The Ramsey Show - App - What Can I Do To Make More Money? (Hour 2)

Episode Date: November 9, 2022

Dave Ramsey & Ken Coleman discuss: How you can increase your income, Feeling stuck, Dealing with the loss of a company car. Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Pod's moving and storage studio, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. Thank you for joining us, America. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author of the book Paycheck to Purpose, and also host of the Ken Coleman Show here on the Ramsey Networks, is my co-host today.

We are answering your questions. Todd is in Los Angeles. Hi, Todd. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hello. Hi, what's up? I'm calling because I'm a special education teacher, um, at a local high school and I'm interested in increasing my, my income and I'm kind of on the fence as far as what's the best strategy to do that. Well, do you have a plan as to where you would go from that special education position? What's that ladder look like, or what are you considering?

Well, there's a couple things that bounce around in my head. One of them is trying to take on a second job in the evenings and weekends, so I could increase my income that way. It would be kind of an immediate fix, but at the same time, uh, I need to sleep and I need, you know, I think I'd be really exhausted if I did that. Sure. Um, um, and I think that would probably, I could probably earn approximately $50,000 more a year.

Okay. Um, the other option is something I've been thinking about is, and that would be going back to school to get like my PhD in psychology or something like that. Um, and the motivation with that is I've, I've got experience working with,

um, you know, students with autism and learning disabilities. So I'm already kind of dealing with a neurocognitive type stuff. And I think if I were to go back and get a degree in psychology, I think I would have more opportunities to earn significantly more. Okay, so that's the exercise. So you're already down that path.

You just have to confirm this. If you get a Ph.D. in psychology, what does that now qualify you for as it relates to stepping up the ladder and an extension of what you're already doing? You have to know that. It's not something where we prospect on that. That's a lot of time and money for you to go get a Ph.D. Even if you got the cash for it, we don't want you to go into debt. And so you've got to know that you know. There's a simple construct that I will give to you that i give to everybody who's considering school is it the only way to go where

you want to go and you're not really clear yet and you need to get a little bit clearer on here are some options for me option a b or c when you finish this degree what are you going to be doing for your day job every day that makes you a living and what does it pay and does it require the degree that's the exercise right now you've kind of got this well if i had a degree i'd probably be worth more money not really that's yeah probably not because you'll be one of those aimless people with degrees out there wandering in the traffic again yeah okay because here's the deal here's the good news you may not need a higher ed degree to make more money you know you've got to play this out it's that simple is it the only way if you want

to be a licensed psychologist you're gonna have at least a master's in psychology in every state now so um you know that is that's that's permission to play there that's table stakes so uh you know so you need to identify exactly when this is over what you will be doing for a living that's if you want to get a phd and go back and teach in college fine if you want to do research fine if you want to be doing therapy on a daily basis fine then what degree is required for the knowledge base and for licensing that sets you up to win yeah you don't you don't pick a uh a mode of transportation and then decide where you want to go you decide where you want to go multiple options now what's the best way to get there so you're on the right track but you've got the order flipped. And it's that simple. Then we decide, oh, okay, great. What can I make here? Will I enjoy the work? Check.

Yes. What does it take to get qualified to do it? Now I put the plan together to climb the mountain. So, and I would say this, in the short term, I would choose between exhaustion and making the same amount of money. I also think there's a narrative there that I want to challenge you on, Todd. To make more money, you don't have to choose exhaustion. And I understand you can work some extra hours, but you don't have to choose exhaustion. You can go, all right, I'm not going to work myself into oblivion and be burned out physically, mentally, and emotionally, but I'm going to work some hours more to bring in some more income. I choose that as you're making the decision. Yeah yeah and and again that may be how you fund school that's what i'm thinking that's a

possibility so then it then it becomes you got a reason to take the extra hours just generally speaking i want to work on a part-time job so i have more money yeah not unless you have something to do with the money uh again very goal-, very intentional in every step and in the direction that you're going. Katie is in Cincinnati. Hi, Katie. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, guys. How are you?

Great. What's up? First of all, I just want to say thank you. We've paid off $60,000 in debt in the last few years, so I'm super excited about that. Great. Thank you very much. And my question is, um, so basically I am a photographer by trade. I work full time for a big corporate company and I'm, I've been here for

four years and just recently got back from maternity leave and, um, had been working towards getting a promotion at this job. But then when I got back, they had hired someone else to basically take on the lead position here. So I'm kind of in this spot where I feel like I'm not progressing in this career or in this company, basically. And I'm starting to kind of toss around the idea of possibly going out and branching out on my own and freelance. But I guess what I'm trying to ask is I'm kind of nervous to do it in a way, but also because we're paying off debt, I don't want to hinder any of that. So I'm just trying to figure out a way. Is this the right move?

Should I do that? Or should I just kind of grin and bear it for the next foreseeable future? Well, I think that's a conversation that you as a family unit have got to make, have a conversation on that. I would lean towards sticking it out where you are so that when you go into full-time photography to work for yourself, you do not have this massive pressure. And you put all this pressure on yourself when you go,

okay, I'm going to go work for myself, and we've got this debt snowball we're still working through. And I don't think that's going to allow you to be, A, as creative as you need to be. And I think it's going to put a lot of pressure on you, and't need that what i would do is stay where you are and i would start doing some photography on the side to increase the rate of which we're paying off the debt yeah start as a side hustle and now that sets you up to make the to make the transition once you guys have paid off the debt got the emergency fund fully funded yeah and i'm doing that now too so i just was like my gosh i'm i love doing what i do i just have gotten to this point where i feel like i'm pushing

and pushing pushing to get to this you know i think that's the bigger issue let's let's throw out the truth that i'm hearing okay if i'm in your shoes this is how i would be okay you just had a baby. And when you went back to work, they hurt your feelings. Yes. Which means you're like a human, right? Yeah. That's a normal reaction to what happened to you at the worst possible time. And so you're just kind of both sad and mad at the same time, and you want to give them the finger.

But I'm going to be an adult and not do that right now.'m going to hang out there get my act together and then just stroll out the door when i'm ready yeah don't get discouraged stay disciplined and remember you're doing all of this to not pay off debt only but also to do your dream job down the road សូវាប់ពីបានប់ពីបានប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពី thank you for joining us america every week on our show we hear from callers who are in the wrong career or not using their talents. It's happening in the kin. It is a lot. And so we, as an organization, Dave, a couple years ago, we got together. We have some smart people in this building, like really smart people. We try not to let them on the air, though.

Right. And so we said to developers, what if we could help people identify what they do best? That's their talent, their top passions, that's work they really enjoy doing. And then a sense of mission, meaning what motivates them? What results do you want to put out into the world? And so we put it together. It's called the Get Clear Career Assessment. And it is a wonderful tool that takes about 20 minutes. And in about 20 minutes, you're going to get a very specific report in those three areas. What are your top areas of talent? What are the top areas of passion, work you love to do?

And then what results motivate you? And you talk a lot about motivation. You've always said you can't motivate wet wood. And this is the idea that if you're in work that you're good at, that you love, and that produces results that get you up in the morning, get you fired up, then you've got a great chance of not just making great money but making great impact. So we created the assessment, and tens of thousands of people have taken it. It's a $30 price point at RamseySolutions.com. Pretty simple.

If you do the Get Clear assessment, I can make you one promise. You will be clearer. Yeah, and that leads to confidence. And you can make you one promise you will be clearer yeah and that leads to confidence you know and you can make the right decision because a lot of people they earl nightingale used to say people spend more time picking out a suit of clothes than they do their career isn't that true and it's like they and they fret and you know you're getting ready to buy a piece of electronics you read all the consumer reports data you do everything else you do all this deep research to buy a freaking stereo or a TV or whatever.

And then you just go, why'd you take that job? My buddies said they were hiring. Okay, tell me how many times I've heard somebody say, I fell into it. I just fell into it. It was the first thing offered after college. Here I am 38 years later, and I've been miserable the whole time. That's the majority of American workers. Yeah.

Yeah. And no reason to be that way. No. No. Because here's what happens. Your income and your impact rise together when you're doing what you were created to do. And so that's what the assessment does. Great way for those of you that need a bigger shovel. The reality is, is to make more

money to get out of debt faster. You're going to do it by getting promoted or having to pivot, and this will help you. Good stuff. Blinds.com gives us our question of the day. They have a 100% guarantee. That means if you mess up, and I have, if you mismeasure, and I have, or you pick the wrong color, and I do, they'll remake your window blinds for free. You get free samples, free shipping, and with the new promos they run every month, you'll save even more. Always use the magic word. The promo code is Ramsey. Today's question comes from Tom in Illinois,

and this may be my favorite Blinds.com question of all time. I listen to the show every day, he says. I appreciate how you advise people about money, but I'd like to ask Dave. Given your net worth, Dave, why are you still working? It makes the assumption that I was working for money. That's right. It's true. And I quit working for money. That's right. It's true. And I quit working for money

a long time ago. I make money and I use it for keeping score because I want to know if I won the game. But am I actually serving? Because if you serve people, they'll give you certificates of appreciation with president's faces on them. My friend Rabbi Lappin says that. And so I like keeping score. But no, I don't. You're right. I'm not working because of my net worth. I'm not working because of that. I'm working because of the impact, what you said earlier. I mean, honestly, let's just be real. Okay, a couple guys.

I like this. Okay, you ready? Yeah. Who wouldn't like a job who for three hours every day people call and ask your opinion about something? That's a very good point. Where else would you get that get that so true you don't get that at home no you know where else do you get this yeah it's a it's a freaking ego stroke but i mean you speak in front of thousands and thousands of people you know millions here on the air yeah and you know people actually ask my opinion and some of them care about it and there's the thing your name splashed all over

the building that can't be bad walking in every day it's that don't do it that don't do it no i'm kidding that gets boring fast but yeah i mean really it's a great job well it is and you know you talk about this all the time i mean when we look at the problems in our culture um yeah i never i never you know i've never run into anybody in 30 years in a restaurant that came up to me and goes uh you know ram Ramsey, you got me out of debt. My life sucks. I hate you. Right.

That has never been said to me. It doesn't happen. I've had people mad at me about other things. Like, you don't need to talk so much about politics. You're mean on the radio. I hear that kind of stuff. Yeah. But nobody ever said, you know, you got me out of debt and I hate you.

It's true. It's absolutely true. I just never got that in 30 years. So, no, it's fun. It's a good question. Everybody loves to give their opinion. That's why that whole, remember Jay Leno, our friend? You know, they used to go on the streets.

That's why social media is a wreck. Ask people their opinion. They'll tell you anything. Yeah. Yeah. Social media is a wreck for that very reason. Oh, yeah. Gives a bunch of people an opinion that shouldn't have one.

You know, it's just crazy. So. That's why you do it. I like stirring up a ruckus. Yes. All right. Julie's with us in Atlanta. Hi, Julie.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hello. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I am currently changing employers. So I'm leaving my current company, and I'm over 55. My husband and I are fairly new to Baby Steps.

We're only three months in, so we're in Baby Step number two. Good. It's my understanding that I can cash out the 401K that's with my current employer since I'm 55 or older without penalty other than the taxes that I owe. So I'm wondering if that would be a good idea to put towards our debt snowball and then the best way to break up that snowball to have more of an effect. What do you do for a living currently? I'm a physical therapist. Okay. Most, all 401ks are a 59 and a half i have run into one or two particular occupations that are 55 and i don't

think you're one of them i think you might have bad info i don't think you can cash it out to 59 and a half um even if you can i'm going to tell you not to because i have a sense that you have the income to go ahead and clean up your debt now that you've decided to without destroying your retirement to do it how much is in the 401k um this one is only like 17 000 okay i had i've changed jobs over the years my husband's a football coach so we've moved around so i have a lot of them that i could roll in together and i just haven't done that so um you know i would get with a smart investor pro and roll them all and get them in one place so that you can manage them in good mutual funds. And then I think you're going to find that this 17 is going to be taxed and penalized. If it is, that means it's going to be like a 30 or 35% hit.

Right. And you wouldn't borrow money at 35% interest to pay off this debt. Right, right. So in that reason, I would roll it over. Yeah, I think it was... Yeah, and I would not roll it to... Clark Howard or something said you could do it at 55, but that, again, it might be bad info.

Who did? Who told you that? Clark Howard didn't tell me that. I mean, I heard on one of his radio shows. Yeah, Clark, he may have been addressing one of the particular occupations, and there's a few of them, and I'm pretty sure you're not it. Okay.

It's usually some kind of a special school district thing or maybe a railroad person, something in those areas. It's not a mainline corporate job like you've been having. So, you know, Clark's a friend of mine. He's very smart. And so probably who he was addressing at that moment was in that area. But most all of them are 59 1⁄2. So I'm going to tell you to roll it with the others with a SmartVestor Pro, not into your new 401K, but into mutual funds,

into a good rollover IRA, into good mutual funds. Alex is in Boston. Hey, Alex, what's up? Hey, not much, Dave. How are you doing today? Better than I deserve. How can I help? All right, excellent. Well, Dave, so I'm on Baby Steps 4, 5, and 6. I'm holding no debt except for my mortgage. I pay approximately $2,600 per month. I'm contributing 15% to my 401k. I make about $150,000 per year working as an outside sales

rep. I drive approximately 30,000 miles a year for work. Now, my employer provides me with a company car. I've had it for about 10 years, a couple cars over 10 years, and I just received word that that benefit will no longer be available come July 30th. Wow. My question is... No notice, huh? No notice.

It came as a shocker to me, actually, this morning. And my question is, I have a large commission check coming at the end of the month. How large? Give it 21K. Okay. Yeah, that's probably just buy a car with it. That's what you're going to need to do. You don't want to drive too expensive a car because whatever you drive with the miles you put on it, you're destroying its value.

You're a road warrior. And so this is a cost of doing business so they just gave you a pretty substantial pay cut even if they're giving you a car allowance they're doing this because it's good for them mathematically so pay cash for something that you can wear out and that is reasonably comfortable and reliable but you're going to wear it out and you're going to destroy its value so yeah yeah, 20 grand is probably max. This is the Ramsey Show. Are you sick of planned obsolescence? You know, when companies make products crappy, so you have to buy more of their crappy products?

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Zach is with us in Utah. Hi, Zach. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. How are you? Great, man. What's up? Hey, I'm a new listener to the show i started listening in in january this year i've heard i'd heard of dave ramsey but i i finally started

listening to the show in january and my wife and i became obsessed so we've paid off um all of our debt now except for our house. Great. That's a significant amount of debt. We had quite a bit of debt. We weren't following your principles, but we're now flying through the baby steps. Paid off $283,000 in debt so far this year. That's ridiculous. That's amazing.

Yeah, it feels really good. Did you sell one of your kids? How'd you do that? No, we've been fortunate. We've been blessed to have a really good income, and I've always been a saver. We didn't have a structure or a strategy, and so the Baby Steps, we bought into your program and attacked it with as much intensity as we could. Wow, you're doing great. How can we help today?

Thank you. So we're in a position now where all we have left is our mortgage, and we actually have enough saved almost exactly to pay off the mortgage today, but that wouldn't leave us with any sort of emergency fund. And so, anyway, the goal is, my goal is to get my wife and my four kids, we want to be at your studio doing our complete debt-free screen by the end of the year. I'm just wondering what you would recommend as far as how much of an emergency fund i should have before we go ahead and pay off the house okay wow what's the balance on the house uh 390 000 somewhere in there and you have that in savings i do and you paid off 283 000 i have what do you make? About a half million a year. Okay.

That still doesn't do those numbers. That's amazing. Yeah, like I say, I've been... You've been doing this more than since January then? Or you already had savings? Well, I've been saving more than since January, yes. Yeah, okay. All right, wow.

We've had a good income for a lot of years. We just haven't followed your program. We were kind of done with debt. We had a home equity line of credit with a bunch of debt that we didn't need. Okay. And that's the way it's at. Well, let's just, I mean, we can play around with all kinds of numbers. The rule of thumb on the emergency fund is three to six months of expenses.

Obviously, if your house is paid off, your expenses are lower, but you need some money laying around so when life happens. It's a grandma's rainy day fund, right? That's what that is. In your world, I mean, your expenses are going to be fairly low. So, I mean, I would think 20 or 30, or $30,000, probably $30,000. I'm just making that up. That ought to cover you for more than three months, shouldn't it?

Well, that would make me nervous. I've never had that little. Okay. So what would you like for your emergency fund to be? Well, I mean, the thing that makes me the most nervous, my job, it's been really good, but it's always changing. It's a 100% commission job, and that's kind of why I'm the way I am. So what does it take to operate your household, everything included, taxes, property taxes, insurance, insurance groceries what's it take to

operate your household for a month i would say probably i knew that this debt being paid off but i'd say probably at least six thousand a month okay so three of those would be 18. Six of those would be 36. Okay. So I said 30. If you want to say 40, it doesn't need to be 80. Okay. So, you know, anywhere 30 to 50 is going to be good with me. That sounds like it's about that, you know, because you want some extra cushion, and I'm good with me uh that sounds like it's about that you know because you want some extra cushion and i'm good with that but i mean and we're going to add to the valid fact that your income is somewhat

volatile or potentially volatile so if we do that how long does it take you let's call it 40 just for discussions purposes okay so that means you're if you if you hold 40 aside you throw everything else at the mortgage you got a forty,000 balance on the mortgage, right? Right. How fast do you pay that off by Christmas? One month. I could do that. One month.

Well, I could do that next month. Okay. Yeah. Well, let's do that. Yeah. Yeah, just write them a check right now for everything but $40,000, hold $40,000 back, and next month send them a check for $40,000 and be done. Okay. I was thinking maybe waiting until I had it all plus the emergency fund and then paying out.

But you'd recommend paying everything back now. No, I just throw it at it now. I throw it at it now. Okay. Because here's what this is doing. It's getting you, because you're deriving more peace from this pile of money than you are from the debt-free house. And I want to move that peace location over to the debt-free house. So I'm going to go ahead and throw all this money, about $40, at that and get you used to having $40 in the account.

Oh, and by the way, by Christmas, you're going to have a lot more than $40 in the account because you're going to keep saving. Because you can't keep yourself from doing it. Right. Okay, we'll get her done. Yeah, so congratulations, man. What do you do for a living? Thank you. I run a sales team.

Solar is what we do. Wow. Solar in Utah. Yeah. Big, big business. Yeah. Wow. Good for you.

He's killing it. That's wonderful. Yeah. Amazing to be able to save that amount of money. So I don't know that this is true today, but I have heard throughout my 40-plus year working life that overall one of the best paid positions anywhere is sales. That's still correct absolutely because there's guys like that or guys like we had a minute ago that we wanted to go to luxury real estate but was in making bank and tech sales or you got guys and gals that are pharmaceutical sales 200 300 a year you've got

a medical device sales 200 300 a year. You've got real estate sales. Yeah. Here's one for you that you don't even think about, just to illustrate your point. I played golf with a guy the other day. He makes big, crazy money. You know what he sells? Those giant pipes that you see along the side of the road when you put into development. It's all about moving water.

But somebody sells those things, and they're big dollars. Because you think about construction companies or governments are paying for those things. Yeah, and he's the guy who makes the deal. And he's selling those things. There you go. And here's another interesting thing. The number of sales and marketing people that end up being presidents of companies is greater than a lot of other positions. It is a natural flow of things.

And so a guy like what Zach's doing, he's got, my point is he's not only making bank, but he's got tremendous upside potential even from that. So, yeah, sales is not a negative career path by any stretch. No. Yeah, you can do very, very well there. Ryan's in Knoxville. Hey, Ryan, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Thanks for having me. No. You can do very, very well there. Ryan's in Knoxville. Hi, Ryan. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Thanks for having me. Sure. What's up? So I have recently been given a job opportunity that when you compare salaries compared to my current job, it pays more, but after reviewing benefits, it seems like it possibly could be a pay cut.

But this job is doing something more along the lines of what I want to do versus what I'm currently doing, which is not necessarily what I want to do. What's the long-term potential on this? It is with a private company that has been growing for over the last five years and is projected to grow more. And with that, their teams and opportunities will continue to grow. And it's the kind of work you want to be doing? Yes, it's a lot more along the lines uh of what i what i want dave what do you think i i tend to take i'd bet on myself if it's really where you want to be long term and i'd fix my budget a little bit to absorb that if you feel like you're going to make

more in the short term yeah it um i guess the question is how much is difference is it a thirty thousand dollar a year difference or a $3,000 a year difference? Yeah, don't take the big difference. We're talking a little bit. If it's a $3,000 a year difference, shut up and go do the new thing. Stop your whining. If it's a $30,000, then maybe you need to rethink it. Yeah, say pass.

Yeah. This is The Ramsey Show. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author of the book Paycheck to Purpose, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us. Don is with us in Kansas. Hey, Don, welcome to the Ramsey Show. How are you doing, gentlemen? Great, man.

How can we help? I've got a question. I've been following your baby steps for a little while, me and the wife, and we've got everything paid off debt-free but the house. And we've been paying extra on the house, but I know you said to pump the brakes. You know, I'm transferring my post-9-11 GI bill to my kids for college, We've been paying extra on the house, but I know you said to pump the brakes. I'm transferring my post-9-11 GI bill to my kids for college, so we've got that taken care of.

But I'm wondering if it makes sense with the way the markets are right now, and we're locked in at 1.75 on our mortgage, to just pay the minimum and then maybe take that extra and invest it, or does would make more sense to go ahead and just knock it out, you know, and get it off our chest. Baby step four is 15% of your income going into retirement. Five is kids' college. Everything else goes on six to pay off the house as soon as possible. Now, here's the reason I'm going to stick with that, because it works. That's why I'm going to stick with it.

When we studied the 10,167 millionaires with the largest study of millionaires ever done in North America, we found they typically had the people that have $1 to $5 million net worth, their first $1 to $5 million. They typically had two major components to that one was a wonderfully funded 401k roth ira and this two was a paid for house the number of those millionaires that told us that they maximize their investing by not paying off their house was minuscule it was approaching zero so the vast majority of those people who built wealth went ahead and paid off the house and so they didn't try to play the downside on the market i like your style that while everybody else is freaking out and running you're going to run into the burning building, which I like.

I agree with your math analysis. I think the market's on sale. It's a good time to buy it. And if I got a 1.75, golly, I kind of like the way you're thinking. But I'm going to stick with this basic idea that over time continues to work, which is get the house paid off and fund your retirement and then fund everything is maxed out and baby step seven after the house is paid off so you're going to just be glad that house is paid off later yeah again dave the data and then just

you for 30 years it works and uh you know some, well, I'm going to try to play the math this way. And at the end of the day, that house is going to be a tremendous investment and I think a much more stable investment than playing the stock market, obviously. I mean, you're going to have both. You're going to have both going, and that's fine. And I do. I have both. But I'm just going to – the temptation to buy the mutual funds while they're on sale is real yeah and that's the right way to look at the situation that we're in in the economy right now

instead of going oh god i gotta cash out no that's the exact wrong way to look at it both cases i'm still gonna tell you do the same thing but I'm dealing with different emotions, and one has run into it. What is it? Buffett says be greedy when others are cautious and cautious when others are greedy. And he doesn't mean greedy like, you know, he means like just be aggressive with your investing. Kenny is with us. Kenny is in Dixon, Tennessee. Hi, Kenny.

How are you? I'm good, sir. How are you? Better than we deserve. What's up? Well, I've got a question for you, Kenny. How are you? I'm good, sir. How are you? Better than we deserve. What's up? Well, I've got a question for you, sir. I can't hear you. Your phone's screwing up. Can you talk directly into it or get it where it'll work? Yes, sir. Can you hear me now?

Yes, sir. That's much better. I apologize. I began my firefighting career, my grandfather got me into it when I was 13 years old. When I got old enough, I chose that career path, and I've been in it ever since. I've been involved in firefighting, EMS, emergency management for a long time now, and unfortunately, that is a career that does not pay very much. My wife and I are in about $83,000 worth of debt, we journeyed down the Ramsey Plan, and we are starting Baby Step 2, and we're starting to snowball stuff. We want to go to the Financial Peace University, but unfortunately, where we are right now, it's just not a possibility.

My question for you is, at what point in time do you step back and look at your career choice and something that you love and say this is not going to be financially possible you give up something that you love a career that you love to have financial peace in the future you can think it was something that you love yeah are you working three your phone's still screwing up are you working 72 on 72 phone's still screwing up. Are you working 72 on, 72 off? No, sir. I work 16 on, 48 off. Oh, okay. So what's your side hustle?

We actually do DoorDash and Amazon Flex. Is that the – because I know a lot of firemen that have really good small businesses that they work in their downtime. Yeah, I thought about i know one guy made 150 grand building decks last year i'm not that handy okay yeah but you have other talent so kenny there is a false narrative that's swirling around in your head that says that you have to give up being a fireman that you love in order to get out of this debt and then beyond the debt have financial peace. I mean, we've talked to thousands of people who have made less than you and have paid off debt.

So you can pay off the debt. But Dave is leaning the right direction here with you, which is what can you do? What talent do you bring to the table that allows you? You don't have to be handy, but what else can you do in that off time to maybe double your income? I don't think that's a pie in the sky idea. What could you do? What pops into your mind? I thought about looking into security work. Great. But you need more ideas. How about five or six different ideas? And you start to go, can I get paid? What can I look at? Would I get paid hourly if you just break that down as a fireman? What could you do in other places where you've got relationships, you've got some skill set and experience you're bringing to the table? Because using that fireman schedule to your

benefit is the better play. I don't think you have to choose to walk away from being a fireman because here's the reality. If you try to go to a different career path, Kenny, there's probably some getting qualified that's involved here. That's time and money. And you said you don't have any money. So I'm looking at a better side hustle and using that time wisely. You and your wife, you can do this.

Yeah, I know you can do this yeah i know you can do it and but it is you know um and the other thing too is it may be that a move towards a more metropolitan area uh the rural fire departments you know they don't pay as much that's correct in a lot of cases not every case but uh fireman in uh that with the kind of experience he's got in uh across the board with ems and everything else emts and everything else he can um he could move into a more populated area and possibly it really increases income yeah now that's a major choice because i'm sure his roots run deep in that community but um but that that's a possibility sometimes you have to do that if you're going to stay in so you know there's different things you can trade off here uh but you don't have to trade off financial peace university we'll give that to you yes we'll put you through and uh you lied you

can't afford it you just didn't want to spend it, but I'll give it to you anyway. I want you to go through, and I want you to go through the nine lessons and get in a group and make sure your spouse is going through it with you and get on a budget. But let's do something that is more lasting. I mean, there's nothing wrong with DoorDash as a short-term game. No. But that's not a 10-year play. No.

Well, when you are intense, gazelle intensity, and you're going to get real familiar with that in Financial Peace University, you have to say, how much time am I spending in the car delivering? And then what am I actually making? Because see, you're not just getting paid to deliver. You also have an expense of gas, maintenance issues. So where can I maximize my time for the most amount of money? Because you will get to a stage very soon. This is a season, not a sentence, Kenny. You're in a season of hustle, and you guys can get through this, and then you'll love getting back into that full-time fireman work.

But right now, skills are simply shovels to just dig, dig, dig, and get out of this. There you go. Go get paid the most you can get paid. That's how that works. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, my co-host today. James and Andrew and Zach and Ben and Austin and Will in the booth with Kelly. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. We'll be back. hey folks ken coleman here did you know the ramsey show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world get your daily dose of advice on life and money check out all of our shows

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