The Ramsey Show - App - Timeshares Suck Theme Hour (Hour 1)

Episode Date: March 14, 2022

Dave Ramsey & George Kamel discuss: The legalized fraud known as the Timeshare Industry and the work the Newton Group is doing to help timeshare owners. Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. It's a free call. This hour, we're going to be talking about one of my favorite things to hate, timeshares. If you have been ripped off by a timeshare company, if God help you, you went into the tiger cage and you were eaten by the tiger king, the tiger, the tiger king, whoever, whatever it was, however you got trapped,

and you want to tell your timeshare story, we want to hear from you. If you love your timeshare, you can call in. I know you're very rare out there. story, we want to hear from you. If you love your timeshare, you can call in. I know you're very rare out there. It's always handy to catch a unicorn on radio. So if you're out there and you love your timeshare, call in. The phone number is 888-825-5225. When I started this radio show 30 years ago, we set out to do the same thing we do today, and that was help you.

We want you to win. We want you to get out of debt, do today, and that was help you. We want you to win. We want you to get out of debt, become prosperous, be unreasonably generous, outrageously generous. We don't want you to get ripped off. And so anything that is ripping you off has become my enemy over the years. And the more it rips you off, the more vocal I am about it, and the more that industry hates me. I mean literally hates me.

And so, for instance, when I go off on payday lenders, which I do frequently because they're absolute scum, they take advantage of and oppress the poor, 800% interest. If you're a payday lender, your grandmother should be ashamed of you. Your mother should be ashamed of you. I'm ashamed of you. You should stop it. You're ripping people off. If you're a whole life agent, you should stop it. If you lease cars, you should stop it. If you sell timeshares, for God's sakes, go get a good job. Leave. So joining me for this hour for a couple of segments are some folks from a company called the Newton Group. Gordon Newton is with us. He's the president and founder of the Norton Group. Newton Group, He has been helping people with timeshares get out of timeshares since 2003. So about the last two decades, he's watched this scummy industry evolve.

And his head legal counsel with their private law firm, Michelle Cumberland, is with us as well to address this from a legal standpoint to make sure that Gordon and I stay in the road. Welcome, you two. Good to have you. Thanks for having us, Dave. Appreciate it. Thanks for fighting the fight on behalf of people who can't stand up to this billion-dollar industry. It's out of control.

Yeah, you know, people need help. They don't have to go it alone. And I tell people they're not alone either. You know, we just recently conducted a time-straight exit study of over 9,000 surveys and uh the results are pretty shocking yeah i mean we we actually did some research with ramsey research team here it wasn't as large a sample size as you did and we gathered up ours was not ours was more of a survey and yours was more of a study so yours has got better research technique to it and more in depth but i mean

the thing that you find 97 of timeshare owners surveyed said they experienced deceptive trade practices what industry stays open when 97 out of 100 people say they tried to screw me how does this work well you know i'll tell you it's uh this isn't a group uh survey these people take this take take the questions at home individually and you know what have been shocking had you know 50 of it came back and said you know what we experienced uh lies and unfair sales practices 50 would have been a lot 97 is really shocking and there is a problem there and it stems from how these things are sold. One of the attorneys that we talk to in the industry calls it legalized fraud. And that's his words, and I kind of like them.

And so, you know, but as we, you know, you go through the study and you understand how deceptive this is and then how stuck people are. By the way, if you guys want to see a copy of the study, just go to timesharetruth.com, and you can see the study of 9,000 actual timeshare owner experiences. In case you're having a weak moment, George Campbell, and you might want to go and visit a timeshare place in order to get a free vacation, don't go get in the tiger cage. Now, if you don't know what the tiger cage is, this is something I dreamed up.

I just made it up because it's a metaphor. But if you ever go in one of these pressure tactics things where they lock you in a room and won't let you out until you buy their timeshare in order to get free tickets to the water park, in order to get a free stay at their little half-butt hotel that they call a condo. And it's just nasty. And basically, it's like saying, going to the zoo, and the zookeeper says, the zoo manager says, if you will go in the tiger cage and sit with the tiger for one hour, we will give you free zoo passes for a year.

However, I need to warn you that the tiger's not been fed in a week and a half, and he likes people meat. He wants to eat you. And you say, oh, for free zoo tickets, I can manage the tiger, and you go sit with the tiger for an hour. Well, most people get eaten. That's what it amounts to. They come out of it, and, Michelle, by the time they get in your office

and they're talking to you about the legal aspects of this, you start to hear how bottled up and pressured they were. Oh, I do. And from a legal perspective, you know, the problem really starts from the very beginning with that legal binding contract. I'd like to invite those people that have a points membership with a timeshare

to go actually look at their contract. It'll say on there, I purchase, let's say, 15,000 points. But it doesn't tell you anything in the contract of what you're getting for those points. It doesn't say that you get a one-bedroom that you can go at this time of year or that you can have a rental car with your points.

Instead, what it says is you're buying 15,000 points. The terms of how you can use these points are in some external document. You agree to bind yourself to that external document. And, oh, by the way, we can amend it whenever we want to. And so we hear all the time clients coming in and say, I was told that I could use my points to pay my maintenance fees, or I could use my points to get a rental car. Or I could go any time of the year I wanted to go, or I could go to a different location or whatever.

Exactly. And all of that turns out to be a lie. Well, as soon as they call the resort and try to make those types of reservations and use their points in that manner, they're told, oh, our terms have changed. And oh, guess what? According to your contract, you're bound to whatever amendments they make. And that's why it's so difficult for attorneys like me to bring those claims of fraudulent inducement and misrepresentations, because what's the court going to say? Well, what's in the four corners of your document? What's in your contract? Does it say in your contract that you can use points for maintenance fees? Does it say, well, the sales agent told me I could do that.

Well, but it doesn't say it in your contract. So let me ask you something. I'm just curious. I mean, give me a 30-second answer because I just got curious from my old business law class that I took back when the dinosaurs roamed the earth. A contract that references something outside the contract that can be unilaterally changed how is something that can be unilaterally changed by the by one party in other words another party doesn't have to have give permission

how is that a binding contract so one of the things that we can do in the united states is we can contract just about anything right and so in your contract it actually says these are the documents that govern the terms of your agreement, and you agree and understand that we can amend these terms. So we get everything, including your money, and we decide what we're going to give you, and you're signing and you're agreeing to that. Exactly. Just to get out of the tiger's cage.

Absolutely. And it's completely binding in that regard. It is. And so it makes it very difficult for attorneys like myself when a client comes in and says, I was bold-faced lied to, and I want you to do something about it. But unfortunately, if it's not written in the contract, it's very difficult for us to bring those claims. It's a he said, she said argument. Yeah, and now we're arguing with a timeshare salesman who you can tell they were lying if their mouth was moving.

Oh my gosh. The Newton Group joins me as part of our Timeshare Suck theme hour. Gordon Newton, Michelle Cumberland, and we'll be answering your questions and taking your calls about timeshare. So go ahead and call in now, 888-825-5225. This is The Ramsey Show. are you trapped in a timeshare contract that's financially draining do you want out but you don't know where to start or what options you might have? You need the Consumer's Guide to TimeShare Exit. It's the first and only guide published by Newton Group, who has 16 years of experience in helping Timeshare owners discover safe and legal solutions. Getting out of a Timeshare contract is a serious challenge that requires real experts

who offer the right legal representation. The owners of Newton Group establish their own personal law firm who works alongside to find the best possible strategies for their clients. You get both the customer service and legal representation that you deserve. For more information, log on to timesharetruth.com. That's timesharetruth.com to get a copy of the Consumer's Guide to Timeshare Exit and to schedule a free consultation to learn more about your options. We're doing a timeshares suck theme hour. Just because I believe in clarity, so we want you to understand exactly what we're talking about here. Stay away from them, avoid them. If you haven't, then you need to try to exit, is what it's called in the timeshare world.

Exiting a timeshare is very difficult. Many of the companies have been run out of business by the timeshare business, by the billion-dollar timeshare industry, suing and suing and suing and suing and suing, and the legal fees just run them out of business. Even if they're successful exiting people. A company that's been around since 2003 is the Newton Group, and their website, if you want to read the study results, that they have 9,000 people that they studied that are actual timeshare owners

and their experiences, you can get it at timeshare truth.com timeshare truth.com. If you're stuck in a timeshare and you want out, they may be able to help you. They may not be able to help you. Some of these situations are different than other. They're all different than each other. And some of them are easier to convince the timeshare company to let you go. Let my people go. Or and some of them are dadgum near

impossible so no promises but check out what they do their business model and how they work with the law firm the partner law firm that's filed numerous lawsuits and arbitration demands on behalf of timeshare clients also at timeshare truth.com now so the industry uh gordon has in my mind i've watched hilton buy diamond and run mikey off uh mikey flaskey was the the head timeshare salesman there he and i got into it on twitter several times yeah guy's a scumburger and um i just don't want to be unclear today um but the um but that but you know hilton now is in the business big time. We were a little shocked they actually closed on that deal because they generally are a pretty good company. But they have really brought in a barrel of fishhooks there.

Then, you know, we've got the Queen of Versailles, David, what was his last name, David? Siegel. Siegel, yeah that that mess um and uh um that whole i mean these guys some of the things the the sophistication of it has evolved and the way that they sell it and even their legal documentation has evolved over the 20 years hasn't it yeah you know i mean just in the in the consumer's got alone you know and and you can see this too, Michelle referenced it earlier, you're not just agreeing to the terms that might be in that 15-page contract. They often reference other agreements. This is just an example taken from one public offering statement.

Again, this is in the consumer's guide. You can see it yourself but it literally says that weeks are offered for sale for personal use and enjoyment only and should not be purchased by any prospective purchaser for resale or as an investment opportunity or with any expectation of achieving rental income capital appreciation or any financial return or valuable benefit. So these things have no value, and we said it in the consumer guide. Well, that would be nice to know, right, when you went in, or even a part of that contract. But this is language that's taken from a public offering statement

that's 249 pages in length. Yeah, and the consumer's not going to read that when he's in the tiger cage. No. No, he just signs it. Just anything let me out of here. Right. So, Michelle, what is the times that you're able to be successful getting someone out, exiting them? What is the trade secret to tell how you do that or what is involved or who has a better chance of getting out or who doesn't?

What are the situations that you're the most, that you have the highest probability of being able to exit them? So from a legal perspective, it's always about that legal binding contract, right? What does that contract say? Does it have a default provision? Does it have a term? Once we identify what the rights and obligations are for the individual, then we may have some negotiating power with the resort. We may be able to say, or to the developer or the association, depending on, see, this is another thing people don't understand. You're not just dealing with just the timeshare entity.

You're also dealing with an owner's association. You're dealing with the holder of whoever, of the note who financed the loan. You could potentially be dealing with a management company that's running the resort. I mean, it's really this one consumer against five different entities sometimes. So it also depends on who we're negotiating with. If we're just negotiating with the owner's association, and it's a paid in full, that probably will be a little bit easier for us than if we're also dealing with a holder of a note, a debt collector and a management company. And so each individual situation, you know, it's based on their specific facts.

And so if they have debt against it, it's harder because you've got to get the debt forgiven. Right. So you really have to have them on fraud or the proposal that they have committed fraud in some way for them to release all of that. Either we have some tool that we can use from a negotiating perspective, or sometimes these resorts will allow a voluntary surrender, but of course there's usually some payment involved in that. You know, they want some

kind of money to take these things back in their inventory. But even once we get the individual out of the timeshare, it doesn't really stop there. I mean, we really need to get their credit report looked at. A lot of these timeshare lenders are incorrectly reporting to the credit bureau. Sometimes they're issuing tax documents, 1099s, 1098s. We need to take a look at those and make sure that they're properly reporting any canceled debt to the IRS. I mean, there is a lot involved. But if there's no canceled debt if i paid ten thousand dollars cash or twenty thousand dollars cash for a timeshare and i want to get out of it just to get rid of the fees you give up the money that you spent that's just gone yeah i never typically am never able to get money back without some type of um like we were just successful in an arbitration and getting a full

refund but it was because i could actually prove fraud we actually had the handwritten notes of the uh individual's uh sales agent so i was actually able to prove fraud but that's very unusual and very rare yeah that agent got fired i'm sure he did sir yeah so um you know it really depends on uh the individual situation what evidence i have and whether i have somebody on the other side of the table that's willing to negotiate with me. Tom Scherr, owners have to say in their own words, a large number of documents were placed in front of us. We were not allowed to take the paperwork back to our room to review it further about making a decision. Additionally, we were not allowed to consult anyone other than the resort representative

at the sales meeting regarding the contents of the document. They're trapped in the tiger cage. That's a standard deal. In this world today, consumers are so aware. I am shocked that these kinds of practices are still effective, but they are very effective. Well, they are, and again, because, you know, you will spend anywhere between two to six hours with that individual, right? Because you can't get away from them. Well, you know, they're friendly folk, too, you know. I i mean you're there talking with them all day and by the end of it

you know a lot of our consumers have told us that they were just worn down and they were willing to sign just just to get out of there um you know these these are uh you know that statement you just read that's from a uh uh that that person is willing to testify under oath under penalty of perjury uh that's from a declaration we've got hundreds of declarations from these people as well too telling us their timeshare truth this isn't me telling you this this is the voice of the american timeshare owner that's what you're hearing that's we're hearing through the study and that's we're here to help the message that we want to get to you from the Newton Group and from the Ramsey Organization before these two step off the set here is,

A, don't buy a timeshare, period. There are no circumstances, none, but which just economically comes out to your benefit. You are signing up for God only knows what, and you're probably not going to get it, and you're going to get stuck, and you're probably not going to get it and you're going to get stuck and you're legally bound and you're signing ridiculous documents that are one-sided and you're getting screwed so just avoid the entire industry like the plague number two if

you are stuck in a timeshare there are no magic pills there is no easy way out but sometimes if you have the handwritten notes of the agent that committed fraud uh that one was a rare one i would love to have been in the room when that happened but uh but if you've got stuff like that or if you've got a way that you can do that sometimes they can real people like the newton group can really help you the timeshare exit business is shrinking. Again, a lot of the players have been driven out of business. A lot of the attorneys that have done this for a living have been sued to the point they have been run out of business.

Newton Group is standing, has been since 2003. Visit their website if you need some help with this, or if you just want to read the exit study results, timesharetruth.com. Timesharetruth.com. Thanks for dropping by, you two. Thanks for having us. This is The Ramsey Show. you've got a lot on your plate a job your home your marriage and your growing family while you're enjoying the present you can't help but think about your future and your finances. As you explore your options, consider Christian

Healthcare Ministries, or CHM, for your health care. Their generous maternity program and budget friendly monthly programs have been a blessing to members welcoming children into their families. Visit chministries.org slash budget to see if it's right for you. Christian Healthcare Ministries is a Ramsey Tr, is my co-host today. He's also the host of The Fine Print on Ramsey Networks, our latest podcast series, first season in the books, where you read The Fine Print, you don't get into trouble. Which means that the next season of The Fine Print will definitely have a timeshare or six episodes. I was just going to say it might take a whole season just to get through it all. My gosh.

There's so much. There's so much fine print problems. And the lack of fine print, too. If you have a timeshare story, a timeshare nightmare story, or maybe you just love your timeshare, that's okay. We'll talk to you, too. We might make fun of you to your face. We'll do it in good nature just because we love you but um we help people that make mistakes all the time here

it's the phone number is 888-825-5225 that's 888-825-5225 now george has dove in and in the last five minutes done in-depth research on the values that timeshares hold. Yeah, here's what I did. You do have five minutes worth of research. It took me two seconds. I went to eBay, went to completed and sold listings, and I found many, many timeshares that sold for $1. $1, Bob. $1, Bob.

And so if that doesn't tell you it's a bad investment, I don't know what does. I paid $10,000. I sold it for $1. This is how I got rich. Not an investing guru. I bought it for $25,000, and I never got to stay there. For a sense of ownership. And I got, but I just knew that I just knew if I signed these documents that they would

at least let me leave. So instead of falling for the pitch, just go to eBay. If you want one that badly, just go to eBay and pay a dollar. There you go. Yeah. There's a money hack for you today. So I wonder if you could, what if we could figure out a way to get the emails

or the text numbers of the people that are in the tiger cage while they're in there with the salesperson that goes, bing! Oh.

You can buy this for a dollar. I should stand outside and pitch it to them. Yeah. It's an even better pitch. Get a little sign. Get a little sign. You can do one of those

spin signs, George. Yes. One dollar. One dollar timeshare. Get can do one of those spin signs, George. Yes. $1. $1 timeshare. Get your $1 timeshares here, folks. Goodness. Your career is just going down the tubes here. You know that. I'm not surprised.

I had a good run. Oh, timeshare exit stories or timeshare problems here at 888-825-5225. Brown says, the high-pressure sales tactics used to convince us to buy more points were exhausting and mind-numbing. It seemed to us that the process was designed to wear us down, so we would give in just to get out of the presentation. Wow. Also known as the tiger cage. That's one strategy. Yeah.

Just sign everything. Just, I want to go home! I promise I'll never come back. I'll never use the timeshare. I just want to give you money. Let me go. Oh, my God. How bad does the situation have to be?

Mike is in Sacramento. Tell us your timeshare story, Mike. Hey, guys. Great to be here. Appreciate it. Sure. What's up? So, guys. Great to be here. Appreciate it. Sure. What's up? So, yeah, I never bought a timeshare, but my future bride bought a timeshare before

I met her. So I like to tease her about that. So long story. Be careful. Be careful. She may remain future a long time. You keep this up. I know.

I know. You got to tread carefully. But so she was, to give you the backstory, she was 22 years old at the time. She went into the lion's cage and the tiger cage, and she ended up buying a timeshare for about $17,000. At the time, I think it was Trend West, which now is Worldmark or Wyndham or whoever it is. So five years, fast forward five years later is when we met. And I had a lot of experience with timeshares because my dad had gone to these presentations. He was a pastor.

He had five kids, and he loved Disney World. So he would always go to these presentations to get free tickets to Disney World. But he was a rock star in the sense that he never, ever bought one of these things. So I kind of had a front row seat to see how these companies operated. And everything that you hear on these things is absolutely true with the tactics and everything. So I heard she had a timeshare, big red flag. I'm like, oh man, we got to look at this. So I'm the finance guy of the family. So I sat down and did the math. So basically, they had financed everything. She didn't have any money. She's a first-year teacher, so she's making maybe $27,000, $28,000 a year.

16% interest on the loan for the $17,000, right? So it's like a high-interest credit card, and they had to do a down payment. She didn't have any money for the down payment. Oh, it's no problem. We can finance that part, too. So basically, when you do the math on this, so five years in, she had $17,000. If you finance a down payment payment is it a down payment exactly right exactly so hers her point system allowed her about four nights a year more or less

and she never really used it because her system you had to be you can't book it more than 30 days out so the people that had the higher systems could book first and then that left nothing for her. Right. So, but assuming that she was able to use four nights, so four nights a year for five years of 20 nights, right. She spent 16 K. So that works out to 800, $800 a night, right. Is the average of what this thing actually costs when you factor in the maintenance fees and the payment and the interest. So I immediately went into full blow. I'm about to make you throw up, right? This makes me sick. So I try to get rid of this thing. And as we all know, just like you guys said a second ago, you can't give these things away. I put it on eBay. I put it on Craigslist. I tried to give it away to some

friends. And that's the thing though, Dave, like I couldn't, they're not friends anymore. I couldn't get it in good conscience i couldn't give it away because i'm giving away this crappy product like you i couldn't do it so so they always tout these things as like the stress-free vacations right when you own these timeshares so we paid it off we put it on our death snowball i'm like well we can't get rid of it we're just going to pay off the balance right we paid it off as quickly as we could so now we own the thing and we would use it every once in a while, but they call it the stress-free, like it's a vacation. You own it. You're like a kind of a big shot, right? They use

all these words and they're selling this to you. But every time you go to check into one of these places, it's the opposite of stress-free. It is the most stressful experience that I've ever had because you check in, you get your key, everybody's super nice. And in most hotels, that would be the end of it, right? You go to a room and you go on your vacation. But in this place, you'd have to get your key. And then they say, oh, wait a minute, you can't leave yet. You have to go talk to the goober across the hall who's got your parking pass, right? So you bring your luggage across the hall. Back into the tiger cage. Back into the tiger cage.

And this guy's your best friend, right? Oh, where are you guys from? What are you going to do here? Oh, you guys aren't going to believe this. We have a free breakfast. So you guys qualify for it. So why don't you just come to the free breakfast? Did you bring friends with you?

Oh, you did. Perfect. Your friends can come to the free breakfast. Did I mention it was free? They'd say free, free, free. Right. All these free words. Oh, you don't want to go?

Okay. Well, I got free tickets for you for whatever you want to do. Oh, that's not good enough? How about we give you $150? And so the first time you do it, you're like, oh, okay. It's an owner update, right? That's how they tout it. It's an owner update.

Oh, boy. It's an owner update upgrade. Update upgrade. We're going to tell you. Exactly. They say we're going to tell you how to best use your vacation. And, of course, as we all know, you go in there and all it is is a high-pressure sales tactic. Well, that's what I want someone to do is tell me how to best use my vacation. Wow.

George, I should tell you how to best use your vacation. You'd do a good job. Whitney would like that. She would like me telling you how to best use your vacation. You're a good salesman, Dave. We might fall for it. I'm not that good. Well, the best one was when we didn't go.

One of the guys, this was like the final straw. One of the guys told my wife, I couldn't go to these. I couldn't even talk to the parking pass guy anymore because I would get so upset, right? So I would wait in the car. That was the stress-free part of your vacation, yeah, when you got upset and let her in the car. But he told my wife that she was being an irresponsible timeshare owner by not going to the owner update, right? And she, like, threw down the papers and walked away. And I saw her do this. You know what?

I'm an irresponsible HOA member because I refuse to go to the meetings and watch the drama on those things. That's no vacation. Oh, boy. It's awful. Unbelievable unbelievable there's some silver lining though so you're still on years later on it well no so i'm one of the few i'm one of the rare rare few so we owned it for 20 years so she bought me she's 22 we're 42 now it ended up being i did the math on this too the total time using using it, it cost us $429 a night if you average it all out, right?

Which is still- Not counting the time you took to calculate this. Exactly. You're worth more than that, Mike. Yeah. So, oh man. So, but the silver lining, and again, I'm one of the few, there was some, it was buried in their website somewhere

where they had an exit, they had a way out i'm like oh whatever i'll try to do it and truth be told to give them credit they did let me out after 20 years it wasn't after 20 years i let you out of prison after 20 years of them i'm just saying we got all we're gonna get out of this guy after 20 years so he did his time in the prison i did my time i did my time your honor on probation my time oh this is the ramsey show An 81-year-old man claims in court that Diamond Resorts International, a timeshare club, defrauded him of $50,000 and keeps trying to get more. Lewis Wolfe claims Diamond Resorts International Club and six affiliates used high-pressure sales tactics to open credit cards in his name, run up bills on them before plaintiff even realized the cards existed, and charge him more than $50,000 for membership services in Diamond Resort entities. Wolf sued Diamond Resorts on March 8th in Superior Court. He claims the abusive sales pitches on the phone and in person could last for four to five hours.

And despite the sales pitches, despite the $50,000 they already took from him, he says it continued to harass him diamond international sends buses to seniors communities to take them to nevada and once they get a name they will be non-stop with the phone calls you can't stop them yikes this is unbelievable and they're preying on these folks busing them from the nursing homes or you're preying on people who can't who them from the nursing homes? Well, you're preying on people who will fold to the pressure. Yeah. I mean, that guy talked about his dad being a pastor, and he went in there and made a game out of it and got out of there.

I just don't. You know, one of the things, I don't put myself in places where I have to be a butt to leave. You know? Yeah. Not intentionally. I mean, I have been there a time or two, but I don't i don't i just i'm not intentionally i mean i have been there a time or two but i don't say i'm going to go into this confrontational thing on purpose to get

something for free just to it's not worth it to me it's the it's um i mean i don't mind conflict when it's useful and takes you somewhere i do conflict for a living. I'm a talk radio host. Come on. So, but this idea that I just think you're asking for it when you walk in there. And so, here's the thing. You can go anywhere in the world and stay for $800 a night. Yeah. And choose. And when you walk up and you're paying $800 a night, let me tell you what they do. Anything you want.

I've stayed at $800 a night let me tell you what they do anything you want i've stayed at 800 night places a time or two and they treat you well without any upsells and sales pitches and there's nothing you know but sharon and i and you know my i just uh so we're playing golf in cabo we come off the golf course and this guy walks up to me he goes hey senor how you doing hey man how you doing boys so we're talking and he goes, Hey, you want to play? You want to play for free? And I said, Well, we just finished. Thank you, though.

I appreciate it. And he said, Well, I can refund your green fees. And I went, You can. That'd be cool. Why are we doing that? He goes, I just need to sit down and talk to you for a few minutes. I went, Oh, you could smell my wife my ever cheap wonderful frugal wife says honey we should hear he what he has to say i said honey you just if you play with snakes you will be bitten if you go into the tiger

cage you will get eaten i just played golf i'm in cabo life is good why do i want to screw up this wonderful day for the for the cost of the round of golf if i didn't have the money to play there i shouldn't have been playing there hello so oh my gosh sharon would have done it for free just to hang out sharon would have done it to get two nickels yeah but that's the and then she gets in the tiger i see how these people do it because she was she was ready to sign me up to sit and listen to boy child it's not happening it's just not happening sweet little guy but i'm not listening to him no i got i want to go eat a taco i'm not no thank you no thank you four hours you could have actually worked and just made the money up i mean that's

just insane it's not worth it oh now wait a minute now now you've gone to medley i shouldn't be encouraging people to work for money you're right but we do have we promised we would air it oh she hung up. Did we lose them? Just as I was getting ready to go to the good timeshare call, Nancy from Oregon. She had a good experience. She said she'd had a good experience, but I guess she didn't figure we were actually going to air it. We were.

Well, I told you if you had a good experience or a bad experience, we would air your call. I think Kelly scared her off. Kelly. It's Kelly's fault. It has to be Kelly's fault. Everything is Kelly's fault. Open phone. It's part's fault. It has to be Kelly's fault. Everything is Kelly's fault. Open phone. It's part of her job description.

888-825-5225. If you have a timeshare experience, when Karen Henderson of Orlando realized the points she'd purchased from Wyndham resembled a never-ending contract, you think? She felt that enlisting in its buyback program would ensure she wasn't stuck paying the increasing maintenance fees and that her daughter wouldn't inherit a money pit. But soon enough, her owner update meetings, there it is again, began to transition from buy more and better vacations to how to offset your mortgage. And she started dealing with lengthy sit-downs with multiple salespeople who she says pushed her hard to invest in the points, which we heard from Gordon Newton a while ago in the actual buyer's documentation, the disclaimer that no one reads. It's as thick as a Bible that says,

this is all the ways they're going to screw you. Read this. And no one reads it's as thick as a bible that says this is all the ways they're going to screw you read this and no one reads it of course um that you know who reads that stuff i'm no i'm not reading that but it says in there the points have actual no monetary value and um we have just screwed you and here's a here's documentation stating that we just screwed you and so we want you but we want to be real clear that this is all legal when we screwed you and so um it has no no economic value it doesn't so here's the thing but do the math like that caller a while ago from la add up what you're spending per night and go is that an 800 room is that a 753 room and i think you'll answer the question and go nope that's rhetorical the answer is always no nope i stayed at a place the other day and it was

supposed to be nicer than it was and it was just a hotel i mean it's a nice hotel expensive but uh it's still i looked at it and i went nope that room's not worth that and you know what that mean you know what that means i'm not going back there next year because it's not worth that i looked at the dollar and i looked at the room and i went nope those two things don't match so last time i'm doing this right and you can choose next time and next and you know what i'm not under contract to go back there next year and the year after and the year after. And they're not going to raise my fees. And they're not going to reference some extraneous contract that they've changed the rules on again to add to my deal here.

Oh, Nancy's back. Good. We found her. Okay, good. We want to get to Nancy because Nancy's got a good timeshare experience. We should end on a positive note. Nancy, tell us about your good timeshare experience. Yes, Dave. Love your show. Thank you. end on a positive note nancy tell us tell us about your good timeshare experience yes dave

love your show thank you well we've been pleased with ours for 15 years i admit some of the things you've said are very true but it's a kind of a buyer beware thing but when we're all in and settled which is usually pretty simple like like checking into a hotel. We find it consistently clean, love the kitchen, love the space, versus staying in a motel room. So it's kind of a condo situation? Yes, it is. Where is it?

And we can use it numerous places. We've probably been to 50 locations. 55-0? Uh-huh. Pretty close. Wow. You use it a lot. 40 to 50. We've gone 75 times, I would say, in the 15 years.

Wow. We use it consistently. Uh-huh. Consistency, consistently, and feel like we're, you know, it does go down to our daughter, which may not work so well. I don't know if she'll be so thrilled. But it's certainly better than having a vacation home that sits empty and that you have to maintain. We found the maintenance wonderful. It is cheaper than that.

That's true. So since I've trashed all these other companies, what's the company so we can at least announce a company that someone's pleased with? It's Wyndham. Oh, it was Wyndham. Okay, because I've already trashed them. Good. Okay. Then there's one Wyndham customer that is happy.

Nancy, thank you so much for calling in. Thank you for that positive note. Yes, a good note to end on. I got a call out. She said it's better than a motel. So that's the bar, apparently. It's cleaner than a good note. I got a call out. She said it's better than a motel. So that's the bar, apparently. It's cleaner than a motel. Well, it's because she got a kitchen, and you can go in and make coffee,

and it's like a little kitchenette or a little condo or whatever. But, I mean, obviously she's done well with it. So, you know, hats off to her. And hats off to Wyndham. You made Nancy in Portland, Oregon happy. Well done. Well done. So 97% dissatisfaction according to the study done by the Newton Group.

So we found one of the 3%. That's amazing. But we can find anyone with this show. This show has unbelievable reach. I mean, 22 million people, we got reach. We can get the 3%. We can find you if you're in the 3%. Nancy, thank you.

All kidding aside, I appreciate you calling in and telling the truth. And we told you we would air both, and we did. So our rule of thumb as consumer advocates watching out for your money, stay away from timeshares. Real simple. If you need some help or you want to read that study, go to timesharetruth.com, timesharetruth.com. Check out the Newton Group, and they'll give you the lineup on the deal. It's that simple. This is The Ramsey Show.

Hey, it's John Deloney, co-host of The Ramsey Show. Did you know over 18 million people listen to The Ramsey Show every week? A lot of those people listen on one of our 600-plus radio stations across the country. To find a station near you, go to RamseySolutions.com slash show.