The Ramsey Show - App - We Are AmeriCANs, Not AmeriCAN'Ts! (Hour 3)

Episode Date: March 8, 2019

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Music Music Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions Broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225.

Travis is with us in Lynchburg, Virginia, starting off this hour. Hi, Travis. How are you? Good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Dave, I've got an interesting situation.

I kind of have certain dynamics in our family right now. We just recently had my daughter last year, so that will make us a family of five. My girlfriend has one son, and I have a daughter, and we share a mutual daughter. We're looking at vehicles right now. We're up against a big crossroads, if you will. Our vehicles are at failing point. Her car is 220,000 miles. I've got close to 200,000 on mine.

For the past two years, we've spent a lot on repair bills. And obviously, having three kids, I want her in reliable transportation as she does transport the kids most of the time. One requirement in my job is, you know, inclement weather. I have to be at work. Where I live at, we get a fair amount of snow in the winter months, so four-wheel drive would be necessary. And also I do a lot of work that involves towing on the side. So I was looking at, and I never was big on a diesel just because you have the very immature 20s, early 20s that have the diesels and they want to rice them out.

But I kind of had a turning point when I have modified my gas Suburban to be able to tow what I needed to tow. And I finally started looking at the numbers and it just doesn't add up. You know, I've been paying out so much to try and get a vehicle or the performance out of a vehicle that I need. I guess my main question is I'm looking at a diesel pickup now. It's used 55,000 miles. She will be needing a vehicle as well. We're looking at a reliable vehicle we're looking at how to pilot um and we have she has about eight thousand in cash i have about twenty

thousand in cash um so you know i'm trying to figure out if we should do a car loan if i should just stick it out with my vehicle and put all of my cash for hers and buy hers outright. What are your thoughts on that? All the data that we have that says people who build wealth avoid car payments. Okay. And so I'm never going to tell you to take out a car loan. I'm going to find some other way to get at this, okay? And there's not a she and I. There's a we. You're married.

So there's $28,000 to buy vehicles with in your accounts. Did I understand that right? Yes. Okay. And what are the two vehicles you're driving worth? Per car, maybe $1,500. I could probably get about five or six out of my Suburban. Okay.

So another $6,500. So we'll just call it six. And $28,000 is $34,000. You can't buy two $17,000 cars that'll do this? Yes, you can. That was not really a question. That was not really a question. You can buy a $17,000 car that will do just fine for her,

and you can buy a nice $17,000 four-wheel drive diesel pickup that will do everything you want it to do. I have looked into that, and some of the pickups within that price range are the modified, tuned, and I want to steer clear of that. Well, don't buy that. That's crap. That's somebody's revved the thing up and ragged it out. We don't want that. But you're telling me the only diesel pickups in America that are $17,000 have been modified and tuned.

Oh, bull. That's not true. There's lots of diesel pickups in America. Now, maybe there's not one in Lynchburg. I mean, you might have to drive up to Charleston or something. I don't know. You might have to drive over to Roanoke and pick it up. But, oh, well.

You know. But, yeah, there's four-wheel drive diesel pickups all over America that are just fine. That's a really nice truck for $17,000, really, when you get down to it. So what are you towing? A mini skid steer, a whole different thing. We've got a dump trailer. What do you make? What kind of income do you make as a result of towing?

In the summertime, it varies from $800. It's mainly for personal use, but I do... Wait a minute. Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. You make $500 to $800 in the summer? Yes. And you're going to buy a $30,000 truck to make $500? No. I hope not.

A portion of that, yeah, a portion of that would be for that. The other portion is just my main source of transportation. Well, I mean, a source of transportation is a gas four-wheel drive truck. Yeah. But all this other crap we're getting into is all about you making $500? Yeah. Well, it would be for personal use, too. I'm looking at eventually in the next couple of years, once I have myself positioned, to buy a home.

And it's not going to be any elaborate home. I would like a sweat equity home. And I know there's going to be instances where I'm going to need to be hauling material and equipment to the site. Okay. Well, the rare instances that you could do that, you can go rent a truck to do that or hire somebody else to do it instead of going, listen, you don't spend $17,000 more. You don't spend $30,000 over $17,000 in order to make $500

and avoid possibly towing something three years from now. Okay. That's complete rationalization for a pickup you really want that you don't really you can't mathematically justify that at all so if you want to buy a 17 000 truck that'll do all that stuff that's fine but don't spend more than 34 000 which is the value of all your cars plus the cash you have for the two cars don't do that don't do that. Don't do that. Do not go into debt. You completely are rationalizing all this. You totally got guy stuff-itis. I need to pull a dozer.

I need to pull a skid steer. And you're justifying stuff that mathematically doesn't even come close to working. Just pay somebody else to tow it around. You'd be better off. You'll come out way ahead. So anyway, that's what I would do. Pay cash for whatever you buy. If you'll avoid debt, you have control of your most powerful wealth building tool, which is your income. The average car payment in America is $506 right now. If you invest $506 from age 30 to age 60, you'll have $5.8 million in your Roth IRA.

That's what car payments cost you. Avoid car payments like the plague. I will ride a bicycle before I have another car payment. Now, the good news is I'm blessed and I don't have to really worry about that, but I won't ever have another car payment. I can tell you that. And I haven't had one in 30 years. And it's one of the reasons that we've been able to build some wealth. One of the many things that you do in order to get to that. But you have to change your thinking about these things.

Hope that helps you. Thank you for the call. Open phones this hour as we talk about your life and your money. This is The Dave Ramsey Show at 888-825-5225. 5 5 2 2 5. Are high health care costs getting you down? Are you confused trying to navigate your options? Do you wish you could find an affordable, biblical solution to your health care costs? Based on New Testament principles, Christian Health Care Ministries, or CHM, helps Christian families, churches, and ministries join together as the body of Christ to share their major health care costs. Christian Health Care Ministries is the original health cost-sharing ministry.

A Better Business Bureau-accredited organization, CHM members share to pay each other's medical bills. It's not insurance. It's Christians financially and spiritually supporting each other. It's what Christian Healthcare Ministries has done for over 35 years, and our members have shared over $2.5 billion in medical bills. To learn more, visit chministries.org. That's chministries.org. Christian Healthcare Ministries is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. chministries.org. Wall Street Journal posted an article a couple months back that is very interesting. Why is it so cool to be gloomy? Has the percentage of the world's population that lives in extreme poverty almost doubled,

almost halved, or stayed the same over the past 20 years? When the Swedish statistician and public health expert Hans Rosling began asking people that question. He was astounded by their responses. Only 5% of Americans got the right answer. Now here's the question. Let me ask it again. Has extreme poverty worldwide been cut in half, doubled, or stayed the same in the last 20 years? What's the answer?

Well, the actual right answer is extreme poverty has been cut almost in half. Only 5% said that. Most people said it doubled. A chimpanzee would do better if he pointed out mischievously by picking an answer at random. So people are worse than ignorant. They believe they know many dire things about the world that are, in fact, untrue. Rosling published a magnificent book arguing against such reflexive pessimism. Factfulness, ten reasons we're wrong about the world and why things are better than you think they are.

Very interesting. People cling to pessimism about the state of the world. John Stuart Mill neatly summarized this tendency as far back as 1828. I've observed that not the man who hopes when others despair, but the man who despairs when others hope is admired by a large class of persons as a sage. It's cool to be gloomy. The persistence of pessimism about the planet requires some explanation beyond just the facts themselves. Bad news is more sudden than good news,

because good news is generally gradual. Therefore, bad news is more newsworthy. Battles, bombings, accidents, murders, storms, floods, scandals, disasters, tornadoes all tend to dominate the news. If it bleeds, it leads. By contrast, the gradual reduction in poverty in the world rarely makes a sudden splash. As Rosling put it, in the media, the newsworthy events exaggerate the unusual and put the

focus on swift changes. Another example of that, if you think about it, is the stock market. The stock market gradually has gone up 4x since the crash of 08. At the bottom of the stock market, the Dow was 6,300. It's 24,000. It's gone up 4X. Have you heard anybody reporting on that like America just won the Super Bowl? No.

But if you put money in your 401K through that period of time, if you put a million dollars in in 2008, 10 years later, you'd have $4 million. Four times the money. And yet when someone's, if you were to just generally publish and, you know, just generally ask people about the stock market, what do they do? They answer pessimistically because they always hear when it drops largest one day drop in history of this year it's all over the front page of everything you ever hear one largest one day increase as the opening line on the nightly news, never.

Never. Pessimism is cool. And bad news usually matters. Good news may not matter. People think in relative terms, not absolute terms, which means their critical thinking skills are screwed. As the world improves, people expand their definition of bad news. You know, if you think about the Black Plague,

you know, we do not have a situation anywhere in the world today where entire populations, 25% of the population, is dead and piled up in the streets due to disease. We do not have that as a worldwide epidemic. I mean, you think about polio, you think about the number of people that died before simple antibiotics and penicillin, but nobody talks about that. Everybody's like, zika what happened to zika by the way where'd he go i mean we went through a period of time all my daughters were just completely freaked out that zika might invade tennessee it's gone did anybody report that it was gone? The CDC no longer has any warnings on Zika. Remember Zika?

Deformed babies everywhere, you remember that? Mosquitoes will kill you, mosquitoes will kill your kids. Remember? I was just, I mean, I'm not saying it wasn't real, but no one noticed when it disappeared. Because we tend to be, in the human race, gloomy, pessimistic. Too many people are a glass half empty instead of a glass half full. And so you really have to fight against that to do proper analysis,

proper critical thinking skills about policy issues, but also just about your personal finance, about policy issues, but also just about your personal finance, about your job. Many people make wrong financial decisions because they have a persistent worry that they're going to get laid off and never have been. That the economy is going to crash, so I'm going to buy gold bars, which is really stupid, by the way. Or the American currency is going to fail, so I'm going to put my grandfather's inheritance that he worked his whole life for in Bitcoin, which if you look up stupid in the dictionary, you'll see your picture.

Really? You have to make these sets of gloomy doomsday assumptions in order to make these moves. Well, you really can't get ahead out there. The little guy, I mean, maybe years ago in America you could have got ahead, but the little guy can't get ahead. And yet the research that we just did on millionaires here with Chris Hogan and our research team shows that 79% of our, the largest study of millionaires ever done, 79% of millionaires in America inherited nothing. 5% inherited less than 100,000, which mathematically means they did not become millionaires.

Because, matter of fact, another 5% inherited less than 200,000, which mathematically means they did not become millionaires because, matter of fact, another 5% inherited less than 200,000, and most of those inheritance were after they already had a million-dollar net worth because the average millionaire that we talked to had a $2.8 million net worth, by the way, in the 10,000 that we studied. So here's the thing. Nine out of 10, 89% of millionaires did not become wealthy because of an inheritance. Ten percent of them did inherit some money. Ninety-seven percent of them say they believe they control their own destinies.

When we interviewed the public, 62% said they believe they control their own destinies. 70% of millionaires set aside some of their income every month to be given to others. It's hard to be generous when you're gloomy. Gloomy will make you selfish because you have to hold on to it. You have to hoard it because bad times are coming. When you live a life of abundance instead of scarcity, generosity is a lot easier. Changes everything.

Well, you have to. You have to be a doctor to be a millionaire. You have to be an NFL player to be a millionaire. No, the top three jobs were engineer, accountant, and teacher among America's millionaires. This is all in the book Everyday Millionaires, number one bestseller by Chris Hogan. 140 statistics in there. It is not a research paper. It's an inspiring, inspiring book. And you'll enjoy it because it'll tell you that there's no need to be gloomy.

The American dream is not dead. Did you hear me? I've statistically proven it. The American dream is alive and well. We are Americans, not Americans. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. Thank you for joining us. Tammy is with us in Idaho. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show, Tammy.

Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? Okay. So my husband and I are in our 40s, and we have everything paid off except for our house and cash flowing our girls' college. And the market is super hot right now in the Coeur d'Alene area. And so we can walk away with about $160, $170 if we sold our house.

But the problem is, where do we go and how long should we rent for? So we make probably anywhere from $120 to $130 a year. So I'm wondering, do you take that money and rent so that eventually we can be debt-free or just stay put and pay off our house? Just stay put and pay off your house. Enjoy the ride. Enjoy the ride. You're investing.

You've got money tied up in the market that's going up. Coeur d'Alene's a wonderful market. It's got a little sniff of a resort market to it, so it's a little more volatile than the typical market. When it goes down, it goes down fast. When it goes up, it goes up fast, right? Right, and that's what we're experiencing. We thought, should we cash out?

Not unless you're going to leave the area. Okay, because that was our problem, because everything we're looking at now doesn't... It's not as good as what we're in, but then we think, yeah, it's more than we can make in a year. Yeah. But the thing is, you know, you're building wealth. It's an investment. It's going to go on up and go on up and go on up.

If you don't like the house or you're leaving the area, then I would consider selling it i would not try to cash out and then turn around and buy or rent in the same exact area because the rental prices reflect the increased market too it does in fact it would be almost um probably the same or a little bit more than what our house payments are because we have such a excellent interest rate exactly no. No, I'm sitting tight. All right. Well, thank you. That was my question that I had for a long time.

So that answers that. Thank you so much. Thank you for calling. Ted is in Los Angeles. Hi, Ted. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call.

Sure. What's up? Hey, I got a question about retirement. I'm looking at possibly doing that this year. And I have two options as far as my pension. I can either take a $60,000 a year pension with the feature of 75% to my spouse if I pre-decease her, or I can take it as a lump sum for $842,000. And I'm just kind of wondering what you think about those two options. Okay.

Wait a minute. Whoa. $842,000. There it is. Okay, that's right. Well, you're making 7% on your money. 60 is a percentage of $842,42, 7%. That equates to 7%. Yep.

And so were you to invest it and make 10, you'd have more money coming in. Oh, and by the way, when you die, the pension dies with, well, in your case, you've got a survivor. When your wife and you both die, it dies with you, right? That's correct, yeah. Okay. you both die it dies with you right that's correct yeah okay but if you put 842 000 in there and it slowly grows because you're not even pulling off all the income probably um you know you got a million dollars and when you both die guess what there's still a million dollars there okay so you're gonna make more while you're alive if you roll it to an ira in good mutual funds

and you're gonna make more when you're you're going to make more when you're dead. I see. A million dollars more when you're dead? $10,000, $20,000, $30,000 more a year while you're alive. Okay. Excellent. So what I would do is get in touch with one of our SmartVestor pros. Click SmartVestor at DaveRamsey.com.

It'll input in your info. It'll drop down a list, and you pick the one you want to sit down and talk to or two or three and interview them and decide which one you want to use. But you're looking for someone with the heart of a teacher. Take your time. There's no huge rush. You do a direct transfer rollover from your lump sum pension distribution directly into an IRA.

That way there's no taxes on it. And I spread my investing, my personal investing, across four types of growth stock mutual funds. Growth, growth in income, aggressive growth, and international. And I look for mutual funds that have a 5, 10, 20-year track record. I don't buy brand-new mutual funds. I want to see what their track record is, how they performed over a long period of time. In your case, you may pick out, since you got about a million bucks, we're pretty close, you may pick out more than one of each category even, two or three growth stock, two or three

aggressive growth, two or three international, and so on. And so you're spread out that way, and you're not all just in four funds. I don't know if I want $250,000 each in four funds or not. You can hit your break points and save on the commissions. There's all kinds of things you'll be able to learn when you sit down with them with that amount of money. Take your time. Learn about it.

No rush. But the principle is that if you made 10%, you'd make $84,000 a year instead of 60. And if you made 12%, you'd make another $16,000. You'd make about $100,000 a year off of that money instead of 60. Now, my mutual funds have averaged, not every year, but the average over a period of time up over 12% in those four categories. So I don't know if you quite double your money on your monthly income or your annual income. You may want to leave some of it in there and let it grow. And just, you know, maybe live off the 7%.

Just take the 60% and let some of it continue to grow. And that one account there may become a million dollars that way. So, good question. Well done, sir. Very well done. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Steven is in Jackson, Mississippi. Hi, Steven.

Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up? All right. So, I'm a 20-year-old college student, pre-nursing. I live at home.

I have no debt, and I have $7,000 in my savings account. Good for you. What would you do with that money? How are you paying for school? Right now, I'm on a scholarship where as long as I keep a 3.0, I get to go tuition-free. Excellent. How are you paying for nursing school? That's the thing.

So if I have a 3.5 GPA, by the end of my time at my community college, I'll get $7,000 to $8,000 a semester. I'm an Eagle Scout, so I have $6,000 to $8,000, depending on which school I go to, that's public. And my parents tell me that when I'm 22, there will be $22,000 from a burial fund that if I died early, and they have a college savings for me. Wonderful. Okay. Well, what I would do, here's the thing, Stephen.

You're entering a wonderful career field. Nurses have, there's always a shortage of nurses. There's always an opportunity to make more money, and it's a very good, solid field to be in. You're going to make good money based on what you've spent to get the degree. So you are investing in Stephen right now by going to school. Agreed? Yes, sir. And technically speaking, mathematically speaking, your best rate of return, if you had $7,000 and you invested it into Stephen to be a nurse, or you invested it into mutual funds, you'd

make more money investing it into Stephen. He's a better investment. I agree. Okay. Meaning that the nursing degree is going to pay more relative to what you spent on it than the mutual fund will. And so I don't recommend that people in college start investing until they graduate debt-free.

It sounds like you've got all this lined up, but there could be a bump in the road. There could be a hiccup. There could be a semester that's a problem. There could be a little bit off, and I would like for you to just hold this money as Stephen insurance until Stephen graduates and passes his bars. You pass your nursing bar and you're in the nursing field.

Now you've got a pile of money left over. Then let's start investing. Then let's start talking about the baby steps. But honestly, it's not just philosophically or emotionally bragging on you. It's a mathematical fact. You are a better investment with the career field you've chosen than a mutual fund is so let's make sure you get through school and that you get through debt-free so just leave it there it's

sitting it's right now until you need that you don't need the money today you might need it later it's steving stevens nursing degree insurance plan that's what we're going to call that account. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day, Proverbs 28 and 19. Those who work their land will have abundant food, but those who chase fantasies will have their fill of poverty. Estee Lauder said, I never dreamed about success. I worked for it.

That's pretty good. I've not heard that quote. Mike is in Salem, Oregon. Hey, Mike, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Pleasure talking with you. You too. What's up? Hey, so I have,

my wife and I are kind of confused about what we should do and what the right moves would be. And we have $9,400 in car and we have an idiotic move that we did in our teenage years with $33,000 in student loans. So roughly $43,000 in debt. I love my job and I have room to move up. I just don't have, I can't get out of my debt fast enough working my job,

even with my side business that I, or my side hobby that I'm trying to do. I want to sell my house, or I live in a manufactured home right now, and I can sell it in April, and my realtor is saying that I can get about $210,000 for it, and I owe $128,000. So my gains would be about $82,000. But after realtor fees and all that other stuff that gets pulled out of it, I'm not going to have a whole lot of money. Well, I'll have enough money to get out of debt and maybe start my emergency fund.

But where do I, I can rent my grandma's little shack that she's got for a little, for cheap. But we, it's too small for my wife and I and my kid. And we just, we don't know how long we should stay there. And if it would be a smart move for us to go ahead and do that. Yeah, okay. So the manufactured home is sitting on land? No, it's sitting in an HOA, and that's what scares me, is I'm scared for it to start dropping in value right now.

Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Okay, you have a 200, okay, manufactured home means a lot of different things. Okay? You do not have a $200,000 double-wide. Right? I actually do. My double-wide comes, I live in an HOA, but we own the land. Okay, so if the double-wide was not sitting on the dirt, what's the dirt worth? The dirt, I have no idea.

Basically, my neighbor, I can spit out my front window and hit. I got that you're in, but here's the thing. What I'm trying to figure out is this is a double wide. It was rolled in on wheels and sat on a foundation? No, it was rolled in on wheels and set on a foundation you know it was it's just uh sitting on blocks but yeah it it did come in on wheels okay all right so it that item is going down in value so something here has value because a two hundred Because a $200,000 double-wide is highly unusual. So I'm guessing that this HOA situation, that the actual lot it is sitting on, has pretty substantial value. And that's what I'm also assuming. And I was told in about 15, anywhere from 15.

Wait a minute. Did you buy the manufactured house and roll it in there? No, I actually bought everything in it. It was already set up and you bought it with the dirt? Yep, and all I had to do was move in. Is there anybody in there selling any lots? No, that whole area is already bought out. So this is a very popular area.

Yeah, it's pretty hot. Okay, here's what I'm trying to figure out. You've got to walk with me here, okay? Because a $70,000 double-wide is a pretty nice double-wide, like a very nice one, okay? A year later is worth $50,000, and a year later is worth $40,000, and a year later is worth $30,000, okay? Yet yours is worth $200,000. And so what I'm trying to figure out here is this dirt must have some serious value because that's why we tell people not to buy manufactured housing, double-wide trailers, because the trailer goes down in value.

And I think what's happened here is the dirt has gone up so rapidly in value that it's kind of covered over the stupidity of the actual double-wide, which goes down in value. In other words, the dirt's gone up faster than the double-wide's gone down. That's the only explanation for your price. And the area I live in, I live on the outskirts of Salem, so that area that I live in is actually really hot, and it's got historic value to it and stuff like that. So people are loving to move in there because it's owed to everything. Well, here's the thing.

I don't want to own something five years from now that has been going down in value, even if the dirt under it's going up in value. I would rather own a house on dirt where both of them are going up in value. That make sense? five years from now now today you've got all these other concerns and so uh but i don't think this necessarily means you have to move into your grandmother's shack you could rent something a little nicer than the shack and rebuild a down payment and then buy a house on dirt in the area that goes up in value so i'm selling the double wide and i'm not moving into the shack.

I am going to go rent something because the double-wide is going down in value even though the dirt under it is going up faster. Okay? I would rather buy dirt and a stick-built something that's going up in value long-term. So I'm going to go ahead and get out of these things that are fighting against things that are fighting against each other. Because there's no such thing as a trailer anywhere that goes up in value. Basically, mathematically it's a car you sleep in. There's no such thing. I ran into a trailer park in Malibu

for God's sake. You're looking out over the ocean just north of LA and it's a million dollars to live in a trailer there. But it has nothing to do with the trailer. It has to do with Malibu. And you're on the freaking beach in California. Okay. It's the dirt under it, or in this case, the sand under it. But, you know, that's the thing.

So the trailer itself is still a trailer. And so a mobile home. So I'm selling it for that reason because I want long-term for you to be in something that has a natural flow up, which is the dirt and the house are both increasing in value. And while we're at it, we'll get this debts paid off. And it does not mean you have to live in your grandmother's shack, but you go rent something a little nicer for your family, and you begin to rebuild your down payment as fast as you possibly can and buy something it

might take you two or three years to buy something and you may need to look at your career situation because you seem to think you're boxed in there it's what you uh you may want to decide do i really want to do this for the next 20 years is it really going to work for me and my family and then you can decide if you want to do that or not so good question thanks for the next 20 years is it really going to work for me and my family and then you can decide if you want to do that or not so good question thanks for the call i feel like i ran around the barn three times open phones at 888-825-5225 that's 888-825-5225 i've got a good friend of mine that is one of the largest mobile home manufacturers in the world. And every time he sees me, he goes, would you quit doing that on the radio? I said, well, if you can figure out a way for the things to go up in value, I'll start saying they go up in value.

But as long as they don't go up in value, I'm going to say they don't go up in value because we're going to tell the truth here. I like the guy, and he actually builds a really nice mobile home. I mean, they're beautiful, but it's amazing what they put on those things now. I mean, when I was a little kid, a mobile home was basically a tornado attractor, right? It's like a tornado has always hit mobile homes. You ever notice that? It's like there's a magnet for tornadoes. But now they're really, really nice, but they still don't go up in value.

They go down in value so you just have to look at stuff logically and think through that what listen always think always when you're doing a purchase or you're making a decision like that young man always think where do i want to be in 10 years and what's the best thing that takes me there and that's the how i made that decision with him just now where does he want to be in 10 years? He won't be living there. He doesn't want to be in debt. And he doesn't want to be living in his mother's shack, grandmother's shack.

So we have to take some steps to get us to where we want to be in 10 years. That puts us out of the Dave Ramsey Show and the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer and phone screener for The Dave Ramsey Show. If you would like to do your debt-free scream live on the show, make sure you visit DaveRamsey.com slash show and register. We would love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story.