The Ramsey Show - App - We’ve Lost Our Sense of Identity After Paying Off Debt

Episode Date: April 18, 2022

Dave Ramsey & Dr. John Delony discuss: Rediscovering your identity after being focused on paying off debt for so long, Grieving after a miscarriage and knowing the next right financial step. Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is done, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. Dr. John Deloney is my co-host this hour here on the Ramsey Show. This is a show where we help you build wealth, do work that you love, and have high quality, amazing relationships and mental wellness. We're here to help you with all of that. Join us. The phone number is 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. It is launch week for Dr. John Deloney's brand new book, Own Your Past, Change Your Future, A Not-So-Complicated Approach to Relationships and Mental Health. Absolutely incredible.

Tomorrow is actual launch day. So if you order by midnight tonight, you get all the goodies, and that includes the audio book and the e-book and a month of weekly therapy with the fine folks at BetterHelp. You've got to order today by midnight tonight. The phone number is AAA, or just go to RamseySolutions.com for the book. Own your past, change your future. John, how does it feel to be one day out? I was feeling good.

It's like having a baby. We're inducing labor tomorrow. That's happening. And, yeah, driving down the highway and seeing my face on a billboard, I wasn't prepared for that. It's weird. That's so weird. It's weird.

My daughter looked at me as though I grew three heads. Like, Dad, what are you doing up there? That's embarrassing. That's exactly right. Yeah. I said, oh, Dad, what are you doing up there? That's embarrassing. That's exactly right. Yeah. I said, oh, honey, if that's embarrassing. She'll be doing that probably as long as you live. That's exactly right.

Yeah. Yeah. The first time I ever got a billboard, there was me and another guy that were doing a radio show. We just started this radio show in Nashville only. And they figured out at the billboard company that if you do an extension, meaning that like an arrow going out the side of the billboard or something sticking up outside the square, that it catches the eye more. Yeah. And so they figured out they need an extension. So these geniuses decided that the extension was going to be my bald head sticking up.

So there's this little half moon sticking up. So we drive over. We're all so thrilled we have a billboard and um i shouldn't tell this but it's the truth it happened so we drive over there sharon and i we're gonna go get a picture i got a picture of the billboard it's classic and so we drive over there to hickory hollow mall which is not there anymore now and uh find the billboard there by the side of the interstate and there's my head sticking up half moon above it and three birds sitting on it.

We couldn't get a good picture because I got birds sitting on my bald head up there. It was awful. So just in case you thought you'd made it. Hey, I want a slick. God will bring you a little humility. I want a slick digital board, man. It looks good. Yeah, you're on a digital board with no birds.

And it changes every four or five minutes. That's not you. It's not me. It's other things on there. That's right. So, yeah, we put those up around Nashville just to announce that we're very proud of this book. Yeah, I'm excited, man. National bestselling author, Dr. John Deloney, his brand new book, his first major trade book.

And we are really, really excited about this. Let's talk about what it is because it is launch week. And what do I get if I'm reading this book? What's your hope? What's your dream for the reader? My hope is that most of us have just come to understand and believe that life is just, quote, unquote, just going to be like this. I was just talking to somebody who I love and care about, and she was walking me through some challenges. Her and her husband's a best friend of mine.

They were struggling with this and this. And they're just like, well, I guess it's the way this is. And some of the wisdom they've received is you just got to suck it up. You just got to cope. It's just going to be this way. And I just reject that, Dave. I think there's a different way to live. And if we understand why we've arrived at where we are and then have some steps to get out of this thing and start doing life differently, man, it affects our kids, our kids our marriages our job it affects every part of our lives and so my goal here is um again i i can't sit one-on-one with everybody right not everybody's got my cell number if i was to sit down with somebody this is what i would tell you like how to own the stuff that happened and how to make the next right so horrible things that have been there the good things that have been there in your

past i'll own them yeah you we tell stories is the framework of the book uh to ourselves and then the trick is to you know make the story real uh because sometimes in our head we make uh what happened to us the thing yeah the stories on us rather than a thing that's right and here dave i don't know if you and i've talked about this but we've been given two paths forward in life either you're the worst thing that ever happened to you you're the worst thing that um you've ever done of your life that's all you'll ever be is this i'm the guy filed bankruptcy when i was 28 that's all you'll be and if that's you then somebody's got to come save you there has to be some government program to come drag you out of this because you're a

loser you're always going to be busted that's it and the other narrative we've been given is if you have a feeling it's a it's a it's a sign of weak character you're a fool suck it up move on just plow through life and then there's a wake of hurt and loss and so i'm calling bullcrap on both of those this is a new third man, how to own that stuff and then what to do on the back end. Well, the major thing that happened to you is not you. It's not your identity. It's a thing. It's a thing.

That happened. Yes. And so horrible things have happened to people. People have gone through all kinds of tragedies, loss. I worked there 38 years and they fired me. Yeah. How long ago was that? 15 years ago.

Well, you're still talking about it like it ago was that 15 years ago well you're still talking about it like it's 20 minutes ago which means you're still living in it that's right and you've taken it as an identity rather than a thing that happened that's right and that's not sucking it up and saying there's not feelings there is feelings but living in this perpetual state of grieving the thing right letting the thing grieve you being a victim forever yeah it owns you it defines you it tells you you know who you are i got divorced when 14 years ago you're still talking about it he left me he did a date i mean my god you know it's like wow move on really but that's hard to do right it is it is hard to move i'm not saying suck it up but i am saying no there is some suck

it up too there is there is a part of that but that's the own your past part that is in my past the rear view mirror is smaller than the windshield the windshield is my future it's grace that's right that's right it's bigger it's a wide open whiteboard if i don't allow the past to you know color the future to the point i can't do anything that's right and if most of us would wrap our heads around what that could look like, we would be able to sleep a full night of sleep without medication. We would be able to call somebody to come over when we're feeling low. We'd have a group of people that we'd do life with. We'd be able to laugh from our guts.

These basic human things that have just been slowly plucked out of our lives over the last 10, 15, 25, 30 years. Well, and, you know, this idea that we can have relationships through a digital app is a false thing. Yeah. And that's damaged our culture, too. Yeah, big time. It's left us with this need for relationships, and we don't even realize we don't have them.

Well, I have 14 friends on Facebook. You don't have any real friends. That's right. And none of them will help you change a tire. That's exactly right. Not one. Nope. Not one. They will thumbs down your post easter if it wasn't the right if you didn't if you didn't quote it the way that they were raised you got the wrong

version of scripture uh yeah own your past change your future is the brand new book a not so complicated approach to relationships mental health and. It is not a book for people struggling with extreme mental health issues. No, go see your psychiatrist, psychologist. Yeah, go see a therapist. This is a book for all of the rest of us that have minor mental health issues. Or if you love somebody that you're struggling with. Or if you work next to a guy. I'm just kidding.

Yeah, it's for all of us. Hey, careful, careful. It's for all of us. It's great. Own Your Past, Change Your Future, brand new book, will be another bestseller. We're sure of that. If you want the deal, you need to order it now at RamseySolutions.com before midnight and get Zibagans. That was Hillbilly French.

Is that French? Did you hear it? Hillbilly French. This is The Ramsey Show. Let me tell you a story about two families that are very much alike in a lot of ways. Both families have two working parents and a couple of young kids. Each has debt and has struggled to make ends meet. But they're starting to make headway with their budgets and smarter decisions with money.

They have dreams and plans, and the only real difference is that one family has the right amount of term life insurance, and the other doesn't. Big difference. If one of the parents die, and that does happen, their well-being would be destroyed. Paying for the mortgage, utilities, food, and other bills would be impossible, let alone saving for education or retirement. That's why every day I talk relentlessly about getting term life insurance. Just go to zanderinsurance.com or call 800-356-4282 and see how inexpensive it really is.

Be the family that takes those deliberate steps to be different and responsible. It really does make you the hero of your story, and it puts you on course for better things ahead. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, best-selling author, is my co-host today. He's author of the brand-new book that comes out tomorrow, Own Your Past, Change Your Future, a not-so-complicated approach to relationships, mental health, and wellness. David is in Canada. Hi, David. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hello. Hi. How can we help? Well, we have a question about identity.

First of all, both of you, thank you so much for certainly the content you create, and we're grateful for our plan. We started in February, March of 2019 with $113,000 Canadian dollars worth of debt. We're around, we're at $83,079 right now, so basically $8,400. You know, the finish line is imminent, and Tina and I kind of want to know, like, who are we after we achieve this goal? This has been a long haul. We don't really have a strong sense of where to go next. Wow, that's incredible.

So what got you started on this journey that long ago? Family member's an appropriate gift. A family member gave another family member a copy of the Total Money Makeover. And Christina and I were, you know, sort of victims of our own lifestyle creep. And we had purchased a fixer-upper, and 99% my idea. And it was a total, total dumpster fire. It was by far the least thought-out renovation project in Ontario. You just found yourself in a hole? You better believe it. All right, so you've worked together for three years now,

crushing and grinding. You're about $8,500 away from the finish line. What do you guys want to do next? Like, what do you want to do? What do we want to do, Dina? Live life. We want to own? What do we want to do, Dina? Live life. We want to own a home at some point. In the sort of short term,

like we're married 10 years in April of 2023, I was kind of thinking that Disney World would be nice. Okay, so if you just draw another short finish line here, you're going to just keep jumping from finish line to finish line. I want you to do something completely different. And you've probably heard me say this on my show a million times. The best analogy I've ever heard is they could never go sweep up all the glass and steel and dust from the Twin Towers and rebuild those Twin Towers with that dust and that same glass and that same steel. The buildings fell and it's over, right? So we have to excavate it.

Sometimes you have to go get professionals to help you, but you excavate it and then you have to draw what's going to be in its place. What's going to come next? And it can be negative situations or it can be really positive things we just the last kid just went to college and then now what now we get to excavate what was and we get to completely redesign what what comes next using all of our experiences and talents that we've got and then lean into what's this thing going to look like um dave you've been taking this question for 30 years when people get to that finish line okay i'm debt free and they scream it then they go okay now now I've still got to live with you.

What have you seen that is helpful in helping them rebuild, reimagine something new? Yeah, I think, again, you set another goal, but it's not a short-term goal. It's an identity goal. You mentioned the phrase identity, and, John, you and I have talked offline about our friend James Clear's book, At Clear's book, Atomic Habits. And one of the things he talks about with Atomic Habits is you clearly say, I used to be a person that smoked. Now I'm a non-smoker.

Okay? Instead of I don't smoke anymore. Now you couch the language and identity. I used to be a person, David, that borrowed money. I don't borrow money anymore. And I'm a person that wants to build wealth and be incredibly generous. And I want to do all the things that wealth entails, which is, A, enjoy it, and B, give it and enjoy even more the generosity of it. And that's my reasoning for continuing to build wealth i i have never suggested nor have i personally done a thing where i build wealth just

for the purpose of a single vacation or for a or for the purpose of being wealthy i'm not trying to be wealthy i'm trying to do the things that wealth does. And so that's an identity. I'm a wealthy person that enjoys money and incredible generosity. And that's my identity. And I decided that after I was a person that went bankrupt. David, if you think about identity as that new building, my wife and I, we sat down years ago, and we were trying to figure out what our marriage is going to look like what new work was going to look like and we actually made uh it's a small

we did it like with the kid with with our oldest son at the time but we just made a uh it was like a craft project basically but it was here's who the delonys are going to be we're going to be people who fill in the blood we We're people who say yes. We're people who have others over. And those decisions shaped the house that we bought. It shapes how we save money. It shapes the jobs I did or didn't take because it all leaned back to how do these actions back up and support this new identity, this new building that we're building.

See what I'm saying? Sharon and I got another minute example of that too is um sharon and i it took us a little while to realize we uh are not people who enjoy uh passive vacations we don't sit right where we go so if we're if we're going to africa we're going to go all over the place and see every freaking animal you know we're not going to sit and hope the animal wanders by you know i mean we're out there hunting them with a camera right and so uh right we're in action and so we plan the the vacations in that regard other people want to go and sit and put their feet in the sand and read a book and never move uh i can do that at home

personally so i don't do that but but we just that's a nuanced thing we decided and both of us enjoy that type of travel and so when we're booking travel it's action oriented travel but to reverse engineer or event travel you start taking golf lessons right and because i want to be out moving and doing things so i'm going to learn how to do this thing. So it impacted your actions on a day-to-day basis for these things later on, right? And I'm a guy who I naturally, in the evening when I'm at home, and someone says, hey, let's come back out. We're going to go grab something to eat. We're going to go watch the fights. My inclination is I'm just going to sit here.

But I had said I'm going to be a guy who says yes to things, who goes on adventures. And so I drag myself out. I'm going to get in the car. You're a guy that used to to things who goes on adventures and so i drag myself out i'm gonna get so you're a guy that used to be in debt david now you're a guy that is getting out of debt and now you're a guy that the next step is you're a guy that doesn't borrow money yep i used to but i don't borrow money anymore i used to smoke but i don't smoke anymore i i didn't but i mean that's what clear talks about the that's right changing the language that in that states the identity and that's what clear talks about the that's right changing the language that in that states the identity and that's not positive thinking it's observation i am no longer that person that's right i am now this person and i think that the positive thinking movement that goes with your

book that's exactly right it in fact i i talked about that one of the chapters yeah on your past is creating this this identity moving forward and so david i see this as a moment like one of the chapters yeah on your past future yeah is creating this this identity moving forward and so david i see this as a moment like one of the few moments in your adult life and you'll do this you know four or five six times when you get to plan and shape what this thing looks like and it's going to be loosely held of course but what a cool exercise to go spend a half day retreat with your wife and say okay we're not running for our lives anymore what do we want this thing to look like yeah now i'm a person that doesn't eat 63 donuts yeah i was unbelievably fat during covid but i'm not anymore and i'm not going to self-identify as a person who eats every donut in a 50 mile radius i have done it in the past but i cannot do that because i get as big as this room. I look like the marshmallow man.

And for Lent, I gave up sugar this year, which was a bad idea. You know that. That was hard. But instead of saying, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I said, I'm a guy who doesn't eat sugar. And I just didn't, Dave. And I wish I could tell you why or how. It was a light switch for me. I just don't.

There's something about the language change that, well, out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. That's it, man. So it's biblical. But this idea that you reset your mind and you go, I used to be a person that did that, but now I'm this person. Now I'm a person who doesn't borrow money, and I'm pursuing wealth for the purpose of enjoyment and generosity and changing my family tree. That's so great. What an identity, man. Yeah, and so you just give yourself a different way of looking at things. for the purpose of enjoyment and generosity and changing my family tree. That's so great. What an identity, man.

Yeah, and so you just give yourself a different way of looking at things. And you can do that at 84 years old or you can do it at 24 years old. It's not an age thing. It's a decision thing. Congratulations, David. That's a really good question. Way to go, David, by the way.

Way to go. This is The Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage. Allie is with us. Hey, Allie, how are you? I'm doing well. How are you? Better than I deserve. Where do you live? In Minnesota. Cool. What part? Kind of like west-central Minnesota. It's a little town called Bluffton. It's like 200 people.

Wonderful. Well, welcome to Nashville. Thank you. And all the way to Tennessee to do a debt-free scream. Yes. west central minnesota it's a little town called bluffton's like 200 people wonderful well welcome to nashville and all the way to tennessee to do a debt-free scream how much have you paid off i paid off uh fifty nine thousand seventy eight dollars and 38 cents cool how long did this take you um 13 months and three days whoa look at you and your range of income during that year. Well, so I started at $58,000 gross and then when I was done, I was making about $99,000 and then now I make about $120,000. Whoa, what do you do for a living? I'm a labor and delivery nurse. Oh, good for you.

Yeah. Okay, you get the award for most sparkly debt-free scream. Thank you. What is the deal with the sparkly? Please tell me that's your lab coat. I wish. That would be awesome if I could wear this to work. If you could deliver a baby in that, that would be awesome.

I know. The people at Walmart would actually hallucinate. Yeah, disco. That's it, yeah. Exciting. No, I just really like glitter. Okay, okay. So, yeah, I saw it walking past a store one day.

I thought maybe you came to nashville and it got out of control no no this is my normal okay you got on a pedal tavern dave and then all of a sudden that's it yeah what happens when you get on a pedal tavern in nashville no it's cool i love it that's very nice very nice appropriate so what happened 13 months ago that put you on this journey this this debt-free journey? Tell us your story. Yeah, well, actually, it starts more like high school. My parents went through some pretty rough financial times, and then they took Financial

Peace University, and we're kind of Dave-ish, but they always talk to me about, like, don't get any credit cards. So you're a Financial Peace baby-ish. Yes. Yes. I know. I was like, don't get any credit cards. So you're a financial peace baby-ish. Yes. I know. I was like, I think-ish probably. But yeah, so I was always like, you know, I tracked my spending. I didn't necessarily have a budget that I stuck to, but I was really hardcore about it.

My junior year of college, like the summer between my sophomore and junior year, because I was saving up to go and junior year because I was saving up to go to Costa Rica because I studied abroad there for four months and I got really burnt out like I just was like I don't ever want to do this again it was terrible because I was working every single day and so then fast forward I met David my fiance and he was like, he was debt free. And he's like, oh, but it's so awesome. You know, think about when we get married, we could go and be debt free and, you know, yeah, just change our family tree. And I'm like, I did that once before and I don't really want to do that again because it was horrible. But then I just, one day I just remember thinking about

all the things that I could do if I didn't have this debt hanging over my head. What kind of debt was it? I had student loans from two bachelor's degrees and then a car loan. Okay. So, yeah. But, yeah, I remember standing to October 13, 2020. I was in my kitchen and I was like, what am I doing? I make so much money and I I have the

potential to make more money too I'm a nurse you know and so I just decided right then and there that I was like I'm gonna do this and yeah I told David I was like I'm doing it I'm doing the Dave Ramsey debt snowball you know so I just decided and just went from there so looked up the materials again and yeah I have actually dialed it in or what? Yeah, I've read, I mean, that junior year, like I talked about that summer, I listened to Financial Peace University on CD, driving to and from work. And then I read Entre Leadership. I read Total Money Makeover.

I read Financial Peace University, like the book form too. And then I think I started watching on YouTube. Like, I mean, now I just binge watch it all the time. So that's what I did while I was paying off. $59,000 in a year is pretty impressive. Yeah, yeah, I went hard. How did you almost tripled your salary? Yeah, so COVID actually was a little bit of a blessing for me

because I was needed at work and they started doing bonuses. Um, when I like, sometimes when you picked up, it was like already extra incentive and you would work more and then you get more incentive. And, um, and then I started about, I was, but I was killing myself. Like there was times when I was just like so exhausted and I got COVID in July because it was just working all the time. And my immune system was like, we don't like this. This is not a good deal. But, um, I, um, I started travel nursing. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So that helped me. Yeah. Bigger shovel for sure. Yeah. And I'd always, I'd always wanted to do it

but it just happened to be like a really good time that thought again kind of popped in my head i was like i'm gonna do this i'm just gonna do it now your parents are hovering around in your memory david's kind of pushing this forward from the fiance perspective and you looked down and went okay i'm doing it yeah yeah it was it's kind of i'm kind of one of those people like it has to be my idea yeah to do it but yeah. Wise man. Your fiance's nodding, yes. Yeah. I can just see her walking out her front yard being like,

I declare day! Her neighbors think she's lost it. Yeah, exactly. Congrats. Congratulations. Thank you. Proud of you. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is?

You know, there's a couple that I have in the back of my head. I think that having a vision for how you want your life to be, you know, I think that's huge. It's, you know, the debt snowball is only one baby step. It's baby step number two, you know, there's how many other baby steps, you know, and so you have to think big picture, like where I want my life to be. And then you have to make that committed decision to stick with the plan and just go for it. Day after day, you commit and you recommit. Give yourself grace when you mess up

because it's going to happen. And maybe you take $5 out of your fund money and just go buy yourself a coffee, sit yourself down and be like, I can do this, okay, we can do this. And then keep going. Sounds like that happened. Yeah. Yeah, there were times when i was just like so tired i didn't want to go to work and i was just like you know i get gung-ho about picking up a shift or something

and then you know a week later i have to work it and they actually need me and i'm like oh man i really just don't want to go i'm glad you mentioned that because we talk a lot about like i just i just sucked it up and grinded it out and i got a third job and then all of a sudden a year later it was over there are a lot of those mornings that you're like i signed up for what i know like i just worked all day yesterday and you're like yeah my eyes are crossing you put your name on the schedule and i gotta have a cup of coffee i'm gonna go i'm gonna go right back into it there's a lot of nights when well night, night stays, I don't even know. I worked anything and everything that was open. I picked up shifts.

I work OB. Babies and pregnant people are my thing. I was doing some ICU shifts and med-surg shifts. I'm like, I don't like taking care of adults that don't have a baby in them. I was like, I'm going to do this. Yeah. But yes, it is a grind. And you just got to, like, drink your coffee and probably some water, too,

because you might be a little low on that and just keep going. And it also helps to have a supportive person in your life. So David's cheering you on. Oh, my gosh. Every time they text me and be like, hey, like, we need help. And, you know, he and I were just even going to hang out at home. He was like, yeah, babe, go get it. Go make that money, you know. he and I were just even going to hang out at home. He was like, yeah, babe, go get it. Go make that money.

You know, so he was very supportive. But, yeah, I think that it's understanding that it's only a season. And the other thing is it's just for a season. Exactly. It's 13 whole months out of your entire life. Yeah. And, I mean, I changed my family tree. Now you work whenever you want, wherever you want, only when you want. you don't have any payments no you work like no one else later you can work like no

one else you know it's like no i don't think so yeah and you can give like no one else too like i mean now it's still smaller skill than i want it to be but i have all these dreams of you know creating scholarships for people and helping people get through their education and just you know i love animals so i want to help that too it's amen so well congratulations we're very proud of you thank you so have y'all set a date yes august 13th here we go yeah all right get him on we got a copy of baby steps millionaires for you that's the next chapter for you and david after august 13th that's pretty cool another copy of total money makeover you can can give it away and be part of someone else's story, stirring up a ruckus.

So good stuff. John and I, the whole Ramsey team, we're proud of you. Very well done. Allie from Minnesota, 59,000 in 13 months, making 58 all the way to 120. Kicking it. Count it down. Let's hear a glittery, debt-free scream. Three, two, one.

I'm debt-free! I'm debt-free scream three two one i'm debt-free that's how they do it in minnesota i'm just saying this is the ramsey show Thank you. crazy how time flies the pre-order of dr john deloney's new book on your past change your future is ending today here's why you would pre-order today. You only buy the book for $20, but you get the audiobook and the e-book for free, and you get free weekly therapy sessions from BetterHelp for one month. You don't want to miss out on this. It's a great, great bargain. This book, Own Your Past, Change Your Future, The Not-So-Complicated Approach to Relationships, Mental Health, and Wellness. Absolutely incredible. incredible hey john's going on the road going to do a couple of book signings this thursday he'll be in phoenix april the 21st at 6 p.m at the barnes and noble at desert ridge

marketplace on tatum boulevard and then next week a week from wednesday in Dallas, Texas, at the Barnes & Noble in Prestonwood Town Center on Beltline Road. Wednesday, April the 27th at 6 p.m. If you're in Dallas or Phoenix, mark those down. You can find the dates and locations and everything on our website as well. And be sure you come in. If you ever wanted Dr. John Deloney to sit down with you face-to-face and walk you through what's happened with you, maybe you're healing from a traumatic experience. Maybe you have had things in your past.

Maybe you're just dealing with anxiety from COVID. Whatever it is you're dealing with, everyone has dealt with something or is dealing with something right now. This is his method of sitting down with you because he logistically can't be everywhere at once, and it's through this book. It will change your life. The people inside this building that have read the book the advanced readers that have read the book are all going crazy about it because it just grabs you and it gives you a framework for dealing with and thinking

about the past owning your past so you can change your future alissa is with us alissa is in green bay wisconsin hi alissa Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So the reason I'm calling is because last week I had a miscarriage. I'm so sorry.

Thank you. And the question I had was my husband and I are baby steps four five and six so when we found out we were pregnant we kind of paused on the extra chunks we normally throw at our mortgage and we put it in a separate account um to just kind of keep it there um as we go through pregnancy and now that I'm no longer pregnant I looked over at that and I thought oh I should throw that at the mortgage um but then there was also a part of me that was like, I want to do something with it. I want to go somewhere. And I guess my question is, what's the difference between being in a place that we can take the time away and do something for ourselves versus grief spending or being

irresponsible in some way. It fits the framework of what we teach, so I'm not going to call it irresponsible. All right. Now, what we teach is you're not in, if you were in baby step two, I'd have to kind of cock my head and cry with you a minute and think about with this pain what we're going to do. But you're past baby step three, and that's where you do things. That's where you buy a couch. That's where you go on a trip. That's where you upgrade the car with cash that you have.

In your case, you were using it. You had it labeled for one thing. You want to change the label of it to trip to get away. And so it's not financially irresponsible. Irresponsible. The question is, you know, then do you want to, you know, you want to make sure you're doing this from a healthy perspective in terms of processing the grief. Yeah. So here's what I would tell you, Alyssa, that would be important. This trip is important. And I think you for sure should take a trip.

I would put a little bit of money aside to give away. There's something about giving that is healing in these moments. And this is going to give away. There's something about giving that is healing in these moments. And this is going to be hard. I'm going to say this really abruptly because we just have a short time together. If you and I were sitting down talking one-on-one, I would probably be a little more eloquent in my speech. Okay. This trip in and of itself won't heal your hurt. What this trip can do is provide a little bit of space for you and your husband to sit down and just be sad together. Because you all had plans, right? And you've had a loss.

And so the trip in and of itself won't be the gift. The trip will provide space for you all to then begin healing. I strongly, strongly, strongly – I've been down this road multiple times in my own home strongly recommend some sort of um even if it's just you too some sort of funeral some sort of remembrance some sort of marker for this moment and it'll be a touchstone for you and your husband as y'all both move into the future right into what comes next um but yeah i say go on the trip leave a little money for forgiving though that's important yeah have some spa days and there's nothing as um uh but but i'm with john you you know this but we're just saying out loud kind of what you

were thinking okay the trip is good do the trip but there's no place on earth beautiful enough or peaceful enough to make you not hurt you're hurting yeah okay and just be okay with it yeah be okay with that in other words the trip is not an elixir that allows you to sidestep the grief and the hurt and the pain and listen let me tell you this this hurts i i miss this big time um in my own home and so I'll, I carry that. I'll carry that for the rest of my life. There is a, an entire ecosystem that is designed to tell you, well,

this isn't that big of a, well, it should have been. And people are going to give you their terrible advice and their stuff that you can sew on a pillow and all that kind of stuff. You need to spend some time with people who will just sit with you and aren't going to throw advice at you. Aren't going to give you a bunch of labels. aren't going to give you a bunch of nonsense.

And you need to know that your hurt right now and your pain and your loss is valid and it's real and it's holy. And as your friend, I'm so sorry that this happened to you. Amen. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it. You betcha. Take the trip, but don't turn the trip into something it's not.

Don't give it that kind of power. Right. Right. Yeah. Thank you. take the trip but don't turn the trip into something it's not don't give it that kind of power right right yeah thank you and just it's and and you know we want to give you permission to hurt we're hurting with you yeah and just um yeah but y'all just sit you know somewhere on the beach or wherever you're going and cry a little bit that'll be okay okay thank you so much yeah you bet god, darling. Sorry you're going through this. Hey, and I appreciate you saying that, Dave, because when she asked that question, I thought, I've been here for a few years and I never heard that question asked. Well, she's a baby step four. Yeah, I love that your default was four.

Again, if she's on two, I got to think about- Well, you're all still running for your lives. Yeah. You know, you got two different things coming at you now. That's right. You got this overwhelming debt you're trying to get out of with because of intensity and how how are we going to get but the trip the purpose of the trip here i'm not putting words in your mouth but in my mind it's give yourself some space to grieve and you

can create space to grieve without spending a lot of money if you were in baby step two absolutely you can't there's something powerful about the change but in this case in this case she's got the money to create some luxurious space to grieve and that's okay yeah it's okay to spend it on that one of the things when uh we're writing this book we're talking about the our culture that we have about loss and and people that we love passing and it hit me. I remember where I was when I was typing these out. If you are in debt, if you're running for your life, and you owe six figures of student loans, and you work hourly, you have to do a cost-benefit analysis on how much can I even attend this funeral.

And I thought, how much more important is living a life without debt? Because it gives you space to actually live your life. And I think I've always thought of living your life as going on a vacation, as doing the thing, paying for college. But what if I just need a week to process when my mom passes away? What if I need to buy a plane ticket tonight to go be with my uncle before he passes away? These are all things that I didn't consider when I was six figures in student loan debt, right? And it just provides you a space and some margin just to breathe when life comes at you.

Money is not important at all. What money does is unbelievably important. Feeds your children, gives you a plane ticket to go see your uncle, gives you a little space, in her case, to have a luxurious, which is fine, time of margin. It gives you that. It turns a crisis into an inconvenience. Now, not in her situation. I'm not saying miscarriage is an inconvenience.

I'll tell you this. I've sat with people in the middle of the night that say, I don't know how to pay for a coffin. I don't know what's next here. But it turns the the no matter what the drama is, being broke adds layers to the drama. Big time. That's right. And we all run into drama. It's hurt on top of hurt on top of hurt.

I drove my four-wheeler in a ditch this weekend, broke the front axle off the thing. So is that a problem? No. I'll just get another one. I didn't bump my head too hard, you know. But that's, you know, in the old days, my buddy and I were laughing about it. We're like, in the old days, this would have been the next two weeks of our life dealing with this stupid thing. Now I just left it there and said, get somebody to come get it fixed.

Good Lord. You know, so it just adds drama to the drama. Dr. John Deloney's new book, Own Your Past, Change Your Future. Get it on preorder while you can. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, it's John Deloney, co-host of The Ramsey Show. Did you know over 18 million people listen to The Ramsey Show every week? A lot of those people listen on one of our 600-plus radio stations across the country. To find a station near you, go to RamseySolutions.com slash show.