The Ramsey Show - App - What’s the Best Way To Increase My Income? (Hour 3)

Episode Date: September 7, 2023

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, amazing relationships. Thanks for joining us, America. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author of the book Pay to purpose is my co-host he hosts also the ken

coleman show on series 6m as a podcast here on the ramsey networks and uh very popular answering your questions about jobs and work and career and uh you can find him every day doing that and of course be sure and check in with us here today he'll help you too the phone number 888-825-5225 alex is in cleveland ohio hi alex how are you i'm great thanks for taking my call sure what's up i'm trying to prioritize my money between my mortgage saving for retirement and replacing my car after all my budget expenses are covered. So if I put everything extra towards the house, I could pay it off in six years, which sounds great, but my parents prioritized paying off their house

before retirement, so now they don't really have retirement. Okay. How old are you? I'm 33. Okay. So if you did that, you'd be 39 years old. Exactly. So mathematically, you would not be your parents. Good point. Because you definitely could save a lot for retirement if you had no house payment between now and retirement, between 39 and 65, right? That's a good point. Okay. Yeah.

So your parents, the fear that came from your parents situation is not valid in your case however i'm still not going to tell you to do that but i just think it's good to work out the math for a second now um so you're out of debt everything but the house right correct and you have an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses set aside, correct? Right. I have $15,000. Good. Okay.

Then you're at what we call baby step four. Baby step four is, say, 15% of your income, no more, into retirement. If you have no payments but a house payment, 15% of your income going into retirement should leave you some money in your budget. No, it leaves about $500 if I i do that what's your household income 77 000 pre-tax post-tax and ends up being about 57 and how much is your house payment it is let's see i wrote that down where did it go um 1330 okay how are you paying off your house in six years if you save nothing i don't hear that in these numbers i have an extra 1300 each month oh i thought you said you had an extra 500500 each month. That would be if I put into retirement.

Oh, I see. So if you put $800 into retirement, you'd have $500 to go towards the car. Okay. And so what's your current car worth? Roughly $6,000 because it's a 2013. And what do you want to spend on the next car? I'm going to need to spend at least $10,000, maybe $15,000 if I buy used, which is the plan. Okay. So if you buy $15,000 and your current one's worth $6,000, you need $9,000.

Right. And that takes not even a year. No, it takes a little over a year. It takes about 14, 15 months to save that up at $500 a month, right? Exactly. Okay, so 14 or 15 months, you've got your car upgrade. Meanwhile, you're putting 15% of your income in, and then we'll start paying extra on the house. I'd only have 500 extra to go towards the house.

I know. I know. But you've also extrapolated out into the distant future no raises. That's true, too. Yeah. So it's a miss. So the reality is you're going to pay off the house probably in six or seven years while putting 15 away while replacing this car with a decent thing everything you've described to me is very sane you are not a cray-cray american you're not out of control

thank you i mean really you you're very level-headed i mean you i was a bit afraid you were going to say $35,000 car and I was going to have a small cow right here on the radio, okay? No, mom and dad raised us differently from that. I'm telling you. So you really have your feet on the ground in a beautiful way. You've got a lot of common sense, kiddo. So you're going to be fine.

So the thing is this, you're going to be fine. So the thing is this. You're going to accomplish everything. The way we ran out the case studies and the way we've talked to literally millions of people that we've made into millionaires is that this idea, if you're putting 15% away, don't put more than that, but don't put less than that. You're going to end up a multimillionaire with that alone. And you're going to get the house paid off on average and your numbers are not different than that uh you know under 10 years it might be seven it might be 6.5 and it depends on the curve on your raise as well how quick you how much your raise goes up and i'm curious what do you do for living yeah i want to know this yeah i work in marketing for a small company. I'm just wondering, Alex, if you aren't thinking about the gig economy, freelance marketing after hours to speed up this buy a new car fund.

I would really be considering that. If you have the margin in your life with your skill set in today's marketplace, freelance work as a marketer, that's what I would be doing to get the car paid for. What kind of marketing are you doing for this small company? Like mostly website design, flyers, social media, helping them write content. What I love doing is like talking with engineers and then getting them to speak in English instead of geek. That's a full-time job. It's also extremely valuable. You're a translator in a digital economy.

So, let me, sometimes, and you tell me if I'm wrong, but sometimes when someone says, I'm a marketer at a small company, the small company part of the phrase is code for I feel like I'm not being paid what I could make somewhere else. Yeah, they're very fair. No, that wasn't what I asked. Did you say that accidentally in that statement? Yeah. Like you make 70, but you think if you moved over yonder, you might make 90?

Yeah. Yeah. I'd be thinking about that. Yeah. Yep. I'd be thinking about that. Yeah. Yep. And freelance. I can't say that enough. Yeah.

And lots of freelance stuff on the side. Because if you can do digital translation from the digital humans to the non-digital humans, you have a skill. How would you start tracking down freelance things? I looked at Fiverr, but it's so many international people that it's hard to find a gig no not international you just start looking in your area uh you're just getting on the internet you're talking to people there's a lot of freelance work there's a couple sites i don't want to endorse them because i haven't done a ton of research on other companies like your company that cannot afford a full-time marketer would pay for some side gig contractor work. It's there.

Get the exact same work done in that situation. Because we have a lot of folks inside of our building that do what you do. They're digital translators. I never called them that before today, but that's what they do. And so you get on a squad with the digital teams, and then you have to learn to speak their language. And then we also have to learn that the consumer, you know, what's the consumer facing after we write this code? What's it look like? How's it sound? How's it feel?

And that kind of stuff. Exactly. Yeah, that's exactly what you're doing. And I'm telling you, that's a very valuable skill in the marketplace right now. I think you're worth more than you're getting paid, probably. You made to think about that. You're amazing. It's fun to talk to you.

You're amazing. Very well done. Very well done. You're going to than you're getting paid, probably. You need to think about that. You're amazing. It's fun to talk to you. You're amazing. Very well done. Very well done. You're going to be very wealthy. You don't have to worry. If you keep using the brain the way you're using your brain right now, you're going to be very wealthy. Your decision-making skills, your thought paradigm is excellent.

This is The Ramsey Show. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. We're so glad you're here. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Hey, guys, we can use your help. If you want to help us out, it doesn't cost you a thing if you will click subscribe or follow or whatever it is on your podcast or your youtube or whatever and just let you know just sign up it changes the algorithm moves the show up in the rankings and causes other people to know we're here

it's a free way you can say thank you to us and uh so click follow click that and use the share button and if there's not a share button just share tell people tell people or take clip click a link out and go okay hey i saw this you guys got to start watching the show you got you won't believe it you got to start listening to this show you won't believe it and uh because it's absolutely phenomenal how many of you are there thank you uh the number of minutes being downloaded is just astronomical uh on the different versions it's absolutely crazy and we appreciate you thank you very much leave the five star review you know all those kinds of things really help change the algorithm of whether these different services push the show to the front and make it as a suggestion or not.

So thank you. Austin is in Milwaukee. Hi, Austin. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi. Thanks for taking my call. It's a pleasure speaking with you. Sure.

What's up? So I'll try to make it quick here, but I have a two-part question that kind of revolves around my career that I was hoping to get some answers or maybe suggestions on what I could do as I've been listening to you for quite some time now and ever since I've been trying to do everything right but I seem to back myself in a corner here with work and any further work to major my income growth. And so I'm 23 years old, and I'm truck driving for a career. I'm a regional over-the-road trucker, so not coast-to-coast or anything. I make about $62K base gross pay. But after all my overtime, I'll gross roughly around $85K a year, which is $5K a month after taxes and Roth 401K contributions. I have no debt, although I'm looking to make more money only because I feel like I'm meant to do more.

And I love my career and company I work for, so switching companies isn't something I'm really looking to do, even though certain companies out there I could get starting at $105K a year by trading more of my time for money and staying on the road longer, which I know is a big battle between making money and taking your time. The only problem with being a trucker, though, is that I'm restricted on how much I can work with a side gig, if I would, or more so a side job. As legally, you're only allowed to work 14 hours a day and a max of 70 hours a week. But between each 70 hour work week, you need to be resting for 34 hours with no pay, even if it's a non-driving job. And so the only solution I would have to think about getting

is an under-the-rug cash pay job, or do I just accept the fate and make an extra $20,000 by switching companies while looking to try to make more? Yeah, so what's more important to you is it is it staying in the the driving position you really love it and then having this time that you have now or is making more money what's more important because you gave us the whole scenario but it comes down to what is the biggest priority for you yeah I mean I you know it it's it's funny because I do enjoy my free time but there's most weekends that I'm either not doing something and I'm just

sitting there kind of not having anything to do and then I feel like I could be doing more you can't understand so forgive my ignorance is this the regulation of the company saying hey it's federal regulation it's a federal regulation you're not allowed to drive so he so you can't yeah but he can't did i understand that you can't work you can't do anything any outside work and receive uh income because if it's reported it's outside the federal regulation is that what i'm understanding i could during the week but i'm not home during the week except for one i got that part all right i'm going that direction okay so legally we can do something it's just during the week so what is how many hours do you have

on a regular week where you're not behind the wheel of a car uh typically it's about well you got 48 during the weekend because we get off weekends and then it's typically uh about 12 to 20 throughout the week all right so 12 to 20 hours is what you can work with to do something else because you said i feel like i'm supposed to do more. So we have to first look at what inventory of time you have to do other work. Now we've got 12 to 20 hours. So now you start getting into, well, what is it that I would do if I wasn't in the truck? What would this different type of work be? I believe you've got those ideas. I don't think a guy like you calls and doesn't have an idea to. So what would you do if you weren't limited to the truck, this other idea of work, doing something more? What is it? Well, I guess I've always had a, I don't know if you'd call it a dream,

but I've always wanted to start my own business because I've had a really good idea with it. Doing what? I could spend. What's the business? It would be, well, I would make a business with protein bars because I actually am a bodybuilder. And that's one struggle I've found with a nut allergy is there is not a single protein bar on the market that doesn't contain nuts or at least manufactured

in the same facility. All right. So let's make this big dream. Let's bring it way down for a second. Let's play with this. 12 to 20 hours, that's just if you were actually working for somebody, but you've got a whole lot more time to be able to look into what would it look like to put together a prototype bar that doesn't have the nuts in it or whatever it is that you've got figured out. You can figure out who's making these things. How many different companies across the nation are putting together protein bars just like a manufacturer in any other business? And now I start to research and I figure it out, and I figure out what it's going to cost me, who would make it, can I just sample it?

You've got all this time, even behind the wheel of a truck, to be listening to maybe podcasts about how to come up with a strategy to launch something like this. There are people that do this kind of stuff. It's free. So you become an expert in what it would take to launch a protein bar. That's it. We start there. Because if this is the dream, then we're not going to just launch into the protein bar business.

There's a whole lot of work. So you're using all this time to become an expert in what needs to happen. Then we look at the finance piece. What's that going to cost? And so now you've got a plan. Here's what I would have to do. Here's how much it's going to cost. So now you begin to save that money and you go slow. You don't risk a lot of money. You try it. You test it. This is a process. So I would be putting that desire to play in very practical ways, as I just described. And then over time, you might see yourself going, all right, I got to take a different trucking job to make more money to come up with an extra 20,000 to put into my first protein bar. And I've already got several

local stores that are willing to carry it. I don't have a ton of inventory, which means I don't have a ton of risk, and I begin to put it out there, and I see, does this bar go somewhere? Maybe you look into it enough where you go, you know what? I'm going to transition from the truck to actually working for a protein supplement company because I can do that. I can work for them. Is this entrepreneurial, or is it an actual professional path? All of that will become clear if you take your time and use all that extra hours and energy to dive into what is it going to take to do this thing. And that's how I do it. The way you're describing your situation is that there's only two options, doing what you're doing or not doing what you're doing.

And because you're looking at it as an all or nothing instead of an incremental by degree change. And so what I would do is pan back and say, okay, I'm 23. When I'm 33, what do I want to be doing? What must be true that's not true today for me to be able to do that? And then you start making, okay, there's 32 steps to get there over the next 10 years. We'll start taking those 32 steps. And that's what Ken was describing, the first steps of the 32 steps. But you just begin, by degrees, moving in the right direction a little bit at a time.

And that method of thinking will cause you to be able to move forward versus I'm stuck. You're not stuck. You can do the little steps in the right direction right now. That's what Ken's describing for you. This is The Ramsey Show. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Thanks for joining us in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the Debt-Free Stage. Joe and Emily are with us.

Hey, guys, how are you? Doing great. Doing good. Good. Where do you guys live? Just outside Madison, Wisconsin, in a town called Baraboo. Wow. very cool welcome to nashville and how much debt have you paid off 72 108 way to go and how long did this take 14 and a half months good for you and your range of income during that time we started out at about $170, and we finished up at about $200. Excellent.

Cool. What do you all do for a living? I am the guy that everybody curses when they try to get into those plastic packaging. You're the plastic packaging guy. I'm the plastic packaging guy. I'm that guy. Oh, okay. Are you talking like when you get a box in the mail and you can't even get it open with an X-Acto knife?

Yep, that's me. That level? That's me. I really do curse you. I felt so good. Love it. What do you do, Emily? I am a quality systems engineer.

All right. Very cool. Well, you guys are doing well. Congratulations. What kind of debt was the $72,000? It was a mix between credit cards. We had an ATV, a HELOC loan that we did use for some home improvements, and a school pledge for our church, and finally a land loan.

So during the height of COVID, we went and purchased about 11 acres of course you did yeah i mean we'd been looking for land for quite a while and we just couldn't find anything that we really really liked and then this one just happened to pop up it's like nope this is it we just knew it in our bones this was it so what happened 14 and a half months ago that changed everything because you guys were in the kind of normal you're just buying stuff on credit right and then you looked up and went this sucks we're not doing this what happened well actually the story goes back a little further um today is actually our sixth wedding anniversary oh congratulations and uh prior to us getting married i was a single mom living paycheck to paycheck and had over $70,000 in student loans.

When Joe and I got married, he basically took a look at me and said, can we do the best we possibly can to live on one income, essentially, and basically everything that I was bringing in, throw it at those student loans. And we got married. Long story short, struggled a lot with contentment during that time, realizing that we did have a good income, but trying to live on that one paycheck and um i switched jobs in 2021 um and the great resignation kind of turned into i don't know i was kind of looking at the great regret yeah and um just trying to get through each day at work i was listening to music

uh streaming music to get through my day and one day i just happened to think you know i'll turn a podcast on instead um and i i call it that god thing that must have happened. I just happened to turn on The Ramsey Show, which I wasn't very familiar with. That's my best promotional item, by the way. It just so happened that I was listening to an episode one day, and it was Ken Coleman and Dave Ramsey. Oh, wow. and Dave Ramsey. And you were talking about that very thing that I was living with, about changing jobs and feeling like basically you had wrecked your career by making that change. And I was really, really in a dark place at that time, really, really hurting and um listening to what the two of you were saying about um you know basically being a slave to the lender and as soon as you get your debts paid off you can

go do and explore what you're really passionate about and um I didn't know what the baby steps were at that point, but I heard something about an FPU class and I knew I needed to get that career assessment, first of all, because I didn't know what I, I didn't know if I was doing the right thing or the wrong thing at that point. I just just needed needed some guidance and so i wanted that career assessment i i needed to uh get out of debt so you go home and tell joe all this and joe's like okay awesome this is what i've been saying yeah this is what i've been saying she had a great but now what happened was what happened was emily you got a reason to do it all of a sudden the reason was escaping the crappy job in the toxic environment right

so i got to get this cleaned up so i don't have to come into work i don't have to do this yeah it changes everything very cool yeah it's a great why you gotta have a big old why if you're gonna do stuff you have to have a reason to do it so all right let's fast forward yeah so you're on board right and so you guys go let's get after this when you got into it was there a moment in the journey where you hit that big momentum where you really you both saw the finish line we can do this i think so i mean even when we first started, it was like, wow, money. We got money that we didn't know we had. You know, I'm not a budget guy. I'm not a guy that goes out and just spends just to spend.

But I'm not. No. No, I don't. I really don't. But I like, you know, tools and stuff like that. And if it's something I can use around the house, I have no problem going out and buying it. But, so I wasn't crazy with it but going down and doing the budget and sitting down every month and we can do this fast there's money here yeah

it was like pulling teeth to get me to do it yeah but once i started seeing the money yeah showing up out of nowhere like wow where did all this so the budget reveals them their heels yeah yeah and there's the momentum because you now have we can actually nail this yeah that's great there's a light at the end of the tunnel that's not an oncoming train yeah and then it became fun because it was wow we were watching these numbers just click off yeah i guess it's like boom boom boom boom boom boom here we go here we go here we go what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is i've been telling people look into your resources. As far as side hustles, we had our little side hustles that we did, but we also found other resources. We have friends that have a hobby farm and we were able to assist them on that farm and it cut our grocery budget significantly

because we were able to get the fresh fruits, fresh vegetables from the farm. Smart. And Joe is really good at canning and preserving. Oh, yeah. Mr. Package Pro here. Yeah. I love it.

I love it. Way to go, you guys guys how does it feel it's amazing to be free for the first time in six years and really more than that it's it's amazing um we had a family medical emergency just a couple uh months ago with a family member and to be able to step back and say you know what we can do what we need to at this moment and not have to worry about um the money side of it was was such a relief that's a big deal it's a big deal way to go you guys we're proud of you heroes you're amazing man i just they're kind of a little bit like floating they're not quite touching the ground pretty good that's pretty neat that's pretty cool very cool and you brought your daughter with you

right what's her name and age uh reagan she's 13 all right way to go all right so reagan's whole life has been changed too this is pretty amazing hey we've got the live and give box for you it's the baby steps millionaires book the Total Money Makeover book, and the Financial Peace University membership. Give it away. Use it however you want to do it. It's our way of saying thank you and our way of saying congratulations. Well done.

Very well done. Joe, Emily, and Reagan, Madison, Wisconsin area, $72,000 paid off in 14 1⁄2 months, making $170,000 to $200,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah!

Woo-hoo-hoo-hoo! This is how it's done. I love it. Man, what cool people. This is The Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day, Philippians 3, 13 and 14. One thing I do, forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead. I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. Benjamin Franklin said,

The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself. Boy, is that relevant today. That's a mouthful. That's a mic drop. You've got to love it. Mic drop by old Ben. Jeremy's with us.

Jeremy is in Tucson, Arizona. Hi, Jeremy. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. Thank you. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? So, quick question.

My son, youngest son, got himself stuck into a whole life policy. And, of course, I want to talk him out of it, get him to invest in something else. So I know the biggest hook is he can borrow against his policy. I know that with the 401k, you'll get penalized, which leads me to maybe mutual funds, which I don't know a whole lot about. So I was wondering what's the major difference between the 401k and a mutual fund that he may be able to borrow against in the future? Okay. How old is your son?

He's 23. Okay. All right. Well, I don't think, I mean, number one, let's just ask the question, why is he going to listen to you? Well, I've had a really good relationship with him, and the whole reason he got himself stuck in here was because I kept pushing for to invest, to save money, to think about his future.

But then he picked a bad way of doing it. Right. And when you say, son, this is a dumb way of doing it, it's not a good investment program, what does he say? Oh, I can borrow against it? That's his big hook, yes. Okay. Well, no one ever got rich borrowing their investments.

Right. They invest them and they forget them. You're completely against it. Yeah, borrowing against it is not a method of wealth building. That's a method of selling insurance, crappy insurance, but it's not a method of wealth building. Right, and that's what got him in. He was actually looking for health and disability and death insurance

is where he started looking, and then they hooked him on the whole life policy. Yeah. So, I mean, my point is that we can answer your question. A 401K is not an investment. It is how an investment is treated for taxes. Typically, inside of a 401k, you're going to find mutual funds. So you have a mutual fund that's either covered with a coat keeping it warm from taxes,

and the coat is called a 401k or an IRA or a Roth IRA, or it has no coat and it's out in the cold and has taxed. But in both cases, it's still a mutual fund. Could be the exact same mutual fund. But wealthy people don't build their investments in order to borrow against them. And so if he wants to become wealthy, he's picked a really bad way of doing it. Number one, borrowing against it number two he's picked the probably one of the worst financial products alive today and it is the whole life policy

because it has a horrible rate of return in the first three years that you pay 20x 20 times more for the same amount of life insurance so you you buy a $100,000 whole life policy, you buy a $100,000 term policy. If the $100,000 whole life policy is $100 a month, the $100,000 term policy is $5 a month. That's what research tells us. So it's 20 times more expensive, $95 extra per hundred. Okay. Now, where does that go? It goes into an investment called cash value.

And so you, and the cash value has no buildup for the first two to three years. They keep 100% of your investment as commissions the first three years. You have zeros on your cash value buildup the first three years. Well, that sucks. And once you get past having a really front-loaded horrible commission off the front end and it finally starts making money, the average whole life policy, according to research, averages 1.2% rate of return.

Not going to get rich on that either. Oh, and then when you finally get past all of that, if you actually build it up, you can borrow and pay them interest to use your money. So if you have a savings account and you want to borrow and you want to take money out of your savings account, you don't have to pay money. You just take money out of your savings account. But with a whole life policy, money you just take money out of your savings account but with a whole

life policy you want to take money out you have to pay them interest to use your money that you paid 20 times more to build up this thing sucks oh and it's even worse than that you finally build up inside your whole $100,000 policy $20,000 worth of cash value and then you screw around and die which we all do oh guess what happens to your 20 000 that you paid 95 extra per month to build up after getting past horrible rates of return and no and no commit and no build up at all for the first three years because they kept it all as a commission once you finally get 20 000 in there and you die they pay a hundred thousand dollars they keep your savings account.

So if you had a savings account at the bank, or if I started pitching you a savings account on TikTok, and I said, hey, here's your savings account. The first three years you put money in, nothing happens. We keep it all. After that, it makes 1.2%, and when you die, you lose your money. No one would put money in that. That's a whole life policy. So nobody ought to put money in a whole life policy so you can just play this rant back for your son jeremy when it comes out on the podcast and it'll answer it's perfect that's exactly what i would do and i'm not

even i mean that's exactly son watch this yeah this is just don't just, don't do it, don't do it. You got, son of Jeremy, you have been screwed by the life insurance industry, and they are very good at their business of screwing people. It's unbelievable, horrible product. Let me tell you, if you're poor, the way they get you is the pawn shops. The way they get you is the rent to own. The way they get you is the payday lender. The way they get you is the rent to own the way they get you is the payday lender the way they get you is lottery tickets if you're middle class the way they get you is they make you believe you're going to get rich on airline miles using your stupid credit card well that's a dumb

idea the way they get you is they get you into a whole life policy. That's a dumb butt idea. The way they get you is they go, sophisticated rich people lease their cars. No, they don't. No, they don't. It's a dumb butt middle class thing to do. So the whole life policy is the payday lender of the middle class. It's a signal that you intend to be in the middle class to stay there the rest of your life because you got screwed by the insurance companies. And I got to tell you, man, if you don't like that and you sell whole life,

you need to actually learn how your product works. And then if you have integrity, you'll quit selling that crap. Because there's only two types of people that sell whole life, the ones that don't understand it and the ones that are crooks. Because if you understand that crap and you sell it you by definition are a crook because anybody that would sell someone an investment that the insurance company keeps their money that they put in there upon death and call that a good deal is a crook that's just bull okay it's just absolute scam stuff it just pisses me off and i'll tell you what the whole life i

thought it had just about gone away and freaking tiktok has revived whole life tiktok of all things i mean people listen people if your social media sounds like a tiktak you should you know there's only one thing you should listen to on t, and that's stuff we put out. But other than that, it's awful. It's a barren landscape of morons. It's crazy. Absolute nuts. Oh, God.

And the whole life stuff is all over it. Like, they just invented it yesterday. It's the oldest financial product. Ma'am, the financial planning community completely abandoned this garbage 35 years ago. No one sells whole life life insurance except life insurance agents. No one in the financial planning community believes in it. We've all been looking at it going, you've got to be kidding. For decades.

And now that stuff comes back on Tic Tac. It's unbelievable. Wow. I got a new idea out of this rant a new sponsor blood pressure medicine for dave when he goes off on whole life this is fantastic you can't stand those people it's unbelievable i think you made that abundantly clear that puts this hour of the ramsey show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Hey, it's Ken. If you like what you heard in this episode and want to know more about getting

started on the Ramsey Baby Steps, go to ramsesolutions.com and click on the Get Started button. We'll help you figure out the best next step for you based on your specific situation. Again, that's ramseysolutions.com and click Get Started.