The Ramsey Show - App - Walking the Baby Steps When Life Gets Rough (Hour 1)

Episode Date: February 12, 2024

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships, never the fake kind. To my right is Dr. John Deloney, and he'll be co-hosting it up with me for the next couple of hours hey give us a call the number is triple eight eight two five five two two five and we would love to take your calls as it relates to your life your money whatever's going on in your world we want to talk about it especially if it concerns your finances or your relationships like i said that number is triple eight eight two five five two two five

and we will look forward to talking to you. In the meantime, John, I got to tell you, I'm really, really excited. I see here on my desk that the marriage and money, money and marriage getaway is back. It's back. And you joined us last year. It was a party. I did. It was amazing. I don't think we've ever done an event like that at Ramsey before. It was the first of its kind for sure. First time ever. And it was so successful that it was a 50%. I've never seen anything like it.

A 50% buyback, which means half of the audience there bought tickets for next year. Shoot. We had to invent new VIP tickets because they were all sold out. So this fall, October 24th through 26th, join rachel cruz probably jade come on let me in you're in and a whole gang of us um for a weekend away in nashville tennessee right here on campus to focus on your marriage two and a half days of teaching on communication sex and intimacy money we cover everything i was shook john when i when I walked into the auditorium at one point, I don't blush easily, but I was like,

this is kind of... Here's the deal. The promise is you won't leave without a question. The only reason you won't get your question answered is if you don't ask it, right? No holds barred. Lots of Q&As. You and your spouse walk away with the tools

you need to build a deeper connection and win with your marriage, your money, with your kids, all of it. Platinum tickets are gone. Very few VIP tickets left. And after today's announcement, they're going to be gone too. Here's the deal. This is a great Valentine's present for your significant others. So if you're wondering what to get them for Valentine's Day, buy them tickets.

Say we're going to Nashville in October. Everybody will win. That'll be good. And if you can, let me just add this. If you can get the VIP tickets. Yeah, it's legit. Because I was part of that VIP event. And let me just say,

you go to a private place that's secluded. That's amazing. And all the personalities are there. And it's like drinks and's amazing and all the personalities are there and it's like drinks and bourbon and it's good wonderful appetite like it's quite the they in last year it'll be we'll do different things but this year um some different things some same things but we we threw a prom which ended up getting off the rails i saw some things got off the rails i even started blushing and and I don't blush.

But we have a musical guest show up. It's just a blast. Go to ramsaysolutions.com slash events. ramsaysolutions.com slash events. Ooh, can't wait. All right, let's hit up these phone lines, John. Let's go to Emily, who's in Boston, Massachusetts. What's going on, Emily?

Doing well. Thank you for your work, who's in Boston, Massachusetts. What's going on, Emily? Doing well. Thank you for your work, and thanks for taking my call. I'm glad you're here. How can we help? Well, my husband, I knew he had a drinking problem, but I didn't really know the extent of it. Anyway, I found out he had not been paying the mortgage and, um, he ended up going into a rehab. Um, so he's there. And so I have to figure out the finances because I had let him, um, being part of the finances. So, um, and part of his assignment in the rehab is he had to tell me about any debts

he had. And so I found out he had about, so I guess, um, so I can't make minimum payments on those things. So, um, he does have a 401k that is like 400 or300,000. So someone told me I should have him ask for a hardship withdrawal to pay off these things. I'm not ready to go to that yet. Yeah, please don't do that. Please don't do that. Anything else that you want to unpack before we dig in? Yeah, I mean, I don't really have much.

He's not out of there yet, so I don't really have much communication. How long is the rehabilitation? It's like a few more weeks. Like two or six? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And then, so I just need to figure out how to make a budget and how to try to manage things. I guess I'll be in charge of finances. Let me let John jump in because I think the money is going to be secondary to how you're going to cope with him being back from rehab. Yeah, you still sound scorched earth.

You still sound like you got home and your house is burned to the ground and you're looking around. How long has he been gone? For since the beginning of the year. Okay. How long? And I'm not asking this in an accusing way, I'm asking this just in a practical way, how long have you been just kind of deer in headlights? Like everything feels so overwhelming, right? Yeah. I mean, I was able to make, you know, the payments on the mortgage

and rectify the mortgage. So I've stabilized things. Okay. All right. So one key here is you're going to have to feel this. You're going to have to grieve this. Y'all are going to have to rebuild your marriage from ash. Okay? Everything that was before is going to be different now. And you feel that, but it's just important to say it out loud. And it's not time for that yet. It's time for you to stand up as tall as you can, get some women in your life that you trust to walk with you. And you've got to, like you said,

I'm not going to, I just got to figure out a budget. No, you are now trying to save your own life for a season. Okay. Right. I'm going to, I am going to declare that I'm going to make a budget and I'm going to follow it and I'm going to find all of these debts and I'm not going to borrow against our family's future in order to clean up a bunch of nonsense. I'll call these debtors and say, I'll get to clean up a bunch of nonsense. I'll call these

debtors and say, I'll get to you when I get to you. I have no money right now. And we're going to go from there, right? So I want you to hear that I'm standing up as tall as I can. And there is going to be an element of fake it till you make it. That's okay. That's okay. But never again, are you going to put all of your debts? Are you going to put all of your, I don't even know how the mortgage is getting paid, any of that kind of stuff. I'm never going to put that all in one person. Okay. I want you to hang on the line. We're going to keep you over because I want to talk through some very tactical things. Jade's going to talk to you about some money, some very tactical money things. But we come back from

the break. You're going to be standing six inches taller. Some of it, you're going to be faking it. Some of it's going to be for real because we are going to reclaim your life. And then when your husband gets out of rehab, he's going to be different. And so are you. We'll be right back. All right, you are listening to The Ramsey Show.

I'm Jade Warshaw. This is John Deloney. And the last segment, we were talking to a wonderful lady named Emily. She was telling us a little about her situation with a husband who has gone away at rehab for alcoholism. And she is at home trying to make sense of what's going on with the money. Mortgage was behind, but she got that up to date, but has found out that her husband has what looks like over $100,000 racked up in different personal loans and credit card loans

and things like that. Emily, did I get it right? Did I leave anything out? No, that's correct. So John was telling you, you know, by the time this segment is over, we're going to make sure you're standing tall, feeling confident. I had a couple of questions to ask. Do you guys have kids? Yes. Did you say four? Yes. Oh my goodness. What are their ages? The oldest is 18 and the littlest is six. Okay. And are you working outside of the home? Yes. What do you do? I'm a nurse. Okay. And how much income are you bringing in? About $100,000.

And what did your husband bring in? About the same, $100,000. Did he lose his job? No. Okay. So he'll come back to that same salary yes okay all right so you know i'm looking at this and i'm going okay you guys have a great income i hate to say it like this but personal issues aside financially you guys have a the ability

to clean this mess up um and I see that in the numbers. It is going to take you getting on a budget, like John mentioned before. And I think that's something that you can do on your own at this point. Because, John, I want you to chime in here, because at what point when you're dealing with a situation like this, when do you decide, okay, for the time being, you don't have access to the money or you have access to whatever you're bringing in. But like, at what point do you draw a clear line and say, I haven't been able to trust you financially. And so I'm going to have to take this and until we decide otherwise. Talk to that. I, anytime somebody's struggling with addiction, somebody's using or

somebody's gambling, it's, it's it's it it's just it's self-preservation you have to right um and so if somebody if i got out of rehab and i'd been gone on a 30-day treatment program and my wife was at home i would be in favor of establishing a 90 or 120 days where i don't have access to things. And that is doing two things. One, letting my wife reestablish trust in me and me in her. And number two, making sure our house has footing because you're going to come right back to the same temptations, the same life, the same busy four kids, the same chaos. A wife who's making six figures as a nurse and then I'm making six figures in my job. All that stuff comes

rushing back at you, right? You get 30 days in solitude where you can breathe. You got counselors all day. You got a team. You got a group of people. It's a lot when you get out. So I would definitely recommend them building in some, hey, I'm paying bills for the next three months, four months, five months, six months, and we're going to slowly reintegrate this thing together. Emily, does that sound like something that the man you know would go along with? I hope so. I'm not sure. Let me ask you this. Is your marriage going to survive this?

Do you have any interest in still being married to this guy? Yes. marriage going to survive this? Do you have any interest in still being married to this guy? I, yes, I, yes, I'd like to give him a chance. Okay. I think it's really important that you, like I said, sit with a counselor or with a couple of women and you verbalize out loud, but I want you to create a list of needs and a list of wants moving forward. That way there's no guessing. It's going to be clear as kind. You're going to lay out for this marriage to, for me to be invested in rebuilding this marriage from the floor up. Here's what must be true. You can't drink. You can't be violent in the home you we will pay bills together every week right like whatever you need to re-establish trust in your home and by the way you're gonna have to

re-establish trust with emily fair yes yes how much of this are you weighing on yourself that you can't believe that you let it get like this a lot okay i want you to let that go yeah okay we're gonna let that go we learned a lesson and it's not gonna happen again that's unfair yeah okay did we answer your questions i want to make sure we we got you all the help you need before you before you go yeah i think it'd be fair to say, you know, he would not have access to things. I guess I'll have to contact these different folks and say I can't pay them. I don't know. Well, let's talk about that a little bit.

On a scale of one to ten, how confident do you feel with managing money or paying bills? Maybe a three. Okay. So before we get off the call, I'm going to make sure you get set up with EveryDollar, which is our budgeting app. It's really intuitive. It's very easy to walk through. Your homework from me, John gave you some homework. My homework is I want you to download EveryDollar and I want you to splurge on the premium version because you can afford it. And I want you to start plugging in those numbers tonight. I want you to start filling it in. It's going to have a place for you to list your income and when you get paid. And then from there on, I want you to write out everything that your heart can think of that you might possibly spend money on. The bills that you know about and even things that you hadn't really, you know, that you don't do, you know, all the time, but it's like, well, we might spend

money. It's my daughter's birthday coming up or whatever it is. And I want you to fill out that budget until the number above gets to zero. You're making a zero based budget. And that's going to give you a lot of peace and just honestly visibility to see where you guys' money is going. Cause $200,000 is a lot of money to bring in. And then there's a section where you can list out the debts. Now, you told me that your husband racked up $70,000 in personal loans and $40,000 in credit cards. My guess is there's probably some more debt laying around. I'm guessing, yes?

Yeah. Some cars, some other things like that. So I want you to go through that. And hey, Austin, will you set her up with customer care? I want to see about coaching. I want to see about Ramsey Plus. I want to give her the whole shaboodle because she needs it.

She's been going through it and I want to make sure that she is set up. And one last thing, Emily, it might require this getting well on the back end of this might require selling your house and y'all move into apartment for a season. It might require selling the cars. It might require selling the lake house or the boat or the whatever it's going to take to get squared up. Do not borrow from your 401k. You're

not there yet. You're not even close to there yet. And be prepared to keep all of these things that your life revolved around, these vacations, these homes, these assets, hold them very loosely with an open hand. Because the goal here is a new marriage. The goal here is financial security. The goal here is a new you. And you can't hold on to your old life and get something completely new. That's a very, very good point. That was heavy. That was a lot. Listen, I'm glad that you talked about this, John, because I say it a lot when it comes to money and couples. And, you know, here on The Ramsey Show, we say all the time, like, combine your money. Your money's got to be combined. And everybody's marriage situation is different. Obviously, in a healthy relationship, combining finances should

be second nature. For some people, it's not. And if it's not, you have to work towards that. But there are really, really real situations that people are encountering where both people in the relationship are not healthy. And so because of that, the idea of combining finances with someone who has displayed addictions or financial infidelity.

It's like, okay, lack of control. I need people to understand there is those points where you do draw that line and say, hey, right now in this season, and I love that you kind of gave it a 90 to 120 days deal. Now, her husband was willing to go to rehab. What about somebody who's like, listen, my spouse is just not there yet. Then you have to take, you have to take, she's got four kids. She's got four kids. Right. I'm going to put my money in my own account and we're not splitting and i'm gonna figure that out and

that's just that's just you gotta survive yeah right it's you gotta survive it it goes back to we tell people to be gazelle intense that's not a way of life long term that is a right now because your family is at such risk that we want you to sprint. Don't go out to eat. Don't do anything joyful. Just get out of debt. Very similar. This isn't long-term. This isn't going to be good for your marriage long-term. This is about you surviving. And that person keeps taking your money out of your account and your kids are at risk. You're at risk. I'm going to have my own account, my own money, my own stuff until my partner's safe and is well, and then we can build something together. Such good advice. You're listening to The Ramsey Show.

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Thanks for hanging out with us. If you want us to take your call, give us a call. The number is 888-825-5225, and we will chop it up with you. Let's go directly to the phone lines where we've got Catherine in Knoxville, Tennessee. What's going on, Catherine? Hi, I'm doing well. How are you? We're doing great.

All right. So my question for you guys is my husband and I recently moved to Tennessee and we just had our first baby in October. Nice. And we have some debt. A majority of it is student loans. Okay. We owe, well, he owes $58,000 for a student loan.

58? Yes, 58. You said that very strategically. Y'all both own, right? Yes. Y'all both own. Yes, we both own it because we're married. There you go.

Yeah, yeah. What else you got? Yes. Y'all both own it. Yes. We both own it because we're married. There you go. There you go. Yeah, yeah. What else you got? So we also have a little over $21,000. I guess it would be considered consumer debt. I hope I'm saying that right. Okay. What is it? So like our cars, I owe a little over $5,000 on my car.

Okay. He owes a little over six thousand dollars on his uh i have a loan with his mother um so there's zero interest in that for about 33 there's interest tiffany there's interest all right that's the highest interest loan you can have how much is that loan uh thirty3,300. Okay, we're paying that off. It might as well be $3.3 million. And then $4,000 for the birth of my child. Okay.

And $2,000 in credit card debt. So I believe that equals right around $21,000 or so. Okay, I'm with it. All right. And we have $28,000 in our savings. Oh, fantastic. Okay. Hold on, Jade.

Before you go in, can I just say one thing, Catherine? I'm going to turn you over to Jade because she's the expert here. I really want... How long have you and your husband been married? We just had our first year anniversary in September. We've been together for five years. Okay. So I'll give you a little bit of a pass until the end of the day. Okay. I want you and your husband after this phone call to be highly intentional about using the word ours and we. Okay. Not his, mine, hers. This is ours. It's called a vocab rehab. Oh, I like that. Vocab

rehab. And here's the language here matters because resentment builds out of the, they did this. Okay. When we did this, then we're going to solve it. Cool. But resentment is, he did this to me. He took all these student loans out even though he's got a job and he's making a bunch of money. He took all these loans out and it makes me scared and right, instead of nope, I married him. I love

him. We made a human together. We owe this money. We are going to pay this off. See the difference? Absolutely. Totally. Okay. Alright. Same team. One team, one dream. Oh off. See the difference? Absolutely. Totally. Okay. All right. Same team. One team, one dream. Oh, Todd. There you go.

All right. Here we go. Okay. So you have some money in savings, which is great. $28,000. Let's spend it. Like, let's spend it paying off some of this debt. Specifically, mama-in-law.

We're going to get that off the... Today. Today. So here's what I want you to do today. And then I'm going to tell you what I'd i want you to do today and then i'm gonna tell you what i'd like for you to do then i want you to tell me your objections to it and then i'll smooth it out for you number one we're listing the debts from smallest to largest that's called a debt snowball uh you list them from smallest to largest and you make minimum payments on

everything but with extra money you put it towards the smallest debt and in this case you have lots of extra money lying around called savings because the way we teach, the first step in getting your finances together is to just put $1,000 aside. We call that baby step one. And you've got that. And then the next step is to pay off your debt using the debt snowball method,

which we're about to do right here. So if we keep $1,000 aside, that leaves you with 27,000 that you can knock out this debt. And you basically listed it for me um largest to smallest so i've got it written here smallest to largest so let's pay off that credit card that's 2 000 this is what you're doing like today paying off that credit card that's 2 000 then you're going to come in here and you're going to pay off mom-in-law which is 3 300 then after that you're going to come over and pay that deductible and get it clear that out and you're done to come over and pay that deductible and get it,

clear that out, and you're done with baby. And then you can clear out these cars, pay off both cars. That's crazy. How much peace does that give you? It gives me peace, but I'm not going to lie. I get worried about only having $1,000 with a new baby. I just, I get, I have a lot of fear when it comes to finances. I grew up very poor and my husband didn't necessarily grow up the same way. So he doesn't have any anxiety when it comes to finances. And I'm like a total worrywart.

Do you know what's scarier though? What if something comes up? And that's what I'm trying to help you with. If something comes up and you have no debt, then nothing's popping, like nothing's coming up. But if something comes up and you have lots of debt, then you're screwed. Because here's the thing, something comes up,

let's assume the worst, because you're like, oh, we have a baby. What's the worst that could happen? You lose your jobs. $28, dollars is not going to go very far when you've got credit cards a deductible mom to pay back two cars that you're paying that's called stress but the moment that you pay off that debt think about how much money is going to be back in your hands because you're not making payments you're going to stack up twenty eight thousand dollars lickety split and then when the big bad wolf comes to blow your house down you're going to have no debt and twenty eight thousand dollars yeah so

this is a short term this is you kind of having that short-term freak out just to get your your cards in order you should you should feel Yeah. It's a thousand bucks. The space between you and calamity is very, very thin. Yeah. It's supposed to feel that way. That's the fire that you're going to run through the rest of this student loan mess with and be done forever. Okay. So that you're free. Yeah. Now, I grew up without a lot either. Okay. Okay. My dad worked really hard and real, real, real hard and things were really tight. And for a season I put security in two things, stuff and what I would call a pretend pocket of money. And that's what you've done. Yeah. You got a,

you got a house that you didn't have growing up. You got a husband with a job that you didn't have growing up. You got two cars you didn't have growing up. You got a husband with a job that you didn't have growing up. You got two cars you didn't have growing up. And you've got this magical little pot of money that feels like it's yours. It is not yours. You've already spent it. You spent it on a baby. You spent it on two cars. It's not yours. Just go ahead and give it away. It's fake. Yeah, you're right. Now, what I'm going to tell you is peace on the other side, when you don't owe anybody anything and nobody can take anything from you. Yeah. That's a peace that those who struggled with less than growing up, they don't understand

it until they get there, dude. And it's magic. Totally. How much do you and your husband make together? So I stay at home with our son and he brings and he works full time and he makes about $55,000. Okay. A year. Cool. And are you guys living on a budget?

Yes. So we just did our budget this month and we're really trying to buckle down on it. We're not big spenders on, we don't do a lot of extras. I think the most where if we are spending is i tend to food hoard a little bit me too okay me too me too same team i buy more than what we need in groceries okay so here's the thing uh you know you've got the money to clear out all these little ankle biter debts and you've even got you know you'll have three or 4,000, 5,000 or so that you can throw onto the student loan. But where it's really going to require you buckling down and jumping into that mindset that John just talked about is when it comes to the student loan, because the student loan is 50, you know, by the time you pay down a little of it, it's going to be 55 and you earn 55. So yeah. What kind of degree did he get? He has his degree in early childhood education, his bachelor's.

Is he a teacher? He doesn't know. He actually works for a zoo. Okay, here's the deal. He's going to have to get a second and probably a third job making an additional $25 25 grand a year. And you might need to pick up some work that you can do at home. That's what I was going to bring up. So he also is a licensed tattoo artist.

So he was working two jobs when we lived back in Connecticut. And now he is looking to get licensed in Tennessee and also work. Look, he needs whatever he can do to bring in some money. I always say, do whatever you can. And that includes you, too. He's not the only one that can work extra. You've got some time in your day where you can pick up some extra cash. This is The Ramsey Show.

You are listening to The Ramsey Show. I am Jade Warshaw, your your host joined by Dr. John Deloney your other host author of building a non-anxious life John such a great book one of my favorites and uh hey if you love listening to the Ramsey show do us a favor and consider uh liking it subscribing it and definitely sharing it uh Whatever platform you like listening to the show, whether it's YouTube, whether it's on your favorite podcast app, just share it with somebody. When you do that, it helps us in so many ways. It boosts us up in the algorithms. And so a lot of other people are able to see the shows there as well. So do that for us. It's absolutely free.

And we would be oh so grateful and oh so appreciative of you for doing that so like share subscribe that is the ask in the meantime let's go to the phone lines we got elainey in south bend indiana what's going on hi um so my husband and i we make about 55 um at the end of the year and we're on baby step six. Um, but we're just trying to figure out what we can do to cut expenses or do something in order to pay off our house quicker. We just bought it in 2022. And so we're kind of on fire to pay it off, but we have two kids and then another one on the way. How much is the mortgage? What do you owe? Mortgage, with everything included, like interest and everything like that is like $12,500. Okay. What's the payoff? When do we pay it off? We're not wanting to pay it off.

What do you owe on it? Like what do you owe on the loan? Oh you owe on the oh oh sorry we owe like 142 i want to say cool cool cool so what we have found is that when people walk through the baby steps most people are able to pay off their mortgage within seven to ten years is what we find um that's if they've you know walked our steps they're on that 15 year fixed rate mortgage they're going through it So it's safe to assume that that's probably going to be you and in that case It looks a lot like intentionality a lot more so than it looks like. Okay, we're getting you know Super intense gazelle intense is the phrase we use here Um, you don't necessarily have to be like that on baby step six

So you and your husband really need to sit down and decide, okay, what are we willing to do here? Is it, you know, what are we willing to sacrifice in order to find those extra payments? And what are we shooting for? Are we looking to double, double it? Are we looking to triple it? Like, have you guys said what it is that you're looking to do? Yeah.

So we wanted to be debt free before I turned 30. So I turned 30 January of 2030. But we got a 30-year mortgage. So that's where kind of the funkiness comes on, is that with $55,000 and a $1,200 mortgage. Hey, why'd you get a 30-year? I'm going to put you on the fire for a minute because you've been walking the steps.

Yeah, I know. We weren't smart. Honestly, the reality is we bought a house we absolutely fell in love with. We knew we wanted a lot of kids. We're going to have three kids under the age of three. And we bought a house that we couldn't afford. So we did a 30. Listen, Lainey, good for you for just going ahead and calling that out because so many people face that and they act like they had

no choice in the matter. And I love that you just owned it and said, hey, we made a choice. It wasn't the best choice and we did it out of emotion. So many people can relate to that. Now you're in it. So we do need to come up with a plan to get this paid off in the next six to seven years if you want to do it, you know, in the timeframe that you said, correct? Right. What does your husband do for a living? He's a teacher in a public school. Okay. That actually makes me happy. Here's why. He can work in the evenings and on Saturdays and Sundays and all summer. Right.

And it's not going to be fun. I, like Jade, we teach people, take your time in baby step six, slowly begin to love your life a little bit. You're not running for your life. I also will say in my private life, in my personal life, I hate with all my guts. I can't breathe when I owe somebody money. It's a problem from my childhood.

And so my wife and I sat down and said, okay, we can't go gazelle intense, but we're going to go over the top. What would that mean? What would we have to, and we didn't go on vacations and we didn't buy furniture. We didn't do a lot of stuff we drove the same used cars i remember dave looking at my truck and being like hey i know what i pay you and it was like i know man i'm i'm getting done with this stuff and so it's just a matter of making a plan and saying okay if we want to be done in three years or four years how much money would we have to make it's just a math problem and then one or

both of y'all has to go earn that money and I wish it was more complicated than that. It's just not. Well, just putting it into real numbers, partially real numbers, because I'm not using a mortgage calculator. I'm just off the top of my head. If your loan is $142,000 and you split that up, you said you want to have it done by that birthday that's six years if you split that up you've got to be paying at least $24,000 a year on this yeah and so you're making 55 so right off the bat you know if nothing changes ain't gonna make it we ain't gonna make it because living on $25,000 listen I don't know if it's possible with with the family you have I don't think that it is so to John's point somebody or both of you guys are going to have to figure out a way to bring more money into the household um have you guys had real

conversations about that we have the one hard thing is that you know we will have three kids under three at the end of October and so just thinking about like me starting a job just to leave it for multiple months to, you know, have a newborn again. And then he absolutely, absolutely, absolutely loves his job. And these are the things. Listen, I'm not taking any of that away from you. But what I am saying is you called in here and said, I want to pay off this mortgage in the next six to seven years so i won't be honest part well what i'm trying to what i want to lay out for you is you may not be able to do all of that but what you do get to decide is what you do get to do you might not get to pay off the mortgage in seven

years but you might get to stay at home with three kids under three. Or you may have three kids under three and you take a neighbor's kid and for an extra 500 bucks a month or whatever, $8,000 a month, whatever childcare costs these days. And I want you to keep in mind in two years, you're going to have three kids, five and under. And then a year after that, you're going to have three kids, six and under. And it may be that three years, the kids, five and under. Right. And then a year after that, you're going to have three kids, six and under. And it may be that three years, the kids six and under, and you don't owe anybody any money

because y'all just bit down on your mouthpiece and went in swinging. And your husband worked, he got done teaching and they delivered pizzas or delivered Uber. And then on Saturdays and Sundays, he drove and he missed his kids, but he had a long game in mind.

Or you extend your timeline and you're like, listen, gonna pay this thing off in 10 years and you don't sacrifice to that extent because if you choose to go that route you can but you really don't need to like I can't stress that enough go ahead right go ahead I was gonna say I just can't stress that enough you guys have worked hard to get to baby step six i don't know what your debt payoff journey was but here you are and if you want to go pedal to the metal you want to go balls to the wall that's fine but i don't want you to hear me say that you have to do that in this phase because well and like right now we're we're on baby step six and we're still only spending like $250 on groceries. Listen, I need y'all to live a little. Enjoy your life too. Loosen up the purse strings, mama. Yeah. At least go on a date every once in a while.

You know, you've got to, your income is on the tougher side for the size that your family's going to be. I'm not going to lie about that. And so you do have to be very meticulous about your budget, but I don't want you to feel like, and I'm not discarding what you said, John, if you guys decide, Hey, we're going to put our heads together and work, work, work, work, work. That's not for everybody. If you guys decide that I'm not mad, I'm surely not mad at you, but I really want to give you permission to go, okay, we made a mistake with this mortgage. that wasn't right let's at least let's at least agree to pay this like a 15 year right yeah and i feel like that's meeting right now yeah that's the goal right now is to pay it off like a 15 but then well the goal

was to pay it off like a 15 but then actually actually pay it off like a five. Cool. Okay. It's just a math problem. More realistic. Listen. Yeah, but now I feel like I'm trying to be more realistic and like, okay, maybe we do just need to stick at the 15. Absolutely.

And just be happy with the life that we're... Y'all are choosing. Loving. You can do what you want to do when it comes to that. Start with the 15 year. Start with paying it like a 15 year. See how it feels. And then if you feel a little better, listen, we'll try to pay it like a 10 year.

See how that feels. And then if you feel so inclined, you can push the pedal to the metal a little bit more. But again, it's about being intentional, not necessarily about being intense and baby step six. This is The Ramsey Show.