The Ramsey Show - App - To Build Wealth You Must First Change Your Behavior (Hour 3)

Episode Date: February 16, 2024

Девочка-пай Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Ramsey personality, George Campbell, joined by my colleague, Dr. John Deloney. The phone number to call is 888-825-5225. You call up, we'll talk about your life and your money. Angie kicks us off in Salt Lake City. Angie, what's going on? Hey, guys. Thank you for having me on the show. I really am just in a place where I just really don't know what to do. Just a little bit of back history. My deadbeat ex spent more than a decade psychologically abusing my kids and I

to the point that he alienated two of my children from me. Additionally, he refused to pay child support and his portion of children's medical expenses for that 10 plus years. Yet he's building himself a 4,000 square foot home. He travels to other States to game with other gamers and he pays the best attorney in the state to repeatedly file unprovoked lawsuits against me. Yeah. It feels,

that feels gross to say it all out loud. Doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's heavy. I'm so sorry. Yeah, he intentionally keeps assets out of his name so I have no way to collect. His parents have enabled him by paying for everything. I've already spent large sums of money in the court system trying to

get justice, and many failures happened. I'm at a point now when my judgments need to be renewed, and I need to go to trial to get additional judgments against him for more children's medical expenses and unpaid child support. I have already spent significant money in court costs and have suffered significant emotional damage from the loss of my relationships with the two children. So the last thing I want to do is spend more money on this problem. And I have trauma that prevents me from wanting to go back to court to get the judgment. So making decisions has been really difficult when there's no good answers. So I have two questions, or my question is twofold. How do I heal from the loss of a child that feels like a death but they're still alive?

And should I spend more money on this problem by hiring an attorney to go get the new judgment and renew the previous judgment? Or should I try to represent myself to save the money? Or should I just walk away? Let's do the money part first, and then we'll talk about your kids at the end. How old are your kids now? One is 18, the other is 17, and the other 16. Okay. And the reason I ask is if you're coming and you've got

an 18-year-old, a 17-year-old, and you're looking for back unpaid child support back when they were 10, 11, 12, that's going to be a long haul, right? That's going to be forensic accounting. That's going to be going through. It's just going to be a long, expensive process. Do I hate that for you? Yes. Go ahead. So they are already certified to go to trial. I'm at the point where they have been certified, and I just have to make the decision to spend the north of $10,000 to go to trial to get them judgment. Where are you at financially right now? Yeah, do you have $10,000 to go to trial to get him judgment. Where are you at financially right now? Do you have $10,000? I do.

What's $10,000 going to get you? What's it going to get you? It's going to get me the knowledge that I didn't enable him to just get out of it. That's not worth $10,000 to me.

If I don't go get it, like he gets, it's like he gets away with it, you know? That's not, he's gotten away with it. And I'm part of it. That $10,000 isn't worth it to me. If you're going to get $10,000 so that you can recover $50,000 in medical expenses that he didn't pay, I'm all in. I'm all in. But what you're looking for, you're going to spend $10,000 on this elusive thing called justice. And for you, justice means

he pays what he should have paid. And it also means that you feel a certain way. I remember testifying in a court trial where somebody went to jail for a long time. And it was the scariest thing I've ever done in my life. Just getting sworn in. And when the person went to jail, I remember having a sick feeling in my stomach, even though it was right. And I remember calling a friend of mine and she's a forensic psychologist, what she does. And I said, why do I feel so just bad? And she said, because even when somebody wins in something like this, nobody wins. These kids still lost their mom. They still lost their dad. Their dad's still a scumbag. It's still been 10 years of kids being used as weapons during for a man's image. You see

what I'm saying? Like nobody's going to win. And so I know it's like, I'm going to clench my fist. I'm going to get this thing called justice. And dude, I'm all about justice. To the end of time, I'm about it. But if you end up doing $10,000 just so he didn't quote unquote get away with it, I'm telling you, it's going to be a hollow victory on the other side of that. If you got $10,000 and that was an investment in getting the money that you needed to pay your bills because this man owes you that money. The court said he owed you that money. Then honey,

I'll be with you all the way. Yeah. I think the difficulty too is knowing like collection. I haven't collected on the past ones. So it just, it feels like, uh, like a meaningless effort.

Well, if, if you can walk into court and say, Hey, uh, there was a judgment against him and for the last 12 years he hasn't paid a penny, then heck yeah, go get your money. Don't let that scumbag skate on what his responsibilities were. But if it's just, I want to spend $10,000. So he gets what's coming to him. The, as you've said, and I'm just going off your words, the chances of him getting what's coming, because of the way he spends money and the way he hires attorneys, that chance is very small. Yeah. And the worst part is, that still won't undo the fact that he's destroyed the relationship that you had with these two kids.

Yeah, tell me about that. Well, yeah. So he, you know, it started off right after the divorce that he would, you know, say things like, oh, you know, the reason we're not together as a family is because mommy won't forgive daddy. Well, what he forgot to tell them is that daddy abused me and the kids physically and psychologically. Yeah.

So it wasn't about, you know, that, but he would tell them like... Did those kids talk to you anymore? Um, I recently, the court finally, um, gave me the ability to communicate with them and they felt forced to communicate with me. Okay. So I get like... So here's what I want you... Basically nothing. Here's what I want you to do.

I want you to, you're, you're putting an investment in a 20 year game. You, you want to be close and have a deep relationship with them when they're 35 and they've been poisoned during some really formative years. So what are you going to do? I want you to write them a letter every week for the next 10 years

so that they have a shoebox full of proof that mom never gave up on us. And one day they're going to sit down and say, what happened? And then you can not badmouth them. That man sucked. It's the truth. That man hurt me bad. Right? And that's a totally different story. I want you to sit down with your attorney that you have right now. And I want you to lay this out and say, I need you to help me best spend my money. What's the right thing to do? And if you

don't have an attorney, I want you to reach out to a local law school and ask one of their clinics if they'll take your case for a reduced or free rate. Law school clinics are amazing places to start. This is The Ramsey Show. If you're enjoying it, please share it. That's the one thing we ask of you. The show is free and sharing it is free. Hitting the like button, also free. and leave a review. Hit the follow button. All of that helps us and helps us reach more people, helps the algorithm love us, and that's the key. We just want to spread this message to more people and give them hope in a world that is chaotic and noisy. Appreciate you guys doing that. We've got a fun event coming up May 10th and 11th

with the entire gang. All the Ramsey personalities, including John and I and Dave, Rachel, Ken, Jade. We're going to be speaking at our Total Money Makeover weekend. It's a brand new event, May 10th and 11th, right here in Nashville, up the hill from the Ramsey Solutions headquarters at our new event center. And in just one weekend, you're going to get the crash course on everything we teach about money with brand new content. Of course, we're going to get the crash course on everything we teach about money with brand new content. Of course, we're going to be talking about budgeting and beating debt, investing, but we're going to go even deeper than we have before. There's going to be live Q&A throughout the weekend, so bring your questions. And this event's going to be fun.

We've got some fun things planned, some fun surprises. And early bird tickets start at just $99 for a limited time. So if you want to join us, get your tickets now. The event center seats about 2,400, so this thing will sell out. Get your tickets now, ramseysolutions.com slash events. All right, let's go to the phones. Paul joins us in Phoenix up next. Paul, what's going on?

Hey, how you doing? Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. Okay, my father got COVID about two and a half years ago. Went in the hospital, came out of the hospital about 98 pounds. Came home and I had nurses here and finally figured out that it was hospice and they told me they were palliative care. So I told them to get out of my house and my father's up well because

the bus stopped by one day and asked me if I was junior and I said yes and they handed me a bottle of liquid morphine and liquid lorazepam and I read on the on this inslip of the morphine it says hey do not give this with any benzodiazepines.

It may cause death or shallow breathing. So I took that advice and told them to get out of my house. And my father, he's up to 150 now. He walks, he goes to the bathroom by himself, and I still got my dad. Um, so, and it's, you know, the doses that they wanted me to give him were phenomenal. I mean, it was, it was unbelievable how much they wanted me to give him of this stuff. Um, I did all the research and it said, you know, this is to make him comfortable, uh, for death. And, um, I wasn't going to let him kill my dad. So I, uh, it's a, it's a great turn. I mean, it's a,

you don't really hear success stories from these, these deals from COVID. And, uh, I definitely, I believe, I totally believe that it was, uh, was that, uh, but, uh, I'm glad he's doing okay. How can we help man? Um, yeah, he's doing great. Um, uh, it's kind of hard to follow that call that you had right before because, wow, I'm praying for her anyways. My, my, my problem is, uh, okay. So there's, he's, he's got a couple of, um, I had to give up pretty much everything and

to take care of him so I'm just full time well I'm just full time everything actually are you working right now no I can't there's no way I could it's escaping me off the top of my mind, and I hate that it is,

but there's a program where the government will pay you to take care of a family member. Are you a part of that? Yeah, no. I went, well, yeah, I checked it out, did the research on it. Basically, what it would do, and I just did this, you know, not a week ago. I didn't know about it, but they would pay you for three or four days a week for, I think it's $13 to $14 an hour. And it just seemed like they were... What are you making now? You're making zero.

Right. And that's correct. I just did this, so I still have a... I can go ahead and do it. It just felt like it was so much money that the government was taking because it's not them that does it.

It's these third-party companies. So basically, it's like a, so get to your question, man. How can we help you brother? Question is, okay, there's, he's got a couple of bank accounts. I'm, and I don't, um, I'm trying to figure out some way I can add to it. Not, you know, not just watch it kind of dissipate. How much is in there? There's one that's got about $250. There's one that's got about $150. Yeah.

I mean, the only way to get money, dude, is to go get a job. Is your dad at a place now where he's out of the woods? You said he's doing great and he's gained weight and he can he can get around on his own to where you can start going to get a job no no no no no i mean correct he walks with a stroller uh or um a walker i'm sorry um he walks with a walker um he still has the clpd and some after effects of the covid um so no he can't i mean what i say is getting around. He can get around, but not, I mean,

get around to like take his dog to the backyard. Okay. But is the plan to just drain this 400 grand to sustain both of your lives? No, that's why I'm calling you guys. Because no, that's not what I want to do. I recently, uh, bought a, we bought a house in, in a suburb, um, of where we were. Um, and now I just, um,

can you afford the house? Yes. Well, this is how I did it. Um, I did it and then, uh, I paid cash. Um, and the money that I get from the old house will replenish the money that we paid for this, and maybe $10,000 or $20,000 on top of that. That will be profit. So you're living in the new house now with him? Yes, yes, sir. And you still have the old house? Yes, and three other rentals.

Okay. Are these cash flowing? Who's managing these? I am. I have been for the last five or six years. Okay. Is your name on the deeds of these? No, I'm the beneficiary. He's got a living will. Okay. Is it to the point where you need a durable power of attorney for him to take care of his financial matters? Well, I already do take care of everything. But if your name is not on these accounts.

Do you legally do that? That's right. Your name's got to be on the accounts. Have you all gone down to the bank together and put your name on the checking accounts and put your name on the retirement accounts, put your name on the house deeds? Yeah, everything's on. My put your name on the house deeds? Um, yeah, everything's on,

my name is on, um, all the house deeds. Um, the, um, I have the same name as him. So sometimes, uh, like, um, the checks that I have to send out, you know, I can just send out and there's no problem. All right. Well, the solution to your problem, unfortunately, is a mess that millions of people find themselves in, which is I need to be a caretaker, but I've also got to get income. And so I don't see a path out of just taking that $400,000 and dwindling it down to zero over time without you finding a way to bring more money in. And that could be figuring out a work from home situation. That could be you being a part of that government program that you clearly don't want to be a part of a government program. Dude, I'm with you. I totally get it.

Yeah. Okay. And as a taxpayer who wants a smaller government, I don't mind part of my tax dollars going to people who are taking care of their family members with special needs. One of my best friends on planet earth has a very similar situation and he is incapacitated and thank God his family can take care of him. So I'm all for that. Um, but you can't just sit at home. Do what? That's where, that's where he was. He was incapacitated, um, when I got him home from the hospital

sure but here's the thing at the end of the day there's not a magic wand over this you're going to have to figure out a way to go earn some money and there's just not another path and so you have to be able to say okay I've believed that this can't happen and this can't happen and this can't happen

I want you to revisit all of those cannot happens. Could he stay by himself for six hours a day? Could he stay by himself for three hours a day? Be very specific. And then, bro, you got to go to work. And you've been going to work for the last few years taking care of him. That's noble and that's good. You got to get some jobs. You got to go figure that part out. Otherwise, the money is going to be part out otherwise the money's gonna be gone it's just gonna be gone welcome back to the ramsey show i'm george camel joined by dr john deloney open phones at 888-825-5225 tony's up next in tucson a Arizona. Tony, what's going on? Hi, how are you?

Thank you for taking my call. Absolutely. Well, here with a bit of a dilemma on what should I do. I've been listening for a while and haven't really heard a similar situation, or maybe I've missed it. My dilemma is that I recently hit the 59 and a half. I have about in debt about 90,000, 45 in an equity loan. And I have two mortgages, my primary and a rental. And from money, I have about 1.5 in 401k and about 45 to 50 in bonds. And so my dilemma is that over the last year or so, I've been trying to hit it as hard as I can and as fast as I can to pay some of the debt.

But I've only done about 25, so I'm remaining about 90. So I've done around 25,000, 30,000 already that I've been able to pay, but I still haven't. How long did that take? It took me about a year and a half. What's your income? Between my wife and I, we're about 140. Okay. Why did it take a year and a half to pay down 25 if you're making 140? Probably just

not paying it as aggressively as I should, I'm assuming. Yeah. Well, I mean, you have enough money in retirement and you could pay off this debt today, but my bigger worry is that you don't change your behavior and your lifestyle. And so you might be back in the situation and you're not spending less than you make. Well, that's hopefully what I'm pushing for because I'm hoping that once I see that there's no debt there, being very aggressive and not creating any more of that debt. Well, you don't have to hope if you just decide, hey, we're done with debt. We've played with debt our whole adult life. It's led us here. We could have had $5 million. Instead, we got $1.5 million, and we still have debt laying around.

If you get serious now, you're going to be debt-free and keep on stacking that money for the next few years as you continue working. Do you guys plan on continuing to work up until your mid-60s? That's the plan, yes. Yes. Okay. So what's left on the primary mortgage? The left on the primary is $125,000 and about $80,000 on the rental. Oh, so that's all. You said there was $45,000 in an equity loan? You said there was $90,000 left

of consumer debt? Well, $90,000 includes $45,000 of the equity loan and then the rest credit card and then the two mortgages. Goodness gracious. So part of my dilemma was reaching the 59 and a half and saying, okay, now I think I can take money out because of the tax implications out of 401k before and paying all penalties and all that. But now I'm kind of over that one, and that's been my dilemma. Do I just keep pushing hard to pay down and push harder? Well, let's play this out. Let's say you dipped into your $1.5 million and your bonds,

and you paid off all debt, the equity loan, the credit cards, the primary mortgage, the rental, that would cost you about 300 grand out of 1.5, correct? Correct. So you're down to 1.2. And if you left that money alone, based on math and the history of the stock market, your money would double every seven years if you got a 10% return average over that time span. So you'd have 2.4 million at 67 years old. That's a pretty good deal, right? I could live with that. Okay. And that's if you guys continue to work and you continue to invest. So that would be my plan, but my bigger worry, again, is that you go back into debt because you go, we cleaned up some debt, let's go get some more.

You know what I mean? I don't want to do that. So this is like, you're like leapfrogging thanks to this wonderful retirement account, which you've done a great job investing in. But my bigger worry is your consumer behavior hasn't changed. So I don't, you need to draw a line in the sand before you guys pay this all off and say,

we are done with debt. We're taking debt off the table. No more. And, and, and would it be okay that like, let's say that I just did everything except the primary and then just work on the primary mortgage? I mean, would that be okay? Yeah, I would attack it aggressively. Just paying it all off. You can do it in any order and as fast or as slow as you want to.

You like debt. I just think freeing up your payments would really help you guys build wealth for these last few years as you do catch-up contributions and retirement accounts and all of this stuff. Yeah, you like debt. Why do you like it so much? I don't know. I guess it just kind of worked its way in.

No, you made a bunch of choices. You don't like saying no, do you? Yeah, that's true. What did you use the equity loan for? To fix up the home that we're in, the primary home. Do you have an emergency fund? I think I have about $6,000 in cash. You're the brokest millionaire that I know.

Like you're a straight-up broke millionaire. You have all this money. You guys make so much money. You live. So you're America. Congratulations. You have an amazing family, an amazing income, and you just spend insanely.

Yeah, that's kind of what it looks like here's george said i'll say it a little bit more direct than george because he's nicer than me that's true you're gonna have to act like an adult for the rest of your life or you're gonna have saved up a couple of million bucks you're gonna pay this debt off and you're all gonna be broke because then you're gonna be like well we need a bigger house and let's keep this one as a rental and let's get a this and then let's do a slap it up flip it and reverse it and who let the dogs out you're gonna have so many other new stupid loans like you don't have to be a grown-up and just say hey we got our house this is our home this is where we're going to live we're going to keep working we're going to be millionaires come what may we're going to have some money to

take care of ourselves so we don't have to borrow money from our kids or they're not going to have to come to our rescue. And we're going to go out a couple of times a week and we're going to live good lives. But the days of us just being reckless children with our money is over. Yeah. Now, just a bit of a twist. Would it be best if I took the money out of 401k and pay at least everything except the primary? Or sell the rental and use the equity to pay everything except the primary? What's this rental cash flowing? $1,500 a month. And that's with the mortgage payment still on it?

Yes. Is that your net profit? No, no, no. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It's $600 a month. That's your net profit right now? Yes. Like what? Is that your net profit? No, no, no. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It's $600 a month. That's your net profit right now? Yes. And that will increase to what if you pay off the rental today? It would be $1,500. Wow.

That's pretty sweet. Yeah, pay that off. That $600 gives me GAS, man. How much would you have to save up for a broken air conditioner or a roof or a new sink because your tenant busted? Like, dude, you got to. You guys have a lot of risk in your life. Yeah, I do. You can undo this.

But again, you've got to change your behavior. And so your new mantra needs to be, do we have the money right now? And that's a very hard thing to change at 59 and a half. Because if you answered that correctly you guys would be zero dollars in debt if hey the repair we can't do that right now we need to save up good news we make 140 grand bad news we only have 6 000 saved because we've been squandering it every month so this is a big life change to make tony and i you're calling which tells me you're at least partially ready for it. Yeah, yeah.

I've been ready to pull the trigger, but I've just been having such a great dilemma as to which way to do it. Well, right now you need to do things in order, which is no investing until the debt's paid off and until you have a six-month emergency fund. Okay. And you can, again, leapfrog all of that and go, all right, I'm paying off all the debt today. All the mortgages are gone. Now we've freed up all these payments. This thing's cash flowing amazingly. We freed up the mortgage. Now we can use that to invest and max out retirement accounts and pay for everything in cash.

And that's what I would do in your shoes if you can draw that line in the sand. And I'm not sure you're quite there. I also think you're going to have to take your wife out to dinner. You and your wife are going to have to do this together. Yeah, is your wife on board with all this? My wife. Well, she's a little bit less on board than I am, let me tell you. Well, she's not calling in stressed about this, which tells me you've got some selling to do. Yeah, but I think sitting down at the table over dinner and saying,

hey, as a family, Tony from Tucson, the family, we don't borrow money anymore. This is over. We're free. We finally cut the chains. We're family, we don't borrow money anymore. It's over. We're free. We finally cut the chains. We're done. We don't borrow money anymore. I want to be free in my last 20 or 30 years. This is The Ramsey Show.

Our scripture of the day, Matthew 10, 14. If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet. Jordan Peterson said, You are not obligated to associate with people who are making your life worse. Hmm. A lot of wisdom there. That's not what James Child tells me when he books us together, Jordan.

Oh, wow. My feelings would be hurt if I had any left, John. That's right. You make my life better, George. You make my dreams better, George. You make my dreams come true. Now you got weird. The great Hall and Oates said that. Now you got weird.

It's a bonus quote for you guys. All right, let's go to the phones. Dana joins us up next in Allentown, Pennsylvania. Dana, what's going on? Hi. So my husband actually just finished your book. Yes. He absolutely loved it. he married a great man actually yeah oh absolutely um so he's actually gonna he started reading um john deloney's book for anxiety now so he's like all invested in that but my question is um so my husband and i have

been going back and forth we do talk very freely. Um, so that's not a concern at all, but we're trying to pay off my car by the end full-time jobs and we bought a house in 2020 and we've been remodeling our entire house basically with like all cash flow. We have taken out no loans or anything for that. But I guess like our biggest thing is just trying to figure out how to pay off by the end of this year while still trying to live like a youthful life because we've been putting that kind of on hold to try and get like our house and all of that kind of situated first. So what total debt do you have left? Is it just the car or is there more? So it's just my, it's just the car and our mortgage. We have no other credit card debt or any other debt whatsoever.

No student loans, any of that. How would you articulate for me what a youthful life is? What is that? Well, so we got married in 2020, and we just kind of put our life on hold a little bit. We didn't really do much. You bought a house, and you're remodeling the entire thing. How is that putting our life on hold a little bit we didn't really do much you bought a house and you're remodeling the entire thing how is that putting your life on hold well we never like got to go on our honeymoon or like go on we haven't gone on a vacation just the two of us since 2018 you can't afford one because we y'all have car payments i mean we make a decent income. But you're broke.

What do you guys make? So collectively, we make $125,000 a year. Wonderful. What's left on the car loan? So I have $20,000 on my car loan. I just got it last year. I don't see why you guys can't pay off this car loan this year and go on a vacation. Easy, easy, easy.

What am I missing? Okay. Is your mortgage, like, ginormous? No, it's like $1,400 a month. Okay. So where is all the other money going other than this home remodel project? So we have about $32,000 in investing and then $32,000 in a savings. What do you mean investing?

Like in Roth IRAs and I have a 401k through work. Okay. So non-retirement, what do you guys have that you could liquidate or sell? So probably about like $32,000. That's your in savings right now? Yeah. Why not pay off the car today? Yeah. You still have 12 left over and then add a little more. I'm really stressed about that. Why? Because I grew up in a home where like there were no savings and that really like stresses me out to think that like it could be so low. Why do you think you're any better off owing $20,000 to a lender?

That would stress me out. Here's what you're doing. You're purchasing this safety and making somebody else wealthy. You're buying insurance on your fear and the insurance is your car note while you have the cash to pay it off. It's an illusion.

Do you get what I'm saying? What's your car note while you have the cash to pay it off. It's an illusion. Do you get what I'm saying? What's your car payment? It is $450 a month. Okay, so play it out. You pay off this car today. You have $12,000 in savings, and you add that $450 to whatever else you were throwing, and you restock the savings account within a few months.

Now you guys are completely debt-free from consumer debt. You you have a fully funded emergency fund now we can save up and go on the vacation and invest 15 of our incomes you can go on a rad vacation okay if your plan worked you'd be on vacation by now and we're just showing you a different way that you could snap your fingers and be debt freefree and still have money left over. Yeah, dude, your annual plan, your annual goal to pay off your car could be today. The bigger problem is you need to figure out where all this money's going. You guys get to get on an every dollar budget and go, we make $125,000. How do we not able to save up a thousand or 2000 bucks a month? So another thing is that we pretty much pay for a lot of our healthcare out of pocket because we, I don't have a job where I get my healthcare through there. So I pay for it out

of pocket, which is very significant every month. Um, and my husband is diabetic. So we, you know, put a decent amount every year into like at least 10 to 15,000 probably into healthcare every year. Do y'all run that through an HSA? A health savings account? Do you have a high deductible healthcare plan that has an HSA attached to it? A health savings account? No, we don't have a health-deductible health care plan that has an HSA attached to it, a health savings account? No, we don't have a health savings account. We both have like a $2,000 deductible. Okay. Well, long-term, it may be best for you guys to have an employer that subsidizes the health care if you want to alleviate that.

Yeah. Because you can go from paying $10,000 or $15,000 to a few hundred a month. What does he make with his family? So he makes, so I mostly make like most of the money. That's what I thought. So he works, yeah. I've never heard someone say I work for my family, they pay me $100,000. It's like I make $13 an hour as a grown man working for my family. Yeah, so he makes like probably close to like $19 an hour as a grown man working for my family. Yeah, so he makes, like, probably close to, like, $19 an hour.

Okay. Would he make more if he was out there in the private marketplace doing the same thing? I feel like the carpentry world isn't the best for, like, a lot of income, though. Oh, boy. Well, I must run into a different kind of carpentry worker because they make more than 19 an hour my son busted our uh handrail on our stairs and the carpenter came over and he basically was like i can get this done but i'm gonna have to have one of your children yeah they do well they do real well they do real well here's here's the hard conversation that a lot of young couples have

they have a dream for their house their world is going to look like. You're going to do this job and I'm going to do this job. Sometimes we go to college. Sometimes we do apprenticeships. Sometimes we get there. And then the life we want to have can't be supported by the jobs that we wanted also. So we have to make a decision. Either we're going to tone down.

We're just going to be a a family doesn't do vacations we go to koas we love them we're campers that's what we do right or honey i want to do an 18 month 24 month transition where you go work for a builder that has a health care plan that maybe still pays you 19 an hour but it's a net gain for our family because we have ten thousand dollars in medical expenses every year just off the top. And that's just what a man's got to do. He's got to go provide for his family, right? Right, right.

Uncomfortable, yes. And I'm not hygienic, yeah. But I think y'all can do that. A quick Google search just showed me the median salary for carpenters right now, 51 to 60 grand, which means a lot make more than that, a lot make, some make less than that, but he should be making closer to 24 to 35 an hour

at this stage. I agree, absolutely. And that's where I'm like, if he can go get a $5 an hour raise, that could change your life. Right. But again, you guys can be debt free with an emergency fund

really quickly. Today. But you've got to get control of the money you have before you go out trying to make more of it right and we have been using um a buddy app for the last year or so where we log literally all of our purchases so we were able to see like where all of our money goes what was that called a buddy app it's called the Buddy app. Yeah, you literally log all of your purchases into categories. I mean, logging is one thing, but actually creating a plan and tracking it is different. That's what EveryDollar does.

I'm going to gift you that one, and let me know how it goes for you. So hang on the line. Eboo will gift you EveryDollar Premium to help you guys take control of your money. But he's got to be involved in this budget. You guys have to get on a plan together long term. And that plan is the baby steps if you want to do it right. That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. Thank you to Dr. John Deloney, to Ibu, to Ben, to James, to Josh, to Andrew,

and to you, America. Thank you for listening. We'll be back before you know it. Thank you.