The Ramsey Show - App - Throw Dynamite at a Mathematical Log Jam (Hour 3)

Episode Date: August 30, 2019

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live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. This is your show. Thank you for joining us. It's all about you. It's a free call, and some say the advice is worth what you pay for it. The phone number is

888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Well, Dave Ramsey doesn't give very sophisticated advice. You know what? That's true. I don't. I teach

you to do really, really really really easy to understand but profound life-changing things to do like live on less than you make no one does it those that do become wealthy those that do are in a position to be generous. Those that do avoid debt. Those that don't are a victim of society. It's all stacked against the little man. He can't get ahead. Right? Live on less than you make.

Get out of debt, because if you don't have payments, you have money. The problem is not that most of you don't earn a decent living. Most of you give it to other people. Because you couldn't resist buying crap that you didn't have the money for. You buy stuff that you don't really need, with money you don't have, to impress people that you don't even really like, and you give them all your money. Thus, their building in the skyline and the furniture in their executive offices

is way nicer than your double-wide. You gave them all your money. You work your fingers to the bone and all you got is bony fingers. Remember the old song? No, some of you aren't that old. Okay. Anyway. That's the deal.

Live on less than you make. out of debt always be giving money away be a good tipper even when the server isn't good you don't really say anything about the other people when you don't leave a tip. You say more about yourself. Well, I don't think they earned it. See what I mean? There you go. You're just an angry, backward person. And you're all worried about whether some little girl bringing your hamburger did a good job.

And you don't even work while you're at work, so shut up. You say, take it easy, and you mean it. And then you don't leave somebody a tip. I'd be ashamed. And the worst ones are my fellow Christians. Servers don't even want to work on Sundays because Christians are notoriously cheap. They don't leave a tip. And don't blame it on Dave Ramsey because day ramsey never told you not to tip

ever you ought to give you ought to find somebody that's having a bad day and hand them 20 bucks 100 bucks a thousand bucks you'd have to have the money to be able to do that so you'd have to be doing the other thing which is like living on a budget a written plan no one gets to their destination if they don't know what the destination is. Most people with their money do ready, fire, aim. The proper way to do it would be ready, aim, fire. If you're going to go to Florida, you can make up your route from wherever you are along the way, or you could just go ahead and map out where Florida is

and start heading in the proper direction. You'd have to, however, know where Florida is. Otherwise, you wouldn't be getting there. You'd have to go by proven principles, like which way is north and which way is south. I don't like absolute truth. I get it, but you're just stupid. Because there is absolute truth. That way's north, that way's south.

And it's independent of your little pointed head. There are things that are the absolute truth. One plus one equals two, and you can't get creative about that. Florida is that way. Canada is the other way. And if you don't like that, you're just what's known as wrong. That's all. It's pretty simple, y'all. So you got to have a plan.

You're going to get where you're going only if you know where you're going and you take the steps to get there. That's a budget. Live on less than you make. Live on a budget. Don't get into debt. Be generous. See,. That's a budget. Live on less than you make. Live on a budget. Don't get into debt. Be generous. See, this stuff's not hard.

Oh, by the way, then you could save, couldn't you? If you saved $100 a month in a decent growth stock mutual fund from age 25 to age 65, you'd have $1,176,000. I don't like your interest rate assumptions. Okay. So change them. That's not the point stupid the point is you won't have any money if you don't save some money it's a basic concept you want money in your

savings account you want to retire with dignity it's not an accident no one gets to millionaire status at age 65 and they look down there's 1.2.2 or $2.2 million in their 401ks and go, how'd that happen? Where'd that come from? No one is shocked. They know exactly how they did it. It was over the last 25 or 30 years. They put a little bit of every paycheck automatically drafted out of their paycheck

in their 401k, took the company match. They did a Roth 401k or a Roth IRA with a SmartVestor Pro, and they did it over a long period of time, and this is how you win. This is how you win. So, yeah, the stuff we teach is really basic. Here's the problem. Some of the most profound, life-changing things you will ever learn in your life are very easy to understand.

Love your neighbor as yourself yeah but he's a jerk I know but love your neighbor as yourself I know but he's a Republican he's a Democrat he's a Methodist whatever Whatever. You can always find someone. Love your neighbor. It's easy to understand. It's just hard to do it because some people are just not very lovable. If you don't believe me, just get on Twitter.

I think that's where all the hateful people live now. It's sad. It's easy to understand. Love your neighbors yourself. Live on less than you make. Always be generous with money. Always be saving money. Stay out of debt.

Always have a plan. These are easy to understand. The problem is they're hard to do. It's a very profound thing to decide to take control of your life instead of letting other people and let circumstances dictate to you how you live. You can control the variables. You can't control all of them, but you can even put yourself in such a position that big, hairy, dramatic things are not so big and hairy and dramatic. I wrecked my car last night because I'm stupid. I turned in front of a woman.

It was my fault. That's a variable I can't control because I was stupid. You know what I can control? I turned in front of a woman. It was my fault. That's a variable I can't control because I was stupid. You know what I can control? I have the money to buy the insurance and I did and it fixes my car and her car and she wasn't hurt and I wasn't hurt. Everybody's going to be okay because

I controlled the variables I could control even though I apparently don't know how to drive. So there you go. I've been in a car wreck for years, decades. Stupid. But you know what? Those are variables you can't control. I actually could control that variable.

My wife told me about it on the way home. But anyway, there you go. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. One question I get asked all the time is, do I need life insurance? Listen, the whole point of life insurance is to replace your income for someone who counts on you. So if you have a spouse or you have kids, yes, you need term life insurance. It's the only way to protect them until you're out of debt and have built up your wealth. You're only digging a deeper hole if you waste money on cash value plans since it robs you of the ability to make real progress.

And that's why I send you to Zander Insurance, and I have for 20 years. That's where I get all my insurance, and they only offer the plans I recommend. It is not expensive. It's not complicated. And Zander will be there as your guide every step of the way. Visit Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. You need to get this taken care of. I can give you the advice, and I can tell you where to go,

but it's really up to you to take that important step to get your family protected. That's zander.com or 800-356-4282. Thanks for joining us, America. We're glad you're here. Anthony's in New York City. Hi, Anthony. How are you? Good. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up? Okay. I have one question relating to two issues here. I have two credit cards that are in a charge-off stage. I was paying as much as I can because we're currently in Baby Step 2. What do I do now that it's been

processed into a charge-off? Doesn't matter. You still got to pay them. What I'm saying is we can't afford the minimum payment, so we've been giving them as much as we can from the bottom line. Okay. So they're not going to get anything now.

If they didn't want that, they don't get anything until you get some other things paid off and can get yourself squared around. Sounds like you got a lot of debt. Pretty much, yeah. We got about $55,000 in debt, and those two cards alone were about $14,000. But I got sick for a while, and I couldn't afford the minimum payments, and it started adding up, and I can only give them $50 each a month. Do I stop doing that and just pay off the other ones first?

Yeah, that's fine. Either way, you're still going to have to get to all of it. And what's your household income? Well, this year, you know, we got a little raise, so it's about, I would say about $75,000. Okay. And is it only because you got behind that you can't pay them? Because you should have room in this budget. $55,000 is $75,000 income.

We finished financial peace in April, and we've been paying off small debts here and there, and then we fell behind on those. We could afford the minimum payments on the ones that we're currently paying off, but we couldn't afford the bigger, higher cards. So they fell way behind. You're doing your written budget or your every-dollar budget? Written budget. currently paying off, but we couldn't afford those bigger, higher parts. So it makes a lot of time. You're doing your written budget or your every dollar budget? Written budget.

Okay. All right. Because, again, $55,000 worth of debt with a $75,000 income, unless you've got some kind of really huge payment on one of the other ones, you should have had room to have paid the payment, except for those months you were sick. I mean, but, you know, the regular monthly payment should be doable and more to work your way towards this debt.

So I'm kind of worried about what's in your budget now and what could be cut out of your budget or, you know, but either way, if you just put a hold on these, if they've charged them off and you don't pay them for a while while you knock out a few other things, that's an okay way to get at it. It's not okay to say, I'm just going to ignore it forever because that's not going to work. You do need to pay it. But, you know, to get the cash flowing and get the log jam and the math broken loose, maybe this will do it.

Candace is with us in Dallas. Hi, Candice. How are you? Hi, Dave. I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Okay. So I have five credit cards, some with lower balances, some with higher balances. The ones with the higher balance, around $13,000, has a higher APR. What I want to do is apply the minimum payment of about $386 a month that I pay on the higher balance with the higher APR towards the lower balance, lower APR cards first, so then I can snowball that money into the higher ones once I get rid of the lower ones. But I want to know if that's a good idea. I'm not looking to purchase anything major in the next couple years. I have a house. Cards are paid off. But but we have three kids and we are trying to put two in daycare at once and I just don't have the

monthly income to do so. What's your household income? Our household income is roughly $109,000. And how much debt do you have not counting your house? Not counting my house. My husband has a student loan of roughly $100,000. Good Lord. Yeah. And then our credit cards total to about $31,000. Okay. All right.

You're not doing a written budget? I do do my written budget every month. There's enough money here to pay these bills. $109,000 income. You can pay that student loan payment, and you can pay $31,000 worth of credit card debt. It's doable. There's room in this budget. I don't know what you're spending your money on.

So I am able to pay it. Yeah. I'm only paying the minimum on all the cards right now. That's what you need to do first. Okay. First thing you do is you pay all your minimums, and then after that, you make a list of your debts, smallest to largest. While you're paying minimums on everything, you pay all the extra you can on your smallest debt.

APR does not enter into this discussion. Okay. Good. But you should get this debt reduced really, really fast. And so I was thinking, but the other problem is we're looking to put our, we have to put our youngest into daycare because the child care provider we have now can no longer keep her. So we don't have any money to free up to put her in child care.

And that's part of the problem. Because right now it's free. How much is your house payment? Our house payments are $2,000. Oh. Yeah. You've got a house you can't afford. Okay.

So I recently, a lot of that was with my escrow account with my homeowner's insurance, which I just recently changed. So that won't come into effect until the spring because they've already paid it out in full and I changed it, like, I guess a little too late pretty much. So I won't see the benefit of that until next year. Yeah. because they've already paid it out in full and I changed it, like, I guess a little too late pretty much. So I won't see the benefit of that until next year. Yeah. Okay. Here's the thing. You have to get yourself in a position where your income versus your outgo leaves your room to clear up $130,000 worth of debt.

You have to. You cannot just say, oh, I have a daycare problem. Oh, I have a business problem. Oh, I have that problem. You just can't do that. You're not at the mercy of this math. This math is at the mercy of you. And so if you cannot cut lifestyle and cut things out of your budget enough to be able to attack this ridiculous amount of debt you all have, then

you're probably going to have to sell your house because you have a very high house payment. Okay. Your house payment's more than a fourth of your take-home pay. Yeah, and a lot of that is our property taxes. Yeah, yeah. And so that's what's squeezing you. You've got to get the income up or the out go down somewhere. Okay. Because you've got to find some margin up or the out go down somewhere. Okay.

Because you've got to find some margin in here. Otherwise, we're just treading water. Right. And that's just a rat in a wheel. And mathematically, you don't want to just run, run, run, run, run, run, run, have a heart attack and die. I mean, that's no life to be a rat in a wheel. So we've got, again, it's kind of the mathematical logjam,

these last two callers, that you've got to do something radical. So, hey, thanks for the call. We appreciate you joining us. Let's push pause just a second and talk that through. Because sometimes you do face that. You've squeezed and squeezed and squeezed and squeezed and squeezed, and still there's no ability to throw chunks of money at the debt to make the debt leave. Then you have a pretty desperate situation.

The last two callers are facing that, both of them. And so desperate situations require desperate measures. Extreme situations require extreme adjustment. Now, in the old days, my great-grandfather, David L. Ramsey I, he owned a lumber operation in the hills of Kentucky, and they would go in and cut trees, and the way they got the trees to market was they'd put them in the river, and they'd push them down the river.

Big, big logs going down the river. When you get to a turn with all these logs in the river, they jam, and they won't make the turn. It's a congestion like on the interstate in Houston, you know, and you get jammed up. And the way they got rid of the log jam, that's where the word log jam came from, or the phrase log jam, the way they got rid of the log jam that's where the word log jam came from or the phrase log jam the way you got rid of that is they threw dynamite in the middle of it and it blasted those trees up in the air and threw them out onto the banks and everything else and it blew them forward and blew them backward and it got it created movement they lost some of their production they

lost some of the logs in the process but they were able to get the thing flowing again, and the log jam was broken loose. And that's what you've got to do when you're in one of these mathematical log jams. You have to throw dynamite in the middle of it. And so that means you might take a job working 80 hours a week. It means you might sell your house. It means you might sell one of the kids. Oh, I'm kidding.

But the dog, the dog could be gone for sure. kids oh i'm kidding but the dog the dog could be gone for sure you know i know i'm kidding the cat oh definitely the cat i mean but you know something's got to happen here right sometimes somebody's got to get radical if you're in a radical situation the radical solution is the only thing that will do and that's what you're facing and it's tough it's very hard to do and both those guys are facing it these last two calls but you know it's something you just blow something up and that's what i'm reaching for with some of my answers in those situations Thank you. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, Rusty and Laura are with us. Hey, guys, how are you?

Hey, we're doing good. Welcome, welcome. Where do you guys live? Salt Lake City, Utah. Wow. And all the way to Nashville to do a debt-free scream. Yes, sir. Fun stuff.

Well, welcome. How much debt have you guys paid off? We've paid off about $500,000. $500,000? Yep. Okay. There's a story here. How long did this take?

So it took about nine years and nine months. And the first three years we spent paying off our unsecured debt, and the next seven years paying off our house. So you are house and everything out of debt. We are. Way to go. How old are you two? So I am 35.

I'm 33. I'm looking at weird people. I love it. And what was your range of income during that nine years and nine months? So we started out about $55,000. And then over the last nine, ten years, we've got over $400,000 now. Oh, my goodness.

What do you guys do for a living? I'm a VP of sales for a mid-market division for a software company in Salt Lake. We're the great team. And my wife stays at home and takes care of the kids. Okay. Much harder job. I hear you.

Absolutely. Very cool. Well, you've got a great income. What's your house worth? About $700,000. Okay. Way to go, you guys. Yeah.

How fun. Ding, ding. So what started all this 10 years ago? Well, actually, it all started, Dave, because of some mistakes that I had made. So I was a pretty ambitious individual when I was 21 years old. I thought I could build a lot of wealth. I thought I could generate a great business. At the time, this was 2006.

Oh, good timing. Oh, great. I'll do it in real wealth. I thought I could generate a great business. At the time, this was 2006. Oh, good timing. Oh, great. I'll do it in real estate. Oh, yeah. There you go. So I started talking to a lot of broke people who were giving me advice around how to use other people's money in order to invest and build wealth. I didn't have a credit score, so I went about the business of playing kissy face with the

bank, as you would say. Right. And I started borrowing money and building up my credit score so I could borrow money. I never got to a point where I could buy a property. But I did figure out a way through personal loans to get about $80,000 to invest with some local neighborhood investor guys. And I actually ended up losing it. Oh, my gosh.

In about three weeks. Whoa. Whoa. Just like that. Just like that. Were you all married at the time we were just after so we we had six months married in just as he's doing all this stuff that's great i love it i'm a sales guy dave

i love it well done so then what happened so what happened was I had just taken this sweet woman to be my wife. And I had woken up six months into my marriage with $115,000 in unsecured debt, 22 years old. I know nothing about money and how things work. And I feel like I'd screwed up our life. I feel like I had set us up for failure, and I had to fix it. And I didn't really have to convince Laura to help. I was raised, you know, live within your means, and I also had wonderful grandparents. One set of grandparents, they actually paid for 20 of their grandkids, two-thirds of their tuition. So I felt like I wanted to do that.

And my other grandparents, when I was little, I remember asking my grandpa what he did for a living, and he said, I collect interest. And he retired when he was 55. And he taught me about stocks as a little girl. He opened up the newspaper, showed me the S&P 500. When I was in college, he told me that him and my grandma, they've been paying cash for their cars. So I felt like when I grew up, I wanted to pay cash for my cars. I wanted to help my grandkids if I needed to.

So it wasn't a hard sell for me. That's what I wanted to be when I grew up. Yeah, we're going to clean this mess up so we can do the other stuff. Exactly. There we go. So then what happened? So what I started to do at that point was my wife was on board. She was telling me, you've got to fix this.

I started seeking out people who actually had money. I found people that were real millionaires. I started listening to your show. I started learning from you and from those who have actually generated true wealth. And what it came down to is I had to pay off the debt, save and invest, build wealth. So we started the journey with you, Dave. So for 10 years, we followed your plan to the T. We went through, we were broke. I mean, we had figured out on our budget, we'd figured out how to eat really cheaply by emulating third world countries' main staple meals.

So I'd figured out how to eat for 50 cents a meal, which was great. But we went to the library for entertainment, and I'd snuggle up to the wall to be able to do my internet with my neighbor so that I could actually go through college. But we were intense. And then once we paid off our unsecured debt, we bought our home and then our now our forever home. And we just continued on that path. And we've gone from negative six figures in net worth to positive seven figures net worth as of January. And we, following your plan, became millionaires. And you're not even 35 years old. No. Wow. Well done.

Very well done. Who was your biggest cheerleader? Definitely my wife. And I would say that my mentor, Perry, Perry Gigi, was a fantastic cheerleader for me. My boss, Bill Robinson, real smart Southern guy, just like you. They helped mentor me. Girl. Very good. Good for you for you guys man you have done

very well very proud of y'all how's it feel oh it's awesome when you first pay off that debt it feels great and i recommend it to anyone to not have that i mean still you still have your payments you have to make and you're you know you're paying your water bill utilities but having to have payments and not have to have payments, it feels great. Yeah, it's completely different. There's something that turns loose in the spiritual world when you don't have any payments. It's very real. The borrower is slave to the lender.

Well done, you guys. Well done. And you brought the kiddos with you to do the Dead Free Scream. We brought the kids, yeah. What are their names and their ages? So we have Rush. He's nine. Noelle, she's seven. El kids, yep. What are their names and their ages? So we have Rush. He's nine. Noelle, she's seven.

Eliana, four. And we have George, who he is, turns two in just a couple days. All right. And he's super happy to be here. Hi, bud. We're here. Love it. Well, here we go.

So Rusty and Laura, Rush, Noelle, Eliana, and George from Salt Lake City, 500,000 paid off in nine years and nine months. Millionaires at $35,000. House and everything is paid for, and there are not even $35,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. All right. Three, two, one.

We're debt-free! We're debt-free! Well done, you guys. Well done. Love it, love it, love it. Thanks, guys. Man, we got a copy of Chris Hogan's book for you, Retire Inspired. I want that to be the next chapter in your story, that you become millionaires.

You're there. And that you continue to grow that wealth and of course be outrageously generous as you go along and the four kiddos there to feed in the process there you go open phones at 888-825-5225 our question of the day comes from blinds.com they have a one 100 satisfaction guarantee That means even if you mismeasure or you pick the wrong color, they will remake your window blinds for free. Site-wide savings happening right now, plus take an additional 5% off at blinds.com slash Ramsey.

Today's question is from Alex in Nebraska. Which is the better alternative, buying a starter home that you know you'll move out of at some point or renting until you have enough for your forever home? Alex, I got bad news. There are no forever homes. Ta-da! When you buy your dream home, you will find out your dreams change.

Your life changes. You add kids, you take away kids. They leave, you're empty nesters. Then you get a little older, and you might not want stairs. All of these different things happen throughout the scope of your life, and there is no such thing as a forever home. The average home sells every 5.6 years in America. And some of that is mobility, but some of that is just life changes.

We're upsizing. We're downsizing. We're upgrading. We're moving into a condo because we don't want to cut grass anymore. We're moving to a big yard for the kids. Oh, we're sick of the big yard. We want to move back and forth and all around. It's just part of life. So buy your starter home,

dude. And then when you get ready to move to the next thing, move to the next thing and get them paid for as quick as you can get it paid off. And obviously, if you can buy a home that will suffice for the next several years, that's a a good thing but there's nothing wrong with getting a starter home get your foot in the door on this

wonderful real estate market that we are experiencing now this is the Dave Ramsey Show Thank you. Thanks for joining us, America. Our scripture of the day, Matthew 5, 16, In the same way, let your light shine before others so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven. John Maxwell says, Leaders must be close enough to relate to others, but far enough ahead to motivate them.

Oh, that's good, John. John's a good friend and a great man. James is with us in Charleston, South Carolina. Wonderful town. Hey, James, how are you? I'm doing good, Dave. How are you doing? Better than I deserve.

What's up? Well, it's been an interesting few months. I learned I'm going to be a father come March next year. And I know, right? The first time, too. So going through the whole process of at least getting ready financially and all of that needed for when the kid comes. And in relation to that, so my in-laws, they've sent me a letter,

a promise of a very, very generous gift. They essentially want to buy for my wife and I a brand-new vehicle that is, in their mind at least, it's up to snuff for taking their grandkid around. It'll be their first grandkid, too, I'll mention. How sweet. That's nice. It is really nice. Where a little bit of the, I'll just say a little bit of tension comes in, is the fact that they've done very well with money their whole life. They're actually multimillionaires out RVing, living their dream right now.

And without knowing you, they pretty much followed all your baby steps and all that stuff, except with relation to what your belief is on how to, the proper way we'll say to buy vehicles if you're not a millionaire up to that point. They've always believed that the right way to do it is to buy a vehicle, brand new, outright, every time they would go for an oil change and they'd talk to the mechanic who is normally the one at the dealer, he would tell them all the extra little things that, you know, maybe worry them and they'd say, fix it right there. Basically, just keep the car as pristine.

So always putting reliability at the forefront and affordability, if you will, especially for where they were in life on the back end. And they're requiring of us when we get this new vehicle to follow those exact same specs. Total insurance, they want total compensation, the most expensive, details like that. So I'm just trying to get an idea whenever I see them, the best way to start a conversation of the fact that I'm generous,

but I don't fully agree with the terms that are being put on with this gift. Yeah, and I think you start with just a very – this is your parents, right? This is my wife's parents. Oh. Yeah. Well, your wife needs to lead as much of the conversation as is possible, because otherwise you're going to end up being the evil son in law. OK. And she needs to say how grateful that you guys are.

And you need to say how grateful we are. But and what I would do it is I would probably just use a little shock effect. And that would be, guys, thank you so much. This is an unbelievable offer. And you're so kind. And we're so glad you're so excited about the baby. We're excited that you're going to be grandparents. And we can't wait for you to spend time with a grandbaby.

And thank you so much. We're going to have to turn down the gift, though. We're not going to be able to accept it. I'm sorry. Thank you so much for offering it, though. We're not going to be able to accept it. I'm sorry. Thank you so much for offering it, though. You're so kind and you're generous. Well, why? Why won't you take it?

We just want to be a blessing. Well, we don't, you know, there's just too many strings attached to it, and I'm afraid we're going to disappoint you with the way we handle the car because we just don't do cars the way you all do cars, and, you know, it's okay. It was a really kind offer of you, though. And just take it off the table. And unless they come back around and just say, okay, no strings. Because a gift with strings is not a gift.

Does that make sense? That's true. I mean, it's a manipulation at that point. They don't mean to be. They think they're coaching you. They think they're giving you a good practice to put in place, but the request is unreasonable because it invades your life. And that's what you're saying.

You're saying, I have the right to make these decisions about my own car. And you're taking away my right to make those decisions. So it's a boundaries violation from a Henry Cloud perspective on the book Boundaries. But probably what I would do is just very kindly, real low-key, don't make a big deal about it. And just how great. You guys are so sweet. Thank you so much what a wonderful offer absolutely incredible you're going to be just great grandparents and we're

so excited for you to be the grandparents and we're excited about this baby but we're just going to have to turn down the gift i'm so sorry thank you though for the offer don't you know what the reaction is going to be that they're going to fall out of their freaking chair right that's what i'm hoping for yeah it's a shock effect and and i'm not and if they don't come back around that's fine don't take the gift because i'm with you i wouldn't take it under those circumstances but i want to do it in such a way that there's no rough edges in my turndown do you follow me yeah i understand it's not like you're invading my privacy you don't get to tell me how to handle a car i'm you know none of that kind of thing you don't have that going in your voice now so i don't think you would with them

but i really want your wife to handle as much of this conversation as she's able to handle because it's her parents and as as quiet as you can possibly be and sit there and smile and nod would be great and if you need to step in and just kind of put a bow on it at the end, that'd be fine, too. But I really want, because I'm telling you, man, she'll go a lot further than not. They'll accept it more from her. And then if they come in and go, well, we'll give it to you with no gifts. We just really think this is a good way to do it and say, you know, I understand why you're saying this. And I get why you guys did it. I just don't want to have that. I don't want to be in a

situation where I'm going to disappoint you because then if I don't handle the car just right, then you're going to be upset. And that's, I don't want to be in that position where I can sit, I'm set up to lose here and I don't want to lose. So, you know, if you can give it to us and not be looking at us like we're idiots the whole time we're driving it then that's fine but if you can't that's okay too everything's okay we're going along fine do you made this phone call everything's fine you know you know and that because it's not worth it you're gonna it's like having a car payment i mean you're gonna have people looking over your shoulder every time you turn the lug nut on a stupid thing, and it just takes the fun out of it.

Brandy's in New Orleans. Hi, Brandy. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, thank you so much for taking my call. Sure, what's up? So I'm recently married in January, which makes you suddenly realize you should think about more than where

you're going to order out from next. And so we started following you, and we're on baby step two. We're doing our debt snowball. We have two smaller loans with Salome, and then one larger one from my mother-in-law, who bought out a $60,000 amount of my spouse's student loan. So we're paying her back with interest. And the question is, we're set to be done with the two smaller loans in February. And so naturally our attention would turn to that $60,000 loan. But my mother-in-law recently retired and has sort of built in the anticipated interest of 4% per year. No, she doesn't have that option.

I'm not her retirement plan. I'll give her the money. She can invest the money. Okay. Tell her to take the money and go to a SmartVestor Pro and do a good investment that will make her more than 4%. Okay. I'm not her annuity that's not good for you it's not good for her all right and what about the idea that because this is what

my spouse's siblings have sort of said is that we're paying into into their insurances sort of in a weird sort of way uh but that's neither here nor there we'll deal with that when she dies got it meantime i don't need i don't need a payment, and I don't need a debt. Yeah, yeah. I mean, we should be able to pay it off in three years instead of 12, so that's sort of where I'm leaning. Or even faster. Yes.

As fast as possible. And just tell her to take the money as you give it to her and to reinvest it herself and handle her own investments. You guys don't want to be in the loan business we don't want her in the banking business bad for everybody involved the borrower slave to the lender it changes the way thanksgiving dinner tastes when you owe your mother-in-law 60 000 bucks that puts this hour of the dave ramsay show in the books our thanks to james childs and zacks bennett in the booth i am dave ramsay we'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace,

and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. This is James Childs, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. Did you know you can now listen to The Dave Ramsey Show on Pandora and Spotify? For all the ways to watch and listen, check out our show page at DaveRamsey.com slash show.