The Ramsey Show - App - What to Do If You Hate Your Job (Hour 3)

Episode Date: February 22, 2019

The show about you

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions Broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Coming up at the bottom of the hour for the last 30 minutes of this hour, Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, will join us. Ken is an expert on career and helping you get the next job,

helping you get into something that you love, that you're passionate about and good at. And so if you have career questions, job questions, you can call us right now and get in for the second half of the hour. Ken Coleman hosts the Ken Coleman Show every day on Sirius XM Radio and a podcast as well. And so be sure and check him out there and he'll be with us here at the bottom of the hour. So phone number 888-825-5225. Andrew is with us in Kansas City.

Hey, Andrew, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, how's it going? Better than I deserve. How can I help? Oh, not too bad. I was just wondering if I should defer my student loans or not. Why would you? Well, I just graduated and got a job immediately in December, surprisingly, but my fiance is still finishing up school, and I'm also trying to pay off our other debt as well as, you know, pay for our wedding. I don't know if I should defer until she's done or if I should just start paying it now. But with the student loan payments, it would be too much for me to keep paying off their

debt and other loans. Yeah. Okay. Well, what I want you to do is to get out of debt as fast as possible, deferring them. The only reason you would defer them is if you can't pay them and so i don't want to pick up any more debt and i want to pay cash for the wedding and so what you guys need to do is look at your income and what you're going to have to pay for out of the wedding and project out how many months that is and make sure you've got that money set aside and uh you know but as soon as you possibly can start paying on them i want you to

start paying on them so in general the answer would be no i don't want to defer them i want to get them paid off but if you have to for a little while while you're in a transition period here in order to pay cash for your wife's uh that's after you're married you pay for her stuff you don't pay for her stuff before you're married but if you're paying for her tuition and stuff after you're married and you know that pushes out the student loans a little bit rather than taking on more student loans then yeah i would do that i would take the deferral and if you're paying cash for your wedding and that's so forth and it's a modest wedding that kind of thing no i'm not going to defer them and pay $50,000 for a wedding.

But if you're talking about $5,000 or $10,000 or something like that to have a wedding day and pay cash for it, and you have to push student loans a little bit because your incomes are just getting started, then that's all okay. We don't combine finances until we're married. The only thing you can combine is the goal of saving towards the wedding. And it doesn't even have to be in one account then. You can have a wedding account. She can have a wedding account. We're both saving towards it.

But you need to lay the budget out for that and look how many months out and what have we got to do to get there. And then based on that, that'll tell you whether you have to defer or not to be able to pull off some of these basic goals. Open phones here at 888-825-5225. Ariel is with us in San Diego. Hi, Ariel. How are you?

Hi, Dave. I'm good. Thank you. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. How can I help? So I'm 25 and my boyfriend's 27, and we're just starting out, and we're moving. We're finally, we're not going to become turkeys, and we are flying the out um and we're moving we're finally we're not

gonna become turkeys and we are flying the nest um and we are getting our own apartment um but we don't own anything um like not even a bed and we're trying to figure out our priorities okay and uh what can i answer for you um well we're like just trying to get our finances figured out in terms of like, we don't have any debt. I did just graduate college like a year ago now, and I have a job and I'm starting to save for retirement. But since we don't own anything, I've about budget for both of us, like $5,000 to buy some things basic things um but i'm also trying to save for retirement and of course like save up money for eventually a down payment on a house okay well the process that we use uh to be able to move towards your your overall financial well-being is

we start with a thousand dollars saved secondly we. Secondly, we become debt-free. Thirdly, we build an emergency fund. Then fourthly, you would start saving towards a house down payment, and then after you get the house down payment arranged, then we'd start to worry about retirement. That's the order of attack. We call it the baby steps. I will also share with you something you don't want to hear, but I'm going to tell you anyway,

and that is that there's very little data that people that shack up versus being married win with wealth building. There's a high correlation between successful marriages, not roommates, becoming wealthy. And part of the reason is that you cannot pay your roommates bills in any state and recoup it in the event of a divorce there's palimony cases that are extreme but very few of them actually work out and so you you know you you're playing house and legally you have no standing to be able to build wealth together and so it screws up everything so if you were asking uh if you're my 25 year old daughter and you were asking my advice it would be don't live together unless you're married that'd be my advice and there's lots of data that says that's going to take you towards

a better high quality life 20 years from today than playing house and And I know all your friends do it. I know half of America does it, but I don't really care. That's not the issue. The issue is what works. I'm a practical guy, and I've looked at wealth building and research for 30 years, and I've seen tons of studies and tons of things on this and so um uh you are getting the cart before the horse and um you're going to delay your financial well-being by doing that so you'll do what you're going to do and i doubt i'm going to talk him into moving not moving in with you until

you're married but i am bound to tell you the truth because I'm Uncle Dave. Thanks for the call. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money. There is a lot of very interesting studies on that, by the way. I'm just thumbing through. I've got some paperwork laying here on my desk. I'm trying to remember the exact number. But it's like, oh, here it is.

Listen to this. 97% of the people who follow the success sequence avoid poverty. 97%. What is the success sequence? You graduate from high school. You marry before having a child. You have that child after age 20. If you just do that,

97% avoid poverty. Graduate from high school, marry before having the child, and don't have a child before age 20. Ninety-seven percent avoid poverty. See, that's what I'm talking about. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. One question I get asked all the time is, do I need life insurance? Listen, the whole point of life insurance is to replace your income for someone who counts on you. So if you have a spouse or you have kids, yes, you need term life insurance. It's the only way to protect them until you're out of debt and have built up your wealth.

You're only digging a deeper hole if you waste money on cash value plans since it robs you of the ability to make real progress. And that's why I send you to Zander Insurance, and I have for 20 years. That's where I get all my insurance, and they only offer the plans I recommend. It is not expensive. It's not complicated. And Zander will be there as your guide every step of the way. Visit Zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

You need to get this taken care of. I can give you the advice, and I can tell you where to go, but it's really up to you to take that important step to get your family protected. That's Zander.com or 800-356-4282. Thank you for joining us, America. At the bottom of the hour, Ramsey personality Ken Coleman joins us to talk about careers and talk about how to move in the direction of something you have passion about and joy from doing. So many people hate their jobs. It's not necessary. He's going to talk about it and answer your questions.

The phone number here is 888-825-5225. That's coming up in about 15 minutes, so you can jump in now. Parker and Andrea are with us in Amarillo, Texas. It says on my screen, you're debt-free. Congrats. Oh, thank you. Love it. How much have you guys paid off?

$135,000. Wow. How long did this take? Five years. Five years. Five years. All right. And your range of income during that time? Well, it started out just me.

When I graduated college, we were at $35,000. And then within that, got married and combined in our incomes, we got up to $120,000. Wow. What do you all do for a living? I'm an IT. And I teach third grade. Fun. Very cool.

How long have you all been married? Almost four years. Okay. So, Parker, you start this ahead of time getting out of debt. Then you get married, and now you've got a partner to help you attack this, and you guys continue on. What kind of debt was the $135,000? We had $12,000 in a car, and the rest was student loans.

Okay. Knocking it out then. Wow, very cool. How does it feel to not have any payments? Well, man, stress-free. You know, I always say right before we got debt-free, my job was kind of on the rocks, you know, may not be able to survive three rounds of layoffs. And then I took a new job. We're debt-free. the rocks, you know, may not, you know, be able to survive three rounds of layoffs.

And then I took a new job. We're debt-free. We were supposed to come see you last weekend, but we actually had an emergency room trip with our son, and there was no worries about money during any of that. So, I mean, it's just been great. Yeah, it's a whole new way of doing things. So, what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? Live on as little as you can and just uh increase your income it's kind of easy for us you know we live in our college lifestyle and uh we're really living on pennies and then when the money came in we were able to just throw more and more towards our debt now just knock it out. Very cool. How old are you two? I'm 27.

29. I love it. Congratulations. Debt-free and not even 30. Look at you. I love it. Wow, that is so cool. You're going to do so well. Well, we've got a copy of Chris Hogan's book for you, Everyday Millionaires,

which will show you exactly what the next chapter is, and that's to become millionaires. Who was your biggest cheerleader? We were talking about this earlier today, and honestly, I said Parker, my husband, was our biggest cheerleader. I mean, he was just, like, all about it, and he made me, you know, want to be gung-ho about it or gazelle intent, and so he was our biggest cheerleader, I think. Okay, very cool.

Well, congrats, you guys. Parker and Andrea Amarillo, Texas. $135,000 paid off in five years. Four of that while they're married, making $35,000 all the way to now $120,000, and they're not even $30,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Oh, I'm hanging.

Three, two, one, hear a debt-free scream. Oh, I'm hanging. Three, two, one. We're debt-free. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. I love it. Well done. Well done. Well done. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

You jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money. Megan is on Twitter. Dave, we just did our taxes, and though we're getting a sizable sum back, it's mostly due to having paid for part of my husband's school last year, which won't be the case this year. Without that, our refund would have been $500.

Is $500 worth adjusting our holdings for? No. No. What you don't want is more than $1,000 coming as your refund. And, you know, you're going to have some variance. And as you said, last year's issues are not going to show up on this year's taxes. So you're going to have a different thing. So you did the proper thing to recalculate it and figure out so you're gonna have you know you'd have a different thing so you were

probably you did the proper thing to recalculate it and figure out that you're not over withholding but folks when you're getting a three thousand dollar refund that means you've got two hundred and fifty dollars a month too much coming out of your check that's all it means it doesn't mean you did something smart it means you did something dumb you loaned the government money for free no interest and then they sent it back to you in april and you act like i got a check i mean what it was your money it was a bad christmas club account that's all it is and so over withholding creates a refund it's that simple so make sure that in general that your W-2 is adjusted where you've got $500 or so coming or less. And, you know, it would be perfect to have it at zero, right, to have no refund and have to pay no more in.

That means you've calculated your withholding perfectly, which is impossible to do, okay? But you get as close as you can get, in your case you're saying you're within 500 bucks i'm no i wouldn't i wouldn't mess with that i wouldn't fool with that that's close enough but the thing is you don't want this six thousand dollar refund you know that's just means five hundred dollars a month which i don't know where you grew up but in our neighborhood we call that money 500 bucks a a month, that's real. That's a lot. And so you just don't want to be seeing these refunds.

It's that simple. Open phones here. Ken Coleman coming up at the bottom of the hour. If you want to talk about career and your income and where you're headed and so forth, he's the guy. The Ken Coleman Show is on SiriusXM every day and a podcast as well and millions and millions of people already tuning in. You don't want to miss out on this. The phone number here is 888-825-5225. Ryan is in Tampa, Florida. Hey, Ryan, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. I'm going to edit my seat, Dave. It's nice

talking to you. You too. What's up? How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? I have been in business now for six months with my lawn and landscape business, and I was going to ask, at what point within the baby steps and also within an always growing income, because I'm always getting new lawns, do I take a fixed income for myself, and what percentage should that be based on my business income? Well, you want to do a profit and loss statement on your business monthly. And your revenue coming into the business

minus the expenses of operating the business equals your profit. And I always just try to set my salary up to where there's always going to be enough profit to cover the salary and then i just bonus out the difference and so let's just play pretend for a second let's say that every month you are netting three thousand dollars to five thousand dollars well you can set your salary up at $2,000, and you can bonus yourself out anything above that that's profit. Now, inside the business, you're going to want to be saving money for equipment repairs and equipment replacement and some other stuff before we get to that profit number. In other words, you're going to reinvest back into your business, right?

Correct. I want to invest as much as Ivest back into your business, right? Correct. I want to invest as much as I can back into the business. That's my goal. I'll take a small amount for now until I can get the business kind of automated. That's kind of where I'm trying to be. Okay. Automated lawn care? What I mean by automated is me out of the truck and I have crew out on the road.

Oh, okay. So down the road. Oh, okay. Down the road. Okay, I got you. All right, I had visions of a robotic lawnmower there for a second. Okay. No, not crazy like that. Got it, got it.

Okay. So, yeah, in other words, you're going to delegate. You're going to have a cruise running that you're running the cruise rather than you sitting on the mower. Yes, my father has been doing this for 35 years, and he's still on his one of four trucks with his twin brother being in one of the other trucks as well. And I've tried to get him out of his truck for years, and I don't know anything because I'm his son.

So, you know, I'm trying to show him that it's possible. Yeah, it is. It's very possible. And it's learning to work on your business, not just in it, is what you're saying. And there's a wonderful book out by Michael, not just in it, is what you're saying. And there's a wonderful book out by Michael Gerber called The E-Myth. It's an old book, E-Myth. And that's the whole thesis of the book.

It's worth reading to learn to work on your business, not just in it. And when we start something, you have to work in it. But the more you work on it, the more you actually have a business instead of just owning your job. So you're right on track. Coming up next, Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality. You can get in on the phones, 888-825-5225. We're talking career in the last half hour of this hour. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Why in the world would you trust some random guy in a cube when getting your mortgage? Do you really think he cares about your long-term money goals? Well, he doesn't.

Those companies care about getting you into whatever home loan program they're pushing that week. When it comes to ordering a cheeseburger, the meal deal works fine. But let's get real, people. We're talking about the largest investment you'll probably ever make, so don't be naive and trust an order taker who pressures you into a pre-packaged loan. My friends at Churchill Mortgage have been helping my listeners for over 25 years. Call Churchill Mortgage and get custom solutions from an expert within 10 minutes. It's simple. They'll shoot straight with you and quickly show you the real way to save money. Call 888-LOAN-200.

That's 888-LOAN-200 or visit churchillmortgage.com. This is a paid advertisement. NMLS ID 1591. NMLSconsumeraccess.org. Equal housing lender. 761 Old Hickory Boulevard, Redwood, host of the Ken Coleman Show that you can hear every day on Sirius XM and download his podcast as well. People do, millions of them do.

And he's also going to be speaking with me in a few weeks at the Entree Leadership Summit, the end of Aprilil first of may and uh he'll be in the entree leadership master series coming up in the fall as well and uh he's the host of the entree leadership podcast so just kind of busy right now ken that's right we like to wear a lot of hats around here love it yeah that keeps us busy so phone numbers are open. Our phones are open. If you want to talk career this half hour, that's what we're going to talk about. Half of the equation of financial peace is income.

There's income and there's outgo. And income, we always, just about always, see go up when people are telling their debt-free stories. As a matter of fact, I've done three debt-free screams this day on the show, three different hours, and all three of them, their incomes went up. $130 to $190, $70 to $200, $35 to $120. Wow. During that time. And significantly went up.

That's amazing. I mean, lots of new jobs, and sometimes one spouse went to work that wasn't working, and all kinds of different things. So that's where money comes all kinds of different things. So that's where money comes from. That's right. It's amazing. Well, I heard you say in Grand Rapids just the other day, we were together for an entree leadership event and you looked at those leaders and you said, you know, if you help enough people, the money will take care of itself. Yeah. And one of the things we hear from every caller on the Ken Coleman show, when we begin to dive into passion work that brings you great joy is they always start with saying something like well i just want to help people and that's synonymous of all of us we all

desire to matter which means do work that creates benefit for our fellow man and when you say things like that it's so true you know and it's and it's true in our careers not just in leadership in a company when you help people you do what you were created to do, you're going to make enough money, and it's going to be more than you probably dreamed of because you're doing something that you're absolutely passionate about. That's what happens with these folks going on their debt-free journey. They've got a goal in mind. They're going after it, and they see their income increase as a result of that focus. If you're looking for a career change, Ken Coleman's Get Hired Guides are two free resources. I said free. And all you do is just go to KenColeman.com, and you can download them.

They will fix your resume is one, and number two is how to nail your next interview. These are four-color downloadable PDFs, completely free, and really solid information in them. So go to KenColeman.com and download these two resources. They'll help you get hired. Joshua is in Nashville. Joshua, your question for Ken Coleman. Yes, sir. Hey, Mr. Coleman and Mr. Ramsey, I appreciate all that you all do.

Thank you. Yes, sir. I'm currently in transition mode right now. I am working a job that is grant-based, and that grant-based position actually ends this year. So for the past half decade, I have been learning Spanish on and off for about five to six years now. I would consider myself bilingual, but not necessarily fluent. So my question for Mr. Coleman is how do I articulate on my resume to a future employer that I am bilingual but not necessarily fluent in the Spanish language?

Yeah, well, you know, I would not put on a resume that you are bilingual if you're not fluent because I just don't think you can claim that. You know, you need to be able to be fluent. Now, I think I'd rather focus your attention on taking the next step and putting in the extra work. You've been doing it on and off for five to six fluent. Now, I think I'd rather focus your attention on taking the next step and putting in the extra work. You've been doing it on and off for five to six years. You clearly want to use it as an asset, and that is a tremendous asset in this flat global economy. And so I would work on getting to the point where you can say with true integrity that you are fluent. But I wouldn't put it on there if you're not fluent, because you're going to draw attention to something that you have to say, well, I can speak Spanish but not

fluently. And I just don't think it's necessary to call attention to something unless it truly is a value add to that potential employer. Would it be okay to say conversant? Yeah, sure. I mean, exactly what it is. So if you use our template, we put on there what you have to offer. And I would put in there a real true descriptive of how you would say that. Again, I just don't want to raise eyebrows and get you in a situation in an interview where you can say, well, I'm this good, but I'm not fully fluent. But it's okay to be completely, and you should always be completely transparent on how well you actually speak.

I just say I'm conversant. Yeah. And that way, because I can't, I probably couldn't get through a conversation, and he could. That's what I'm thinking. Mm-hmm. If I were working with a Hispanic crew or something. Yeah. He could definitely get us to point A and work through it.

There's no question about it. Yeah, so conversant is different than fluent in my mind. I think that works. Something like that. That's right. Because it is an asset to be able to have. No question. That I don't have. That's if i were you know head to head

with him in a job interview okay cool as a game changer hannah is with us in indianapolis hi hannah how are you um i'm i'm doing okay how are you better than i deserve your question for ken so um i hate my job um but i'm not sure what to do. I spent all this money on a degree that now I'm not interested in the field anymore. It's kind of left a bad taste in my mouth, even if I were to kind of go into something different. My degree is in animal nutritional science, and I'm currently working on a hog farm as a management trainee. I think I want to be a nurse and go back to school for that and I think I've got a plan on how to do it without having to go into more student debt. Why did you study this to start with and then what happened that made you not like it anymore?

So I've always had a love for animals. At first I wanted to be a veterinarian and I had worked in several vet clinics and decided that that just wasn't something that I was really interested in. And so then I decided that I wanted to maybe go into the production end of things. And I worked on my university farm and I loved it. I thought it was great. And so when I graduated, I got a job doing hog farming. And at first it was great. And I think it's more the company, but I absolutely dread going to work in the morning. And from what I understand, you know, the other places that I could go. It's basically the exact same stuff.

It's same circus, just someone else's monkeys, if you think about it that way. Well, I'm going to challenge you. I'm going to challenge you. I think you need to be able to verify that statement. You made a very big blanket statement that every other place that's in the similar type of work is the same circus. And I don't know that I believe that. That's just too broad because here's what I heard. I heard you say that you like the work and you love doing something similar to this when you're working on the college farm.

So that's how you ended up where you are now. What I heard was you're doing the right thing in the wrong place and you've got a bad culture, maybe some poor leadership above you. I think before you decide to completely step out of something that we know for a fact there was a season in your life that you love and you just said it for all of us to hear that if take away the poor culture and the poor leadership would you continue to do it answer that would you if i could fix it just like that i honestly just i i don't know because it has left such a bad taste in my mouth.

It's almost like it's ruined it for me. And I'm sorry, I'm getting kind of emotional because it has kind of, it's just really ruined it for me. And I'm not sure that it's something that I want to do anymore. I got it. But that's natural. It's natural to have those feelings because right now when you go into the workplace and you actually engage in the work the only thing that is connecting to you is the negativity of the culture the leadership whatever has happened but i would really caution you not to just you know check out on something that you have enjoyed in your life before and i would go do

some more research on other places we can do similar work and do some homework and talk to people who work there. Work hard on figuring out, hey, is this a place that's healthy? I think the emotion that you're feeling says that you're not done with this. I think that's exactly right. You're mad at them for having stolen your dream. You have nailed it, Dave. She's hurting. That's the very reason that you should not abandon it.

That's exactly right. You are doing the right thing in the wrong place with the wrong hurting. That's the very reason that you should not abandon it. That's exactly right. You are doing the right thing in the wrong place with the wrong people. That's what I think it is. I agree, Ken. I agree. You're misreading your emotion. You're misreading your reaction to this. The fact that you have a reaction says you're not done with it.

That's right. You care deeply. Did you hear how she lit up when she talked about the college farm? Yep. We can see your face shining through the radio. Ken Coleman joins me this half hour. We're talking career. The phone number

888-825-5225. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day, Psalm 37, 5, commit your way to the Lord, trust in him, and he will do this. George Washington Carver said, start where you are with what you have. Make something of it, and then never be satisfied. Oh, that's good. I like that. Ken Coleman joins me from the Ken Coleman Show, Ramsey Personality, this half hour.

If you want to have a career change, you can download Ken's Get Hired Guides. There are two of them, and they are free resources. One is Fix Your Resume, and two is Nail Your Next Interview. Just go to KenC coleman.com both of those guides are there you can how to write the perfect resume how to win the interview and these are both fabulously done four color pdfs professionally done the content is incredible it's completely free you just can't argue about this. Trevor is with us. Trevor's in Las Vegas. Hey, Trevor, your question for Ken Coleman.

Dave, it's an honor to be on your show. And, Ken, I'm really grateful to be able to talk to you today. Cool. My question is, I've just started listening to you, Ken, and I'm having a tough time finding my sweet spot and really understanding what my passion or love would be. I know from my parents and from my wife things that I'm good at. I just don't know where they can correlate with things that I love to do.

Well, let's run through that real quick. Tell me what your most skillful attributes are. What do you do best? What do your parents, what does your wife say? So my mom finds me to be a great teacher. I can sit down with someone and help them understand something because I'm a visual type learner, so I feel like I can help somebody understand things from a visual aspect,

which I feel more people can grasp or understand that better. Okay. What else? My wife finds me to be very hands-on, which I'm a very hands-on, do-it-yourself type person. She finds me to be a great leader, instructor, detail-oriented. Okay. Anything else on that list? No, I think that's most of it. Let me set your brain up here because there are three basic questions I like to run through with my listeners

when we look at discovering passion, work that brings you joy. There's some extra juice when you look forward to getting into it. When you're in it, time seems to just pass without you realizing it. And when you're done, you feel very, very satisfied. Three basic questions. I don't want you to answer it yet, but I want you to think through them. I'm going to put you on the spot. The first way to look at it is, who do I most want to help?

When you think of people you want to help most, who comes to mind? Then the second way to ask it is, what problem do I most want to solve? Then another way is, what solution do I most want to provide? So who do I most want to help? What problem do I most want to solve? What solution do I most want to provide? When you start thinking about that, what comes to the top of your mind? And I'm going to give you a hint. I think that as a teacher instructor, both those words popped up when you told us what feedback you got from people who know you well, and then you said you were detail-oriented. I'm curious if there's a connection to the work that you love, people you want to help, the problem you want to solve,

being connected to teaching and instructing. So tell me, what comes to mind when I ask you what problem you most want to solve? Well, the first thing that comes to mind is how I dislike being in a classroom setting to be able to be a teacher in that sense. But I didn't ask you that. What fires you up? What problems do you get excited about solving? What do you like to teach? What solution do you like to teach? What solution do you like to provide?

I love working on my house and renovating our house. I've done many, many renovations, and I've got a master's in YouTube that has taught me a lot. All right, so let me ask you this. If I snap my fingers right now and I give you the amount of money that you need to make and you are working with your hands, you're solving problems, detail-oriented, and you're hands-on, working with your hands, getting stuff done, whether it be for somebody else doing renovations or something with your hands, how would that feel? It would be great. Okay, so I'm not sure that teacher-instructor is the way to go.

You don't want to be in a classroom. So if you're teaching, instructing, maybe it's one day teaching your craft. If you're a carpenter, if you're an electrician, a plumber, what would you do with your hands all day long? If I was going to say, all right, for one week, Trevor, I'm going to pay you good money, and you get to go do this for one week using your hands, fixing something, what would you fix? Something inside. Las Vegas is hot, and I like working with wood. Okay, now we're getting somewhere. I wouldn't call myself a carpenter, but hearing you talk with other listeners about how they can get lost hours in it,

I feel like I can get lost hours working with wood. Okay, so here's your homework assignment. I want you to spend the next two, three days listing out on a piece of paper all the different ways that you can work with your hands and wood, whether it be cabinet making, whether it be learning the trade of carpentry. Are you a trim specialist? I don't know, but you've got to start to identify things

that you can use your talent to do where you would feel like, hey, I'm lost in this work because A, I enjoy it and B, I'm pretty good at it and I know that if I have some basic skill, I can hone that skill to be excellent. That'll take him there. It really will. You've got to try some things in that area.

Jessica is in Kansas City. your question for ken coleman jessica hi ken day thanks for taking my call um my question is in regards to um i'm currently a veterinarian for a pet pharmaceutical company and we're pretty small right now um my current job is doing mostly consultations with other veterinarians and I'd really like to go into our pharmacovigilance side which is more looking at potential adverse reactions that happen with products but our company is so small right now that type of position is not available. My question is whether I should stick with the company in hopes that there will be a position that opens up or develops in the future

if I should start looking at other companies in which they already have this department. Yeah, I want you to practice the proximity principle, which says in order to do what you want to do, which is I'm going to call it testing, the adverse reactions of products or these medicines for animals, you want to get around people that are doing that. And you want to get in places where that's happening. So you want to put yourself intentionally around people that are doing that and ask them questions. What was the path like?

What's a day-to-day like? What's the pecking order? You've got to ask everything about what they know because they are where you want to be. So you stay in your current company because your current company is stability. It's the platform by which we want you to step off into the work you were created to do. But you've got some research to do.

And the proximity principle is all about getting around people that are doing what you want to do and in places where what you want to do is happening. So for instance, what are some local veterinary places that are doing that work? Because if you sit around and wait for that to develop in this small veterinary situation, it may never develop. And so you need to begin looking actively now for the places that are doing and offering what you want to do. And when you do that, here's what's going to happen. You're going to have the opportunity to learn about the path to get there. You're going to have the opportunity at some point to do the work if you actually stay with this and get hired. And then as you get into it, you can move up the ladder because now you're connecting. So proximity is about learning, doing,

and connecting. And that's what you need to do right now because it's out there. Jessica, are you qualified to take the role that you're talking about if one presented itself today? Yes. I mean, I don't have tons of experience with it, but I definitely qualify. I mean, you could make a case, hire me today to move into your company and participate with your testing crew, join the testing team. You could make a case to do that. So if you could find the position, there's no reason to not just go ahead and make that move is it no as long as she finds it and gets it absolutely we want to see her step right into that yeah so if you can do that in in um in

your area and make a move otherwise you've got to take the steps that ken is talking about and that's to get near the whole idea well you're not going to get there sitting where she is. No, and that proximity principle that I described allows her to start to make those connections out there. And then that's how we get interviews. Not by submitting resumes. Oh, okay. But making the connections and talking to people. Oh, you can do this? We might have an opening at our place.

Yeah, okay. Perfect. Yeah. Ken Coleman, The Ken Coleman Show. You can email him at ask at kencoleman.com. Thanks for stopping by. Thanks for having me, Dave. That puts this hour of The Dave Ramsey Show in the books.

We will be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer and phone screener for The Dave Ramsey Show. If you would like to do your debt-free scream live on the show, make sure you visit DaveRamsey.com slash show and register. We would love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story.