The Ramsey Show - App - Wealth Gives You the Freedom To Make Your Own Choices

Episode Date: October 29, 2024

from the Ramsey Network it's the Ramsey show I'm Jade Warshaw next to me is one of my favorite guys out there Ken Coleman hello everybody hosting the show together hey we're talking about your life your money uh we'll throw in careers. Ken is the resident career guide. I will help you with the money. You might have some relationship issues. You can toss those in as well. The number is 888-825-5225. Call us up. We'll get you on the line. Let's dig right in. We've got Tyler. He's in Charlotte, North Carolina. What's going on, Tyler? Hey, how are y'all? We're doing good. How can we help today? So I have about $2.5 million in debt between mortgages, short-term, different car loans, stuff like that. I'm aggressively paying off kind of all the debt except for the mortgages currently. Okay.

And I'm just trying to see, and I should have that done in about a year, a year and a half based on the way I would set up. And I'm just trying to see if I should make bigger changes and try to attack everything a little bit more aggressively and get it paid off sooner. Or if I could just try to continue the way I'm going. Let's roll back and see where this lies. Because when you first told me I have two and a half million dollars of debt, my pulse quickens. But then when you mentioned real estate, I thought, okay, that makes this a little different. So tell me about the real estate. Can you just go by property by property and I'll ask you about each one. So the first property you

have, is it a rental? I'm guessing. Yeah. So, um, first one was a duplex. It's worth about $260,000. I have about $158,000 on it. So I'm saying about $1,300. Yeah. I'm saying about $1,300. Income is about $2,150. Okay. So let's go to the next one. Single family, $270,000. Asset value, debt about $159,000. Payment, $1,000. Income, $1,750. Okay. And the next one? Worth about $310,000. Debt, $200,000. Payment, $1,481. Income, $2,200. Okay. Is there more? Yeah. Another single family. That one we're actually trying to sell. We have more? Yeah. Another single family. That one we're actually trying to sell.

We have on Airbnb currently. It's worth about $540,000. Debt $460,000. Payment $3,600,000. And income about the same. I think after everything's said and done, we'll probably lose about $500,000 a month on that one. Okay. Anything after that?

Number five? Yeah, we have a duplex value 360,000, debt 205, payment about 1460, income 2,800. Okay. Anything else you want to keep going on? Yeah, it's quite a few more. Oh, gosh. Okay. Well, instead of going through these, here's what I would do if I were in your situation. I don't like that you're carrying $2.5 million of debt. And I love that you love real estate and I love that you want to get into real estate. Here, we would teach a way to do that that's in cash and it would be you paying off your debt first and saving up to buy cash. You've gone far beyond that. And it is true that some of these may be good investments for you, but not at the tune of you being in two and a half million dollars of debt. So what I would do if I were in your shoes is I'd

list them all out and I'd say, which ones can I sell off in order to clear this debt out? And are there a few that in the end that I'll be able to keep that do, you know, create some income for me? Because how many do you have total? It's 18 units total, but we have... Mortgages. How many mortgages? Nine. Mortgage is counting the personal property. One that's paid off. So yeah, what I would do is try to get right side up on this and figure out which ones can i sell that are going to bring the right amount of profit in order for me to clear out this debt um have you sat down to kind of figure that out yet well the problem with with doing i mean i've thought about that in the past but being that

pretty much every one of these are make a pretty good income after the debt, when I factor in selling them off to pay off the other ones, it reduces the income pretty substantially. Is this your only income? It's not as much income as you think. Your margins per house are actually not impressive, and I'm not saying that to be unkind. I'm saying that because I agree with Jade, and I think the best play here is to actually get rid of the duplexes. I'd sell the duplexes today. Those are just bad investments in my opinion. But the point is, I think Jade's right. You can still come out of this thing on top. You've got enough equity in these homes, just as you were listing through these, that if you sell X amount, so I would take, I'm making this up. Let's say you got eight properties. I'd take the best four. I'd start there and go,

what are the absolute best four properties if you're looking long-term, Tyler? And I think you probably know some of these are better than others, true or false. Okay. So once you've paid those off, as Jay told you, now it's straight profit. But on some of these you were listing, you're like, well, my mortgage is a thousand, I'm making 1750. That's $750 gross times 12. That's about 10 grand, a little over 10 grand. And that's actually gross. That's after your expenses and taking care of things. All I'm saying is, is that you're going to be better off with Jade's plan because now you're actually making a sizable chunk and you don't owe any debt and you have no risk. I'd get out of this now. I mean, the truth, what Ken is saying is right on.

And I don't say this to be condescending in any way, but the truth is revenue minus expenses equals profit. And you're in debt. You're in the red because you owe two and a half million it would be very different if you're carrying all these properties and you're like jade i've got and don't get me wrong i'm not saying i'd be a proponent to this but if you're like hey i'm carrying all this debt but because of the way it's cash flowing i'm in the green two and two and a half million but you're in the red right so these are not good investments for you. What signals a good and healthy business is profit. And so what you're saying, you're cash flowing. It's not actually profit. It is, it is what really should be happening is you need to be filtering back then in that end to pay off

the debt. And so for that reason, yeah, what Ken said, what I said before is your way out of this. I want you in the green and I want you doing deals that end with a net profit. And that's not what's taking place here. Could four of these pay off the other four? Just gut check real quick. Well, I have, so there's two. If I take my personal property out of here, that reduces it down to about $1.75 million in mortgages. And then the value would be somewhere around $2.7 million.

So we have about a million dollars in value. Man, okay, so let me paint a different picture for you. Let's just real numbers. Okay, let's say that you now have a million dollars. A million dollars. And now you're paying off your personal home, no debt in your life at all, and now you've got real cash flow plus cash. Why is that not the better play in your mind?

Zero risk. Yeah, and your place is paid. Yeah. Is that not a better vision? If you don't agree, you just have have to what you're acting like this is impossible well the thing is we crumbled we just crumbled your empire like i i sense that you know you have you've acquired this over time yeah but those four are going to spit off how much that's what i'm trying to get you to let's say you were left with four houses you got cash plus they're spitting

off you know the four left are going to spit off what? How much per month? I would have to see which one's the best here. Run those numbers. But if I, yeah, just off the top of my head,

I'm probably looking at like, if I just say three, they equal up close to that, it'd probably be somewhere around, I don't know, 6,000 or so. Okay, but that's real money now.

That's $72,000 in the clear. Not paying any debt. You'll have some expenses on that. Yeah. The truth is, Ken is right. If there's anything good about any of these investments, you should be able to sell off some of them, pocket some cash, get your residents paid for, and keep some of the properties. That's what should be happening here. If for some reason you can't sell these to clear the debt, then something really is wrong. This is The Ramsey Show. Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance or they don't have any at all.

I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're not going to die or something? Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids. And I immediately went and got term life insurance. That's a gut punch. For decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. Me too. And they don't know what to do next. Terrifying. You're going to have a crisis here.

You know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly the two options. It's saying I love you to your family. Term life insurance. Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years.

They're the only people I trust. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. You are listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me is best-selling author Ken Coleman, host of The Ken Coleman Show. If you don't know about Ken Coleman, you need to get on it because he offers a lot of things that you need in your career and professional life.

Also, if you want to call in and have questions about your professional life, he's the guy that's going to help you out. I'll help you with the money. The number is 888-825-5225. If you didn't know, it's a live show. So if you want your question answered, call in right now. Okay, we've got Matthew in Springfield, Massachusetts. What's going on, Matthew?

Not much, Jade. Hey, Ken. How you guys doing? Good. How are you? Good. Thank you. I'm calling in because I am curious how to go about having the conversation with my little

brother on paying on his parent plus loan. Okay. There's a lot going. You're not even third party. You're like fourth party on this, right? Yeah. I've been listening to you guys for about a year now and I've had a couple of family members come to me with money advice just from listening to you guys and kind of what direction to go and then some people are like ah you're crazy. I mean what makes you feel like you're the guy to talk to your little brother about paying for the parent plus loan that your parents took out? Tell me more about that why you feel you need to step in. Just he would listen to me more he doesn't really see eye to eye with my parents we don't really

talk to him that much he comes home here and there um but other than that communication is minimal okay i mean the truth is when i'm looking at ken's face i i wouldn't touch this with a 10 foot pole it's not your battle to fight. That's right. And case and point, I tried to talk to my younger brother about his parent-famous loans. Oh, you did? I did. How'd that go? It didn't go. It did not go. And were you close with him and are you close with him? Yeah. So this is a strange relationship. Listen, I'm a Ramsey personality and he didn't even listen to me. So that's my point is you got to let people fight their battles. If your parents want your little brother to pay the loan, they need to talk to him.

Did they come to you on this or did they passive aggressive kind of drop some things around you to where you felt this burden? No, it's just the family member comes to me and talks about it. Yeah, which family member? It's my mother. So you said no, but the answer was yes. She straight up dropped it on you kind of passively, aggressively, griping about it, and you felt like, all right, I'll take up the cause because you're a good son.

I mean, thank you for the good son part, but it's just talking to him between the two of them. She tries to talk to him and he gets very upset, almost triggered, essentially, and wants nothing to do with the loan. Well, let's let's find out. And I let's make it clear this is fourth party information but to your um recollection when the loan was taken out did they talk to him and say hey we're signing for this loan but it's up to you to pay it back did they say that yes he so well it's just my dad didn't sign it was just between my mom and my brother and it was to go to a school that so they both signed it the mom and my brother. And it was to go to a school that was out of the picture. So they both signed it? The mom and the brother signed it or just the mom? Both. Okay. Both signed on it. And then

she had told him he should come back to a college in the area that was much cheaper. Mm-hmm. And he continued to disagree. But again, at the time, we weren't listening to you guys. And well, here's the truth. Here's the truth. And I'm not suggesting you get involved in it. But just in case your brother or your mom happens to listen to this call, the truth is a cosigner is in place when the first party is deemed unfit to pay the loan. That's the truth. And so a lot of times a parent plus loan comes into place where it's like hey you've already maxed out the other loan options available to you we're not going to loan you any more money just on you so now you've got to get a parent to sign or you know vice versa uh and so the truth is if you sign the loan you know if as the parent you're kind of the one on the hook for it that's's the truth. Now I get it. And that's why I asked if there was some, some, something that they worked

out in the beginning. But the truth is you really don't know the nature of all the conversations that have taken place between the two of them. You know what your mom has said. Obviously there's something that's triggering your brother. And if I were you, I'm, I ain't in it. That's what I would say is, hey, you guys figure this out between the two of you. I hope you can come to amends on this, but mom, please leave me out of it. Brother, please leave me out of it. That's what I'd be saying.

Ken Coleman? Yeah, if you called and said, how should I go about it? I'm with you. I wouldn't do it because now the tension between your mom and him, now you're getting in the middle of that and now it's on you. I would stay out. That's choice A. However, if you want to talk to him, I think you got one shot

and this is what I would do. You only get one shot. Get one shot. Thank you with the M&M. She's always there for me. Thankfully, this time she made a music reference that I understand. Usually I'm like the old boomer, like, what? What you talking about? You did good. You done good, kid. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

If I was going to do it, which I wouldn't, but if I was, I would take the high road. And what I mean by that is, hey, listen, mom dropped this on me in the conversation. Yeah. It's none of my business. Like this, liking the caveats. But as your brother, you know, and I don't want to see you and mom have this fight. You all got to figure this out. But I'm telling you, you owe it to them, to mom. You owe it to mom.

You signed on the line. You went to the school you wanted to go to. I'm not going to belabor this. I'm not going to belittle you. I'm not going to judge you. But I'm just going to say, bro, you're going to regret this if this becomes a big issue between you and mom when you're an old guy. So I'm just saying, I think you need to step up and fix this with mom and take your responsibility. And then I'd walk away. I think you just, at that point, you're trying to say, man, I just think this is best for you and mom. You did sign up for this. I'm not going to bring this up anymore. I'm not going to bring it up anymore. And I'd walk. This is why I hate him because the truth is, Ken, you're right. If

you're listening to this, you have a Parent Plus loan. If you can, let's play out a couple of scenarios here. If your parents are in their 70s, they're in debt. There's no way they're going to pay this thing. And both of you signed for it. The truth is, it's going to affect your credit. Like they could literally pass away and it's still going to go to you because you're signed on it too. And so that's one way this plays out, which is in the end, it's going to fall on you anyway.

If both of your names are on it, then there's some situations where only the parent signed the loan. And if that's the case, it's like, listen, if you don't plan on paying this, you took it out all in your name. It's all on you. Truly, the student has no need to go in there and fund that. And then there's the situations where it's like, hey, we spoke about this ahead of time. And we said, hey, if we sign the 60, you pay it back. And if that's the case, you have to make good on what you said you were going to do, to do regardless of whose name it's in if you make an agreement you should hold up your end of the bargain so there's a lot here there is i'm going to bring one more scenario because i think this

is very likely there's a scenario where the brother is sitting at a graveside service and he's broken and he's dealing with an almost unbearable weight that he let this create a division. And things are left unsaid all because of a commitment that he made. I just think the regret on this will be almost unbearable. I hear that. I think you have to talk real, real about this. This is where this ends up. Yeah. But the brother, the party who's the two parties who signed need to talk. That's right. This is not sideways conversations. Yeah. It's not on the, uh, our friend who called us

Matthew. Yeah. So the, yeah, the moral of the story here guys is parent plus loans. Don't do it. And I'm a, I'll tell you a real story uh ken i went to school on full ride scholarship uh but i went a fifth year and my scholarship didn't cover the fifth year and i remember asking my dad to sign a parent plus loan for me do you know what he said no no good man he said no he's like i'm not signing that loan so um it's okay to say no um and just know that if you sign something with somebody, you're connected for life. And if they don't pay, it's on you.

And if you don't pay, it's on them. Parents, this is not a gift. Signing debt to your child is not a gift. It creates strain and strife and contention and all of these things. So do not do it. Find other ways. And if you're dealing with this situation,

you need to have open and honest conversations with your parents about it and figure out a plan forward. And both of you hold up your end of the bargain. This is The Ramsey Show. You're listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm Jade. Next to me is Ken Coleman. And here at Ramsey Solutions, we have a wonderful debt-free stage.

People come here all the time to give their debt-free scream. And Ken, something very cool is happening right now. I think it's cool. It will be cool, but it's strange. It is strange. For us, because our two friends and colleagues. No, don't give it away. Don't give it away, Ken.

I stopped. I stopped. Yes, ma'am. I stopped. The buildup that we discussed was to say. See, now everybody's wondering who am I talking about. This is the first time we've had a non-married couple on the debt

free stage. I know. That's why it's kind of cool and weird. Okay so now in keeping with the theme let's do the big reveal. We are not a couple. Ayo! Do you know those voices? That is the one, the only the graceful the incomparable Rachel

Cruz. Yes. Joined on the debt free stage by incomparable Rachel Cruz. Yes. Joined on the debt-free stage by Beauty and the Beast. Yes. They got throughout the mold. He is the one, the only Dr. John Pelloni. Guys, it's kind of sad that we're all separated by a glass wall. I know. I feel like you and I have a virus maybe.

We do. We're contaminated. But tell us why you're on the stage. I mean, we just had a really great weekend. Tell us about it. So yeah, we just got off of Money in Marriage weekend here where 600 plus couples came from all over the country, actually all over North America.

They came from Canada too. And it was an amazing weekend. And we are having a Money in Marriage event tonight, a live stream event. Okay. So this is virtual. So we knew not everyone could travel to nashville for having you know multiple days here because you know life

it's expensive there's kids everything so we did want to create an experience for couples out there that can't make it here live so we were like well a few days after the big event let's just do a virtual night kind of a mini and i can still sign And I can still sign up. You can still sign up. Right. And it's only $49. What? Like, you spend more on that on a couple apps these days. A couple appetizers. Chick-fil-A? I thought you meant on your phone.

Sorry, I meant at dinner. I'm thinking date night. I'm thinking tonight's a virtual date night. It is, yes. Yes, yes, yes. And if you miss it tonight, we're actually going to still have it live. So you can still go and purchase a ticket and still watch it after tonight but we're going to be live at seven o'clock okay central time all right what are you covering because the marriage the money marriage weekend is a extravaganza over

multiple days you got to shrink it into one night what'd you choose to cover what are they going to experience i think we're going to be talking specifically to the chaos that everybody feels in their house right now. We have an election coming up. I don't know what you're talking about. My house is serene. Exactly. Mine is too.

It's just like a walking pack full in my house. But there's chaos in everybody's house. It's just an electricity in there. And we're heading into the holiday season. Right. So how do you keep your family intact, both psychologically and emotionally, and just have some joy? It's the holidays coming up. Yeah.

It's marriage and money. Are you talking about S-E-X? There will be some of that. We'll be talking about some in-laws. What does that stand for? Not together. No, but. That was an acronym.

I didn't get that. Yeah, so choices, making wise choices in life is important. So John's talking about that. I'll be talking about budgeting, your money, your time. So again, it's kind of the proactiveness going in to the season that we're going in when you're a married couple. So how do you do that well?

Should couples, here comes the fastball. Come on, Kim. Should couples budget time for the SEX? Yes. Okay. And if you're talking about

special exotic xylophones, no. But if you're talking about- I wasn't, but now you've got me thinking about it. Well, you're talking about acronyms. Unfortunately. Yes, you should budget time for joy.

You should budget time for sex. You should budget time for everything. And Rachel's going to cover that tonight and more. Okay. Speaking of budgeting time, if I'm going to sign up for this money and marriage virtual night, how much time should I budget to watch it? How long is the event going to be? We're going to throw out an hour and a half.

Yeah, an hour and a half, two hours. Sounds good. So there'll be some live Q&A too. So if you're there live watching, we'll be answering your questions at the end. And so they can ask questions. They can ask questions, yeah. So there'll be an active chat. That's always fun. And it's sold really well. We're excited. So there'll be a lot of people watching all over. Wow.

So what you're telling us is we make a plate of nachos, we get some drinks, we set it up on the big screen. And just enjoy it. And let's be honest. It's a Tuesday night. What do you people have going on on a Tuesday night? Let's be clear.

We don't talk to exciting people because we're not exciting people. We're not. So what else would you have tonight? Take a night off from the election drama. Oh, 100%. Just pause the Netflix series. Yeah, that's what I'm getting at. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then tune us in. you have tonight from the election drama and just a week before the craziness pause the Netflix series yeah that's what

I'm getting at yeah yeah yeah and then tune us in and hopefully we'll help right so you will it'll be entertaining it's gonna be fun

it's gonna be a blast okay guys tickets are $49 get yours at ramsaysolutions.com slash events and again if you can't watch it tonight

you can still sign up and watch it whenever you're ready you can click the link in description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast, Rachel,

John, thanks for coming and hanging out with us. It's good to see you on the other side of the glass. I feel like James, we need before we let them go. I feel I'm calling it to get rid of them. Shouldn't they scream something? We're not married.

Okay. Three, two, one. We're not married. Okay. Then you're out of here. All right. Count it down three, two, one. We're not married. And then you're out of here. All right, count it down.

I'm a bad screen. I am married, though. But you're not married to each other. That's right. I like Rachel's thing. Go ahead, count it down. Three, two, one. We're not married to each other.

Three, two, one. We're not married to each other. All right, get out of here. All right, we went with it. We did the sound effects. That was a great freedom. That was fantastic. Thank you for Winston Cruz.

We love you, Winston. And Sheila. We did the sound effects. That was a great freedom. That was fantastic. Thank you for Winston Cruz. We love you, Winston. And Sheila. We did the whole thing. Sound effect, everything. And they literally just, they didn't even give it a college try. Well, you know, sometimes people do do their debt-free scream and it's kind of like, we're debt-free. And you're like, what's happening right now?

Well, that's their style. That is their style. Yes. That is their style. Just to wrap this crazy segment up. Yes. Marriage and Money is doing a virtual event tonight. It's a marriage date night. You can sign up. It's 49 bucks. RamseySolutions.com slash events. If you can't attend tonight, still sign up. It'll be available for you to continue to enjoy. Okay. After that, Ken, we need to go to the phone.

I think it's time to help somebody. Knoxville, Tennessee is where John is. What's going on, John? Hey, guys. How's it going? We're great. How can we help? So I got married about two years ago. Five months ago, we had our first baby. We moved into a bigger house.

Expenses are up. Income's a little stagnant. And the wife is talking to me that we need a new car. And I just, I've spent all my 20s saving my pennies, and I'm worried about opening up the cookie jar. I love the way you're setting this call up, John. I think this is great. It's very delicate. But he's laying it out, though.

He's done. John has no capacity for more expenses, Jake. Okay, John. What's the current vehicle situation? Let's see if this is warranted. What's going on with the cars right now? Mine's probably 13 years old. It's got 105,000 miles on it. I bought my first property about a mile from

my work, so I wouldn't put a bunch of miles on it. It's paid off? Oh yeah, it's paid off. It's been paid off for eight years kind of thing. Hers, we've got four months maybe five left on it and hers is relatively newer it's a 2017 honda accord but she wants something bigger to haul the baby around what is your minivan mine is a kia optima 2012 is that a car or an su SUV? It's a car. Okay. So it's not. So her Accord still has payments. Is she in her mind? Is she thinking, hey, I want to roll this into another car payment and get the van I want? Or is she thinking, hey, let's let's get out of this and pay cash for something? What's her plan? So, so I mean it would be probably turning my car in because it's kind of dinged up and old and me taking her car and me purchasing the next

vehicle how much okay let's figure out if that can work what do you owe what's the balance on the accord she's got three or four more months of payment and what what does that equal to uh i think it's five hundred dollars a month so she has like two grand left on it okay so it's got about two grand left um and then what do you have in savings? That's not emergency fund because this is not an emergency. Yeah, probably $500,000, something like that. In non-retirement savings?

Yes. Why are we talking? Go buy her a car, John! You got half a million in savings and cash. You better loosen up those purse strings. What do you make a year? Mama wants a minivan.

What do you make every year? We make, together, we make $160,000. Okay, so don't spend more than half of that. Your two vehicles combined do not need to be any more than half of your take-home pay. Go get this woman a car and pay cash. Now. This is the Ramsey Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

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Hey, we're glad you're here. Thanks for taking some time out to listen to the show. If you get a chance, like it, share it, subscribe it, all that good stuff. Ken Coleman is my co-host today, talking about your life, your money, your careers, your relationships. The number is simple, 888-825-5225 gets you in. We've got Sarah who's in Houston, Texas. Let's go. What's going on, Sarah? Hi. I am a stay-at-home mom and my husband and I don't have any debt other than our mortgage and we live on a budget, but it's pretty tight, and I find every time I'm saving money, I end up dipping into that. My question is, my husband has a pension because he works for the city,

but we also give to a different investment account, like for retirement, just in case the pension gets mismanaged, and I'm just wondering if we're overdoing it and well tell us the numbers what percentage goes what percentage goes to his pension and what percentage are you guys putting aside in the additional investment accounts so 12 percent goes to the pension and I think it's almost it's almost 15% goes to the 457. Wow. Okay. Typically what we would say is treat the pension like half. So maybe in this case, you could treat it like 6% and then you do the other 9% to another investment account that you have more control over. So in that way, you could pull back. And I think having that extra 6% would help things feel less tight. Yeah?

Yes, for sure. And then maybe help us save for kids' college a little bit easier. Let's talk about income. So it feels like you guys are pretty good at the budget. And it's just an income issue. Obviously, you're staying home, and that's the season of life, and it's a great choice. What is he making, and what does he do for the city?

He is a firefighter. Okay. And his income varies with overtime. So it's about $5,000 a month, I think is our average. Yeah. So what other skills does he have, experience does he have that's transferable? Because one of the things about a fireman's schedule is he's got those three on, four off, or whatever it ends up being, you know, and so he's got, my point is, is he's got a my point is, he's got a really unique situation where he's got some downtime

or he could be making some money. And this is not necessarily something he has to do for the rest of his life, but certainly in this season, where it's just one income, adding some more income right now, I think is a must for you guys. Number one, to have some margin.

Because you guys are disciplined. So imagine how much more progress you guys could make financially given your discipline if you had more coming in. You tracking with me? Yes. I think I feel like the time off gets sucked up with things like fixing cars and fixing the house. That's when he comes back and is part of the household.

I get that. All I'm saying is, I get that, but that's still a choice. You guys have got to make choices right now. You got little ones, you're trying to save for them, and you're going to have to make a choice. What's most important? I can see one day a week, he messes around with an old car or something like that. That's a hobby. I'm all about hobbies. I got my hobbies, and they are religious for me, okay, because I need them. Well, but fixing the cars is more that we drive old cars that need fixing all the time. But again, more money means better cars.

More money means investing for the kids' colleges or their future education. How old are the kids? They range from 12 to 1. Ooh, mama. How many do you have? Four. Oh, boy. You know what?

I'm not going to lie, Sarah. When I first started talking, I said, Sarah sounds stressed. Yeah. And you are stressed. I am. You're doing a great job, though. To Ken's point, you guys have got a handle on the budget. I love that. What I really love is that when I asked you direct questions about the numbers, you knew them, which lets me know you're on top of this. And, you know, I think Ken is right. If there's a way to bring in a little bit more money to,

to, to bring some breathing room into the situation, it would probably help you guys out over time. I'm not sure what that is, but I think that there's some margin to make that happen. Either way, though, I think dropping that investing down by 6% and taking advantage of the pension that is there, I think that's going to give you guys the breathing room that you're looking for. All right. By the way, just a quick follow-up on this for anybody that feels like they're in this situation. What I would do is reverse engineer this thing and go, how much more money, this is for people who know their budget like she does, how much more money net to our household budget every month would take us beyond just some breathing room, but would be like, ooh, we got some momentum with this amount

of money. So if that number's 500 for some of you, get after it. That's six grand a year. Yes. Gross. These are all gross numbers. So, you know, I'd like to see in this situation, if a fireman like this, he's got some skill, I'd like to see him aim for 25 to 30 grand additional income a year.

Once you pay taxes on that, that's going to more than give them breathing room and actually allow them to make progress. That's right. This is the way I think you have to separate this out so it doesn't feel so overwhelming. Like, oh, I got to get another job. Well, listen, for a season, yeah, you need to bring in an additional 25 grand, but we don't focus on the work. We focus on what the freedom, what are the options as a result of more money. More money, I'm going to tell you something. I know a lot of rich people and I can break it down to this you know what rich people have tell me freedom options all kinds of options to do whatever the flip they want whenever they want and so we

don't we don't have to aim for that we're not keeping up with the joneses i'm simply saying that if you talk to wealthy people what they love most about being wealthy is not the actual money. It's choices. And they've got some very clear things, choices. They want to give their kids choices for education. So if that's the issue, I got to bring in some more income in their situation because they're already tight and they're living disciplined. So that's half the battle. That is half the battle. That's good. That's good, Ken. I mean, luckily for them, they don't have any debt besides their mortgage. But even with that, to make the progress to pay this off quickly, it's going to be. Yeah. So let's play your point out. So now let's take, let's say they get extra money and it takes care of the kids' education futures. But then you got this sweet couple

that's worked really hard and they've been great parents, great Americans. Well, they want something left over too when they get to 65. That's right. So that additional 25, don't get me started with you and your investment calculator. I know, I know, I know. You start plugging in those numbers for themselves and all of a sudden now they've got a really, really comfortable retirement options when you're old. Yeah, that's, this is very true. And let's talk about this in a, in a bigger picture because she, Sarah kind of hit on something that I think a lot of people feel. They're in baby step four. And there is kind of this feeling like once I hit baby step four, like there should be no, it should, there should be no tight feeling anymore. I should be able to just go and, and sometimes

people hit baby step four and they're not feeling that freedom that options that you're talking about and the truth is some of it can be income like they're facing here some of it can be a season of life because if you're she's a stay-at-home mom but if you've got two kids in daycare if you've got kids in private school Ken, there's different things that can put strain on your budget and baby step four. That is just for a season. And if you can decide, hey, we're going to side hustle for a little while, you will come to that point where there's a clearing in the woods. You know what I'm saying?

That's a great way of saying that. That's really good. That emotionally describes that. You know, because everybody wants to get to that. And little branches hitting you in the face and it's hard to walk. I describes that. You know, because everybody wants to get to that. You'd be like walking through in briars and little branches hitting you in the face, and it's hard to walk. I love that. Then you eventually see that clearing.

That's really good. And that's why the extra income. Yes. Yes, it's hard. Yes, it's inconvenient. But look, that's the reality. I mean, over 40% of Americans have side hustles. There's a reason for it.

Because it's expensive. It's expensive. As my brother used to say when he was little. I know, that's right. Expensive. It is expensive. Things are expensive these days. You got four kids trying to go to college.

You got a kid. You know, all of that matters. If you're in a season of life where you're trying to get pregnant and you're paying for fertility treatment, all these things. And so basically what I'm trying to do in this moment is kind of normalize the feeling that if you are in baby step four and it's a little bit tight, it doesn't mean that you're doing something wrong. It simply means that you have chosen a value for that time period and it's okay. And the solution to that is, hey, maybe we bring in a little bit more money for the short term, or maybe we just accept it's a little tighter right now, but it's only going to be for the next three years. And

then there's the clearing in the woods that we talked about. All right, Ken Coleman, that does it for this hour. All right, stay tuned. We'll be back with you with more on The Ramsey Show. From The Ramsey Network, it's The Ramsey Show. We help people build wealth, do work that they love, and build amazing relationships. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me is Ken Coleman. We are your hosts for the next little bit of time together. If you want to get on the line, you can call. It's a free call.

It's also a live show. So the number is 888-825-5225. We will get you on the line. I'm here to talk money. Ken is here to talk professional development and career growth. We've got David, who's in Palm Beach, West Palm Beach, Florida. That's my neck of the woods. What's going on, David?

Hi, Jade. Hi. Hey. So my question is, is it worth joining the military? No, there's got to be more to that question. Oh, okay. To do, give me a why. Well, given my predicament, I guess you could say my immediate family, we're not that close.

You know, I know everyone has problems and we all love each other. But I think it's going to be good for me to just you know get out of my hometown and you know potentially travel meet new people how old are you I'm 19 and to the coat to the extent that you're comfortable what's going on what what can you tell us that it's making you want to leave your zip code and join the military well my brother you know my older brother he's 22 he uh you know he's had a couple running with the laws and you know i love him he has a good heart uh and my father he's 65 and uh you know he's talked about selling the house you know time and time again and you know, he's talked about selling the house, you know, time and time again. And, you know, I feel like it's eventually going to get to that point. Um, you know, last thing I

want to do is, you know, go overseas and kill somebody. I, you know, I don't, you know, that's not, that's not my whole point of joining. Uh, just want to be able to travel and be a part of, you know, disaster relief work and humanitarian aid. Okay. So here's, that's what I was digging into. Thanks for sharing a little bit of that. Is your mom in the picture? She is, but you know, we, my mom and my father are divorced since I was about, I think seven. We don't live in the same household with her. My brother, my older brother helps her out. However, it does get to a point where you can only help someone as much as you want to help them.

I hear a young man who's craving some stability, some structure. Am I right? Mm-hmm. And I think the military for you provides a paycheck to do the things you want to do. True? Potentially, yes. Yeah, here's what I heard. And I want Jade to tell me what she thinks on this, Jade. an NGO, a ministry, something like that, where he's actually serving people and providing stability

and stepping into brokenness, which I think he's been swirling in for some time. And when he said disaster relief, this is not a burning desire to serve our country in the military. It's not what I'm hearing. Tell me if I'm wrong. I didn't hear that either. Talk to us. I'm not very patriotic. You know, I was raised in a,

you know, a religiously divided household. But fortunate, you know, for that, you know, you know, I was raised, I had Bible study. I, you know, went to my local congregation. You know, I know some brothers and sisters who've served, but for the most part, it was before they started studying the Bible. So was I on the mark or off the mark? If I had a job for you today and that we were overseas and you made plenty to be comfortable and you were serving people in a much less fortunate situation than even you've experienced, would you take that or would you take the same amount of money working in the military? Which one would you take today? The latter, the first option you mentioned. The first option, not the first option not the military not the military yeah so my friend i actually think this is a great idea jade i i actually think this is a kid who

needs to change his scenery i think at 19 this is puts him right in that gap year service year there are countries in the world where every kid coming out of high school spends a year serving their country i if i were president of the United States, I would institute that. I think every American young person coming out of high school ought to spend a year either abroad or in our borders serving because I think it's huge for their development and maturity. So in this case, because you're in a broken home, I'm all for this. So I want Jade to weigh in. But my last two cents are I would be looking at non-government organizations across the gamut here, charity, missionary, whatever,

and where they're looking for a body, somebody who just cares about people. You don't have to be super skilled and super experienced. They'll train you. And I say go abroad and serve. and, uh, and, and serve and don't limit it to just going abroad. You may find something in the United States, but changing your zip code. Love this. Yeah. I think for me, just listening to you, it was clear. It's very clear that you have things that you want to run away from. And I get that. I just wanted to make sure that you had a clear clarity on what you're running towards. Yes.

And I think that, I think it's there. At first, I wasn't sure, but just listening to you throughout the call, I think it's there. I do think that you have a heart to serve. And I think that that'll be developed more as you do this. Yeah, that was all I was looking for is just to make sure that you're not picking anything just to get sure that you're not picking anything just to get out, you know. Yeah, you have too many options at 19 because you only have to take care of you.

So I don't want you going to the military and then feeling like you're stuck there. Yeah, that's right. That's the last thing, even though the structure would be good, the opportunity to serve is there. I don't, I just don't think that's the thing. So when I said NGO, I don't want to insult your intelligence. Yeah, tell them what it means means non-government organization so the idea is there are a lot of so habitat for humanity or uh you know a compassion a world vision a uh uh

basketball without borders you know i mean there's sports there are there's so many non-g excuse me ngos that are doing something good around the world. And quite frankly, they're looking for somebody young. And how does that work? I mean, is there... He applies just like anything else. You apply. It's like a job like anything else. You get a decent salary.

You know, decent. I mean, you know, that's relative, shall we say. I mean, because these are donor are donor funded things so you're not coming out of law school and going to work for a law firm you're going into an organization that is donor funded and it is in the relief space or humanitarian space and so yeah but you're not apples for apples you're getting to travel yes interact with other cultures. Serve, travel, and escape the chaos. Yeah. And make it about other people.

Can you already know, I love if you can take an opportunity that allows you to get out of the United States. I think it's huge. And travel. I love it. I think that is one, as an American citizen, I think one of the most important things you can do is go visit other countries. Go visit third world countries. Go visit underprivileged countries, because you will come back here and go, oh, my. You will kiss the ground you walk on. Isn't that the truth?

You truly, truly will. When I came out of college, I started working on cruise lines. You already know this. My husband and I did 92 different countries. I mean, go to Sri Lanka, go to Malaysia, go to Vietnam, go to Cambodia, and you will come back here and go, oh my goodness, thank you, Lord. And so I love that for this 19-year-old. I think that it's going to be a great opportunity for him to see what else is out there, to learn, to experience other cultures. Here's what he's going to do. He's going to find some peace,

and more importantly, he's going to find some purpose by just exploring. Yeah. I love it. Yeah. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys. Health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer, and it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically-based alternative to health insurance, Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM is a health cost-sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of over $11 billion in medical bills since 1981.

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I'm Jade. Next to me is Ken Coleman, taking your calls this hour about your life, your money, your business, your relationship, your career, whatever's on your mind. We'll be here to help. We'll go to Los Angeles, California, where we've got AJ on the line. What's going on, AJ? Hi, Jade and Ken. How are you both doing? Great, if I do say so myself. line. What's going on, AJ? Hi, Jade and Ken. How are you both doing? Great, if I do say so myself.

Yes. What's going on? Awesome. Awesome. Well, first of all, thank you guys for taking my call. I'm calling because I'm starting a real estate media business here in California. I'm very excited for it, and I have support from friends and family. Just the one thing that keeps bothering me, I guess I could say, is just a fear of AI. I have this fear that AI could essentially replace my work and could make it less valuable. And I really just wanted your guys' opinion on it. Yeah, be more descriptive.

Give me a 30-second description of what your company's service is going to be. What do you do for folks? Drew Real Estate, it is a new company, but we're going to specialize in video work and more lifestyle work for agents who sell higher end properties just to help elevate their brand and make it stand out from the rest of the market. So you're a production company, and you're going to be shooting video of their homes, the inside of the homes, outside, making the homes look great, but also making them look like those big shots on those reality shows. Selling Sunset.

Selling Sunset, thank you. Yes, that's what you're going to do. But you're a video production company. Exactly. Okay, so AI. How is AI going to affect the video production industry? Have you done any homework on this? Have you begun to see trends? So I've just seen things where editing work is being replaced, where a lot of the background work is being replaced, like stuff behind the scenes. So I'm seeing that trickle in and to that part

of it i'm not really seeing it on the front end front end but it kind of worries me well but let's keep playing this out so i'm leading you down the path here so if if ai tools allow you to do the editing or your team to do the editing quicker and better does that replace you or does it enhance your business? I would say it enhances the business. Yes, it does. Absolutely, it does. And so what you have to look at is, okay, so I had cigars with a very successful movie producer about two weeks ago, Jade.

And he told me, point blank, and this guy, he's producing the latest rock movie that's coming out next year. So this guy's big time. And he said to me, and was showing me on his phone, a full movie trailer that was AI start to finish. Not one real person in it. That's wild. All right, now, I bring this up to say in this case if i was an

actor in the actors unions and that's already happening that's why the latest strike happened in large part what is ai gonna is a gonna replace real actors because if you can do a blockbuster action film and not pay an actor 20 million that makes me so mad i'm getting angry sitting here ken so ai would threaten actors no question 100 and he told me as much i'm getting mad you cannot replace create creative people doing creative things i'm just putting that out in the world not to you and he doesn't want to by the way he's not pro that he's just going this is somebody's gonna do it it's gonna be crazy so everybody's gonna have, somebody's going to do it. It's going to be crazy. So everybody's going to have to adjust. All right.

Now, all that to say. No one will ever connect to it. I'm just saying. I'm putting that out there. Someone's going to have to always do the filming. Someone's always going to have to consult the realtors on their brand. AI cannot do what a human doesn't program it to do. Make sense?

Yeah. So I would run it through that. Instead of just letting your fears run wild, go, wait a second, will the human touch be more needed than ever in my industry? And I think the answer is yes. It is yes. AI cannot do what you're going to do. And the truth is, let's put it through, you know, obviously AI is new territory for a lot of folks, but in essence, in many ways, it's not, right? There's always been a tool available to do something easier. That's right. And as professionals, we get to decide, are we going to be the person who picks up the tool or not, right?

And so there's always a vacuum cleaner. Some people don't want a vacuum, so they call a housekeeper. There's always, you know. Or you get that one that just roves around. Yeah, that's right. That's yeah and so i mean right now there there there are more apps than ever before to make you know uh digital uh digital media and all that kind of stuff but some people are like i don't want to learn how to use those apps so they still go to to uh companies that'll do that for them so the the point is, as long as there's tools,

there's always going to be people who go, I don't want to learn how to do that. And you're still going to have the ability to do it for them. Here's my last point on this. AI folks, for our large audience, if you learn how to work with AI and use AI and also find yourself in industries where the human touch will always be premium,

then you're going to be fine. Yeah, I like that. It's going to make us want human more. It is, it really will. I, you know, I'm a creative at heart. I hate the idea. I hate that I'm hearing music that is by not real people. I hate this idea of not real people being actors. I'm like, people need people. If there's nothing we didn't learn from 2020, it's that people need human touch and human contact and humans create art and art is a reflection of culture.

And there's, I can't understand what the world would be like if that continuum was disrupted. Anyway, this is another conversation for another time. But anyway. If it gets to that, you'll find me somewhere at my own restaurant, James, in the Caribbean serving people. Listen, beat me up. Spinning yarns, telling jokes.

Spinning yarns. All right. Let's see if Carl has a yarn to spin in Sacramento. Carl, spin us a yarn. Okay, all right. Can you hear me? Yes, what's up? Awesome.

So I'm 45 years old, married. Nothing safe for retirement, regrettably. I do not own a home. Okay. So currently renting a home. I have about $250,000 in a high interest savings account. And I started a small business about five years ago, which I currently still own. But obviously getting older without, you know any uh backup on the investment or even a home yeah is worrisome um so i've you know obviously and i'm married and i don't want to leave my wife without a home or you know without

some resources in case something were to happen to me sure does she have resources in her name um no nope okay no she's she's same situation She has a good job, but, uh, that, you know, that doesn't last forever. So, um, so anyway, uh, so I've decided it'd be a good idea to sell my business where it's at, uh, so I can start playing catch up on some of those important items. Okay. If you sold it, what would it bring? So after taxes, so after I pay capital gains to Uncle Sam, I'll probably have net about $500,000 left. Okay.

So combined with my $250,000, I'll be at about $750,000 liquid cash that I can deploy in one direction or the other. And then what would you do for work? I'd probably go start another business. It's probably the same thing. And you wouldn't you do for work? I'd probably go start another business. Probably the same thing. And you wouldn't need capital for that? You could just go right to it? Yeah, I'm still going to have a lot of money. The purchase isn't, he's not going to be purchasing all the assets,

so I'll still have some of the assets so I can literally start the same business. Okay, and what do you think you'd earn? I'm sorry, I'm just trying to get the numbers before we hit the clock. No problem. Obviously day one, I'd be at zero, but I think I could probably get to about, I could probably get to about 4,000 net within six months. I could probably within a year, I could be, you know, comfortably, you know, six, six to 7,000 net probably within a year. Okay, good. Worst case scenario, if things didn't go well, because I am pretty established in my industry,

I can go work for another company if I thought change weren't really gaining traction and I could probably get a job pretty easily making, you know, 80 to 100,000. Excellent. So the question is, do you take, what do you do with the 750? Exactly.

Yep. So I'm in, as you guys mentioned, I'm in Sacramento, so nothing's cheap in California. And so just a small modest home in my area, you're looking about $550,000. Okay. Well, nothing special, but it's, you know, it's a week over their head and, you know, it's, you know. The truth is you're going in the right direction. I'd want to stabilize. That's the biggest line item on all of our budgets. It's in the right direction. I'd want to stabilize. That's the biggest line item on all of our budgets. It's rent or mortgage. So I'd want to stabilize that as quickly as possible.

You've got the money. If you can pay for something in cash and not have a payment, I love that for you and start investing the rest. When you get this money together, you need to be investing 15% of your gross every single month. This is The Ramsey Show. You're listening to The Ramsey Show. You're listening to The Ramsey Show. The Ramsey Show question of the day is sponsored by YRefi. It's hard to make progress when you're trapped under an avalanche of defaulted private student loan debt. But YRefi helps you dig out and get

momentum with custom refinancing that's based on your ability to pay and a lump sum payoff option that you could qualify for after 24 months. Go to yrefy.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. Remember, this may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Brad in Connecticut. Back in 2017, we tragically lost our little girl and received a large settlement from a lawsuit. We received $150,000. I am an inspiring trader in the stock market, but I'm afraid to manage and account the size. We are living off of this for income. I don't want to work a normal job. I want to use the power of money to increase my family's wealth exponentially. I would like to do what Dave would do in this situation. Whoa. This is crazy heavy, Brad. I'm so sorry for your loss. Wow. But I'm going to

answer the question because you said I'd like to do what Dave would do. So, Jade, you can edit my best Dave response. Go ahead. Go ahead, Ken. But if Dave were here, he would have a lot of questions about how you're living off $150,000 from seven years ago. So I got questions about that. Number one.

Number two, $150,000 is not spitting off a lot of money. No, I mean, even if you're getting a 10% or 12% return. That's below poverty. Yeah, that's right. That's right. So Dave would have questions about that the math is not working and um this idea of i want i don't want to work a normal job okay don't hate that but the next line is the most confusing in the whole question i want to use the power of money to increase my family's wealth exponentially, but you're not making any money.

You've been living off of a very small settlement. So there's a lot here that's just kind of contradicting. So Dave would say in this situation is increase your income because day trading is extremely risky. It is not a hobby. It is not for people who do not really, really know the game. It is highly speculative. Extremely low success rate. We would say, go get a really good paying job or get a good job at this point and let's work.

Let's add skill, add experience. Let's live on a budget. Let's invest and let that work. Let that money work for you. But I don't like this plan. Yeah. Day trading success rates, less than 5% of day traders are considered successful. Yeah. And most of them quit after two years. Only 1% are successful, and I'll put successful in quotes, successful over a five-year term.

That's, so essentially it's gambling. And to do that with the money from a tragic loss would be just heart wrenching if you lost that. So I would not I would use the money to go towards whatever baby step you're on. And if you need more information on that, you know, that's found at Ramsey Solutions dot com. All right, Ken, let's let's liven it up a little bit. Let's go to Jenny. She's in Gillette, Wyoming. What's going on, Ginny? Hi. In 2004, I had a judgment happen to me and paid off, but one of the credit reports still has it on there. So how do I get that off? Is it important to get off? I just became debt free, so I don't plan on using my credit. I obviously don't feel like that's important. Is it just something I should just drop?

It's probably going to fall off on its own. A lot of times those negative marks on your credit score can take some time to fall off. Some things like bankruptcies and things like that can take up to like seven years to fall off. So in your case, I think your credit score is going to disappear long before this would have fallen off naturally. Most of the time when you pay off all of your debt, your credit score will roll to zero, whether it takes six months or 12 months. It just depends. It's usually somewhere in that time frame. So good. Very good on paying off all the debt. How much did you pay off? Somewhere around one hundred and twenty000. Nice. How long did it take? 15 years. 15 years. Wow. Okay. How's it feel? Amazing. I feel like I can start over again. Like I'm 43 and I feel like I'm just starting my life over. You are. You got a clean slate, girlfriend. I am proud of you.

Very good call. All right, let's keep them rolling. We got Holly in Columbia, South Carolina. What's going on, Holly? Hi, can you hear me? Yes, we can. Okay, hi. Thanks for taking my call.

I really appreciate it. You bet. So we bought a house about three years ago and we thought it was just a cosmetic fixer-upper, but unfortunately it's a lemon. We've been in a lawsuit for the last two years that isn't really going our way. And my question is, should I let the house go into foreclosure? What's the lawsuit? What makes it a lemon? So it has basically so much termite damage that the foundation is not really fixable. Our estimate to fix just the foundation problem,

there's a lot more problems, is over $165,000. Wow. Was there no inspection when you bought it? No, there was. We were lied to by basically everybody involved in the sale, including our own inspectors. Why? Who is gaining from this?

I honestly don't know. We moved to a whole new town across the country and from what I can gather this happens quite often here okay um and nobody ever does anything about it okay what are the lawyers saying are they taking the case or are they like you have no case tell us more about what the professionals are saying. I only found one lawyer who would help us. I've contacted a lot of them since. I don't know if our lawyer is really doing his job or not. He just keeps telling me it's going to be fine, it's going to be fine, but the judge keeps letting everyone out of the lawsuit.

Is it because there's, and I'm not saying this to, I want to be on your side, but I also want to look at this, you know, unbiased. Are they saying, are they letting people out of the lawsuit because they don't think you have a case? The judge let the real estate agents out of the lawsuit because the laws are in favor of the real estate agents that they don't have to find any defects with the house. Sure. But what about the inspection company?

So the inspection company and the termite inspector are still technically in the lawsuit. Okay, good. Because I feel like they would be the ones at fault, not the realtor. Just me looking at this from where I'm at. The sellers are involved in the lawsuit still too, but we probably won't get any money from them. The reason I'm asking about the foreclosure is I got offered a promotion with my job, which I'm currently working remotely, but I have to go back to the West Coast to take the job. And I have to go by the end of the year. And it's a significant promotion. Okay, so you're like, we got to get out of this house. We can't sell it

because it's got this damage. Tell me what you paid for the house. We paid $200,000 for the house. Okay, and if you were to sell it as is, is it still worth $200,000? Because nothing new has happened to the house. It's not. It's worth the land, which is only worth $30,000. Oh, my Lord. Okay. um it's not it's worth the land which is only worth 30 000 oh my lord okay yeah this is uh

in addition to the foundation issues the plumbing doesn't work um they put a new roof on it as part of a selling agreement it's leaking everywhere the company didn't get a permit um if i'm you listen listen based on the laundry list of things you're listing out, there's no way I'm taking a hit for this financially. I would fight this tooth and nail. If you did a reputable inspection, as you're supposed to do, because I asked because a lot of people during this crazy market have waived inspections and done crazy things in order to get property.

But if you went through the proper channels, I would sue the inspection company because they're giving you their seal of approval. And they go through these things. What's your mortgage on this, your mortgage payment? It's $1,200 a month. Yeah. And if you move to the West Coast with the bump in pay, could you absorb that into your budget? We could stay with family for two years and pay off our other student loans and car debt. I'm with Jade. I'd go get a better lawyer. I think there's more fight. You need more fight in you. I'd go somewhere, another town, go find some hot shot

in some firm in South Carolina where they want to really, I mean, I would just get at least a little bit more opinion from somebody who's used to winning I would just get at least a little bit more opinion from somebody who's used to winning these things. I'd fight a little bit longer. Yeah, do not tap out on this. Based on what, if what you're saying is true, I'm going to the mat on this one. This is The Ramsey Show. There's a time in your life and at the baby steps for renting, but you don't want to do it forever because when you rent, you're still paying for a mortgage, just somebody else's. Plus, rent means instability in your budget because it always goes up, never down. So when you're ready to buy, make sure you work with a

mortgage partner you can rely on, Churchill Mortgage. Churchill is Ramsey trusted to help you make the move from renting to home ownership wisely. Churchill understands that when you buy a home the Ramsey way, your mortgage payment will be a consistent, manageable part of your monthly budget. Plus, when your home is paid off, that was your largest expense. Now it's extra money in your pocket and an asset towards turning you into a baby steps millionaire. So get started on the American dream of home ownership today at churchhillmortgage.com. That's churchhillmortgage.com. This is a paid advertisement. NMLS ID 1591. NMLS consumeraccess.org. Equal housing lender. 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100. Brentwood, Tennessee 37027. This is the Ramsey Show.

We're here for you, here to talk about your life and your money. I'm Jade Warshaw. Ken Coleman is next to me. I love getting to host with my good buddy, Ken. I have to say that. I appreciate that. It's always fun to take calls with you as well. Indeed.

All right. Hey, by the way, let me give you a little information here about our Ramsey Trusted Pros. They shop the market for you when it comes to insurance. I told George this the other day. Insurance, I understand the value of it, Ken. It's necessary. We need it. I don't like dealing with it. Oh, okay. Okay. And my family, I don't want to be the one to deal with it. And so I love the Ramsey Trusted Pros because they do it for you. They compare it and shop all the quotes for you so you don't have to do it. Your pro gets out there. They find the discounts.

They bundle the deals. And they do all of this at no extra cost, which is amazing value. They'll make sure that you have all the coverage that you need. And they'll make sure that you have nothing you don't. And I remember we did a checkup the other last year around this time. And it turned out that we did. They were able to get us more coverage for less money. Nice.

And so the Ramsey Trusted Pros, they are interviewed. They're vetted and coached to make sure that they're experts at what they do. OK, and they have your best interest at heart. The best way to remember that is here. We teach you the Ramsey way of how to handle your money and, you know, your assets and that sort of thing. And they understand that you're not going to have to explain them. Well, you know, I do this thing called the baby steps or here's my philosophy with money.

They're going to understand that. So that's what makes it easy. So shop the right coverage based on your individual needs. You can go to Ramseyysolutions.com slash coverage, or you can click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcasts. And by the way, Ken, when we help people with their budgets, when we coach them on ways to find margin,

this is one of the areas that we look at. There's always money here. Whether it be you have too much coverage or you're paying too much for the coverage you have, there's usually a decent amount of money to be found here. Yeah. Whether it be you have too much coverage or you're paying too much for the coverage you have, there's usually a decent amount of money to be found here. So ramseysolution.com slash coverage is where you want to go. All right. I want to go to the phone lines.

We got Dawn. Seattle, Washington is where she's located. What's going on, Dawn? How you doing, Jared? How you doing, Ken? Good. How are you, sir? Well, I'm a little nervous.

Maybe you guys can help me out. We'd like to try. So, I work for the Boeing company. And for the last, going almost two months now, we've been out on strike. So, I fortunately have enough money in my bank account for four months to sit out on the picket line and support my fellow union members and everything. But I don't want to, you know, dwindle that down to nothing. I've been going out looking for part-time jobs, you know, driving for like Amazon, you know, seasonal work and everything. Amazon now says, hey, we're not going to take any more Boeing guys because when you guys go

back to work, we won't have any seasonal drivers. And everybody, I'm contemplating, you know, crossing that picket line, but I don't want to, you know, get myself, you know, in that situation. Well, what would happen? Tell me what would happen if you crossed it today? What would be the penalties or the realities? So reality is you go back to work and you're exiled from, you know, all the work, you know, yourworkers shun you and everything like that they shun you they shun you but do you still work for boeing you still work for the boeing company do you still make the same amount of money still make all that money and everything still get all the stock options or all the benefits all the things everything everything except for you know if you're talking you know talk to the wrong person

you know they're they're not going to help you out on if you need to you know if it's a two-person job yeah screw you i'm not gonna sorry about that but they're there too yeah but what about yeah but what about your what about the what about your superior at Boeing? How are they going to view you when you cross the picket line? Yeah, they're trying to do our job right now. So, but answer my question. I'm walking you right into my answer, okay? What is your superior at Boeing going to do if you cross the picket line today? What would he or she do?

How would they react to you? They would let you come back to work, you know, for sure. Okay, and so what would happen in the scenario you just gave us where it's a two-man job and we're assuming that the union member is mad that you crossed the picket line, and they say, oh, I'm not going to help you out. What happens in reality with your superior if you can't do the job because they're pulling that stuff? Well, in the long run, if you can't do your job, then you will actually be disciplined. Right. And so is this a real scenario where you wouldn't be able to do your job because of a co-worker not wanting to help you?

It could be, yes. I mean, how much of a chance? Give me a chance. One out of 100? 50 out of 100? What are we talking about? I'm going to tell you what I would do. I would cross the picket line today because I like paychecks, number one. I like working for the company, not being a part of the union where I can get held hostage. Oh, by the way, you'd save some money on those union dues too, wouldn't you? Oh, no. You have to pay the union regardless of, you know. Oh, so the entire workforce is union union whether you want to be or not

correct oh well that would have been helpful information okay so i'm sorry about that um i i wouldn't work for boeing anymore i i am not a boy i'm going to catch it for this but i don't care say your stand on business there was a time in America where we needed unions. So at the, I'm not going to get into a long philosophical thing. I'm going to say that there was a time in America when the formation of unions, they were serving a worthy cause. There was need for this. Unions have since become massive political organizations.

And I don't believe that that it's the best thing for business i don't think it's good for capitalism and capitalism works best when you like you don get paid for what you do and you're being held hostage in this situation if i if it were me i don't see any benefits for you crossing the picket line unless there's something you didn't cover sounds to me like it's a no-win for you crossing the picket line unless there's something you didn't cover. Sounds to me like it's a no-win situation. You're going to get paid, but you may end up losing the job, right? Correct.

So I don't want anybody else controlling my ability to do the job. So I'm out. And the end was, but I've been here for 28 years. I don't care. You've got a lot of skill and a lot of experience, don't you? Sure do I do, yes.

I've been called up by multiple different companies, but I would have to relocate to Louisiana and everything like that. But Don, what are your options? If you don't do that, you want to go through this again and again and again? Yeah. I know your answer. You've done it. How many times have you done this in 20-plus years?

This is my third time. You want to keep doing this for the rest of your working career? Not especially. Then I'd get out. At least two more times. Then I'd get out. I understand that. I would change my environment, and it's going to change my life.

True or false? Correct. Then choose positive change. I got nothing else to say. I know you were going to say something. No, I was just going to ask Don, how old are you? 53. Oh, he's a young man.

Yeah, this is just the beginning. You got plenty of time to get out there. Is it, are you married? Married, yes. Okay, and what's, will her job allow her to uproot? And is she willing to go on a new adventure with you? She's, she doesn't work, but leaving our situation and leaving our home is one of those things that I don't know if she's willing to do.

Well, listen, I won't I won't tell you that it's easy because I've done it and it's not easy and it takes time. But I think Ken laid out a very clear picture, which is it doesn't sound like you have a lot of other options. And in this case, the fact that your wife is not working, that kind of creates a clear path for you. There's nothing on her end that's really stopping this from going forward. But yeah, 53, you're young. You got a whole other life. I would be, I'd grow weary of being a pinball and a pinball machine. And that's what union workers are. Sorry, folks. It's the truth. It's just the truth.

And it's unfair. It's ridiculous. Yeah. Ken Coleman said it. If you want to email him about that, you can do that at Ken. I'm just kidding. I won't read it.

That does it for this hour. Thank you, Ken, for your expertise. As always, thank you for the guys in the booth. Hey, head into the Ramsey Network app if you want to finish the next hour. That's where we'll be. Live from the Ramsey Network, it's the Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me is Ken Coleman, extraordinaire, co-host extraordinaire.

That's correct. Say it right. Yeah, that's right. Extraordinaire. That's true. He is quite knowledgeable on all things career and personal growth. And you got the money thing down pat, Ken, if I do. I got some history in sports in there, too.

Got some sports. But here we are inside the network app. It's cushy in here. Oh, that's right. Yeah. It's warm. Got our snuggie on. Yeah, it's tropical. So we're glad that you're joining us inside the app, if you will. Hey, we're still taking calls. The show is still live. So if you want to get on the line, you can. You probably know the number by now.

1-888-825-5225. There you go. Let me say it the right way. It's hard sometimes. It can be. Words can be hard, so can numbers. And you talk all the time. Ken, let's put our money where our mouth is.

Oh boy, I'm not sure I'm ready to commit to this. What are you signing me up for? Well, we're in the app, which means the people watching now are people who know us, they love us, they're committed. That's right. If Ken and I were to do a show together, what would you want to see? I want to know. You put it in the comments. Wow.

She's just throwing polls just said we're just throwing polls we're just gonna branch out and say let's let's jade and ken do something okay um ideas what if we did the news financial news uh-oh and would i have to wear a suit and tie maybe maybe we do it in kind of a a comedic way maybe ken you you deliver your anchorman and i i sometimes the news is so bad you can only help but laugh. Yeah. And we explain it. We explain what's going on. I kind of like that. Who knows? You guys drop your ideas in there. I could be in for that without much prodding.

I like that. We could, oh, and we could have food a part of it. We could call it hot takes and hot plates. Wow. Now she's straight up ideating folks. I'm in. Okay. I'm in. Let's see what the people say and weigh in. In the meantime, we're going to go to the phone lines because that's what we do on this show. We're going to go to Alondra. She's in San Juan, Puerto Rico. What's going on, Alondra? Hello?

Hi. Hi. Thanks so much for taking my call. You bet. I'm a big fan. I'll give it to you sweet, simple. I'm going from step two to step three in the baby steps. And I'm just scared to lose momentum, you know, with the saving and how aggressive I should be very aggressive with my contribution to my retirement to make up for pretty much years of what I'd say is a bad start. Okay. I'm thinking about putting 15.

Now, I thought I heard you say you were going from baby step two to baby step three. Or are you going from baby step three to baby step four so just to clarify baby step three is three to six months of saved expenses an emergency fund and baby step four is investing 15 of your gross income yeah so i i don't know how to like define. I think I'm on a blend of those steps because I have the emergency fund and I have some savings, but I'm trying to stay in order because I know you guys say that's very important. The first thing I need to clear is the last of my student debt, which I have planned to be done with. How much is left on the student loan debt? I have planned okay how much is how much is left on the student loan debt I have nine grand okay and how much do you have saved I have the nine grand ready okay what you waiting on I know it's that bank account

mentality and so when I saw seven be leave the account at once I I was really hesitant I hear you um but I'm gonna do it I'm gonna do it by next month um okay just wanted to get two checks in uh just for mental yeah you're just getting your sanity okay but now if I call back a month from now I'll make sure it's done okay I'm super on it okay I tell you I'm not losing momentum um I'm it's set aside for that that's what it's for um so I'm ready on that okay for the record for America I want America to know if I were in your shoes I'd do it today okay I knew this would come I'm preparing myself for it. Maybe after Halloween. Oh girl, cut it loose. You got to cut it loose. Okay. So you've got the $9,000 for the student loan. And then after, let's pretend you did pay the $9,000 today. What would that leave you in

savings? It would leave me about $35,000. Okay. Oh gosh. Even more reason to do it today. It's not like you're draining your money. I'm just scared when it's a little bit of money. What do you think is going to happen? Because here's what I found. Fear is, fear is usually based on something that's completely illogical or it's just the absence of knowledge. It's fear is usually something that we's just the absence of knowledge. Fear is usually something that we can combat the more information we get. So tell me what you think is going to happen and we can give you information around that. I just like to be overly prepared. My background and my upcoming, I'm used to not having much, so I didn't want to deplete all the resources.

Totally get this. We hear this a lot. Let's play this out. Give us a worst-case scenario. You've got real fear over what Jade told you to do. We can hear it in your voice. You're like, oh, it's like you almost have to talk yourself into it. No, my family, I'm the black sheep of the family.

They fall into a lot of stereotypes. I know this is heard of a lot, but pretty much I'd be responsible for my mom and my dad, my brother and my sister, everyone in their own path. Why would you be responsible for them? I wouldn't be. I just feel that moral obligation. I do have that separation in my mind. I'm not throwing any money at that anymore. Wait a second. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Okay, hold on. You unfortunately or fortunately gave me too much information. So I want to lean in something. She's the strong one.

No, she actually sees herself as the shamed one. And I think it's your shame. You said you were the black sheep. And that's neither here nor there. We don't have time to unpack that. But I think that is what is making you feel like you owe this responsibility because of grief you have caused them or shame you have caused them, and now it's hanging on you.

Am I right? It's a on you. Am I right? See, that's a deep hole. But I want to say on the retirement question. Oh, no, you can, but here's my point. I'm trying to keep us there, but I'm saying you're afraid of doing what Jade told you to do. We already gave you our answer. It's not going to change. You could call Jade a year from now, and she's going to say the same thing yeah so i'm getting that that you're but you're afraid of

something really bad happening if you write that check if you will and what i'm trying to get you to say is what's that worst case scenario that if you do what jay told you to do that the apocalypse hits and all of a sudden you're destitute. Give me something real. And as casual talk as I get, man, I just don't want to see a small bank account. That's my point. So that was my entire point of that exercise. The worst thing, truly the worst thing that can happen is you lose your job or something happens and you're disabled. And at the end of the day, I'd want to have less debt if that's taking place um sorry we didn't mean to go and conto on you with the family situation and all that stuff but i mean we did so like she doesn't owe them anything

it's um i'm glad that i'm conservative like this because i'm willing to do it yes it's in my notebook and once i write it down like there's no going back. We're just going to break your framework a little bit. Okay, we're going to break your framework a little bit because we want you to get there. We don't want it to be in the future. We want it to happen now. Take that money, pay off the student loans. The $35,000 is going to be just good for your emergency fund. And then after that, it's investing 15%. Don't go beyond that until your house is paid off. You are listening to The Ramsey Show, and it's time for me to talk about my favorite topic, Ken Coleman. What is that?

It's the budget. Oh, you're the budget queen. Every dollar, holla. Yeah, I love talking about budgeting. And truly, you know, when every dollar came out back in the day about budgeting it and truly you know when every dollar came out back in the day i think it was 2015 or 2016 i couldn't wait to get on it because it made budgeting so much easier no more pen and paper no more spreadsheets no more me doing something over here and having to combine with sam over here or you remember the checkbook registers

i do but it's a faint memory the line you had to write the stuff on was so small yeah and my handwriting is terrible oh yeah so it was always a real guess as to what that actually was for and you have to balance the checkbook remember that oh my gosh no young people don't we got a bunch of people who watch us on youtube listening in in the app. They're like, what are these Stone Age folks talking about? Yeah. Well, it used to be that way. Does that involve a chisel and stone? My feather pen.

But now there's every dollar. It's digital. It's on your phone. It's on your desktop. It makes it easy. Trust me, it's the best way to budget. It helps you create a budget every single month, a new one every month and stick to it. Every dollar makes planning your spending, tracking your transaction and saving very,

very easy. Okay. It's all in one easy to use app. It fits in with your busy lifestyle. And at the end of the day, all we want is for you to make a plan for your money and keep a pulse on that throughout the month, right? That's the daily habit we want. We want you to make progress on the baby steps and every dollar is tantamount to that taking place, okay? It's the foundation of everything that we teach. So download EveryDollar for free. It's in the App Store or if you have Android, you can go to Google Play or if you're listening right now on YouTube or podcast, you can click that link that's in the description. But EveryDollar is the foundation of everything we talk about. Matter of fact, I did an EveryDollar webinar today. And we do these throughout the month. We do maybe a couple of

months. And we'll get in there and show you guys all the features and really how this thing works. Truly, there's more than meets the eye. I can tell you right now, if you've never clicked on the left side of the screen where there's all those little icons and stuff, start clicking those because there's gold beneath those icons that really will help you with your budgeting. And so if you don't have it, get it. If you have the free version, upgrade to premium. It's worth it. I'm telling you that right now. All right, Ken Coleman, let's move on.

We got John in Seattle, Washington. What's going on, John? John, you there. We got John in Seattle, Washington. What's going on, John? John, you there? We got you. John, how are you? Doing good. Hey, thanks for having me. Hey, so I'm 31 years old.

I have a 13-month-old and one more on the way due in December, and my wife and I both want two more after that. But my question is about Baby Step 5, and I want to invest in my kids' college fund, but I'm not sure how that works, especially if they choose not to go to college. How do I use that money? Can I reclaim it back? Is it their money forever? How does that work? Yeah. I mean, with the 529, there is what I'll say less guidance as far as how much money you need to put in it. That's really up to you. It's up to whatever you or you and your spouse decide. And the key with baby step five is whatever amount you decide to put in it,

you need to be talking with your kids and say, okay, here's the plan. We plan to pay for your school up to X amount of dollars, or we plan to match you dollar for dollar. Whatever the plan is, make sure the kids know that going in so that if they have a portion of it that they need to meet, there's time to do that. And so with baby step five, it's however much you think that you can put in for your budget and however much you want to put in is basically how that works. Now, if you were to overfund it, the good news is you can change the beneficiary. So it can go, if the oldest kid didn't use all

of his and you've got a kid coming after him, you could roll it to that kid. Um, and it's not just for college. It's K through, you know, K through 12, if you do private schools and things like that. And, uh, at the end of the day, it can roll into a Roth IRA. It would, it rolls at the same rate, uh, the same max that you would for whatever that year's max is. And you can't go beyond that, but it could roll over to that eventually. Would that Roth have to be in their name or if they don't use it, can I roll it into my own Roth IRA or would I have to roll it into a Roth IRA that I open up in their name?

It would go to the beneficiary. Yeah, it'd be in their name. So the beneficiary has to continue to be my kids. And then I guess the other question that kind of piggybacks off of that is, if I want to pay off my home early, I mean, if I want to be selfish and pay off my home early, is there any reason why I shouldn't do that? We owe about $175,000 on our house. And to me, that makes more sense than... Sorry? You're saying instead of contributing to the five 29. Yeah.

Yeah. Um, I mean, here's the thing. Don't think of it as a selfish thing. If you're considering paying off your house, you just have to figure out between, uh,

you and your spouse, like what are your values? What? Cause you don't can and weigh in here. You don't have to pay for your kid's college. I want to say that loud and clear. It's a gift. It's a gift and it's a privilege.

So if you guys decide, hey, we're not doing that, you guys are on your own, make sure to talk to them about how to go to school and pay for it on their own. Just don't leave them high and dry in that way. But yeah, I agree with that. You've got to take care of you two and your financial future first. You're older, you got a lot more on the line than they do, and there are other ways. And here's the other thing, you know, there are ways to go to college for very little or nothing, or we're now increasingly seeing more ways to get qualified to do work that has nothing to do with college. So

from that standpoint, you just got to have that perspective, Jade. I'm glad you brought that up. Let's take care of us first. And going back to the 529, let me also just throw this out here because this was a while back. A guy called in and they had completely overfunded the 529s to the point that even if they were siphoning it over to an IRA,

it still wasn't going to drain the account. And I mean, at the end of the day, you take the hit, you take the 10% hit because you're not using it on education. And it just, it's at that point, it just becomes taxable income. And so you're maybe taking a tax hit there because you have to pay taxes on it. But do you see what I'm saying? You're not, you're not as locked in as you think you are. Is there, is there a a hit if you if you have too much in a 529 and want to roll that over i'm saying if you had if you overfunded a 529 and you wanted to pull it out for non-education expenses oh okay so i mean obviously i don't recommend that but i'm just playing worst case scenario here let's say you overfunded it and you had oh my gosh we got

three hundred thousand dollars in the 529 you know okay like yeah i'm gonna pull that out and i'll maybe take the hit on it and now the money is it's a good problem to have in that scenario exactly exactly no one's really griping about it too much yeah i mean i always gripe about taxes to be clear i always gripe about taxes but i do realize they must exist yeah they must exist but that's a very very very good question oh okay let's uh let's go to tony i think we can we can help him out tony you're against the clock what's going on buddy tony you're not there no hit uh let's go to three do we got him there hear me yeah we got him what's going on can you guys hear me yeah cool i'm from la um i'm currently 28 years, and I am engaged to the woman of my dreams.

All right. You know, we shared that, you know, I really, like, love, like, the Ramsey show, listening to a long time. And, you know, both my fiance and I, we share the vision of, you know, building wealth. So anyways, we just want, we have a couple, we have one problem, and I was wondering if you can help me with the math. So our dilemma is, do we either, we're currently renting in a one bedroom apartment and for a little while, since we don't plan on having kids, like my fiance and I were totally fine.

We're kind of living in a small space for now and just save money. So my question to you is, should we keep renting until we have enough down payment for, you know, like, you know, like a big house or should we buy a small house right now and then you know just live in there do you have the money to put a down payment on a small house

uh right now we have about 250 000 saved up okay good and i know like yeah but i know paying rent um every month is kind of chipping away you away on how much we can actually save more. Are you out of debt? Are you out of debt? Yes. We currently don't have any debt. Okay. So the $250,000, is that including an emergency fund?

Yes, it's including everything. Okay. So let's pull aside what would be the emergency fund because we don't want that included in the down payment. And let me tell you something. If you can jump into real estate, jump in because it's not necessarily something you start out on top. Everybody doesn't start out with a million dollar house. It's a ladder that you build your way up. Real quick, we do not want them going in two separate people on this mortgage

because they're not married right now. Oh, I missed that. Oh, Ken Coleman, thank you. I thought you were going to get there. I didn't. I missed it. We don't want that. That could be really nasty. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. See, Ken, you're not over there smoking a cigarette. You got me. You got me. I got your back. Listen, Tony, it ain't time. If you want to buy a house together, you need to get married.

There you go. Period. Thank you, Ken Coleman. I got it. This is The Ramsey Show. You're listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me is Ken Coleman, and we are taking your calls. Listen, it's a pleasure for us to take your calls.

It's a privilege. Thank you for the things that you share with us on air. It's a live show. If you want to get involved, you can do that by calling the number, 888-825-5225. All right, we've got Joe, who's in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. What's going on, Joe? Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call.

You're welcome. So I was just wondering how you would go about navigating asking for a promotion in the workplace and how to do it in a professional manner. Yeah. Tell us your situation. So I'm 27, about to be 28, and I work as a manufacturing engineer in a medical device facility. And I've been in the position for over three and a half years now. Okay. And I've had a couple, uh, management changes while I've worked there and I wasn't given any opportunities with my last boss. And when my last boss got promoted,

uh, one of the senior engineers that I'd previously worked with got promoted to my manager. Him and I haven't had the greatest relationship when we were working together, and he was not my manager. Now that he's my manager, I kind of feel like maybe he's holding some of our past experiences against me in terms of opportunity. Yeah, tough situation there. The answer to that question, because I think there are a lot of people that are wanting to know the answer. So I want to address it generally. And then I want to come back specifically to your situation because that throws in a promotion, ask for a growth plan. And the reason I do this is because it's A, proactive, and B, it also gives your immediate superior an opportunity to weigh in and consider it and not just deal with a, hey, I'd like a raise, or what do I got to do to get a promotion? And it puts them in a tough position because many times the direct report, who we report to, isn't the only one in on that decision.

So I posture it this way because now we're going to walk in and we hope we have an annual review. If you don't have an annual meeting, ask for it. This is where you go in and you go, number one, I'd like to grow here. But I also know that that comes with some things that need to be measured. So I want to throw this at you and have you take this and do what you want with it. And let's create a process by which we measure my performance. So where can I get better? What are some things that I need to, some skills that I need to, so I can do some get better? What are some things that I need to, some skills that I need to, so I can do some things better? What are some skills I can add to my tool belt, if you will?

And then can I get some more responsibility? And how do we measure that? And if we do that, you know, what does it look like for me to have an opportunity to advance on the org chart as well as more income? And then also say, hey, I've done some homework on comparative pay. Bring that to the table and say, hey, I'd like to be competitive, but I know that this is going to take time. That's a posture of proactiveness. There's some humility there, but there's also some integrity to the information you're bringing to the table

and how you're coming about it. That's the way I would do it. Now, in your situation, I wouldn't even dream of having this conversation with this guy until you get things right. Yeah. And I think that that's what you got to decide. Are you willing to sit down with this guy who was your co-worker before and you all had problems? Now he's your leader and we've not resolved the problems are you willing to have the difficult conversation because I gotta tell you this is nasty yeah this is not a fun conversation now if you're willing that's the first question I mean what's that look like Ken he's got to say

I'm willing to say I had something to do with this like I've been married 26 years come on you know where I'm going I know I already know where you're going. I gotta be willing. When Stacey and I have an argument, I can promise you there's two of us in the tango. Yeah, I played a part in this. So I gotta come in and go, whether I intentionally upset you or not, Stace,

I can acknowledge that I was a bonehead when I did this or said this, right? Yeah. But that's difficult. It's not fun. All right. So in this situation, is he willing to say there were two of us in this relationship? Coworkers is a relationship.

It is. So that's step one. Step two is for you to actually own your stuff and you lead and say, hey, I got to tell you something. Let's be honest. There's an elephant in the room whenever we're together. And I want to own my part of the elephant. And I'm only here to talk about my part.

But here's why I'm here. Because I want to grow in this organization. And I know that growing in this organization, you hold the keys to that in a lot of ways beyond my own performance. If you're willing to step into that, because what you're going to find really quickly if you do that is whether or not he wants to play ball. Well, let me play. If he doesn't want to.

What if the guy acts like the only reason you're apologizing is because you want to get ahead? Then I'm out. I already know that this person doesn't want to be mature and doesn't want to resolve. But that's the sign that I need. I guess that's true, yeah. So my strategy on this, Jade, is to find out, is this redeemable?

Mm-hmm. What do you think he'll do? Yeah, that's a good question. Joe? Joe, what's he going to say if you do that? So, I have had this conversation with him. So, I guess we'll say I'm not the only person that has had run-ins with my manager before. Okay. So he's the common denominator. No, we get that. But how did he react when you brought this up? Well, so before, before he became my manager, they actually offered me if I wanted to go under him or go to a different position within the company.

And I decided for my career growth and my path that although personally with him, we had issues the way I wanted to go in my career was in the position under him because I'd be doing what I went to school to do. So he's, yeah, he's, he's on the rung of the ladder. He's above you and you want to keep climbing, but you didn't my question joe i'm going to try one more time when you had this conversation with him what did he how did he react just tell me uh he said he would put those things in the past and we agreed to move on uh but this conversation was probably about two years ago and you don't think it's been buried yeah i mean yeah you do not think it's been buried no i don't i don't think it's been buried completely i think what do you think you're a better job of judge jade is over here to my left

she's she's pensive folks she's she's percolating over here i wish i knew more about the things that transpired because listen if you cussed me out it's gonna be hard for me to move on you know what I mean like it depends on what took place um and so I don't know what that was but you know do you feel this okay okay let's go there do you feel we got real we gotta do this real quick these are gonna be fire I'm trying to get judge jade her verdict Okay. Did he disrespect you, in your opinion, to the point that you feel he truly does owe you an apology? Yes or no? Yes.

Okay. And he's not done that? No, he did do that in the conversation. So he apologized? He has apologized. And you've apologized? apologized yeah but what has happened real quick give me 10 seconds what's happened in the last two years it makes you feel like he's not buried this give us something specific um i i just i think he could i think if it was buried he he'd have a better lookout for me, a little better. All right, I've got to tell you something.

I'm going down the middle on this one, Judge. I am, too, because here's the thing. I think you need to have the conversation that I laid out. Let's see how he reacts. I do, too. And the fact of the matter is, Ken, and you know this, just because you work with people don't mean you have to like them. And so it cut me.

Well, I know that you bite your lip every time you get in the studio with me. But I'm just saying. So, yes, you're a real pro. It's very possible that the two of you just happen to be oil and water and you don't like each other. Yeah. And as long as you can work together, that's okay. You know? Yeah, like you got to get over it.

And I think you got to get to the bottom of whether or not this guy's holding you back or not. And the only way to do it is the first scenario that I laid out for the general audience. Yeah. Say, hey, I want to grow. I mean, if Ken and I can make it work, anybody can make it work. We got to stop saying that because people think like, hey, listen, we actually go to dinner together with our spouses. We really do. We are friends for real. We just like making jokes. We do like making jokes.

It's kind of boring if we never make any jokes. I know, that's right. Can't be serious all the time. That's true. But I do think you make a good point. You can be an adult, and that doesn't mean you have to be someone's friend. That's right. And as long as you're cordial to each other and you're not purposely trying to hurt each other on the job. This is The Ramsey Show. This is The Ramsey Show. Thanks for hanging out with us. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me is Ken Coleman, our Ramsey scripture and quote of the day.

Galatians 6.4 says this, But let each one test his own work, and then his reason to boast will be in himself alone and not in his neighbor. All right. And then Lou Holtz said, It is not the load that breaks you down. It's the way you carry it. I know that's right. I know that's right. And then Lou Holtz said, it is not the load that breaks you down. It's the way you carry it. Yeah. I know that's right.

I know that's right. Do it one way and you're a little tired, but you can make it. Do it another way and you're limping. Yeah. Breaking stuff. I mean, that happens with money, right? Well, I think that's the genius of the baby steps.

Yeah, they're doing it the wrong way. You do it that way, you can get out of the burden. I think it's a great quote. It is a good quote. Okay. To the phone lines we go. Lafayette, Louisiana. We've got Caitlin on the line.

What's going on, Caitlin? Hey, I am so glad y'all were able to take my call. My question is, do we get rid of a car note if it's our only reliable vehicle? Well, can you pay it off? I mean, there's that option as well. How much do you owe on it? So we owe 18. Kelly Blue Book says it's worth 25 to 26. We have other debt, you know, credit card debt that we're trying to pay off um i have everything written out yeah tell me about tell me how much debt total and you can kind of break it down for us okay so total um without the car it's about 25 000 in credit card debt. We have a small personal loan. And then $18,000 on the car.

And then obviously our mortgage. Well, here's the thing. When you told me it was worth more than you owe, that for me was kind of like, ooh, if you're trying to get out of debt, that's a little bit of extra cash. And it might be a way for you to get out of this car, get out of the car note and still turn around and buy something a little bit cheaper. Right. So for that reason, I might consider this. Let me find out more information though. What's your income? Okay. So our income is roughly 5,600 after I just started all of this, like within the last week or two, but I've, you know, done the every dollar app, um, put our emergency savings fund and a high yield savings account. Very good. Um, so after all of that, it's a, it's about 5,600 a month, you know, give or take depending

on my second job income, my husband's overtime, all that. Good. My second job income, my husband's overtime, all that. Okay, good. So the way we teach this is the things that have motors in them, the things that are going down in value, it shouldn't be any more than half of what you take in annually. And so you're not breaking that rule here. But there is an opportunity here for cash, which in your situation I kind of like uh so you're you're new to the every dollar thing uh if i understand correctly aside from the from the car

you've just got twenty five thousand dollars of other debt is that right yes okay how quickly can that be paid off um so i put it into the debt calculator that in y'all's like on the website. And it says if we throw everything we have towards that debt, like outside of our car within like a year and a half to two years. That's crazy. That's way too long. Because then you tell me that you're making 67 a year gross and that's not including side hustles and overtime and everything like that? Right. Roughly. OK, so to make another I mean, could that account for another?

I know. I don't know. A thousand dollars a month. Right. Maybe. OK. And so that's twelve thousand dollars. That alone is twelve thousand dollars a year. And we haven't even talked about the margin that you have already. So what I'm getting at is if you go at this intensely, which don't get me wrong, hey, you're new to this. So I'm not trying to, you know, bust you up right here. But no, I understand. The idea is we got to move with intensity.

And so for you, this looks like we got to find an extra $2,000 a month to do this in a year. Right. Okay. And right right you can find that yeah between two people yeah we're working on it yeah it's like our our main goal right now is to get all of this taken care of and my like we're both on the same page we're totally on board with the budget. So, like, you know, my husband will go with whatever I think is best. Honestly, this was just, the car was our last hang-up as far as debt goes because his truck, we did pay cash for it. But it's not really reliable as far as, like, bringing kids to extracurriculars because we live in a real rural area. Okay.

Well, what's the payment on the car? What's the payment on it? So $439 a month. Ooh, that's tough. That's a lot of money. Right, yes. If you can do all of the debt in less than two years, I'd say, yeah, you can keep the car.

If you look up and that's not what's happening, you're going to have a small window on the time period where you're going to get value for this car and when it's going to become less than what you owe. Do you see what I'm saying? Okay. So you got to play this the right way. Part of me, if I were you, I'd go, let me just get out of this car, get out of this car. No, I'll go buy a $7,000 car, find something reliable, Ken, because we know they're out there. Oh, yeah. And then you've got $25,000 to pay off.

And trust me, when you get going, you get on that moving sidewalk, you're going to be out of this in less than a year. And then you'll be able to say, okay, let's add to that $7,000 car. Can we save up $3,000 right quick? And now before you know it let's add to that $7,000 car. Can we save up $3,000 right quick? And now before you know it, you're in a $10,000 car. Because when these cars are this low in value, Ken, they're not dropping in value as quickly anymore. Yeah, because you've got margin on this car, I would take that as a gift. I agree with Jade. I personally would also sell the car because it shocks you into this system.

Good call. I'm a guy that likes to shock his body into a thing. Like if I'm going to start something new, a new hobby or something, there's no gradual for me. Okay. So put you in a bathtub, drop a cord in. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like if I'm going to try something, so I was just talking to you on the break about some nutritional thing. Yeah, that's right. I'm going to go all in instead of try it one day. I'm going three days because I want to push myself to a place of commitment.

I like that, yes. I guess another word would be conviction. Well, you're not just like dipping a little toe in just to see. You're jumping all the way. I'm a burn the ships guy. Yes. I like that. There's no retreat no retreat so selling the car in my mind is we're in we we committed because because we just decided

that we're gonna take the nicest thing that we own outside of our house and we're gonna turn it in uh-huh and we start driving something that's not great we're gonna hope that uh dad's truck doesn't break down when he takes daughter to volleyball or whatever it is and we're gonna hope that uh dad's truck doesn't break down when he takes daughter to volleyball or whatever it is and we're just going to adjust we're gonna hunker down and we're gonna grit through this so that when we come out on the other side we're talking about transformation yeah so i'm only all in like when i ran that first half marathon i went from couched i had a two hour goal it was an extreme goal and i trained like because it was the only way i was gonna I'm only all in. Like when I ran that first half marathon, I went from couched. I had a two-hour goal. It was an extreme goal.

And I trained like that because it was the only way I was going to actually do it. Do you understand what I'm saying? Well, you're creating a new normal and a new ecosystem for your life. And what I think, Ken, is I think we don't give ourselves enough credit for what we're actually capable of doing. I agree. We tell ourselves, oh, I can't do that. That's going to be hard. That's going to be too uncomfortable.

But the truth is humans are very adaptable and we actually have the ability to adapt very quickly. Like we have to. It's part of who we are. A lot tougher than we think we are. So much tougher. Let me tell you, you shock yourself into this. Like Ken is saying.

Sam and I did that. We sold off one of our vehicles and we said, oh, we told ourselves temporarily we're going to be a one-car household. Right. And we got so used to it without even realizing. We thought we would never get used to it. Right. We got used to it so quickly.

We ended up being a one-car household for over a decade. It became the new normal yeah you adapted to your point it's a really great point and i i do think we're the most adaptable organism on the planet yeah we humans and i think that there's there comes a time where um you have to truly push all the chips i'm using all the metaphors yeah go ahead well i i just think in this case i'd sell the car because I think it forces you to really commit to, this is going to be hard. Because paying off debt, we never tell anybody that this is going to go lickety split.

No. Like, it sucks. What we tell people to do sucks. That's why most people aren't doing it. But that's also why we're like, hey, fully commit so you can make the hard part go fast. Oh, I know. I'm a guy that ripped a Band-Aid off. Don't drag it out.

Okay. Then you feel every little hair pull out when you rip the Band-Aid slow. Rip the Band-Aid off. Right now. Hey, thanks to the people in the booth. Thanks for listening. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be back next time.