The Ramsey Show - App - When Discussing My Job Growth Plan, Should I Bring Up Salary? (Hour 1)

Episode Date: February 24, 2021

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's The Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author and host of The Ken Coleman Show, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. If Ken Coleman's in the house, that means you are more than free to bring your career questions, your questions about job hunts, your questions about landing in a position that you have passion for,

as well as get paid well for for and all that kind of stuff. So Ken's here to help. And you. See, you've got a good opinion on that stuff, too. Dude, I've got an opinion about everything. I know. And I'm an expert on my opinion. Yeah, but we get calls on the Ken Coleman Show about toxic culture.

What do I do? I've got a jerk boss, but I'm paying off debt. I mean, Dave gives great perspective, too. Well, you've got personal experience with that. No, stop it. Not true. But so many people are going, hey, can I pay off debt and switch jobs? Can I change careers while in the baby steps?

So Dave and I can take that on as well. We can tag team. Yeah, a lot of leadership junk out there as well that affects people's, hey, is this the right place? I'm doing the right work. Maybe I'm in the wrong place. So there's a lot of stuff we can take on spouse hey my spouse is is stuck how do i encourage the spouse so a lot of questions we can answer uh money and job related doing that meaningful work we're all here for you yeah the phone number 888-825-5225 and kelly has stepped out in

madison which is actually uh ken's Ken's assistant producer and phone screener. So she actually knows how to screen calls for Ken. She can actually answer the questions as well. She's heard them all. Kelly can answer all my questions for sure. Isn't that the truth? And if you don't believe me, ask her. All right.

Genevieve is with us to start this hour in Los Angeles. Hi, Genevieve. How are you? I'm doing good. I'm doing good. I'm doing good. So happy to be on the call with you guys. You too. What's up in your world?

All right. So we have a duplex. We bought it about seven years ago, and we owe about $287 on it. I guess I should start by saying I'm on baby step two. I have about $40,000 left to pay off in the combination of student loans and credit card debt that I refinanced. And we've been aggressively paying it for the last two years, about $60,000 has already been paid off. And we were looking to refinance our duplex for a lower rate and a lower payment. And our loan officer just told us,

you know, what have you thought about refinancing pulling the cash out and reinvesting it so i'm wondering if that's a good idea it has a positive cash flow right now and um that's kind of where i'm at i'm like do i continue paying off my debt or go ahead and reinvest yeah well let me just tell you if you ask a loan officer if you should borrow more money, that's like asking a dog if it's hungry. All right. I had a pug dog and it would eat itself until it died if you didn't take the food away from it. And that's a loan officer. They will loan you money from today on.

And they always have a good idea on how to raise their commission. Yeah. So, no. No, you're not trying to get into debt, darling. You're trying to get out, remember? Yeah, yeah, and it's funny because we come from a family of entrepreneurs and investors, and I'm just like, I want to be zero. But, of course, you know, temptation is like, you know,

can we reinvest, you know, later on? Yeah, well, the question you have to ask yourself is, what's the shortest distance between where you are and wealthy? Is it borrowing more money on the duplex and investing that, or is it getting out of debt? And the actual data says it's getting out of debt. Okay. That's the shortest distance between where you are and wealthy. And so if we're going to get out of debt, because it's the shortest distance between where you are and wealthy.

And so if we're going to get out of debt because it's the shortest distance between where you are and wealthy, then getting into more debt would be oxymoronic, wouldn't it? Yes, absolutely. So what's your household income and how quick are you going to pay off this $40,000 with your cash flow? Oh, within the year. I like you. That's awesome. I like you. That's awesome. I like you.

So just refinance that duplex, put it on as short a term as you can put it on, as low an interest rate as you can put it on, and let's get that duplex paid off now too. Boom, just like that. One more loan officer smacks silly. I've been doing this 30 years, and it never gets old. Yeah, what is the score, Dave Ramsey, 1 million to zero on that one? You know what, Dave?

Seriously, I want to ask you a psychology question there, because what happens is she's doing the right thing. She's working the baby steps. She's paid off $60,000, 40 to go. Within the year, they're debt-free, living like nobody else. And she calls a loan officer. They do what they do. Not demonizing, but they're doing what they're doing. I will.

I know you will. And it changes the narrative. So we have to switch the narrative back and go, no, I called to save money, which is going to help me get out of debt faster, because if I'm saving money on the current mortgage payment, it means more money towards the debt snowball. And that narrative just gets all jumbled in their minds. Yeah. It is human nature, and it is really actually intelligent in a way to look for the easiest route.

We want the easiest route. Right. And you really should. Why would you take the hard route if there's an easy one? I mean, it's intelligent. It's good to consider. It's intelligent to do that. Yeah, you want to take the easiest route.

But in search of the easiest route, we tend to, it's all of us, tend to look for a pill. If I could just take that get out of debt pill, I'd be out of debt. If I could take that lose weight pill, I'd lose weight. If I could take that make my marriage happy pill, we don't want to do the stuff. No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but it yields a harvest of righteousness. Human nature is to look for the easiest route, and that leads us, if we're not careful, over the precipice into the get-rich-quick mindset. There's a shortcut that everybody knows about but me. That's right. And I think I found it.

That's the trap. There's not one. Yeah. There's no shortcut to any place that's worth going. And that's the trap, Dave. It is a trap. The progress. Oh, progress is smart.

So the very thing that's not smart, it's dumb to do that, take on more debt. It feels smart because it's progress. Well, it feels like it's a shorter cut. Yes. It's a shortcut. I'm getting there quicker. Oh, that's smart. It's an easier route.

Yeah. Because, oh, look, I feel better. All that debt's gone. I don't have to think about it. Instead, I've got to crunch and run and grind through the rest of the year. But then when it's gone, it's really gone. Because, see, here's an interesting fact about the math on this. You cannot borrow your way out of debt.

That is true. Let that one sink in. Yeah. That'll get you there in a minute if you keep digging you can't get out of a hole while digging out the bottom and so you can move your debt to your home your duplex your you can move it around that's what debt consolidation does it allows you to feel like you did something but the debt is still there it just has a new name that's right it you just moved it. That's all you did.

So please don't act like you invented fire, okay? You didn't do something that was really – but that's why I call it debt consolidation. Here's how we know that this is true. Eighty-eight percent of the people that take out a debt consolidation loan to, in quotes, air quotes, pay off their debt, which it wasn't paid off. It was just moved. 88%, that's 9 out of 10 times, end up not changing their habits and running up new debt over there. So they move the credit cards over onto the second mortgage,

and now they run up new credit cards because they don't change the habits. 88, 9 out of 10 times. But it felt like you were doing something. Oh, yeah, very smart. This is a smart move. I'm going to get a lower interest rate. I'm going to get a lower interest rate. I'm going to be better off with a lower interest rate. eight nine out of ten times but it felt like you were doing something oh yeah very smart this is smart i'm getting a lot of interest rate a lot of interest rate it's all about the interest rate it's not about the fact that i can't freaking stop my spending like i'm in congress and so and that's not genevieve this is just a thing this is the day this is the Dayburn. This is the Ramsey Show.

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As we talk about your careers, your money, your life, anything you want to talk about. Speaking of careers, here at Ramsey Solutions, we are trying to do something pretty radical we want to transform so many lives that disruption spreads like wildfire across our country imagine a world where it's weird to have a student loan where the majority of people pay cash for their cars where the credit card has become the cigarette of the financial world where living and working in a job that you love, in a career field that you love and prospering is normal instead of statistically, philosophically unusual. At Ramsey Solutions, that's why we have a thousand people at this company working together to create digital products and all kinds of goods and services to help people transform their lives with the goal of disrupting this toxic culture. And if you don't think that the culture in America is toxic, you haven't come outside lately. If you want to join us on that crusade, we're currently on the hunt for many software engineers,

Ruby on Rails, Java, C Sharp, front-end technologies. If you're a UX designer, we need you. SEO, content marketing specialists, we'd love to talk with you. Digital designers, we're there, baby. Just about anything. We've got about 360 positions to fill this year. We are exploding here. We're just finishing up a new building next door, and that means there's room for people.

It's that simple. So find out about all these opportunities at DaveRamsey.com. Click on the right hand side button. It says Dave's Hiring. If you're a senior level developer, how about this? When you teach people and mentor people and coach people to write code, they're writing code that changes people's lives. Not that's going into a black hole. It actually matters. Oh, and by the way we go home at six o'clock we don't work you 80 hours a week we have this weird idea that you should actually

be a good dad and a good mom and be home with your kids and uh that's really weird if you're in the technology world because they try to kill people in the technology world it's almost like first year law students isn't it they just churn through them yeah churn and burn baby all right ashley is with us in sacramento hey ashley what's up hi how you doing great how can we help um so i just have a question so my husband and i were we're debt free we luckily were able to get through school without any debt. And my husband just landed his first job out of school. He's making some good money. So we opened up with his 401K and then also opened up a Roth IRA.

And we've been contributing a little bit. But I know you recommend 15% to go towards retirement, but we're also trying to save for a down payment. So I was wondering, do you still recommend the 15% while we're trying to save for that, or is it okay to do a little less? Okay. How old are you guys? I'm 21, and he's 24.

Okay. Well, first let's establish you've got some time. There is not a rule that says you go to hell if you don't buy a house by 25. Okay. You're going to be okay. You got a little time to work on this. You don't have to panic. You're going to be just fine. And you've done a really good job so far. Very well done. All right. Two things. One is we teach a really good job so far. Very well done. All right.

Two things. One is we teach a process called the baby steps. One is $1,000 saved. You've done that. Two is debt-free. You've done that. Three is a fully funded emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. Have you got that?

Yes, we do. Good. Excellent. Okay. And what's your household income? So he's making $60,000. I'm still job searching. Cool.

So what do you think you'll be making when you land something? Probably around $30,000. Okay, so you're going to have roughly $100,000 income, $90,000 to $100,000, right in there. And you're just beginning your career, so it'll go up. That's excellent. Okay, now we teach after people are at Baby Step 3. They have their emergency fund and they're just beginning your career, so it'll go up. That's excellent. Okay, now we teach after people are at Baby Step 3, they have their emergency fund and they're debt-free. If they are ready to buy a home at that point,

then you would save up your down payment. If you want to put your retirement savings on hold temporarily, we call that Baby Step 3B. Baby Step 3 being the emergency fund, 3BB being save for the down payment on your home. Okay? Okay. And if you want to sit out of retirement for two years or three years and pile up cash very rapidly. Now, the other thing I'm hearing is, I think I'm hearing you're not on a written budget.

And you guys need to get a detailed written game plan because you would have known exactly what was going on. You've got general concepts, and again, you've done a really good job. But I want you to get in a detailed written budget. Jump on EveryDollar. It's an app you can download for free and start to figure out how to put that budget together or look at a free trial at Ramsey Plus where you can use the every dollar premium budget version and get through the classes as well. Julie is with us. Julie is in Nashville. Hi, Julie. How can we help? Yes, I have a question. So for accreditation at my job, the mean salary for my position is about

12K more than I'm making. And I have about two years before I can make the next level. And I just wondered if I, you know, talking about her can say, don't go ask for a raise, but how you can develop and grow. And so if I go and ask her a growth plan, should I mention like, you know, I know that because the tables are posted, like I'm less than this, that I'm at the current salary, you know, at my current position. I do know that I, for my location, I make more money in the area than, you know, other jobs in the area. Okay.

Yeah, so I didn't quite understand that last part because I think it's got to be industry-specific. So if you're talking about industry-specific. Right, it's industry-specific. Okay. But what you're saying is the median across the nation, you're about $12,000 lower. But not in your area. No, but not in're saying is the median across the nation, you're about 12,000 lower. But not in your area. No, but not in your area. No.

For my area, I'm actually higher. Okay. But for my specific company, I'm actually 12K less than what they post for my title. Okay. Okay, well, okay, so that's great information. And so you're right. I want the rest of the audience to hear this, Dave. I don't like people going in and asking for a raise.

It puts your leader in a very awkward position if there's been no conversation there. And so at Ramsey Solutions, we've got a wonderful, wonderful rhythm around this, around growing. And that is we have a very clear KRA, key results area. It's one page for everybody, including the personalities. And so there's clear goals. There's clear boundaries for this is the work that I'm responsible for. These are the results I'm responsible for. And then we meet every year, an annual meeting. Of course, there's meetings all the time around here with our leaders. But here's the deal. I don't want you to

ask for a raise. I want you to sit down and say, hey, I want to grow. And I know that I need to grow my skills. I'd like to know from you if we could get together. Don't put them on the spot. Say, hey, I'd like to have a meeting soon where we talk about a growth plan that includes me adding some skills that you think maybe I need to add, strengthening some areas where I'm good, but I could be better to add more value to the organization. And then you want to say, hey, I want to do those things. I want to be measured on that growth. And as a result, I'd like to see how that may lead to additional responsibilities

and more influence in my position or in the company. And when I'm growing professionally, then that leads to a natural conversation of growing my income. And so that's how I like people to bring the leader in, let the leader have some ownership and speak into your growth. And I think because you're in a situation where you're paid,

you could go in with information and say, hey, here's what the median is. And I've done some research on this, but I don't like bringing that into the conversation until there's a growth plan that's agreed upon. Because here's what I know, Dave, in a healthy organization with healthy leadership, they will respond the right way.

And they'll say, sure, we can do that. And if they don't have the built-in systems that we have at Ramsey Solutions, this can develop that. And healthy leadership will accept that and figure that out if they don't already do it. And then the conversation, Dave, is... Is it okay off the back end of that conversation to say, because I noticed that I'm $12,000 below the posted amount, and I want to know what I need to do to be worthy of that? That's it. You bring that up after you say, hey, I want to grow and make myself more valuable to the company with your measurement.

Yeah. That's buy-in. I do want them in that conversation to recognize that she's being paid less than their stated amount. Yes. Absolutely. I would want to know that as the leader. But you do that in the actual meeting that we described, not setting up the meeting. Off the back of the conversation.

In the actual meeting. You're not opening the conversation with that. You're closing the conversation with that. Yep, that's it. I got it. Okay. Yeah, because I would want to know that as the leader so I could make the adjustment. You need to.

Because I would go, oh, crap, I didn't realize that. That's exactly right. Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today. This is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Michael is with us. Michael's in Boise, Idaho. Hey, Michael, how are you? I'm better than I deserve.

How about yourself? Better than I deserve, sir. How can I help? I got a quick question for you. My wife and I are in baby steps four, five, and six, and I've got some savings bonds that my granddad gave me for my birthdays and Christmases growing up as a kid. They totaled about $900, so we're not talking about a lot of money here, but I do want to honor my granddad with what I do with this money. So I have a two-part question. First would be,

Dave, do you have a guiding principle on how to honor financial gifts given by family members who've passed away. Well, I always just, it's a general concept. I always just think, well, when I do this, is he going to be in heaven smiling? That's good. That's really good. And so, you know, it might be that he told you this is for your college, and it didn't ever end up getting used for college for whatever reason, and instead he hated debt and you use it to pay off a credit card.

Well, he'd be smiling, even though it wasn't the original intent, but it matches with who he is or was, right? Right. You know, so my granny used to give us savings bonds all the time for our kids' college. And, of course, they don't pay squat. And so as soon as I could get a hold of them and she she bless her heart she believed in savings bonds and she was religious she gave those fifty dollar hundred dollar two hundred dollars to pop they're coming in for the kids and as soon as i could cash them out i cashed

them out and put them in mutual fund and uh bless her heart i told her the truth i did not lie to her she would say how's those savings bonds doing i said they're they're doing great, Granny. Because they are. They're now in a mutual fund, so they're actually freaking producing something. But I didn't give her the details. I just told her the truth. They're doing great now. Because her intent was to help the kids have some money for college, and her intent was what I did with them.

I didn't go buy a steak at a steakhouse for myself that would not have made her smile right and then i would have had to lie to her or tell her the truth and she'd been mad or whatever but you know but but the point is you know what's the right thing to do and and you know that's my guiding principle on honoring whether they're alive or dead but certainly where there's inheritance what it does it keeps you from doing something childish like if your grandpa leaves you a hundred thousand dollars in exxon stock and you go buy a used lamborghini well that's dumber than a rock yeah you know and that ain't gonna make him smile because he can't spell lamborghini i can just tell you that so you know i know i can't that's two of us michael. Well, I mean, that's the whole thing.

So the point is just because when you get an inheritance, you kind of have, like you said, it's $900. It's not a lot of money. But put a couple zeros on it. It's 90 grand now, okay? And so if it's 90 grand, then, you know, what you have is you have a little bit of that lotto moment. Like, woo-hoo-hoo-hoo! Yeah. Game on, baby!

Yeah. Road trip! You know, and you start thinking about what you're going to do with this money that's really irresponsible and immature. Yeah. I got a thought here. Michael, I'm just going to give you this and you take this. If it were me, because of your financial status,

baby step four, five, and six, you're rocking it. $900 is not going to make that big a difference. It's not like it would take care of a baby step uh or excuse me a a debt in the debt snowball i i would ask yourself or maybe talk to your mom and dad what if you knew him well what what did he love what fired his soul up was there a cause was there an activity that that he really loved and if it were me i i would do something really cool or consider doing something really cool with that nine hundred dollars around that. Because I heard in your voice you want to honor him, and you're doing such good with your finances.

$900 doesn't make a huge difference. You can use it in your baby steps and keep on rolling. Or you could do something cool here, Dave. Let's just say he was into hunting or he was into woodwork or something, and you could bless somebody maybe who's starting out or uh or or you know generosity move generosity in the in the spirit of your grandfather he would smile from heaven on that amen erica's with us in fort lauderdale hey erica what's up hi dave hi ken uh first of all thank you so much dave you changed me in my husband's life no you did i'm proud of you oh thank you um so my husband's life. No, you did. I'm proud of you. Oh, thank

you. Um, so my husband and I, um, we, our, our question is whether we keep our house or not. We, um, we actually are in ministry. We, uh, live overseas, um, right now in the Caribbean. And, and basically, uh, we are, we have a house in Fort Lauderdale, and we're fully supported by churches. But the thing with our house right now is we're planning to stay where we are maybe for the next five to nine years. We've come to that decision. So we have this house in Fort Lauderdale, and it needs a new roof. Insurance isn't paying for it, so we can't go through that. It's South Florida, so taxes are really high

and we're learning about all this we didn't realize this with taxes and everything um and so we're just considering selling it yes um yes okay today wow this thing's not a blessing it's a curse it's not bringing you peace yeah that's true it's not it's not adding to your life can you make money on it yeah they'll make money on it you can make money on it can't you when you sell it yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah i just wanted to confirm that i mean put some money in the bank to ensure that to ensure that your missionary endeavor doesn't run up underfunded at some point yeah and all the missionaries keep this is Yeah. And all the missionaries keep, this is the problem, is all the missionaries tell us, and we just witnessed it,

don't sell your house. Like, this is the thing with missionaries, they don't have anything when they go back. So they're like, don't sell your house, whatever you do. So I think a big part of us is like, if we sell it, you know, we don't want that money that... Well, I disagree with that sentiment, and I have told missionaries that for 30 years. That is a wrong statement.

You should sell your house. If you're going to be gone five years, you should sell your house. Take the proceeds and take whatever you would have spent on a house payment and invest it in good mutual funds so that you have a nice house fund to buy a home when you come home. Yeah. But the idea that you need to keep your property and try to be a long-distance landlord while you're trying to serve Jesus in the Caribbean, that is just dadgum hard.

That just adds pain to your life, not blessings. Yeah. Scarcity versus abundance. You're not going to be homeless when you come back. Yeah. Especially if you do it yourself. But you need to have a plan to have be homeless when you come back. Yeah, you need to have a plan to have a home when you come back. Now that part, that's what's driving them to make the statement

of never sell your house because they're afraid they're not going to have the money to buy a house because they've never saved anything. So if you don't plan to have a home when you come back by investing, then you've made a real mistake. But you need to plan by continuously investing to be ready to return. Let's run the numbers out on that, Dave, because I think it was great advice. I mean, just a ballpark number. Let's say they make $100,000 on their house or $150,000 and they put it in a mutual fund. She said they're going to be there five to nine years. She puts in a good mutual fund.

That becomes that housing fund. If all of their other expenses on the mission field are covered, that becomes a sizable down payment. It'll double. Yeah. It'll double in about seven years. That's a sizable down payment. It'll double. Yeah. It'll double in about seven years. That's the narrative, again, that's not happening. Yeah.

But if you take that money and spend it to live on the mission field, and you have zero money and zero house, and you come off, that's the fear that has created this thing, oh, never sell your house when you go on the mission field. Now, if you're going on the mission field for six months, that's a different thing. Of course. These people are going to be gone five seven years ten years whatever so that's a different that changes the equation as well kimberly is in san bernardino california but we're going to come to her after this commercial break i just looked up and saw the um saw the

clock creeping up on us homeowners insurance can be one of those set it and forget it kind of things when you first bought your home you may have just gone with whatever coverage the lender had or the realtor suggested or whatever. You need to get your insurance re-quoted. Go to one of our endorsed local provider insurance agents. They are independent brokers. They will shop among several different companies and get you the best possible price on your home or auto or both. The average person coming in to this saves about $700 a year. And the quote to get it, how much does it cost to get a quote?

Nothing. It's free. So text the word HOME to 33-789. You need to continuously check on your insurances to make sure you're not being overcharged. One of the things she was just talking about was the cost of insurance in South Florida. It's very real. So text HOME to 33-789. HOME to 33-789. Thank you. Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today.

You can hear the Ken Coleman show on Sirius XM as a podcast. We're on about 75 radio stations around America, so be sure you tune in. He speaks every day to people all over America about how to get and keep the best career path that puts you into what he calls your sweet spot, living your passion. Kimberly is with us in San Bernardino, California. Hi, Kimberly. How are you? Good. Hi, Dave. I had a question.

Me and my husband are kind of debating. Our question is, should my husband take a new job? And depending on the retirement, we don't know a lot about retirement, so we don't know the questions that we should ask. He currently has a job where he has a Tier 1 and Tier 2 that he pays into. He works for the railroad. So the new job, from what we know, that he was offered does not offer retirement, but they match 6%. I don't know what questions to ask to make a wife's choice. Okay.

Well, I mean, if they have a 401K that they match in 6%, that sounds like a fairly normal company-type position versus the railroad, which has a very unusual retirement system. Okay. Okay. So what does your husband make at the railroad which has a very unusual retirement system okay okay so what does your husband make at the railroad he you want to know hourly no annually okay i have the paper in front of me so annually um i don't okay so annually shows, I don't think it has one here. So I'm thinking around $65,000. What does he bring home? What does he bring home a month or a week or whatever?

Okay, so he gets paid every two weeks about $21,000 after 10. Yes. $2,100, and so $4,200 a month, so $48,000 a year, and so he's making about $60,000, $65,000, depending on what's coming out of his check, okay? Correct. Okay. Now, what's the new job pay? $25 an hour.

So whatever that is times 80 times a month. I don't know what that is. But $50,000? Okay, thank you. A guy in the lobby just helped me. All right. Okay. I don't know what that is. But 50 grand? Okay, thank you. A guy in the lobby just helped me. All right. So you're going to make about the same or a little bit more at the new job. Okay.

Right? Okay. Now, the question here, though, is how old is he? My husband's 30. Okay. So when he's 60, old like me, what's he going to be glad he spent the last 30 years doing? Which one of these? I think saving for retirement and paying off his debt.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. That wasn't what I was talking about. Ken, this is yours. Yeah. So here's the thing. We've got the numbers right. He's making 60 to 65 now on the railroad. This new job is going to pay him about 50. We've got the numbers right. He's making $60,000 to $65,000 now on the railroad. This new job is going to pay him about $50,000.

So it's a pay cut if we got those numbers right. So that's the first issue. But what Dave was asking is, why does this guy want this job? Why does your husband want the job? Does he want it because he loves the work and it's work that matters to him in the long term? He hates the railroad. Yeah. Why does he want the new job?

What's the reason for the new job? Well, with the railroad, he can't go up anymore. So that's the reason for the new job with the railroad he can't go up anymore so that's the top okay good so he's capped out yes correct so with the new job he does start off at 25 but after three to six months he goes back to 32 there we go now now we're moving in the right direction so this is a temporary pay cut for the opportunity to advance and not just financially but also professionally. What would he be doing at the new job? So far what I know, it's called Operator D. So it's Borax. I don't know if you guys have ever heard of Borax.

It's called Boron Rio Tinto. So it's a mine, and they do minerals. So he would be packaging, shipping out minerals, everything to do with, it's not under the ground mine, it's above the ground. It has to do with the minerals. They put them in electronics. When he talks to you about it, what do you think his excitement level is? Sorry, I didn't hear you.

What do you think his excitement level is when you hear him talk to you about this new job on a scale of 1 to 10, 1, no excitement, 10, he's throwing a party. What's his excitement level hear him talk to you about this new job on a scale of 1 to 10? 1, no excitement. 10, he's throwing a party. What's his excitement level when he talks to you about this new job? 10. Then it's a no-brainer. So you guys now need to plan for the short term. So we don't know about retirement.

Listen. Well, Dave will answer that. Listen. You take the 401K. You get out of debt. You do your baby steps. Baby step 3 is in place of three to six months of expenses. You're debt free.

And then you put 15% of your income away for retirement and you will retire wealthy. 15% you said? You need to put 15% of your income away for retirement and they're going to match another six. And so you're going to retire wealthy if you do that. Okay. So you're fine. You are not going to retire and have to eat Alpo. That's right.

Okay. Good to know. Here's the other thing. Never take a job. Ever. Ever. Just for the money. Never take a job.

Ever. Ever. Because of the freaking benefits package. It's true. Always take a job because it has a bright future and makes you smile doing the work. Yes. This is the way you make a decision on a job. Yeah.

Not based on the freaking 401k match. That's exactly right. Now, let's go back into our baby steps, Dave. Let's walk other people through this. Because this call, we get this a lot on the Ken Coleman Show. I know a lot of people listening and watching right now are feeling this too. So this is a temporary pay cut. So in three to six months, he's going to go from $25 an hour to around $32 an hour.

So they need to get back into their budgeting and go, okay, we have to plan for a temporary pay cut. But it's temporary. So we've got to adjust the budget. We plan for this, and we absorb this. Your thoughts on that? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Don't act like it's not. So we've got to adjust the budget. We plan for this, and we absorb this. Your thoughts on that? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Don't act like it's not happening.

Yeah. Because they'll end up, you know, I ran up $5,000 in credit card debt because we took a pay cut. You know, that's dumber than a rock. Don't do that. So you've got to plan. It's going to happen. It's going to happen. So plan on the drop in pay.

Make sure you're going to lower your lifestyle to fit that. And then you can begin your investing process later. But, yeah, railroad retirement is incredible. It is not so incredible that you should keep a job making absolute ceiling on your ability to progress and keep a job that you don't like doing. Yeah. This is important to point out that you know when it's time to consider moving on, when you have been told and it's been made obvious to you that you've hit your lid. Now you've got to sit back and go, okay, am I okay with this lid? Because, Dave, you know this.

We as humans are creatures of progress. It's just wired into us by our creator. We want to make progress. We want to grow. Some people have gone so far as to say if you're not growing, if you're not learning, you're dying. Now, there are some jobs where you go, hey, this not growing, if you're not learning, you're dying. Now, there are some jobs where you go, hey, this is it. And I'm good here. And this is it.

But for those of you who want more in your work and you're in an environment where because of the organization or the leadership, there is an artificial lid on you. You're not moving up. It's time to start thinking about moving on. Absolutely. Jeff is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hi, Jeff.

What's up? I'm doing well. How about you guys? Good. How can we help? So I'm curious. I have $61,000 in an IRA rollover account from previous work history. I'm curious if I should roll that into a Roth IRA.

I'm in baby step two. No. Because you're going to create $12,000 worth of taxes to add to your baby step two. So I am. Hear me out for a second. So I owe $17,500 on my truck. I have $15,500 in savings. And I'm getting $10,000 back in taxes this year.

Mm-hmm. So that's going to wipe out my debt. We'll be on baby step three. Good. And you still don't have an extra $15,000 to pay the taxes? So my numbers, if I moved half of it, I would get $27,000. Let's just stop, okay? I would not do this, okay?

It's an old 401K. Is that what you said? Yes. I would roll it to a traditional IRA in good mutual funds. Later on in your wealth building, I would convert it to a Roth in a few years after you get the house paid off and do some other things and you've got some extra cash laying around. But when you throw $15,000 or whatever at this, you know, a fourth of it's going to be taxes roughly at this account because you're

rolling it to a Roth, then that's money you could have used to build your emergency fund, build your kid's college fund, get the house paid off and some things you should do before you send the government money and so i instead would just move it to a traditional ira and let it sit there and grow in some good mutual funds and convert it to a roth later you need the fifteen thousand dollars that you would be spending on taxes to do things that are more important than this becoming a roth today it's a matter of priorities. You do what you want, but that's what you ask associate producer for The Ramsey Show. Did you know that over 16 million people listen to The Ramsey Show every week? And a lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country.

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