The Ramsey Show - App - Wake-Up Call: We're Having a Baby! (Hour 2)

Episode Date: November 15, 2018

The show about you

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Starting off this hour is Wally in New York City. Hey, Wally, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show.

Thank you, Dave. It's a pleasure to talk to you. You too, sir. What's up in your world? Well, I'm in the middle of, I guess my wife and I are in the middle of our debt snowball. And so my question was, should we pause our debt snowball to save $15,000 to put it into a mortgaged rental property that we have so that we could sell it. Put it into a mortgage. You're upside down? No, but we kind of got stuck with this property, so it's a second home. And we're not underwater, but I think if we could put $15,000 into it,

we would get that plus sum when we sold it. What's the plus sum? We owe $125 when we sold it. What's the plus sum? We owe $125 on it. It's probably worth $150 as it is, and we could probably get $180 if we put $15 into it. You double your money? Yeah. Okay.

I'd want to verify that and not just have a vague feeling. Okay. Because a lot of things that you do on improvement on real estate increase the probability of sale but not increase the price okay you follow me yeah and i don't i don't care about that i would just my likelihood right now i'd rather you just sell it as is but if you truly can get a real estate agent that knows what they're doing to look you in the face and go, dude, you spend $15,000, you're going to raise this price $30,000. If they can do that with comps and show you real numbers, then yeah. But if this is just, oh, it'll sell better, well, no kidding, everybody knows that.

But I don't need to will sell better. I'd rather just sell it and not put money into it. What's your household income? It's just over $. Okay. So the 15 is not a big strain to you. It's not going to like devastate your debt snowball by two years or something. It's just you're going to tap the brakes for a month or so and month and a half, two months and get this done. That's okay. It's not the end of the world, but just don't fall into the rationalization part of it and make sure you're really increasing value or otherwise otherwise I'd just sell it as is.

Okay, great. Is that logical? Thank you so much. Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. Thank you. Thanks for calling in, dude. Christy's with us in San Diego. Hi, Christy.

Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. It's a pleasure to meet you, Dave. You too. I'm sorry, I'm really nervous. I just got through paying off twenty thousand dollars in credit card debt over the summer and um that was our last step besides my car and um the house good for you my car yeah i owed eighteen thousand my car starting last month and i paid six thousand towards that and i plan on paying it off by the end of the year. Good for you. We just refined our house.

We actually have a vacation house that's going to be our retirement. I'm 54 and my husband is 63. So at the end of this year, I plan on being debt-free besides the house. So I'm planning on it taking us three years to pay off the house. So I'm wondering, are we going to have time to be millionaires? And when should my husband collect Social Security benefits? What's your household income? My husband will make, well, I just started working working with them we'll be making about 180

000 this year and next year probably more like 200 000 since i'm starting to work now and your home is worth what um 217 it's worth uh 305 we got it appraised but we just refied it for 217 good good and you're gonna you're gonna keep the vacation our primary residence right now we're renting actually though because um we we live in california but our house is in arizona that we're going to retire oh and that's the one you're paying off that we're discussing correct gotcha okay all right and so let me get this straight. You would have zero debt in three years?

Yeah. Yeah, I'm thinking it'll probably take three years. At 57 years old, you'd have zero debt making $200,000 a year? Yeah. You don't even need to ask if you can be a millionaire. I mean, let's just do some addition. You don't even have to do multiplication, let's just do some addition. You don't even have to do multiplication. Let's just do some addition.

$100,000 a year? How long does it take to be a millionaire? Ten years? You're making $200,000. You've got no payments. That's if you make zero on your investments and you put it in a coffee can in the backyard, which you're not going to do. Right.

Okay. So, yeah, you're a millionaire. You're probably worth a million and a half in your investments plus your house. You're probably going to be worth close to $2 million at 67, 68 years old, if you follow through on the stuff we teach. My husband is 63. Well, I was going with your age, but okay. Then no.

I mean, how quick can he... He's not going to be by 65, no, because you're not even going to have the house paid off by 65. No, no. But he's probably going to work another 10 or so years beyond that yes okay good this guy's a horse man get with it yeah that's cool i mean he's making banks so why not i mean he's doing great and so yeah i mean again you put 10 years on this formula making 200 grand if you don't have a million and a half, $2 million stock back, including the growth on 401ks and good growth stock mutual funds and Roth IRAs, I don't know what you mess up really bad. So, yes, you're going to get there. Jump on Chris Hogan's website at ChrisHogan360.com and use the RIQ.

It'll help you do some of those calculations. It's a free online tool, but it's kind of a no-brainer in your case. Yes, you're going to be there if you continue to concentrate, focus, and do smart stuff like you've been doing here, which you're doing really, really well. And hold on.

I'll give you a copy of Chris's book, Retire Inspired, because you're getting ready to retire inspired. No question about it. Open phones this hour at 888-825-5225. You jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money. Dave, do you make any adjustments to your plan for those trying to save for a home in the Southern California area where real estate prices are extremely high?

Or in Manhattan where real estate prices are extremely high? Or in Northern California, maybe like San Francisco, where prices are extremely high, or in northern California, maybe like San Francisco where prices are extremely high, or no. Here's the thing. You don't get a pass on math because the real estate market is high in your area. If your house payment is 50% of your take-home pay because you live in California, it's still 50% of your take-home pay. You're still house poor. You're still going to struggle.

Well, that's unrealistic. It's unrealistic for you to live in California with your income then. That's what we're saying. You can't afford to live in Manhattan if you work minimum wage. Duh. That's how it works, okay? I mean, you can do it, but it's dadgum near impossible. And you're not going to be buying a penthouse, okay?

Or an 800-square-foot co-op, either, for that matter. So you have to be able to make the math work because math doesn't give you a pass. There's nothing smart about smartphones if your wireless plan is blowing your budget each month. Pure Talk USA offers smarter wireless with unlimited plans starting as low as $20 per month. You never pay data overage fees and we never turn off your data. No contracts, no hidden fees. And if you're thinking our low cost means less coverage, think again. Our voice and data service covers 99% of Americans

and our 4G LTE network provides the fastest internet speeds like more expensive carriers. We operate on the largest GSM network in the U.S. to ensure you receive reliable coverage virtually anytime, anywhere. Plus, you can keep your same phone and number and add multiple lines to save more. We're so confident you'll love Pure Talk USA that we invite you to try our service risk-free. Just visit puretalkusa.com, enter promo code SAVEDAVE, no spaces, and receive 50% off your first month. That's puretalkusa.com, promo code SAVEDAVE. Thanks for joining us, America. Chance is in Fort Smith, Arkansas. Hi, Chance.

How are you? I'm doing good, Dave. Thank you for your time. Absolutely. How can I help? Last month, I became debt-free. Congratulations. Thank you very much.

My girlfriend and I have been together for three and a half years, and the plan that I had was to buy an engagement ring, fully fund the emergency fund, and then pay for a wedding after that. Okay. Two days ago, we got the information that we are expecting our first child. Okay. And then today, my landlord, we're renting a house right now. And my landlord calls me and says that he doesn't think that he needs this house anymore, so he's thinking about selling.

And I am interested in the house, but I'm not to the point where I can buy the house right now. Correct. So you need to look for a place to rent. Okay. You're not ready to buy. You have a baby and a wife on the way in one order or the other. Right. And that's something I wanted a little advice to you on was what order to go ahead and tackle that? Well, there's a ton of data out there that says if you graduate from high school first,

get married second, and then have a baby third, that you have a 140% chance, less likely chance of being in poverty. There's a huge set of sociological data out there that says that doing things in the proper order causes prosperity. And we kind of all look at that and go, well, no duh, huh? So in your case, what that would mean would be marriage soon and maybe a celebration later. I don't know. Depending on what you can save. I'm not sure you're going to have an emergency fund,

and I'm not sure you're going to have a ton of money for your wedding. So if you do that before nine months. But you're asking my advice, and I'll tell you what I would do if I woke up in your shoes. I'd get married as soon as possible, and then I'd figure out some way to have a celebration later at some point, either post-child or pre-child or something. I don't know. And let's just get these things in order. Because when you're my age, I'm almost 60, I'm 57, and you look back on this time in your life,

you're going to be glad that the story says you did it in this order. Okay. I just think you're going to. And I'm not beating on you or anything like that. I'm just looking at it like your dad would, okay, because I'm old enough to be your dad. So that kind of a thing and just thinking about it that way. What's going to be good for this kid? What's going to be best for your marriage? What's going to be best for your marriage?

What's going to be best for everything? There is no correlation statistically that we've ever been able to find between the size of a wedding and the success of a marriage. In other words, big weddings don't ensure great marriages. There's no statistical correlation. Or the size of a ring. Either one. As a matter of fact, there may size of a ring, either one. As a matter of fact, there may be an inverse correlation on that one.

But a big ring equals bad marriage. Now, I'm just saying because, I mean, my girl's got big rings. But my wife didn't. She got a little chip. And a little chip is in the safe now and was replaced later by a headlight. So you can do that. But a little chip will get it done. You know what I'm saying?

So you've got time to do the other stuff. So anyway, I probably would vote for an inexpensive, quicker wedding if I were in your shoes. And that's not because I'm not romantic. I'm just playing the odds of what's best for your family in the long term. And you're thinking like a husband and a dad now is the way you're thinking. So let's just do that. And then later on. I've heard you say that a hundred times, but with the news I've got recently,

my brain's not working right. Well, yeah, you simultaneously have a little terror and a little joy, right? Exactly. How old are you? I'm 29. Perfect. Very cool. Good for you.

Well, that's how I would do it, and then I wouldn't worry about buying a house right now. You guys get on out. Let's get the wedding, get the kid, get the marriage, get the celebration done, get the emergency fund done, then save a down payment, and that's a year. Right. That's going to be an exciting – It won't be too long. That alone is going to be an exciting year to do all of those things.

And then start saving your down payment. And so if your landlord wants to sell sooner than 12 months, then you're probably looking for a new place to live. And don't move an extremely pregnant wife. Go ahead and get her moved now if he wants you to move. And so, yeah, it's no fun moving and pregnant it's just not fun at all we didn't ever do it but i'm i'm just i've heard the rumors so hey thanks for the call man open open phones at 888-825-5225 888-825-5225 i'm gonna try to pull that email up

if i can find it really really really fast, and I'm going to try to talk like I'm doing this real fast. Look at that. Look at that. Look at that. Look at that. Look at that. Come here. Open up. There we go. Because I want these stats. Professor Bill Galston, President Clinton's domestic policy advisor and now senior fellow at Brookings, explained in the early 1990s that an American need only do three things to avoid living in poverty. Graduate from high school, marry before having a child, and have that child after age 20. Only 8% of people who do so, he reported, will be poor, while 79% who fail to do all three will be poor and be at the poverty level. Isn't that interesting?

A recent report on this topic focusing on millennials reports that 97% of those who follow the success sequence, high school first, earn at least a high school diploma, work, marry before having children, will not be poor as they enter their 30s. 97%. And this is largely true for ethnic minorities and those who grew up in poor families. But sadly, fewer millennials are keeping these things in order compared to their boomers and Xers, X4 bearers. Only 4% of homes with a married mother and father are on food stamps at any given time. But 21% of cohabitating and 28% of single mother homes require such public assistance.

Likewise, 78% of married people own their own home, a central goal in achieving the American dream, while only 41% of cohabitating adults and 44% of singles do. 78% own a home versus 41% and 44%. Data indicates that marital status boosts home ownership more than home ownership increases marital opportunities. A major 2014 report from the American Enterprise Institute and the Institute for Family Studies at the University of Virginia reports that adjusting for family size, family income is 73% higher for married women compared to that of their unmarried peers. Married men benefit an average annual economic marriage premium of at least $15,900 per year on average compared to their unmarried peers.

So just tremendous socioeconomic data out there supporting what he and i were just talking about um and it's just you know it's very interesting stuff to think about i mean that's pretty amazing when you think only where was this what was that number again 79 of those who fail to do all three in that order will be poor and only eight percent of the people who do them in order will be poor, and only 8% of the people who do them in order will be poor. Now, I wonder when I read that, honestly, which is cause and which is effect. Is the poverty causing some of the decisions out there, right? You know, the family decisions of marriage or kids out of wedlock or whatever, and cohabitating and all that, or is the cohabitating causing the poverty?

Which is causing it? Poverty causing the demographic change, the moral situation, or is the other? But I tend to believe that it is caused the way this study is showing it, that when you start doing things in the proper order, you have a tendency to prosper. I do know the marriage premium has been there. Several studies have verified that for years. Married ladies make substantially more, substantially more than unmarried ladies, than ladies cohabitating.

The marriage premium with that, it's amazing. 73% higher, this study showed, for married women, their income versus that of their unmarried peers. That's family income, but that includes the ladies' income as well, obviously. So, very interesting stats and very interesting things to think about. And so, good call. Interesting discussion. Open phones. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Let me tell you a story about two families that are very much alike in a lot of ways. Both families have two working parents and a couple of young kids. Each has debt and has struggled to make ends meet.

But they're starting to make headway with their budgets and smarter decisions with money. They have dreams and plans, and the only real difference is that one family has the right amount of term life insurance, and the other doesn't. Big difference. If one of the parents die, and that does happen, their well-being would be destroyed. Paying for the mortgage, utilities, food, and other bills would be impossible, let alone saving for education or retirement. That's why every day I talk relentlessly about getting term life insurance. Just go to ZanderInsurance.com or call 800-356-4282 and see how inexpensive it really is. Be the family that takes those deliberate steps to be different and responsible.

It really does make you the hero of your story, and it puts you on course for better things ahead. Daniel and Jenna are with us in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. Welcome, guys. How are you? Good. How are you? Doing great. Better than I deserve.

Well, good to have you. Where do you guys live? We live in Washington, D.C. All right. Welcome to Nashville. Thank you. Good to have you. And all the way down here to do your debt-free screen.

Yes, sir. I love it. How much have you paid off? About $80,000. Eight? $80,000. $80,000. Okay, good. And how long did that take? A little,000. Eighty. Okay, good.

And how long did that take? A little bit over a year. Okay, very good. And your range of income? About $190,000 a year. Okay, cool. What do you guys do for a living? I work in cybersecurity.

I was a teacher until last year, and I'm staying home to take care of our baby. I love it. Very cool. What kind of debt was the $80,000? Well, that's my job to answer that because it was mostly mine. Student loans, a large portion, and a new car. And a small portion of that was my husband's car loan as well. Okay.

All right. So what happened a year ago? Because during this year you had a baby, it sounds like. We did. And what put you on this journey? Tell me what happened. Well, we got married first. Okay.

And then about eight weeks later, we found out we were pregnant. Yay. So you've been married a year? Yes. Just about. Just over a year. All right. Very cool.

And then find out a baby's on the way. And uh-oh, wake up call. Absolutely. Absolutely. So it did start a little bit before that. I was living abroad when Daniel and I met. And I brought that debt back with me, of course. It doesn't go away when you move abroad, unfortunately. I've heard that. It follows you. It follows you. So I, in preparation for moving home, started saving some money. My sister had told me about you.

And so I tried to save up a little bit before moving home so I could get a car and things like that. And so I moved home. We got engaged shortly after that. And so we started planning the wedding. And we wanted to be able to cash flow that. So we used a portion of what I saved to do that. And then, unlike what you teach, Dave, I wanted a new car. So part of it went to paying off cash flowing the wedding.

And then I bought a car. So right after the wedding, we said, okay, that's what we're going to do. We're going to get started. We're going to, you know, get started. We're going to pay off our debt. Started having those conversations. And, you know, during marriage counseling as well, those were things that we talked about as being important to us, being debt-free when we started our family. So, you know, we thought we had time. But, yeah, eight weeks into our marriage, we found out we were pregnant.

Yay! Yes, it was very exciting, but definitely fast-forwarded our plan faster than we thought. So we stopped our debt snowball. So something in the back of your head goes, I can't screw around with this. We're going to have to really get serious. Absolutely, absolutely. You know, I grew up, my parents were outrageously generous people, but I wanted to make sure our story was a little bit different. So I wanted to make sure that, you know, we were debt free before starting our family.

So that being said, that meant we had to make a make a choice. So knowing that I would stay home to take care of Sebastian when he was born led us to, you know, really being intentional with our money. And so we stopped our debt snowball, saved up that money just to make sure, like you teach, that everything would be okay when Sebastian was born and I was okay as well. And so as soon as everything was great, green light to start throwing huge chunks of money and cutting tens of thousands of dollars in checks. I think our last student loan payment was $12,000. Wow. Very cool.

Good for you. Cool. So, Daniel, she's got all these plans going on, and you're Mr. Cybersecurity, I'm thinking, very detail-oriented guy. Yes. And so you had to have the process nailed down, I bet. For the most part. She actually brought me to the Dave Ramsey Financial Peace University. I was in the military before, so I did a little saving on my end, especially when I got out.

And, of course, the military paid off my student loans, so I didn't have any debt, really, except for my car. So it was definitely harder for me to get on board because I liked having that nest egg and having all that money in the bank and whatnot. And after we cut a check for one of her first student loans, it was kind of like, oh, man, that was actually pretty relieving. Yeah. So, you know, after that, I was like, okay, when can we send the next one?

Game on. The next one. And towards the end, I was like, can't we just cut a $30,000 check now and send it over now? And she was like, I think we've got to wait for a few more days. I love it. We were both very excited towards the end. Good, yeah.

Well, you get that emotional momentum. It goes. Oh, goes oh yeah well thank you for your service and it's pretty cool we got a veteran on here for doing a debt-free stream huh yeah it's exciting very neat very neat so what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is uh definitely making sure that you stay on budget um making sure you put a budget together, making sure that you both as a family put that budget together. And there's, you know, it's, you know, don't deviate from that budget, I guess. Jenna, it sounds like you kind of went through a big transformation. Really, over about 24 months, your whole life has changed. I mean, you're a mom. You're married.

You went from a spender, kind of freewheeling, to boom, I'm killing this debt. I mean, you did like a complete 180, didn't you? Absolutely. I mean, it was always in the back of my mind. Growing up, I was told, you're going to go to college. But there was no plan for how to pay for it. I had absolutely no idea. Oh, you can just go and take out loans and go.

It's not a big deal. So that just, you know, piled up, piled up. And then, you know, my first teaching job didn't pay a lot. So, you know, I had to keep going from there. And it was definitely with Daniel's help and, you know, communication. I don't think there was a day that we've gone by that we don't talk about the budget and money. And, you know, it may be overkill but um i got so focused on that and you know that's something that we wanted both of us and had talked about a lot in our um in our counseling uh it's not overkill because what you focus on is what moves i mean

if you focus on being a good mom you're gonna be a good mom good dad you're gonna be good dad i mean husband wife you're gonna focus on that then mom. Good dad, you're going to be a good dad. I mean, husband, wife, you're going to focus on that, then you're going to do that. Absolutely. And if you don't focus on it, that's when everything starts to unwind in any part of our lives. So you have to pay attention to it. And I think that's the biggest problem. I'm often asked by reporters, what's the number one thing

mistake Americans make with their money? And the answer is, they don't pay attention. They just don't pay attention. We don't do stupid stuff on purpose. We're just not paying attention. So way to go, you guys. I'm very proud of you. Thank you.

It's got to feel good. It's got to feel satisfying. It feels amazing. A weight off the shoulders for sure. And going in, like you said, to this new chapter of my life as a mother, knowing that we don't have to worry about those payments anymore and being able to focus on our family and the future. Yeah, you guys are on track, man.

I mean, you're killing it. Very, very cool. Well, congratulations. I'm going to change it up. I'm going to give you a copy of Smart Money, Smart Kids. Number one best-selling book by Rachel Cruz and Dave Ramsey on how to teach your kids how to handle money. We're going to complete this family tree change here.

Perfect. Now, that's assuming you're never going to go in debt again. Oh, it's definitely not. It's not. Not something I ever want to do again. I bet. I bet. Well, congratulations, you guys.

Very well done. Proud of you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Daniel and Jenna and Sebastian. Yes. Look at Sebastian. Awesomeness.

That's very cool. Washington, D.C., $80,000 paid off in one year, making $190,000. Man, they got with it. Married, babies, everything, all in one year. Here we go. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one.

We're debt-free! We're debt free! Well, Sebastian, we got the video proof right here, man. It happened. Way to go, you guys. Very fun. Very fun. Well, this is how it works.

You decide. And as soon as you decide, things start to move. Until you decide, things don't start to move. You're not a victim. You can decide to work somewhere else. You can decide to work more. You can decide to spend less. You can decide to amputate the Tahoe.

You decide to work together with your spouse. You decide. When you get sick and tired of being sick and tired, that's when you change your life in any area, and that includes the area of money. Very cool. Love it. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you for joining us, America.

We're glad you are here. Jackie is in Orlando, Florida. Hi, Jackie. Welcome to The Dave Ramsey Show. us, America. We're glad you are here. Jackie is in Orlando, Florida. Hi, Jackie. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up?

My situation is this. My husband drives about 75 miles a day to and from work in a Prius that's worth about $6,000. But because of all the driving that he does in that car, it requires quite a bit bit of maintenance and repairs and he's skilled enough to do all of those repairs himself but he's just getting tired of repairing the car so he had the idea to sell that car get another cheap car to basically run into the ground but my my problem with that is that a different car would cost us about another thousand dollars per year in just gas alone. Plus, it would still need maintenance and repairs because he's still driving at 75 miles a day. So we were hoping that you could help us settle the debate. Okay.

What's your household income? It's about $120. Cool. And what's the other car worth? All the cars worth about $3. Your car. Your car. Yes. the other car worth? Our other car is worth about $3,000. Your car? Your car. What's it worth? Yeah, $3,000. So $3,000 for my car and $6,000 for the Prius. And you make $120,000 a year? Yes, but we've got one kid in daycare and another kid on the way, so our daycare

bill is going to double to about $1,500. And we're going to put 15% of our income away. Are you debt-free except your home? Yes, yes. Good, and you have your emergency fund in place. Yes. Okay, and I think you're both driving cars that are too cheap. I think you need to save up some money, and both of you need to move up in car.

We are getting a minivan. Okay, and you're going to pay cash for it? Mm-hmm. Okay, and it's going to be how much? Probably eight or ten. Okay. And do you have that eight or ten saved? Not yet, but we've got

time. Okay. All right. So that's your car. We're going to move you up into that, right? Mm-hmm. Okay. Now, I think with the number of miles he drives, whatever he's driving, you have already figured out that he's destroying it physically, but he's also destroying the value of it. Right. And so when you put a lot of miles on a car, you destroy the value, even if it's an expensive car that never breaks down, right?

And so we don't want to destroy the value of something expensive, which is where he kind of came up with the idea of that sidecar, the driver to work kind of idea. But I don't think at this stage of the game with what you're describing to me that you are in a position to do that. I would instead just say, let's maybe even before we move you up in van, let's move him up in Prius or in Honda Accord or whatever it is, but get him from a $6,000 to about a $12,000 car that gets good gas mileage and has more reliability and pay cash for it. He'll be happy with that. But he doesn't need two cars at this stage of the game.

Now, later on, let's say that you've got half a million dollars in your mutual funds and you're making really good money and he's still doing the same thing. He may want to have a nice car that's not his daily driver. That's that's his weekender. And, you know, the junker or the beat up one or the old one with the miles on it that's kind of lame is his driver that he's destroying its value because you don't ever want to take a $25,000 car and do to it what those miles will do to it in your situation you know you'd have to be really rich to do that um but but yeah i think we probably move him up in car somewhat i don't care what it is but as long as you pay cash for it and know that whatever you spend on his next car, you're going to lose it all very rapidly because he's destroying the value of that vehicle by the miles he's putting on it. And then we'll save up and move you up in van.

But I think both of you being in $10,000, $15,000 cars when you make $120,000 a year is not unreasonable at all. You're in baby step 3B for putting money into retirement, that kind of stuff. And I definitely would get you into a little bit of better vehicles. That's very reasonable in that situation, making $120,000 a year. Casey's with us in Fort Myers, Florida. Hi, Casey. How are you? Great.

How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up? I had a question regarding children, grandparents, and money and Christmas. We have a three-year-old, two-year-old, and a six-month-old, and so we're pretty busy around the house, as you can imagine. And we're working hard on raising them, teaching them godly principles, how to handle money, short chart, trying to be diligent ourselves in that with them and to be thankful, grateful, not to have an entitled mindset.

And so as Christmas comes along, grandparents who aren't able to see the kids very much, we feel like when it comes Christmas time, sometimes go way overboard, you know, with the guests. And so is that something we should just overlook or is that something that we try to redeem? You know, we've even talked about, you know, if they give, maybe we take some of those toys back, but we feel like that might be teaching our kids not being grateful, you know, to take those things back. So you being a grandparent, knowing that, I was just wondering if you had any information for us.

Yeah, my answer today might be more soft than it would have been uh 10 years ago in in all honesty um and i don't think the grandparents should be doing it because i don't think they can afford it but that's another thing that we haven't been able to change yet yeah yeah well um you know number one you handle your parents, she handles her parents, because otherwise you're going to get into a big problem, okay? And, you know, you'd be very gentle. And what I would say, let's start with the I can't afford it, to start with that part of it. It might be that you say to your dad and mom, you just sit down next time they're in at Christmas this time. Don't worry about this Christmas.

It's already here. But sit down when you're with them and go, you know, guys, we're really working hard to teach these kids the value of a dollar and dad you taught me the value of a dollar you made me work my butt off you remember that and who are you and what you do with my father the way you're treating these grandkids i mean so we've done that a little bit with with and for both of them our fears are that having that conversation with them would be a bad, because we don't have a problem confronting or lovingly, but we feel like that it would just be a, you know, this is the only way I can love these kids. You know, you're going to take it away from me.

Have you actually had the conversation that's actually what they said, or are you just afraid that's what's going to happen? We've talked about it, and my wife's talked about it with her parents some, and her mom gets really defensive. She's always bringing the kids things, and she says, this is how I can love them, I don't get to see them. So we're kind of just on eggshells there, and we've tried to do that. So that's why we've actually cut down.

Okay, number one, I'm not going to support a toxic situation where I can't have conversations about my kids. That's a breakdown there. That's got to be worked on relationally. But as an overarching concept, if they're not around a lot, they're not going to mess up your kids. Got it. You know? And they're probably not going to destroy their personal finances but it sounds to me like with what you described there

in in the context of everything that we're talking about that her mom has some issues and um like some issues and i i love the kids by giving them items. That's your description of love. You know, no, that's not love. Stuff is not love. Stuff's just stuff. So and, you know, you're denying me the right to love my grandchildren. Oh, drama queen. Seriously.

You know, so there's other issues going on there that are deeper than just whether your kids get too much stuff and so i'm gonna set boundaries with toxic value systems more than i'm worried about just the amount of gifts but um you know it's um if it's one time a year it's not going to mess up your playing with your kids your kids are not going to be entitled spoiled brats because once a year the grandparents give them too much stuff that they can't afford to give them. If it's that simple, you're okay. But, you know, I wouldn't fight it over that alone. But it's not that simple because mother-in-law has issues and apparently neither couple can

really afford to give at the level they're giving. And so, you know, I'm going to continue to have some kind of conversation here on both of those things, mother-in-law's issues and on mom and dad. We just, you know, we appreciate so much your heart for these kids. But, man, it's just a little over the top. If you dial it back a little bit, you could afford it more. And the kids are going to love you. You know, they don't love you based on how much you give them. And so, you know, let's dial this back a little bit, you could afford it more. And the kids are going to love you. They don't love you based on how much you give them.

And so, you know, let's dial this back a little bit. It's a little bit out of control. If you'd help us with that, we'd really appreciate it. If they can't hear a conversation like that, there's other stuff going on in this relationship, other boundary issues. If my kids, grown kids, said that to me about my grandkids, I would have to listen, and it would probably be true. This is The Dave Ramsey Show.

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