The Ramsey Show - App - We’re House Poor… What Do We Do? (Hour 3)

Episode Date: August 11, 2022

Dave Ramsey & Rachel Cruze discuss: Balancing generosity with getting out of debt, What it means to be house poor, Whether or not to take an offer for a farm.   Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6   Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. We help people build wealth, do work that they actually love, and create real, amazing relationships. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author. My daughter is my co-host today. As we answer your questions about your life, open phones at 888-825-5225. Markel is with us in Sacramento.

Hey, Markel, how are you? Hi, Dave. Hi, Rachel., how are you? Hi, Dave. Hi, Rachel. How are you guys? Great. How can we help? I had a question for you this afternoon. I am a Christian, and I'm a worship pastor at a church.

And I'm feeling for that. I've heard you in the past talk about while you're in baby step two and three, that while you do pay your tithe, because that comes off the top, that perhaps extra generosity above that is not always recommended. My church can sometimes require of us staff to participate in things like backpack drives or shoeboxes at Christmas, above and beyond, because they don't want us asking our people to do something that we wouldn't do. And I think that's a good idea in general.

But most specifically, I want to know how you reconciled the story of the widow's might, where it seemed as though Jesus commended her for giving all that she had. Like, it doesn't seem like she was in a position of strength as she gave. I just want to know how you thought through that story. Well, there's several things. I'll send you a copy of the book, The Legacy Journey, where we address several of these things in detail. It's the only Christian book I've done, and I'll send you a copy of it.

I think you'll find it interesting. Thank you. The widow's mite is the only time in scripture that we could make the argument that the offering comes not tithe but an offering which is above the tithe we distinguish as christians which which is what you're doing a difference between offerings and tithes okay tithe is off the top before you do anything else first fruits from proverbs. And now you and I are having a doctrinal discussion, not a legalistic discussion, okay? Yes, sir.

For those of you listening in to Mark Elinor, okay? So tithe is before I do anything as an evangelical Christian. And then offerings are everywhere in Scripture are from surplus. And you can make the argument easily, logically, that while you're in debt, you don't have surplus. And while you don't have an emergency fund, you don't have a surplus. Now, that's where I, you know, and past baby step three is when I started doing other kinds of giving in addition to my tithe. Okay, once I got there. Because I need to take care of my own

family first or i'm worse than an unbeliever now there's lots of interpretations and fun reading on the widow's might but if you want to reach down um it but there's a real thing there where he's where jesus is condemning the Pharisees for having a widow do anything in giving. And so if you reach down late in that passage, you'll see him, woe to you, scribes and Pharisees. He starts going after them as having forced this widow to do this. And it comes more off of maybe the teaching,

and there's argument about this among theologians, which is a valid discussion or a valid argument. Okay. But generally in North American evangelicals have used the widow's might to raise money for a building. Right. And they stand in the pulpit and go, well, people give, they give sacrificially. Look at And they stand in the pulpit and go, well, people give, they give sacrificially.

Look at what Jesus commended the widow. And they give sacrificially like that. And I think if you dig into that, you're going to find that might not have been the actual tone. It might have been him condemning them for forcing this widow, because a widow and an orphan in the Old Testament should be taken care of, not milked. Correct. Correct. Correct.

And so, you know, you would know that basically, I can tell already in our discussion, you would know that we have a mandate as believers to take care of widows and orphans. Right. And so anytime I'm teaching generosity, you know, I'll say, hey, 58% of single moms live below the poverty level. Now, they're not technically widows, but, man, there's a real case to be made for that. And I'll go even a step further. If a guy is deployed overseas and his wife is here and he's serving in the military, we ought to be taking care of her. You know, not just the government.

We in the church ought to be taking care of her and her family and making sure they're okay. You know what I mean? We just have a mandate to love each other well with money in these situations. And so it appears that since the widows – here's the problem. Scripture is always consistent. Agreed? Yes. God does not come cross-purposes with himself. And you can't find – and i've studied it for 30 years i can't find anywhere else in scripture that an offering is done out of sacrifice it's always done out of surplus

except the widow's might which makes it suspect the way we're interpreting it i agree i agree would you as one more maybe thing, the story of Elisha where he went to the widow and the son and she was going to make the bread and die. And he said, no, give it to me first. Any thoughts on that particular passage? Yeah. You know, again, that's a valid point. And of course, we know that he then brought her son back to life. Her son died. And the prophet laid hands on him, and he came back to life. So there's something in that message that's in there, too,

and the whole Jezebel and the prophets of Baal and that whole story right in there of Elijah. Elijah, in one minute, he's king of the world. In the next minute, he's king of the world. The next minute he's in full depression mode. And, um, so there's, uh,

uh, you know, and how that comes into this, how, how that comes into play on that lack. Um, now that, that was,

that was someone that was a person taking care of another person. That was not a donation to the backpack fund. You got it. And so that, that, that would not be an offering. that would just be one of us loving each other well and so you know i got i got i got two dollars and i'll share one of my dollars with somebody who's hurting um you know we're both broke but um hey we're gonna we're

gonna do this together that's just a love and kindness and compassion those kinds of things that's not an offering is when i'm giving to a a cause to an organization to um you know and i'm all about backpacks and christmas boxes we do all of them uh so i'm not not against any of that and again i i am firmly convinced god's not going to be mad about any of this when we get to heaven yes correct i'm firmly convinced he smiles at all generosity uh i i but i am also i'm convinced that sometimes people get manipulated on this subject a lot and pushed around so um i'm not mad at your church for suggesting you guys do this i understand why they're doing it i think it's a i think i get it i i uh it would seem hypocritical to ask all the people to do it and you guys not be doing it.

I mean, that makes sense to me. Yeah, and if it's a small dollar amount, Markel, I mean, who's to say, yeah, put it in the budget and do it. I mean, again, it's not a legalistic thing. But if you make $50,000 a year and you give $10,000 to the building fund as an offering and you got $10,000 in credit card debt, that just doesn't sit in my spirit right. It just doesn't feel like truth. Yep. And not that truth is a feeling. I don't believe that.

But that's a great discussion. Hang on. I'll send you a copy of Legacy Journey. Any of you that want to read more on that stuff, did a whole treatment on some of these different arguments on the widow's mite in there. Because it's a fun discussion, as long as everybody doesn't get torqued out about it and mad.

And so try to avoid that. Markell's posture was wonderful. Yeah, absolutely, Markell. Thank you. Thank you very much, Markell. rachel cruz ramsey personality number one best-selling author. My daughter is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Have you had enough? Enough of waking up at 2.30, worried about how you're going to fill up your tank? Enough of wondering how you're going to put supper on the table? Enough of wondering how the key lights

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ramseysolutions.com slash enough. Caitlin is with us in Salt Lake City. Hi, Caitlin. How are you? Doing well. How about you guys?. Hi, Caitlin. How are you? I'm doing well. How about you guys? Better than we deserve. What's up?

Awesome. Well, my husband and I are basically house broke, and I'm stressing out, and I don't really know what to do. Okay. How much is your house payment? It's about $1,450 every month. My husband works full-time, earning about $54,000 every year. I'm home full-time with our two boys, and we're going to be starting homeschooling in the fall.

Okay. How much debt have you got other than the house? Actually, we're debt-free. As soon as those government checks came in, we paid off the loss of our debt. I quit my job in May 2020, and I've been home ever since. Okay. Well, something has to change doesn't it his income or that house because you bought that house based on you working

we we bought it about uh excuse me back in 2016 based on you based on both of you working. Right. And when your income stopped for you to come home, that made you not be able to afford the house. Right. So either we could develop some kind of a game plan to get his income up substantially and quickly, or we need to move down in-house. Okay.

Because his take-home pay is what? Four grand? Around there, I think. Yeah. You're approaching 50% of his take-home pay as your house payment. That's not sustainable. Right. It's stressing me out.

Yeah. You don't have any room to. I can tell the distress in your voice caitlin um what's his feeling with everything does he feel the same sense of urgency and stress and weight that you're feeling yes like he he does not like it um but we don't know i mean we want god to be in everything that we're doing we just don't know. I mean, we want God to be in everything that we're doing. We just don't know what that looks like specifically. I can help you with that.

The blessings of the Lord have no sorrow added to them. So we can safely say this house is not a blessing. It has been for some time. Darling, it has sorrow added to it away it has sorrow added to it it has sorrow added to it by definition biblically when you have sorrow added to something it is not a blessing from god that's true by definition now it would it could have been a blessing earlier when you had both incomes coming in, and it was a reasonable house payment as a percentage of your take-home pay. But the past is the past.

You all have made other decisions now. And so, you know, there's three possible options because the math is not going to change until you change it. You're going to go back to work, or he's going to increase his income dramatically doing something different, or you're going to sell the house. What's he do for a living? He's a team leader at a financial company.

A team leader at a financial company makes 50 grand? He makes $50,000? Yeah, but he's a manager of the agents and teams and stuff. Of the what? He's a team leader of about 15 people, agents that take calls for the financial company. Okay. All right. How long has he been doing that uh 10 years okay all right well there has been a dramatic shift in employment in the marketplace in the past two years and what people and what people are making okay now not everyone has experienced wage increase because

the overall wages have only increased about five and a half percent but we've seen entire sectors of the of the workplace their incomes double for instance developers and programmers okay software engineers there they have gone a lot of them have gone from 100K to 200K, depending on the category that they're in and what their skill level is, as an example. Okay? And there's other stuff out there.

I mean, entry-level stuff has gone from $10 to $20, and in some cases to $30 an hour. And it sounds like your husband is in a dead-end thing here, and he may need to rethink what he's doing. This might be his wake-up call on his career path. And so, I mean, if he could be on a career path that says, hey, when I take this job and then I do this thing, I get this raise, and I do that thing, I get that raise,

and you can see your way through this in a year or two or three, then you can hold your breath and get out of it but you can't hold your breath forever eventually you're going to drown right so i you know you guys like the house i can tell by the way you're defending it it's not so much i liked it it just gave my my mom a place to stay after my dad passed away. They didn't have their financial things together, so they didn't have any retirement. And so that's why I feel like that was kind of a God moment, but now I feel like it's not. I think it's okay it was then and it's not now. Is she still with you, Caitlin?

Is she still living with you guys? Yes. Okay, so moving also means um moving her moving her or finding a place for like i mean it's that it's more than the discussion than just your nuclear family right yeah there's a lot going on here kiddo so what i would if i were in your shoes what would i do okay i would set myself a deadline that says I have a new career path that I can see light at the end of the tunnel, if I'm your husband, that allows us to afford this house by the end of the year. I'm going to give myself four to six months.

And if I don't have that new career path by spring underway, I'm going to sell the house. Because I'm not going to sit here in denial and act like this is okay because it's not okay it's killing y'all now you can survive it for a short period of time a year maybe whatever like that well she quit her job in 2020 so it's been two years of feeling they're not surviving they're they're no no but i'm just saying she's been feeling it for a while yeah yeah so i'm gonna send you ken coleman's book uh from paycheck to purpose and i want your husband to jump on the website i tell you what i'm also going to send him the assessment and let him take the assessment on to send him in a direction of some ways and things he could go do things he can look at but i want him to uh uh change horses i don't think he's being paid very

well and uh 50k is okay for some things, but I think he can do better. And if he can do better, you can keep this house. But if he can't or won't, then you can't keep the house because you're not going to be able to keep it long term. Something's going to blow up here. Hang on.

This is The Ramsey Show. We'll see you next time. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage. Garrett and Judy are with us. Hey guys, how are you? Good. Hi, good. Welcome. Where do y'all live? Joplin, Missouri. Oh, fun. Good. Welcome to Nashville. Thank you. How much debt did you pay off? $131. No, no, just kidding. $131,182. Close enough. Close enough, yes. All right. How long did it take? About five and a half years. Five and a half years.

All right. And your range of income during that time? We started at about a little under $40,000, went up to about $90,000, and we're back down to around $80,000. Okay, cool. What do you all do for a living? I'm a manual machinist. And I'm a children's minister.

Oh, very good. Good, good, good. What kind of debt was the 131 it's all the normal stuff it was uh cars and student loans vehicles well i said cars credit cards medical bills a business loan you were like normal all of it yes so what happened five and a half years ago plugged you into the ramsey way well uh when we got married my parents paid for us to go through a financial piece and i love your parents they need to they're wonderful and at the time i was 23 and thought i am broke and smarter than dave and what he's doing is not what we're gonna do

um and then did you go through and still thought that uh no well you kind of uh so then he was 23 we were ish for a while i just i kind of thought i mean maybe you just didn't go to class at all because of that no no that would have been me i would have just dissed the class yeah okay we we went but um so the first so we kind of started to get serious um and and we started to realize the financial chains that we were in and and we started to realize the financial chains that we were in and once you start to realize the chains that you're wearing uh and they come off you start to realize some other stuff and um the first four years uh i realized i was drowning in alcoholism and um so once i surrendered that to the lord and got some help uh we paid off

seventy thousand dollars in the last two years once we kind of got that out of the way got on the same page uh got some counseling got our marriage working um we really were able to buckle buckle down and make some real progress so you've been dry three and a half years uh two and a half years two and a half way to go hero congratulations that years. Two and a half. Way to go, hero. Congratulations. That's awesome. That's even a bigger deal. Oh, that's a lot bigger deal. A lot bigger deal.

That's incredible. That's incredible. We now are both ministry leaders for a celibate recovery ministry at our church. Yay. That's a wonderful ministry. Yeah. That's a wonderful ministry. It is.

Particularly when it's led by someone like you guys. Wow. Wow. How proud of him are you, Judy? Oh, beyond proud. It's changed the course of our family. Oh, for sure. You know, our boys will never see him drinking and won't know that person.

They get to see daddy. How old are your boys? Three and four. Oh, so they'll never know that. No, yeah. Praise God. Yeah. We're very grateful for that. That is so awesome yes it's very cool very cool yeah getting out of debt's easy once you're doing it

sober that's right yeah that's right i was able to make some stumbling through is not gonna work yeah when your life is out of control your money's out of control too yeah yeah so where in the journey did those kind of cross for you guys? Because you said you were starting this four and a half years ago. Yeah. And so the big thing was probably our van. We bought, we needed to upgrade because we were having our second child. And we paid too much for it. And it was a point of contention for us for a long time.

For a long time. And so finally we decided you know what we're going to just pay it off and be done with it um and and that was kind of what led us into um really going hard and and that gazelle intensity um instead of just kind of well we're we're sticking with our budget but we're not really but that was after the sober date that was actually just before just before just before what happened that woke you up on on the sobriety oh man i'm gonna cry me too so it's okay we'll do it together i found myself with my two-year-old's piggy bank and a wire hanger fishing out money to drink that night. And the Lord said, you're behaving like an addict

and you probably have a problem. And so after that, I sought out, like I said, a Celebrate Recovery ministry in our area and went and admitted to them. And then later that night to her and the Lord took that from me. Amen. It was awesome yeah it's a powerful thing yeah and there's stuff like that those moments when you got that visual

of that piggy bank in your hand and you if you have something that strong as a milestone that that changes everything that's a that's a Yeah. So before that, my life was just totally all about me. And then after that, I realized that the way that I was living, not only with the alcohol but with the money, was a threat to my kids. And nobody threatens my kids. And so that inspired me to sell my trucks and sell my guns and sell on everything, hustle, grind.

I threw shingles for two and a half years, which was not fun. And I'm glad I don't do that anymore. But just as my kids will never have to see me under the influence, they'll never know a family that carries any debt. You're a good man. Thank that's powerful i mean it's it's unbelievable like the redemption part usually what we get on this stage you know obviously comes for the debt free right that's what you're you're here for but always always underneath that are other stories and life going on it's life going on and the money problems end up being it's usually a symptom right of other things of out of control or a controlling thing right like all of that and that's the beauty

of being debt-free not only the financial side where you guys have no payments right you're completely free mathematically financially which is just incredible but there is a spiritual emotional freedom in other areas of your life that I think it really does. It affects. And you guys are just living proof of complete redemption in even bigger ways. I'm so proud of you. So incredible job, you guys. Thank you. Honored to know you. I'm proud of you.

Thank you. Way to go, heroes. Both of you. You're sweet boys. I'm excited. You're a family tree. I mean, the change is, like you said, too, the legacy is incredible. Absolutely incredible.

Very cool. Very, very cool. uh yeah it's a family tree change that's how it's done right there and uh so how's it feel to be free on the debt-free side no debt it feels wonderful it really does um you know we decided to come out here make it a trip whereas before it would have been really difficult to do any sort of thing like this, really pinching pennies. But now, I mean, we get to rent the car that we want.

We get to stay where we want. We get to have very expensive meals that we never had before. Yeah, it's been really wonderful. So just to be able to do those things, and now finally really just our life It's been really wonderful. So just to be able to do those things. And now finally, really just our life is not careening downhill at 95 miles an hour anymore financially and otherwise. And we can breathe.

Yeah. Very cool. Very cool. What are the boys' names? Judah is our oldest, and he's four. And then Josiah is our youngest. Okay. And they're at home with a babysitter. Yes. Because mom and in nashville going to nice dinners and not cutting anyone's food at the table it was our uh our eighth anniversary this week too so we said let's

just make that oh there we go that's good well happy anniversary happy anniversary we got a copy of baby steps millionaires for you that's the next chapter in your story for sure. This is very cool. And you guys got a great story and a great, great change. God has touched your lives in a very powerful way. And a copy of Total Money Makeover for you to give away to somebody and help them get started in a financial peace university membership for a year. Make sure you let someone go through that or you guys go through that. You'll probably run into somebody in the Celebrate Recovery that needs a little help with that. There's a hand-in-glove thing with addicts and money problems.

Yeah, it tends to be that way. Yep, that's the way that rolls. So very good, you guys. Very good. Very well done. We're proud of you heroes. Man. All right, it's Garrett and Judy Joplin, Missouri.

$131,000 paid off in five and a half years, making $40,000 to $90,000 to $80,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah! Wow. Wow.

This is the Ramsey show. so Our scripture of the day, Joshua 1.9, this is my command. Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid or discouraged. For the lord your god is with you wherever you go Winston Churchill said success is not final failure is not fatal it is the courage to continue that counts thank you for joining us America I was hosting with Deloney I guess probably a week or two ago and I didn't say the scripture in the quote of the day to lead in we just came in from course work and I was like and thou has been profited above and he was like I was reading the scripture but I it was like this you know holy wonderful and he was like are you having a strip what is happening I was like it's the scripture he's like oh my gosh came back from commercials like thou and heaven above he's like what are you saying so we will always prep you america

you never know scripture we gotta let you know what's happening so you don't think we've had a stroke george is with us in jefferson city. Hey, George, how are you? Hey, Dave. Hey, Rachel. It's an honor to be on here and talk to you. I'm great. How are you? Great.

Better than we deserve. How can we help? Good. A little background information. My wife and I are both in the agriculture field, and our dream, as well as many other people our age, is to own a farm. And this day and age, it's got its challenges with land being as high as it is. And we have a very close family friend that has made us an offer to let us have her farm when she is gone. And she's just turning 70.

She's a widow, and she likes to travel and take her horse trailer, and she lives in her horse trailer occasionally for weeks at a time. And she kind of wants us to come and take care of the remaining animals at her farm and then kind of care for her place and eventually give it to us when she's gone. We are just overwhelmed with the opportunity. We had several questions, and I want to get your opinion on a few things. We currently have a house that I guess we would potentially sell, um, if we decide to go through with this and she had offered for us to just move into her home and she would build a small shop or shouse on her property.

Um, she has a rental house across the road from her that she, uh, said she'd gladly kick the tenant out and she could live there or we could live there. The other option is for us to build a home on her farm. My wife and I have definitely decided that we do not want to move into her home because when she comes back from trips, that's her house. And as gracious as of an offer that is, I think, you know, she needs to stay there when she's home. That being said. How old are you guys?

I am 30 and my wife is 28. Are you planning on farming this full time when this all occurs? Yes, but we both have steady jobs have uh steady jobs but how many acres is this uh this is 80 and uh dave my wife and i also uh we we rent a farm right now and we raise sheep and um that generates a fair amount of money um on top of our on top of our nine-and-a-patch. So will you be working her farm under this arrangement? Our own animals, though. She actually has mules, and that's what she takes and rides all across the country. I'm saying, are you going to be a farmer on this farm?

Oh, yes, sir. Yes, sir. That's what I'm asking. Yes, sir. So here's what i'm asking all right yes sir okay so here's what here's what this is this lady is unbelievably kind and generous and she holds everything with a very open hand yes sir okay uh does she she obviously doesn't have heirs she actually does have uh two sons and that was our first uh concern You know, why is this not going to them? Well,

she has made it very clear that her kids are taken care of with her, I guess they have a fair amount of money and one of, both the kids are taken care of, her grandkids will be taken care of with her retirement. I think she has quite a bit of money and other. If I'm in your shoes, number one, you're unbelievably grateful, and you should be. But without anything structured around this, this is very dangerous for your family. Sure. You could spend 15 years here and end up with nothing if she changed her mind in the middle of it. Right. And so that's just not okay. Sure. You could spend 15 years here and end up with nothing if she changed her mind in the middle of it. Right. And so that's just not okay. Sure.

So, you know, we can either sit back and wait on her to pass away and you just go have your career and you don't worry about this farm until then. That's option one. And that's a clean option. That's fine. And then if she does leave it to you, then we'll deal with it then. But if she wants you to live there now and start working the farm on the auspices that it's going to be yours, then there needs to be something structured in terms of the ownership of this.

The cleanest way to do that would be for her to go ahead and deed it to you with her having a life estate, which means that she could live there as long as she's alive. Sure. That's a clean way to do it, but it's a pretty extreme thing to ask of someone that's this loosey-goosey and this generous. Now, it would be me putting my own livestock on the farm. I don't know if I made that clear. You're structuring your whole life around a farm that is not yours. So, should we get some, and now she wanted to update her will and put a TOD on the farm.

That would help. Is there something. She can change that, though, as long as she's alive. Right. Now, the way we kind of looked at it, well, if she pulls the plug in 15 years, we've lived there taking care of it. We've enjoyed it for 15 years, and we've been able to sit there and save money for the past 15 years, and we can go.

Yeah, but you don't own anything for 15 years, and everything around you's gone up for 15 years okay no no so the right way to go about it is to get some uh legal yeah documentation and and i think i think the two of you need to sit down with her and with an attorney and okay the downside is it's awkward even for me just sitting here saying it to ask this lady to go ahead and deed the property to you but uh but that's the only way i know that you're going to be protected okay okay and i worry about this thing unraveling because i mean suddenly one of these kids raises up and talks mama back into it and And, man, those are the calls we get every day here on the air,

stuff that's weird and went sideways. Right. Well, I was hoping you could shed some light on some questions that I need to ask that I haven't thought about, you know. I think you're right. I think there's a lot of questions here. And the thing you want to do on stuff like this is you want to figure out, okay, how is she protected and how are you protected if everything goes sideways?

Okay. If nobody, you know, and if you can figure out your exit strategies, like you said, you'd kind of thought about that. You know, we could just leave after 15 years and we would have had a free place to stay during that time. That's not totally bad. But the bad part of it then is, is you've not owned a farm all of that time right because you're sitting around waiting on this one that didn't come right okay all right just a hard relational thing because you sound like such a sweet lady and and i don't want to put her in jeopardy in this either and i don't want her kids raising up thinking you guys have come in there and taken advantage of her in some way or another yeah um you know lots of clear communication over

communicate with everybody as i say with the son i mean everything it's just like hey we're going to get it all out there yeah she needs to communicate with the kids in front of you um with a written an email like have a written yeah whether it's an email and their name that that's for the relational part of it yes and then have a good estate planning attorney structure this in a trust or a deed over now um but something that that uh i just i don't want her getting remarried and changing her mind right you know i mean that there's a lot she's 70 that can happen and she could. And to your point, protecting her, she still has another 10, 15, 20 years. Another way to do it would just be get on with your life and go by there and feed the animals.

Yeah. And not worry about all this. Yeah. Just keep your house and go by there and feed the animals. And if it all works out, it works out. Yeah. That's the easiest one. Other than the fact you've got to drive over there to feed the animals.

Wow. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show and the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Hey, it's Rachel Cruz, co-host on The Ramsey Show. If you want to do your debt-free scream live on the show, visit ramsaysolutions.com slash debtfreescream.

We'd love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story. That's ramsaysolutions.com slash debtfreescream.