The Ramsey Show - App - Thoughts on Paying Debt Instead of Tithing (Hour 2)

Episode Date: March 19, 2019

The show about you

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Kenneth is in Alaska.

Hey, Kenneth, how are you? Hey, Dave, I'm doing really well. Thanks for you and your staff taking some time to hear me out here. Appreciate it. Sure. How can I help? Hey, so we live in Alaska and I have household income right now of right about $59,000 a year. We have a home we live in, in kind of rural Alaska,

and that home, we're taking care of the mortgage payment, no problem on that. It is a 30-year note, but we have a second property that's in Anchorage, which is about four hours away, and we have some really solid renters in there. The problem is we are losing money on that rental, and my wife and I, we differ a little bit on kind of what to do. We basically have $75,000, at least that, in equity built up into that condo. And the issue is we would have it paid off in about nine years from now, but the condo dues keep going up on this thing. They're going from $350, $380 a month for this next year. And I foresee it going up again in the future. So my question to you is, if we're losing

roughly $4,500 a year on this property, you know, we don't want to lose the renters, but do we increase the rent? Do we sell it? We are on baby step two. We have $6,000 left in credit card debt to pay off, and then we are debt-free besides the house. And what's the condo worth? The condo is worth $225,000. Okay. Let's visit your house 10 years from now. The condo's paid off, and it's worth $300,000 or whatever at that point,

and the HOA dues are still going up, and you've still got tenants in it. If you were in that situation, would you buy that condo if you had $300,000 in the middle of your kitchen table and no debt and you just pay cash for it? Would you buy that condo? Because I don't think you got into this condo to lose money for year after year after year, hoping that someday you have it paid for. I think this condo you had before, you moved out of it, and you became a landlord by default. I don't think this was your game plan. It wasn't your strategy.

You've held your nose and tolerated it. You're exactly right. Yeah, my wife actually purchased this on her own before we even met, and she lived there with some roommates for years, was very, very wise with that purchase and that money. And now we moved. We changed jobs. We have kids.

And we kept that, and I'm glad we did. But at this point – I'm not. I'm not. You should sell it. Okay. Thank you. We should sell it.

And then as far as – Because if you call me up and said, I have $100,000 in the middle of the table, and I want to go buy a condo and put $100,000 down and lose $4,500 a month, unstable homeowner situation, HOA situation, where they're going up in cost all the time, you wouldn't even ask that question.

Right. And in a sense, when you decide to keep it, that's the decision you're making is to buy it again. Right? I mean, the amount of equity that you have sitting in the middle of your kitchen table, would you go buy a condo that loses $4,500 in an unstable HOA? No. Definitely not. Right.

And so that answers the question. If you wouldn't buy it again, you sell it. Okay. Okay. Thank you wouldn't buy it again, you sell it. Okay. Okay. Thank you, Dave. Appreciate that advice. Hey, good question. Thank you for calling in.

I love real estate, you guys, but real estate is an amazing thing. There's very few pieces of real estate that are just kind of, eh, kind of in the middle. The piece of real estate you own is either like, yeah, that's awesome, or this thing sucks. It's sucking the marrow out of my bones. Real estate really falls on one side or the other. And somehow people got the idea that all real estate purchases are a good idea. All real estate ownership is a good idea.

It's not. It's not. I love real estate. The vast majority of my net worth. All real estate ownership is a good idea. It's not. It's not. I love real estate. The vast majority of my net worth is in real estate. I have more in real estate 2, 3x than I do in the stock market. And I love the stock market too. I've got good mutual fund investments, millions of dollars in that. I love it. But I got my real estate license in 1978 when I was 18 years old, and I have just been simultaneously terrified and enthralled at how people lump real estate. It's almost like they do it with their college education. It's like all college education is good and worth the money, and you'll be glad you did it.

All education is good. All real estate is good. Eh, eh, eh, wrong answer. You spend $250,000 getting a degree in German polka history. All college education is not good. It's not worth the money. Some of it is very good and worth the money, and you don't pay as much for it and you get a lot more.

Same thing with real estate, right? And so you can't just put this blanket thing that says, I always wanted to own real estate. No, you didn't. You always wanted to own good real estate. I always wanted to get my degree. No, you didn't. You always wanted to get a good degree at a reasonable cost that would cause

you to make more money as a result of getting the degree that's what you wanted to do but you can't just throw this thing out there and go all education all real estate and people do that and he wasn't doing that but i it's it terrifies me sitting in this chair when i hear people just go well it's all going to work out. The renters are going to pay for it. You've never been a landlord. When you say the renters are going to pay for it, that tells me you've never been a landlord.

You don't know what the flip you're talking about. Because, you know, I have good renters. I have really good renters on our property. You know why? Because we don't let the bad ones in. But this idea that renters are going to pay for it and not put a $10,000 cat in your house, because that's what they'll do to your house, is spend $10,000 worth of damage to your house. You know, that's, you know, no, no.

All renters are not good. And renters don't pay for it. Rent pays for it. Renters are necessary in order to get rent. But that's all from a landlord's perspective. And so it's a financial transaction. It's not a dehumanizing thing. I'm not mad at you if you're a renter.

I've been a renter. I'm not. It's none of that. Don't get all philosophical and pissed off on Twitter. Or go jump off a creek if you're going to. Jump off a bridge if you're going to into the creek. But the bottom line is this. It's a transaction, and the rent has to bring in a ton more than the costs are for it to be fun financially for the landlord.

That's how this works. It's an investment. And we're trying to get a return on investment. And not all investments are good. Ooh, that was insightful. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. The last thing I want you to feel is buyer's remorse, especially when you offered thousands more on a new home to win a bidding war. If I've taught you anything, it's that blindly throwing money at a problem is a stupid plan

and something you'll regret for years. The key to avoiding this rookie mistake is to call Churchill Mortgage and get certified. This easy program puts you miles ahead of your competition because you are pre-underwritten. Your interest rate is secured and yes, you can close within 14 days. Don't fall into the trap of offering more money just to compensate for a poor plan. Call Churchill Mortgage today and get certified. Call 888-LOAN-200 or visit churchillmortgage.com. This is a paid advertisement. NMLS ID 1591.

NMLSconsumeraccess.org. Equal housing lender. 761 Old Hickory Boulevard, Brentwood, Tennessee 37027. Thank you for being with us, America. It's common sense for your dollars and cents, but nothing's more uncommon than common sense. When you've got common sense, it's kind of like having a superpower these days. Iris is with us in Lawton, Oklahoma. Hi, Iris. How are you?

Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. I'm great. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Okay. So I have Baby Step 1 done, and I have a few different paths I can take from here.

I need some advice. Okay. So behind door number one is set cash aside for a move that is going to happen probably in the fall where my rent will at minimum double. Or should I pay down my car, which I'm upside down in, and sell it? Stop, stop, stop. Why are you moving in the fall when your rent would double? Well, I'm really lucky in the rent department right now.

My rent is super cheap right now. But the move in the fall is to be closer to my son. To be closer to your son? Yes. How old is your son? He's 11. Okay, and he's with his dad? Yes, sir.

Okay, and where does he live? He lives a little over an hour away in the Oklahoma City area. Okay, all right. And what do you make a year? He lives a little over an hour away in the Oklahoma City area. Okay. All right. And what do you make a year? So monthly I'll bring home anywhere from $2,400 to $3,400. Mm-hmm. Okay.

And how long have you been an hour away from your son? Right. So I just graduated from nursing school. Oh. So for the past two two years i don't have any family in the area it's just me out here all my family's in california so i didn't want to do both really important jobs poorly so my son went to live with his father for for this time and i want to go up there okay all right and so you're now a nurse yes sir and you passed your boards when um i graduated in may and i've been working in an emergency department since

july and you make what again i'll bring home anywhere from 24 to 3400 dollars a month okay all right and you're just starting off as your first nursing job, and you're in a lot in Oklahoma. So you would make a lot more in Oklahoma City, and you'd have a lot more opportunity for nursing side gigs or everywhere. I mean, working ER and everything else, there's always, just about always, a shortage of nurses. And so if you make yourself very available. Now, how much debt do you have? Right around $50,000.

On what? So student loans is $27,000, credit cards is $6,000, and then the car is right around $17,000 that I owe. Pretty expensive car in your situation. Yeah, there is a series of poor car buying decisions there. Gotcha. Okay. Well, the good news is, is that you can probably make 70 to 80,000 a year working like a crazy person in Oklahoma City, get you an inexpensive rent, being near your child and get this debt paid off in probably 18 months if you make the move.

But you're going to be working a lot when you do that, okay, in order to get this mess cleaned up. And yes, your rent's going to be, how much is your rent in Lawton? I got so lucky. It's only $425 right now. Okay. All right. Well, Kansas City is more expensive than Lawton.

It is not double and not necessarily that you have to double your rent to live in Oklahoma City. I said Kansas City, Oklahoma City. It is Oklahoma City you're talking about, right? Yes, sir. Okay, all right. Yeah, I think you don't start your debt snowball right now. I think you don't start your total money makeover. You just push pause, and you pile up cash in order to make this move.

Why would you wait until fall? You just wait until you have the money, right? Yeah, so I have a contract with the hospital that I'm working with now. I have to wait for that to finish, and then I can go up there. Okay. I mean, I can leave where I'm working now. Okay. All right.

And that's in the fall? Well, really summer, but... Okay. All right. As soon as you the fall? Well, really summer, but. Okay. All right. As soon as you got the money and you're out of that contract, you go. But listen, don't just make, do not, here's what I don't want you to do. Okay. And I might be hearing this here, but I'm not sure if I'm hearing it.

So I'm just going to say it out loud. Okay. So we all heard it. Okay. I don't want you to go, hey, I've been away from my child for a little while. I'm finally making some money. It's worth any cost to be near my baby. And if you go into hyper mode like that, I'm going to choke you, okay?

Because you're going to go up there and pay way too much for rent, and you rationalize the crap out of renting something you couldn't afford when you could have found something cheap. Okay? So go find something cheap and be near your baby and kick it into gear and let's get this debt cleaned up. How old are you? I'm 32. Perfect.

All right. You are poised for the best section of your life. You understand that, right? Yes, sir. Some of the dumb decisions are behind you. Yeah, I've learned a lot for sure. Yeah. The hard way. Yeah, money-wise, life-wise, sir. Some of the dumb decisions are behind you. Yeah, I've learned a lot for sure, the hard way. Yeah, money-wise, life-wise, everything. So you've got a new degree.

You've got a new career. You've got new wisdom that you didn't have. You're going to go be near your child. I think that's awesome, and it's exactly what you should do. But let's do it with wisdom, and that means rent the cheapest freaking place you can find so you get this mess cleaned up, okay? Mm-hmm. And the car, even though that's kind of a high payment.

I think you can pay it off if you want to work like an animal for a little while. Okay. You may want to dump it. I don't care whether you dump it or not, but it's a lot of money. But if you're going to work like a – I mean, if you'll do what I'm talking about and you just take like the equivalent of two full-time jobs in Oklahoma City, you'll be debt-free so fast. Because you're going to clear the whole 50 grand. Because you've not made this kind of money. You've been living on nothing forever.

Just don't raise your lifestyle. Don't go buy a bunch of furniture. Don't go sign up for a timeshare. Don't go on vacation. Don't go buy and use a credit card okay don't act like you're rich because you got some money coming in clean up the mess because you got some money coming in does that make sense yes sir i think if you do that you're going to be just fine and you really got a really good future i see i'm looking at your windshield with you it looks good over

there i like the road drive it drive it drive it very well done open phones at 888-825-5225 jacob is with us in cincinnati hi jacob how are you hey sir how you doing better than i deserve how can i help so i am 21 years old uh i'm a full-time police officer in the Cincinnati area. My fiancee, she'll be graduating undergrad here soon and then be going to medical school. So I live at home right now. We are both debt-free. I have a little bit of money saved up. I'm a new listener.

I have a good understanding of the baby steps, but really we're just sort of looking, you know, what's the best step to go from here um should i not be putting anything into uh my agency has a 437b deferred comp yeah when's the mail you said fiance do you have your date set uh it's going to be next fall this coming fall this coming no September of next fall. Of 2020? Yes. You guys plan out there, don't you? Yeah, we've been together since high school, about six years so far.

All right. Who's paying for med school? Her and I are. When does she start med school? So it'll be January of 2020. So she'll finish up undergrad May of 2020, and then she'll start med school that January. Okay. It would be January 2021. Well, I would recommend that you either change your wedding date or you change your plan. I would not pay for med school for someone I'm not married to. Okay.

Under any circumstances. Okay. Well, in the circumstances that we are married and we will be married. Then I would use every dollar I can scrape together to pay cash for med school and have no debt. Okay. If you can come out of med school and debt free you're a freaking unicorn and she's going to be set up to be i mean you guys are going to set up to be make so stinking much money because you're making what 80 uh about yeah about 70 with every time yeah okay

right now but that'll go up yeah and you're just but you're just getting into law enforcement so yeah you're going to be making bank and she's going to come out making $100, $100.50, $200, depending on her area of specialization. If you can pull all of that off debt-free, woo-hoo, touchdown, baby. So that's what you're going to aim at. The best investment you can make is in your wife, the doctor. That's a better investment than mutual funds. But I said your wife. I didn't say your fiance.

So let's work that out. This is the Dave budget each month. Pure Talk USA offers smarter wireless with unlimited plans starting as low as $20 per month. You never pay data overage fees and we never turn off your data. No contracts, no hidden fees. And if you're thinking our low cost means less coverage, think again. Our voice and data service covers 99% of Americans. And our 4G LTE network provides the fastest internet speeds like more expensive carriers.

We operate on the largest GSM network in the U.S. to ensure you receive reliable coverage virtually anytime, anywhere. Plus, you can keep your same phone and number and add multiple lines to save more. We're so confident you'll love Pure Talk USA that we invite you to try our service risk-free. Visit puretalkusa.com or call 844-862-3677. Enter promo code SAVEDAVE and receive 50% off your first month. That's puretalks.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings, free samples, free shipping, new promos all the time. Use the promo code Ramsey.

They give us our question of the day from avery in georgia i'm 17 years old i'll be graduating from high school in may every time i get a paycheck i pay for my bills then i put the leftover money into my currently 1500 emergency fund when i get my car serviced whether it's a simple oil change or unexpected needing transmission replaced, should I pay for it out of my emergency fund or a second savings account? Your emergency fund should be for emergencies, which would be an unexpected car event. Tires don't wear out unexpectedly. Oil changes are not unexpected.

Transmissions going out are unexpected. Gas is not unexpected. Regular tune-ups are not unexpected. And so you put a rhythm in your budget for car repairs, normal car maintenance, and then you use the emergency fund for big items that surprise you and are unexpected. That's how we determine what an emergency is. So going on vacation, for some of you, you need to remember, is not an emergency.

Peggy is in Cincinnati. Hi, Peggy. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hello, Dave. Thank you for taking my call. Sure, what's up? Well, I am retiring at the age of 66. My husband is 68.

And I was talking, I'm retiring from the Postal Service. I was talking to the Federal Retirement Counselor and I have $380,000 in my thrift savings plan. Good for you. And I know that you always say do a rollover so you don't pay taxes on it. Uh-huh.

And you talk about good growth mutual funds. She said I need multiple IRAs. Do I need multiple IRAs? Do I need multiple IRAs? No. I didn't think so. It sounded like you were just talking about one IRA. Well, I mean, each of the mutual funds might have a separate account number on it. That's possible.

But it's basically just one IRA. It may technically be four by the time you do the rollover. But we are going to roll it into the four types of mutual funds, growth, growth and income, aggressive growth, and international. If you want to be a little more conservative at your age, you would replace the aggressive growth with a balanced. But something like that, when you sit down with a SmartVestor Pro, and yes, I would do a rollover into traditional, not Roth, because I don't want to pay the taxes on it. Now, at 70 and a half, there is an RMD, a required minimum distribution. You'll be required to start pulling money out. And so just, you know, be prepared for that.

Okay, now this is a traditional one that I have now. I'm sorry? My Thrift Savings Plan is traditional. It's not a Roth. Yeah, so it would be a Roth. I mean, it'd be a traditional when you roll it over. Don't do a Roth. Just let it, just let it be traditional. There's no taxes on that. Let it continue to grow. Do you need money off of it now? No, our income will be about $58,000 a year between Social Security and my pension. And you plan to live on that? We plan to live on that.

Phenomenal. We've been living on that. We own our house. It's worth at least $300,000. Way to go. We drive old used cars. I love it. So does he have a nest egg in his plan?

No, he does not. Okay. No, but we do have a $30,000 emergency fund. Okay. So you've got a $700,000 net worth. You're almost millionaires. Way to go. Thank you.

Well, it's partly due to you because listening to you, we finally decided to get serious and get the house paid off before retirement. I'm glad you did. It puts you in a real comfortable position, doesn't it?

It feels pretty good. Yeah, you can have a pretty good life on 58 grand with no house payments or anything, right? We are hoping so. We think so. And see, here's the thing. If you leave that money alone invested well, in about seven years it'll double. Wow. Well, how much do you think they will make me take out when I'm 70 and a half?

What do you think they are? They have got a formula on it. It's not much. It's not going to damage it severely. But there's just a certain amount. What it amounts to is they don't want you to die with all that money in there with no taxes. They want to get their tax money, so they force it out. That's all it is. But it's not that heavy.

It's not that stringent a schedule. And so I wouldn't worry about that. I think you're going to end up some, you know, let's see, 66. By the time you're 73, yeah, you're going to have well in excess of a million-dollar net worth. If you live on that 58, that's what's going to happen. You have done very well. Congratulations. I'm proud of you.

Open phones at 888-825-5225. Caitlin is in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. Hi, Caitlin. How are you? I'm good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Okay. I'm good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Okay, so last January 2018, I did something dumb and I leased a car. And then I started watching you and I learned that I wasn't supposed to do that. Right. But about three months after I leased the car, I did another stupid thing and I accidentally backed into my dumpster with it. And this is when I was in between insurance. So insurance couldn't pay for it. Luckily, we have insurance now, so that's covered. But I don't really know what to do with this car

because I don't really have the money to replace the bumper. It's not a huge damage, but I also don't know. The lease ends in two years. So I'm not sure what to do about it. How big is the dent? It's kind of, I would say, like basketball size. I mean, it's not a big dent. That's a pretty good size dent.

Basketballs are bigger than softballs. Okay. Yeah. All right. Have you gotten an estimate from a body shop on repairing it? No, not yet. Okay. Yeah. All right. Have you gotten an estimate from a body shop on repairing it? No, not yet. Okay. Tell them you don't have insurance, you're paying cash, and you need to repair it as inexpensively as possible and go get an estimate and put that in your budget. budget because if you turn a car in on a lease with a basketball-sized dent,

they're going to leave a basketball-sized dent in your checkbook. Right. I wasn't sure if I should just buy the car after the lease or if that would help. Well, we don't have to buy it because of the dent, but if you wanted to buy it, and it's a good deal you could if you've got the cash so what do you think the car what is the what was the sticker price on the time you took out the car lease um it was a 2017 nissan rogue and i want to say it was like twenty thousand dollars around there 20 or 28 maybe 28 okay that sounds about right so 28 and uh that and you leased it

18 well no just a little over a year ago and your lease is how long a two-year or three-year lease three years okay and uh well i mean are you gonna have 14000 or $15,000 or whatever to buy the car if that's the buyout at the end of the lease? Probably not. I'm in baby step two right now. Yeah, if you're not ready to buy it out, if you're not ready to pay for it at the end of the lease, you're going to be turning it in. And you're going to be getting you a beater that you can pay for. Definitely. Yeah, so that means we have to get the bumper fixed.

Yeah, okay. I will do that then. Thank you. It's not an emergency, but we do need to put it in your budget. You could put it at the end of your debt snowball if you wanted to, because it's not really a debt, but it's something you've got to do before that September sneaks up on you. Because whatever the body shop tells you,

the dealer, when you turn it in, is probably going to double that. Right. Because you're above what the lease would call normal wear and tear. Basketball-sized dents don't fall under the heading of normal wear and tear. But, again, it's not an emergency. The good news is you can just kind of put it in your plan. We're going to drive the car through the end of the lease anyway and turn in the keys at that point.

Don't run your miles over. Don't be over on your wear and tear, which means that this thing has been fixed. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. I get calls and emails from people dealing with the recent loss of a spouse or a parent. You can hear the struggle and the heartache that they've been experiencing. And at a time they should be grieving, what breaks my heart the most is the strain and tension that they're going through because of money. Especially when it's a situation that could have been avoided. If you have a family, it is your responsibility to have term life insurance.

It's one of the things you do to say I love you. And yes, this is an ad for Zander Insurance. But since this is one of the most effective ways I have to get my point across, so be it. For over 20 years, I've been telling you about the importance of term life insurance and protecting your family. Listen, you need to check out zander.com or call 800-356-4282 i can't say it enough protect your family it's what you're supposed to do go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282 We'll be right back. Bob is with us in New York. Hey, Bob, welcome to The Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. So this is my situation.

I have five children, two in college, two in Catholic high school. I make about $200,000. I set my income pretty much about $160 about 160 to make the best access of the American Opportunity Credit. All the bills are paid. The house is paid off. I have about 1.2 million in retirement accounts, but I am cash poor. I prepaid all the Catholic high school already, but I have now twins coming up into, in about three years, going to college. One of my goals has been to pay for all my children's college. They get them out of college without any loans. So far, we're good.

We got two and a half done, and the third one just about done. She's just entering sophomore year next year. Awesome. The problem is I can easily see projecting if, based on what of my first three going through, I'm going to need more money, and I don't want to cut back on the savings. Especially with twins. I don't want to lose the educational credits that I get off of the taxes. And second, my wife is a teacher, and as a teacher, she gets a guaranteed 7% return on the money that she puts into her TRS.

And I don't want to cut back on that. That's like a goal to me. So I'm looking ahead, and I'm saying, but I still want to get them through college and not have any loans. So I'm looking at a home equity line of credit and just tapping that for the three years for what I can't save. I would never borrow on a home equity line of credit in order to invest in retirement. And effectively, that's what you're doing. Even though the years that I get guaranteed 7%. See, that's the thing. I would never borrow on a home equity loan to invest in retirement.

And effectively, that's what you're doing. I got all your numbers. I heard them. And you're a planner. You're a thinker. You're obviously not a dumb guy. Dumb people don't make $200,000 a year. So you're going to run your plan. But don't make 200 grand a year so you're

gonna you're gonna run your plan but you call the guy who doesn't borrow money for anything and you have the money you just don't want to turn back the faucet on your retirement in order to pay for the kids college it's not going to kill you. You're already a millionaire. You're already making $200,000. This is just a mathematical game is all it is. It's just a game for you. There's no question of if your family is going to be taken care of here. No, not at all. You've done a great job. I don't like leaving money on the table.

You've done a great job. Touchdown. You're not leaving money on the table. You're taking on risk that you're not perceiving when you go back into debt. You finally got everything paid off, man. And now you're going to go borrow on your house in order to put money in retirement. Not a chance. I wouldn't do it.

I don't want that feeling in my stomach when I lay down and put my head on the pillow at night that you don't have right now. 100% of the foreclosures occur on a home with a mortgage. I mean, risk is there. It's not much, and I get that you're seeing the spread, you know, 7% over your mortgage entry, over your home equity loan rate, which is a variable rate, and it could tick up on you, which if it ever did, you could turn around and knock it back out. But I just think you're going to take a little bit of a mathematical hit here

for peace if I'm in your shoes. I'm not going to be mad at you if you don't do it. You do whatever you want to do. Because you've killed it, man. Way to go. You're a millionaire. Did you inherit any of this million dollars um about 200 000 okay are you a millionaire because of that no i was a millionaire my aunt recently died uh but i was a millionaire before she died

where'd that money go towards other kids college yeah okay i paid off the house, and the extra cash that I got out of that, I'm prepaying their Catholic high school because I don't want to show that on the FAFSA. Yeah, I got you. Because what are you getting out of the FAFSA? What are you getting, a discount at your school? Right now, my daughter gets about $26,000 a year for her scholarship. I just was afraid they might take some of that away. It's all based on AGI. Okay.

Yeah, and that's why I'm setting my AGI at $160,000, because then that's what I'm worried about, because I'll lose the $5,000 worth of credit if I don't put the money towards the retirement you know is that and i and i like i'm that's part of the math too and you know it's a real part of it so i don't know uh i don't i don't know what they gauge it on um in your state and what you're dealing with do you have the actual tables that they use no okay do you know where i could get them uh no are they Are they not public? I don't know.

Honestly, I don't know. Why don't you call the admissions office of the college and ask them? Because information might give you the power to make the decision. If it didn't affect it at all, that might affect your decision, right? Yes. Okay. So I'd want to know that. And, you know, if it does affect it and that's of great concern to you, then you can just drop it all right there on the spreadsheet and run numbers out and go, OK, here's what I am paying in order to, you know, not have a mortgage.

Or here's what if I take out a mortgage, here's what I'm not saying. Here's what I'm actually saving in hard cash adjusted for risk, which you probably will never actually see. So, you know, you've done a great job, man. This is more of a – it's a monopoly game. You know, it's just a – it's almost a discussion that you have on the back porch with a cup of coffee over a couple friends, you know, and you're just having fun running some numbers out. I like doing this kind of stuff, math riddles. But this is not going to make the decision as to whether or not your family's

okay. It's not going to make the decision as to whether your kids go to school or not. It's a couple points one way or the other. And for a couple points, no chance, I'm telling you, to go into debt. Even if you lost money on the equation, the equation is for fun. Because, again, it doesn't affect you long term here and so um but i had no chance i got my head on the pillow no mortgage no chance i'm gonna put a mortgage back on this house i just couldn't do it it made me throw up i couldn't do it oh hey man thanks for listening i appreciate talking to you open phones at 888-825-5225.

Emily is on Twitter at Dave Ramsey. There's about a million of you there. By the way, Instagram has exploded. I'm up to about a million three on Instagram. Thanks for hanging out with us there, guys. It's kind of crazy over there. It's a different world. Instagram's not nearly as mean as Twitter.

Twitter's just hateful, which I kind of like, actually. But Instagram's just like nice people, mostly. I block a couple over there, but I block like 10,000 on Twitter. It's awesome. So, you know, you don't understand social media. Yeah, I do. If you wouldn't say it to my face without getting punched, then you shouldn't be able

to say it on digital media and continue to follow me if you think i'm a blankety blank blank blank blank blank then what's the point you're following me block you know i can fix that for you it's not hard anyway so emily says she's not a she's not a troll she says when you're so far in debt, do you stop your tithes to pay your debt? I don't get legalistic about tithing. I'm a Christian. I believe in tithing. I teach tithing. I tithed all the way into bankruptcy court and all the way out, which is a guarantee, by the way, that it is not God's promise that you will never fall on your face and go broke while tithing.

I've heard people preach that, and I'm a walking testimony that that's not true. One little gray-haired church lady said, well, you just don't have enough faith. I'm like, maybe all I got left is faith. They took everything else. So I had to start over, remember? So when it comes to tithing, your heavenly father is crazy about you. He loves you. And his love letter says, hey, kid, the best way to live your life is give before you do anything else.

But if you don't do it, I'm still your heavenly father, and I'm still crazy about you. But it's the best way to live your life. So I don't do it legalistically. I do it as a saying, it's probably some stuff that I'm not going to understand this side of heaven and some of it's called faith and I'm just going to go do it. And so I tithed all the way into bankruptcy court and all the way out, but not because I was afraid God was going to strike me dead or not prosper me or any of that garbage. I'm not a performance-based Christian.

I believe in grace. Lots of it. I need it. So you've got it too, Emily. Lots of grace to you, darling. Lots of grace. I would tithe, but with lots of grace. This is the Dave Ramsey Show.

Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer and phone screener for the Dave Ramsey Show. If you would like to do your debt-free scream live on the show, make sure you visit DaveRamsey.com slash show and register. We would love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story.