could if you could talk someone in that selling a eleven ten thousand dollar van to say hey we've got some cash and we can and we can you know we can buy it outright or drive the four thousand dollar as for for five six more months if you can and just figure it out that way but that honestly that's as you call in sarah that's that's the advice i want to give you is it's a different

thinking paradigm I understand how you you know fell into this but there's something about taking on the identity of like yeah we're just somebody that we don't borrow money and when you draw a hard line in the sand then other options come into play they have to because if this van breaks down you have to figure out okay what are we going to? But if you're not borrowing money and there's a hard line, you have to get creative with it. And yeah, and I think, you know, for you, you know, working would be very difficult. I understand that. I do know some people that are doing night stuff. You know, they're doing admin, you know, type online virtual assistant kind of things.

But I mean, at this point, if I were you guys, I would scrape together what we had and said, this is our budget. And this is what we have to spend on a car. And this is what we're to spend yeah we're just gonna have to figure it out and again for that pre-approval thing it's they just give you a floating number um it's it's an approximation this is about what it's going to be and then depending on what the rates are on any given day and they fluctuate and go up and down yesterday i mean it's just like it's all over the place and so yeah and here. And the Fed dropped some yesterday. I mean, it's just like... It's all over the place. And so, yeah. Here's the bigger picture. The reason we tell people don't borrow money, A,

is because, again, it always feels like something like this comes up. But if 70 bucks is going to be a hardship, it's going to be this big. Well, we thought it was going to be 7.9. Now it's 9.9.

Just don't play the game. Just don't play the game. You got five kids. You have seven people in on-base housing. It's all for peace. I'd rather have a crummy van than know no matter what's happening in our life. How many stitches, broken bones, whatever. Got to pay that bank. Got to pay that bank. Got to pay that bank. I just don't want to play. I don't want to play. This is The Ramsey Show.

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R E F Y.com slash Ramsey may not be available in all States. All right. Today's question comes from Lindsay in Ohio. My husband and I have been married for seven years and he refuses to combine finances. I make significantly less than he does. And whenever we argue, he says I'm only with him for his money, and he accuses me of wanting to drain his accounts. Jeez. I don't have any login info for any of our bills or his bank account. Oh, God. His mom is on his checking account, so if he died tomorrow, she could drain his funds completely while i waited for death certificates to access

the funds and support our son who is three he yeah this this next line doesn't surprise me at all he recently told me he is not happy and has not been happy for a long time i'm doing everything i can to keep my family together because i love him i even turned down job offers recently that paid significantly more just to preserve my mental health and to not cause him more stress if i'm being honest i don't earn enough to afford an apartment on my own let alone eat and pay utilities i'm scared and heartbroken and looking for some direction that's hard i would stop everything that you're doing and i would call a therapist marriage therapist today right now and ask him if he will go with you. He probably will not.

And ask him the question, this following question at the dinner table, are you through with our marriage? I think more people avoid that question and go for months or years with all these peripheral behaviors. Hey, mom, put my mom on a checking account. You can't have, we have all these proxy wars. Sit down down and say are you done with this marriage and you might tell them i'm not going to file on you you're going to have to leave whatever you want to but ask that question and have a therapist already appointment already booked that's where y'all that's where they're at here yep yep this is a man who's leaving this marriage and either a doesn't have the courage to do it or hasn't sat with his attorney yet but he is out of this relationship. And instead of doing a non-integrist thing with integrity, which I know sounds silly, he is just going to let his wife suffocate.

Yep. Yep. And then blame her for the implosion. Oh, gosh. Yeah. Man, Lindsay. Well, I do feel like, I mean, this feels like an extreme situation you guys don't even have you don't have access to money at that point of how to pay bills

I mean you guys are living completely separate lives and the money issue and how you guys are so separate with money is the symptom of really what's going on in your marriage which you know that and so getting to the root cause of that but I do want to you know encourage you that even in this,

it doesn't sound like it's going well. I mean, you never want to predict a divorce on somebody, but unless he's willing to do the work and you are too, nothing's going to change. But you've been offered money, you're offered jobs that you're getting paid significantly more, but you're turning them down to preserve your mental health if i were you i mean you guys are living separate lives at this point and yeah you should start making plans i mean i would i would start

um seeing yeah what's out there for me from a career standpoint to build your confidence back because if you're if you're in a relationship male man or woman right like and that your partner is not reciprocating any level of unity and that's what you're craving you love him I'm like that's rejection on a daily basis right and that erodes I would have to say your self-confidence and so to kind of get yourself in a spot from like a mental health standpoint right that's that's somewhat stable is going to be really important in this for you to possibly make some hard decisions. And Lindsay, probably for a long time, years, you've been trying to do things to not make him mad, to not make him sad, to not make him upset, to make sure that the house

is quiet, to quote unquote, not cause him stress. Stop. The source of his stress is coming from the inside out, has nothing to do with you. And so you're not turning down job opportunities that would keep you safe, keep food on you and your son's table, pay for an apartment. If and when this guy finally leaves you, which he's telling you he's doing, you have to start making those type of plans

and stop living every moment to try to not stress him out. It's never been about you. It's always been about him. It's always been about him. Yep. I hate that for you. We were just on a break and meeting all the fabulous people in the lobby watching the show where we met with a couple that was here for our money and marriage event. And that's a theme, John, throughout that weekend and through marriage. Once I've been married 15 years, and I would say even in the last probably four-ish years to five years, did all of that

click? Like what you just said, because I think for so long we live in such a way that we really do believe if I do something, it's going to affect you on a level. So I can either choose behaviors or, you know, it's up to me to make sure you're okay. Right? It's that way of living. I can annoy my wife. I can be frustrating. Sure.

I can make her mad, but like, I can't, I can't wake up every day and make her be okay. Yes. Make her be whole. I don't have that kind of power. No, no. And when you put the layer of money on top of it, for those of you listening and watching, we get the question on time. How do I, how do I get my husband to see X, Y, and Z? How do I get my wife to see, or I don't have a spouse that's working with me financially. How do I get them to change? It's the way the questions are worded and our belief that we can change someone in it. We just haven't said it the right way. That's right. Yeah. Or if we just had that one conversation and I could just, yeah,

make this argument really good, then they're going to get it. But there's something deep in the core of who we are. And again, this shows a lot about money and relationships. But it comes out in the financial aspect, meaning that when you guys are not on the same page financially, you can only bring to the table what you are feeling, what you believe, and hope that your spouse reciprocates that you're in a marriage, that they're actually listening and responding. But to the point that that is not happening, then there is the marriage issues that are really going on and it's coming out as money issues and it's marriage issues. And I say this all the time, behavior is a language. And this guy's showing you through his actions, he trusts his mom and he doesn't trust you. Right or wrong,

maybe you've earned that lack of trust or maybe he just never, like he trusts his mom and he doesn't trust you. Right or wrong, maybe you've earned that lack of trust or maybe he just never, like, he trusts his mom and he doesn't trust you. That's a marriage fracture of the highest order. Y'all need to address that, right? When he tells you, I'm not happy, I haven't been for a long time, that's usually coded testing the water language for,

are you gonna blow up? Maybe you leave, are you not, do you wanna like make this mutual kind of thing like that's just i'm testing it out right um this idea that we're not going to be together um and you have to start thinking about your four walls you have a three-year-old right you gotta start thinking about different different things yeah and i hate that for you i hate it i hate it i hate it um yet it's where we are it's what it it is. Oh, well, thanks so much, Lindsay, for the question. I hope that helps. All right, let's go to John in Salt Lake City. Hey, John, welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you. Absolutely. How can we help? So I am currently in a straight commission sales position. Been in it for somewhere 15 years or so. Making about $200,000 a year currently, but the pay structure of our company is changing from straight commission to a base plus bonus model. The question is, or my concern is, I'm in a very established market currently, so I'm concerned about being able to hit those growth bonuses because there's not a whole lot of growth in my current area left in my opinion so the option that they have proposed to me is well you you could pick up additional territory in some additional states where we don't currently have market share or you could simply go relocate to a new area with, you know, sky's the limit territory.

How much of your question, dude, is about the integrity of the people you work for? None. I'm not concerned about that. I very much like the company, respect my bosses, enjoy what I'm doing. The actual literal question is, financially, does it make sense to relocate or do I, which is the option, you know, on a weekly basis and be away from the family, which is not something that I want to do. Yeah. I think your professional life is more than your paycheck. And so if you need 200 grand or you need that more money to survive based on the life you all have created, and that's what you and your wife decide, great, go knock your lights out and commute or y'all could end up thinking about moving.

Yeah. If you like your life as it is in your community and your friends and your family, what y'all all do, and you can afford the pay cut, and that's the life y'all want to choose, choose that. This is The Ramsey Show. Rachel, do you ever get these sketchy text messages that are like, hey, you need to update your address and verify so we can get you the package you didn't order? Yes, I have, George. Sketchy and never trust them.

And that's why we recommend Delete.me. They help with that. Yeah, they do. Delete.me actually goes in and removes your information from data broker websites. And it is an incredible service that everyone needs. And there's a lot of shady companies out there that solely exist to sell your personal data to bad guys. And that means your info, like your email address, your home address, your kids' names, your name, everything is just out there for scammers and spammers to find.

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So again, that's joindelete.me.com slash Ramsey. Make sure to check it out, you guys. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour

with my friend and host of the Dr. John Deloney Show, John Deloney. That's like a double John Deloney, John Deloney. And author Dr. John Deloney show, John Deloney. That's like a double John Deloney, John Deloney, and author of the John Deloney books. So much of your name. It seems hard for my children when they were young to even say their dad's name. But give us a call at 888-825-5225, and we're going to be answering your calls on life and money.

First up, we have Jim in Atlanta, Georgia. Hey, Jim. Welcome to the show. Hi. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. How can we help? So my wife and I are consistently up. Well, now we're up through baby step four, but we haven't bought our first home yet. So that's kind of the next thing,

big ticket thing that we're looking to do. And I just, I feel like our expenses are so high. I just don't know how I'm never going to be able to save enough in Atlanta to be able to purchase a home. Yeah. So what do you guys make in a year? We make about between the two of us, about $100,000. Okay. And tell me about your expenses, man. So we pay $2,000 a month for rent. Probably can add another, it depends because it's like usage-based, but $400 or $500 for utilities after that. We do our best with groceries. It's just crazy right now. Um, probably around $800 a month on food. Do you have little ones? Uh, no, just,

just my wife and I and our dog. How old are you? I'm 26, 26. So Jim, I, I'm going to tell you this just because I love you. Okay just as straight as I can because I just don't I I think um the band of 22 year olds to 35 year olds just wasn't told the truth and that is um y'all are doing everything right you know working really hard and you and you can y'all can find some other jobs we can talk about all that kind of stuff but increasingly across the country people are running into I want to live in this city and there are just not enough houses in this city so the ones that are available are outrageously expensive they're very expensive and so there's a reckoning which is do we want to be homeowners more than we

want to live in the zip code and that's not it's a question that none of us, I'm in my forties. I, it never even was, it was never a question I was prepped for. But I think the idea of, we have this picture, we got married. We want to live in Atlanta. We want to be Braves fans. God help you. Like this is where our family, like this is where we want to build our life. And this ugly person that doesn't care about your wants or desires or dreams called math just said it's not going to work.

And so you have to decide, do we want to live in the city and rent? Or do we want to keep working really hard and begin thinking we might, let's move to Kansas. Let's move to North Dakota. I'm making up places, but I think there's a reality to it. Or 45 minutes outside. Yeah. Or we're going to, we have to commute.

We have to do some different things. And I think, I think more and more people are banging their head up against mathematical realities and it's making them insane. And I get it. And it's good to be frustrated. But I think a wiser use of your energy is to begin to go, okay, then what must be true? We want to own a house that's ours. Awesome. I love it. All right, let's get out a map and figure out where across the United States of America we can live and actually afford a house here. It might be Lubbock, Texas. It might be Highland Park. Who knows? That's hard to hear, but man, what do you all do for a living? So I work from home. I work for a university as an academic advisor.

My wife is a shark trainer. A shark trainer. There are very limited opportunities for her to be able to do that. Wait, a shark trainer, like the shark in the ocean? And she trains them? Yes. Like at the aquarium, the Atlanta aquarium? Yes, correct. Your wife is the coolest wife who's ever lived. I know, I know. Man, I wanted to be a marine biologist so bad and do this kind of work. Man, you took a left turn. Wow. She's a shark trainer, dude.

That's unbelievable. So you're going to be living by the coast, right? Or by an aquarium. Yeah, so we live in Atlanta because that's where the aquarium is. Okay. How much does she make a year? She makes about $48. Okay. Okay. So how much does she make a year? She makes about 48. Okay. Okay. And so you, you're going to have to ask yourself the question. I've worked with academic advisors my whole life.

Y'all don't make a bunch of money and you'll do a ton of work too. I mean, she works with sharks. You're going to have to ask yourself, because my guess is she is locked into this thing. That's probably not a job that comes open very often you move wherever you can get that job that's her world right yeah okay then you have to ask yourself is being an academic advisor is that my future or am I using this as a springboard because the university is gonna pay for my graduate school so I can go do this thing and do another thing and do another thing and how quickly can you get on that wagon otherwise y'all gonna be spinning your

wheels man well i already have my master's okay so yeah but what do you make 52 000 i'm sorry you make 52 000 yeah okay you can make that as a public school teacher in atlanta too and have summers where you can make more money that's what i'm saying like it's it's about you saying okay i had this dream of being a university official it's not gonna even if i became the head of all academic advising i'm gonna make 80 grand and that's not gonna buy you a house in a cool neighborhood in atlanta and so it's you reckoning with okay what must be true for my career my yeah and i would say for hers too i'm like yeah i mean obviously she's gone to school to be you know or she's gotten levels of rachel she's a shark trainer this thing is not changing right but that's the grown-up

question though and we all that reckoning is real for people couples all across the you know the country a guy we talked to last hour it's like do i do i take this kind of pay cut to do the job i want or do i go and transfer and we move somewhere to make more money to have a different kind of lifestyle I mean it's a lifestyle question you guys are asking or I want to be a writer so bad and now chat gpt is here and so my like my market value just went in half yeah and like so do I want to keep doing this thing yeah yeah and I'm not saying like just go chase money and your life is going to be okay it's more fulfilling than that but you guys will just have to make some hard decisions because the math has to line up. And you're right to own a home in Atlanta, Georgia, making 100K, it's gonna be really hard.

And again, maybe you guys start off with a not a single family home. Maybe it's a townhouse. Maybe it's a condo, not in the nicest building, right? I mean, like there's these other elements of this that you need to look into. But I think that is your next step, Jim. I think homeownership from a financial standpoint is the wisest thing that you guys can do. You guys are out of debt. You have an emergency fund.

And for first-time homebuyers, we recommend about 5% to put down and making sure that your payment is no more than 25% of your take-home pay. And so that may take you guys another two years to save and get a good down payment to get your monthly payment in a place that you want. I mean, but I think overall, and the beauty is you guys, you know, you don't have kids right now. The world is you guys, and you guys are dual income, no kids, the dinks, and you get to make decisions about your life of, hey, what do we want to do? And that can change over time. But I think that, that i mean the math has to work and that's the hard part of all of this and it is frustrating i mean things do cost more and um you know and and and even look at your lifestyle too jim i mean i would be curious um from that perspective i know groceries are expensive but 800 bucks for just you guys

i think family of five lives off of that some months. I think maybe this is the magic question, Rachel, is what's it worth to you? Yep. And you asked that question about your two jobs. What's it worth to us?

Yep. And it's about how we go out to eat. It's the town. It is the concerts and the baseball games we go to or don't go to. It's the,

what is all this stuff worth being by family, being not, what is all this worth to us and let that dictate some of your questions. And that's, I don't know if there's a right or wrong answer for anybody on those, but math doesn't care how you feel. It just doesn't. Thanks, Jim. I hope that helps. This is The Ramsey Show. There's a time in your life and in the baby steps for renting, but you don't want to do it forever because when you rent, you're still paying for a mortgage, just somebody else's. Plus,

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1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100. Rent with Tennessee 37027. Well, a brand new tour just launched with Dave Ramsey and Dr. John Deloney. And they're going to be hitting the road with the Money and Relationships Tour. It's going to be so fun. This is going to be so fun. So we do live events around Ramsey a lot. So we travel and we'll do some here at our event center.

But this event specifically, it's a different one because the audience in each city gets to choose the topics, right? Yes. And you know better than any of us, Dave and I will be on the stage together dave if you've never been on stage with dave ramsey you're you have to know what you're talking about and you just have to be ready and you never know what's going to happen never know what's going to happen and with you too john when we hosted money marriage i was always like but john you host him with john there's like 40 percent of you just never know what's going to happen you always have to leave room and dave's the same way so it's going to be a very entertaining very fun event so if you're in Louisville Durham Atlanta Phoenix Fort Worth or Kansas City they are coming to you or any surrounding areas so to get the dates and the tickets go to ramsaysolutions.com

slash tour and make sure to check it out you guys again the money and relationships tour with Dave Ramsey and Dr. John Deloney. They're hitting the road. And let me tell you, when we were sitting around Dave's table talking about what we were going to talk about, we got to laughing so hard. And I thought, if we're laughing this hard in here, it's going to be wheels off. It'll be wheels off. If you think you know what a Ramsey event is, show up. It'll be a blast. It's so fun. So, so fun. All right. Next up, we have Matthew in West Palm Beach. Hey, Matthew, welcome

to the show. Thank you. I appreciate how you guys are doing. We're doing well. How can we help? Fantastic. So I have a quick question. So my wife and I are expecting our first child in December. Congratulations. I appreciate that. She's real pregnant, huh? Yeah, she's

very pregnant. You getting a pregnant, huh? Christmas baby. Yeah, she is very pregnant. You getting a baby John? We are not. Boo. It's a girl. Rachel. This feels right. You know, like in the 80s.

Rachel and Nicole. You know, Rachel or Nicole. I love that. But yeah, so we are trying to figure out what our work life is going to look like. Just a little bit of context. I own two small businesses. I work from home, very flexible life. My wife works a normal nine to five job that she's not thrilled with. So I think it's a really good time for her to kind of take a break,

take a little reset and kind of see how everything goes. And then, you know, jump back into work if she feels like she wants to. And so she doesn't feel the same way, we're kind of going back and forth about it. She goes, call the Ramsey show. I dare you. Get on the Ramsey show. So I'm like, you know what? I will get on the Ramsey show. Okay, Matthew.

Does she want to work? Yes. Does she want to work? Yeah. She wants to work. She's been working since she was 14. But she doesn't love what she does. So I just think it's just a good, a good time in our life. I think we're really set up where she's able to take a small break if she, you know, and then jump back in if she wants to go back to work. There's something beneath that though. Yeah. You either need to have the courage to say, I always had this picture that the woman i married would be a stay-at-home mom or i i've

been married to you for this many years three years five years seven years and you hate your job and that that i want to see you smile again that's underneath the hey you know what i think it's a good time for you to take a break that's like when someone's like oh are you gonna have another cheeseburger huh right you're going back to work it's a it's a it's a proxy war for the truth and she might be saying you know i just i've been working since i was 14 that might be her saying i i'm nervous about your two small businesses and or my dad told me I didn't have any worth unless I made money.

I've been working since I was 14 and all I know is to produce. That's it. And not to produce anymore, I don't know who I would be. And so it's getting beneath that saying, here's a map financially where we're going to be okay. I want you to know that I love you more than life itself

and you can't earn that anymore. Right? And maybe that's a conversation to have. Or if you want to keep working, I want you to work in a job that brings you joy and makes you feel like you have purpose and not something you hate every day because I'm scared to have that kind of poison

in the house with a newborn. Thousand percent. I mean, you hit the nail on the head. It definitely stems from, you know, her mom was a breadwinner of her family and so she's used to that, used to the woman working in the home where I came from a household nail on the head. It definitely stems from, you know, her mom was a breadwinner of her family. And so she's used to that, used to the, you know, the woman working in the home where I came from a household, my mom was a stay-at-home mom. And that's kind of what I'm used to. So, but yeah, I mean, if she wants to go back to work, obviously I would not make her, you know, not work. Obviously

she's, you know, she could do whatever she wants and we can obviously use any income we can get, but I just feel like like you want her to be the healthiest version of her and that's correct not going to a job she hates and or you know fighting her own demons of gosh do am i do i have value if i'm not producing or what or i'm fearful that you're not going to make enough money i mean whatever that motivation is for her to work uh is important to get to because because or it simply is d she just enjoys it yeah going to a job you hate that we don't want that long term for anybody out there um but maybe it's like yeah i i still because i know some women i mean and they're they they

they can't stand being at home they're just like oh my gosh like i i function so much better i'm a better mom if you know being working or whatever it may be, right? And then also know, Matthew, you guys are first-time parents. Leave your hand open to a lot that can happen because the moment that baby is born, it changes your world unlike anything you can ever explain to someone. So her viewpoint may change. Your viewpoint may change. I mean, you just, you never know until that baby's here

because I don't know. Yeah, I always tell new parents, take every major decision three months at a time. Okay. Give yourself 90 days to be like, I'm going full stay at home. And then y'all recalibrate, put it on the calendar. Does she have a good maternity leave

and everything with her and insurance? Like how, from a corporate standpoint, is she? Yeah, she does get three months off. So we do have that three month window. And yeah, so I mean, like you said, the 90 days, that makes a lot of sense. So maybe she could stay home to leave, see how it goes, you know, but just talking to peers and friends, they're all just like, I wish I had so much more time with our, you know, with my baby. And I feel like we're in a position to take advantage of that i know how important i know but you keep using we don't put your story onto hers y'all need to have the conversation about because both of y'all have been saying we're gonna have a baby and she had a picture of what that meant and it's informed largely by her childhood

you had a picture of what that meant and that was largely informed by your childhood y'all need to now do the hard work which is can also be really fun if you approach it with curiosity which is oh here was my picture of having a baby and here was my picture of having a baby now let's let's create one that's going to include both of our pictures that we're both on the same page otherwise she goes back to work and you had this this this this building resentment in your guts that your wife abandoned your kid. Or she just feels forced to stay home and she starts to resent you because she feels miserable in her house.

She feels trapped and lonely in her house. And she really liked the idea of working. It brought her a fuller picture of herself. And you stole that from her, right? So let's make sure we avoid that and just call out at the beginning. No judging the pictures, no judging the pictures. Let's just be curious about them.

Oh man, you thought I was going to be a stay at home mom. How long have you known me? 10 years. Yeah. I just, I loved how my mom was able to do this, this,

and this. Oh, I love seeing a picture of my mom working really hard and coming home with projects. And so how explore that together and then come up with a, with a 90 day plan or a 180 day plan, a six month plan, and then promise each other,

put on the calendar and we'll reassess it. Okay. And I'll tell you, I have had some of the most gangster coworkers ever who are women who had babies and they were going to be back in the office the day after the birth and they never came back and they're awesome and they're like did i help my baby and they're like i ain't going back to your stupid whatever you dumb boys are doing at the dumb boardroom table and then i've met this the exact opposite i'm gonna be a stay-at-home i'm

gonna be a stay-at-home and they have that to be a stay-at-home. And they have that baby and six months in, they're like, get me out of here. So just keep your hands open and make sure you'll have the conversation on a regular basis together because it's going to evolve and shift and change. Okay. So just keep it fluid. Obviously, keep communication up. See how the lead goes. But don't use proxy wars. Don't use proxy. And I'll just say as a woman who works, and I came back two weeks early from maternity leave with my first because I was that I was like oh my gosh and I love my job I'm like I miss it I miss being with people and you know so I actually that versus my third I actually pulled way back you're still not back I'm totally kidding I'm just being ridiculous I am working no but uh

but so you know it I think for women it can feel like I can't take an off ramp, especially in the corporate world. And when I hear this from friends, like if I get off the exit, I can't get back on. That's how it feels. But you can. Don't limit yourself. Don't have those blinders because when you don't have other options, you make bad decisions out of fear and out of what could be. Take that off the table, too. The sky's the limit.

So always remember that. And that's more for her, Matthew, not for you. This is The Ramsey Show. We broadcast this show live every day from one to four right outside of Nashville, Tennessee. And it's played on podcasts and YouTube. And it's always fun because the way we built the studio, we moved into the new building. It's right in the lobby, the studio is, with a big glass wall. And people come from all over and we meet people during the breaks from all over the country. We had people from Oregon and California and Florida. And in the lobby as well, there is a debt-free stage.

And we have Ryan and Jonna standing on that today. Welcome, you guys. Thank you. Well, congratulations. You're on that today. Welcome, you guys. Thank you. Well, congratulations. You're on that stage for one reason and one reason only, because you are debt free. Thank you. Congratulations. So how much debt did you guys pay off?

$198,000. Wow. How much money were you making during that time? We started at $94,000 and ended about $207,000.7 okay and then how long did that take you um it took us a little over seven years okay um and what was the almost 200k of debt what was that it was our house yeah it's the house completely look at it it's beautiful completely debt free it's a rad house man i'll just say it's a very california looking house and you guys are from sacramento we're a little north of sacramento two hours

north cottonwood having a paid off california home feels impossible is what it seems like yeah incredible what's it worth about seven million dollars we wish no probably about 450 wow amazing great job double your income um god blessed us in a lot of different ways and um i made a small career change and about 10 years ago and i've just kind of slowly he's opened all these doors for me and um he's just kind of plugged along the same way and yeah what do you guys do um i'm a director for a county office of education okay i work in the field petroleum industry okay amazing you guys okay so what happened seven years ago to start this journey of paying off your house which is wild it is wild she came home one day and she's like, hey, we're going to start this Dave Ramsey thing.

And I'm like, okay, I've heard of him on the AM radio. And I was like, okay, let's do it. You know, we always kind of knew that that was dumb. And we just started. And one, two, and three was pretty quick. And basically it was one, two, and three. And then we just kept rocking and rolling um yeah you always talk about gazelle intensity and for us it was like we had a little savings

so we just kind of paid it you know paid a chunk off we had a little credit card we paid that off and then built up our savings and um we're more of the tortoise yes the low slow uh-huh you know get it done yes um we I love spreadsheets so I'm the nerd well especially with the house and the and the interest rate and stuff when you start to see oh my gosh if we can cut this down how much you're saving even in just interest it's motivating exactly um but we kind of saved alongside of that. We had a goal of paying it off and then starting a remodel. OK. Those plans changed when we paid off our mortgage on a Friday and the following, like two days later, his car blew up. And then three days later, my car blew up.

Oh, my gosh. So thankfully, mine was covered under a recall. So that was all fine. But we ended up having to write a check for a new car, which thankfully we had. A used new car. A used, yeah, new to us. New to you. New to us. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Incredible. I don't know. It just feels like God has laid this path for us. And, you know, because of the principles we've learned, it's just, you know, we've had very little stress. Things come up and we just go oh you know okay and move along so yeah so during that time when we talk about baby step two paying off consumer debt that gazelle intensity and it's just like scorched earth you're going all in but

when you get to where you guys were baby steps four five and six we say it's more intentional right there's going to be it's a longer game right seven years right uh which is faster than the average baby steps millionaire that pays it off in nine so you guys you you had some intensity so what would you say percentage wise was like we're going to throw as much as we can at the house and we're sacrificing some stuff over here versus like we still had a life and we still enjoyed things and did stuff with our family but then had extra that we put towards the house what was kind of the balance for you guys? I don't know. I feel like we did.

I mean, we definitely lived, not bare bones, but we were pretty frugal going through the whole thing. But anytime we would get a raise, we would just take it and kind of, I joke with my coworkers that I finally get a paycheck. Because it's like, it's felt, you know, like we've been working towards this goal for so long. And so now it feels a little surreal. We don't know what to do with ourselves. How long ago did you pay it off? We paid it off. We were going to, we were planning November 1st and we were sitting at football practice one day and we looked at each other and went, we're tired of this. And so we just said, we're going to pay it pay it off tomorrow so we paid off in September instead so you've had you've had one

if not two months of both of your checks depositing and they're just sitting there yeah it feels really weird that's so wild you know the nerd in me I have spreadsheets built for the next year and a half and I'm like oh my gosh like I can't you know like it just feels crazy it feels really crazy so what's it like for you I'm assuming you're not the the spreadsheeter no not really I mean I can use a spreadsheet but she just tells me what I can and can't spend money on I'm definitely the spender it's funny because I'm the nerd but I'm also the spender he's the saver he's just like you you know, lives. He's good.

Yeah. Good. Just to lay low. Yeah. Okay. Do you feel like your kids felt the effects of it? Meaning like their lifestyle and everything? Like, do they, are they like, oh, mom and dad are rolling in it now.

We get to like. I don't know. I feel like we, I feel like we had a pretty good balance. Yeah. That's so great. You guys. What was your biggest, what was your biggest fight you had in seven years? Over money or just a general fight? I would say it wasn't money.

Well, I mean, if you want to talk about the big fight, I'm here for it. Make good radio. Yeah, what's your biggest money disagreement? Spending, purchasing things. I don't know that we... We don't really... We don't really fight about money.

We're very on the same page on that. We do parent a lot differently. That's for your show. Oh, that's awesome, you guys. Congratulations. So how does it feel? It feels crazy. It feels incredible.

It's like a weight just getting lifted off their shoulders. You know, the grass is greener. Everything is a lot nicer when it's all paid off and you're not making that payment every month. It's wild. Wild. Well, you guys are weird. And we always celebrate the weirdness because, I mean, seriously, I haven't paid off house. And then you add California to that.

That's the extra layer to this in my head of like, oh, yeah, people feel like that just cannot be done. And you guys, you guys did it. Absolutely incredible. Absolutely. Okay. So bring the kids up. So we have uh is it shelby and logan yes yes and how old are they uh logan is 10 and shelby is 20 so logan you've never known your parents not to be crazy right now you're gonna have two boring rich parents finally he wants jet skis yeah oh yeah now is the toy phase of our life because we have you know we don't have any big

toys or anything like that. Hey Logan just between me and you and a couple million other people they don't have any more excuses now. They gotta get you some fun stuff Logan okay. Your mom's a spender I see it. She'll take you out. Oh that's so great. You guys so proud of you. I mean, incredible family and to do something that is above and beyond what people do in the sacrifice is so real and you get the reward

on it. You live like no one else. So later you get to live and give like no one else. We are so excited. Baby step seven. Can't believe it. All right. So we have Jonna and Ryan, Shelby and Logan from Sacramento, California. They paid off $198,000 in seven years, making $94,000 to $207,000. And that includes their house. So count it down. Let's hear a big debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We big debt-free scream three two one we're debt-free incredible that is so impressive always impressive dude seven years of doing a thing

most people in america can't do something for seven minutes without being like, I'm bored. Let's do something else. That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Change it up. Let's scroll something. Yeah. Just to get a plan and do it for seven years.

Just plug it away, plug it away. Not even a house payment. Can you imagine America watching the election results come in? Either way and not worry that someone's going to do something to take your house because they can't because it's yours. It's amazing, dude. Congratulations, guys. Congratulations. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney, joined by Rachel Cruz. So here's a trend out. And if you've listened to my show, Rachel, over the last couple of years, I've taken more and more calls about people struggling with gambling. More gambling and more gambling.

And now as sports betting, as municipalities and cities and states have been wanting to get in on the gambling action, more and more places are legalizing sports betting especially um on their phones and check this out dude this is a um an article here just says americans spend more money betting on sports than investing in stocks recent data reveals that since sports betting has become legalized in much of the u.S. Households are diverting their income to gambling rather than investing in the stock market. Net investments have dropped 14% as in 2023 alone, the American sports betting industry

hit a record-breaking $10.9 billion in revenue. So this is wildcats, dude a woman a girl i don't know as a woman i don't understand i don't understand it now going to vegas and i've admitted it on the show uh and and rolling some dice and playing some craps is so fun the single biggest loss i've ever taken in my life was standing next to Rachel Cruz at a crab's table. Sometimes it doesn't always happen, but when you get on a hot streak, it's so fun. Because everyone's cheering, you're making everyone money. It is a fun entertainment moment.

When you bet on sports, you do nothing for the out... You don't get to participate in it. That's what I don't understand the fun is. It's more fun when you're betting and like you're the one playing the game yeah but you're missing out on this is like the whole sports industry of america is an instead of going out like my dad my dad i have these vivid memories of going when i was a kid and my dad had was always in a softball league always into something we don't do that anymore we pay men other grown men and women bajillions of dollars to play sports for us now we pay them to like make us money to make us

money or lose money right we we've outsourced everything yes and now there's commercials for sport what's the one i don't know i don't know much about it but it's the um i don't want to give anyone anybody yeah yeah but you but but that's the... I don't want to give anybody publicity there. But that's what's crazy to me is now, you didn't see that 10 years ago. No. But the commercials now for it, I'm like, oh my gosh. 38 states have legalized gambling and it's become a growth industry generating more than $120 billion in total bets.

Oh my gosh. And like I said, $10.8 billion, $11 billion in 2023. In one year. No, $120 billion total bets, yeah, and $11 billion revenue in one year. And investing has taken a hit. And so there was an average 7.7% of households made online bets of one of these studies with about $1,100 a year. And here's the challenge. And here's the deal they know this about um lottery

it impacts low-income people more right if you don't if you don't owe anybody on your house a house payment if you don't owe anybody credit cards if you've got a stable job you can go to vegas and spend a couple hundred bucks and lose it and it's annoying you can go ah man sure sure if you don't have 200 to gamble because that's your light and your water bill and yet you think man if i hit this could change everything for me yeah it's an outsized impact on you for doing the same exact behavior right um this study says that financially constrained households um are particularly noticing the negative um effects here and i think what's hard to kills man this is what I don't like about gambling the lottery.

Anytime you are delegating out winning financially to someone else or to a system is you're putting your hope in something that there's no payoff in, right? It's different when you're investing over a period of time because there is a proven track record that your money will make money. Oh, there's a proven track record that your money will make money.

Oh, it's a proven track record in the lottery. Somebody wins. Maybe it's going to be me this time. But every time you put money in the market, for the most part, over time, over the long haul, your money is going to make money. But for gambling, the lottery, all of it, it is like this quick, it's a quick win idea that my life is going to change because of this one play that I'm doing. And that's so much easier than playing the longer game financially. And check this out, as it applies to the message that Dave's been talking about for 30 years, increase in betting and consumption drives an increase in financial instability in terms of

decreased credit availability and increased credit card and a higher incidence of overdrawn accounts what does that mean people are putting now that it's all so easy on your phone um everyone's just putting on the credit card they're just they're just taking out money and putting it on bets and people are going into debt to make financial bets which and you lose and i gotta make it back dude so i'm gonna take out another loan that's right and now i find myself way over my head yep yep because what is it i mean i think the same is true like when you buy something right the um the excitement the dopamine but when you're betting there's the anticipation the anticipation anticipation and

then whom the payoff and which is what your cortisol, like what's going on? I mean, the nerdiness doesn't matter as much as, you have a biochemical response in your body that begins to build that apprehension, apprehension, apprehension. And the great Anna Lemke describes it as a teeter-totter. The more on one side of the teeter-totter, your body's way of leveraging it is pain.

It hurts, right? It's the next morning after a bender. You are in physical pain. And the only way people sometimes handle that pain is by doing it again, right? Is increasing it again. You just get on this teeter-totter of anticipation, anticipation, and then wham, and it drops you below baseline. And so your dopamine falls off a cliff, right?

And is that where the addiction starts to play in? Because some people I know, it's like, they have- Addiction is, I don't want to hurt. Yep. Right? And so I'm going to come up with a behavior. Instead of dealing with that core hurt, I'm going to come up with a behavior and my body's going to begin to automate a behavior that helps hurt less. And unfortunately, when it comes to addiction, you need more and more of that behavior to cover up higher and higher amounts of pain of everybody trying to equalize itself right get back

to equilibrium and it just hurts on top of hurts on top of hurts and you find yourself i'm putting sports gambling on a credit card right it's mess mess mess mess mess what a mess we're in um what does this mean don't gamble unless you can set that money on fire in your living room and you can laugh about it. Yep. Right? Totally, yes.

Yeah, we always say that. I mean, if there's anything that you're doing financially that has a big risk, gambling would be one. Playing craps when you're in Vegas once a year, I would include that. Crypto, I would put crypto in the same bucket.

Anything that does not have a long-term track record, anything that has a high level of risk for you to lose that money, even investing in a friend's business or something, come to you with this idea, hey, hey, hey. Make sure you've got the other side of the barbell secured. That's right. So that's the point, is anytime you're going to do any of these risky level moves financially, to your point, emotionally, you have to be able to set that money on fire and you're you're fine meaning you're out of debt you have a fully funded emergency fund you are investing 15 of your income into retirement so instead of investing going down the amount of people investing going down it needs to be the opposite for you if you're not investing you need

to get yourself in a place where you are because that is a proven track record for your money to make money in the long term and if you have kids you're saving for college you know you're you're paying off the house and once the house is paid off then it's like okay i have disposable income we are in a solid place financially that we're not going to harm ourselves by you know putting you know a small amount of money and this, that, or playing this, playing that. But just know what you're getting into as well. And know yourself. There's a level of self-awareness

that if you do have that kind of personality that you know yourself, that you're going to keep going. I like to say any sort of advice needs to be for fun, not for strategy. That's great, John. So if you want to have a drink with your buddies and you all laugh real loud you tell stories great if drinking makes you feel

better at the end of the day you need to deal with that if it's a way you can deal with um i remember this is a gosh this is going to get dark i i used to give a survey to my grad students. And I remember every year I started stopping the conversation because one of the questions was, I need three or four drinks or two or three drinks to engage in some sort of sexual activity. I remember saying, hey, if you have to drink to override your body's natural break system, don't do that. If you have to gamble to feel alive again, go talk to somebody. Right. Because I want you to feel alive in your own skin. So it can be fun, but don't use it as a strategy. That's a great point. So good. Well, thank you guys for listening and watching. If you're on podcast or YouTube, this is it for you. But make

sure to go over to the Ramsey Network app. It is completely free and you will get the third hour of the show there. If you're listening on traditional radio, we are still with you. Thank you, America. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Dr. John Deloney. So give us a call at 888-825-5225. And anyone on the Ramsey Network app, we welcome you to this hour of the show. Hey, we need to give them a nickname.

James, y'all need to come up with that in network meeting. We need to give the Ramsey network app people Like a nickname I don't call them appers I like that idea They need to have like a gang We need to make a t-shirt Make some merch Well thanks for listening and watching you guys

We're going to go to the phones And starting us off this hour is Aaron From Salt Lake City Hey Aaron welcome to the show. Hi, thanks for taking my call. What's up? My question is just how to financially prepare for having a baby next year when you don't have paid maternity leave? Well, the first thing is get $7 million and that will be your diaper fund. Oh my gosh.

Just do that before anything else. That would be amazing. Listen, I thought babies pooped like one time a day, like regular people. They poop a thousand times a day and they never stop. So just get a million dollars worth of diapers and then you'll be fine after that. You'll be good to go. Are you expecting Erin? Yeah, next year in June.

Okay, congratulations. So where are you guys at financially? Do you know, like, how much does it take to run your household per month, I should ask? Yeah, we don't have any debt other than we did just buy a house recently. So we just have a mortgage um i make about i bring home like 7 000 a month and my husband is currently like trying to start up his own business so his income is a little bit variable right now but hopefully it'll be going up in the next few months. What's he trying to do? Your voice changed when you talked about his job. He is an online health coach,

but he also just started another part-time job just to kind of supplement income while he's building that up. Does that make you nervous to quit your job or to take some time away from your work while he's doing that? Yeah, I mean, I'm just nervous about not having like pay during maternity leave. Yeah, it's a big deal. My plan was to use a short term disability insurance, if you can use that. I don't think you can use that. I don't think you can use that.

I'm not well-versed in that. You need to talk to your insurance person, but I don't think you can do that. Okay. If you take off three months to be with this newborn, can you go back to your job making $7,000 a month? Yeah. We have FMLA,

but it's just unpaid. um have you sat down and told your husband i'm i need us as a family to put pause on you're trying to start a business right now and because i need us to make sure we have an income even if that's throwing boxes at walmart like we got to we got to make sure we have enough money coming into the house. Yeah, we've talked about it a little bit. When did he start this, Erin, the new job, or starting his own? Like over the summer. Okay, so the past couple months.

What has he brought in each month with it? He hasn't had any clients yet so far. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I'll be honest, Erin. You guys are going to be parents. So you're adults at this point. And we have to make adult decisions. So when you are the breadwinner, as the wife you're adults at this point and we have to make adult decisions so when you are the breadwinner

as the wife you're carrying the financial responsibility and then physically carrying a baby and making a baby right now it's like making a spine or something as we're speaking like it's just crazy like you're doing all that and then then having the pressure of having to figure out how to make this work while he's trying to figure out how to start a business, this isn't going to work. It's not a good formula. So when I say we're grownups, we need to look at the reality of it. And I would tell him if he was on the call, okay, so sorry, but the health coaching concept is not working as of now.

Wouldn't doubt that it's not forever, but for this season, for the next probably year or so, we're going to put food on the table so that, Erin, you can have peace on this maternity leave and that the mortgage and the food and everything is being paid. And that's the grown-up decision. Starting your own business is a dream and it's wonderful and we love small businesses. I mean, we have a whole department

about people that are starting businesses. I mean, love it. But when it is not bringing in money and your wife is about to be home for three months and she's the breadwinner, it's not going to work. What does he tell you when you say,

hey, I'm scared that we're not going to have any money and you have no clients and you haven't had clients for months? What does he tell you when you say, Hey, I'm scared that we're not gonna have any money and you have no clients and you haven't had clients for months. What does he tell you? Um, just that, you know, he, it's like a process and it takes time to work up to it. And I mean, I was fine with it. Like we don't really spend a lot of money and, you know, I make pretty good money. So it wasn't worried. But it's more so just like now that we just found out we're having a baby, that's where I'm concerned. And what did he tell you when you said, hey, have you considered getting a job? Yeah, he has been applying to a lot of jobs. Okay.

That's good. Is he being picky or is he just willing to take anything right now to support his family? I think he's willing to take anything. He said that he's gotten declined from a lot of jobs because before the health coaching business, he was a business analyst and he was making good money doing that. So I think some of these places just feel like he's overqualified because he doesn't really want to go back to doing what he was doing before. It's not really his passion or anything. Yeah. I could give four boxes of farts about his passions right now he's got a baby gonna be here in a few months right and this is just i mean this is i don't know anybody with character and integrity

who hasn't had to do a thing they didn't really want to do on behalf of their family at some point and that's that's throwing boxes at walmart until you find something else that's going back to a high-paying business analyst job that doesn't make me feel passionate about. Like, I don't care right now. Because I can hear the fear in your voice. I'm getting worked up for you. Like, you're scared to death, aren't you? And Aaron, I'm betting that he doesn't know how scared you are. Is that true?

Because I don't want to bag on him if he doesn't know. Yeah, he probably doesn't know how scared you are. Is that true? Because I don't want to bag on him if he doesn't know. Yeah, he probably doesn't know. Okay. Will you be honest with him and tell him that you're scared to death? Yeah. And you're not a bad wife for doing that, Aaron. I think there's some level of like, oh my gosh, I feel bad that I'm making him. Yeah.

In a perfect world, he has the gumption to say, all right, my little dallying around didn't work. Or it's not working right now. I've got to go make some money. And he jumped in with both feet. I wish that was the case, but he's not. Yes. And it worked, Aaron, to this point. But now you have a baby on the way, which adds a whole level of expense.

And you're not going to be working for three months. So now the plan we had was fine. Now we just dumped it over and we have a whole other plan that we're having to make. So the shift has to occur. And don't feel guilty about that, Aaron. This is math and grown-up stuff. And I need him to step up and take care of you and his baby. You are not destroying his dream.

No, you are not at all. His inability to get clients has ended his dream now he's got to go do the next right thing i hope that helps aaron thanks for calling welcome back to the ramsay show so one of my favorite parts of this job is um people from all over the country they'll write a book that's important to them or they will make like a cool art project or something and send it in to us. And it's always amazing. My favorite are handwritten letters people will send.

And it's amazing. I got what I think is the gift that I will, I don't know, it just blew my mind. This amazing guy out in the lobby named Clark got, and I think George and Ken got theirs. Check this out. Dude, Clark made like a bobblehead kind of doll. There's a name for him.

What's the name for him? We're trying real hard to zoom in on it if you can put it on the desk. Okay, there we go. Made like figurines of me and Rachel. Funko Pop, is that what it's called? Yeah and Rachel. Funco Pop. Is that what it's called? Yeah, yeah. Funco Pop.

Yep, yep, yep. This is the raddest thing ever. And it literally has my Amazon. I have my Amazon belt on. And Rachel's holding a cell phone. And I'm holding a phone. Which is perfect. I was like, shoot.

Mine is making like the little metal sign. Dude. It's awesome. Incredible. This is one of the most touching gifts I've ever got. Thank you so much, Clark. This is amazing, brother. So great.

Thanks, Clark. That's awesome. Oh, gosh. I got a FaceTime call when Ken and George were hosting the show during a break. And I'm like,

George is FaceTiming me. And I was like, hey, and it's him and Ken. And they're like, hey, hey, what are you doing? And I was like, what are y'all doing? And they're like,

we just got these gifts. They literally called to show me. So Georgeorge camel y'all don't know this is always calling me and rachel and ken he's like hey i want to come over and play dolls and we're always like like george we got other stuff we can't um but now we can now we can join george uh which is which is how he's always that's so great this is awesome so fun so fun amazing clark oh all right let's go out to san francisco and talk to aj what's up aj hi rachel hi john can you hear me yes sir what's up man uh yeah so currently have open enrollment at work right now um trying to decide whether or not I should switch my health insurance plan. So my wife and I are both on with my employer through just a normal,

you know, HMO, low deductible, actually no deductible, low out-of-pocket max. But I was sitting through a presentation at work where they were talking about the high deductible that's paired with an HSA. I'm trying to figure out if I should switch to that. And kind of the caveat here if I could switch to that. And kind of a caveat here is if I switch to that, my employer's willing to fully fund, you know, the IRS max. So next year, that would be about $8,500. And it's one of those things where it almost feels, you know, too good to be true. You know, like, am I missing something here? Or is this a no-brainer where,

you know, my employer truly does just have a great benefit for us? Yeah. I mean, we have a similar, that's what I use, dude. Yeah. I was going to say the HSA and the high deductible. I mean, it's, it's a, it's a great option. And honestly, the, the HSA, when you use it for health expenses, I know many team members and we were just talking about it in a meeting recently. It's making me think about it. And a few of them were like, we love our HSA. Like it's so nice to be able to pull money out and to use it for health expenses. So for counseling appointments, for dental appointments, and you can use your HSA for just about anything. Yeah. And then it actually can be a vehicle for retirement specifically when you're later on way down

the baby steps and you're able to cashflow some of the deductibles and everything. You can actually use it as a means of investing later on too which is another great option um so yeah i mean i'm not like an expert when it comes to the the health insurance i want to make sure that yeah the big yeah the big questions here for you are do you have basically this doesn't work if you have don't have the money to cover the high deductible. So if it's a $5,000 plan, I personally would move $5,000 into an account that is essentially earmarked. And this is just me because I'm risk averse on certain things. Sometimes I'm overly risky, but I'm risk averse on this kind of stuff. I have an emergency fund and then I'd want to put five grand in that fund that is my,

if anything happens, my max deductible out of pocket is covered. Can you do that? Do you guys have enough cash flow to be able to do that? Yeah, we can definitely do that. I think because the out of pocket max would be 6,000. So I'm, you know, if my employer's paying the 8, $8,500 a year, giving that to me, it almost seems like I've always come out ahead, even after the difference in premiums. The only reason you would, and this is the other caveat, is if you know you have recurring pharmaceutical drugs,

or you've got recurring medical bills, or you've got certain things coming all of the time, right? And some people just have recurring medical costs that just make this prohibitive. I see. And as those costs come up, if you don't mind me asking a follow-up question, do you guys recommend paying out of pocket for medical expenses or pulling it out of that HSA? I've kind of heard a couple of different schools have thought on it. I pull mine out of the HSA, but George, I think doesn't. I don't. If you're able to cover it out of pocket. Yeah. But it's a, but again, it's a, it's a, I'm not against pulling it out. I mean, it's a great app. I think it's six way up does another, I think down the road, like they say, it's like another retirement vehicle.

Like Dave maxes his out completely. We do it in my house just because of ease. But I think it's, and I'm losing money on it, I know that. And honestly, it's great to even have the option though. Yeah. Does that help, AJ? Yeah, it definitely does. Yeah, I think, like I said, even after, you know, I'll pay a little bit more in premiums. Um, I'll pay some state taxes to California,

but then besides that, you know, it seems like even if I hit that out of pocket max, you know, it's still net, maybe a thousand bucks or whatever that my employer is giving me a year where I hardly have any expenses. Your employer probably will only do this once. No, they're going to fund it every year. So they're paying it. Oh, well, dude, I'd say it's a no-brainer. If you don't have chronic medical condition, dude, I think that would be a no-brainer then. Okay.

Yeah, I think that's kind of where I was leaning. It just seems like, yeah, like I said, it does seem a little too good to be true, you know. And I guess one final thing is you might want to look to make sure your doctors are... It just seems like, yeah, like I said, it does seem a little too good to be true, you know? And I guess one final thing is you might want to look to make sure your doctors are... And network. Yeah, I don't even know if that matters. But yeah, to see where your doctors are. And dude, I've, I don't know, I do a lot of cash pay with my doctors now. I'm just letting them know I'm paying out of an HSA.

What's the cash pay on this? And sometimes I say it's the same. And sometimes you're like, oh, it's just this. And you get a discount. Yeah yeah you get a significant discount so it changes it changes the idea the way health care has been for the last x number of years which is i just pay into a fund and i don't worry about it and i think more and more people are realizing no we all have to take an active role in our health outsourcing that to some other for-profit entity is not the future

because they have a for-profit interest in making profit, not in us being well. I see. Awesome. I appreciate the insight. Yeah, you got it, man. So I guess at the end of the day, the best we could tell you is research.

And when you say that, hold on, go back to what you were just saying. Is that because the HSA gives you more control? Well, it makes me do this. So instead of whenever I have a cold, I just automatically run to a doc on the box, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Somebody on the corner. A walk-in clinic kind of thing.

And I just expect them to make me, give me an antibiotic and a shot and a thing. Yeah. And then they bill some imaginary number to some imaginary faceless group. And then it's all okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right?

Well, HMO costs just keep getting more and more and more and more expensive. Yeah. And so now I have a vested interest to A, how can I stay well on the day-to-day and eat less garbage and maybe exercise more so I get sick less, right? And when I get sick, ask myself, am I really sick? And you see what I'm saying? Start taking a vested interest in my own health.

Yes. And you're saying the HSA does that because you're seeing cash there. It's the same thing Dave used to say about like when you swipe a credit card yep it's different than handing some $100 bills right when it's coming out of an account with my name on it it's just I treat my health differently yep that's great so good AJ thanks for thanks for the call and it is a good reminder here at Ramsey we have open enrollment right now for health insurance a lot of companies are so we do right now just yes John were you in staff meeting on Monday I was in staff meeting, were you in staff meeting on Monday? I was in staff meeting.

I was actually in staff meeting on Monday. Okay. Yes. We are open for the next two weeks. Make sure you re-up and we'll get HR to help you, John. Oh, good. So anyone that's like John and is unaware of details of your life, make sure you have health insurance and it doesn't expire. All right, Rachel.

And it doesn't expire. Wow. That's a lesson. Maybe that's why AJ called. I'm going back to playing with my doll. Maybe the Lord gave us AJ to remind John that you need health insurance. I'm logging in during the break right now. Yes. Okay, and you know what? I'm going to go back to this, though, because they

called to show me about Clark, but remember, they also called. Has this ever happened to you? Hasn't happened to me in all of Ramsey's show history. They had a caller on the show, and they said, oh, I thought I really wanted Rachel to be on today, and it was Ken and George, and they called to tell me that show and they said, oh, I thought I really wanted Rachel to be on today. And it was Ken and George. And they called to tell me that.

I was like, I feel so good. This is the Ramsey Show. One of the best ways to win with your money is to be intentional. And that's also one of the biggest mistakes people make is they just get the paycheck in and live life and hope everything kind of works out and put some savings here. Maybe we do this or that there. But they don't really have an actual detailed game plan. And that is why creating a budget and sticking to it is so important long term. And EveryDollar is the best budgeting app

out there to help you. I mean, it helps you with your spending. It helps you track expenses to save for things that really matter. And it actually is wonderful because it's there on your phone and it's an app and you have your phone with you all the time. And there you go. You're able to get on the budget just like me and my little and my daughter there. Just have her phone with her all the time. So keep your spending on track and make progress when it comes to your money With EveryDollar

You can download EveryDollar for free In the App Store or Google Play Or click the link in the description below If you are listening on the app Alright, let's go to Martin in Chicago, Illinois Hey Martin, welcome to the show Hey, thank you guys for having me.

Hope you guys are doing well. Absolutely. Yes, thanks for calling. How can we help? So I just have like a quick question. It's regarding with the 529 plans. I was wondering, is it better to have one for all the children that we have, plan to have, or

should I have multiple for each child? I just want to know your thoughts on that. Yeah recommend having multiple even though if you just had one you could still use it within the family so if you had one account you could you know take some money out for each kid but uh when we talked to our financial advisor actually we talked to him about this probably two years ago and he recommended which i agree with having one in each child's name just number one if something were to ever happen to you guys that like it's just a clear like hey here every kid has their own account um and depending on the ages of the kids the investments might look different

so if you did have a kid that was you know 12 versus one they may invest the money within the 529 differently more aggressively or more passively depending on the money within the 529 differently, more aggressively or more passively, depending on the age of the kid. So having separate accounts for each child is what we recommend. Would you recommend? Okay. And then if you don't mind, can I just like ask a really quick follow-up question? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So for like the, to having multiple accounts would be best, but also I heard about the um there's the 529 then the college saving um plan um yes so would you is there anyone you would prefer better because i know i get more technically tax benefits on the 529 you do yes yeah i would still do the 529 um

yeah yeah they um it's the universal transfer minors act is the upma so that means basically that the accounts um you're still like the the overrider of it as the adult in it but these accounts within 529s are within the child's name and um actually the biden administration passed it's probably been about two years now, that if you have that account open, a 529 account, I want to say it's for 50, it has to be open for almost, I think, 15 years. You can actually transfer $35,000 total out of each account in the beneficiary's name to a Roth IRA. So even if you don't use all the money in the 529, some of that can be transferred to a Roth in the child's name, which is awesome. So it kind of gives you a little bit of options there as well.

But yeah, from the tax standpoint, the 529s, I think it's a great option. It's what we have for our kids. Yeah, 529s are tax-free. You pull that money out and UTMAs are taxed. I think it's, yeah, about $2,000, $2,100. You may have more options with the utma it may not it may not be as strict from like an educational standpoint because i do know 529s and

esas there's you know there's restrictions on them on what you use them for some you can use within housing for the education it has to be for education it can only be transferred within a family unit i mean there's some degrees of it where the other one you may be able to use for non-educational expenses, depending on what kind of account. But again, if your kids are going to go to college and that's the plan overall, 529. So you're exactly right, John. Yeah. From a tax standpoint, it's a great investment. Okay. Because I was just wondering, because I heard about the best way to grow your money from another famous investor out there, shout out to Warren Buffett and trialmonger, to get

to 100K as fast as possible. So I thought maybe if you used one, I could contribute more to it. Oh, I gotcha. Yeah. Spread it out. But I just wanted to know from your guys' opinion, what's probably the best route forward just to- Yeah.

How many kids do you have? The best financial success. Well, currently we have, I know it's a little ahead of me, but we currently just have a boy. He's six months old, but we're planning another one soon. Yeah, for sure. I just want to just make sure I have everything lined up as best as I can now before it gets crazier. For sure. No, that's great. Dude, I have a soft spot in my heart for people who try to solve future problems as a way to make themselves feel better in the present. Good for you. Yeah, thank you. And by the way, this is a recipe to make yourself insane. So just do this for a minute and then let it go. Okay. Okay. Good. Think about this.

By the time you have a kid, a second kid, let's say you have a six month old right now. Yes. So let's say I'm making up something. Let's say in a year you have a six month old right now yes so let's say um i'm making up something let's say in a year you have another kid that would be um uh four four ish four and a half presidential elections from now we'll be four and a half presidents by the time they go to by the time you're that kid would go to college. That's a different perspective. I didn't think about that. Do you know what's going to happen in the next two weeks?

I don't. Yeah. I don't. So four and a half presidents from now? I do, bro. That's a problem for future John. That is a problem for future John. I'm just going to do the next right thing in front of me, and when I have another kid, we'll think of those accounts,

and we have another kid, we'll think of that account. But I do, hey, as one fellow over-worrier in the future to another, good on you, brother. Congratulations. All right. Thank you. Thank you. My parents gave so much to me,

so I just want to make sure I give it back just the same. The fact that you're even asking that question tells me your kids won the freaking lottery with you as their dad yeah and the fact you're asking should i do one 529 or multiple for all the kids that's even either way you're going to be fine martin most people right now in america are asking should i have stop at one drink or should i have a second margarita that could be martin too you never know he could be thinking about that and good on martin and having some 529 conversations that's right right. Good for you, brother. Thanks, Martin. Thanks for the call.

I know. I will say, this is where I always struggle. This is the part of investing, like investing in retirement. It's like, I'm going to do it because I know it's wise. It kind of feels like my money's going in a black hole. And 60-year-old Rachel, I think, will be bougier than Rachel today. That's impossible. She's going to be happy that Rachel today did all of this, right?

I can get there. But the college, and again, hear me, we are funding our kids' college, but I still always have this question mark about how much it's changing. And like, what is, to your point, what is college going to look like? I'm like, we have a five, you know,

Charles is five, he's our youngest. But I'm like, man, in, you know, 12 years, like, I mean, who knows what's going to happen it's going to be one of two things it will either be unbundled and be very different or it will be seven thousand dollars a credit hour so yeah I know I know either way I think that's that's where we don't know the future and I know you were joking earlier but it's true like we really don't know what's going to happen and so you have to make decisions based on the facts you have today and as of today here's what we see you know in the college conversation um here's what we see and if you think that you are a family where your

kids and you prioritize college um i would say to still move forward even though it does it just feels like this like it feels weird ambiguous yeah here's the phrase and it's it's from aa but it's an important phrase which is do the next right thing so here's something i planned and this sound that sounds ridiculous um the day after the election i set up i have a series of morning practices that i do um some of which i got from the great arthur brooks i i made sure that i had the spiritual time in the morning planned and i planned a like a silly hard workout that no matter what was going to get done and i opened my eyes and usually my wife and i kind of eyeball each other who's going to make the bed and then right i made the bed and did the spiritual practice and then went and lifted hard and it

was a matter of i don't know the night before who's going to win. I don't know what kind of text messages I'm going to get, people panicking. I'm going to go do the next right thing that I know over the course of one day is going to make me feel and do better. Right? And I have to believe if college all goes away, that there will be another thing that comes up. The 529 money is not going to all evaporate.

There will be a next right plan for that. So I'm not going to go down the rabbit holes. I'm going to do the next right thing. So good. So good. Speaking of rabbit holes, the moon landing was real. They landed on the moon. This is The Ramsey Show.

We'll be right back. Our scripture of the day comes from Proverbs 1125. A generous person will prosper. Whoever refreshes, refuses others will, I'm sorry, whoever refreshes others will be refreshed. Sorry, Proverbs. I butchered it. Hold on. Let's do it again. A generous person will prosper. Whoever refreshes others will be refreshed. I thought it was going to be the opposite. Proverbs is usually like generous people will prosper. If you refuse a person, you'll be refused.

I don't know. That's what I thought it was going to say. Refreshed. Again, I want to let everybody know that the Rachel Cruz reading program is on sale. RamseySolutions.com slash store. It's 95% off. In fact, we're just giving it away. I was expecting the opposite. I was expecting the opposite.

Proverbs really... Coming out with the Rachel's version of the Bible. Yeah, just the Rachel Bible. I can do my own Proverbs. Maybe I can make up my own Proverbs. I think you could. Whoever refuses, someone should be refused. How about that?

Whoever refreshes somebody. That's nice. So fresh and so clean. P.T. Barnum said, money in some respects is like fire. It's a very excellent servant, but a very terrible master. There you go. There you go. All right.

That was a great movie too. P.T. Barnum, The Greatest Showman. Oh, yeah. Excellent. All right. That was a great movie, too. P.T. Barnum, The Greatest Showman. Oh, yeah. Excellent. All right, let's refresh or what was it? Refuse. Refuse. Pick your poison out in Boston.

Let's go to Laura. We got Laura on the line. Hey, Laura, welcome to the show. Hi, thank you for having me on. Absolutely. How can we help? Well, I don't even know if I might be a lost cause because I've got everything paid off.

No such thing, Laura. Except my pickup. No such thing. Hey, the fact that you're driving a pickup in Boston makes you awesome. Well, I'm on the way outskirts. I'm western Massachusetts, actually. I'm still shouting you out. That's kind of a gangster move.

So why do you think you're a lost cause? Well, I'm 67 years old and my husband died in February of 23. He was a Vietnam veteran and thank you. And he was under the assumption he didn't need life insurance because I was going to be taking care of by the VA money that he was getting, but that wasn't true. Oh man. So, um, I've got a portion of his VA money and his social security money. I did have to sell the house, my house in Montana. I'm living with my mom right now and and I got rid of an expensive horse trailer. I got unloaded that because that was a big bill, and I pay my credit cards off every month. I have two small ones.

I have the pickup left, and my total income, monthly income, is $4,692. How long is that lasting? I owe, let's see. Hey, Laura, how long will you be receiving $4,000 a month? It'll go up the next year. But I mean, that's not finite, right? That's his benefits indefinitely until you pass away? Yes.

Okay. Or unless I get remarried, which that ain't going to happen. I'm done on that rodeo. Does it go up each year, Laura? Yes, it goes up whatever the Social Security increases. Yeah, the inflation index. Yeah, okay. Yeah.

Okay. It only goes up baby amounts. So you're with your mom right now right and i try to take care of the bills and the groceries what is her what's her financial situation oh not great she has got a home equity loan she's 88 years old she'll be 89 in february um and she rents out space in the house here. So she's, you know, she's okay, but property taxes here are really hard on her. Yeah.

Is she just living off Social Security or did she have retirement or what is she making money off of? A little bit of Social Security, a little bit of retirement, and she does put care for shut-in senior citizens. So how much is she bringing in a month? I'm going to say probably only about $1,500 a month. $1,500, okay.

When you sold everything, when you sold all of your stuff in Montana, did that leave you with a small nest egg? Do you have an account somewhere or did that just set you at even? I have a very small nest egg because I had to pay off Anderson windows that my husband wanted to put in. I paid off the mortgage because I sold the house too. I sold my tractor. But did you get any equity from the house sale? Yes, I did.

Okay, so that's what you're hanging on to right now. How much is in the savings account right now? Well, the savings is only about $500, but in the checking account is where I have everything, and it's about $30,000. Okay. So after selling a tractor, the trailer, the house, all you have left is $30,000?

Yes. Okay. Because I don't have any other debt because I did pay it all off. All the other off. Okay. Just the pickup. It is just,

it's an expensive pickup. Yeah, and you're going to need to sell that one, unfortunately. Whenever your mom passes away, will you take over residence there? Is that a place for you to live long term? No, no. Get me out of here.

I have to be back in Tennessee or Montana. I can't stand it. Okay. Well, I get that emotionally, but I'm just, I mean, you're in a pretty tight math problem. Yes, I am. How much money does it take to run the household for you and your mom a month boy i that's a good question i do not know how much she spends when she gets it it goes what is she spending it on i show my groceries that aren't necessary Okay So I would sit down with her

And I would almost look At you guys as roommates Slash like a married couple in a sense That hey we're running a household Together And here's the deal mom I'm 69 Here's what I have coming in

You're not going to be working But here's what you're bringing in with everything. And so how can we together look at this? And it's almost $6,000 a month that you guys have, again, coming in to the household to keep the household afloat, which is not terrible. How much is the mortgage payment?

She doesn't share any of that with me unfortunately how does it get paid she i she pays it out of out of an account she does she does have rent i i gives rent money that comes in okay because she's renting out a bedroom in the house yeah uh down she has an apartment two bedroom apartment downstairs so how can we help you i feel likeroom apartment downstairs. So how can we help you? I feel like I'm talking too much. How can we help you? I don't know. I just need to be grounded somehow and figure out where I should go from here.

Yeah, I think the number one thing I would do is sit down with your mom and you guys together look at everything. Because I think what's hard is you can't make a plan with numbers that you don't know what they are. Right, right. And the truth is, yes you you need to know where she's at and you're living with her so if she's like no I'm taking care of the mortgage and all that that's fine I don't care how you guys divvy up things but just for you all to be able to run a household um I think it's gonna be important because you're gonna be there taking care of her and so um making sure that that everything is staying current and then seeing what is left as well and then laura how much is left on the truck did you say payment wise

um or debt wise is 37 000 okay yeah i would be selling the truck um i yeah i'd get something cheap and that's that payment how much is that a month uh $600. Yeah, that's going to free you up a lot. You don't need to be paying $600 for a truck a month. I would get rid of that. Here's the thing I'm going to tell you. It hurts my guts to tell you this, okay? You have to go find work. Well, I do have some side hustles I've been doing,

but they're not steady. Yeah, they're not steady. You need to go find a job and work in retail. You got to go find a job that you can get another $1,500 or $2,000 a month. It's not a ton, but that will transform your life over the long haul. Yeah, because that $30,000 is what I'm thinking for you to sit down with a SmartVestor Pro and figure out, hey, how can I invest this wisely? Because you could have a good 20 years left. And if you do the rule of seven is that your money will double every seven years. And so to sit down with somebody and say, hey, for the next 20 years, what do I need to be doing now

to set myself up well for the long term? But for today, Laura, I would sit down with your mom and make sure that everything is covered from a household perspective. I think that will give you a lot of peace to have some of these numbers. But Christian can pick up and help direct you on ramseysolutions.com to find a great smart investor pro in your area. But I would really recommend sitting down with someone for your long-term investing. But thanks for the call, Laura. I hope that helped. Thanks to all the guys in the booth. John, thank you for being a great co-host. And thank you, America. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll see you next time.