The Ramsey Show - App - What Is Your Unique Contribution to the Workplace? (Hour 1)

Episode Date: April 16, 2020

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Coming to you live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions and broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studio, this is the Dave Ramsey Show. It's where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money. Sitting in for Dave this hour, I'm Ken Coleman, best-selling author of The Proximity Principle, host of The Ken Coleman, best-selling author of The Proximity Principle, host of the Ken Coleman Show, Ramsey personality, and thrilled to be a part of our Ramsey network. 888-825-5225

is the number to jump in. 888-825-5225. Now, here's what we're going to do this hour. We're going to do a version of my show here on the Dave Ramsey Show as we talk about your work, your job, your purpose, because we believe at Ramsey Solutions and our message on the Ken Coleman Show is that every man and woman was created to fill a unique role. that means that you are needed and it means that you must do it because somebody out there needs you to be you. We do not believe that you work to live, to be able to take care of the four walls and then some vacation and then whatever's left over maybe to create some really unique experiences. And then at the end of the day, when it's all said and done, we just hang it up.

That's not what we believe. We believe that you were created to work. You live to work as a workaholic. No, as your contribution to the world. One of the things we hear day in, day out on the Ken Coleman Show is, Ken, I just want to help people. Help me figure out what that work is. Well, that's something that unites us all. We want to make a difference. And so that's what we talk about when we say you were created to work, to contribute. So we look at three indicators. How do you get clear

on what it is? Number one, what do you do best? These are your hard skills, soft skills. Think abilities and qualities. What you do best, this is a task, a function, a role in the workplace that creates high levels of emotion when you think about it and when you're engaged in it. And then you don't want to stop. Time seems to disappear and you really, really love what you're doing to the point that you don't want to stop it. That's high levels of emotion and devotion. And then finally, results that matter most. You think about the work itself that you like to do. Well, that work creates a result. It produces a result. So who are the people you most want to help with your work?

What's that problem that they have? What's the solution to their problem? What you do best, talent. What you love to do most, passion. Results that matter most, mission. You get clear on those three indicators. You can find that unique role in this world, in the marketplace. You're in your sweet spot where it just looks and feels

effortless and it creates maximum output. That's what we talk about. So we want to help you with that this hour. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. And we're going to start with Abel in Texas. Abel, how can I help? Hey, Ken. Thanks for taking my call. So I'm just going to get right to it. So thankfully, I do know what I want to do for a career. And from what I hear, everyone that's had success in this field,

that Nashville is the place to be. So I guess what my question really is, is how am I supposed to get from point A, which is here in Texas, to point B there? Because I do have a family with two kids, my wife, which is a teacher and very supportive of it all. We do have some debt on two cars. And I guess one of the hardest things that makes it for me is that I've always been the primary source of income here in my house. And so I have this provider's mindset that I have to make sure every single duck is in the row before I take a jump. Sure. And I guess another thing that makes it hard is just that our family's here, all here within a 30-mile radius of us.

So that kind of makes it a little bit tougher. But I've just kind of really been struggling with, like, some guidance and, and I guess what road to take or how to get from one point to the other. Yeah. Well, first of all, I want to congratulate you. Your mindset's absolutely spot on. Good for you. We don't ever teach that you just jump and hope that it works out. So you having your ducks in a row, making sure that you have that job in that other state with that company you want to work for before you resign and talk about moving the family with that company you want to work for before you resign and talk about moving the family, that's the way to go about it. I'm going to tell you what I think you should do in a moment, but I'm just curious, is the family that you're talking

about, they would be tough to leave? Are they supportive of you and your wife? Well, yeah, one side is. I mean, the way I was brought up, it's very much, you know, it's like you get a job to take care of your family and whatnot. So the field that I'm in is a little bit unorthodox for what they would consider to be okay. What is that field? I'm a songwriter. Are you supporting yourself right now and the family as a songwriter, or is that kind of like the dream gig and you've got a day job?

That's exactly what I want to do. That's the dream, but right now I'm in insurance. I've been in insurance for like six years. I did music for about four years full-time, but because of some stuff I fell back into insurance. Okay, quick question. You said one side of the family is. I don't want to spend much time on this,

but I think this is really important because this is about mindset that it's going to be, that is necessary. You got to have the right mindset to be able to make a move like this. And if one side, either her parents or your parents, and I don't want to call anybody out, but if one side is not supportive, that's something you're going to have to deal with and overcome. Is that what is the case? Yeah, you know, and we've been pretty good about whenever I did jump in full-time to music about a year ago for that short period, eventually, like, they were really against it, but eventually, because, like I said, I had a great career, but they eventually kind of accepted it, you know? Well, here's why I'm asking the question. If you have one side of the parents, one side of the family's parents are going, hey, we support

you guys, whatever, we'd hate to see you leave, but of the parents, one side of the family's parents are going, hey, we support you guys, whatever. We'd hate to see you leave, but we want you to get after it. That's great. If one side isn't, you have to sit down and your wife can say, look, this stinks, and they love us. That's why they don't want us to leave. But is it our life or is it their life? And your wife's an amazing woman, as you said. She's supportive of you.

I'm actually really encouraged because I think that the fact that you're in insurance, that's a good industry. You've been there for six years. I think you make the move as soon as you can get into an insurance role. How can you move in the industry laterally, if you were, as it were, excuse me, and you can move to Nashville once you get a job in insurance doing some of the same stuff. Can you move within the company? Can you stay within your current national insurance company and just move locations? Here's why.

What that does, Abel, is that takes care of the day job and the stability. So there's no interruption of income. You can keep working Dave's baby steps and pay that debt off. And yet it gets you in proximity to one of the hottest song towns in the world, music towns. I mean, you can do insurance, wait tables, perform gigs all over the place here in the Nashville greater area, and you're going to make all kinds of great connections. And you can write songs and perform and further your career while still taking care of the family. So I think stay in insurance or something similar like that.

You want to go day job to Nashville. That takes care of stability, takes care of the baby steps, going to keep working it. And then I'm right where I need to be. Could be a great provider and still pursue the dream. This thing is not that scary. You got this, Abel. Hey, I expect to see you in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions soon. You say, hey, Ken, we moved the whole family here.

I got a gig in downtown Franklin Tuesday night. You want to come by? And I'm going to say, absolutely, man. And I'm going to bring some friends with me. We're going to support you, Abel. You got this. But don't jump until you have something to jump into. All right, folks, 888-825-5225 is the number.

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This is the Dave Ramsey Show. I'm Ramsey personality and best-selling author of The Proximity Principle, Ken Coleman, host of The Ken Coleman Show on the Ramsey Network. Sitting in for Dave this hour, we're going to talk about your career, your jobs. You've been laid off, you've been furloughed, or you're just at home and you're in this downtime with a little bit more time on your hands working at home and you want to make some progress. You're dealing with some fear. You're dealing with doubt. You're dealing with some pride.

We're here for you. Those are the enemies of progress. And the good news is you can overcome them. And so now is the time. Your one phone call away, I just know somebody listening and watching right now needs some clarity so that you can have some confidence to step forward. By the way, clarity leads to confidence, and confidence will supply the courage when you need it most. I promise. 888-825-5225.

888-825-5225. We go to Florida next where DeeDee joins us. DeeDee, how can I help? Hi, Ken. I have been a newscast director for a number of years, and progressively my job has become more and more semi-automated, and I don't consider myself a director anymore. I'm more of a computer operator, which I don't really like.

Also, I have concerns about where the field of journalism is going, so I don't have as much enthusiasm for my job as I used to. And I'm just wondering where I can take my skill set next. Yeah. I want to focus on that word, wondering. A woman like you who's been successful and and really knows what you enjoy and there was a season where you enjoyed directing i'm guessing yes or no um some parts of it yeah but not all the way through tell me the parts that you enjoyed the parts that i enjoyed was when i

was working on the morning show and we had performance segments where it would be like dancers and singers and cooking segments and decorating segments and things of that. There was a little more free flowing and I got to be more creative in what I was doing. All right. There's a big clue. Now,

what have you wondered about? I know you have allowed your mind to wonder over the years. What would it be like if I did this? If I were to pivot, you know, and I were doing more of that creative work that I did that you just described. And I think you've allowed your head to wonder. And so let me ask you a fun question to kind of pull that wondering out for a moment. If I guaranteed you to give you something else tomorrow where you could really step into that creative side of you and you knew you couldn't fail, DeeDee, but you didn't have to commit to the next 20 years. This is a fun adventure. Ken's given it to me. He's going to

pay me what I need to make. You couldn't fail. No risk. What would you do? I truly have no idea. I disagree. That's for the wondering. I disagree. I disagree. That's where the wondering comes in. I disagree. I disagree. Let's play with this a little bit more. Let's play with this a little bit more. I think you have some certain ideas because you know you have a background where there was a time where you really enjoyed your job and it was creative. So what would you say your top three to five skills are, whether they be hard skills or soft skills? The things that make you the most valuable in the workplace. Give me the top two or three, four that come to your mind.

Gosh. I have a good sense of what is right. I mean, not in that I'm always right, but what's the right thing to do. I think as far as, you know, assessing a situation and not playing over it. What type of situations, be more specific. Well, I just, like if somebody, gosh, it's hard to articulate. If somebody, like at work, when I'm in a very negative workplace and when I hear people getting picked on or put down it's like hey you know you shouldn't say things like that because sometimes those things stick and then the person can't shake them off and you've labeled this

person for a long amount of time. Gotcha. I don't care for situations like that. Okay. So that's what I mean as far as you know trying to do what's right. Yeah. Okay. We know you're very creative, right? Yeah. Okay. What else? I like to think I am. I want you to brag on yourself for just a moment. I'm taking you somewhere, but you got to let me take you. What else? Give me the other top abilities or qualities. So we know you're very creative. You can produce and create things and make them flow well. You've got a good sense of judgment and discernment. What else? Give me one other or two other quick items.

I think I've got a good idea of what's a good design and layout and composition. Interesting. Well, that's very creative as well. All right, now, what's the type of work? Think of a task, a role, a function that you really enjoy. You look forward to it. When you're in the middle of it. Time seems to disappear. You really enjoy it.

What would you say? Two or three. Give me two or three of those. Well, I'm president of my HOA board at my condo, and whenever we do landscaping projects, I tend to get lost in those. I love doing those. Interesting. There's another design creative thing that's popping.

Keep going. Give me two more. I like that. I also love working with animals, horses in particular. Anytime I'm out in a barn or, you know, the kennel or whatever, when I volunteer for those groups, I love doing that as well. Okay. All right. Now let's talk about results for a moment. When you are doing work and the type of work you've just described, what's the result that makes your heart feel good? You're producing this result.

What is it? Well, as far as the landscape goes, it makes things aesthetically nice and people can enjoy it. When I'm working with animals, it makes them comfortable and makes them feel appreciated. And the companionship, the human-animal relationship, something that we enjoyed as well. Let's re-ask the question.

DeeDee, what would you do tomorrow just for fun, knowing that you didn't have to commit to it, I give you the money you need to make, what are you doing? Say it. I, well. No, don't worry about job title. You're worried about the super specific job title. What would you be doing during the day?

Say it. If I could design and work in gardens and a horse farm, animal farm, I would do that. Boom. Now that's a start. Okay. So that's the clarity that you need. You want to be outside animals, farm situation. You know, you like order. You want to be outside animals, farm situation.

You know, you like order. See, all of the clues that you gave me show me that you like creative functions that lead to a sense of order. That's everything from the way the landscape looks to how a TV segment goes that delivers a result that makes people feel good, makes things good. You're about creating beauty. All of that is the overarching desire that we all heard you just walk through. So now the question becomes, based on what you need to make, how can you do what you want to do? I would be looking at horse farms. I would be looking at landscape design companies.

I would be looking at a variety of areas where you can involve your desire to make things look good, act good, do good, all of that, and you bring your creative design and order to the table because that's what you've been doing. As a director, it's just directing new creative ventures now you can get a lot deeper than i am right now but that's where you need to be going and you laid it out for yourself and for the rest of us and folks that's how that works i mean you heard dd wrestle it's tough sometimes to to be vulnerable enough to say this is what i do well and and this is what i enjoy doing, and this is the result that matters. You heard her when I put her on the spot. She said, I don't know what it is. And I think there are a lot of you right now that are listening that feel the same way because you're thinking job title and a salary attached to it when you get hit with that question. What

would you do tomorrow if you knew you couldn't fail? And I think that's a trap. Now, for some of you, you'll be able to answer that question just like that. And it's very clear. For some of you, you need to be able to say, what is the work that if I, if money wasn't even an object, it's just, it's just there. I get to do it. What's the work? What's the task, the function, the role? Hey, here's a one-word exercise for a lot of you that are wrestling with this, like DeeDee. What's a one-word descriptor of the role? Think of a play, think of a movie, a television show. What's the role, one-word role, that you would love to fill during the day and get paid for? Is it teacher, instructor, guide, director, facilitator, counselor, creator? See, this exercise, when you run it through what you do best,

what you love to do most, and the results that matter most to you, your brain will begin to identify what's in your heart. Keep pressing in. Clarity is right there in front of you. DeeDee, thank you for the call. You're so close. Keep pushing into this, and over the next days and weeks ahead, you're going to get a lot of clarity.

Don't move. More of your calls coming up on The Dave Ramsey Show. Guys, I've been saying this over and over. This is the time to capitalize on a down market because you know what else is down? Interest rates. If you have student loans and you still haven't talked to Splash Financial, do it now. The Fed just slashed interest rates, so Splash is getting their customer really low rates. Combine that with not having to pay closing costs. This is the time to get your student loans refinanced. Everyone is asking about the interest rate waiver for federal student loans. First off, it applies only to government loans, not private loans. Also, the waiver is only temporary. So what you need to do next is connect with Splash Financial and

review all your student loans. Guys, stop dabbling here and get it done. There is no money out of pocket and you could save a lot of money. Go online to SplashFinancial.com slash Ramsey and get started to take advantage of these low rates. You are joining the conversation here on the Dave Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, host of the Ken Coleman Show, part of the Ramsey Show, I'm Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, host of the Ken Coleman Show, part of the Ramsey Network, also the number one bestselling author of The Proximity Principle, a proven strategy that will lead to the career you love

where you're taking your job calls, your career calls. We're going to talk to you if you just need a sounding board, you're dealing with some fear, some doubt, the unknown right now, we are here for you. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. Let's go to Josh in New York. Josh, how can I help?

Hi, Ken. How are you? Josh, I'm living the dream. What's happening? Good. dream what's happening good um always an ability to articulate thoroughly uh and listening to you in person uh not in both feet while i'm to you guys on the podcast is much more thorough well thank you um i am in real estate in new york uh with with rentals and I'm looking to possibly use this as an opportunity. You know, these times is an opportunity to visit out of real estate. I really don't love what I'm doing and just wanted to kind of still working the baby steps and I make a lot of good in real estate in New York.

And, um, I'm not sure if I should stick with real estate, something that I know, something that's guaranteed, um, something that's temporary also, um, for the time being, or if I should, you know, pivot from that also, um, kind of, uh, maybe moving, maybe moving to another city where it's a little bit cheaper and more affordable, just given the time. I don't know how to measure these decisions. Okay, great. Well, let's walk through these together, okay? Because I think I hear three things. But let's first figure out where you are on the baby steps.

What baby step are you in? Okay, I have $5,000 in credit card debt, and that's it there. Okay, great. So what is your anticipated payoff date? If we just continue things as they are, no interruptions, when will you pay off the $5,000 and be ready to step into baby step three? At this rate, I'm collecting unemployment but I'll be able to pay off the debt with unemployment which is kind of strange to say out loud

but in two months if I keep collecting unemployment if I go back to work tomorrow I'll be able to pay off the debt tomorrow and you were working you were basically working for a rental property is that what I understood tomorrow. Okay, great. All right. And you were working in, you were basically working in,

working for a rental property. Is that what I understood? I rent apartments, yeah. Okay. So, I mean, I could rent, you know, up to $25,000 worth of apartments next month if we go back to work and business as usual. Okay. Of the scenarios that you gave me, which one are you leaning towards right now? Specifically, you said, do I get out of real estate altogether and do something different? Do I stay in real estate, but get out of rentals and go a different direction within real estate? I think that's what you said. And then the third option is move to a different state. Of those three things you laid out for all of us, which one are you leaning to right now? If you had to make a decision today,

which one would you choose? I love sales, but a 100% commission-based lifestyle is really difficult. Okay. So I would stick in sales, not in real estate. Okay.

But find some company that I love, some mission that I can stand behind. Okay. I don't know, maybe the Dave Ramsey team or, you know, other brands that I appreciate. Is that in? So if you were to move into sales, would that be in New York? You want to stay in that area where you are now, or are you open to moving anywhere in the country? I'm open to moving anywhere in the country.

It would be a conversation with my partner, but she's international, and I think she'd like to see some other part of the country as well. And is she gainfully employed right now? Yes. Okay. Well, I think you gave us the pretty clear choice. You love sales. And I think you also gave yourself a really strong clue, which is for you, you love selling,

but what you want to really do is sell a product or a service that you have a personal connection to. And thank you for the nice comments about Ramsey Solutions, you know, but the reality is, that's an example. You think about companies that are associated with products and services that mean something to you. And a salesperson who believes in the mission of a product or a service is going to be a very successful salesperson. And I think you've identified, too, that you've been successful. You've done straight commission sales, but that's not your ideal. And so now you begin to look for what you want.

This is a great time for you to look for what you want. You have been kicked out of the nest, a nest you don't want to return to. And there's no shame in that. So now let's say, all right, let's talk about the reboot. And you talk, you know, to your partner and you say, okay, I'm looking at the whole United States. Are you good with that? I think you're good with it. Let's get confirmation that she is.

And now we get to say, all right, what are we looking for? What is she looking for? What are you looking for? Because this is a joint operation. And we begin to identify those companies that have the product or service that you could get really excited about selling. And see, this gets back to what you do best. You sell. You're really good at it. You connect with people. You are probably empathetic and compassionate. It brings all that together to sell something and you really, really enjoy sales. But the results that matter most is what's missing right now. You don't want to sell apartments. You want to sell a product or service that the result of that product or service to the

end buyer, the customer, creates change that you get excited about. So this is simply about identifying all the different places that have that product or service you get excited about. And now we look for those and we get after it. 848-825-5225. 888-825-5225. That happens when you host a show right leading into the Dave Ramsey show. You go into your default mode there.

It's 888-825-5225. Let's go to Nancy in California. Nancy, how can I help? Hi, I'm a pharmacist. I have a passion for my career. I love my career, however. And I'm 64. And a few years ago, I was in a supermarket pharmacy, you know, pharmacy in the supermarkets, and they closed down. And now I'm in a private one, and I only work a few days a week.

That one's closing. And this is my problem. I never had to do a resume before, but I did as a couple years ago. And I was told that, and I'm really having trouble. I did do several resumes. But someone told me that the computers will kick out if you don't have certain words. So it's kind of very frustrating. And I only work like one day a week right now.

And I'm trying to get a job as a pharmacist. I did sign up for California Emergency Healthcare Workers. And I've got letters of recommendation from my customers, but I just can't get a job. Okay. How long have you been applying? What's the length of the process so far? About a year and a half. Oh, a year and a half. And I got a job and I've gone to Indian Reservation. Have you just been, Nancy, have you just been submitting resumes wherever there's an opening or have you been trying to

make a personal connection with somebody in that company where you've got a mutual relationship. And so they find out Nancy's been in pharmacy for a long time. She's an absolute rock star. She's got a ton of experience and she doesn't need any training. She can step right in. What has been the process? Okay.

I was going on, can I say Indeed? Sure. And so I was using them. And it's funny how you said that, because the job that I have now is I did have a I did get in through without? Just think for a second. Let your brain rewind. You are a pro. You've been in this game a long time. You know a lot of people. And I actually smiled when you said a moment ago, you said, Ken, I've never had to use a resume. You know why, Nancy, you've never had to use a resume? Because you know people. And that's why I wrote the proximity principle. And you still know people. I want you to change your strategy. So here's what I want you to do.

Hang on the line. Zach's going to get you a copy of my best-selling book, The Proximity Principle. But, Zach, let's also make sure she gets to KenColeman.com and she downloads my resume guide right now. It's going to teach you how to flip your resume. And you're going to have one of the most unique-looking resumes, Nancy, that anybody has, but the resume is worthless without your relationships. You have got to start talking to people who know of openings. They recommend you. That's how you get the gig.

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It's the Dave Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, host of the Ken Coleman Show on the Ramsey Network. And number one bestselling author of The Proximity Principle here, taking your calls about your work, your career, setbacks, fear, doubt, pride. You've been shuffled. You've been disrupted. You are discouraged. We're here for you. I'm telling you,

there is clarity waiting for you. Once you get that clarity, you'll have the confidence to step out on that path to doing what you were created to do. We believe that every man and woman was created to fill a unique role. You were needed. You must do it. And we're talking about through your work. What is your unique contribution? We look at three indicators, what you do best, talent, what you love to do most, passion, results that matter most, mission. Where those three come together, that's your sweet spot. And you can find that unique role in the workplace. Let's help you do that. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. Let's go to John in Tennessee. John, how can I help? Hey, Ken, thank you so much for taking the call. It's a blessing to you guys. It's been a blessing to me for some time now. Thank you. So I am a registered nurse.

I'm currently in my 23rd year. And in 2018, my family and I moved from Kentucky over to East Tennessee. Just the area we came from was kind of a failing economy. You know, I've got a young daughter that just really didn't see how the future was going to go for her there. So we found the opportunity to move in here. We love this area. We've loved this area for a long time. We found the opportunity to move down here.

Now, with that, we felt that it was better for – I'm established at a hospital back in Kentucky, and while we were making the transition to move to East Tennessee, it would have been very difficult for us to make the move as well as change jobs and do all that at the same time. So I stayed in my job in Kentucky and have commuted now for two years. And we're looking at it close to a three-hour commute. Wow.

So with that, I'm in a unique position. I love my job. I love my job. I've got the hospital administration is great. I've got great management. I've got great benefits. I'm not unhappy with my job at all. I am unhappy with the distance that I am from home.

The hospital I work at and the position I am in in the hospital, I take calls. Okay. So the hospital owns a hospital, or I'm sorry, the hospital owns a hotel that they are able to house me in. So I'll go in and I'll take, I'll work six to seven days straight and come home for six to seven days at home. Then I'll complete that stock over again. So it's not like I make the three-hour commute daily. I'm making it once a week. It's wearing you out.

It's wearing me out. Mentally, physically, wearing me out. So what's your question? So my question is, I have looked at multiple positions, multiple jobs here locally where I'm at.

We were looking at close to a $30,000 a year pay difference. But that's based on salary. You take into consider insurance benefits, deductibles, everything combined, the average set in pay would be about $30,000. Okay. So with that being said, my wife and I have really been diligent with our debt. I found you guys not too long ago. What baby step are you on? We're on baby step number two. Currently, we have $25,183 to pay off. We hope to have that taken care of come 2021.

Have you and your wife... Yeah, what is your question? Because I've got a couple of questions. When do I make this switch? When do I come home to work? You make the switch. You make the switch when you can afford to make the switch. Because if I'm understanding what you've just said, right now, take it a $30,000 pay cut. I understand what you're doing. You're putting the benefits and everything in there. But if you just take the net take-home pay, the deficit, by moving in your job right now, it's going to set you way back on paying off your debt. Now, I'm okay with that if you say, okay, by being back home, I've got all these great benefits. I'm not gone for six and seven days at a time. What if I pick up a part-time job in addition to

the full-time job you're going to have for a season, but you're there. You're there with the family, and you're present. You're working a little bit longer, but you're there, and you make up the difference or make up a good portion of it. But I think you and your wife have got to decide what's most important because you can still pay off the debt if you take the pay cut, but I think you have to weigh how that timeline plays itself out and how much longer it would take you. Because I think there's no question you're going to be more

full, whole, more healthy. There's a lot of benefits. But the answer to the question is, I wouldn't make that decision until you and your wife both sat down and said, okay, we still have $25,000 to pay off. What's that new timeline going to look like? And then what are some other things we can do that would offset the $30,000 pay cut? Maybe it's only a $10,000 pay cut. And then we're going to really tighten the belt in some other areas and try to make this a even Steven type situation here. So we're not really trading anything.

That's what I'd like to see. The other thing is I'd like to see you be maybe a little bit more patient to look for something that doesn't require a $30,000 pay cut. You didn't mention that. I want to push you on that. I want to push you because you're doing fine right now, and I understand it's hurting your heart. But I would be looking for more options than just, well, this is getting me back home, but it's a $30,000 pay cut.

I'd be patient to look for something that's better or do what I just said with that first scenario. And I think that is a much smarter way to go about this. Let's go to Michael next, who is in Ohio. Michael, how can I help? Hey, thanks for taking my call. I just had a question. Currently, I'm a software developer.

I've been working at this company, this consulting company, for about three years now. Started out with around 20 employees. Now we're at about 200. And another company, similar format, similar job, everything, reached out to me, and they want me to come on there about at 10 employees, like where I started. But they want to bring me in at having more decisions at, like, a higher level, possibly bring me in at a director level. So I talked to them before, and I turned them down just because I, I really enjoy my, like the people that I work with. My owners have a really good relationship

with everybody, but, uh, I just feel like I might've been passed up on different decisions, uh, with promotions and things like that. But with this new position, I feel like they understand, uh, my value coming in to help grow a smaller company. And when I turned them down the first time, they reached out a couple months later and asked me to pretty much, you know, let them know what I want to do and what position I want to fill in the company. Michael, let me ask you this. We've got about a minute, and I think this is a pretty easy choice.

Does this new offer, this smaller company, pay you more in addition to giving you more influence and an opportunity to grow? Yeah. What's your gut? Before you called me, what's your gut? Well, I haven't really came out of my head in like the last three months since I first started talking to him. Yeah, but if I made you choose right now, without my advice, right now, you've got to choose. Which one would you choose? Stay or go?

Probably the smaller organization. Yeah. So the only other question I have is, first of all, it gives you more influence, gives you greater pay. That's good. Is it still a ladder for you if this thing continues to grow and in this new role, will it make you better with experience, make you better and allow you to continue to be more valuable in the industry you want to be in? Yes or no? Yes. It's a no-brainer. What are you scared of? In one word, what are you scared of,

of taking this new offer? Probably instability. Yeah, because it's a smaller company, it's not as proven. I think you shouldn't worry about that because you have a lot to offer, and I think you could pivot, and I think you do your homework on their financials,

say, hey, what's the health of the company? It's okay for you to assess that, and if you feel good about that, take it and don't look back. Hey, I want to thank our producer, James Childs, call screener Zach Bennett, Dave Ramsey, for letting me sit in. But most importantly, I want to thank you, America. Thank you so much for listening.

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