The Ramsey Show - App - When Should You Share Your Income While Dating? (Hour 3)

Episode Date: February 2, 2022

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🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show. It's where we help you live your best life by being healthy, relational, and successful professionals. And peaceful financially. I'm Kit Coleman, joined by my colleague, George Campbell. We're here this hour to take your calls. 888-825-5225 is the toll-free number. It's free. 888-825-5225.

George, you ready to go? I'm ready. All right, let's do it. Let's go to Andrea in Denver, Colorado. Andrea, how can we help? Hi, thank you guys for taking my call. I'm a huge fan. Thank you. How can we help? Hi, thank you guys for taking my call. I'm a huge fan. Thank you.

How can we help today? I wanted to give you a scenario, and hopefully you can give my husband and I some guidance. He was, my husband is burnt out on his job. He was a combat military for eight years and then went straight into law enforcement and has been doing that for nine years. Wow. He, um, would like to move out of that and move towards, um, mortgages. And, um, we are in baby step two. We have a car loan that's about 22,000. And right now I was doing some math and, um, we3,800, $3,900 to run our household. And he gets a VA payment for $2,300. So $1,500 difference. And another thing that we were

hoping to do was we don't love our house. We were thinking if we move, um, we sell this house, pay off our car, have a big emergency fund and get into a different house so he can make that transition quicker. Because like I said, he's just really burned out. Um, do you think that that's a feasible plan? Um, I think one of the things that scares me is just having that income up in the air where it's not as secure as what he has now. Is that something that's reasonable or am I just being fearful of change? Well, I'm going to have George walk through the numbers. Let's have George walk you through the money and then we'll walk through the professional side and what that income could look like and how long that's going to take.

Because I think if you get really confident and George walks you through, is this a good move financially to do all these things, then we can kind of plan. So George, walk her through that. So what I'm hearing, Andrea, is you need $18,000 of net income at this point to keep everything going, right?

No, we need, it's like a $1,500 difference. Yeah, you said a month. Per month, yes. Okay, if you multiply that out by 12 months, it's $18,000 a year. Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. Oh, I misunderstood your question as well. I'm just saying this is not a huge chunk of money.

You could go work a part-time job and make this money. So on that part, I don't want you to be fearful because there's not a $5,000 gap here and we can't pay the bills. So this is definitely doable. What is the car worth? The car is worth about $38,000. We actually found you guys, bought the car, found you guys, and then since October have paid down to about $22,000. Fantastic. So if you sell the car today, you've got $16,000 there.

How much is the house worth? So the house is worth between $650,000 and $700,000, and we owe $360,000. Oh, wow. Very nice. And we don't love the home. It's something that was already on our mind to do. There you go, George. It's a great problem to have.

Would you guys be looking to buy a house again immediately? Because I know Denver's real estate market is pretty wild. So we're actually out. Denver is the closest city. We're actually four hours away from it. We would be looking to buy, but we would keep a chunk of that down payment to just kind of have some margins. And you guys have already run these numbers, sounds like to me. I have, yes. I guess where my fear is coming from is we have gotten a lot of feedback saying, well, as a mortgage officer, you could be making money in a year or you could be making money in five years.

And that's where I think my fear is coming from. And I don't know how reasonable that is or if I'm just being fearful, but he's really at the point where he's, you know, I heard you and John Deloney talk about that anxiety piece and that sleeping piece when you're just totally burned down, and he's there. Yeah. So we're trying to really work hard to figure out what we can do to get him to a better spot. Sure.

Okay, so I'll just dive in right there. So you guys can sell this house, sell the car. I mean, you've got multiple options here. All of a sudden, all that debt is gone. You reduce your expenses big time. That's great. And it will allow you and he to sleep better at night knowing he's in a transition. But before we even talk about all that, all that makes sense.

George, do you agree? Yeah. Okay. I'm on board. So George is on board. It makes sense to do that. You don't like the house anyway. I think it's a no-brainer to sell the house.

And if you want to keep the car, you can keep the car if you're going to sell the house. Yeah, you can pay it off, and you guys rent a year if you want to take your time. That all makes sense. I want to address your fear of him moving into the mortgage industry, being a mortgage officer, and what's that income going to look like. So the fear that you're feeling right now is, I think, largely based on the unknown. I think you've gotten some opinions, and I think what he has to do, your husband, if he's on board with this, and I'm assuming he is, that he wants to do this, he knows,

he needs to go do his research, talk to multiple people who are winning in that space, in that mortgage officer space, and he needs to get multiple opinions. I want three minimum, right? So that he can kind of weigh, I got three different people. What are the commonalities in their recommendations? And then what are the outliers? I'm going to go do my homework. Because if he just follows this out and he realized, okay, if I get with a company like this, who's got a great training program program and I know that maybe one company will offer something like this, which is maybe a base that gets you started or a draw and gets you going that first year, here's what we can say is a safe prediction of what you'd make in year one or in the first six months. This is just a fact-finding mission. It doesn't need to be any scarier than that.

Do you understand what I'm saying, Andrea? Yes. Because look, financially, you guys have got great options right now. And so we just go find out what does the transition look like. Let me give you a couple of questions that if you've got something to write with, I want you and your husband to walk through these questions together. You ready? Yes. Okay. So we want to figure out specifically what does he need to learn from a qualification standpoint? So what certifications is he going to need? All right. There's, there's, you've got to figure that out. Then we've got to say, okay, how much time is that going to take? How much money is it going to cost? Three simple little questions there. What does he need to do to get qualified from a just certifications process?

How much is it going to cost to do that? The cost is not your issue, but you just want to put all this together. And then how much time is it going to take? Those are the three pieces here of your plan. And then if he goes and does the other things I just recommended, he gets good feedback and he knows, all right, I know that we can make this and this is what we'd have to do. It's going to help you on the rest of that financial formula to decide, do we immediately go buy or do we rent for a little bit and pad our stats? Does that make sense?

It does. It does. That's really helpful. Yeah, you can do this. Sell the house. You got options. Again, George, the theme. It's the theme of the day. Debt holds back the dreams. It Sell the house. You've got options. Again, George, the theme. It's the theme of the day.

Debt holds back the dreams. It delays the dreams. And this could fast-forward everything for this man. We love the fast-forward button around here when you do it right. We really do. And would you thank your husband for his service to our country as well as his community. A lot of stuff there, and to put your life on the line for others is commendable, and he is a hero. Thank you for the call.

This is The Ramsey Show. People all over the country are discovering a faith-based and budget-friendly way of meeting health care costs through Christian Health Care Ministries. Christian Health Care Ministries, or CHM, is a nonprofit organization that helps members carry one another's burdens with health care expenses, and they have successfully shared each other's medical bills for nearly 40 years. See if CHM is right for you by visiting chministries.org. CHM is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Show.

I'm Ken Coleman, joined by my colleague, George Campbell. We are here to answer your questions about your life. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. 888-825-5225. Tax season is upon us. I know. Everybody try to calm down out there. 825-225 is the phone number. 888-825-5225. Tax season is upon us. I know. Everybody try to calm down out there.

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Zach is on the line. Zach, how can we help? Hello. Hi. Yeah, how can we help? Hello. Hi. Yeah, hi. So I was just calling because it's about kind of like career goals and education to get them. So I have two scholarships to do different schools. I've already got a bachelor's degree.

This is for grad school. And me and my wife have been discussing this, and we're not really sure where we're at on it. One of them is a master's in Christian studies, which would pay for most, if I wanted to get a master's of divinity, would get most of it. And my goal is to eventually teach at the seminary level, or at least at Bible college, get a Ph.D. in that, or get a master's. I have another scholarship to get a master's in, uh, in, in education, which currently right now I teach sixth grade. So that would, it wouldn't give me a pay raise. It was taking up from 45,000 to about 50,000. Um, I was wondering, and I could eventually get the PhD after that, obviously too, but it would be much faster for me to get the PhD if I did the Christian studies first.

I was wondering what you guys thought about that, which would be the wise choice to make. To me, the wise choice, Zach, is to take the straightest, most direct path, right? Okay. Fastest. I was never good in math, but I do remember the fastest, the shortest distance between two points is straight line. And so it seems to me that for you to get the PhD, you already set it, then one path is very clear.

The MDiv is the best path to the PhD, and the PhD is the destination for you academically to do what you want to do. So I wouldn't delay any time. And it sounds to me like maybe the conversation between your wife and you on this choice is about, well, if we get the Masters over here, we get a pay bump. Is that probably what's going on here? Yeah, she's interested in adding more stability. Yeah, but it's how much more money?

$5,000 a year. After how long? Two more years of a master's program, or how long is it going to take to get that $5,000 bump? Well, once I get the master's program, it goes up the year that I start with that master's program. Oh, okay, so pretty quickly. Yeah. All right, so here's what I would do. So here's what I would do.

I'm going to hand this to George. I want to know what George thinks. But, George, my mind for Zach is Zach needs to go, okay, he knows what the straightest line is. It's the MDiv to the PhD. But his wife's going, hey, there's a $5,000 bump the minute you take the master's in education. George, my mindset is you take $5,000, gross.

They're going to get a pretty good idea what the taxes are on that, and then you divide that by 12 months. It's not that much more money. You could say to your wife, I'm going to get the quickest path to the PhD and the dream, and I'll go work a little extra to bring in that money she thought was going to be so awesome and stable. My thought was I could mow lawns over a summer and make $5,000. Easy.

So it's not nothing, but it's not life-changing either. If you said it's going to be a $20,000 bump i didn't say let's have this conversation now are these both full scholarships what are we talking here so one is a full scholarship uh to get and the md what would i would get is a master's in christian studies at the baptist college of florida but then i would transfer those credits to a place to get an md because that's what I have to get to get a PhD. Right. Or I have another full scholarship to Liberty University, which would get me a master's in Christian education, and that would give me that. But if I did that, I'd have to take a lot more extra classes to get to the PhD to get to where I would qualify.

Oh, another horrible idea. So I'm going to go with the one that's the full scholarship that's going to take the least amount of time and credits. Yeah, there it is. But, I mean, the money thing is not that big of a deal. He's got to be able to present this to his wife. What looks like $5,000 isn't actually $5,000. Yeah. And when we look at what the actual – what I'm trying to do, Zach, is help you

because I've been married a long time. And you've got to be able to present this to your wife. She's presenting an idea based on safety. So you've got to actually meet her there. Yeah. And go, if I had done this, I'd have to take more classes. It would take me longer, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And the $5,000 is actually going to turn into this in our actual paycheck, in our actual budget.

So then we go, I can make that another way. And I'm willing to do that. Now, let me ask you this. Do you guys have any debt? Yeah, we've got some debt. We've got about $50,000. What kind of debt is that? Student loans entirely. Okay. But it sounds like we're done accruing more debt at this point? Yeah, we're not doing that anymore. Okay. And what's the household income? The household income is about $100,000. Okay. So your wife is working outside the home as well?

She's an engineer. Awesome. Oh, my gosh. Fantastic. This makes me feel better. Yes. Does it change my advice, though? Yeah. Advice still stays the same, but I do want you to attack the student loan debt if you're going to be able to cash flow this master's experience.

Don't let this thing sit idle for too long. Okay. Yeah. I like it. Thank you. Way to go, man. Yeah. Appreciate the call.

Very exciting. You know, congratulations, Zach, on two full rides. It's amazing. Sharp guy. I never got one full ride, George. They don't just hand those out, Ken. Not to me or you, at least. I don't know. I think you're a little smarter than I am. Thank you. Yeah. Sharp guy. I never got one full ride, George. They don't just hand those out, Ken. Not to me or you, at least. I don't know.

I think you're a little smarter than I am. Thank you. Yeah. All right, let's go to Jonathan next in Dallas, Texas. Jonathan, how can we help? Hey, how are you guys doing? We're having a blast. What's going on with you?

Good. So my wife and I, we're both debt-free. We're 26 and 28, and we just sold our house down here in Dallas area for a profit of $100,000 after moving expenses and fees. And we wanted to know what would be the best way to spend or invest that $100,000. We're moving up to the Boise area, so a little bit further away, and we're looking to buy a house, but kind of in the future. So we're just kind of wanting to see what the best route is with that money. Okay. Are you guys debt-free? Yes, sir. We are debt-free. And do you have a fully funded emergency fund of three to six months? Not yet. Now you do. Once you've got this hundred

grand, you're going to take a portion of that and set that aside. So that's one thing you're going to do with the money. And then with the rest of the money, you guys will begin investing and you'll begin putting away money for your kids' college. Do you have kids? No, we do plan on having kids here pretty soon. A couple of them. I kind of thought about maybe starting investing in Roth IRAs for their education just in case they decide to take a different plan, kind of freeze up that money for them. Is that a good idea? I mean, personally, I stick to ESAs and 529s, and if they don't use it, someone in the family can use it.

And this can go towards a lot of different things, certificate programs. If you or your wife want to have any kind of continued education, there's a lot of ways to use that money and you're going to be better off putting it there than the Roth IRA. So that's my take on that. But when it comes to the rest of this money, I would be socking that away for a down payment on this next house. And if it's going to be in the next year or two, even three years, I would just put it away in a high yieldyield savings account, which is not going to help grow your money, but it will protect it. So don't put it into the market right now. That's not what you want to do. I would rent for a year once you get to Boise, figure out where you want to live, let the market cool down a little bit, and then make the decision once you guys keep stacking the cash.

I love that. That's what I would do. Oh, yeah, George. Just one man's opinion. Yeah, $100,000 minus whatever that three to six months number is and that's what you begin to save on top of. Great advice. How exciting. And we can't stress enough.

For a young couple like this with no kids, I absolutely would rent the first year and moving into a new area. We call them dinks, Ken. Dual income, no kids. It's a great life. Is that what we call them? Yeah. That's good. Hey, I'll tell you what else is good. More of your calls coming up this is the ramsey Welcome back, America.

You are joining the conversation here on The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by my colleague, George Campbell. The phone number to jump in as we help you with your questions about life and money and relationships and work. It is 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. Let's go to Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Joshua joins us there. Joshua, how can we help? Hey, how are you guys doing? We're

having a blast. What's going on? Awesome. I had a question about my relationship and kind of how the financial aspect of everything sits into it. I've been with the girl, you know, about a year and a half and I love her and I'm looking at engagement, but we haven't discussed finances in detail. And I know there's a bit of an income gap there. And I was just kind of wondering when and how that subject should be approached. Great question. So let me ask you this. You said there's an income gap. How do you know that? She asked me to help do her taxes last year. I'm an investment advisor and tax advisor. Cool. So you know her income, but she doesn't know yours.

Yeah. And there's no big secret. The conversations just never come up. Yeah. So what is the conversation like around money so far? You know, it's just something we just split expenses when we go out and, you know, there's never any kind of concern on my part or even hers. But we have not gone in depth in any way, shape or form, you know, as far as what I have and what I make and that kind of thing. Well, without giving you a specific timeline, I'll say this, what's more important than the numbers are the values. And if you guys value the same things financially, if you guys both want to remain debt-free, become debt-free, invest for the future, those are the things that tell me that you will have longevity as a couple versus who makes what.

But if the fear is I make a lot more than her, is this going to change the relationship? Is that part of the equation? You know, I'm not overly concerned about that, but it's something that's in the back of my mind. You know, I don't think that she values that kind of thing more than me. Great values as a person. She's awesome. And neither of us have any debt anymore. So I guess I was just kind of wondering when's appropriate, before you get engaged, after you get engaged.

Sure. Well, here's the funny thing. She's already aired everything about her financial life because you did her taxes. So clearly she's very open and honest about this stuff. And I don't think it's a bad thing for you to do that as well. But I do think it's wise for you guys to be engaged before having very specific conversations when it comes to numbers, because we don't recommend combining your finances until you're married and that's really when it starts to matter sure but ken may have a totally different approach no what's your take on this ken you know i think it's i think you're very thoughtful on

this and i think there might be some fears i think you've addressed the financial stuff you know i think you have to joshua kind of wrestle with what are you afraid of based on the information you've given us? You know, do you think that, I know you love her, but I just heard some doubt about maybe even the long-term viability of this relationship because of how she looks at money and how you look at money. Am I reading into that or did I hear some of that? No, you know, I mean, I guess it's in the back of my mind, but it's probably more so from past experiences. I've had nothing to do with her.

You know, I'd hate to put that on her. It's probably more just in my life experiences. I've been burned in the past. You know, everybody has. What does that mean for you? What do you mean you got burned? You disclosed your income and they used you for your money? No, not necessarily.

I mean, I just just had in the past, I've been surrounded by some shallower people and she is by no means shallow. It's just maybe that's why I'm kind of struggling with the whole idea of disclosing it fully to somebody that's not say a business partner or, you know, an immediate family member. Well, I think I'm hearing some trust issues based on your past that's pretty normal you got hurt you know there's there's some trauma involved with what's happened to you in the past and so you have to get healthy with that and move on from it and then go okay what have i learned so i can be smart um but as i begin to grow deeper in my relationship with her and i share my finances

i mean what's the worst that can happen? Do you know what I mean? Do you think she's going to go on Facebook and share it with everybody? No. No. You know, so play this out. You know, what is the worst that can happen if I share my finances? And I think actually as you get comfortable doing this, and again, I think George is right, you guys are dating right now, so I don't think this has to happen now.

But if you get to that point and you become engaged, and maybe even before we get engaged, I think this is a great time. It's not about showing her everything in your finances. It's more about talking about your views on finances and your values around money. And if she is naive, that's a big difference than shallow. So shallow. Yeah. Okay, good. So you get what I'm saying there? I think shallow is one thing. Naivete and not kind of having any knowledge or experience with money is very different. I think as you begin to teach her and share with things and not be intense about it, but have conversations about it as you would maybe about eventually having kids

or religion or politics or whatever you would in a relationship. You begin to talk about it holistically and see how she feels about it. And if you feel there's still concerns, then you have to take that serious. But right now, I'm not seeing a lot of red flags. Sure. Yeah, appreciate the call, young man. Very thoughtful. Yeah.

Very mature. Yeah, I think that's great. Let's go now to Huntsville, Alabama. Nathan is there. Nathan, I think that's great. Let's go now to Huntsville, Alabama. Nathan is there. Nathan, how can we help? Ken, George, what's going on? You. What's happening?

Well, right now I'm currently in college at community college, and I've been kind of reconsidering my options a little bit. And, you know, I want to get into programming and that side of technology, but I'm just seeing that, you know, there's some better ways that I can go besides, like, the four-year degree and all that. And kind of, like, reconsidering doing, like, an associate's degree

since, you know, community colleges are way cheaper than, you know, universities. But, you know, I just like to go ahead and see if this is a good move for me to do right now so I can get experience and, you know, move up later if I choose to do so. And, you know. Yeah. Okay. So do you have any experience right now in this area of technology that you want to go into, even if it's entry-level experience? No, I do have some, you know, knowledge of, you know, programming, like Python,

and I'm right now learning C++. Good. You know, I've created some, you know, minor projects on the side, but nothing like to where maybe an employer would say, oh, you know, your project's incredible. Let's go ahead and review it. Great. Well, so if you're asking, if I'm putting this together and you're going, I'm in college right now, is it a smart idea for me to stop at the, you know, instead of pursue a technology degree or computer science, you fill in the gap or the blank rather.

Get an associate's degree at a community college, which you can cash flow. It's a lot cheaper, a lot quicker. And then you focus on those certifications like you're already taking that training and get yourself enough certifications for entry level, which you can do, even at this young age. They'll hire you right now. There are entry level positions. Once you have the right certifications, even on the programming level,

I think that's a great move. If that's what you absolutely know you want to do, and you want to move up as a programmer in any different kind of direction that that could take you, I can tell you right now, you do not need the computer science degree. It costs a lot of money, takes a lot of time. You don't need it. So yeah, I like that move. Nathan, how much time and money will it cost you to switch majors at this point? Well, working over about maybe two years would be the, you know, maybe minimum of when I can be able to acclaim my associates. And right now I have, you know, about maybe $4,000 saved up for, you know, to set aside to pat cash flow my way through college. And, you know, I don't have any other way to start. But, you know, that's not really top of my mind of what to get or major focus is.

But Nathan, you don't even need an associate's. I just thought you were asking, hey, if I want an associate's, which kind of sets me up, if I wanted to jump back on the education path down the line, should I do that? And I think, yeah. But the point is you don't even need the associates to get into the technology field. Okay, so what are some good certifications on the programming side that I should be focusing on? Yeah, great question. I personally am not a programmer so i can't

roll them off the top of my head but here's what i want you to do i want you to find three or four programmers uh in the area that you know have personal connections to ask them those questions go do your own research about what are the most vital most relevant programming certifications that make you versatile in the technology field go research that as well and then you're off and running my man appreciate the the call. Good stuff. Don't move. More of your calls coming up. This is the Ramsey Show, where we help you win in your life, with your money, your relationships, your work.

I'm Ken Coleman, joined by George Campbell. We're here for you this hour, 888-825-5225. Our scripture of the day comes from Job 34-32. Teach me what I cannot see. If I have done wrong, I will not do so again. Our quote from John Maxwell, learn to say no to the good so you can say yes to the best. 888-825-5225 is our phone number. Let's go to Greenville, South Carolina.

Kevin is there. Kevin, how can we help? Hey, guys, and good afternoon. How are you doing today? We're having a blast. What's going on with you? Doing well, doing well. I just wanted to call you guys and get your advice.

I'm in baby step four right now, and I'm trying to start, start doing some investing and land. So I just got enough money in my IRA to actually start, start investing and taking a serious step into a muscle. So I wanted yours, your opinion on if, if I should cash out some of my IRA to purchase a piece of land, you know, and I should say it's a, it's a rough IRA. cash out some of my IRA to purchase a piece of land.

And I should say it's a rough IRA, so I don't have to worry about the tax hit. All right. How much is in the IRA? About to hit $100,000. Okay. And what's this property worth of the land that you want to buy? So the first one that I'm looking at is just six acres here in the Greenville area, and it's about $45,000. So it wouldn't be all of my IRA, but it would be some of it. Okay. And how old are you?

I am 34. 34 years old. All right. And what are you planning on doing with the land? Just as an investment. Let it sit. It's just boring land, basically. Just buying land of what's left of it in America. Yes, exactly. That's the American dream.

Got to get that dirt, George. Yeah. Now, is this a self-directed IRA? It is not. It is not a self-directed. It's just a regular Roth IRA. Okay. Well, in that case, you've got to be using a self-directed Roth IRA to buy that kind of investment property. Are you planning on paying all the taxes and all this because you're not

of retirement age? What's your plan there? Have you looked into the details? Well, since it's a Roth IRA, and I could be misinformed here, but all the taxes are paid up in front, so I wouldn't be hit with any of the fees as long as I don't take anything out that is not returns. So any of the money that's put in there— Yeah, the contributions. I would only be funding from my contributions, sorry. I just don't want to unplug all of that money that's growing for you with compound interest right now at your age at 34. Yeah.

You leave a hundred. That is my concern. If I'm you, honestly, you've done so well. Why can't you save up $45,000 and just pay for this land in cash? I definitely could. Like I said, it's just that's the vehicle that I had at this moment for it. So that was my thought process. But I definitely could.

It would probably take another year or two to realize that goal. Yeah, but I'm with George, Kevin. I really want you to consider what he's saying, because now you get a little both-and as opposed to, well, I got to just move right now on this piece of land. There's going to be a lot of land. You're in such good financial shape. You're sharp. You work hard. I hope you hear what George is saying. I think he's absolutely right. I't touch it i mean your money's gonna double about every seven years and that's averaging you know 10 in the market and so that hundred grand is going to turn into 200 without you touching it without you adding a dime right and right and and just just to clarify one thing i mean also

the but i would also be returning from the land too, right, when I go to sell. Maybe. That's my thought process. We just don't know. We don't know what the land's going to do versus the market on average for the last, you know, 80, 90 years. And so there's a lot of unknowns in this scenario. I hope your land doubles, but that still is going to be less than your account doubling. So I would still say your account is the better investment.

And at 34, man, you got so much time to let that thing grow and you can save up in a year. Make that an awesome goal to buy land in a year. There'll still be land out there and it'll still be cheap. If it's 45 right now in 2022,

it's not going to be too much more in 2023. Understood. Okay. Yeah. I love the goal, though. I love the heart behind it, man. Yeah. Congratulations on getting with it.

Stay the course. I like it, George. Save, congratulations on getting with it. Stay the course. I like it, George. Save it up. Wait that year. Gives you more chance to kind of see what's the right land. Yeah. You kind of get that fever. And unplugging all those contributions and that rot that you worked so hard.

Yeah, I'm with you. I don't want to do that. I like that. Let's go to Mark in Dallas, Texas now. Mark, how can we help? Yeah, hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call. Sure.

So I am single, 55 years old. I have been on step two in a debt repayment journey for five and a half years, paying back $323,000. I'm down to $60,000. Wow. That's awesome, Mark. That's getting with it,000. Wow. That's awesome, Mark. That's getting with it, man. You're breaking up on us. Speak directly into your phone.

Mark, are you there? Did you go in a tunnel? Yeah, I'm here. All right, so here's where we left off. You had paid off over $300,000. You're down to $60,000 or so. That's where we lost you. Right.

Yeah. Yeah, and so my question is, in this toxic work environment, I can't deal with this anymore. What's going on? What's happening? I've got two. It's just a really toxic environment. Yeah, man, I can hear it all over you. What's happening?

Just the bullying. Who's bullying you? Is it coworkers or your leader? Leader. What does bullying sound like and look like what's happening either get this done or i'm gonna look for somewhere else wow what kind of work are you doing i'm a technical project manager yeah i'm so sorry mark you feel threatened You feel threatened. You feel threatened. Yeah.

You feel threatened every day, don't you? Yeah. Yeah. So let me fucking collect myself here. I have two rental properties that are paid off. Great. What are they worth? $300,000 apiece.

Wow. And I have $300,000 in a traditional IRA. And so my question is, should I just sell the rental properties and get out of this entire thing and simplify my life? Well, I'll let George weigh in on that one. I will say that if it helps you, I have an opinion, and I think if it helps you leave this toxic environment and get healthy at the age of 55 and also get rid of that $60,000 in debt, I really like it. I think this is a combination of money and I think it's a combination of mental and emotional health, George. Yeah. If this job is this, if this money and the debt is what's keeping you in this toxic job, then I'm selling one of the rentals because it's not worth going in there one more day.

But if you can go switch to another job because technical project managers are in high demand and you can go work somewhere where your leader doesn't make you feel so small, I might do that first before I go selling off the rentals and dealing with the hassle of that and losing some of that cashflow, especially as you head into your retirement years.

So I'd take a pause here and go, do I hate this field? Do I hate this job? Is it my leader? And it sounds like if you switch to a place where you are valued, because we've got technical project managers here at Ramsey Solutions,

and we love them, and we care about them, and we never threaten them and make them feel small. I agree with you. I don't disagree with George. I'm fine with selling one. I tend to always go for the fastest solution.

I felt his voice change when he said, I could sell one and I could be completely free and out of this thing. And that's why I say to you, you have worked and busted your tail. Five and a half year journey. For five and a half years, you still got $60,000 to go. You can always get another rental property. You're going to easily pay off the debt, get the emergency fund, fat and fully funded. Come on, Mark. How would that feel?

Oh, my God. Yeah. That my god yeah great and you're still going to have money left over mark you know what i mean you have a mortgage currently on your primary residence well i i do have uh my primary mortgage um and the other thing is i've got about thirty thousand dollars in cash um so i i literally was uh sitting there last night, just throw everything at the debt and leave. Yes, do it. You've done the numbers. I want you to get a better job, better environment, and I want you to pay off all this debt and get a whole fresh start. That's what I want you to do.

You deserve it. You are worth so much, Mark, no matter how he's made you feel. And I'm telling you, I think this is a great fresh start for you. You've got the cash. You've got the IRA. You're still going to have a rental. I'm telling you, yes, sell it, get debt-free, and start over. You feel that hope in his voice?

Oh, yes. It all changed so good. George, thank you, pal. Good stuff. Always good to be with you. I want to thank our team and the Control Room. Thank you for what you all do to make this show possible. I want to thank our audience.

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