The Ramsey Show - App - Understanding the 3 Major Types of 529 College Savings Plans (Hour 3)

Episode Date: February 28, 2019

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

888-825-5225. Eric is with us in Oklahoma City. Hi, Eric. How are you? Good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

I'm good. Thanks for taking my call. So my wife and I are expecting our first child this year. Yay! Thank you. Yeah, we're looking at investing in a 529 plan. And my question is, you know, after looking at some of the various plans, do I want the in-state deduction or an out-of-state plan that might perform better and have lower fees? And in Oklahoma, we can deduct up to $20,000 in contributions when we file jointly,

which is typically what we do. So I just didn't know if you had any advice on that. It's the deduction on your state income tax, right? Right. Okay. All right. Well, I don't care which state you're in. Here's the guidelines I'm looking for.

There are three major types of 529s. One is prepaid college tuition. I would never do that. Prepaid college tuition I would never do. Okay? Okay. And number two is a fixed plan, which you put it in, and the investments are on autopilot. They start out with the child being young in good mutual funds, and they get more and more conservative automatically as the child gets older.

I don't believe in those kinds of plans for anything either. I want you to make decisions about your money and control your money. Number three plan is a 529 that allows you to decide which mutual funds you want the money to be put in, and they don't move unless you move them. And so I would pick one that has that and has a selection of good growth stock mutual funds that you can put money into, and it's just going to sit there. The fees usually are not that high. I do not know Oklahoma's plans, and I don't know if that 529 is available as an Oklahoma 529.

I would not take a bad 529 just to get a tax deduction. Okay. Gotcha. Yeah, I think there are like nine different, like you go in there and there is an age-based option, and then you have different options to where you can go in and select within the state's plan. Yeah, no age-based option, but then you look at it and say, is there a mutual fund option where you control it, it stays, and the mutual funds have good long track records, good growth stock mutual funds.

Why don't you just get in touch with one of our SmartVestor pros there in Oklahoma City there with you. Click SmartVestor at DaveRamsey.com. Put your stuff in. It'll drop down a list of the people we recommend there in that market there's several that have been with us many years in Oklahoma some of them are good friends of mine and um just sit down with one of them and they'll walk you right through it uh they do it every day and um you know that way you're not guessing I honestly have not opened up the thing and looked at it for Oklahoma in particular. But just as a general concept, let's not do an age-based plan, a life phase plan, that kind of a thing.

Let's definitely don't do prepaid college tuition. Instead, we're just going to put money in something that's going to outperform both of those, which is a good growth stock mutual fund with a long track record. And that's what I would do. Abigail is in Austin, Texas. Hi, Abigail. How are you? Hi, Dave.

I'm great. Thanks so much for taking my call. Sure. What's up? Okay. So I own three rental properties, and I have mortgages on each of them. That's the only debt that I have but it's significant debt on the three properties

it's $332,000 and change and so your personal residence is paid for? actually I'm renting currently why? well I'm

I moved in with my boyfriend and we're renting and it has to do with, well, we're, we're going to be, it's only going to be temporary that we're staying here and then we're going to go travel in an RV. And so it doesn't make sense for us to own a home right now. Okay. so actually i used to live in one side i own three duplexes and i used to live in one side okay so if you're traveling if you're traveling in an rv all over the nation um how are you going to manage rental properties in austin texas well i actually own a residential property management company and so i have you know all of that set up i actually own a residential property management company, and so I have all of that set up. I actually travel a fair amount now, and it all works out. So you have employees?

Yes. And services, hired companies that help with the maintenance or other things. And manage other people's properties? Yes, and my own. Okay. All right. I'm back with you now. Okay?

Okay. So one of the properties is owned in a self-directed IRA. So I'm aware that I can only pay that down to the extent that I have rental income from it. And then one of them I actually own 75% of. A friend owns 25%, so I don't totally control that. And then one of the duplexes I do. So, as I said, I have $332,000 in debt. I'm not full of anxiety over that debt, and yet I read the Total Money Makeover recently, very inspired by it, and I realized that you might suggest something different

than what I'm doing right now, and I would love to know. I would want to have some kind of an accelerated process on all three to get them paid as fast as possible i mean the whole thing is just there's nothing on fire here there's not an emergency uh there's nothing here that scares me to death i assume they're cash flowing um but um you know what what are these properties worth? If you owe $332,000, what's the total value of the three? The total value is about $880,000. Okay, so you've got a half million dollars in equity, give or take. If I found $550,000, that's pretty strong. So they're probably cash flowing pretty good.

I mean, I would want to be clearing up the debts out of the cash flows as soon as possible and any other money you've got, and I would probably just snowball them. The other thing I'd want to do is get that partner out of that other deal just to clean up your life and put yourself in a position that you own all three of these properties free and clear someday soon. And so how can I get there? What's the process I can use to get there? And so the one that's not in the IRA and doesn't have the partner, I would probably start there and knock him out. The other one, I'd be talking to that partner. What can I do to buy you out or what can we do to get out of this deal?

Maybe that one sells and you use the equity from it to pay off the other one or something. I don't know. But I'm just going to start to say, you know, three, four, five years, I want to have a plan for these things to start to be debt free. I don't want to just keep the mortgages forever. It's not a plan. So it's nothing on fire, but let's have a very intentional, methodical process in place. This is the Dave Ramsey Show.

I get asked all the time about what people need to do to improve their family's money situation. Two of the most overlooked things are term life insurance and disability insurance. Both plans make sure that you have income to pay bills and take care of yourself and your family if something were to happen. For term life, you need to carry 10 to 12 times your income, and I recommend 15 or 20-year plans for most families. Stay away from cash value or return of premium plans. They're just a ripoff. Disability insurance is just as critical. How are you going to pay your bills if you're unable to work?

Disability is the leading cause of bankruptcies and foreclosures, and that's why I send you to Zander Insurance. They've been helping my listeners find the right plans at the lowest cost for almost 20 years. Call 800-356-1780 or visit zander.com and compare online. That's 800-356-1780 or zander.com. This is the show where we talk about money in a way everyone can understand it, and in a way that applies to everyone. The danger of these simple concepts is those of you that view yourself as intellectuals, those of you that view yourself as sophisticated, sometimes you look at something that's simple and you don't understand how profound it is. Like the borrower is slave to the lender. Oh, but I use credit cards to get my miles.

You actually think you're going to take on a multi-billion dollar company who studies your behavior more than you study your behavior and come out on the right end of this stick? That doesn't make you sophisticated. That makes you blatantly stupid. Think about it. Did you know the credit card is the most aggressively marketed product in the history of humankind? Nothing has been sold to anyone in any culture in any kind of a volume close to the credit card. No product line or service has had anywhere near as much money spent on marketing and sophistication to sell it to you. Hundreds of millions of dollars a year is spent to sell you this product. And then you're so stupid that you think you're going to get away with using it for free.

If you do, it's going to be a short-term thing. Or if you think you do, you left out some of the variables. Example. When you spend using cash, it activates the pain centers of your brain. You have an ouchie moment when you hand over Uncle Benjamin Franklin. Dad, come, I just bought dinner. When you lay Uncle Benjamin Franklin in that black plastic tray known as his coffin because he's going away and he's not coming back you put him inside that little visa or american express fold over vinyl thing that the server brings you and you lay uncle

benjamin franklin in there you have a moment with Uncle Ben. Uncle Ben, I'll never see you again. You know this is happening. When you pay with plastic and I interview you, 24 hours later, you don't know what the total was on the bill. You can't tell me what you spent. You don't know what you spent at the gas pump because you stuck a card in it, you pumped the gas, and you walked away. You can't tell me what your gas bill was.

In the days that we used to walk into the market and lay money down on the counter, and then they would give you change because you didn't round it off when you were putting your gas in, we knew exactly what we spent on gas in those days. Today, you don't even know what your gas is. You don't know. I use a debit card. I can't tell you what mine was. Can I tell you what it cost to fill up my truck the other day?

I don't know. I didn't notice. Just stuck the card in, put the gas in, drove away. I'm just like you. Cash activates the pain centers of the brain. There's two or three things that activate memory. Memory is activated primarily by pain, fear, heavy emotion of some kind. Positive, pleasurable emotion will activate memory.

That's why you smell something and you remember a girl you dated in high school. Smell activates that memory. That's why you smell something and you remember a girl you dated in high school. Smell activates that memory. That's what happens. That's the process. So here's the thing. If you can't remember it, it means the pain centers of your brain were not activated. And when we do surveys with what you spent on that meal, as you walk out of the door of the restaurant, you can't tell me what the total was. Oh, it was around $25. Around $52.

I don't know, $56, $54. I don't know. I don't even remember. I think I left the tip. I left the big tip because I've been drinking. You know, now you really can't remember anything, right? So this is how people handle their money. I left a big tip because I've been drinking. You know, now you really can't remember anything, right? So this is how people handle their money.

And yet you tell me you're going to beat the credit card company. You spend 12% to 18% more on average when you use plastic than when you use cash. That's what all the studies show us because you don't feel the pain. And the world's worst place is the grocery store. They are the best marketers on the planet. The best merchandisers on the place is the grocery store. They are the best marketers on the planet. The best merchandisers on the planet is a grocery store. Man, they know how to put the food at the right place. Old-fashioned example, the easiest example, is the bread and the milks at the back, right?

Because everybody that walks in a grocery store is buying bread or milk, and they have to go through the full length of the store and have every opportunity to impulse on some kind of jar of peanut butter and jelly mixed together, pre-mixed for you. I don't know what you're impulsing on, but there's something getting your attention. It must be those new peach Cheerios I heard about today. And guess what? All the stuff is at the eye level that gets your attention, and they pay for the shelf position as you walk to the back to get your bread and milk.

And you can't walk out without spending money. The aisles are designed for you to buy stuff. And when you use plastic at the grocery store, you have no idea what your grocery bill is. And you spend more. You spend more on clothing. Oh, yeah, throw in that accessory. Oh, yeah. You'll pick up other people's tab at the restaurant.

I'll buy you dinner tonight. Not thinking anything about it, just drop 50 bucks. Never think a thing about it. Now, I'm not saying you shouldn't be generous. I'm not saying you shouldn't accessorize. And I'm not saying you shouldn't enjoy some purchases at the grocery store. I'm just saying you ought to do it on purpose. And if you think that credit card use, even if you're paying it off every month, costs you zero, then you are a very naive individual that has been influenced

by an industry that has spent more to influence you than any other industry in the history of the world. That should give you pause. That should give you pause. That should give you pause. If anybody else was selling you that hard on anything, your shields would go up. But for some reason, when it's credit cards, we're like, oh, no, Dave, I have this figured out. I'm 26, and I've got this figured out.

I'm 26 years old. I make $42,000 a year, but but i'm gonna beat up on old discover card they don't know anything i've got them beat i'm getting those discover points not costing me a thing you know how stupid that makes you sound when you say stuff like that i'm making all my money on my airline miles you know i've met with thousands of millionaires i've never met a millionaire said dave you know i made all my money on my airline miles. You know, I've met with thousands of millionaires. I've never met a millionaire who said, Dave, you know, I made all my money on my airline miles. Dave, my breakthrough was my Discover Points. I'll pay mine off every month, Dave. I'm beating up on the credit card company.

I'm getting the use of their money, wink, wink. Millionaires just don't say stuff like that. Now, some of them use a credit card. They do pay it off every month. But I got to tell you, their lifestyles are so conservative. Besides, you know, when I set them up next to you, middle class people are spending everything you make and trying to convince me that I'm a troglodyte because I don't use credit cards. Well, I'm not broke anymore.

This is a multimillionaire troglodyte you're listening to. Why? Because I started understanding that behavior affects your ability to build wealth more than all your little math tricks you think you see all the variables on. The borrower is slave to the lender. It doesn't say except airline miles. The borrower is slave to the lender. It doesn't say except discover points.

The borrower is slave to the lender. It doesn't say except I got 0% interest on my new car, which lost $7,000 when I drove it off the lot, so it's not really 0%, is it? How stupid are we? I mean, you're going to hand me a nickel in front of me while you're picking a $100 bill out of my back pocket and call me smart. Think, people. Think. Think.

If someone's shoveling stuff down your throat at this rate, to the rate of hundreds of millions of dollars a year, and their ability to sell and to market to you is beyond any other sophistication of any other marketing program. There must be money in it. Follow the money. Follow the money. So I don't have any credit cards.

I have two debit cards. You can do what you want. But it's working for me. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Are high health care costs getting you down? Are you confused trying to navigate your options? Do you wish you could find an affordable, biblical solution to your health care costs? Based on New Testament principles, Christian Health Care Ministries, or CHM, helps Christian families, churches, and ministries join together as the

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Christian Healthcare Ministries is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. chministries.org Thanks for being with us, America. This is your show. Angie is with us in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi, Angie. How are you? I'm good.

Thank you. Thank you for taking my call and giving me the opportunity to ask you a question. My question is, we are on baby step three, and the last thing we have for our debt is our house, and I have a few lingering old hospital bills. Then you're not on baby step three. Well, that's technically no. I'm trying to work that out, though. My husband tells me that you say we should only pay $0.25 per dollar,

and I'm trying to work with the debtors to pay them. I only have one of them who are willing to drop it at all. And they're willing to take off 40%. And I'm only looking at a total of about $3,800. Okay. So I don't know if we should do that. My husband tells me, no, that you say that we should be able to work it out with them to get it $0.25 per dollar.

And I have been working with them back and forth. How old are the debts? They're about four years old. Are you paying payments on them? No. We only literally just started getting our bills and life together within the last year. Good for you. Okay.

All right. $3,800. And what's your household income? Monthly, it's about $6,500. And our allowances that we pay out in food and bills and things like that is about $3,700. Gotcha. Okay. All right.

I would take the 40% one. How big of one is that? That one is a total of about $2,000. Okay, so that gets a half of it gone, right? Yes. Yeah, and then just get in writing the actual balance on the others and just pay them. Well, see, that was going to be my other question. They refuse to do that.

Then they get no money. They will not give. Then they get no money. Okay. Because they're playing you, and they're going to come back for more late fees and interest on top of what you think you owe. I got you. Okay. So that was the debate me and my husband were having.

He said no. If he wants to get all involved in this, it probably would be helpful. Okay. Because I want him to get nasty with them okay you have got to be kidding me do you idiots want money or not if you want money i'm standing here with money but i have to have it in writing or i'm not giving you a dime because i think you're lying because your mouth is moving okay because literally this is this is what the guy tells me he goes well we do not send out letters we do not send out emails we don't care if you pay your bill or not because it's on your

credit it's your debt and i'm thinking okay well consciously i feel bad owing this money you know and like i said we've changed everything you know what i don't care i don't care if i pay it either let me talk to your supervisor because you're too stupid to talk to okay this is how i mean you you're not dealing with intelligent life you're talking to a collector who just told you he doesn't care if you pay your bill horse crap yeah that's you know that's just dumb and just say it. You know, that's a dumb butt statement. Do you think I'm going to fall for that? Let me talk to your supervisor. You're too stupid to work this out.

A simple email from one of you morons, and I will send you a check. And you'll have this cleared up, and I'll have it cleared up. Isn't it your job to collect a bill, or are you too stupid and trifling to do your job? I'm sorry, people that are listening out there that are nice people they don't understand but you've not been dealing with intelligent life the people you're talking to his parents are cousins right well obviously but hey thank you on that and i want to say one more thing and that other thing is that literally in the last year that we've started doing this like things have done such 160 degree turnaround for us everything like we just we appreciate the program and it's working so well for us thank you thank you very

much listen dude thank you look at this conversation as a game so the stuff that i'm doing right there it's psychological warfare they're just messing with you and here's the problem if you send them a 250 check on a four-year-old medical bill that you think is $250, they're going to send you a bill for another $208 in late fees. Okay. If you don't have it in writing that this is the actual balance. Gotcha. Okay, so I will do that and not pay them until I get a letter.

Yeah, and just, you know, and call them once a month and say, are you idiots ready for money? Okay. You know, just start the conversation that way. Because everybody I've talked to over there is a fool so far. Are you a fool? You work there. You must be a fool because everybody else that works there is a fool.

So just mess with them because that's what they're doing with you, and I'm telling you, they're playing you, and you will pull the thread on this sweater forever if you don't get it in writing and time down you can tell they're lying if their mouth is moving daniel daniel is with us in dallas hi daniel how are you i'm good sir how are you doing better than i deserve what's up hey so um my wife and i are somewhere in between two days to two weeks from Friday being out of Baby Step 2. Yay! Yeah, so we'll call back and do our stream then.

So I'll be really excited just calling then. So my question is, we've been really going gazelle intense. We paid off about, once we're done, we'll be at about $67,000 in about two and a half years. Way to go, man. Congratulations. Yeah, it's been really good. And then I guess my question is, we've both been working second jobs. So when does Dave Ramsey give permission for us to rest and quit our second job?

But, dude, you're an adult, and now you're a successful adult. You get to decide things, okay? You don't need Dave Ramsey's permission to do squat. Well, I mean, your permission has worked really well for us, so I figured I'd ask one more time. Yeah, I mean, you guys have been working 80 hours, 90 hours a week, haven't you? You know, something like that. I mean, she's probably been working a little bit more.

She gets overtime. I'm a city worker and get comp time, so I don't get that benefit. But we've probably been working about 50, 60 hours a week, each of us. Yeah, something like that. Okay. So 20 hours on top of our work. Listen, it's a math thing, right? When the debt is gone and you're working baby step three,

how fast do you want to build your emergency fund? For sure you quit the second jobs after baby step three. Yes. A hundred percent. Okay. The only question is how fast do you want to build baby step three? If you want to build it a little bit slower because you quit the second jobs, ding, ding, go ahead.

Yeah, it probably only makes about a month difference. Okay. So, I mean, we're looking probably about like four months to build up our baby steps uh maybe with and you've been going and you've been going like a crazy people for two and a half years and you got your debt paid off so if you want to take an extra month to build that oh well that's fine awesome or if you get close and she could pick up some ot that last month and go after it again for a little bit i mean the good news is ot it's not like you have to quit the job you just say i don't want ot or i do want it yeah she loves working the

overtime she uh the second job is the thing that's like you know we're ready to start spending time with the family a little bit more but you know we want to take advantage of it yeah yeah i mean that's that could be your reward that could be part of your debt-free celebration you know i quit yes yeah but that it's just it's you're just you make the adult decision you're making the how quick does it if it makes a one month difference i'm with you i'd probably quit i'm kind of right there so um you know that's the deal hey thanks for the call open phones at 888-825-5225. This is the Dave Ramsey Show.

We're glad you're with us. Dave, I've got a small 401k from a past job. What should I do with it? Well, you always roll a 401k when you leave your job to the next job. I'm sorry. What am I thinking? My brain's not working okay when you leave your work you always take your retirement with you if you can enroll it direct transfer into an ira and we always select four types of growth stock mutual funds

growth growth and income aggressive growth and income, aggressive growth, and international. That's the process. So get in touch with SmartVestor Pro and roll it over to a good mutual fund into a direct transfer IRA, a traditional IRA, not a Roth. There's no taxes on that at all. Later, you can convert that to a Roth if you would like to. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you. Our scripture today, Psalm 37, 4, Delight yourself in the Lord, and He will give you the desires of your heart. Julius Irving said, Goals determine what you're going to be.

Sherry is with us in Phoenix. Hi, Sherry. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, I had a quick question for you.

My husband and I, we started your program about a month ago and, um, we are actually kind of to the point I've talked to credit card companies. We're in a good seven, $70,000, um, in debt, um, mostly because we opened up a new business and we invested the money. Um, but now we're to the point to where we can't even make our four walls. Um, and we don't want to And we don't want to claim bankruptcy. Why can't you make your four walls? Your income gone down? It has gone down. He used to work. We haven't been used to the money that he's been getting paid, mostly because he was having to work out of town a lot. He was in Alaska for like four months, and we had two children.

So for him to be able to be home more, we had to take a pay cut. And that's when we decided to invest in this business. So that's why the paychecks have gone completely down. Okay, so he has a side business? He does, yes. he has a side business? He does, yes. What is his side business? It is a, we invested in flip housing.

In a what? What'd you say? Like flipping houses. You're broke and you decided to start flipping houses? Yes, yes. So do you have houses? We do not.

We've been trying the best that we can to try to find one. Good. No, that's absolutely, this is a good way to go bankrupt for sure. Yeah. No, you should not be flipping houses when you are broke and $70,000 in debt and can't even make your bills. So what is his day job? His day job is he does X-raying on pipelines. So it's a good job.

It's not a good job. It doesn't pay your household bills. What is his income? It fluctuates. What's his income a year? What's his income a year? What's his income a year? $80,000? $80,000?

You can't live on $80,000 a year. Yeah. Why? Well. How much is your rent? We actually have a rental in Colorado, and we do have a house here in Phoenix. Okay. Sell the rental in Colorado.

That's what, yeah, that's what I've thought. Yesterday. About doing. Okay. Okay. And what is it worth? It is worth, I believe, $230. And what do you owe on it?

We owe $160. Oh, good. That'll pay off a bunch of the credit card debt sell that tomorrow if you don't have that on the market by monday i'm going to come to phoenix and kick your butt this is ridiculous what is your current home worth um our current home is worth Worth $225, I believe. What do you owe on it? We owe probably about $215. Okay. And what is your income? I stay home.

How many kids? We have two children. There is one thing that I did want to ask you about. We are locked into, we're wanting to have a third child, but we have to do IVF. I'm sorry? We are locked IVF're wanting to have a third child, but we have to do IVF. I'm sorry? And we are locked IVF. Oh, okay. And we're locked into doing that because we made our deposit.

If we don't go through with it, we will lose that deposit. How much was your deposit? It was $500. And what's the follow-through? $15,000? The follow-through is $4,800. $4,800. Okay. Yes. All right. And you have $70,000 in debt,'s the follow-through? $15,000? The follow-through is $4,800. $4,800. Okay.

Yes. All right. And you have $70,000 in debt, and you have a house in Colorado. What do you owe on your cars? Our cars, his is paid off. Mine is a forerunner. Our payments are like $500 a month, which I've told him to get rid of it. Sell it.

Okay, good. So we're selling the car. We're selling the house. We're going to finish the IVF. We're going to pay cash of it. Sell it. Okay, good. So we're selling the car, we're selling the house, we're going to finish the IVF. We're going to pay cash for it. And he's going to pick up an extra job. I'm sorry he's not going to see his children. He's getting ready to lose everything. This is what you do when you're up against the wall.

You go to work. Yeah. A lot. It's not a lifetime sentence, but for the next two years, he needs to be working 80 hours a week and get this dadgum family out of the ditch. Yeah. And no, you're not flipping any houses. Good Lord.

Yeah, yeah. You paid $3,000 to go to that weekend class crap, didn't you? We paid $70,000. thousand dollars to go to that weekend class crap didn't you uh we paid 70 thousand dollars well in total we got asked to be part of the um the next level so we had to invest more money into that next next level of getting screwed what exactly i know i know unbelievable and i wasn't sure i tried talking to credit card companies because of course I don't want to you need to list your you need to list out your budget I don't give a crap about your credit cards just let them sit there if they scream and your credit gets messed up I don't care

right now you need to list your debt your food lights and water pay your house payment pay your car payment until you get it sold. You have enough coming in to do that. You were wrong. You can meet your four walls. Okay. $80,000 a year will do that. Plus, he's got three extra jobs now.

I just gave them to him. Real jobs that pay money. Not that are ripping him off. You should not have to pay money to make money in this case you go get a job making money i don't care if you're delivering pizza but whatever you need if he can get if he can get ot on his current job take all the ot because he's probably worth more there than he is anywhere else exactly our side gigs in that industry because apparently alaska and now he's still doing x-ray so he's a pipeline guy he probably has some pretty specialized

skills that are pretty valuable if we put him to work right and let's go earn some money and clean this mess up the credit cards can sit I don't want them to but they're the last thing on the list to pay here get rid of the car get rid of the house in Colorado immediately immediately and then all you've got to do is buy food, lights, and water, pay your house payment. You can do that. That's your four walls. Four walls are necessities. Everything else after that might be in trouble for a while, but I don't think it is. I think you can probably pay it all if you get on a really, really tight budget. Beans and rice, rice and beans, and no, you're not going on vacation. Not anytime soon.

And no, you're not going to see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working there. Oh, and by the way, anything you can do to pick up some extra income while you're at home with these kids would be awesome. $1,000 a month changes this formula pretty dramatically. I don't care if you're watching somebody else's kid. That wouldn't be a bad thing for a little while. Something along those lines anything i don't care if you've got a some kind of specialized training yourself and skills you

could bring it in home and do that two or three hours a day and you are a home economist you are a coupon queen you are a consignment sale lady and you're cooking from scratch because it's healthier and a whole lot cheaper and uh if you're going to be home that's the kind of stuff you're going to be doing and i don't mind you being home i'm with you on the on the goal of that and i'm with you on the goal of the next baby i'm not getting any issue with that um but don't put any down any more deposits if this round of ivf doesn't work until we get this household out of a ditch the last thing you need is the stress around all this stuff going on, and then add to that the stress of trying to have another child.

That just puts you, man, bless your heart, that's a mess. But you guys are going to have to take some action here that's wise and that is long-term thinking, because you've made several unwise decisions so far, and you're going to have to offset that and turn it around. But that's what's going on here. You don't have a four walls problem. You can eat, you can pay your lights and water, and you can pay your house payment, and you

can pay your car payment until you get it sold. You can pay, and that's the deal. So, you know, it just doesn't make sense. You can do your four walls. That's the way to go. So thank you for the call. That puts this hour of the Dave Ramsey Show in the books. Our thanks to James Childs, our producer, Blake Thompson, our chief production officer,

and Kelly Daniel, our associate producer and phone screener. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer and phone screener for The Dave Ramsey Show. If you would like to do your debt-free scream live on the show, make sure you visit DaveRamsey.com slash show and register. We would love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story.