The Ramsey Show - App - What’s Wrong With Building Wealth Using Debt? (Hour 3)

Episode Date: August 9, 2022

George Kamel & Kristina Ellis discuss: Dealing with bills in collections, The problem with building wealth using debt, What to do with an inheritance, Getting started with the baby steps, Preparing to move out on your own.   Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6

Девочка-пай From Ramsey Network, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help you get control of your money, get ahead in your career, and get on the path to living well. I'm George Campbell, your host, joined today by Christina Ellis, and we are here to take your calls about life and money. The number is 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Tyler kicks us off this hour in Atlanta. Tyler, welcome to the show.

Thank you for taking my call. Yeah, sure. What's going on? I have a question about some collections. Okay. On how to pay them off. All right. How many bills do you have in collections? It's about 10, and the total is about $19,000. $19,000. What kind of debt is this?

Medical bills, student loans, well, from a credit union that I loaned out in, um, after I graduated high school, uh, a few old car loans and a few personal loans. Okay. And what got you to this point? Have you, uh, when, when was the last time you paid on these and what made you stop? Uh, never paid on them. You never, you never made a single payment on any of this? No. Did you have intention to? Oh, yes, of course, of course. And what happened?

I just didn't get around to it. Forgot all about it. Then I started getting them in the mail. I was like, okay, I need to start paying these. And I just want to know which ones should I do first. Well, have they been contacting you for a while now? Are these old? Oh, yeah, they're very old.

Some like five years old, six years old, seven years old. Okay. Well, number one, we've got to be proactive and get in touch with them and communicate. But they haven't been knocking down your door, calling you, any of that? Oh, no. I got a few letters in the mail a couple days ago,

and I said I need to start paying them. Okay. And I totaled them all down, and yeah. Is that all of the debt that you have currently, the $19,000? Yes. What do you do for a living? Real estate. Okay. How old are you? 26. All right. What's your income? About $150,000. $150,000. So you could pay this debt off pretty fast. Yes, real fast. What's holding you back? I don't know which order to do them in, if it is an order to do it, like the Ramsey way.

Well, we have the debt snowball method, which means you're paying them off smallest to largest. Okay. So that's one way to do it, to knock it out and make some progress. Okay. Should I add them in the monthly budget? Absolutely. Are any of these federal student loans? No. It was just one big one. It was like $3,000 from my local credit union.

Okay. Do you have any money in savings? Any money? What's your liquid cash total? Liquid cash, about $10,000. Okay. The rest of it is investments. Investments. Are they retirement or non-retirement? Retirement. It's a Roth IRA. Okay. It's all retirement. Okay. And where is the $150,000 going each month? You said you're doing a budget?

No, not really. Okay. We're going to help you with that for sure because you have a great income. There's no reason to be in debt. You can pay cash for all of these things going forward and clean up this mess. Do you feel any shame or guilt about those past decisions and not paying them? I feel guilty, yeah, most definitely, because it should have been done by now. Yeah, I think that's part of the reason you've ignored it. Yeah, right, right, right.

It's just kind of like, let's put it in the junk drawer, and let's not worry about that until someone comes knocking. Right, right, right. You're absolutely right. Well, I think the best thing for your future is to clean up this mess and never look back and never touch debt again. You have a fantastic income. You've got a bright future ahead of you, and those debts, they don't define you. Right. That's not who you are. Tyler's a man of his word. He's a man who pays his bills on time. He's a man who pays cash for things, and so I want you to have that in your mind of the guy that you're becoming and the

identity that you want to have going forward. And part of that is communicating with all the collections agencies and going, hey, listen, I'm sorry I haven't paid this. I'm ready to make good. Please confirm the debt amounts. I need proof of all the debts that I have out there and I will pay them. And then get on a plan. Because right now you've got $10K out of the $19K. If you're following the baby steps, that means $1,000 starter emergency fund, which means you've got $9,000 to throw at this debt. You can cut it in half today.

Okay. And you might be able to negotiate the medical debt down, and there may be statutes of limitations, but it's all going to include you being real intentional and doing your homework and getting on the phone and sending some emails and being proactive. And it's going to feel so good once you've done that, especially it's 19K and you make 150. You can knock this out quickly. And the amount of peace you're going to find from just getting these little ankle biters out of your life, it's like you will be able to just take a deep breath and not feel like they're kind of haunting you. Like you said, they're like in the junk drawer where you don't really want to see them, but you know that they're there and you feel a lot of shame and guilt around

them. Well, I think within easily six months, you could have these completely knocked out and be building your emergency fund and moving on to truly being wealth and just have a completely different outlook on your finances. So Tyler, your take-home pay based on some rough numbers, I'm guessing is about $8,000 or $9,000 when you average it out? Average, yeah. That's about average month. So how quickly can we save up the other $10,000 and knock this out? We're talking three months, Max? Yeah, I was thinking before Thanksgiving.

I like that. That's going to give you a lot to be thankful for. But here's what this means. It means we're pausing investing. It means we're not eating out. We're going to look at every single dollar coming in. We're going to give it a plan. And that's why I want you to start doing a budget. I'm going to gift you every dollar premium, which will connect to your bank. It'll bring all the transactions in. And your job is to have your income on one side and all of your expenses on the other, and you make a plan. And then you're going to take out eating out, take out investments, take out subscriptions for a short season while we clean up this mess. And you're going to be there faster than you know it. Okay. I also have another question. Sure.

Purchasing a house, when should I start that? After paying off everything, right? Pay off everything, then you're going to build a three to six month emergency fund. I would lean towards six months just so you have a lot of financial peace in your life because you haven't had that with all this debt hanging around your neck. And once you have six months of expenses, not income, but expenses, then we can begin the process of saving up a down payment for the house. And I want you to do it the smart way. You're in real estate, so you know this process. Right. But also real estate agents can make some bad decisions too, can't they? They absolutely can. I'm an example. So here's what I want you

to do. Don't buy the craziest, nicest house and don't take all the money the bank will give you. Do it the smart way. I want you to do a 15 year fixed rate conventional mortgage. And I want the payment to be no more than a quarter of your take-home pay. So we mentioned, let's say it's eight grand. We're talking $2,000 a month on a 15-year mortgage. And then that'll dictate how much down payment you'll need to save up. But making 150K, you might be able to do this by the end of next year, have your own place with no debt, with a giant pile of cash in the bank. How would that feel? That was the goal. That's the plan. Absolutely. Dude, we are cheering you on. Hang on the line.

Our friend Austin will pick up on top of every dollar premium. I'm going to gift you Financial Peace University. I want you to watch all of those videos. It's going to give you a lot of language and confidence and education and motivation you need to actually do this stuff, to make the sacrifices for a short season so that you can win for the rest of your life. We are here for you, man. Thanks so much for the call. Thanks for trusting us with this situation. We appreciate you. This is The Ramsey Show. សូវាប់ពីបានប់ពីបានប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពី well august is national make a will month i'm sure you already knew that you've been celebrating for years but if you didn't you're welcome if you don't have an up-to-date will as part of your estate plan, what are you waiting for? You got to knock this out now. But here's the thing. There's more to estate planning than just having a will. Estate planning covers all the documents, plans,

and conversations you need to have in case something happens to you. And no, you don't have to be an eccentric millionaire with an offshore account to have an estate plan. So that means you need an estate plan. And a good estate plan protects your family's future. And it's easy to put yours together with the right tools and we can help. Start by checking out our estate planning guide. It's completely free. It's easy to use and it will help you keep track of everything you need. It'll walk you through which documents to get, like your will if you don't have one, what conversations to have, and where you can go to get more information so you can knock this stuff off of your list. Give yourself and your loved ones peace of mind by figuring this stuff out ahead of time. Download our complete guide

to estate planning for free at ramsaysolutions.com slash estate guide. That's ramsaysolutions.com slash estate guide. Joseph joins us up next. He's in New York City. Joseph, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you very much. How can we help today? My question is regarding a mortgage issue and investing. For the last 10 years or so. I refinanced about 10 years ago and I've been a very disciplined investor since I'm roughly about 16, 18 years old. My financial planner back in 2012 recommended that since I'm such a disciplined

investor, take advantage of having a 30 year mortgage at 3.2% rather than going with a 15-year mortgage. And he recommended that I reinvest what I would have sunken into my home. He considered my house a losing investment, and he said I'd probably be better off investing over the long run the difference between the payments. I've done so over the years, over the last 10 years. And in addition to that, I've built a net equity of close to $3 million. Good for you. So my question to you is, it basically goes against what Dave kind of says with paying off

your house first. Whereas I'm in a position where I have 20 years left on my mortgage, and $1,000 of my mortgage payment every month is not going away if I pay off the mortgage because that's property taxes, something obviously we can't get rid of. But only the $900 principal that I would have left in my pocket at the end of the month, I've been sinking into mutual funds and investments, which since 2012, since I refinanced, have grown roughly at about 12% to 13% average over that time. So my question is, you know, am I wrong for doing such? Or should I be sitting here writing a check out for the balance of my home, which I just kind of have a hard time doing,

taking out of investments to pay my home off? Well, Joseph, you know our answer, and that's to stroke that check and pay off the house today. I don't think you're going to do that, and that's okay. You've done really well for yourself, and you're right. There's a lot of ways to make money. And there's a lot of rich people out there who didn't follow the baby steps. So is there a way to build wealth without following the baby steps? Absolutely. Can you leverage debt and build wealth? You've done it. So you're living proof that it can be done. But the issue is that it always works until it doesn't. And clearly, you're very disciplined, like you've mentioned. You don't seem like the type to get greedy and make poor

decisions when it comes to investing. Is that right? Correct. That's correct. Aside from my mortgage, I do have a car payment as well. I do get 3% interest. And again, I just had a hard time sitting there. I do have the money, but I just had a hard time taking it out of investments because I've been such a disciplined investor. And my historical rates on the market investments have exceeded this 3%. So I'm not one to run into debt. I'm very disciplined. I don't let my credit card go over a thousand dollars without paying it off at the end of the month. But I do carry the car and the mortgage, which I just have, it's a hard pill to swallow

writing those big checks and taking the money out of investments. Sure. Yeah, that is hard because you always want to see that money grow when you're heavy on the investment side. You're like, well, I could be doing better in the market, right? Until the market isn't doing better and you don't have money to cover an emergency. And so that's where things get dicey. How old are you? Where it does come down to the emergency, I do have, you know, income-wise between my wife and I, we make about $350,000 a year. A little bit over $100,000 of it is a guaranteed pension for life. I'm already retired from my first career. Good for you.

I can live off of that alone, but, you know, my new job I'm making over $100,000 with that one as well. So I do have six months in cash in a safe of emergency money, which I don't even think about. I thought about what Dave had said to the woman putting it in her picture frame. I keep it in my safe, which is great. I don't even think about it. So other than the car and the mortgage. You have the money in your safe at home.

Correct. Why not have it in a bank uh well good question well i just because you're so hot on you know i want this money to grow but then you're letting this money not even keep up with inflation over here so i was just confused i was just curious well you know i figured hey 30 40 000 whether it fits in a bank account, I'm not even going to. Well, yeah, it's chump change to you. You guys are doing so great financially, making $350,000 a year. So you can out-earn any level of inflation and poor decisions out there.

So here's the truth, Richard. Joseph, you're an exception to the rule with a crazy income, and you've done well over the years. How old are you? 48. 48. So you've been in this game for 30 years. Yes, I've been in it for 30 years and I started out when I was basically 16 years old with about $500. And as soon as I had the opportunity to max out my first 401k, I did for 25 years. And in addition to that, I sunk as much money as I possibly could make into some mutual funds, discipline taken out of my account every month

for the last 30 years. And that's, it grew into roughly $3 million. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's fantastic. You guys are going to live a great life in retirement and you're not even close to it yet. So here's the thing. I'm looking at your picture and I wish I could meet Joseph and put them next to each other, like Bizarro Joseph, who said, I'm not going to touch debt at 16 and I'm going to put all of my income working for me. I'm never going to go into debt. I'm never going to get a car loan. I'm going to get a 15 year mortgage and pay it off as fast as I can. And I just am very curious if that Joseph would have a higher net worth than $3 million 30 years later.

What do you think? I don't know. I don't feel as if, unless my income was much higher, I don't feel that I could have, or we could have done much better. I feel, you know, I've gotten compliments from my current financial planner. And, you know, she uses me as stories to others who struggle, you know, with debt and so forth. And it's actually a matter of just being disciplined. You know, going out to eat every single night of the week doesn't work. Sure. And I think that's honestly, that's been your saving grace, is you've been so, so disciplined that you've been able to handle it.

I'm not mad at that. You know, it's each his own. Everyone's got their own plan. This is the plan that's worked for me, and the Ramsey plan is the one that's worked for millions of people, and they can do it regardless of their income. So making $350,000, you're going to be okay. You've got a great net worth. You've done

well. But we just believe that the borrower is a slave to the lender. It's an old biblical principle from Proverbs. And because of that, it changes our value system. It changes the way we make decisions. It changes my identity when I decide I'm just going to be a guy who doesn't touch debt. I'm going to be a guy who has the discipline to pay cash and not owe anyone anything. And as Dr. John Deloney says, there's a physical weight with debt. And I already don't sleep well. I can't imagine having debt hanging over my neck on top of that. But I hope you're sleeping well and you've got a great net worth, a great income. You're doing fine. And for every Joseph, you know, there's 10,000 more who are trying to be Joseph, who are making very poor decisions, who are broke. And those are the people I'm trying to help.

You know, I'm here for those that need the help. And you, my friend, you truly don't. You're doing great. But let me just say, every financial advisor is going to tell you to do a 30 over a 15 so that you can give them more money to invest. So a little biased on that side, but more power to you, man. Thanks for the call. A fun discussion. This is The Ramsey show I'm George Camel joined today by Christina Ellis. Hey folks, if you didn't know, we do this show live on the glass and you can come watch us like zoo animals. It's a good time. And I love meeting people. We come out there twice an hour to greet folks, take pictures, sign things, and it's a blast. So if you're in the Nashville area or you plan on heading this way, make it a point to stop

by. We've got free baked goods, free coffee, a free Ramsey Show mug. You can take a picture on the debt-free stage. It's a good time. There's a whole fan experience. You can walk through a timeline wall of the history of this place. We try to make it very inviting to our guests. So that's my invitation to you as we head back to school. The coffee's the best, y'all.

Mostly because we're lonely. Not a lot of people out there today, Christina. But the coffee is good, and it's even better when it's free. Yes. There we go. Open phones this hour, 888-825-5225. Danielle is in Jackson, Mississippi. Danielle, welcome to the show.

Hi. Thanks for having me. Sure. How can we help? So my dad passed away two years ago and gave us a family inheritance of about $115,000. So we are debt-free, and all we have left to pay is our home mortgage, which we got at like a 3% interest. And so being debt-free and having this kind of money, we already have an emergency fund set aside. So we're trying to figure out where to plug this money in.

Should we put it on our home to begin the payoff for it, or should we make some investments? We're just trying to see where to go from here. How much do you have left on your home? About $193,000. And do you have kids? We do. We have four. All right. Party. What ages? Six, five, three, and a two-month-old.

That is quite the party. You got your hands full. I'm surprised you had time to make this call. Well, I got my five- and six-year-old baby sitting the baby. Oh, good, good, good. Okay. Well, there's only three things you can do with money, and I think it's amazing that you were left this legacy and this blessing. But I am so sorry for your loss. Thank you. So when it comes to the baby steps, you guys are in four through six currently. So that means we're investing 15% of our income into retirement.

Are you currently doing that? Yes. Okay. Next would be saving for college, and so you could put a chunk of that. Maybe you throw, you know, $5,000 or $10,000 for each kid into a 529 or an ESA. That could be an option to kickstart that. Do you have anything saved for college currently? We haven't started that yet, no.

Okay. Are there any upcoming repairs, renovations, car upgrades you guys need to make? My husband may need to make some type of upgrade on a vehicle because we're a one-income family, so he's our workhorse. We might be needing some type of small used something to get him back and forth work soon. Okay. So I would get a very reasonable commuter vehicle. This is not the time to get the Ford F-150 new on the lot because you got this pile of cash.

Right. So you could upgrade the car, put some towards college. If you wanted to fully fund a Roth IRA for the year, you could do that as well. And then whatever's left over, I'm throwing at the mortgage. Okay. So that's how I see it. Just filter it through those baby steps. And, of course, there's only three things you can do with money in general,

which is give, save, and spend. You guys already have the emergency fund, and you're already on track for investing. And so you could give a little as well. If you're part of a local church, you could tithe some of that money, or if there's an offering that's something you're passionate about, you could give to that. But otherwise, maybe you'd take some of it and spend it. Would your dad have wanted that?

Do you enjoy it? Well, he was very much a debt-free guy. He was all about not owing anybody. And so I'm kind of wanting to keep that legacy alive, which we don't owe anybody. And throw it to the house. Make daddy proud. Awesome. Well, thank you all so much. Absolutely. Thank you so much for the call. Yeah, that's a beautiful way to honor him. Just knowing that that's something that he valued and treasured and for you to keep that legacy alive is amazing. One other thought is just making sure, I don't know where you are

with your emergency fund if you have three or six months, but just making sure too, that that's really beefed up being a one income family. Just making sure that you have that extra layer of security so that, you know, you can make sure if a big thing happens that you avoid that debt. And with four kids. With four kids. Who knows? That's a lot of life that's going to happen with those kids and they're all going to go to college debt-free. That's my hope for them, and I think you guys are on track to do that. And pretty soon you're not going to have a mortgage. I mean, that will really kick-start this journey,

and they might be debt-free within a year or two completely. That's beautiful and just such an amazing way to make your dad proud. Yes. Thanks so much for the call, Danielle. Josh joins us up next in Birmingham. Josh, welcome to the show. Hey, thanks for taking my call. Absolutely.

I'm calling because my wife and I just are in the early stages of the baby steps and just got introduced to the Ramsey stuff. Welcome to the club. Thank you. We just wanted to call and kind of see about some fundamentals, like some first steps, some practical ways to get us jump started on this. Absolutely. So how much debt do you guys have? We've got about right at, right at 50 to 55. Okay. What kind of debt? Uh, 11,000 is my student loans. Uh, 20, 26,000 is a car and we've got 4,000 in credit card.

And I think that's about it. Okay, it's not adding up to $55,000. Looks like there's something missing there. I'm getting about $41,000 based on the numbers you just threw at me. Is there another debt in the picture? Not that I can think of right now. Okay. What's your income? So I just changed to a new job, and I'm going to be making about $45,000 initially a year,

but then in about two months, they're going to transition me, and the low end is going to be about $58,000. And then my wife makes about $12,000 to $15,000 a year working part-time. Okay. Is she home with the kiddos? Yeah, when she's not at work. Okay. How many kids you got? Two. We just had you got? Two. We just had twin girls last September. Oh, that's sweet. Do you guys have another car?

It is, but yes, it's paid off, though. What's that car worth? I paid $4,000 for it, and I probably wouldn't get that out of it. It's just my get-to-work car. Okay. I'm just looking at that car loan going, that feels like a lot of car for your income. And I'm wondering if you could sell it and make a net profit

and clean up this debt a lot faster and get something more reasonable right now. I took it by a dealership last weekend, and they valued it about $4,000 lower than what we owe. Sounds like a dealership. Yeah. I would be checking Facebook Marketplace, Carvana, Vroom, Craigslist, Autotrader, and maybe Kelley Blue Book as well and get a real value for that

because the dealership is trying to make money, and so they're trying to get it at a deal so they can sell it for more and make profit. So that might be an option for you, but you're asking for tips on how to do this plan. And the number one tip is to stop the bleeding and don't go into debt anymore. Number two is to get on a tight budget every single month. And I'm going to help you with that by gifting you every dollar premium, which will connect to your bank account. And number three, get your wife on the same page. Are you guys pumped up about getting out of debt? Yeah. Yeah. We both kind of recognize that there's a problem and we want to be able to set up our girls to go to school. And I listen to the show often. That means you have a strong why,

my friend. You look into those little girls' eyes and say they're never going to know debt as they grow up and they're going to watch their dad and their mom sacrifice to avoid owing anyone anything. And so hang on the line. Austin's going to pick up. We're going to gift you every dollar premium to start your written budget. Do that together, you and your wife, and I'm going to gift you Financial Peace University. Watch all of those videos and stop going into debt. Make a plan using the debt snowball. List your debts, smallest to largest. Let's get our incomes up as much as we can and call us back when you are

completely debt-free and do a debt-free scream. Can't wait for it. Thanks so much for the call, Josh. Appreciate you listening. Appreciate you joining this club of weirdos who believe that you can live without payments this is the ramsey show Our scripture of the day, Matthew 6, 33 and 34. But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be provided to you. So do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own. Ain't that the truth?

That advice holds true today. Mark Twain once said, The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man who lives fully is prepared to die at any time. Some rock and roll words from Mark Twain there. Caitlin joins us up next in West Palm Beach. Caitlin, welcome to the show. Hi, thank you for taking my call.

Absolutely. What's going on? So I am 26. I'm finally being able to move out of my parents' place, or at least attempting to. I own my own mobile grooming dog business. I'm trying to sell and move out of the state to get away from my helicopter parents. Do you have to go that far? This is a situation. I'm running.

Oh, my goodness. Okay. So I don't know how much I should be saving. Sorry, you're breaking up on us, Caitlin. You got a bad connection there. Oh. Can you hear me? Yes, that's better.

Okay. I'm just not sure what I should do when I don't know how much my bills are going to be. I don't know. I'm going into a state that I have no friends at. Why are you moving to that state? I'm trying to move over to Chattanooga, but I'm trying to get out of Florida. Why Chattanooga? Because that's where I used to, I had a friend there.

So we're reconnecting there. But it just seems more of a nicer place and a little less expensive than Florida, too, and Palm Beach County. Okay. Yeah, we're just curious. Out of all the places, I mean, we're big fans of Tennessee. Chattanooga is wonderful. But it just seems like you're just running. You're like, Chattanooga is the place, and I don't know why because I don't know anyone there.

Yeah, I have that one friend there, but that's about it. Okay, And you're going to restart your mobile grooming business over there? Is that the plan? No, I'm actually selling everything and I'm getting my CDL and going truck driving. So completely different. Wow. What kind of eat, pray, love journey are you on, Caitlin? What's going on in your life? This is a complete 180. Well, my parents are very, they were helicopter parents, so I always worked for either my dad's company, and then I started my own, but they would never let me get out of the house type of thing. Well, I just want you running to something instead of away from something. I want you to be excited about the move instead of an urgent,

I got to get out of here, and I got to move across the country and switch careers. That's just a lot of stress to deal with. Why do you want to be a truck driver? A little bit better money than what I'm at now. How much do you charge for mobile grooming? What's the average cost for a dog? Anywhere from $60 to $140. So $140 a dog and it's not enough to cover

the bills based on how many clients you have? Is that the issue? Clients and also overhead with gas prices, the insurance, the van payment itself is $1,700 a month. Okay. How long have you been thinking about making this transition? About two years now. Okay. And do you, how do you think your parents will react to it? I'm not sure. So you haven't broken the news to them that you're going to head out?

No, I'm just kind of going to say Merry Christmas. I'm gone. Wow. Well, you asked us how much money you need saved and you don't have much clarity on what your bills are going to be, but are you in debt right now? Yeah, I'm about 110110,000 in debt, but when I sell the business, it should be about $120,000 that I get out. So I'll have at least $10,000 through that and on top of about a $10,000 that I can save. Are you sure you're going to find a buyer to give you $120,000 in cash to buy a mobile grooming business? I already have somebody lined up for December. Wow, that's fantastic.

Okay, so if I'm in your shoes, that debt is gone and I have $10,000 in the bank. This was your get-out-of-jail-free card. Yeah. And that's exactly what's going to prepare you for whatever season is next, is having no debt and a pile of money, regardless of what your bills are. Do you think that about $20,000 should be good going into something like this? Yes. I have no experience with it.

Yeah, I mean, you're going to have moving costs, so just look at logistically. Yeah. I'm going to have to rent somewhere. There may be a deposit involved. I'm going to have moving costs. I'm going to need to buy some things for the new place, depending on what I take with me and what I don't. And so look into all of that, and we've got to figure out what does the education look like to get the CDL? Have you done that yet?

Yes, I already know where I'm going to be going to it before we course. How much does that cost? About $4,000. Okay, so we're going to cash flow that. Yes. So we need at least $4,000 plus our emergency fund, plus moving expenses, plus, plus, plus. So I would start making a list of what that looks like and see how quickly i can save that up so that i'm not in a bind when

we move and we go oh gosh i don't have the four grand oh gosh i don't have the moving expenses okay but i do want you to think on it because i want you to think long and hard about just all of the decisions and take a pause and a deep breath and go is this the right place is this Is this the right career path? And think long and hard about it. I'm going to give you some tools to help you with that. Number one is own your past, change your future. That's from Dr. John Deloney. And it sounds like you've had quite the struggle at home with the parents. And you got to deal with that because you go with you. And so if we don't deal with this trauma, it's going to resurface wherever we find ourselves and whatever career we go. So that book's going to help with that. And then on the career side, I'm going to send you our

friend Ken Coleman's book from paycheck to purpose, which will help you figure out what that sweet spot is for you between your talent, your passion and your mission. And maybe it's truck driving. But from what I heard from you, you were stepping into it because of the pay bump. And I'm, I'm guaranteeing you're a talented person. You're dealing with people. You've run a business. There's a lot of things you can do. And I want to make sure that we put all the options

on the table before we jump into this. Yeah, you've just been through such a huge transition and you're going to go into a huge transition. And I would just encourage you to breathe. I know it's a lot. It's hard when you're dealing with a traumatic past, when you're dealing with helicopter parents, when there's a lot going on. But like George said, own your past, change your future. Take the time to invest in yourself in this process. I know that you're going to be plowing ahead and that's, you know, you're seeking a

healthier environment or space where you can grow. But make sure in that process that you take time for you to really work through your past, to work through everything that you've been through. Because a lot of times when we're, you know, mucked up with a really messy past, it's hard to really see clearly and to know what to do in your future, especially if you're moving forward out of fear or out of trauma, you know, that can be really hard. So maybe even before you make such big decisions, just take a little bit of time to do some soul searching and to take a pause to deal with some of what you've been through. Okay. And truck driving is a hard business. Have you talked to anyone in the truck driving

business to see what that's like? From what I gathered, you're breaking up, but it sounded like your uncle's in the business and you've spoken to him. I might do a little more digging, talk to a few more people because long-term, that's a hard, hard thing to do for a long period of time. And I want you to sink your teeth into something that you can put the next 10, you're 26 years old. You've got another 35 years of your career. And I want you to pour it into something that really gives you meaning and purpose and joy that you can sustain. And that might be truck driving.

I don't know. But it sounds like so far we're just running away and just looking at the next thing. What can I do? Where can I go? And it's out of desperation instead of out of intentionality. And we say no one makes good decisions when they're panicked or drunk. And you sound panicked. I don't think you're drunk.

So that's good news. We got one for two here. But I want you to do it with wisdom and intentionality and with some pause and slow down. And so hang on the line. Austin is going to pick up and he's going to send you Own Your Past, Change Your Future by Dr. John Deloney and From Paycheck to Purpose by Ken Coleman. And I think that's good. Anything else? We can just keep giving her things all day long, Christina. I think that's great. And then also just in this process, make a plan, like especially when you're dealing with trauma and fear and just all the confusion of leaving a really messy situation.

Facts are your friends. Take the time to kind of lay things out. Make a written budget. You know, we can gift her every dollar premium to really get... Perfect. That'll be the trifecta. There we go. Get everything written on paper so that you can see it clearly and kind of get through the confusion of all of it. Love it. Thank you so much for the call, Caitlin. Wishing the best for you.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. My thanks to my fantastic co-host, Christina Ellis, all the folks in the booth, Austin and Ben and James and Zach and Andrew and Bobby and you, America. We appreciate you listening in. Until next time, spend wisely, save intentionally, and give generously. and Ben and James and Zach and Andrew and Bobby and you, America. We appreciate you listening in. Until next time, spend wisely, save intentionally, and give generously.

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