The Ramsey Show - App - We Got Suckered Into a Fraudulent Timeshare Agreement! (Hour 3)

Episode Date: June 17, 2021

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Open phones here as we talk about America's largest legalized fraud this hour. Timeshares.

Oh, I just got a little throw up in my mouth when I said it. Timeshares. If you've been ripped off or locked in one of those rooms or someone you love has been ripped off by a timeshare company you know what that makes you typical most people have it's a horrible business they have absolutely zero value you know what a timeshare is worth when you try to sell it zero you actually have to pay to get rid of it and you go on vacation and you're so cheap that you thought you were going to beat them up and they say we'll give

you a free hotel room if you will just come to the sales presentation. And then they lock you in the sales presentation with no food, no water, and no bathroom breaks for six hours, literally does happen, until you surrender because your blood sugar is so low that your brain quits working and you buy one of the dumbest things on the planet called a timeshare. Even going to one of those meetings is a dumb thing. Signing up to get a free hotel room that isn't that great to start with in return for giving up six hours of your soul is a dumb thing. Don't do that.

That's like going over to the zoo and they say, We'll give you a year's pass if you go into the cage with the tiger and pet him for an hour. Oh, by the way, he's not eaten in three days. He's a greedy animal, and he will chew on your head. He will likely not allow you to pet him. You will die. And you go, oh, no, for a free pass to the zoo for a year, I'll try petting the tiger because I can pull it off.

And you go in, and you come out without your arm. And then you're shocked because the tiger ate your butt. Well, that's what happens. The AARP says the top ten scams that cost older Americans the most money. Number one way the elderly is scammed, romance scams. $83 million lost last year. Number seven out of the list of the 10. Scams that take money from the elderly, according to the AARP,

timeshares, $17.4 million. Number 10, trying to sell the timeshare, $12.5 million, which, by the way, together is $30 million that the elderly have been cost last year in late december diane burkhart sent a complaint to the fbi describing our 88 year old father agreed to purchase 250 000 worth of timeshare points over the course of 18 months he was diagnosed with dementia during this time he's now 89 and living in a nursing home. And the couple, of course, purchased the points from Diamond Resorts International, one of the grossest of all the timeshare companies,

who has just been purchased or is in agreement to be purchased by Hilton for $1.4 billion. Hilton, you're getting ready to screw up a really good brand by swallowing this rat. I know you think you're swallowing this rat, but you're going to get indigestion when you do, Hilton. It's going to cause you a problem. As a matter of fact, there are activist shareholders trying to prevent the sale because they do not want Hilton to buy Diamond Resorts. Her father, 87 at the time, enjoying a day trip to the beach with his wife

at a town about 30 miles from their house in Central California, and they came across a charming hotel. Unbeknownst to them, the property was Hotel California. No, I'm kidding. You know, you can leave, but you can't. You can come in, but you really can't leave. Been purchased by Diamond. Salespeople standing outside the property lured the old interested couple

into a timeshare sales pitch. She writes that they immediately regretted the purchase. A month after purchasing the first contract, my dad tried to end the agreement due to his wife's declining health and included a letter. Diamond turned him down, so he paid off the promissory note in full, believing that would be the end of it. It was only the beginning. Shortly thereafter, Diamond told them they needed to go to a meeting to learn how to use their points. The meeting turned out to be another lengthy sales pitch. $250,000 later, they owned a bunch of points to Diamond.

Oh, by the way, he had dementia. Turn it over to the FBI who's investigating. It's not the first time consumers have described possible elder abuse in the timeshare industry, which was reinventing its business model in recent years. Yeah, sales are down. Timeshares used to be tied to a specific property where people owned a partial deed and had the right to vacation for a set amount of days a year. But in recent years, the industry has instead switched over to the points concept,

which is kind of like those airline miles you get with your credit card you ever tried to use them dadgum near impossible so if you've been screwed over by the timeshare industry we want to hear from you this hour we're going to talk to real people we're going to talk to attorneys who are suing the timeshare industry we're going to continue to expose this fraud in America today. Diamond International being at the top of the list, Westgate along in there, and Wyndham, oh, Wyndham, you have done some nasty things to people. And we're going to be talking about all of you guys this hour at length. Things that actual real people are saying about you,

like the AARP or the FBI. These are initials that actually people think might matter when someone files a complaint against you people because you screw people for a living. A timeshare is one of the worst possible products out there because it has zero value. Zero. None. Nada. Horrible. With what you spend on a time you're gonna pay 22 000 for a week how

many times can you stay in a freaking hotel for 22 000 where is the math going did you people go get out unbelievable what grade did you graduate from but when you're sitting in the tiger cage and the tiger's going come here i won't eat you if you sign come you're sitting in the tiger cage and the tiger's going come here i won't eat you if you sign come here come here pet the tiger go into the tiger cage and pet the tiger he's not eating for three days they will tell you anything they will lie to you they will be mean to you they will be nice to you they will do anything to get you to give them your money for something that has absolutely no value. Zero, none, nada. No value.

So, timeshare people, we want to hear from you. The phone number is 888-825-5225. If you're in the scummy business and you want to debate me, call in. Come into the tiger cage. That would be good radio. Yeah. And maybe you don't like me. That's fine.

Come on. We'll talk. I don't like you either, so it's a fair trade. Yeah. You screw people for a living, you should stop it. Oh, my son's a timeshare salesman. Dave, you shouldn't talk nasty about him. Your son should get a job where he doesn't screw people for a living.

He's scum. Don't be scum anymore, and I won't call you scum. It's easy. Real easy. Don't rip people off, and you won't have me on your back. It's not a hard thing. Phone number here is 888-825-5225. I saw some recent financial statistics and there was some pretty troubling news.

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Go to Zander.com for quick online pricing or call 800-356-4282. This has to be a priority. If your family is in this situation, you need to get this done. so if you have a background in the timeshare industry or you have been ripped off by them or you want to talk about the business because a personal experience, we want to hear from you. The phone number is 888-825-5225. You can also email Kelly and put timeshare in the subject line and tell us a little bit about your story, and we'll get back in touch with you and put you on a future show on timeshares, because this won't be the only time we talk about Americaica's greatest legalized fraud so you can email kelly at dave on air at ramsey solutions.com dave on air at ramsey solutions.com put timeshare in the subject

line tell us a little bit about it and give us a place for kelly to get back in touch with you we're not going to tell you what to say but we just want to arrange for you to be on the air and tell your story to 22 million people. Yeah, you should. We want to hear from you. Dave on air at RamseySolutions.com. Ben is in Chicago. Hi, Ben. What happened with you?

Oh, I've had quite a journey with the timeshare industry and actually with you as well. I went to get my master's about seven years ago, and one of my professors made us study this book. You may have heard of it, Total Money Makeover. And so my wife and I actually began to live out those steps, very laser-focused, because our goal was to not have kids until we were debt-free. We accomplished that goal. And then once we had kids, our laser focus from fatigue or whatever, went away and had made a couple questionable choices. One of them happened in February. We hadn't taken a vacation, just her and I together for a long, long time. And so went down to Florida.

I'm naturally relatively frugal. And so got signed up for a timeshare presentation in hopes that we could see some free SeaWorld. So went down there and had a... You didn't even get a free night. You got tickets to SeaWorld. To Sea... Yep, exactly. Wow. Wow.

Exactly. So we went down there, and this is this past year, so February 11th we showed up. As far as the accompanies, that is fine. You know, nothing overly special, but it's fine. Did that for three days, and finally the timeshare presentation came around. It was early in the morning on Valentine's Day, Sunday morning. And so we went down there early, got pulled into a room, had a one-on-one experience with the salesperson.

And then they start asking you personal questions about yourself because they're trying to find what they can poke, what they can manipulate, right? What your soft spots are. And like I said, for me, it's my kids. And so they poked and prod until they found that. And basically the sales pitch was, well, you want to have your kids have a great experience, right? You want them to have regular vacations, right? You want them to grow closer to you. This is how you do it. You can do it in an affordable way. Since I do have a background with you in the past, but I hadn't recently been walking that line well, I knew timeshare was not ideal.

So I said, look, I don't want to be in a contract. I don't want to pay an XX amount. It's got to be a deal. And so he said, well, we are the only timeshare company that offers a full buyback guarantee. So if you don't like it, whenever this happens, you sell it back. It will be market retail. You're going to have at least as much as you paid for it, if not more. And so that was appealing, right? It's a get-out-of-jail-free card if we hated it. And he gave us points. And so he said, your stay is 40,000 points. And I said, well, what is that worth, right?

It means nothing until you have some time on it. He said, for the stay here in Silver Lake Resort, which is in Kissimmee, Florida. He said, that was worth three weeks. And I said, okay, did the math. We did a down payment of 5,000, 0% interest for the rest of it, which is 10,000 total. I'd done the math, obviously on that three weeks in Orlando. And they said, or anywhere else. It was a fairly reasonable deal. And so we walked out, we felt pretty comfortable with it. But everything we found out very quickly was fraudulent. So 11 days out, which of course, is one day after the contract, they finally give us the login information. No points there.

I call in and they say, well, you just got to wait. We'll insert the points for you. And the process goes on. And finally in April and May, we have access to our points. And so I try to punch them in to test their value because I'm starting to feel pretty concerned about this at this point in time. And I realized that 40,000, and not only just 40,000, but they gave us a bonus, 12,000 points on top. Wasn't worth three weeks. In fact, it wasn't even worth one week of a stay at this resort. And so I called back in and said, this is a fraudulent sales practices. I don't want to be a part of this. And so I'm going to evoke the buyback guarantee. And they said, we don't offer such a thing.

So of course, this drove me through all sorts of things, including reading every word of the contract. And of course, built into the contract is this tiny little phrase, we are not held accountable to anything the salesman says. And so we went through that process, tried to get a hold of them back and forth, no response, no response, no response, no response. Right in the middle of that, of course, in my stress and distress, you did this hour-long timeshare presentation talk, which made me feel much, much worse about the situation. I'm sorry. No, it's okay. It was just the reality, right?

It was truth. Yeah. Truth doesn't always feel good. So which company is this? The resort is called Silver Lake Resorts in Kiss kissimmee florida i don't know the affiliation i know you've talked about some of these bigger entities but i i'm not entirely sure of whatever their affiliation is but uh since then i've contacted the better business bureau of course all they do is say too bad bad. We've contacted them. They

refuse to work with you. They refuse to work with you. They refuse to work with you. We'll just put a bad review on their page, which doesn't help me at all. So right now I'm stuck with something I don't want based on two aggressive lies. When I finally got ahold of somebody, of course, they said, well, we can't do anything for you. And the guy who sold that to you of course doesn't work here anymore of course which i which i'm assuming is just a a quick yeah well no they don't because they know they're screwing people and they go get a job where they don't have to do that anymore because most people have somewhat of a soul, you know? Most people do. So I'm trying to look up Silver Oak on Google while we're doing this. James, you keep poking around.

It looks like it's independent. RCI Resort Directory. I don't know what RCI is, but, yeah. But anyway, we know that that's one. But this is standard. I mean, this is standard for all. This story could have been logged under any of the companies that are out there because this is exactly what happens with every one of them. But this one has whatever RCI is.

Apparently, they're affiliated with that. So very interesting. Wow. I'm so sorry, Ben. Sorry you got screwed. But thank you for telling the story because that lets people know that this really happens all the time. So really what we're saying is you can tell a timeshare salesman is lying if his mouth is moving. That's what you experienced.

That's accurate. And, you know, after your long presentation about this, I was really embarrassed. And I didn't want to tell anyone about it. But I thought, you know what? Scripture is filled with these guys who make mistakes, and it's from their mistakes that we actually grow from it. So I thought, you know what? I'm embarrassed about this.

I don't want to tell people about this. I don't want to tell my neighbor about this. But people need to know. I appreciate you pushing through that. When I went broke and lost everything, I was embarrassed to tell anybody about it for a long time. And now I've helped a whole lot of people because I told the story. So all it makes you if you got messed over by these people is human, dude. You got nothing to be embarrassed about.

They lied to you. As you said, it was a fraudulent transaction. And now we just let the world know. Silver Lake Resorts, Kissimmee, Florida. Gosh, I wouldn't want to be them this week, would you? Can you imagine what happened when I just said that over the radio

with 22 million listeners? Can you imagine working there tomorrow? The largest legalized fraud in America today, the timeshare industry. Billions upon billions upon billions of dollars. One of the largest Diamond International being sold right now to Hilton for $1.4 billion. Mike Flasky, the CEO, Mikey, I call him. Mikey is obviously as the CEO is holding a bunch of stock in his hand that's getting ready to be converted to Hilton stock. This guy's getting ready to get richer than he already is with this sale to Hilton.

Activist investors are fighting the Hilton. Stockholders of Hilton are fighting against this sale, saying it's bad for Hilton. Well, guess what? It is. When you swallow a whole wheelbarrow load of rats, you know what you're going to get, Hilton? Indigestion. Your brand is going to get screwed up because you're associated with people screwing people. Westgate.

Oh, this bunch. Westgate Resorts, according to this article, Westgate Resorts class action alleges high-pressure sales tactics, uses high-pressure schemes to convince prospective purchasers into buying vacation timeshare program according to legal news. A recent class action lawsuit alleges Westgate failed to adequately disclose material and legally required information to prospective buyers and also doesn't provide adequate access to their timeshares. There it is again. In addition, the timeshare owners claim Westgate fails to adequately train and supervise its sales agents

and does not provide them with disclosures to give to prospective customers and encourages them to lie to customers with high-pressure sales pitches. Westgate also allegedly relies on its closing agents to provide written disclosures and provides them with a closing portfolio that contains a secret pocket where the closing officers can conceal legally required disclosures about the consumer's rights, including their right to rescind the purchase. Scummy! Scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy, scummy! Randy's in Madison, Wisconsin.

Got a timeshare story. What's up, Randy? Hey, Dave. My story's not unique, probably, to anything that you guys have already discussed or anything, but I just kind of wanted to share and just kind of warn people about what you're talking about. And it kind of relates to what you say about credit cards. You're just playing with snakes. And if you get in that snake pit with them, eventually you're going to get bit. So don't even give them the opportunity to bite you because that's what they're really trying to do is lure you into that pit and fill you full of their venom it's like when we went and did it i think they really truly try to prey

on poor people the most because if you if you got money you you're really not there trying to seek a good deal on a vacation you just go on vacation you get the hotel room you book you get the flights and you go but they tried who i think prey on the people that they're trying to reel in by, well, we can sell them this great deal, even though they might not be able to afford it, be the only way they can go on vacation. What happened to you? Well, in our scenario, it was, we were just newly married and we were thinking about, you know, vacations, you know,ations you know heck we got 40 50 years hopefully together and what do we want to do for vacations you know and we got this

thing in the mail you know say come join us you know basically feed you for the you know give you that free meal and uh lure you into a casino night where you could win gifts and uh and then they they lure you into the room by themselves and they give you the sales pitch and uh they they lure you into the room by themselves, and they give you the sales pitch. And they all, you know, just like everyone else has said, the pressure, the tactics that they use, the promises they give you. But even so more, the stuff that they don't tell you. We weren't told about numerous things, whether it be the RCA subscription that you had to use to buy every year, whether it was the exchange fee that you had to pay if you wanted to go outside your week, you know, and we borrowed money, you know, and like you say, you know,

the borrower's slave to the lender. I walked out of that meeting that night with them guys, and, you know, they bring you in with the one guy, and then, you know, they got the guy in the back who can make you a better deal. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah. And I walked out of there that night, me and my wife, sick to our stomach. As soon as we got in the car and left that, after we signed on the dotted line, we were sick to our stomach.

What did we just do? Well, little did we know, we had a right of rescission. We knew nothing about that because we weren't educated in it. They didn't let us in on any of that, you know, that we could have got out of it, you know, when we got home the next day. But we were reeled in and with all the promises. Which company? Well, Dave, I don't know who that was.

It was up at the Wisconsin Dells outside of Madison. And it was at Christmas Mountain Village is the name of the resort. But it might have been like Winter Tree or Winter Green or something like that. Blue Green. I can't really remember. Blue Green. Oh, that? Okay.

That could have been what it was. Probably. And, I mean, I know people, Dave, that own three of these things, and they don't ever leave their yard. Can you imagine that? I mean, you're talking $4,000 or $5,000 and you're not even going on vacation, but you own three of them. Boy, I talk about a sucker once, sucker twice. So we were blessed, Dave.

Unlike the gentleman that you just had on before me in Wisconsin, we contacted the Better Business bureau and the consumer protection agency and they actually filed a class action lawsuit on our behalf and we we did not pay a dime to get out of it and they won the lawsuit and they agreed to let us out of the deal and give us our money back wow praise god yeah you Yeah, you got out with your skin. But other than that, it's the same story. It's the same story. I mean, don't even give them the opportunity.

Just don't go in the tiger cage. Don't pet the tiger. You think you're stronger than the tiger, but when you get in the cage, you realize you're not. Yeah, don't pet the tiger. Why pet the tiger? Just for a pass to the zoo. It's silly. That's what everybody does what everybody does hey man thanks for the call i appreciate you sharing that hey if you've got a timeshare story call us at 888-825-5225 or email me at dave on air

at ramsey solutions.com dave on air at ramsey solutions.com put timeshare in the subject line tell kelly who'd be picking up those emails a little bit about what's going on and how to get in touch with you. We certainly won't tell you what to say, but we will schedule you to be on the air. Scott Montgomery is an attorney who frequently sues the timeshare industry. He's in Springfield, Missouri. We thought we'd have Scott on because he's got some expertise in this area. How are you, Scott? I'm great, Dave. How are you? I am better than I deserve, sir. And that's confirmed by Mike Flasky. Wow. So tell me, he thinks I deserve a lot worse, in other words. so tell me your experience with this industry well back in 2018 we filed

lawsuits here in missouri uh near branson missouri which is a beautiful part of the country but certainly a cesspool of timeshare activity so we were hired by dozens of defrauded, mostly elderly timeshare owners, and we filed lawsuits on their behalf. And in retaliation for that, Wyndham and Blue Green sued me personally down in Florida, where I have never practiced law, and I'm still mired in those lawsuits today. The discovery seems to be never-ending. And, you know, these lawsuits against attorneys like me who represent defrauded timeshare owners, they're clearly designed to kill access to the courts for these defrauded owners.

It's really horrible. One of the timeshare pushers' attorneys actually said in court that their goal is to put fake law firms out of business. They call mine a fake law firm. We're a small law firm of four attorneys here in the Missouri Ozarks, but we're far from a fake law firm, and we've filed lots of lawsuits against the timeshare industry. In the suit that they filed against us down in Florida, they actually complain that we have not sued them enough. So we have tried to oblige them and sue them some more. That's fabulous.

Can you hang with me through this break, Scott? I sure can, Dave. Okay, I'll be right back with you. I want to hear the rest of this. So we oblige them and suit them some more. I like this guy. This is fun. We're talking about timeshares this hour. If you want to join the discussion, the phone number is 888-8252-5. Our scripture today, Psalm 62 and 5,

Let all that I am wait quietly before God, for my hope is in Him. Amelia Earhart said, Decide whether or not the goal is worth the risks involved. If it is, stop worrying. Well, our goal today is to continue to expose and continue to discuss the timeshare industry. The American Association of Whatever having to do with the timeshare business is called ARDA, and they funded a report that says that 87% of timeshare owners

rate their timeshare ownership as good or excellent, funded by the timeshare industry. However, University of Central Florida did a study that says just the opposite. 85% of timeshare owners who go to contract regret their purchase. How many businesses do 85% of their customers think they suck? And they stay open. How many? Unbelievable. All right, we're talking with an attorney in Missouri, Scott Montgomery,

who was on behalf of elderly people ripped off in the Ozarks with timeshares and sued several companies. Their answer was to sue him, to sue the attorney. And since they're a small law firm, to go ahead and just bury them in discovery requests, buckets and bailings of discovery requests, to see if they can put these attorneys out of business. Their goal is to put these attorneys that sue them out of business by countersuing them or suing them and burying them. Scott, that's what you said right absolutely dave that's what's happening now christian wall was on here a few weeks ago another attorney who's representing attorneys who have been sued and is he representing you too

yes he is dave oh good good sharp very good so you guys are kind of banding together to fight back. We are, absolutely. We're trying to gather together good litigators from around the country to combat this problem. And, you know, our firm, we represent almost 7,000 timeshare owners from around the country. And I would say that 100% of my thousands of clients think that the timeshare industry sucks and they hate their timeshare and regret their purchase tremendously yeah so that's an unofficial survey right there but fairly accurate yeah if you got if you hired an attorney to sue somebody you pretty much think they suck i think that that's 100 yeah i'll go with that that's fine so the cause of action from a legal perspective that you guys usually take if you're going to sue someone you can't just make up something to sue them about unless you're the timeshare business which they made up something to sue you about but you guys are finding actual

fraudulent processes that you're putting in the case i I assume. Absolutely, Dave. We sue for fraud and for negligent misrepresentation and for violations of State Merchandising Practices Act, which allows our clients to recover their damages along with their attorney's fees. But we've also started filing lawsuits based upon some more innovative causes of action, I think. One is for the charging of illegal document preparation fees. If you go to a closing at your timeshare sales presentation, you're probably going to be stuck with hundreds or thousands of dollars of illegal document preparation fees. That constitutes the unauthorized practice of law. That's a crime. A non-attorney cannot charge for document preparation fees. We're also seeing

the tactics where the timeshare pushing companies they charge their uh they charge the consumer for title insurance title insurance for these points you don't get title created if you don't get title how can you get title insurance it is certainly a mystery to me but they charge hundreds or thousands of dollars for title insurance for points that they created. It's just crazy. We have seen a large timeshare pusher charge thousands of dollars for a life insurance policy so that the consumer can be sure and pay off their debt to the timeshare company when they pass away. We've also filed suit for the unauthorized practice of realty. You know, these timeshares, they're an interest in real estate.

And the seller, the agent. Does not have a real estate license. Yeah. The guy who's sitting across the table from you at the timeshare sales presentation, they should have a realtor's license and they don't. So we're filing suit on, on the basis of all of those things. Yeah. And how often are you getting them out these days? Well, that's a, that's a great question.

It depends on the individual circumstances of the individual case. There are hundreds of timeshare pushers in the country. But you said you had 7,000 cases underway, right? We have almost 7,000 clients currently or who we have helped to obtain a release in the past. We've helped thousands of people obtain a release. Unfortunately, it is much easier for you to get out of your timeshare contract if you are what is known in the industry as paid in full. If you've paid off your timeshare mortgage, and that's a thing, most timeshare purchases are financed. If you've paid off your mortgage and you've paid your

annual maintenance fees, which are often $1,500 for something you can't use, if you're paid in full, we can often negotiate a release for you from the timeshare pushing company yeah if you still have if you still have a mortgage it's much more difficult they don't want to give up that money they've already but if they already got your money they're more likely to let you go yeah that makes sense oh my gosh hey scott we appreciate you sharing with us today man that's incredible i'm so sorry they're going after you personally that's just ridiculous just ridiculous. But it's par for the course for these guys. They think they have enough money to just bury anybody who takes them on. And, you know, now they've met somebody that's not going to happen.

James is with us. James is in Waco, Texas. Hey, James, how are you? I'm doing fine, Dave. How are you? Good. Give me a quick version of your timeshare mess. Okay, basically, back in March of 99, my wife and I went on a honeymoon in Las Vegas,

and we were hanging around the hotel, and a guy came up to us and was talking to us about a show that they were giving free tickets to that night if we wanted to come and listen to a presentation the next day. So we did that, and to make a long story short, we ended up listening to the presentation, and we purchased a timeshare phone, and we had the timeshare for about 15 years and only used them five times. What did you pay for it? it was uh 15 grand i think okay so you paid three thousand dollars per use yeah and so yeah and so uh was it worth that i mean did you no no no i mean, did you? No. No? No. I mean, what could you have bought a hotel room that was similar to that for? Oh, my goodness.

Probably $120 at the most back then anyway. Yeah, yeah. Per night, yeah. Okay. Yeah, per night, right. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

Amazing. Which company was this? It was Diamond. Diamond International. International, Diamond... Diamond International. International, yeah, Diamond International. Diamond Resorts, yeah. Yeah, they're big in Vegas. Diamond International.

Yeah, that's one of the biggest ones. Our times there, we've been in Las Vegas. It was a depot hotel, it was there. Okay. So what ended up happening at the end of the story? their story well basically uh we uh went to um uh branson for another vacation and and the hotel had the same guys there from diamond resorts they was pushing you know these town shares and i told the guy we were already a member of the time share so they looked us up and said hey you know you got under the old program. That's why you're having to pay all these maintenance fees.

But if you sign up for the new program, you don't have to pay the maintenance fees. And, of course, you know, we're already listening to your show and we're trying to figure out what to do about all that. Oh, my gosh. I'm sorry, James. So our answer is if you've been screwed and you complain about it, we'll sell you some more. What a business. 85 to 87% of your customers hate you and you still stay in business.

That's amazing. Well, maybe we can help with that. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of Ramsey advice in their life? Let them know about the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast.

It's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes. Check out the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts.