The Ramsey Show - App - We're Stuck in Two Mortgages! (Hour 1)

Episode Date: November 3, 2020

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author and host of The Ken Coleman Show, expert on jobs and careers and finding your passion in your career field, is my co-host this hour. So if you've got questions about your life, your career, your money, we are here to help you with every part of that. And you can be guaranteed I've got an opinion about all of it. I am an expert on my opinion. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

That's 888-825-5225. So, Coleman, you and Rachel Cruz have been elected by the rest of the Ramsey personalities to be the two most likely to be political freaks on election day. Yeah, well, it's true. In fact, I just finished the Ken Coleman show, had about a six-minute break, and I checked on seven texts from your daughter. She is in a group of some mutual friends of ours, and it's been a group text for about two weeks.

She is beyond excited. I'm not sure if Christmas morning when rachel was between the ages of four and ten or if election day is the most exciting morning for her you've you've witnessed it all strange she loves the process i had to tell her to take me off because she's just wearing me out well she is she has a lot of information she's like eyewitness news yeah so people are wondering what is she texting well that's a private conversation, but I will tell you she misses information. She's up to date on what both sides are saying, feeling. She's got, you need polls, you need opinions.

The latest conspiracy theory. She has it all. Yeah, she's definitely got all the conspiracy theories. They're cataloged. This is after, by the way, that she announced on her own Instagram account, at Rachel Cruz, a couple weeks ago, I'm sure you saw it, that when she retires, it says as an old lady, she wants to be a poll worker. A poll worker. Did you see this?

No, I missed that. It was in the, well, this was in the aftermath of her casting her vote. I have failed as a father. Well, she had just voted, and she was in her car. She is in her 30s, and she aspires to be a poll worker. Right. Well, she's a number one multi New York Times, whatever, best-selling author. Number one, what, two, three times?

It could be worse. She could be, yeah. She has her own show. She's got three kids. She does anything she wants to do. She's going to be a poll worker. She's going to be a poll worker. All right.

Well, there you go. And she has the personality for it. She makes everybody feel great. She'll be high energy. You know, it'll be wonderful. Thank personality for it. She makes everybody feel great. She'll be high energy. It'll be wonderful. Thank you for voting. You're changing America with your vote. Yeah.

Oh, my gosh. Yeah, she's very excited about civic duty. And a lot of fun with it, too. She's really enjoyable, at least for most of us. I would say the Ramsey personality is we take great enjoyment with her excitement. There we go. Well, there's no question you and her have been voted most likely to be Election Day freaks. Yeah, I'm a bit of a nerd.

No question. Open phones at 888-825-5225 as we talk about you and your life, something that we can actually control. Tyler is with us in Houston, Texas. Hey, Tyler, how are you? Hey, Dave. Hey, Ken. How are y'all? Better than we deserve.

What's up? So first off, before I heard about the whole Dave Ramsey, I got a debt consolidation loan roughly about two years ago. It was for $10,000, and I paid down on it about $7,000. My question to you is, should I stop paying on that loan to help pay off? If you stop paying on it, you'll be in default. Why would you stop paying on it? Because it's just hurting the cash flow that I have now,

because right now roughly me and my wife are in debt about $51,000, and the majority of that is cars that we had got. Now, let me stop you a second, okay? There's a possibility you're confused. Is this a loan you took out, or did you sign up with a debt consolidation company that's collecting a payment from you and then working your debts down? Yeah, well, yeah, yeah, it's from, like, Lending Club. It was a declaration on correct

okay you have a you have a you now have a personal loan for ten thousand dollars regardless of why you took the loan out if you don't pay it they're gonna sue you correct you're just gonna go bad on the loan of course not of course i'm not gonna tell you to do that i got you i got you so what would be the next step into going and paying off, you know, I mean, getting out of debt. Yeah, $51,000 in debt and $10,000 of it is this. What's the other $41,000? Vehicle loans. Okay. And what's your household income? About $100,000 a year. And you have $41,000 worth of cars? Yes, correct. That's a lot. Yes.

You thought about selling one of them? Yeah, we thought about it, but I mean, so, I mean, we thought about that, but I mean, how would I go about selling it? You put it up for sale? Just like outright selling it? Yeah, I mean, you owe more on it than it's worth, and that's what you mean? Well, no, I mean, what I'm trying to say is, like, how do we go about selling? I mean, do we just, like, put a sticker on it, throw it out in the front yard, and just say, hey, it's for sale? Yeah, and you listed home traders.

I would, yes, all those places. Crank list or whatever you do. Facebook marketplace. Lots of places to sell a car. You've never sold a car? I mean, yeah, I mean, I, all those places. Craigslist or whatever you do. Facebook marketplace. Lots of places to sell a car. You've never sold a car? I mean, yeah, I've sold a car, but it's relatively a new car. I mean, so I don't know a lot of people that have, you know, 18,000 cash that's ready to drop on a new car.

You did. Yeah. So there's lots of people out there that'll do that. They go to the bank, get a loan, buy your car from you. So you need to put up the most expensive of the two cars and get it sold. What are the cars? It's a 2017 Toyota Tacoma and a 2018 Toyota Camry. Okay.

So the taco is probably the expensive one. I'd probably drop the taco. Gotcha, gotcha. And here's the thing, man. The problem is you can't make your payments and you called me on how not to make a payment while you have two very expensive cars sitting in your driveway because you've got almost a thousand dollars a month in car payments don't you yeah exactly yeah and this is that's what's killing you so i'm not against the taco my you

know a couple of my family members have got them they're pretty that's what we call them anyway the tacomas are they're really, really good trucks, actually. Toyota makes a good product. But it doesn't matter if you can't afford it. And so it's a pretty simple math transaction here, dude. The time that you were on the car lot and you said, I think I can afford this, you were wrong. And so now you're selling it and you're admitting it. And that gets you some of your cash flow back. And you get a junker to drive until you get these two debts cleaned up, the other car and the $10,000.

And I think you have to work your way through this. Dave, this always gets me. So I'm always looking at older cars and things like that. It's kind of a fun little thing. I like to just see what's out there. You have a great old car. I do have a great old car. It's a Carmen a fun little thing. I like to just see what's out there. You have a great old car. I do have a great old car. It's fun.

A Carmen Ghia. What year is that thing? A 1972. Yeah. A Volkswagen Carmen Ghia. But I'm looking around, and you'd be surprised at how many good older Toyotas. You take a 2003 or 2004 or 2005 Camry. You'd be surprised at how reliable they are.

Oh, great car. And you can go get those. And that young couple could have two very reliable cars for 10 grand or less and i'm not exaggerating i don't i mean not exaggerating daniel ramsey my son drives a taco yeah um yeah that thing's gotta be 10 years old i'm driving a 2006 lexus he doesn't carry that has 200 000 miles on it he was wearing this big because i'm a big car guy and and he's not, oddly enough. Otherwise, he would have traded out of a 15-year-old or 10-year-old truck or whatever the thing is.

But he was like, I don't know what car I would get that I like better. So I'm just driving it. Yeah. You know? And it's a great truck. It'll go anywhere. It's good. So, yeah, it's just a matter of what you can afford.

And what you can afford is what you can pay cash for. And if you didn't pay cash for it, by definition, you can't afford it. And that's what we're dealing with here. Thanks for the call. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Life sure has a lot of twists and turns. Unlike a roller coaster, we never know what's around the bend. The same can be true with unanticipated medical bills. That's why Christian Healthcare Ministries, or CHM, is a great option for those who are faith-focused and budget-conscious. CHM is not insurance. Rather, it's Christians helping other Christians carry one another's burdens with healthcare expenses. You know how important it is to be ready for whatever life

throws your way, and unfortunately, medical expenses can be some of the biggest, most unexpected curveballs. With CHM, you'll have peace of mind knowing you and your family have a caring, faith-based community behind you. As a Better Business Bureau accredited charity, CHM has helped its members successfully share over $5 billion in each other's medical bills for nearly 40 years. To see if CHM is right for you, visit online at chministries.org budget. That's chministries.org budget. Ken Coleman Ramsey, personality, is my co-host today here on the air. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Elise is in Buffalo, New York.

Hi, Elise, how are you? Hey, Dave, can y'all. Hi, Elise. How are you? Hey, Dave. Can y'all hear me? Absolutely. What's up? Yeah, so I am, first of all, a huge fan of both you and Ken. Love their MD network. Thank you.

And I just wanted, I guess you guys can help us with, like, a minor disagreement my husband and I are having. So we're both 25, and we're on baby step two right now. And we live in New York and we're just wondering, do we need to get a will right now? Or should we wait a year and get one once we're done with baby step two? Cause we only have one asset and it's our car and both of our names are on it so we're just wondering do we yeah need a will in our situation yes you need a will

everyone needs a will that's an adult because you otherwise you get tangled up trying to get his name off the car if he dies and if you have a will that states that it walks right through probate and it doesn't take two years to sell the stinking car because they're getting the title straightened out the will does that the will gives the court clear instructions on that and if you um let's say that you didn't have an asset which is what you're talking about other than the car but maybe his mother thought you did, and she decided she wanted to be one of the heirs and there's no will. Now you're in an argument with his mother about an asset that doesn't even exist,

but she is under the illusion that it does, and this is all this kind of crap is cleared up when there's a will. Okay, not on expense. Thank you. It's worth the, you know, you don't need an expensive detailed estate plan but it's worth going to mama bear legal forms.com spending 100 bucks and you know you guys have a very clear thing then and the other thing that is if both of you die what happens to your point yeah to your stuff and so what you get an inexpensive way to do a will and especially in your situation is what's called a mirror image will that says this is what happens if he dies this is what happens if she dies and the exact same thing happens if we both die in

both wills and so it would sound like like you leave everything to him if you die he leaves everything to you if he dies and if we both, it all goes to mama or whoever, brother, whatever it's going to, okay? And it's a very clear thing. It's just a cleanliness thing. And it's not probably going to change your life if somebody passes away, but it will lower the hassle factor by 1,000%. And that's what you run into. away, but it will lower the hassle factor by a thousand percent.

And that's what you run into. And Ken, we've run into some really particularly egregious will situations. Hers is not lately. A lady called the other day and on the air here, and after seven years of marriage, her husband had not changed his will and had not changed the beneficiary on his life insurance. And so her husband died and they've got two kids and all the money went to his dad oh no the good news was his dad being grandpa says i'm going to give it all back to you but they're trying to figure out how to do that without the tax problems that that creates right and so it's just one of these subjects that nobody

wants to talk about and everybody has to talk about. Sarah is with us. Sarah is in Oklahoma City. Hi, Sarah. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. What's up?

I'm a little nervous, but I'll try to fix it. I'm going to say hi. We own, currently, three rental properties in Oklahoma. And we have about $25,000 on rental. The other two are paid for sort of our houses paid for.

We took out like a loan where we borrowed a guest against their home to one of the rentals. Okay, your phone's breaking up. I'm going to put you on hold until Kelly can get you straightened out. Amders is with us in London in the U.K. Hi, Amders, how are you?

Very good, thank you. I hope you are as well. We are. How can we help? So my question is, like you, I'm allergic to handing over money to the government. And in the U.K., we have something called an ISA, which works a bit like a Roth in the U.S., except it's not related to the government. And in the UK, we have something called an ISA, which works a bit like a Roth in the US, except it's not related to your pension.

So what I was thinking of doing was, before I start throwing money at my mortgage, to use up my £20,000 allowance that I can put into that every year, so that over the course of my life, I will use up more of that allowance and have less money to the government, and thereby have more money for myself.

I'd like your opinion on that. I'm confused as to how this works. You pay £20,000 to who? So essentially, it's essentially a tax wrapper. So you put it into a specific account that has certain tax protections under the UK law, which means that just like a Roth, it grows tax-free. So you use that, you pay it into an account after you've paid your tax on your income, and then once it grows in there, whatever you have in there is tax-free for the rest of your life.

Okay, wonderful. Okay. Wonderful. Okay. So it's very similar then. All right. And so what that sounds like it would do is fall in what we call here in our baby steps, the baby step four, and that's put 15% of your income away into that. Anything above that, I would throw at your home and get your home paid off before I maxed that out.

So you have a maximum of 20,000 pounds, but is 20,000 pounds more than 15% of your household income? Well, I'm already, no, but I'm already doing that in the other pension, which is the official pension thing, which has other additional protections, which is a bit more like your 401K. So that has some protections in terms of if you go bankrupt and things like that or then i would get the house paid off if you've got control of that uh uh the pension and you're putting 15 in that i would not do the first one you ask about until you get the house paid off

even if that means paying more taxes over the course of my life correct but you're gonna pay off your home fairly quickly okay it's not the whole course of your life. Correct, but you're going to pay off your home fairly quickly. Okay. It's not the whole course of your life. I mean, how long is it going to take you to pay off the house if you lean into it? Well, I live in a one-bedroom flat in London that costs £400,000, so it will take a few years. How long? Five, ten? Ten if I throw everything at it, I'd say. Yeah, okay. It's not really the course of your life then. It's just 10 years. And then you would load up the other stuff.

And so, you know, the point being that we need to put, regardless of the system we're using, a substantial amount once we're debt-free except for the home, a substantial amount into retirement. But not so much that we can't get the home paid off fairly quickly. Because if you can own that flat in London free and clear, that's a nice asset, or at least in years past it has been. And we can tell by the cost of it that it has been,

London being one of the more expensive cities in the world to live in. London, Tokyo, used to be Manhattan when it was there. But, I mean, it's unusually expensive real estate on a worldwide scale. So that's what you're facing. But, yeah, I see what you're doing, and that's what I would stick with, and that's how I would push that. We get questions like this a lot, Dave. What's the psychology there?

Because this is a very bright man here, and obviously he's doing really well. The psychology of, well, should I pay the flat off or I want to try to reduce my tax burden? And I understand it. I hate taxes with a passion. I mean, deeply, deeply hate government control and taxes. But there's a psychological thing there where we kind of tend to focus on the thing that seems to be the irritant, not the better overall strategy. And he's not alone. What's going on there in our minds? Well, in the U.S., obviously, if you load up your 401K with a traditional, you're lowering the tax bill. In a Roth, you're not lowering your tax bill because it's after-tax dollars going in and grows tax-free, which we'd recommend the Roth anyway. But back to your question, you know, I want to take the tax advantage and I want to be an investor more than I want my home paid off. And so what that means is with most people, not necessarily with amateurs,

I don't know, but with most people, that means they've come to accept that a mortgage is always going to be there. And so I might as well invest. But if you had this idea, I'm going to get rid of that thing. While I put some away, I'm going to get rid of it. And then when it's gone, then I can go big. Right? And that's a different.

It is a psychological thing. It's a shift in the way you're viewing it. It's really well said. We just assume, well, the mortgages aren't going to be there, so I'm going to focus on other strategies. I really need to invest in that case. That's good. Yeah. Ken Goldman, Ramsey Personality, my co-host today.

We're going to talk about careers and jobs. He's here, and we'll answer your questions about your life in any area. This is the Dave Ramsey personality is my co-host today here on the air as we talk about your careers, your money, your life. And Jennifer, we're going to talk about Jennifer. Jennifer's in Austin, Texas. Hi, Jennifer, how are you? Hi, I'm doing well. How are y'all?

Great. I see on my screen you're debt-free. Congratulations. I am. Thank you so much. So how much have you paid off? I've paid off a little over $63,000. Good for you. And how long did this take? It took about 15 months. Good for you. And your range of income during that 15 months? I started out making around $75,000 base salary, got up to $79,000 and with side hustles and bonuses add, you know, $20,000 to $30,000 more to that. So I think I ended up around $100,000

to $110,000. Wow, you're kicking it. Good for you. What do you do for a living? I am a technical writer. Okay. Plus those side hustles. Okay. And the side hustles were freelancing? Oh, man. I did everything. I started out dog walking and sitting. Whenever somebody posted anywhere, if they knew anybody who did anything, I basically asked for forgiveness instead of permission and said I knew how to do it and figured it

out along the way. like asked for forgiveness instead of permission and said i knew how to do it and figured it out along the way um the biggest financial um impact was me selling other people's stuff for a commission oh good for you yeah okay working thank you working the ebay or the craigslist route huh okay yeah facebook marketplace is oh yeah there you go myto. Good. What kind of debt was the $63,000? Well, $19,000 of it was a car, and then $44,000 was credit card debt. Wow. Did you sell the car? Yeah.

That's an interesting story. I did sell the car. The $19,000, I was in the middle of paying it down, and then I was in a little bit of a bad relationship, and my ex shot the car. So there was some credit card debt put toward that to fix the car in order to sell it. But selling a car with bullet holes in it is a little difficult. This is an ex that needs to be exed. Yeah.

Oh, he was exed yes wow thank the lord goodness gracious well that kind of seals the deal just in case you were wondering about what you're supposed to do with this relationship bullet holes will tell you that yeah oh my gosh yes unbelievable so you got rid of the car bullet holes and repairs and some extra credit card debt and but 19 000 of the $63,000 goes that way. The rest of it, you just hustled and hustled and hustled, huh? Yeah, I didn't fully understand the ramifications of trusting someone else with my finances, and it was a really toxic relationship. I'm actually the frugal person in relationships,

and it was a very costly mistake, but I wasn't looking at income statements. I was being naive and just let somebody else handle it and realized $44,000 later that I had made a huge mistake. Yeah. So bullet hole buddy ran your, uh, ran your credit cards up then. Yeah. Um, and the only reason I saw it was it was my job at the time was liquidated. And I started looking for other jobs and I realized how bad it was. And so I reached out to family and found a job. And my aunt and uncle let me live with them, helped me get out of that relationship and just start figuring out finances. Good for you. Well done. You've changed your whole life. Upside down.

Jennifer, I want to ask you, what was your emotional state? Obviously, this was a toxic relationship, and you discover all of this, and that has to be shocking and traumatic in its own right. What was your emotional state like when you started the debt-free journey? And compare that to what it's like now after you've paid off that last debt? You know, when I started out, my emotional state was all over the place. I mean, I was devastated. Whenever you get out of a relationship, I feel like, you know, it is the death of something, even if it's the right thing for you to do. It was really difficult for a lot of reasons and toxic relationships are cyclical. So I felt just like a victim and like I had no control and like I was

reckless. And so getting out of debt wasn't just for myself and my future and the betterment of my future, but it was also for me to feel completely unshackled from the relationship that I was in. Powerful, powerful again. You feel powerful again. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Good for you.

Well, I'm proud of you. I bet your mom and dad are proud of you. They are. Aunt and uncle you said you moved in with, I bet they are. Oh, my gosh. Ken, it's all about the proximity principle, right? You are the aggregate of the people that you surround yourself by. So when I realized I needed to surround myself with great people, I did that. My circle got smaller and my boyfriend, my aunt, my new boyfriend, sorry, my aunt, my uncle, my best friend,

sister-in-law, brother, mom, dad, I would be here without them, but it would be way, way harder and not nearly as glorious. It's the old metaphor, addition by subtraction, subtracting negative people, people that are toxic, people that aren't on the same page as you. It's really huge to growth. Good for you. Well done. So what do you tell people now that you've been through all of this transformation and the money piece was kind of in the middle of it, what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? I know a lot of people talk about sticking to a budget and, you know, staying dedicated. I totally agree with that. But, um,

for me, my foundation was forgiveness and it wasn't just forgiving him, but, but forgiving myself for putting myself into this situation. And anytime resentment would creep back into that, you know, recklessness would ensue. I would, I would purchase something emotionally. And usually it was like brownies or something sweet that I didn't need to have as well. But I realized that by, you know, having hate in your heart, it's like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die, right? Well, you're just hurting yourself and hurting what you could be if you're not forgiving yourself. That's so good, Dave. Impressive. Very impressive. Very impressive. Well, I mean, you getting out of debt is a small part of your overall equation. It's an outward symptom of your

inward healing and your strength that you got back and your dignity that you got back and walking away from the shame that you were shaming yourself even is what you're saying, right? Oh, yeah. I think, you know, there are two sides to every coin, right? So you flip the coin and I felt like I was enabling and I could have done X, Y, and Z. And, you know, hindsight is so 20-20. So looking back, you're looking at your decisions and you're like, man, I could have done that so differently in my life would have been so much easier, but you, you kind of, you

know, the windshield is bigger than the rear view mirror for a reason. So you need to keep looking forward and just make sure that that, that rear view mirror isn't, you know, nothing's creeping up on you. Absolutely. Incredible. Well done. Well done. Well, we've got a copy of Chris Hogan's book for you, Everyday Millionaires. That is the journey that you're on. That's the next chapter in your story. And I think we've just seen the beginning of what Jennifer is going to become. Absolutely incredible. Very, very well done.

Thank you so much. All right, it's Jennifer in Austin, Texas. $63,000 in 15 months, making $75,000 all the way to $110,000 with the side hustles. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. I can't believe it. Yeah.

Woo. She threw her head back. I don't know if you could hear that she got away from the phone because she let it rip got rid of 42 000 and three bullet holes oh my gosh what a transformation what a jerk yes it was tied up yes this is unbelievable yeah oh. Oh, wow. Yeah. And coming out of something like that, when you've not been around anything like that, coming out of something like that, for those of you who don't know, is a big deal. It's a really hard process. And once you've done that, getting out of that thing is really not hard. When she said forgiveness, I hope you folks locked in on that.

Forgiving yourself is huge. We have to remind ourselves, we forget, that we are the person we listen to the most. The most influential voice in our lives is the voice in our heads, and she nailed it. Because it runs 24-7. 24-7. What a phenomenal lady she is. Well done. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host this hour.

As we talk about your life and your money this day, the phone number is 888-825-5225. We're also taking calls about your careers if you want to talk. Taylor is, I'm sorry, Andrea is with us in Denver. Hi, Andrea. How are you? Hi, Dave. How are you and Ken? Good. How can we help? Well, first off, please don't yell at me. My husband and I, we got ourselves into a really big mess and we're paying for it in a really big way. And the worst part about it is that we knew better.

We were on maybe step four or five, four, five and six. And we decided that we wanted to buy a house on some property that needed a lot of fixing up. So we bought it and we had about $35,000 in saving to work on the house while we were waiting for our old property to sell so that was mistake number one got into it our house defied all the odds I feel like in the in the area that we're in, really good neighborhood, really good house. We had some really weird things happen. And a day before we were supposed to close on this house, the deal fell through. So now Colorado got really, really cold.

We couldn't live there the way that it was. So we moved back into our old house and we're just at a crossroads because now we have two mortgages. The house that we were fixing up, we got it down to the studs and ran out of money because I didn't want to spend our emergency fund. And then we had a ton of emergencies that drained that down to about $3,000. and that's where we're sitting at right now. So we have a ton of friends and family that are speaking into our lives about what we should do, but we feel like we've lost our center, and we just wondered what would Dave Ramsey do in our situation. Well, you've had a hard year. Yeah, it's been really rough i'm sorry but you know we put ourselves in our in that

situation again i felt like we knew better no consolation it still sucks um okay so your current residence is worth that you're living in is worth what? Uh, three, the offer that we had was three 45. We put it on the market for about three 50. And what do you owe on it? 177. Okay. All right. Um, and the money pit has how much owed on it? We bought it for $350. We owed $280 on it. Okay. And how much is the budget to finish the repairs? We believe

that it would probably about be $50 or $60. Okay. And the issue... Go ahead. And the issue is what? Well, the issue with that is we would have enough to do that with the sale of this house, but we also borrowed from his grandmother to do the down payment on the farm, which is 70. Okay. So you have 70... So after we pay her and we sell this house, if we were to continue to go that route, we would have enough to finish the house.

Okay. And what is that house worth after you spend $50,000 on it? My real estate agent and we've had a few other people, contractors, and that speak into it. And the location is amazing. It's on 13 acres. What is that house worth when you spend $50,000 on it? We think it would be worth between $450,000 and $500,000. Okay.

So you get to do what you want to do, which is what you've done so far. You ask what I would do. I would sell your home. I would move into a rental. I would complete the renovation, and then I would sell that piece of crap. And then I would pay your grandmother back and go buy you another house. Okay. This house is not a dream.

The second one, it's a nightmare parts of why you sold yourself on it and led yourself down this path where you got the crap beat out of you is are still in your brain it's a great location i don't care if it's a great location the house sucks the whole story sucks and as long as you live in that house 20 years from now, all you're going to remember is this horrible story. You're never going to enjoy that house. Fix it and sell it with the money you get from your house while you're renting and then go buy something else and get grandma paid off. And then you get to have a never again moment. And you know what the never again moment is, don't you? and get grandma paid off. And then you get to have a never-again moment. And you know what the never-again moment is, don't you?

Do you? Never again am I doing stupid crap like this, right? Yes. That's what I had when I went bankrupt. I had a never-again moment. Never again am I borrowing up to my eyeballs because I was doing what you did, but I did it with zeros on the end because I was stupid. And I had a PhD in DUMB.

So you're just a little bit, you're just tiny dumb compared to how dumb I was. But, yeah, I got to learn your lesson. And you got to cut the emotional garbage loose from this thing because there's no way I'm living in that house. Not after it's destroyed your family. I mean, this thing has owned you emotionally for 24 12 months however long ever since you owned it it's owned you the flip side to this andre if you hear what dave's saying is there is a way out of this yeah and you feel as though there the way you're reacting i understand you're discouraged but dave just gave you a very clear way to get out of this and it'll work and i agree with you with you, Dave, but here's what they've got to focus on, a new desired future.

It's no longer that place. It's, wait a second, there's other great spots out in their area in Denver, Colorado. Are you kidding me? We also figured out, she also has figured out, I'm not a rehabber. That's right. I don't need to do rehabs. And they were already in four, five, and six. You need to buy a house that you move into.

That's right. And not even a closet needs painting. No more renovations for you. They can erase this and start on a new canvas. It's going to hurt. Yeah, that's right. They're actually probably going to end up netting a profit when all the smoke clears. The way I saw the numbers, yes.

They come out of this real relatively financially unscathed you know other than just the emotional embarrassed and ashamed that's right that's uh you know and some scars from that there's more let me just beg you having done what i do for 30 years and having owned real estate i've owned thousands of pieces of real estate over 2 000 pieces in my life do not fix this house and move in it you will hate it it will never feel right because of what it has done to you and it always be this reminder of the dumb thing that i did it's true every time you walk through that hallway every time you you know just don't do it it's a please you do whatever you want to do but i mean i i try to get rid of things that remind me

of my stupidity and i want things around that remind me of the time i was smart it's true and here's plenty of both that's right and and they don't have to you know live this the rest of their life they can go all right we did this thankfully we got out of it and now let's go find another thing let's rebuild and let's find another great vision and let's go find another thing. Let's rebuild, and let's find another great vision, and let's go after that. And that's the key. They've got to sever the emotional tie to the steel. Yeah, and here's the thing. It's a house.

There's houses everywhere. That's right. There is no unicorn property. There's just not. I mean, there's not a property that says, there's never been one like it, never been. I mean, there's about 10 properties in every city that might qualify for that. Other than that, most of it you can probably replicate. I mean, it's just a house on every corner.

You can figure this out. So I would cut all of it loose, start fresh, call it an adventure, call it a day. The good news is you're not losing a half million dollars and having to start over on your wealth building. You're actually probably going to come out with a net, net, net profit after grandma, after the renovations, after the recoup of the 35 you spent out of your savings and the sale of both properties, all of it back in a pile. I think if I heard the numbers right, you're going to come out okay. So it's just an emotional process.

And this hour kind of had a theme of, like, forgive yourself. She worked. I was going to yell at her. You know who's yelling at her her oh yeah i'm not in here at you yeah yeah you know you you you've been yelling at yourself a lot louder than i have but don't don't try to halfway go through this you'll miss it'll be a mistake clean slate rip the band-aid off get a fresh start thanks to james childs our producer kelly daniel our associate producer and phone screener i am clean slate, rip the band-aid off, get a fresh start. Thanks to James Childs, our producer, Kelly Daniel, our associate producer and phone screener. I am Dave Ramsey, your host, and we'll be back. This is James Childs, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show.

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