The Ramsey Show - App - We Were Hit With a Collections Bill That We Don't Owe (Hour 3)

Episode Date: July 5, 2021

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🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us, America. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

My co-host today, Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, best-selling author, and also the host of The Dr. John Deloney Show, an explodingly popular podcast by the Ramsey Network. Everything going up on that. So be sure you check out Dr. John Deloney's podcast. Everyone else in America is. If you haven't checked it, you're one of the few. So be sure and do that.

And you can participate in that show and call in on it. You can send an email in. Kelly will set you up to be a caller. Whatever you want to do, he calls and uh gets into people's situations with their relationships anything you can imagine education school and marriages and breakups and relationships and mental health issues and anything having to do with mental health and anxiety and boundaries and all that yeah yeah and we get into everything and we'll take those calls here today too the phone number triple eight eight 888-825-5225.

Asheville, North Carolina. Michael starts this hour. Hey, Michael, what's up? Hey, Dave, how are you? I've got my 9-year-old daughter with me here. Can you say hi? Hi. Hi.

We are very excited to be on your show. Thank you for taking our call. Well, we're honored to have you. Dr. John, I've got to say I love your show. Whenever I'm having a bad day, I just listen to that. It makes me realize my life is so much better than some of the calls that you get. I thought you were going to say your life's better than mine, and I was going to agree with you, but I appreciate you. So I had a quick question about 529 plans.

My wife and I are debt-free as of last year. We just started a 15-year mortgage. Income's around $115,000, looking to be at about $130,000 here later in the year. And we have about $225,000 in retirement. I've been going back and forth with my investor. I was telling him we were going to take your suggestion and put about 15% into retirement. And he says because we're behind, he was hoping we could do a little bit more. I know that's his job to do that. I was toying with anywhere between $500 and $600 for a 529 split between an 8 and a 10-year-old.

And I just wanted your advice on what you would do if you were in my situation. An 8 or a 10-year-old? What? I have two kids. One is 8 years old. Oh, an 8 and a 10 year what i i have two kids one is oh an eight and a 10 year old oh okay yeah okay all right um well if you get with one of our smart investor pros uh to get a second opinion they will have you put 15 into retirement and you can run a calculation out as to how much you need to put for each child to be able to hit the goal by the time they're 18 and have their the the vast majority or whatever portion. You say, you know, I want to have X number of dollars in that college fund by 18.

Then you can back that in at current rates of return on mutual funds with a SmartVestor Pro, and they can show you exactly what you need to put in there. What you're proposing is not bad at all. That's wonderful. I mean, that's $6,000 a year you're putting in not bad at all that's wonderful i mean that's six thousand dollars a year you're putting in 500 bucks a month uh obviously the older one would get a little more than the younger one because you've got a shorter time frame to get to a college fund and so you know it doesn't have to be a lot more because they're fairly close in age but

um but you know if you're going to do, are you going to do $500 total or $500 each? So the number is closer to about $600. I was thinking of putting a little bit more in for the older one and a little less for the younger one. Yeah, that's exactly what I'd do. Yeah. And, you know, I would do that, and I would be putting 15% of your income into retirement, and above that, anything else you can find, I'm going to put on the house, and let's get that house paid off.

And again, if you want a second opinion, just click SmartVestor at DaveRamsey.com, and you can get with one of the SmartVestor pros. The thing about the SmartVestor pros is they're going to always give you advices that's congruent with what you hear on this show. It's not going to be you're getting one set of advice from me, one set of advice from them, and then you don't know what to do. Right. It should be anyway.

We spend a lot of time, a lot of effort with them, making sure they have the heart of a teacher and that they know what we teach here so that you go to them and you get, you know, I want to do this Ramsey plan. Okay, the baby steps here is exactly what we're doing. And then you don't have this push and pull of, well, I wish you'd do more than that. You don't have that kind of stuff coming out of that. In the past, when I've sat down with a financial advisor, when they say this phrase, so what are your goals?

I always feel like I'm at a car dealership and they're saying, what can your payment be? And there's something about, I like going in and saying, we're going to do 15% of what you got, right? And then we're going to talk about where would you like to be and how can we fill that gap? But there's something that just feels oogie when somebody starts with, how much can I get you for versus, hey, let me teach you how this whole process works. Exactly. That's good. I like that. Terry's in Tri-Cities, Washington hi terry how are you hi dave thanks for taking my call sure what's up um i i want to know if i should start paying down my home i'm debt free except for my mortgage and um but the the glitch is my house is a manufactured home, but it's in a wonderful neighborhood

and a great location on a cul-de-sac without any backyard neighbors. And I, I really wanted to get into a stick home and I thought about it multiple times, but I thought, gosh, I'd end up paying $200 to $400 more a month on that, and right now I have $7,000 to $8,000 in emergency fund, and I make about $60,000 a year, and I pay for my house by... Sometimes the answer to a financial question is very easy. If you pan out a little bit and say, 15 years from today, what is this going to end me with? And so if you stay in this home, 15 years from today, you're going to have a mobile

home that is worth almost nothing because they will fully go down in value. Agreed? Yeah. Yeah, that's not good. That's not good. And 15 years from today, if you pay a little more for a stick-built home, you're going value. Agreed? Yeah. Yeah, that's not good. I agree. That's not good. And 15 years from today, if you pay a little more for a stick-built home, you're going to have something that's gone up

3 or 4x in value. Mm-hmm. So one is destroying wealth and one is building wealth. Uh-huh. And the comps on my house are now $245,000 five years later. So I thought, well, maybe I should take advantage of that.

Yep. Because it's not your house, it's your lot. Right. Well, yeah. The dirt is what's valuable. It is not the mobile home. Right. 100% of mobile homes go down in value.

Uh-huh. I'm going to inherit my mom's house hopefully later than sooner but and and i'm 61 right now so that was my other if you want to if you want to sit on that until that happens that's okay but you've got you know every day you own a mobile home it goes down in value that's what you have to think about so don't put more money into my mortgages about $840 a month. It doesn't matter. If you want to pay it off, that's okay. It's still going to go down in value. Right. Nothing wrong with getting rid of the debt on it, but it's still going to go down in value. Matter of fact, I probably would get it paid off, make it easier to sell.

You sell the lot, the mobile home together, and if you don't have a lien against it, it'll probably make the whole process easier. So that's not a bad thing. But don't hold this thing for 10 years. It's going down in value. If current times have shown us anything, it's that the least expected events can and will happen, and we have to deal with it. That's why everyone who has a family counting on them

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Gentlemen, how are you doing today? Thanks for having me. Absolutely. How can we help so a couple years ago um we had our second child and uh during all the prenatal appointments and everything um some things got screwed up um on their end and we got billed for a $1,400 doctor bill. And we went round and round between insurance and the doctor. That apparently never got settled because we just got hit with a collections agency for that $1,400. I talked to the lady at collections, tried to negotiate for a lower amount or something, and she said, no, we're not that kind of collections. You have to pay it all. So just looking for some guidance here.

I'm not that kind of girl. Yes, you are. Yes, you are that kind of girl. Oh, my gosh. What a load of crap. Okay. So have you gone back to the dock yet? Well, actually, we've since moved.

That was when we lived in Texas. It's been a couple years. I got phones there. Okay. You haven't called the doctor's office yet and go hey butts i'm gonna come i'm getting a bill from you people that was part of the rigmarole between you know hey why isn't insurance covering this and why are we getting a bill that was part of the whole rigmarole a couple years ago okay well let me let me let me kind of let's lay a foundation here all right sometimes including you

people get the idea that because insurance is supposed to pay something i don't legally owe it you do so you have a bill with a doctor for x number of thousands and thousands of dollars and you owe 100 of that bill you are liable for it you're the consumer of that service you owe the bill you however purchased from a third party insurance that is supposed to pay some of the doctor bill that you owe if they do not pay it it does not remove you from liability you owe the doctor bill and so since insurance has not paid this if it's a valid bill you owe it now. Now, what you can do is go back and chew their butt and go, why didn't you people run this through insurance properly,

which you've already done once? Why didn't they fix it then? I'm asking you, why didn't they fix it then? Oh, gotcha. So they said, well, we did run it through insurance properly, but insurance didn't get the referral and the right paperwork in time. So then insurance said, well, we can't backdate it. So, you know, we're not paying. So the doctor did not submit it to the insurance company properly?

Yes. Okay. Then I'm chewing their butt and saying, guys, you need to write this off instead of holding me to it because you didn't do your job. Okay. And that's the conversation you should have had back then and now you get to have now and they get to pull it back out of collections. Uh, or you get on the dock and you finally go, okay, because, but you need to start with the premise, Chris, that you do owe the money legally. Sure. And you can't go before the judge if you get sued and go, well, insurance is supposed to pay it, because he's just going to laugh and go, insurance ain't my problem, dude.

You have a contract with the doctor. The contract's broken because you didn't pay the bill. Now, however, the doctor's office, part of the service they're supposed to provide you, as well as labor and delivery, is to take care of insurance paperwork and the proper order. That way they get their freaking money. And since they didn't do that, I would challenge them that this is their problem. It's not legally their problem. It's morally and business-wise their problem. Does that make sense? Yes, sir.

Yeah, legally, if they don't file any paperwork, they can come after you for all of the bill. They can just throw up their hands and go, we're totally incompetent, we're not filing nothing, and we're going to own Chris. Okay? They can do that, legally. But it's a horrible way to run a doctor's office. It's a bad practice management, and you're going to tell everybody you know not to go have your baby over there. So, yeah, I'm going to call the office administrator and have a discussion with him. I mean, calmly and kindly, but firmly.

And go, guys, this is on you. It was your lack of competence, and you should not be trying to bill us for something because you didn't file the insurance paperwork. Part of the service you provide, as well as labor and delivery, is to take care of filing the paperwork in a proper and timely manner, and you did not do that. And now you turn it over to collections and have these bozos who say she's not a girl like that, and she is coming after me. It's ridiculous.

And so that's how you handle it. Now, at the end of the day, you're going to end up settling this with the doctor's office, hopefully for pennies on the dollar. So get ready to write a $500 check. Part of that's on you because you didn't settle this back when it was hot. When the deal's hot, when there's a problem, you can't just walk away and go, I wish it was okay. It's always going to come out of the closet later and get you. I'm right in the middle of dealing with this exact same thing and with the bill.

And it's frustrating. And you've got to continue to make that phone call well here's a funny one so sharon was at rachel's uh first book tour party launch party and i'm in the truck heading to the airport and i get a call and sharon passed out and so she just had blood iron or something i mean it's five years ago and lobe iron or something and was excited and everything or whatever and and so they load her up in an ambulance and take her to the dock and i go down the emergency room see her she's okay she's embarrassed she's like i'm all right i'm all right i'm all right okay so i never thought anything else about it again so i start

getting these phone calls for collection for a bill in collections me somebody's calling me and i'm going well you got this is this is absolute bullcrap there's no possible way i have a bill out in collection that's just ridiculous and so i'm just like i'm just hanging up on the guy you know just whatever i'm talking to him and so finally the guy just they just they're wearing me out and so i turned it over i gave it to our attorney our staff legal counsel here i, man, call these guys and straighten this out. Tell them I'm getting ready to own me a little collection agency because I obviously do not owe an outstanding bill that's gone to collections. This is ridiculous.

Well, he digs around to figure out it's an ambulance bill. Oh, goodness. I did owe the money. It was a $400 ambulance bill, and I never got a bill. They never billed me. They just jumped it in collections, and then this little idiot's calling me with a headset on you know and this kind of stuff so i did owe the bill i ended up having to pay it but but uh i'm just ignoring the guy just and i wasn't because i just thought it was bogus i'm the i'm in you cannot ignore it

i even tried it you cannot ignore it it comes back chris and then they start tacking fees on it well they're trying yeah that didn't work either i i looked at them i went to the emergency room on christmas day with a poison ivy uh it's a whole other story no i don't want to know about you don't worry but listen how do you get poison ivy in the middle winter no don't tell me i'm not gonna tell me um it's a way that only deloney can yeah but i looked him in the eye and said if i pay you cash can we shake hands and walk out? And their eyes lit up. You're going to pay us cash in a rural ER?

Absolutely. What you got? And I told him a number. And I said, Dave, I looked at this human being. It was during COVID through an iPad. And I said, you promised me. I don't owe you any more money. We're going to shake hands and walk out of here.

And she said, absolutely. I said, I'm going to ask you one more time. And you're recording this, right? And she said, absolutely. I said, I'm going to ask you one more time. And you're recording this, right? And she said, yep. We shook hands. It was good. It was an obnoxious amount of money, but it's my own dumb fault for getting poison ivy in December. That's what I get. I went home. Got a bill.

And it was a big one. A big bill. And I said, what in the world? And they said, well, that was for the hospital. The doctor has a different charge. And I said, that's like me going to Burger King and getting a number two combo. And then three months later, the fry guy sends me a bill at my house. That's part of the package. I thought the doctor was the key part of the emergency room service.

Evidently not. And so now I've got this. Do I want to lose sleep and go to war over 200 bucks? No. Nope. What kind of a do, Dave? Well, hey, I do. I know you want to, but I'm just saying, do you want to? So I get the want to part.

Oh, man. But here's the thing. It turns out that you can be in the medical industry and be horrible at business practices and math. Why? Apparently. I mean, because they've survived that way for decades now. I mean, every one of you listening out there has a horror story with some stupid butt medical bill. Everybody does.

I mean, I actually was auditing a customer who was about to go bankrupt one time, and they got charged $46 apiece for Advil. $46 per tablet you can't make this crap i love america this is the ramsey show We'll see you next time. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Quishera is with us. Hey, Quishera, how are you? Hi, Dave. Hi, John. Welcome. Where do you live? I live in Charlotte, North Carolina. Welcome to Nashville.

And all the way over here to do a debt-free scream. Yes, sir. Whoop, whoop. How much did you pay off? $82,000. Whoa! And how long did this take? 26 months.

Wow. And your range of income during that time? I started at $56,000, and last year I grossed $122,000. Whoa! Yes. You doubled your income. I did. In two years.

Yes. Well, first I have to hear how you did that. I took a leap of faith, and I took another career path, and now I'm a mortgage loan officer. So pretty much right now. What were you before? A premier banker. Okay. So doing credit cards.

Okay. So you took the private banking knowledge, the premier banking knowledge. Correct. And how to serve clients, particularly high-end clients, roll into the mortgage business and go touchdown absolutely perfect timing say what a time to get into the mortgage business yeah and what a time to take that skill set and use it well done well done i love it what kind of debt was the 82 000 well i financed a iphone security system i had to pay taxes i took out a 401k loan to put money down on a house I bought. I had two car notes. I had to buy my mom a car. She just had to have a car, right? In my

opinion. So small credit card debt. And the largest one was $52,000 in student loans. God, you just did everything. Yes. I mean, you're like normal. Pretty normal. Plus a little. A little extra normal on there. Correct. Hey, and here's what

makes all this ironic you worked for a bank yes i do work for a bank you knew better yeah well yeah no she was telling people to do the same stuff all day exactly there you go yeah so uh what what happened that changed all this yeah it's a few things i was talking to one of my supervisors and just a little gem he asked me how much did I have in my savings? And I told him about three or 4,000 at the time. He said, how much debt do you have? And I was just counting the student loans. I've said $53,000. He was like, well, you don't have a savings. So I was like, okay, that makes sense. I feel like that sparked it. And then somehow I really don't remember how, but I came across your book. I read it. And then I went down a loophole watching Debt Free Screams.

And it was this one particular story where this lady, she was single like myself. She made the same amount of money. She paid off the same amount of debt. And I'm like, if she could do it, I surely can do it. Yeah. And I took off from there. And now somebody's watching you. Yes.

Yeah. And they're going to do it because you did this. I hope so. Thank you. Thank you. You're very inspiring. Very, very fun. 82,026 months.

Yes. So you read the book, and then you went down the rabbit hole of YouTube and watched, because there's thousands of debt-free streams on YouTube. I mean, we've got them all on our YouTube channel, about a billion downloads on the podcast now, and literally. And so people are doing this all the time yes uh and what a good i mean you just like that just fills up your spirit yes other people winning yelling yeah that's cool that's gonna be me one day what would yeah what was the first thing you actually did then with this new motivation yeah i am i'm a very goal-oriented person i like to see things on paper so i wrote down all of my debt.

And my goal was just to be debt-free by 30. I started this when I was 26. So four years was plenty enough time. But, of course, you know, our Lord and Savior had sped that up. Things just kept lining up where income increasing, checks were coming. You know, I took on extra jobs, et cetera. So just got after it. Yeah. I've watched this for years.

And the metaphor that I've used is that it's like God is sitting up there going, oh, look, there's one that's now smart. I can trust this one. Absolutely. Because when you're faithful with the little things, you're given more to manage. That's scriptural. And it's almost as if you're walking along and you step up on one of those moving sidewalks at the airport. And now you're still walking, but you're moving even faster. Yes.

And God just takes you faster than your little legs take you by yourself. Absolutely. He let me finish this a month after. Well, actually, the same month I turned 29. So, again, he fast-tracked my plan. His plan is always better than ours. You're faster. Amen.

You're faster than you thought you were going to. Correct. Way to go. Thank you. Who was your biggest cheerleaders? My family was always going to support me, but outside of that, I felt like just watching, listening to your show daily. I mean, I would take road trips. I would listen to it on the plane. I did Uber and Lyft for a time. I would play it in

the car. So just keeping you on and, again, just watching YouTube videos kept me motivated with the listeners looking to do what i'm doing when'd you make the jump to mortgages july of 2019 and i finished july of 2020 okay so one year of the two years was at a potentially higher income correct or a higher income certainly you've been i'm sure the mortgage business got better every month absolutely yeah and um and you did all this through COVID. Correct, which was great for me. A lot of folks are taking advantage of not having to pay student loans, and I thought it was a great

opportunity to pay student loans since all my money is going towards principal versus interest. So, of course, again, just gazelle that as well. Yeah. Give was give us a moment you got scared things things got dicey um it's a long journey um you know i tell anyone it's it's it's one of the hardest things i ever did it's simple and i need simple a simple plan to follow but it's one of the hardest things i ever did so just just trying to stick with it and just remembering hey this is temporary this is going to be two years and i'm only 29 I have my entire life to live financially free. So when it got scary, you just backed up and had perspective. Correct.

Remembering the goal. Yeah, and remember where I'm going to be, what it's going to feel like. Exactly. That's a big deal. That's very strong. That's very strong. You're an amazing young woman. I'm so proud of you. Thank you.

I'm sure your mom's proud of you. She came with you. Who else came with you? Yes, my mom and my sister. All right. The family is supporting. Yes yes i like it this is very very cool well congratulations thank you so much well done so you tell people the key to getting out of debt is yeah so um stay the course again it may get weary but just stick with it you you're literally almost probably close to finishing if you're thinking about quitting um lowering your expenses and

increasing your income is a big one i got rid of streaming services um i went from a 120 cell phone bill down to 50 my folks actually laugh at me because my service isn't that great but my bill is 50 so and i don't want to talk to you anyway exactly after talking on the phone with my clients um discipline and sacrifice those are those are the for me. We're getting out of debt. Yeah, you really, you were so game on. I mean, you identified the target. Like you said, you said I'm goal-oriented, but you really are. That's not just that. That's the way your brain works.

And once you set that thing, and then it's game on. Correct. You know, and there's no stopping you. And did you learn anything about yourself during this journey? I would say I can really do whatever I really put my mind to. You kind of already knew that. Yeah. This just gave you more confidence.

Correct. Yeah. Yeah, because you weren't lacking in confidence before. No, you got a… I mean, your mom raised you right. That's awesome. Yeah, absolutely. You got a presence about you that's powerful.

Wow, thank you. Very cool. Very cool. Well done! Woo-hoo-hoo! Yeah! Well, we got a copy of Rachel Cruz's latest New York Times bestseller, Know Yourself, Know Your Money, for you.

Thank you. And we'll add that to your collection of Ramsey books, and you're an impressive young woman. Well done. All right. Quishera from Charlotte, North Carolina. $82,000 paid off in 26 months, making $56,000 to $122,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream.

Three, two, one. I'm debt-free! I'm debt-free! Yeah! Woo-hoo-hoo-hoo! one i'm dead free man oh man oh man oh man i don't know a lot but because she has a goal i'm not going to get between her and that goal no you wouldn't want to no and i don't i i also don't know a lot but i think you just got a parenting principle woven into that that mom taught that kid how to be that kind of woman how to have self-worth how to have goals how to i to know i can do hard things all of it you have value and that means you can go get whatever there want to get. There was zero chance

that woman's going to be a victim. Nope. Or adopt a victim position. Of any kind, ever. There's a brick wall. Do not get in her way. That's cool. I'm going to run right through it. It's incredible. It's incredible.

Cashier's mom, I see you and you're inspiring me because I'm I see you, and you're inspiring me, because I'm raising a little girl, and you're inspiring me. Amen. Yeah. You want to build a warrior princess, baby, that's how you do it. Wow. Pretty incredible. This is The Ramsey Show. Thank you. Our scripture of the day, Psalm 16, 5 and 6.

Lord, you alone are my portion and my cup. You make my lot secure. The boundary lines have fallen for me in pleasant places. Surely, I have a delightful inheritance. Charles Kettering said, every father should remember that one day his son will follow his example, not

his advice. Nice job, Kettering. They will watch everything you do. And do it perfectly. Yep. They won't listen to you, but they will watch you. You don't believe me? Try opening your mouth and one of your parents comes out.

Oh, it's happening. Dude, I got an 11-year-old and a 5-year-old, Dave. I hear it, and you just have to look over your shoulders. My old man, is my dad here? What is happening? How did that just come out? Where'd that come from? And then I watched my son make the same face I made.

I could feel it. It's like living in the Matrix. It's so bizarre. Rachel says more is caught than taught. That is so true. You want your children to be good with money? Let me teach you how to do that. You be good with money.

It's so much easier just to tell them stuff, Dave. And do it in front of them. Don't hide it. Don't hide all of your money secrets because they're not really secrets after all. Hey, while we're on that topic, let me ask you this. What is a rule of thumb you've experienced over the years telling kids your salary? Because I really like having, especially my 11-year-old down there, watching us do the budget and watching.

Because I want him to have an understanding. Here's how much electricity costs and water costs and those kind of things. But also just having an innate fear of him running around school saying, hey, what does your parents make? My parents, you know what I mean? Yeah. I, you know, I shared all the expenses, but I never shared the income. Okay. Until they were 18.

Okay. Or until they were never shared the income. Okay. Until they were 18. Okay. Or until they were in college or whatever. Gotcha. They knew we were doing okay, you know, kind of thing, but they, I didn't. But we were also trying to protect our kids from the celebrity crap as well. Right. You know, because we were trying to make sure they don't play the Dave card at school to try to get some kind of favor, you know, or something. My dad's Dave Ramsey. You you know that kind of bullcrap and so you just got to step on that with a big foot and so um truthfully none of them ever did it much except

rachel yeah i think my son lies about his last name and no it's delaney i'm not that guy right well yeah and there's some of that. I mean, because there's two sides to that part. There's a lot of French guys in Fairview. Try being in a personal finance class in college and your dad's name is Dave Ramsey. Yeah, that would be a pain in the butt. So that really happened. Didn't go well.

And so, but yeah. And I can see Rachel. She won't back down either. No. Daniel would nod politely. She won't back down either. No. Daniel would nod politely. Rachel would say, excuse me. Yeah, Daniel waited until the end of the semester and then told the guy his last name. Right, right.

He didn't even get it. The guy didn't even understand how stupid he was. But the, yeah, no, we didn't share incomes. But it's protecting an 11-year from himself i think but well and they you know they because they just um you know they uh even if something is the truth you don't want them bragging that's right you don't want them uh embarrassing themselves or the family or whatever else i mean it's just you don't want them being that kid you know like a rub you know my dad makes sense my mama makes sense though yeah you know that that's a gross kid but i like that idea of of sharing the expenses making sure they see yeah they did i mean i remember distinctly rachel and Rachel and maybe Denise sitting at the kitchen table, and we're going over the electric bill, and Denise goes, oh, my gosh.

It costs so much to buy electricity. And, like, Rachel looked at her and goes, I guess that's why they're telling us to close the door all the time. Turn the lights off. But there was this, no pun intended, light bulb moment that came on, right? And, you know, but that's really good. I love those conversations. And, you know, get the mutual fund statement out and go, here's the share price and here's the number of shares in your college fund. Right.

And so how do you figure out how much money is in your college fund? You multiply those times each other. I love that. And it's a little sixth grade grade math lesson fourth grade math lesson there i love whatever it is to get to that point and work that through but it's value building and uh and then you have to you know you have to constantly correct uh for them we just we squashed out any type of entitlement oh yeah stuff like rachel and I told the story in the Smart Money, Smart Kids series in the book and in the teaching series she does in Ramsey Plus. Daniel was a little guy, you know, about seven, eight years old.

And we finally got a decent car after going broke. And, you know, we're old Southern people. So you get a new car, everybody piles in, you go for a little ride, right? That's like a celebration of buying the new car car you know what i'm talking about yes and so daniel gets he leans back in the back seat all the way back and he goes we're doing pretty good and i said honey we ain't doing anything you got nothing you got nothing i'm doing pretty good you you're just along for the ride buddy and so he's like the kids told that story for years because Daniel's like, okay, okay. I just thought.

When I got this latest truck, this fine 06 model, Hank got in it. He looked at it. He looked at me. Based on the old truck I was driving. Yeah. It's a pretty sizable upgrade. He said, dad, are we rich? I said, yeah.

Yes, we are, son. Yes, we are. We have a good use pickup. That's right. We are rich. This truck cost five digits. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Not just...

Not everybody has a five-digit pickup. This truck had a 10 in front of the comma. Mm-hmm. Whoa, Dad dad that's right son stay close to your old man he'll get you places oh my gosh well the thing is yeah you do want to share and then on the other side the other thing we run into with kids how much to discuss is when things aren't going well right you don't want to scare them, right? You can terrify kids. Yeah, you can terrify them. We're going to get foreclosed on and thrown in the street.

Yes. And that's trauma that they'll carry into their 40s. Right. You know. But instead, just go, you know, mom and dad got this. It's going to be okay. We're having some bad times, though. And you just keep it where they can digest it.

And obviously, you can disclose more to a 14-year-old than you can a 4-year-old, at least hypothetically. I've learned in those conversations that touch is a huge settling thing for a kid. If I'm having a hard conversation with a young kid, I'm going to sit him on my lap. I'm going to make sure I'm touching their face, touching their hands. And it's a grounding force for a kid. They can hear it and they can see me, right? As opposed to just

throwing off a piece of information that I got more context to and that kid's going to take that and just run with it, right? So like neural pathways? It's just I need them

to be grounded and know that I got you. I got you. We're here. This is a hard season. This is really tough times. And dad's working a plan with mom and we're going to figure this out. Because they can sense it.

They can feel the stress in the air. And if you don't call it out, they will assume that stress is created by them and they will spend the rest of their life trying to solve it. Yeah. Right? And you got to let them know there is stress in the air. It is not you. In fact, you're the best part of this.

And we're going to make it. We're having grown-up challenges. And luckily, you've got grown-ups solving them. That's right. We're going to make it. That's right. We're going to make it. That car is not going to be in the driveway anymore.

We're going to make it. Yeah. We sold the boat. Oh, boy. You know? We're going to make it. Yeah. But you're going to be okay.

We're going to have food, and we got each other. And we're going to go kick a soccer ball out right now. Yeah. Yeah. And we'll work it out. But you got to be real careful because, well, children deserve to know. Not really. You can weaponize truth in a way that makes you feel tough and makes you feel back in control.

Don't do that to a kid. Yeah. Right. Call your buddy and tell him you're scared to death. And that's why you've got to have people in your life, right? Yeah. But it is good to also the other side of it is to acknowledge it. You need to acknowledge it.

Got to call it out. Keeping it completely stuffed. They know something's up, and they think it's worse than it is. And there's some conventional parenting wisdom years ago was don't have disagreements in front of your kids. You don't want to scare them. And inadvertently, there's a generation of kids that don't know that you can fight and still love somebody, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Kids grow up. Parents never talked about sex. Parents never talked about money. Figured they hadn't either. Found out later they had both. I know. And I didn't want to know any of it.

Don't want to know this. I don't want to know any of it. Don't want to know this. I don't want to know this. Dr. John Deloney, good show today. Thank you. Good job, James Childs and Kelly Daniel in the booth. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there is ultimately only one way to financial peace,

and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. This is James Child, producer of The Ramsey Show. Did you know The Ramsey Show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world? Subscribe or follow today wherever you listen to podcasts.