The Ramsey Show - App - What Will Your Wake Up Call Be? (Hour 1)

Episode Date: December 3, 2019

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. Hi, I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us, America. We're glad you're here.

Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Merry Christmas, America. We're so glad you're with us. Maggie is starting this hour off in Florida. Hi, Maggie. How are you? Hi, Dave.

Hi, what's up? How are you? Okay, well, I have a question for you. We are in the process of buying a business, and we already have a preapproval from the bank, but we haven't been able to come down to agreement with the owner as far as the terms, and we have a letter of intent. But basically what they want is earnest money with the cost of not being refundable. We can't get a loan, but the bank has given us a preapproval, but we can't just give $ intent while we get the 100% guarantee that we're getting the loan,

and it starts due diligence. But they also have another bidder, so I don't know if that will be something smart for us to do or not. Okay. Well, there's two or three things that help anyone in a negotiation. One is he with the most information wins. Two is he with the most patience wins. And three, he with other options wins. They have other options, at least they want you to think they do. And you are desperately trying to please someone in order to give them

a pile of money right you're you're i can just tell by talking to you you're you're in a weakened emotional state in this negotiation so um what i would propose is is that a $25,000 earnest money that is refundable on the term sheet based on the contingency of financing is a normal deal. If you guys don't want to go to contract on that, then go with your other buyer. Would you get into the non-exclusivity? No. I'm not giving somebody twenty five thousand dollars and screw around and get me on use my contract my offer to go get somebody else up and get the other deal done

they're going to use your deal to shop it and get the price up it's exactly what they're doing so who is? Where'd you find this business to buy? In Bid for Sale. Well, I know. How'd you find it? Well, just shopping. What kind of business is it? It's a driving school. A driving school.

And what is the net profits on this driving school in a year? Around $200,000, $250,000. Net profit? Well, that's without the owner being paid. Like from there we would, you know, take our salary. Okay. So if I were to operate it from Tennessee and I paid people salaries to run the thing, what would be my net profit if I were an absentee investor?

You mean they made $250,000 profit? Really? Well, that's what the P&L says. Have you seen tax returns? Yes, we have the tax returns. Okay, you understand I'm not talking about gross revenues. I'm talking about profit. Well, the earnings before taxes and depreciation is around $250,000 to $300,000 a year.

Okay. Without the owner being paid. Without anybody being paid. But the owner actually works there, right? But not the owner. The owner actually works there. No. They don't? No, he's an absentee.

Okay. All right. So what are you offering to pay for this business? $850,000. Okay. It's a reasonable price if it's truly netting $250,000. And all the salaries have been paid to operate the business by an absentee owner. Okay.

So it's not an unreasonable price. And $25,000 is not an unusual earnest money. And you're borrowing money to buy this business? Yes. Okay. How much are you borrowing? 90%. Okay. How much are you borrowing? 90%. Okay. Well, you do what you want. I wouldn't buy the business. I wouldn't go into that far into debt to buy a driving school. I wouldn't go that far into debt to buy anything. I think that's a mistake. But as far as the actual question you

asked me, I would tell them to accept the deals on the term sheet. That's what a letter of intent is. It's a term sheet. It lays out the terms of the deal. The terms of the deal were contingent upon your financing, and the contract needs to read that it's contingent upon your financing, and I wouldn't put up earnest money otherwise. And I would not take it with them having a non-exclusive,

or you having a non-exclusive and them having the right to shop your deal and try to get more money if they're so hoppy tell them to jump you need walk away power kiddo you've been sucked into this and you it's like you're dying to own it i'm not dying to own it nothing i heard here just really flips my lid it's a decent price but the rest of it is yeah you know, I can duplicate what they're doing. I can go buy some cars and hire some driving trainers and start up in a parking lot tomorrow, and I can probably do it cheaper than $800,000 and steal their customers. So I will get their customers by better pricing and better service because I think these people can be beat in that category. So you do what you want to do.

I'm not doing that deal. I'm not doing that deal based on the debt, and I'm sure as crud not putting up earnest money on a deal, on a contract that's different than the original term sheet, the original letter of intent was. This is basic business acumen here. Hey, thanks for the call. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Michaela is in Nevada.

Hi, Michaela. How are you? Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I'm so excited to talk to you.

I'm sorry. No trouble. Me too. How can I help? So I'm 22. I am currently on Baby Step 2. I started in August, and I had roughly about a $7,000 credit card, um, $4,500 in student loans and a $20,000 car. So I paid off, I'm at $2,500 left on my credit card. So I've paid off,

you know, the remaining of the 7,000. And then I'm planning on moving on to my student loan. I should have that paid off in roughly about February. And then I want to move on to my car. My question is, I'm about $5,000 upside down in this car. You know, my first plan is to pay it off by next December and then I have a fully paid off car. Cool. The thing that's troubling me is I really want to buy a house. And, you know, being 22 in Vegas, it's a really good market.

I could save up the money that, you know, I would be spending on my car all of next year. What is your income? I make like $45,000 before taxes. So I bring home roughly like $680 a week. Yeah. It's up to you. I don't know how you're doing that. You're paying that car off pretty aggressively to do it by December,

and you're living on nothing, making 45 grand, paying off 20 grand by December. If you want to pull that off and keep that car, that's fine with me. If you want a downgrading car and that accelerates your process to buying a house, that's fine. But there's no rush to buying a house. You're okay. You're 22. You're going to get there.

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We're glad you're with us. Christmas will be here before you know it. We are right in the middle of the giving season. Outrageous generosity time, baby. And sometimes the smallest gift or act of kindness can make a huge impact on your friends your family generosity really does have a way of spreading of going viral i wrote a blog about this called the generosity effect kind of like the butterfly effect when a butterfly flaps its wings 5,000 miles away, a hurricane starts two years later.

You know what I'm talking about. And the same thing is true with generosity. Sometimes you give away $20, and it turns into millions of dollars being given away over time. You just never know because when you help somebody at just the right moment, when you're generous at just the right moment, it changes everything. You ought to read this blog. Over a million and a half people have already read it. Just go to DaveRamsey.com and you can read it.

And we've been getting stories from people who have been the recipient of generosity or the giver of the generosity, which, by the way, you receive when you give. That's how that works, right? And so we decided if you want to tell your generosity story, you've got two ways to do that. We're featuring some generosity stories throughout the weeks here during the Christmasmas season and then we're going to load the whole show full we always do a generosity show a whole day of generosity stories on the show on uh december the 20th and so if you want to be in either one of those email me at dave on air put generosity in the subject line and we will include you in the discussion.

James and Ava are going to tell us their generosity story from Oklahoma. Hey, guys, how are you? Hey, Dave. Hey, Dave. So, guys, tell me your story. What happened? Well, we live in Moore, Oklahoma, which, we just had a tornado back in 2013. Yes, you did.

We lost our home in 2013 to the tornado that came through. Luckily, our family and everyone was fine, but we experienced just an outpouring of generosity from family and friends during that time. So our daughter was in Plaza Towers Elementary School when the tornado hit, which seven children died in that tornado on that day. Thankfully, our daughter was not one of them. So during that time, during a tornado, um, you know, cell phones are jammed, you can't get through nothing like that. So we had no idea of knowing, uh, all we heard was that, you know, Plaza towers was a direct hit. And, uh, we knew that we lived

on the same street. So we were pretty much convinced that, you know, everything we knew what we were going home to. Um, but we had no way most important for me as a mom um i you know i i was trying to think of you know i knew she was in the school i knew no one picked her up um she was seven at the time and uh and so you know trying to find her trying to get to her um all i could think of was um you know what know, what, what did I, uh, what did, what did we talk about that morning? Did I tell her I loved her? Did, what was she wearing?

If for God forbid, I'm asked to, you know, do the unthinkable as a parent. And I, I couldn't, I couldn't think, I couldn't think anything. So I just prayed. And, um, uh, on our way home, on my way home, I was stuck on the highway for over an hour. I got just a quick text from a family friend that was like, we've got her, is the only text that I got. And they had left their home probably at least five to ten miles away, walked into our neighborhood over a mile from the street to get to the school to make sure that she was there and safe and just gave us that peace of mind until we could get there that she was okay. Wow. So, Dave, those people coming just without being asked just knew where our daughter was

to come and have that peace of mind to go check on her and let us know that she was okay um obviously felt a relief but then uh we had to deal with the aftermath of all that like how are we gonna uh it turns out our house was totaled to the ground the whole block was and it was really just surreal and no one was home or whoever was there would have been killed yeah because i mean i'm looking at the pictures you guys sent and they're on youtube and there's nothing left i mean it's like bare bones it's gone right correct yeah that's right i mean there's no hiding in the bathtub in that picture no no no not in that one actually our safe spot was our staircase uh

that was kind of a little cubby under our stairs and our stairs was in the field probably i don't know half mile behind our house or more wow so yeah um but but then they during the recovery and and we what we found out is that we had to clean up our own lot and get everything to the curb. And the amount of people that came in, our lot was full of people, just almost nowhere to stand, moving stuff. One of our good friends, Nicole Hughes, turned her business, her office, into a hub of contributions and things so that she could help whoever she could and mainly us and really went out of their way and not only that but bought dinner for everybody that day after I mean 15 20 30 people and bought dinner for everybody that evening and really just changed the way that we want to

give and then help people and so our eyes have way that we want to give and help people. And so our eyes have been opened. We look for ways to help people wherever we can and sometimes go out of our way. And it's the best whenever we don't, when they don't know it was us. Yeah, you'll spend the rest of your life trying to catch up on all the people that helped you, right? Amen. Yes, sir. Wow. Absolutely amazing. There is something about an extreme situation like that, a violent situation like that,

that activates even the most hard-hearted person to be generous. Suddenly people who normally don't give anything show up and start moving boards you know yeah and it just it it activates the most the most practical the most utilitarian person and turns them into a generosity puddle and uh you can tell that uh in areas like that where people just turn up and um you know there, it is wonderful when there's federal aid or federal whatever to come along after a disaster has come through. But what is even more wonderful is to watch the entire community rally around and clean up. I mean, we had this historic flood in Nashville about a decade ago.

And, I mean, places that, I mean, we were worried about Noah's Ark floating by. I mean, it was high. It was ridiculous. And it was like the same kind of effect Moore had with that legendary tornado. I mean, hundreds and hundreds of families just lost everything. But the way the community turned out and cleaned up and helped people move in and move out and do things, it was it was history very quickly. It was amazing how quickly things turned around because people just the outpouring of volunteerism as a part of generosity, that kind of thing.

So that kind of deal would that's the way to go. I mean, it's pretty incredible what a great story you guys what a great story yeah we're excited we we're excited we we get a lot of flack sometimes because we rebuilt on the same on the same lot you know from our friends like are you kidding but we hey the chances of twice zero that's what i say i love rebuilding on that lot i'm thinking i think that lot's already had its shot, you know? I think so. I'm with you on that.

That's why I tell them I said it stood 30 years before. Yeah. Well, my favorite part of the story is the people who understood that your heart was in your throat and went and found your baby. I mean. Yes, and that's their names. It's the Kuyperper family and they're just very special people still to this day they still come and different kind of generosity though to think that way that's not giving of your time or your money that's thinking about what someone else is

worrying about and going and taking care of their problem I mean that's that's a cool that's a cool story cool part of this story thanks for sharing that you guys we sharing it. I'm glad you're getting your lives back together. I'm glad everybody was okay. I'm glad you got the new place built. Life is good. Wow. Outrageous generosity. We teach you around here to live like no one else

so that later you can live and give and give and give like no one else. Merry Christmas. For over 20 years, I've recommended Zander Insurance and their term life programs. I'm still amazed at how many families have no life insurance or not enough and would be financially devastated if a spouse or parent died. It's inexcusable since the cost of term life is just plain cheap. And Zander really has figured out a way to make it simple and straightforward. They only sell the plans I recommend and their system is built to your needs. You pick your path.

If you want to work online, you can compare all the companies and handle everything over the web, even signing up and getting your policy electronically. If you have questions or you need that personal touch, well, they're there to help. It's all about serving you like no one else so you get the protection you need. There really is no excuse not to get this done. Call 800-356-4282 or go to zander.com. You pick the path to getting your family protected. Haley's on the line in Charlotte, North Carolina, debt-free. Way to go, Haley! Hi, Dave. Thank you. Very cool. How much did you pay off? Paid off $35,640.15 in 29 months. Good for you. And your income range during that two and a half years? I started out

at $75,000 and I ended at $90,000. Good for you. What do you do for a living? I am a project manager. Very good. Yeah. Great job. Very cool. What kind of debt was the $36,000? I had about $3,500 on a student loan, two credit cards totaling about $20,000 and a car right around $12,000. Wow. Very good. Yes. So what happened to you 29 months ago that got you this fired up? Dave, I had a squirrel scare. Okay. I was out of town on work and I had a friend staying at my house to watch my dogs. And she told me that she heard something in the attic. And I called some exterminators and described what she had heard and when she had heard it. And they said, this sounds like gray squirrels. And if it is, it's going to be anywhere from $2,000 to $15,000 to

fix this, depending on how bad it is. And they haven't even been there yet? Yeah, they hadn't been there just, you know, based on the time of day that she was hearing the noise and everything. Yeah, right. Yeah. So I had an exterminator come out and examine my house and luckily it was nothing um she must have heard something on the roof but it was a wake-up call that i needed to get my act together for sure for sure so if you had had a squirrel emergency you weren't ready i was not ready and that woke you up. Okay, I'm loving this. That's great. So what happened then? So I talked to my sister about the situation and she told me, you should listen to this guy named Dave Ramsey. So I binged your podcast for about six hours.

And over the course of those six hours, I tried to prove you wrong about a billion times, and it didn't work. You proved me wrong every single time. And I just decided, you know what? What I've been doing hasn't been working. I'm going to give this a shot. And so I just dove in, and here I am 29 months later. Wow.

How does it feel? Amazing. Amazing. It was scary to embark on this journey. I started out, you know, single, and the idea of going to beans and rice and not having a life and making all these sacrifices did not sound appealing in the beginning, but I knew I had to do something to get my finances on track.

So I did, and I got my friend who thought she heard squirrels on board, and so we still had fun along the way and did free things. But yeah, now I'm out of debt, and life is good. Wow. Way to go. Congratulations. What do you tell people the number one key to getting out of debt is? I think the key is finding a plan that works for you. I had been living above my means for years, and I had $20,000 of debt and credit cards to show for it. I had also been trying to get out of debt for years, and I still had $20,000 of debt to show for it. So what I was doing was not working, and I just needed a plan that was going to force me to change my behaviors and at the same time show me those quick wins in the beginning so that i would stick with it and

follow through and that's exactly what this did and i wouldn't change a thing very cool hey we're proud of you well done hero thank you great job we We got a copy of Chris Hogan's book for you, Everyday Millionaires. That's the next chapter in your story for sure. All right. Haley in Charlotte, North Carolina, $36,000 paid off in 29 months, making $75,000 to $90,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one.

I'm debt-free. Yeah. Yeah. Scream! Three, two, one. I'm dead free! Yeah! That's how it's done! Love it, love it, love it. Very cool. Very good job. Alexis is in Indiana. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show, Alexis.

Hi, how are you doing today, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up? So I got married in September, and my husband and I realized we have a mound of debt that I'm not prepared to embark on. He is pretty much fine with it, and I am not. So I asked him to buy me FPU for Christmas. And looking through things today, we have in total $67,605 in debt, which includes student loans, two cars, a ring, and two credit cards. I'm currently in graduate school for school counseling,

but I'm wondering if I should leave my job that's in the education field to go and make more money doing something not related to my future career. Are you currently a school counselor? No. I work as an advisor for a public school um but i don't make that much money what do you make as compared to what i could be i make their 34 000 what does your husband make he makes about 47 5 and he is up for a promotion as soon as a position becomes available. When will you graduate from your master's program? I will graduate in May of 2022. Whoa, ways out there.

Yes. So between now and then, if you worked making more money and then shifted back to your career field after your graduation what would be wrong with that um my husband's concern is that it might just not look good um i just started this job um in august and i don't look good because it was an education won't look good to who? To employers if I change jobs again. I don't think employers give a rip. Okay. That's what I thought.

I mean, the days of you needing to be on a job for 30 years to be considered stable are over. People just don't stay on jobs that long. Yeah. Not today. So I don't think that's a concern. If you did something different, what could you do and what would you make? Well, I left my job as a social worker to come to this job. At that, I made almost $41,000. So I could go back to that or something to that effect. I've been looking to try to get an emergency license.

If a position comes available, I would take that, definitely. Yeah, a $10,000 increase in income? Yes. Yeah, I would do that. And then you can definitely go back and be a school counselor with your master's degree in that, or you may take that master's degree and do something else with it even by the time you finish in 2022.

A lot of different things could happen. And then the two of you roll up your sleeves. Are you both going to Financial Peace University together after Christmas? That's the plan. I told him that if he was getting it for me for Christmas, he had to go. Yeah, that's the biggest part of the gift because you can't go by yourself. If you go by yourself, all I'm going to do is teach you to be pissed off at your husband for not doing this stuff. Yeah.

I'm going to make you unhappy newlyweds, and I do not want to do that. I know that he would get on board if he went. I do, too. I'm hoping that this class will do it. And I know it will drive a wedge between you if you go and he doesn't. So he has to go with you. Okay. Okay.

And then you guys will go do this because you're going to be making $80,000 a year. And how quick can you clean up $67,000? Two years. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, you'll be out of debt. And so before you finish your master's, you'll be done with your debt. Way to go. Awesome.

That's exactly the plan. You're doing it. Very, very very very cool this is how you do it i love it i wish it wasn't so oriented to the quality of your relationships but your ability to play well with others, especially your spouse, is a major data point in the research that shows what is included in people becoming wealthy. In other words, almost no one drags a princess or a prince along and goes and gets wealthy in spite of their spouse. It almost never happens statistically. There's a high correlation between a high-quality relationship and husband and wife working as a team to accomplish their goals.

This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you. Jessica is in Indiana. Merry Christmas, Jessica. How can I help? Oh, I am. I started listening to you at work because I have headphones, and I thought I was doing everything right and apparently I'm not so I was told to get credit cards to build your credit to buy a house so that's what I did I got credit cards I got a car payment I just recently bought a house. Well, I didn't buy it. Obviously, I got a loan for it. And I just don't know how to start.

I've heard of you before from the church I grew up in, but I never really, you know, paid attention because I was younger. And when I found you on podcast, I was like, well, I'll see what this is. And now I'm like, well like well crap i don't know where to start because i screwed it all up oh you're all right you're just normal the only problem is normal is not working right no it's like i pay a little bit on a credit card and then i i use it again it's like you got sucked into someone else's plan for making them rich, not you. Yeah, and, you know, I thought I was doing everything right.

My parents didn't have credit cards. They didn't have good credit. They never bought a house. So I was like, I'm doing pretty good for myself. And I'm a mom of five. And then I heard the whole, just get married. Well, we didn't get married because he has bad credit. And they were like like if you get married

we'll base it off of his credit as well and then you can't buy a home so then i came home and i was like we're doing it wrong we can get married your credit doesn't matter so now we're planning on getting married and everything but it's like all those like we've been together for six years that's wonderful well good okay so the point is if we were going the wrong if you're driving along the interstate and you realize you're heading the wrong direction what do you do you get off the exit you turn left onto the bridge you turn left onto the other exit ramp and you get up on the ramp heading the right direction and that's exactly what you're doing well congratulations that's

awesome thank you okay and so now now you've got a house you've got a husband you have five kids or you're about to have a husband and uh we're we're you know and so we're on our way let's just work these baby steps and get you guys out of debt so that you can become wealthy is that okay that's what i'm trying to do there you go So you have credit card debt and you have a car loan. I have. What else do you guys have? A mortgage. Yeah, a mortgage, and that's really it.

Like, I hear everybody else, and I'm like, okay, well, I'm not, I don't, like, I went to nurse, I was starting nursing school, and since I wasn't married, obviously, I got one of those loans. Pell Grant. Or you don't pay it back. Pell Grant. Yeah, I got Pell Grant. Yeah. So how much credit card debt do you have? About $10,000.

How much do you owe in your car? About $10,000. Does 000 does your husband to be have debt he has um like medical debt how much that he it's like all together maybe six thousand it's like the four dollars and that's his bad debt that's his bad credit well his bad debt? That's his bad credit? Well, his bad credit was from his, he had a car and he was leaving for the military. So he returned it and they didn't want to take it back. So they just kept charging him. But his mom co-signed for it. So it's on his mom, which he's paying her back.

So yeah, that would count. Yeah, so does she have the car, or was the car voluntarily repoed finally? He drove it up there. Yeah, you don't have that. You can't do that. You can't just drive it up there and leave it. It's not a rental car. So he got his butt sued is what happened.

Okay, so you need to find out what he owes on this stupid car so his poor mama doesn't have to pay it. So what does he make a year and what do you make a year? I make about $45 a year and he makes about $35 a year. Okay. So when we're married, we had a $75,000 household income. His new wife has $20,000 in debt. He has $6,000 in medical and an unknown amount on a bad car deal. Right?

Mm-hmm. So what we're going to do is take all of these debts, and we're going to list them smallest to largest. We're going to pay minimum payments on everything but the little one, and we're going to attack the smallest debt, which is probably one of those little medical debts, might be a small credit card, with a vengeance. When it's gone, you attack the next one down.

When that's gone, you attack the next one down. When that's gone, you attack the next one down. When that's gone, you attack the next one down, and so on until they're all gone. Now, when you don't have any payments but the house payment then, then you move on to what we call baby step three, and you build an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. With a $75,000 household income, you should pay off $26,000, which is what you guys have, not counting the car mess, which we don't know what it is, in one year, even with five kids. But that means you're living on beans and rice, rice and beans, and you're going to quit going out to eat you're not going on vacation you're going to clean up your childish mess and when you get that done you'll deal with this car deal and you got to get mama out of this car deal because bless her heart she got messed over by her son who just walked away from a co-signed

loan so we got to go back and straighten that mess up and then we're debt free then we build an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses and you'll be right on track got to go back and straighten that mess up, and then we're debt-free. Then we build an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses, and you'll be right on track. Way to go. Welcome to the new tribe. It's a whole different way of living. And when you have no payments, kiddo, wow. Changes everything.

Ian is with us in Florida. Hi, Ian. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas, the Dave Ramsey Show Merry Christmas Merry Christmas Mr. Ramsey, how are you doing? Better than I deserve sir, how can I help? Alright So I'm 28, I'm finally going to college

I put it off because, I'm not going to lie I was kind of worried about it because I saw a lot of people Going out of college with degrees And we all know how that was going on But I found a good career path You know, makes good money. I'm just asking for maybe some advice. So what are you going to study?

Merchant Marine Engineering. Merchant Marine Engineering. Okay. Yeah. Is this a four-year degree or a two-year degree or a certification? You're breaking up, sir. I'm so sorry. It's a four-year degree or a certification? You're breaking up, sir. I'm so sorry. It's a four-year degree with the appropriate certifications

to work on big boats as an engineer. Yeah. Wow. And what kind of pay does that career generate? According to what I've seen and from what I've asked other merchant marine engineers, $76,000 to start. And then, of course, as you move through your licenses and you do bigger and better things, you can make up to about, I've seen, as much as $136,000 a year.

Cool. And where are you going to study this curriculum? It's going to be in Michigan, actually right in Traverse City, so it's going to be right on the lake. And the school's really good about hooking you up with, you get these programs where you go to study with some of the companies that are on the lake, so you get some really good practical experience. Is this out-of-state tuition, or is this just like a trade school thing? Kind of both. So there are some gen ed classes because the academy I'm going to does pair up with an actual college. But when you go through the price list for what costs what,

even though I would be paying out-of-state tuition on the gen ed classes, at the end of a four-year degree, the difference between being in-state and being out-of-state would be like $2,000. Okay, so what will this cost and how are you going to pay for it? Well, from what I'm looking at, it's probably going to cost about $60,000 to $70,000. I'm completely done with it. I was looking, honestly, to just work as hard as I could, try to get as much of it paid off living in school. The first year is probably the one that I'm most worried about

because it's going to be the most expensive, but it all kind of papers off after that first year just because the first year has got a lot of... And how are you going to pay for it? I've got about $7,000 I'm going to save. I've taken out the Pell Grants and the federal loans. There's about an $8,000 difference. That's why I was coming to you to ask you,

what would you do in my situation? I would not take out federal loans. I don't ever tell people to borrow money ever for anything especially for education and so i think we've got to look at a different school or we've got to look at a way we can create more income while we're in school or before you go to school so that you pay cash pell grants are fine but federal student loans are not fine. And I would make up that difference and I'd have a different budget game plan

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