The Ramsey Show - App - What’s the Best Way To Save for the Future? (Hour 1)

Episode Date: August 1, 2022

Dave Ramsey & George Kamel discuss: Dealing with a family member who was left out of an inheritance, What a young person should do with extra savings, Paying for kids' school.   Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. We help people build wealth, do work that they actually love, and create real amazing relationships. George Campbell, Ramsey personality, host of the Fine Print and Entree Leadership Podcast on Ramsey Networks, is my co-host today as we answer your questions about your life and

your money. It is a free call, and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. The phone number, 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Mary in Tallahassee, Florida starts off this hour. Hey, Mary, what's up? Hi, how are you? Thank you for taking my call. My pleasure. How can we help? It's an honor to speak with you. You too. what's up well i have a question i have an inheritance and my sister was left out of the will whoa why i think that there's been some conflict uh along the years that uh i don't think that got resolved. One was her significant other, and it just never got resolved.

And some things had been said along the way. My mom was very strong-willed and very independent. My dad passed away 25 years ago, so she had to be that. So your mom was not in relationship with your sister exactly and chose to not leave her anything as a result exactly well that sounds reasonable oh wow okay well why would your mom leave something to somebody that doesn't speak to her yeah well she tried to my sister tried to with my mom, but my mom had just had enough. Right.

She'd had enough. She cut her off. Right. In life and in death. Right. You know, the old-fashioned saying for that is, you're dead to me. You ever heard that? Yes. Sometimes teenagers usually don't even know what they're talking about, but that's where it comes from. So, Mary, do you feel guilty guilty is that why you're calling at at first i did but then um i kind of

got i got shut down basically she she said are you going to you know split this with me just i want to know so if you're not that means you agree with with mom and i said i didn't say that we're not taking that guilt trip no thank you that's on her yeah i kind of with your mom i don't like your sister much well so it has been yes because i'm trying trying to do the the main thing but also at the same time i'm trying to honor my mom yeah um and i tried to smooth things over and it it did not work i tried my very best and now i'm your sister's a head case yeah so i've you know i was like well what do i do now so it's been uh you lose your parents you know to dementia alzheimer's and then you deal on this and now not talking to me so i'm like well where do i go

because that's gonna cut that road that's going to cut that no no no no no no no no no no no you not giving her money is not cutting the relationship off she is choosing to cut the relationship off oh that makes sense you didn't choose choose. She chose. I'm sorry. It hurts, though. It does. And when you have a manipulator trying to manipulate you and you don't fall for it and they back off and throw grenades, it does hurt. I'm so sorry. What was your relationship to your sister prior to the inheritance?

Well, I've always wanted more of a relationship than what I got. And now when there's money, she wants a relationship. Yeah, but there's... If you have to buy a relationship, isn't that called prostitution? Yeah, right. But also at the same time, I don't know, I think that there was a lot of, what do you call it, resentment towards me, which I did not know. It finally came out when my mom got sick seven years ago with Alzheimer's dementia. And it all came out, and I'm like, what did I do? And then this is the final thing.

You're going to have to release yourself. The truth is, did you really do anything wrong, Mary? No. Were you mean to your sister? No. Did you reach out to her? Yes. Did she reciprocate? No. Did she call you up after there to your sister? No. Did you reach out to her? Yes. Did she reciprocate?

No. Did she call you up after there was money involved? Yes. Only when there was money involved. Did she actually reach out and act like you needed a relationship with her? Right. She did not. That's right.

She's not really interested in a relationship with you. She's just interested in money. Is that wrong? Am I wrong? You're spot on. That's what the evidence in this discussion says you. She's just interested in money. Is that wrong? Am I wrong? You're spot on. That's what the evidence in this discussion says anyway. Right. But it still hurts.

Yes. Because it's your sister. It's your last remaining relative now with your dad and your mom both gone. You know, it feels she puts it on you as if you caused this. You didn't cause any of it. She chose to be resentful to you because you were actually able to maintain a relationship with your mother albeit your mother might be difficult too it sounded like but you were able to maintain that and you weren't being manipulative in that

you were just able to walk a road your sister couldn't walk with your mom and so now she's mad at mom and now she's mad at you and now if you don't give her money she's mad at you right and sick puppy right and i also was told she uh my mom destroyed our family by doing that so i was that was a and then i said um uh mom loved her family family. Don't ever tell me that she loved her family. So it kind of had built from there. Well, she's hurt and mad at your mom. Right, right. She's a wounded girl.

Right. If I thought you giving her money would make all of this go away and everybody would be happy and not not weird and you guys would just be great little sisters like in some movie or something yeah i would tell her to share it with her because it's just stupid money but money's not the problem here it's just it's just revealing the problem right and so it doesn't we know it's not going to fix it because let me tell you give her half the money okay how long is it set your watch how long is it before she's pissed off about something else true tick tick tick tick oh there it is yeah true so that tells us it's not about the money

it's about the dysfunctional sister so um you know know, what I would just say, you know, Dr. John Deloney would say write her a letter and then maybe don't send it. Just get it out of your system. But grieve the loss of the relationship because it hurts. And, you know, you might just set some boundaries and tell her, listen, this is not about money. When you and I are friends again we can talk about

stuff like money but right now i've tried to have a relationship with you and you didn't want to have one until there was money involved so it's this is on you you know and so if you want to come hang out for a dinner anytime i'd love to have you i'm not mad at you but as as of right now, no, we're not going to have any financial discussions or transactions. You know, if you ever need any help and we're in a good, strong relationship together again, I'll try to help you. But so the other thing I try to remember is, okay, I get that mom wasn't the easiest person. But, you know, this is her will. It's what she wanted to happen. That's why they call it her will. It's what she wanted to happen. That's why they call it a will.

This is what I will to happen. I want this to happen. And that was her will. She decided with her money what she wanted to have happen to her money. It's not your place to change that. And so I wouldn't, especially in this situation, because it's not going to get you what you want. But it does hurt.

And I'm sorry. Poor little sister, she's messed up. This is the Ramsey Show. george camall ramsey personality is my co-host. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Okay, rule of thumb, everybody needs a will. Go to mamabearlegalforms.com, get your will, put Ramsey in the promo, and you'll find the deals, right? Everybody ought to have a will. If you have a whacked family

situation like our last caller where someone's not going to be in the will or they're you're getting different levels of inheritance for whatever reason um or it's complicated like you've got a blended family yours mine and ours that kind of thing um the you owe it to your family to have a reading of the will before you die hard to do it after yeah well there's a reading but it's not you doing it so yeah you need to sit down tell everybody why what's happening is happening and that's the deal because it can ruin relationships as we saw with the last caller exactly it now that relationship was already ruined there wasn't one there it exposed a ruined relationship but it didn't cause it but the thing is what that mom did by not telling the sister that she was cutting her out she leaves the pressure on the remaining

sister and the the anger directed at mom gets transferred to her sister so you just say uh you're not getting as much you know for whatever reason and you explain it to them and then if they want to not like it they cannot like it while you're alive. That's called character courage, those kinds of things. Now, in this case, mom had dementia. And in this case, she didn't have enough of a relationship to even have the discussion with the little sister. It sounds like. So I'm not sure she did anything wrong in that regard.

But we go to great lengths inside the ramsey family to make sure that everyone knows where they stand no surprises this is who's in the will this is what's going on this is what the will looks like this is what that trust is going to do this is what's going to happen with that piece of real estate this is what's going to happen with the company this is what's going to happen with that and it's so bad that we have an annual estate planning meeting where we discuss my death in front of me. Is there a name for that? Yeah, it's the If Dave Dies This Year meeting. So it's awful.

It's like a Monty Python movie. I'm feeling much better. It's just a flesh wound. But, oh, my God, I'm planning my death every year. It's morbid as crud. Well, and the older you get, the more real it gets. Hey, hey, hey, hey, I'm planning my death every year. It's morbid as crud. Well, and the sooner, the older you get, you know, the more real it gets. Hey, hey, hey, hey. I'm just saying.

You're worse. Yeah, no, it's the closer you are, you got one foot in the grave. Come on, Dave, you need to be doing this. But, yeah, it's, you don't have to do it every year. In our case, it's so much going on. It's so complicated. There's so many moving parts that we even bring in our leadership team here at Ramsey so that they

know the operating board they know what's going to happen who's doing what and we don't get into the infinite details but the all the stuff concerning those people if it concerns you you should be in there you know and so take the time and then you don't have this dramatic reading of the will with all the emotions like some murder agatha christie movie thing or something uh with the ridiculous uh plastic surgery stepmother and the lost uh lost child coming in from nowhere and ridiculous things and family members coming out of the woodwork i remember when richard prior was the toy remember that was a thousand years ago movie but those are bizarre human are bizarre movie scripts they should not happen in real life okay you should it should be a um

it you know people should say this is where it is and i'm perfectly okay if you don't want to give someone your money because by the way it's your money you get to decide that i if if i think it's weird i'll tell you but if the girl hasn't spoken to her mother for years and her mother doesn't leave her money that would seem logical to me but you're not owed money just because you're in the DNA chain. Yeah. There's an entitlement there. Yeah, the DNA chain does not mean you're owed money. Now, the law will give you money if there's not a will, but morally you are not owed money because you're in the DNA chain.

Just, you know. So if you're meaner than crud to your whole family and everybody in the family hates you and your mean boyfriend is mean to your mean mother, there's a lot of mean people in here, then your mean mother doesn't leave you and your mean boyfriend is mean to your mean mother there's a lot of mean people in here then your mean mother doesn't leave you and your mean boyfriend money why would you be shocked it sounds logical you know but mean mom ought to go ahead and tell mean daughter you know you're mean and i'm mean and i'm not leaving you any of my mean money do people just not want to have that uncomfortable conversation is Is that why they don't do this?

They're cowards. And so have the courage to call it and say, this is what's going on. You vote the wrong way. I'm not leaving you any money. I'm not supporting that party. You don't know how to vote for presidents, so I'm not going to help you. I don't care what it is. You get to decide.

It's your money. You can be as crazy or as weird as you want to be with your money that's the plan so that's what we're doing get a will and talk about the will get a will and tell everybody what's in it that you know i know people that do a will leave someone to be the guardian of their children and didn't bother to check with them oh boy, boy. It's like, surprise! You've got three kids. Can you do that legally? Do they have any legal obligations?

Legally, but it'd be a... Just because anything like that, I don't want to talk... Doing a will is hard enough. I don't want to talk about what's in it. I don't care. It's like grown-up stuff, boys and girls. Jill's with us in Los Angeles. Hey, Jill, what's up?

Hi, sir. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? So I am 19 years old and I would like your advice on what to do with some extra savings I have. Cool. How'd you get the money? Okay. So I have four accounts right now. So I work a part-time job at an ice rink. I'm an assistant coach. And from that job, I have built $1,500 in a checking account and $9,500 in a savings account. Way to go. Thank you. That's awesome.

And then, separately, I have about $47,000 in my dad's credit union. And then I have an investment account with roughly $100,000 in an S&P 500 index fund. Whoa, where'd you get that? My grandmother. She's very blessed and she's very generous. Wow. Good for you. Cool. And the 47K, the credit union, where'd that come from? Also my grandmother. Okay, cool. And it's all in your name? Yes. I can't touch it until I want to buy a house or a car, but that's not going to be an issue right now since I have a car already

and my parents are on Baby Step 7. Why can't you touch it? You promised you wouldn't. Yes. I want to save it in the... No, I don't think... I didn't say it's unwise. You said, I can't.

But I think you meant, I won't. Yeah, I won't. Okay. It say it's unwise. You said I can't, but I think you meant I won't. Yeah, I won't. Okay. It's not in a trust. It's not a legal document, but you just promised grandma you wouldn't use it except for those things. Correct. Good.

That's a good promise. Okay, good. What's the horizon look like as far as college? Do you plan on going to college? Yes. So currently I'm a sophomore in college and I'm studying to be a dietician. Cool. Is school paid for or are you cash flowing it? Completely paid for. My parents fully funded it and my grandmother pitched in too.

Wow. You've got some awesome family who have a good head on their shoulders. Oh, I am extremely blessed. So your question is what? So should I keep my $9,500 in my savings account, or should I invest that money so it can grow? Do you have an emergency fund currently? Yes, my checking account. Is that part of the $47,000?

No, it's part of the checking account with the $1,500 in it. That doesn't sound like much of an emergency fund. Yeah, your $9,500 is your emergency fund. So no. No, I would just leave it sitting there. Where are you living right now? Are you renting? Are you with family?

I'm living with my parents, and I'm commuting out to college currently. Okay, cool. Well, let's get through school. Let's see what life looks like on the other side, and then we can decide what to do with this money. But you've got a car. School's paid for.

The next logical goal would be to get that down payment on a house when you're ready for it. But there's no rush. You're doing great at 19. After school, yeah. Your next logical goal is to finish school. Yes. And you seem to have that covered, but I'm just going to let the 9500 sit there. It's just a nice little insurance policy.

It's not really going to make you rich or make you poor, what you do with it. It's not enough money to do that. So a lot of these other things, the habits you're learning, the things you're gleaning from your family, how smart they've been, that's all setting you up. And you really do have a great eye on this and a great intentionality. That's more important than the 9500. I would let it sit there as your emergency fund. Thanks for the call. George Campbell Ramsey personality is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage Jason Jason and Allison are with us. Hey, guys, how are you?

Hey, Dave, how's it going? Welcome, welcome. Where do you guys live? We're from Raleigh, North Carolina. Cool. Welcome to Nashville. And here to do a debt-free scream, how much have you paid off? We paid off $240,000.

Good for you. How long did that take? Took a little over 11 years. 11 years, 4 months. Ooh, okay. Very good. And your range of income during that time we started out around 50 000 single income and it got up to 150 000 wow what do y'all do for a living i'm a teacher and i'm a replacement manager for a hvac company okay

very cool good for y'all so 240 $240,000 over 11 years. Is that your house? That is our house, Dave. It is. All right. Look at it, weird people. Man, no house payment. How old are you two?

39 and 40. Wow. And a paid for house. Yes, sir. What's the house worth? We checked this morning. It was $457,000. Let's go. I love love it how much in your retirement

accounts we have a little over 200 000 we just kind of got that going back yeah here in the last couple years um so now that's our next goal to get that knocked out yeah you're gonna getting ready to be baby steps millionaires look at you guys 40 years old you're getting ready to be Baby Steps Millionaires. Look at you guys. 40 years old. You're right on track. Well done. Whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop. That's a long track, man. 11 years and four months. Tell us the story.

What got that started? Well, we started when we found out I was pregnant with our daughter. And we decided that I should stay home for a little while. We had our son turn two right after she was born. So two, basically two and under was a bit of a challenge. And so I stayed home for four years and that's when we started looking towards the baby steps and the envelope system. And I was able to stay home for four years. And then once I went back to work things really got into motion for us but we took after two years of staying home we took FPU and that really set us on like you said like you say with

the gazelle we were ready to go we got rid of cable and we took away some other things and just once I went back to work things really got into gear for us wow and you met dave i just saw a photo it looks vintage check this out was it news radio 680 oh that's over yeah okay look at that that's a ways back there so is that along the journey you guys met him there it was actually he came to raleigh for entree leadership book you just come out with it and uh i was like come come on, Allison. Grab the kids. We've got to get up there.

You've got to meet this guy. He's going to change our life. And he did. Wow. That's impressive. Wow. So proud of you guys. Was this all the mortgage, the 240?

Did you guys have any other type of debt along the way? A majority of it was. We had part of a car in there and an ATV. But majority of it, we we cleared that out real quick soon as we got on but we were like no it mean more to our kids if they could be here with us when we fully pay everything off and we we didn't we didn't call it or anything we were like nope we're going to continue till we get to the final stage and we do it in person yep do everything so now our kids are

you know a little bit more grown compared to those pitchers now we're hoping that it sinks in a little bit more and they get a lot from it that's fun very fun now that's a long time to stick with it as we said uh what do you think the key is to sticking with it and to getting out of debt i would say as far as staying on the same page having budget meetings you know we get to the end of the month and they're getting started and then we would even throughout the process we would run out of money before month but we stuck with it i did a lot of side work i've been in here and there ever since i was you know right out of high school so I knew how to do work on the side and make some extra money.

I wasn't around all the time, but now that we're here, that time that I missed being out on the weekends and late at night running service calls and all that good stuff, it's worth it now because it's helped us dig out of that hole a lot faster to where now I don't do that anymore. I'm home with the wife and family and spend a lot more time. And it was worth it at that time to be that Godzilla intense and pressing through it. Wow.

And one thing, too, we always went on a vacation. That was one thing that we didn't give up. Which you're not supposed to in baby steps four, five, six. Right. But a lot of people, you know, say, well, we're not supposed to and baby steps four five six you're supposed to go on vacation but a lot of people you know say well we're not going to do this we still want to have those experiences with our kids and make those memories so that was another thing that we still made paying off your house in 11 years that's the normal i mean that's about the right track i mean that's the anywhere from 7 to 14 is our is our range and most people hit it around 10 or 11 years

so these are some of the things that we cash flowed. Two trips to Disney. We went to Paris and London, just her and I, for 10 days. We took the kids camping out west twice to Grand Canyon and Yellowstone. Both of them in braces. We cash flowed every bit of that. My wife had a wrist surgery, and we paid for a new car well new to us used car and we also got a camper in that process and every bit of it was paid by cash wow that's exactly how you're supposed to do it perfectly done well done you guys

no trauma for the kids they're not scarredred. They had a great childhood, America, if you're wondering. You guys are incredible. Reminder, gazelle intensity is baby steps one through three, which is getting out of debt everything but the house and getting the emergency fund. And then when you move from that to baby steps four, five, six, which is where they've been the majority of this 11 years while all these things happened, you're moved from intensity to intentionality. So you guys worked that plan perfectly. Exactly what you're moved from intensity to intentionality so you guys worked that plan done perfectly exactly what you're supposed to do very very well done excellent

excellent job how's it feel now that you don't have a payment in the world really good we got out in the front yard we walked in the grass barefooted we heard everybody else on the range shows like we got we've got to try this, and we did it, and it was awesome. What did the neighbors think? Are they going, there's some weird people there. We did it in daylight. Walking around with a mortgage on fire in your hand.

Have you had a few paychecks hit without the mortgage now? Yeah, where it stays with you? We paid it off in February. Oh, awesome. It's the muscle memory of paying that payment now we don't have it now it's like you gave yourself a raise we did yeah well we went to Disney World in June it was like not nearly as stressful I mean we weren't going crazy or anything but we could I felt like we

could enjoy it you know yeah you have to think about the money yeah I used to I used to know a guy he said my goal is make enough money where I can read the menu from left to right. I love that. Instead of starting with the price. I'm going to just order what I want, and then I'm going to look at the price. Absolutely. That's what you did at Disney. You were out of control, but you could just do it, and it was going to be okay.

It's not the way to go, you guys. You're exactly living like no one else so later you can live and give like no one else yeah beautifully done beautifully done well we've got a copy of baby steps millionaires for you without a doubt that's the next chapter in your story and total money makeover for you to give away and get someone else started financial peace university membership for a year thank you the brand new videos with george and dr john deloney and rachel cruz and me in them. It's the best videos we've ever done in that class

by the way right now. Those of you that need to go back through FPU, some of you, that's a good time to do it. So well done. And you brought the kiddos. Bring them up.

What are their names and ages? Jacob is 13 and Catherine is 11. And they were just little babies when all this starts, huh? They were. Now he's about taller than dad. A two-year-old

and a brand new baby, yeah. Yeah. Wow, very, very cool. Did they learn some things along the way, the money principles? He actually already has a few of the books. He's read them, yeah. Financial peace baby right here.

I love it. And he gets to listen to the podcast with me in the car most times whenever we're driving somewhere. He gets to, Dave. He has the opportunity to listen. I love that. Verbiage. Not has to, gets to.

This is great. Well done, you guys. Great looking family. I'm so proud of y'all. You're heroes. Thank you, Dave. Very, very well done. You own your life.

Jason and Allison, Jacob and Catherine, Raleigh, North Carolina, 240,000 paid off, house and everything. 11 years and four months, making 50 to 150. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. All right, here making 50 to 150. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream. Alright, here we go. 3, 2, 1. We're debt free! Woo!

Yeah! Ha ha ha ha ha! I love it! Another family tree change. Just like that, before our eyes. Boom, just like that. Man, that's a cool family. This is The Ramsey Show. សូវាប់ពីបានប់ពីបានប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពី Georgia Camel Ramsey personality is my co-host. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Thank you for joining us, America.

We're glad you're here. Every time you hear someone do their debt-free scream, you know, at some point they said, I've had enough. I'm not living like this anymore. I've had it. When you get mad like that and you're ready to change, that's when you really will change. Until then, it's an intellectual discussion discussion and intellectual discussions never moved anybody off the center wrong you got to decide to control what you can control and step into it your behavior you got to deal with the behavior the problem with your money the problem with my money is the guy in my mirror financial peace university will show you how to get control and change your future it'll show you every detail of the step-by-step plan everything you should have been taught with money and about money but weren't nearly 10 million people have gone through this

learning how to get out of debt be on a budget work with their spouse build wealth increase their generosity yeah don't let debt and money stress control your life. Finally say it. Enough! Take back control of your life. Financial Peace University. RamseySolutions.com slash enough. RamseySolutions.com slash enough.

George Campbell Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Lacey is in Denver. Hi, Lacey. How are you? Good. Thanks for taking my call. Sure.

How can we help? I have a question about Baby Step 5. My husband and I are out of debt. We have an emergency fund um we are rather behind in retirement um and we have we have six children four are adults and they um are in or have finished college all on their own they got they got a scholarship they had part-time jobs, internships, all on their own debt-free, either have finished or are in process of that. We also have two younger children who are only in third and fourth grade, and our income has increased dramatically. So for the first time, I feel like we really have the ability to actually save for college for them,

but we're kind of debating whether or not we even want to do that because it's been so good for our older children. We're not, I don't know, is it ethical to just say we can, but we're not going to pay for college? Sure. It's ethical. Definitely ethical. It would also not be unethical to just pay for college.

Okay. I mean, unless you raise some entitled brat. I think paying for college, you know, it's not going to change their character, whether they pay. Now, you want them to have some skin in the game. That's what I'm hearing. Yeah, I do. You treat college differently are you worried about what the four older ones will think a little bit yeah well i mean it's it's

it's okay to have an awkward discussion with the four older ones in the room one time like a like a christmas go hey guys we need to have 15 minutes of awkward everybody hold your breath you ready here we go fair is where the tilta oral is and they have cotton candy so let's talk about fair how would you feel because now we make more money than we've ever made before if we were to actually financially help your little brother and little sister where we didn't help you how would y'all feel about that let's just talk about it by the way you don't really get a vote we're just asking for your opinion and have an awkward conversation and get that out of the way i'll tell you what you might learn

you might learn that they say this was the best thing that ever happened to me and you go you know what i i don't i really don't want to steal that from the little ones i'm going to make them work their butts off too or they might go you know it was okay we got through it but it kind of left some scars and i love my little brother sister enough if you pay for part of it it'd make me happy they might say either one one of them might say one thing the other one might say the other is that right is that right yeah possibly yeah yeah i don't see it as a you just had picture you just had pictures of their faces flash in front of your mind went that one's gonna say that now it's gonna say that you just did just now i watched you do it

i think you're seeing it with black and white options of a or b why not have the money there and have parameters around it and say hey we have 30 grand per years per year you can go to the state school if anything beyond that you pay for and you're going to get a part-time job and still apply for scholarships but our kids have had some fun adult discussions the uh oldest is a daughter the middle is a daughter and my youngest is my son and they've had some fun discussions in our presence where denise is like you know i i couldn't do one-tenth of the things you got away with little brother you know because they were hardcore on me and then you know and and so and then you know what they all survived and they

don't like each other less and they don't like us less because of it there was no malice involved but by the time we got to the third one by the time you get to the sixth one you know some of your energy runs out and you're just like oh whatever jump off a cliff whatever you're gonna do go go play with a lawnmower it's okay i mean you know whatever it is you're gonna god whatever you're just a little bit less freaked out the first one you're like oh god they're near the kitchen you know it's like and so you just and and you're much we were harder on our oldest discipline wise. And I think we got lazy or we started figuring out it wasn't all necessary or whatever. I mean, we weren't like super hard on one and not hard on the other one.

Oh, they all had to behave. But, you know, I, hey, fair is where the tilt award and the cotton candy is. I mean, it's, you don't get fair. So I think you're doing okay either way. It's just probably really good family exercise to have a fun over Thanksgiving discussion. Instead of getting out John Deloney's conversation cards, use these. Use this, right? But the key is to have a conversation. And have some fun with it and laugh about it.

Because, listen, you make a lot more money. Your life is different than it was when those kids were this, when your oldest one was in third grade. You're different people. You're a different life. You make a lot more money. It's a different situation. You go on better vacations now. You go out to eat at better places now.

And those kids get to ride along. And the older one didn't. So that's how life works. It's okay. It's all right you're not a bad person either way yeah it's not unethical ethics are not on the table here um but i know a lot of people that are hardcore and say nope not paying for any of it it's good for them just get it out i'm gonna coach you i'll be your biggest cheerleader but you get nada you're

gonna figure this out i'll show you what to do, but I'm not signing any loans, and I'm not giving any money. So here's what you do. You need to get some scholarships, a job, and go to a school you can afford. And they start laying it out ahead of time and put some perimeters, like you did with your oldest ones, and you can do that. There's nothing wrong with that. There's also nothing wrong with paying for college ethically.

Yeah. I don't think it's going to create a bunch of brats. I think what she's wanting is the character that it created to have them it's good scholarships and part-time jobs it's good and uh just to juxtaposition that while we're having a discussion and not really part of her answer but just all three ramsey kids we paid for the college but there were parameters around that lots of parameters parameters are you're going to live on the budget and here's the amount you have to live on it's not it's not opulent um and um you're gonna uh you're gonna be walking a values-based life that aligns with our family value system uh which we're christians so that would include walking with god and so you're not

going to be off misbehaving off going bananas out there, okay? And us writing checks for your misbehavior. We're going to fund your misbehavior. Not likely. Not going to happen. So, you know, you're going to be doing that. And they had to finish in four years, is that right? Yeah, they had to finish in four years, and they went to an in-state school.

And so we weren't wasting money. So if Rachel said, Dave, I want to go to a private school in a different state. Not paying for it. Actually, she did. No, it was worse than that. She wanted to go to an out-of-state university in the SEC that was not the University of Tennessee, which is somewhat like blaspheming. It's heretical.

Yeah, we just shut that heretic down right quick because it was uh i mean it was like 3 000 bucks or something at that time to go to ut and it was like 14 000 to go to this other sec school which will not be named which will not be named um but the only reason she wanted to do it was she thought it was cool it had nothing to do with nothing that's how 17 17-year-olds make decisions. $11,000 because you went across the state line and got basically the same education. I don't think so. At 17, you're not doing math.

You're just picking the coolest option. That's it. Well, Rachel, it would just be I wanted to be different. I don't want to be like everyone else. Well, she's accomplished that. Yeah, she has accomplished that. And it made a brand out of it. It's pretty good. I'm proud of brand out of it. It's pretty good.

I'm proud of her. Good stuff. It's a good discussion. This is The Ramsey Show. Dave here. You can find all of our shows with the Ramsey Network app on your smartphone. It's the only place to listen to the entire back catalog of episodes. Download the Ramsey Network app in your favorite app store today.