The Ramsey Show - App - When Should You Pause the Baby Steps? (Hour 1)

Episode Date: June 14, 2024

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined by the one, the only, Dr. John Deloney. And we're here to serve you, America, to help you take the right next step for your life and your money. And the way you interact with the show is you call us at the number 888-825-5225. If you should be so lucky, our phone screener, Christian, will let you through the lines, and you will have the privilege, the honor honor of talking to Dr. John Deloney. May the odds be ever in your favor.

There you go. Hannah's kicking us off in Atlanta, Georgia. Hannah, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hey, thank you so much for taking my call. Absolutely. What's going on? So I was in a toxic relationship and ended up getting divorced. Me and my ex-husband had a few car loans and we had an apartment together.

Once the divorce, or during going through the divorce, I ended up losing my job. And with that, I ended up losing my apartment that I had. And I also ended up losing one of my cars. So I have one collection that equals about $3,000. I have a car repo that's about $12,000. We did have a car loan that was joint together, and I just found out recently that the car loan that we had together has also been repoed. So I have about $55,000 in debt. $52,000 of it is in repo, three in collections. And I don't know what to do, if I should file bankruptcy or what steps I need to do.

So sorry. This is like a terrible country song. Just one thing after another. Are you back to work now? I am, thank God. I have a job and I'm making about $2,500 a month. Okay. Do you have any kids? I do not. Okay. What job are you doing making $2,500 a month? I actually work in a dental office. I'm just one of the receptionists there. Okay. Is that enough to pay your bills? Luckily, I live with one of my friends, so my rent is not that expensive.

I pay about $800 in rent. Okay. Both George and I, George is going to walk you through the math of all this, but both him and I, I know there's a season when you just get get beat up and beat up and beat up and beat up and the smoke clears and all that i get that but i want more than just $2,500 a month and you rent a room from a friend for your life i have a bigger i have a bigger vision for you for than that okay and we'll talk to you how to get different kinds of work or expand that but $2,500 man man, that's scratching by these days. I actually am in college right now because of all of this. I needed a better life for myself.

So I'm actually in school right now. Good for you. I'm going to be a nurse. Good. Okay, amazing. Then I take back everything I just said. Good on you. You're incredible.

That's awesome. Are you working full-time while doing nursing school? Yes, I am. Wow. Good deal. Okay. So we make $2,500 a month. You have a car now? I do. I paid cash for it. Okay. And you owe nothing else except for the 52 in repo, 3,000 in collections. Was the3,000 in collections for a car? What was that for? That was for the apartment that we had. During the divorce, I actually ended up losing the apartment because I lost my job. I couldn't pay for it.

Okay, so this is kind of like the eviction settlement, missed payments, breaking the lease, all that? Yeah. Okay. Well, the good news is you have a place to lay your head that's safe and affordable you have a car to get you to and from work you have work so there's a lot of good things happening uh after what you've just experienced which is straight up hell so how much money do you have right now left over after you pay your bills every single month? I was doing the math last night after my expenses because I am paying for college myself. So I'm not taking

out any student loans. After all of my expenses, I have about $300 left every month. Okay. You could start attacking these debts with. How much is school costing you? How are you able to cash flow nursing school? Well, I am going to a technical college, so it's about, I mean, maybe $1,500 every semester. But I'm just saving as much as I can a month to go towards that, so I don't have to take out any student loans. Hannah, for the repos, do both of those happen in Georgia? Yes. Okay, so when they get repoed, whoever repossesses the cars, the person who holds the title, sells those cars. And what she sells that car for goes against the note. So you don't owe $53,000 on those two cars. They owe the deficiency balance.

They should have sent you a number saying, here's what you owe us now that we have sold these cars for X number of dollars. Now, it wouldn't surprise me if they sold those cars to their buddy for an insanely low deal. I don't know how that all works, but you should not owe the total balance of $53,000. Okay. Have you been in contact with the repo folks? No, actually the only way I found out about this was I just pulled up my credit karma and some of that, the account was closed. Okay. And so I contacted the lender,

and that's when I found out that it had been repossessed. Well, and some of these that get repossessed, if they sell the car and the price they fetch is higher than what you owe on it, they actually owe you that money back or have some sort of split depending on what state you're in. So I can imagine if they sold a $20,000 car and you owed $18,000, that they just kept that $2,000 and just didn't call you yet. Yeah.

Do you have any communication with your ex? I don't, no. He has me blocked on everything. I can't contact him at all. Okay. And have you let them know that this debt is partially with an ex that you have no contact with? Yes. Okay. I would be proactive in talking to them. I don't want them coming after you because you've been ignoring them. I want them to know you by name going, hey, she calls every week

just updating us. Here's what I can pay. Here's where things are at. Here's my plan. And so I would work on getting on some sort of payment plan with them just to show that you're making effort to pay this off. And then like John said, once you know the exact amount that you owe, now we can make a plan to say, how can we negotiate this? Can we get a lump sum saved up? How do we attack this so that we can get this out of your life and have you move on? But the only way out of this thing is to get rid of this debt off your record and out of your life. And Hannah, please, please, please don't file bankruptcy. You're nowhere near that case. Okay. Please don't file bankruptcy. You're nowhere near that case. Okay?

Please don't do that. That was the thing I didn't know if I should or what direction I should go in. We've seen worse situations. Way worse. And we still didn't tell them to file bankruptcy. And so there is hope for you yet. The key here is it's hard because you're in school. You're not going to be able to take on extra side hustles and get your income up while you're in school.

So how long until you're out of school and working? I've only been in school a year now. This is my second semester. How long is the program? A bachelor degree for nursing is four years. Okay, so you could foreseeably be doing this for a while, living this life where you're trying to work full-time, school full-time, and trying to tackle the debt?

Yeah. Okay, I've done that. I've done it it and it's not fun, but it's definitely doable. Okay. We 100% believe in you, but don't take, what I don't want you to do is I don't want you to take the pain of this divorce and then spread it over the next seven years with a bankruptcy on top of it. You've been through enough hurt. Don't do that. Hang on a line, Hannah. I'm going to send you a copy of my book, Breaking Free from Broke, as well as Financial Peace University. We want to walk with you as you climb out of this hole and start whatever's next for Hannah. We are cheering you on. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys. Health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer,

and it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically-based alternative to health insurance, Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM is a health cost-sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of over $11 billion in medical bills since 1981. And CHM has also helped them stay true to their values and avoid miles of red tape. And CHM support goes far beyond meeting financial needs. They'll also help meet spiritual needs. Members become part of a family who will pray with them and for them when they experience a medical event.

So listen, y'all, there's no better way to take care of health care costs. CHM programs start as low as $98 a month. So learn more today and join at chministries.org slash budget at chministries.org slash budget. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Listen, selling the house the Ramsey way makes home ownership a blessing instead of a burden. And the Ramsey Trusted Program is the only way to find an agent that you can trust to keep you on track with what we teach here on The Ramsey Show and get the best offer for your house or find the right house for you. We're going to send you some of the top agents in your area who we trust. We vet them, and you get to review their stats.

You get to interview them. You decide which one you want to work with. And these agents have years of experience. They're pros. They've sold a lot of houses. They know what they're doing. They're going to help you make those decisions when it comes to pricing and marketing and making or choosing the right offer. So go ahead and find a Ramsey Trusted Real Estate Agent for free at ramseysolutions.com slash agent. All right, let's head out to Philadelphia up next. We've got Jessica there.

How's it going, Jessica? Hi, George. Hi, Dr. John. It's great to talk to you. It's even better to talk to you. How's it going? Well, here's my question. Would it be beneficial to pause Baby Step 2 for about two months in order to cash flow attending the Money and Marriage Conference in February? That's a loaded question. Sophie's choice. I have my answer. What's the state of your marriage? Oh it's a really good marriage We have four kids, three of them are teenagers

One almost is a teenager We're really busy with that My husband's an elementary school principal The last four years have been really crazy with his job And he's also in grad school right now Going for his doctorate in education So we're busy and um when i hear the money and marriage conference being advertised i'm like i want to

do that i want to go with him and just invest in our marriage um and i think it would be really awesome we've started the day ramsey plan about a year ago which was a month after buying a car and financing like half of it oh boy how far. How far away from becoming debt-free? So we should be in beginning of AB Step 3, like in March of 25, if we didn't do the conference. Okay. It would put us on hold by about a month. Well, here's the good news.

It's not the first or last time we're going to do this thing. And so I would personally tell you. I could get fired at any moment. Yeah, that's true. Jessica, if you were my friend and if it was any other event, I'm going to tell you don't do this right now. I think John was saying, hey, is this on fire? Like your marriage is more important than anything. If this is the one thing that's going to save the sinking ship, then we would say, all right, this is worth saving your marriage over. But this is not a crisis situation. This

is a luxury to travel, to get lodging and transportation, and go have fun for a weekend. And so I would tell you to just pause and join us for the next one when you're able to cash flow it and out of debt. Okay. But I will tell you this. There is a – I don't think it's been announced yet. So I'm going to get your number or your email address.

Okay. So you know the one in October is sold out. And if you do want to come, it's ramsaysolutions.com slash events and money marriage. We opened up a new one in February,

right, for Valentine's weekend. It's going to be amazing. But there will be a money marriage live stream that we follow up the October one with

and I'll hook you up with that, okay? Oh, that's kind. Oh, that would be amazing. So y'all can watch it at home. It's not going to be as cool as the one here but it's going to be amazing. It's going to be a totally different between me and Oh, that would be amazing. So y'all can watch it at home. It's not going to be as cool as the one here, but it's going to be amazing.

It's going to be a totally different. It's going to be me and Rachel, and it will be awesome. So hang on the line, and I don't even think we've announced this yet, so I may have just completely messed up everything with live events. If I have. I did just mess it up. Kelly's saying it's been announced.

Oh, Kelly's just telling me you're fired. She's mouthing you're fired, you're fired. It's okay. It's all right. So, Jessica, we got you covered. So hang on the line here and we'll get you hooked up with a free live stream. That's awesome. What a great pitch that we did not pay for, for the Money in Marriage event.

So thank you for that, Jessica. Check that one off the list. I know. It's tough for me because I want everyone to come because I know it's good. And also, if you can't afford it, you can't afford it. You get priorities right now. That's right. So that's good. Thank you for that.

James is up next in Allentown, Pennsylvania. What's going on, James? Hi, thank you for taking my call. You got it. What's up, man? So I am pretty new to the Ramsey Show. I am looking to buy a car, which I have enough for in cash, but I have no real credit built up. I've had a credit card for about a year.

I've only gotten, like, gas and maybe some dinner a couple times with it. But I'm worried about if I don't ever build real credit, I might, you know, I'm worried about future mortgages and stuff like that, and I'm looking to see what I should do. You going to play a game with us? Yeah. Okay, guess mine or George's credit score. Ready, go. Zero. Ta-da. Yeah. Yeah. Well, or George's credit score. Ready?

Go. Zero. Ta-da. Yeah. Well, you know what's funny? You know the reason people want a good credit score? So they can afford the financing of the vehicle. You've already achieved that.

You've transcended the need for a credit score. Yeah. You have the cash to pay for it. So I will address the real fear that people have when it comes to buying a house. Because they go, well, the mortgage company is not going to let me just get a mortgage if there's no credit history. And there's this thing out there called manual underwriting. It's not done a whole lot because America's obsessed with debt. And so everyone just has a credit score. And this is the process I went through in 2019 to buy a house. I didn't have a credit score. They said, all right,

you can do a no score loan through manual underwriting. We're going to look at your tax return, your income history, bank statements. And then a real person says, all right, George is qualified for this mortgage. And so you're going to be able to do the same exact thing. And our friends at Churchill Mortgage, they've been doing this for decades. They're the experts in this field when it comes to no score loans. And that truly is the only reason I can think of where it's a valid point to go, all right, I might need a credit score here. And even then there's a way around it. Okay. How does that hit you? It's a relief. I didn't want to have to finance anything. I'm really looking forward to staying

debt free for the rest of my life. Beautiful. What kind of car are you buying? There's a way around it. Nissan Ultima. Nice. What kind of car are you buying? Nissan Altima. Nice. And how much cash do you have saved up? A little over $30,000. Whoa. That's incredible.

How long did that take you? I don't really spend much, so it's kind of just been saving for like ever, but, you know. I love it. James, you just said something that I think is important for us to double click on what's that buying a house with an a um and using a mortgage uh i mean uh using a manual underwriting that's not actually the way around it that's actually the thing that makes the most sense the way around not having enough's actually the thing that makes the most sense. The way around not having enough money or not being in a position where you have any business buying a house,

that is where a credit score comes in, right? That's actually the hack. Because if you have cash, you just buy it. And if you pay your bills on time and you've got enough money and you can prove, here's my job, that's what manual underwriting, they're just going to come check out your life and make sure you can actually afford what you're about to do. That's just a straightforward path. We've created, we like started taking an exit around the actual, anything that makes sense. And now that's become so normal, right? You just see everybody exiting, so everybody just exits. And it really clears up the lanes in front of you. But the path should be, can you afford this or not?

And if you can't, and the only way we tell you to borrow money is with a mortgage. Do you have a life that makes this mortgage for as few years as possible as it's going to be in your life? Do you have a life that can sustain this mortgage? That's not the weird thing. The weird thing is having to get this proxy to be like no no no we've looked at all the other places he borrows money and he's pretty good with it so we're going to give him a triple stamp and double stamp it and uh not his first rodeo at not being able to afford things yeah yeah he never can afford things and he always figures out a way to pay little bits and pieces of the things he can't afford so he's good to buy your house you see what i'm saying you're doing it the right way all right just the chaotic way just some encouragement for you we

live in it yeah that's the weird part is that like it's so normal now to be broke and to have to navigate this stupid broken financial system that when you do it any other way people look at you funny and i guarantee james when you go to the car dealership and you go oh no i don't need to go to the financing office i'm just going to write you a check they're gonna be like what and they're gonna try to convince you that you should finance it they made me go i walked in and said the second time i bought a car the first time my my kids are with me it was a disaster and the second time i said i work for dave ramsey i'm on the air for the ramsey show i'm gonna write a check and the salesman was amazing, but he goes, dude, I hate to do this,

but they're going to call you. They're at least going to call you. And I was like, okay. It just can't not. They can't not. They're going to try to sell it. We say that. Be careful when you step foot on that dealership

or wherever you're buying the car from. Do your due diligence. Don't let them talk you into anything. They're going to make you feel stupid, out of touch, you're dumb. Oh, you're one of those idiots that listens to that show, and you're like, no, no, no, I'm one of those idiots that sleeps all night. They might even offer you a discount for financing with them. Don't take the bait.

They are in the business of making money. Cars are quite literally the vehicle they use to lend money. That's it. That's how it goes. And, James, hang on the line. I'm going to send you a copy of my book, Breaking Free from Broke. I want you to read the credit scores chapter because I think it will make you have an even worse taste in your mouth towards the story and it's a lie. In our self-obsessed society, we're obsessed about our own diets, our own workout routines, our own jobs, our own social media feeds, everything. It's easy

to forget that no one can do life alone. And I don't care if you're an introvert, an extrovert, or whatever you want to call yourself. We all have to have a community and a support system to do life with. It's time to shift the focus from doing it all by ourselves to knowing that we can only be well and whole when we ask for help. Therapy can be a great source of help and support for any area of your life. And if you're thinking about starting therapy, try BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy so it can fit with your schedule. To get started, just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist. And if it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. This month, start to build your support system with BetterHelp.

Visit betterhelp.com slash ramserad Radio to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Ramsey Radio. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. The phone number is 888-825-5225. I'm George Campbell, joined by the host of The Dr. John Deloney Show, Dr. John Deloney., Dr. John Deloney. We've got tons of shows on the Ramsey Network, including that one, so be sure to check them out if you're enjoying this one. It's on podcasts, YouTube, wherever you like to hang out. Kevin is up next in Seattle, Washington. Kevin, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much for having me. Sure. I need help. I am debt-free, which I'm extremely excited about. I discovered Ramsey Solutions about probably a year, a year and a half ago and really dove in and it made me feel good that I felt like I had been living the Ramsey Solutions lifestyle for my entire adult life without even knowing it. You're like, I'm not the only crazy person out here who's like, I don't want to have payments.

Right. Or more realistically, somebody taught you common sense, right? Well, yeah. I mean, when I graduated college, I was just shy of $70,000 in student loans. So I immediately out of college, my focus was to pay off the student loans. My goal was to get that done when I was 30. I managed to pull it off just before my 29th birthday. And from there, I purchased a house with a mortgage. I didn't really have much money saved up at that point.

And then spent my 30s focusing. I had a couple roommates in and out and just picking up side jobs and focused on trying to pay my mortgage off as fast as I could. Fast forward another 10 years, I ended up selling that house when it was really close to being paid off, put that money into an IRA.

Things are going great. I've moved closer to family. I don't currently own a house right now, so I don't have a mortgage. I'm renting just to make sure that this is the place I want to be and I like the job and everything. So the biggest challenge, and I'm starting to realize it more and more as I get older, is that I've been doing the track every dollar. I've been living the Ramsey's solutions life for so long that I'm really, it feels that it's turned into like an obsession or an addiction or is like taking over my life. And I've, I realized that I'm, you know, in a much better situation, a lot of people,

and I don't take that for granted, but I, I feel like I'm struggling by not being able to spend money if I know that probably sounds twice as crazy but no like what you're experiencing is is surprisingly I'm gonna say it's common but it's not rare that this identity kind of takes over um and I guess as someone who is on the inside of this thing, right? Like me and George actually stir the Kool-Aid before we send it out to you guys. Probably the top three most expensive meals I've ever eaten in my life were with Dave, right? So, Ramsey's not about not spending money and not about buying really nice things and not about having amazing dinners and experiences with really nice things and not about having amazing dinners and experiences with your friends it's about making sure that you're a person of generosity

and that you can afford these things right and you can't you and it's but i think it's almost turned into like fear because i've been you know like i like i said like I said, when I graduated college, I just needed to pay off the student loans. Right. So that's where every dollar went. And then once that was done, then it was a mortgage. And I only focused on that. And then, you know, like the fear was always not being able to do that. What was money like growing up for you? I would probably lower middle class. It never went without, but like just, we were just happy and everything seemed fine. Yeah.

If you're lower middle class, there was a tension in your home that was palpable. I guarantee you. And whether you knew it to be that or not, if you're lower middle class, things are tight all the time. Yeah. I mean, it was definitely was definitely i mean we were happy but it was definitely tight there you go so and my guess is that's wired into your nervous system i um so how do how do i you know being 45 years old now and ancient like i can write everything down on a piece of paper and i can be like i'm gonna be okay

like i but i can't i can't convince myself can i can i tell you a trick it's not a trick it's just it's just the path but i want you to know you're not crazy i grew up and it was very very similar lower middle class things were scary and my dad never said we're broken we're poor he never said that but when i would say hey i'm out of deodorant i could see him wince and when i went to get seconds and there was very little food like i would kind of just exhale right so i i caught it it was a part of me right and now my life is very very different and um recently i'm where my family's moving and i told my son who's 14 i told him i have this weird non-pit in my stomach now and he said why and i told him because it's still wired into me that everything goes away, right? And so here's what I want to tell you.

You cannot outthink this. One of the great modern lies of the modern mental health movement is that you can become mentally okay, you can become mentally and emotionally well by just sitting around thinking about stuff. That's just not true. You have to act differently. And so what does that mean for you you have to choose to stop

ruminating when your mind starts spinning and spinning and your heart rate starts going up and going up and going up you have to choose to say oh i know what you're doing you're trying to protect me body i'm all good and then you have to think of something else you have to choose that it's the same thing i tell like a a parent who's lost a child often that picture that last picture of the kid in in the funeral home will just lightning bolt into their mind and they get to choose from that moment forward are you going to meditate on this picture and think about it and go get have your body just go back to that spot or are you going to exhale and then immediately replace that picture with little kid on on on the big wheel you get to choose that and here's the second thing you have to build into your budget giving and spending you're gonna have

to practice this new way of being dave has taught me to really look at the ratios because my nervous system can't handle the life I have now compared to the life I grew up with. And so I simply have to look at the ratios. Do I have enough money for X and Y and Z? Yep, I do. Okay, cool. Then I'm going to give this much away. And dude, it's like, ah, but you exhale.

And then I'm going to buy this for my wife because I love her. And comparatively, it's less than 0.0000% of my net worth. I'm going to buy it. And I practice and I practice and I promise you it gets easier. Are you single, Kevin? I am, yeah. No, no, no, don't get over it. Don't get over it.

Go right through it. So what we're saying is in that every dollar budget, you're going to force yourself to give more than you ever have. And you're going to force yourself to spend more than you ever have. And you're going to find a new hobby and you're going to pour some money into that and start to see what that feels like. And over time, that will become normal. That's a normal part of the budget. Kevin gives more. Kevin spends more. Because you're great at saving. We got that dialed down right now we have a flat tire

so we need to inflate the other parts of our life artificially right now by forcing it it's total artificial until it becomes oh you know what I enjoy golf

I'm willing to spend 200 bucks a month on this hobby over here and let me challenge you on the giving part I want you to tie or do whatever your faith tradition

practice tells you to do but I want you to when I talk about giving I want when you go out to eat practice tells you to do but i want you to when when i talk about giving i want when you go out to eat i want you to find a bus boy who's cleaning up tables and just scrubbing and scrubbing and going from table to table to table walk over and put your hand on that guy's shoulder and he'll turn around and because most people walk past that guy every day they don't even look at him as though he's a human. And I want you to stop

and I want you to hand him a $100 bill and say, I see how hard you're working. I'm really grateful for you. Just watch his eyes. Or go to Waffle House and tip the waiter 200 bucks on a $20 plate of diabetes and dude, they will follow you out in the parking lot and they'll hug you

because you just paid their electric bill and their water bill and whatever was, you see what I'm saying? Like you will experience generosity. And watch what happens to your body. You're going to feel more joy than you have in a long time because truthfully, there's very little joy in saving and investing.

There's more joy in spending, but there is way more joy in giving. And I think that's going to unlock something for you, Kevin, as you start to do this. I want you to, you're changing your identity. So I want you to write down on a piece of paper. I am, I am so-and-so and I'm a person who is a good steward. I give. I'm so-and-so, I'm a person who has a good time with my money. I'm so-and-so, I am smart with my money. And we're going to start from there. We're going to backfill that with habits and make it happen.

This is The Ramsey Show. button and share this with a friend, a family member, someone who you think could use a little positivity, a little hope in their lives and display some of the just trash that's out there. Just the, I guess the candy, just the sweet nothing candy that is the internet. I don't know. You refer to yourself as the Ramsey eye candy. Some of the candy's all bad. That's very different, John. That's true.

Thank you for reminding America. You're welcome. If they're not watching on YouTube, now's very different, John. Thank you for reminding America. You're welcome. If you're not watching on YouTube, now's the time to start. There we go. It's open phones at 888-825-5225. Don't be shy. Call us. We'll give you our best advice.

And sometimes it's not the best. Right, John? Disagree. Julie's up next. In Montreal, we're going way north, John. How's it going, Julie? Hi, I'm good. How are you? Good. Julie, we've got some of your closest friends here in the studio from Montreal, from Toronto.

Wait, really? Yes, we really do. We're surrounded by Canadians right now. It's one of the nicest, warm feelings I've ever had. Oh, well, thank you so much for taking my call. I love both of you. I watch you religiously. That's so kind.

Well, what's up? All right. I'm 27. I'm a matress. I'm currently doing Baby Step No. 2, Gazelle Intensity. I'm doing Financial Peace University. And if I keep going going i'll be out

of debt by august 2025 and um i listened to that episode that rachel talks about giving to charity and and she talks about um like how important it is and to like who it like how it transforms you across like how important it is and I I think it's a I I believe in it but when it comes to the you know I make right now I'm making four thousand a month and that that extra four hundred dollars I I can't find myself to actually give it away um and and I'm yeah I'm wondering if it's like how wrong it is to not give when you're in baby step two. I don't like looking at it from a right or wrong kind of moral perspective. You know, giving has been and always will be a matter of the heart. And we've always said, give a little until you can give a lot.

Giving is not one of the baby steps until baby step seven, which is sort of, you know, choose your own adventure. But, you know, in baby step one, give a little, give something. Baby step two, give a little, give something. And once you get out of those steps into baby steps, you know, four, five, six, seven, that's where you can really dial it up because you have more margin. And so right now you're saying 400 bucks is, is that 10% or are you saying 400 bucks is how much you can throw at the debt? That would be 10%. Okay. Is that what your church is asking of you? No, but in, in, in your budget, you say give 10% of your income.

Okay. So yeah. I misunderstood that. It's coming from Rachel's perspective and she's a Christian and so tithing 10% is built into her spiritual practice, into her faith practice. If you can't breathe,

if you can't eat, then I want you to be well and whole. I think what George is getting at is it's an ethos. It's a way of being. Does that make sense? And so if you can't give $400, don't give $400 today. But I do want you to pick up somebody's gas at a gas station. I do want you to put into your budget, I'm going to give $35 or I'm going to give 50 bucks away. And I'll tell you, the more it pinches, the more it becomes a part of you. The more it hurts, if you will. But giving to where you walk around with your eyes open and you get your eyes out of your belly button. And our whole world is forcing us,

not forcing us, our whole world encourages us to walk around staring at our own navels and wondering how do we feel and what do we our own navels and wondering how do we feel and what and you know what do we feel and how do we feel and how do we feel giving helps you look up and see humanity see your neighbor see that person who doesn't have what you have and it gives you perspective on your own life it gives you perspective on your own challenges and you get to see in real time oh i don't have to wait for somebody in some government house to solve the world's problem i can be a part of this too and i see you neighbor and i'm gonna help you out it just it's an ethos right not it's way less a math problem and even inside the christian faith there's people

who 10 you know gross 10 it's it's gonna be a question that you have to answer for yourself when you sit down a budget. But yeah, I'm with George, man. Make it a part of who you are. And make it fun. It feels like right now you got to hit a quota. I just want you to have the spontaneous spirit like John's saying. I have a line item in my budget just called bless up. And we just set aside a little bit of money and whoever sees an opportunity, we just get to give. And maybe that's how you start to frame it up. Instead of a certain percentage, you just say, here's how much I'm able to do this month. Here's how much I'm willing to do. And you just make it fun and you make it matter. And I think that will

unlock something in you. And guess what? A year from now, you're going to be in a different place. So this is not a life sentence. And so I wouldn't put too much pressure on yourself to do a certain thing a certain way. Does that give you some peace? Yeah, that definitely helps. Thank you. Okay. Absolutely. All right. It thing a certain way. Does that give you some peace? Yeah, that definitely helps. Thank you. Okay. Absolutely. All right.

It's a great question. It's a great, great question. I love the spirit of it. The fact you're even asking this tells me that you're going to be a very generous person. If you're even struggling with it, like, ah, I want to, but it's hard, better than, I don't even understand why the heck would you even do that? Yeah. All right, John, is that up next in Des Moines or as some of my friends call it,

Des Moines? One of your friends does. One of my favorites. John, what's happening? Hey, George and John, thanks for taking my call. Yeah, what's going on? What's up? Well, to keep it straightforward, my wife and I, we're receiving pensions that meet all of our family's living expenses. So is there a need or benefit to still investing in a retirement plan, like a Roth IRA or 401k? I'll tell you what I would do. I would still recommend diversifying away from the pension. And there's a few reasons for it. The obvious one is that you don't have any control over the pension

and that if something happens with the company, the pension dies too, and they perform poorly comparatively to you investing on your own through a 401k or an IRA. Okay, and to clarify, so I'm retired military, so I receive a retired pay from the government plus a disability. So I guess if that funding stream stops, I think we're all in a worse way. Absolutely. That would be a scary one. How much is it? Is it, is this enough to sustain for the next foreseeable future, regardless of what happens with your expenses? Yeah. So between the two of us, we make a little over 10 grand a month in just the disability and retirement pay. Okay. And what's your life like right now? What's your financial picture? Do you

guys have any debt? We just have the house left. We have about 87,000 left to pay. So another year and a half, and then we'll be completely debt free. Amazing. And what kind of retirement dreams do you guys have? Have you talked about that? Well, we're kind of living them as we go. So we're just enjoying time. We have two kids, a 9- and a 10-year-old, so we're just getting in that family time when we can, traveling when we can,

and then giving our time and money when we can as well because we're definitely a blessed situation. All right, John, I'm going to ask George a question on your behalf. Is that cool? Yes. If I was John and I was getting $10,000 of a federal pension every month and I was 18 months away from having my house paid off, I think in my house we would pause any sort of additional investing

and get that sucker paid off, because that feels like a liability that doesn't really even need to be there is that bad is that bad math no i mean i think truthfully john you're gonna be okay either way i just still like no one's ever complained that they had too much wealth to pass on and leave a legacy with and it doesn't sound like you guys investing you know 15 of your income would really change your life all that much, but it could change the numbers down the line. Okay, so my wife, she currently stopped contributing to her Roth IRA and 401k, so we can pay off the house and get rid of that liability. Okay, good deal. benefit or need for us to actually continue with the retirement accounts, if that's something that

we can pass on to our kids or anything like that in the future that we need to think about that I'm not aware of. Yeah. Well, the thing to think about is with a Roth IRA, you need earned income in order to contribute to that. And so while y'all are working, that's a good thing to use. The 401k is a good thing to use. But again, if this is guaranteed from the government forever, you're going to be okay. But I would just rather be diversified and have more options of where I'm pulling from and when with those other retirement opportunities. So thanks for the call. Sounds great.

Yeah. Thanks for your service as well. This puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. I'm George Campbell. He's Dr. John Deloney. We'll be back before you next time.