The Ramsey Show - App - When You Have Ability, You Create Your Own Security (Hour 2)

Episode Date: November 12, 2019

Retirement, Home Buying, Career Tools to get you started:  Debt Calculator: http://bit.ly/2QIoSPV Insurance Coverage Checkup: http://bit.ly/2BrqEuo Complete Guide to Budgeting: http://bit.ly/2QEyonc Interview Guide: http://bit.ly/2BuGnZE Check out other podcasts in the Ramsey Network: http://bit.ly/2JgzaQR 

🎵 🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. You jump in, we'll talk about your life and your money. It's a free call at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225.

Starting off this hour is Paul in New Jersey. Hey, Paul. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. What is up, Dave? It is good to be here. Good to have you, sir. How can we help? So I got a question. My wife says I'm too prideful. That's not a good sign. I just have to. Maybe not, but let me run through the numbers, right?

So I try to stick to a budget. She doesn't stick to the budget. We make about $5,000 per month, and she blows her end on Lord knows whatever. What is her end? What do you mean her end? So she makes about $2,000 per month. So you don't do a budget together that you both decide on what's going to happen to the household income? No, I'm saying $5,000 is what comes in per month. And both of you decide what's going to happen to that?

How does she have an end? I don't have an end. I see. I guess the problem is I feel like I'm responsible of paying all the bills, and now when things get behind payment and things end up showing up late and cable gets cut off once in a while, I'm the one that's getting hated for it and disappointed, and I don't really think that's necessary. Okay.

Well, the cable shouldn't be cut off. You should either cut it off and not have it, or if you can't afford it, or it should be in the budget and be paid on time. And so here's the way it should work. The two of you put all the money, every single freaking dime that both of you make, in one pile. That is called our money for our goals, then we sit down at the kitchen table and give every one of those dollars an assignment. And then we execute on that plan that we both have agreed on. Pinky swear and spit shake. It's a contract. And so out of of that you would plan and say i you know this is

my income this is your income so this the total of that is our income and the first thing we're going to do is buy food and here's our food budget the next thing we're going to buy is lights and water and cable and here's that budget here's what that's going to cost this coming month and then here's the house payment this coming month and then here's and then here's and then here's and everything's written down to where every dollar that we as a couple have made is given an assignment and we are but we both have a vote on where that money's going to go and how it's going to be spent and we are both in agreement that this is how we are going to spend our money. There's no end, her end, your end. There's no you're supposed to pay all the bills and she's not.

We both work. We both have a pile of money. I mean, we have a pile of money as a couple. For better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, unto thee all my worldly goods I pledge pledge the old-fashioned marriage vows say and if you went at it that way i think all of what you're describing would disappear wouldn't it it sounds like it because you would never plan to not pay the cable bill well your money we try to stretch every dollar so no i no, no. You would have a written plan where every one of your dollars of income is going to go on paper, on purpose, or in the EveryDollar app that both you and your wife has agreed to,

meaning there is no money to spend anywhere except what we've agreed to. You don't have any side deals. And so we spend exactly what we both agreed to, and we both have a vote. You would never set out with both of you sitting at the kitchen table looking at all of your income and intentionally get the cable cut off. Well, she says I'm living above our means. We're living above our means. You haven't heard a thing I said.

No, I'm listening. Okay. Would you be living above your means if you did what I told you to do just now? I think there's one problem. I think we probably have overstretched our money as far as we can. Okay, so when you laid out that budget, you think you'd run out of money? If you sat down and planned the month of December on paper,

you're saying you don't think you have enough income to cover your bills? I think it's some things are going to have to get sliced. Some things are going to have to get paid late. So you don't have enough income in the month of December to pay December's bills?

I mean, we could say that. It's a math thing, man, do you or not? So what do you make? What's your take-home pay? It fluctuates because I'm an Uber driver, and of course, that's not how it's supposed to be. I wish the world could be better, but my income's more around like $2,200 per month. Okay, and what does she bring home? She brings home a steady $2,000. Okay, so we have $4,200. How much is your rent? Rent is about $2,000. There's the problem.

Your rent is 50% of your income. There's no possible way you can make it on that. The income either goes up or you have to move. Well, I guess moving is not really an option okay i don't think i can help you sir i appreciate you calling in open phones at 888-825-5225 kevin is with us in california hi kevin welcome to the dave ramsey show hi dave thanks for taking my call sure what's up uh so last year i found myself without a job for the first time in my life. I'm 56 years old and the severance period is now over.

So I'm wondering if I actually have enough to retire and maybe do something I want to do. Do you want to do something that earns an income? Not really. I want to work for a nonprofit or volunteer or just, you know, visit the grandkids, that kind of thing. And you're 56? Yeah. Okay. What did you used to do? I was an HR executive for 30 years, various companies.

Okay. But I really don't want to go back into that because i decided i don't like people so hr will do that to you being an hr exec will do that to you it'll go i have seen so many stupid butt things i just don't like people that's so fun i love it all right so uh how much do you have in your nest egg so i've got a million in retirement can you live off of the income that it creates no then what are you how are you going to make it if you don't create an income well i've got 750 and you live't create an income? Well, I've got $750,000. Can you live off of the income that your nest egg creates?

If the answer is no, then you have to create an income. Situate the investments in such a way they create an income that you can live off of. I think you do have enough, it sounds like. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Folks, let's cut through the bull. Interest rates are exceptionally low, so you're missing out if you have not called Churchill Mortgage to see if you can save money on your home loan. Lots of other companies are out there claiming great deals, but don't get lured by slick advertisements. No-cost refinance offers do not mean they're free. Churchill

Mortgage has a no-bull refinance. This means there are no hidden fees. They will shoot straight with you. Yes, Churchill can offer loans with no closing costs, different down payment options, or, of course, a traditional refinance. The key difference is you can trust my friends at Churchill to let you know what you're getting up front so you can make the smartest choice and save the most money. Go to ChurchillMortgage.com. Do it today while rates are low. This is a paid advertisement. NMLS ID 1591. NMLSconsumeraccess.org. Equal housing lender. 761 Old Hickory Boulevard, Brentwood, Tennessee 37027. Joe is with us in Arizona. Hey, Joe, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show.

Hey, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. It's a pleasure to talk to you. Love your show. Love what you stand for. I really appreciate it. Thank you, sir. How can I help?

Well, my question today is about Roth versus traditional IRAs. Up until last July, I was serving in the military, and so my taxable income was always low, always in pretty much the lowest bracket, tax bracket. So I've always been a Roth IRA contributor, Um, and, but this year is the first year where my taxable income is going to be significantly higher and bump me up to a higher tax bracket. So I'm wondering if it makes sense to kind of change and start contributing to a traditional IRA so I can try to get myself bumped back down to that lower tax bracket. Yeah.

How old are you? 35, sir. 35. Okay. Yeah. So let's just say that from now until 65, we put in $6,000 a year, okay? $500 a month, right? Let's just use this as an example.

That's your Roth IRA or just an IRA. It could be Roth or traditional. You put the same amount on either one, right? Okay. Let's say that that was done at 12% and that's for 30 years. That would mean that that account is going to have around $5,200,000 in it. Okay? Put one IRA aside, one $6,000 amount, $500 a month for 30 years,

and it's in a series of good growth stock mutual funds. If I'm half wrong, you know, you still came out okay. But let's just use this as our example. Okay? Now, we've got 30 years at $6,000, which is $180,000 that you have put in. Okay? Mm-hmm. $6,000 a year times 30 is $180,000. We're saying that there's around $5,200,000 in there.

So around $5 million of the account is growth, and around $200,000 of the account is money you put in. Is that right? Sure, yeah. Okay. In either case, whether it's traditional or Roth. Now, when you get ready to take the $5,200,000 out, you would have, in a Roth, it would be 100% tax-free. Correct.

Because you've already paid the taxes on the $180,000 you put in, no tax deduction on that, and the rest of it would be tax-free growth. so that if you if it is a traditional you would have gotten a tax advantage a tax break on the two hundred thousand dollars during the time the one hundred and eighty thousand dollars because you took the deduction each year which is what you're asking about on a traditional however the entire account is now taxable right so you will pay the taxes on it when you take it out you just don't pay them today. Today you would get the write-off on the $180,000 portion. Is that making sense? Yes.

Okay, so taxes on $5 million would be somewhere in the range of $1.5 million. Okay? So with the Roth, you don't have any taxes with the traditional you got a million and a half dollars in taxes that's what you traded for a write-off on 200 000 right bad trade sure you do the roth you do the roth you see why yeah i do you can take a tax deduction now on,000 and pay a million and a half more in taxes later. Yeah. Not a good plan.

Yeah, yeah. So even if we take the savings from the traditional and invest that, let's say we invest that um that would grow to enough to pay your taxes if you could invest that in a tax deferred account and mathematically that would happen and it would balance out exactly you'd exactly break even yeah just break even huh yeah so it really doesn't matter how much you make you you're always going to be a Roth IRA contributor. Is that what I'm listening to? Yeah, because the growth is the bigger portion. It's 93% of the account.

96% of the account is growth. And that portion being tax-free is so much more beneficial than the tax deduction on the 4%, the $180,000. So I'd rather have $5 million tax-free than I would a tax deduction that I later have to pay taxes on, $180,000. Sure, sure. Yeah, that makes sense. I've always been a Roth IRA contributor, so I just don't know if anything changed even going up the tax bracket with everything.

Yeah, it's a good question. But, you know, if you just run the numbers out, if you just run it out, and, you know, if I'm off a couple million dollars one way or the other, the principle is still the same. Right, right. It's not going to change. You're not going to reach a point where the mathematics make this anything but a slam dunk. Sure. a point where the mathematics make this anything but a slam dunk sure and so uh the only time a roth ever i mean a traditional ever makes sense over roth mathematically is if you're like 62 years old and you're going to leave it alone for four years or something then your growth portion

of the account is not going to end up more than the contribution portion much because you're not going to be in there long enough for the growth to occur and so mathematically then the tax deduction might actually be more valuable than the growth portion since it's so small being a um being there but it's not about the tax bracket i do a roth ira every year i do my 401k as a Roth. And I'm in as high a tax bracket as they make and they make up a special one for me. So, I mean, it's just ridiculous. They just want all my money.

So, it's crazy. And it is my money, by the way. It's not yours. So, you people that want to raise taxes on other people, that's always your way to fix something. There we go. Hey, thanks for the call, man.

Open phones at 888-825-5225. Karen is with us in South Carolina. Hey, Karen, how are you? Hi, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up in your world? Wonderful.

Thank you. Well, first of all, thank you so much for your financial ministry. You have helped me so much over the years, so I'm hoping that you can help me figure out some numbers today. I'll try. All right. Well, I am in the process of buying my first home, and I do not know whether it's better for me to take out a mortgage, you know, borrow the money or liquidate some of my stocks and mutual funds and just pay the thing off with cash and let that be over with. Wow. So what price range home?

What's that? What price range home? $260,000. And how much in the stocks and other things that you could liquidate total? $315,658. How old are you? 47. Do you have other retirement stuff going already?

Yeah, I do have my retirement. I fund that each year. I've got about $315,000 in that. And then I do own some property, some other lots in neighborhoods that are worth about $365,000. Very good. Good for you. Yeah. What do you make?

Anywhere from $50,000 to $90,000 a year. Where'd all this money come from? Just working and investing and just trying to live below my means. Man, you're a rock star. You're a rock star. So what we know from having studied 10,000 millionaires and the largest millionaire study ever done in North America that prompted Chris Hogan's number one bestselling book,

Everyday Millionaires, all the data is in it. What we know from that study is that the two primary financial things that millionaires do is they steadily invest in their 401ks and they have a paid for home and so the debt free 100 debt free is a part of the millionaire equation it's part of the wealth building equation i've enjoyed that too and so if i were in your shoes i'd sell off a few lots and pay cash or i'd sell off these stocks and pay cash i'd do a little of both but there's no possible way you should have a mortgage you have done so good why would you ever have a mortgage. You have done so good.

Why would you ever go into a mortgage? You've done so good. Now, if you had a paid-for house, would you borrow on it in order to buy that other stuff? Nah. Sell something and pay cash. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. If you're going to join this team, we want someone who cares and has a passion about what we do. That's why we trust LinkedIn Jobs. They are the best at matching the right person with the right job.

We don't want someone just looking for a 9 to 5. We want thoroughbreds. One of the things that distinguishes a world-class thoroughbred in racing is the size of their heart. A true thoroughbred in the workplace is someone with a heart that is going to be staying and growing with our company. You can't get a more highly targeted field of thoroughbreds than LinkedIn jobs. They literally screen candidates for both those hard and soft

skills that you're looking for so you can hire the right person. LinkedIn makes sure your post gets seen by the people you want to hire. It's no wonder someone gets hired every eight seconds with LinkedIn. Get started today. Pay what you want and get $50 off your first job post. Visit linkedin.com slash Ramsey. Terms and conditions apply. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, John and Lindsay are with us. Hey, guys. How are you?

Hey. Better than we deserve, Dave. Love it. Welcome. Where do you guys live? We're from Grand Rapids, Michigan. Fun. So good to have you.

Welcome to Nashville. Thank you. And how much debt have you paid off? $233,000. All right. How long did this take? Just over four years. I believe 50 months.

Yeah. Very good. All right. And your range of income during that four years? $90,000 to $127,000. Cool. What do you guys do for a living? I'm a registered dietitian and I work in food service.

I'm an architect. All right. Very good. What kind of debt was the $233,000? Student loans. Oh, Sally Mae got her eviction notice. Sally Mae and Wells Fargo. You guys went big.

I mean, you went big into the student loan mess. Wow. How old are you? 31. 31. You've been out of school nine years? Just year 22? I took a little longer.

A little longer, Dave. Okay. So how long have you been out of school? Six, seven? Seven years, I believe. Yeah. Okay. All right.

And you come out of school with $233,000. Yep. Whoa. That had to be a little bit overwhelming. lot overwhelming we needed a plan yeah so you were out of school a couple years and this stuff's kind of bearing down on you you're starting to feel the weight of it and four years ago something happened what happened we got married oh there it is let's combine the misery basically yeah we both got a wait a minute how much debt did each of you have i had about 60 yeah the rest is me okay mr mr architect yeah i got you all right hey that's

fun so you both knew this coming into the marriage yep and you talked about it and you said as soon as we get married we got to attack it absolutely tell me your story what happened so before we got married we decided that we let's see we read your book we took your class after we got married and we decided we have to do something we can't live like this under this debt this is not what we want in life so once we got married we really attacked it uh we took all of the money that we got from getting married all of the gifts we we got from getting married, all of the gifts, we put that towards student loans. Every little bit, then we devised our plan and just went hard. We went really hard. I mean, you guys have been busting it for a long time. Yeah, we go out to eat nowadays.

Now you get to see a restaurant from the inside. Wow. Yeah. Very good. Cool. So what made you know to do this? How did you get connected with us or what happened? I think it was just so much that, you know, we had to find somebody else that knew what they were doing because we didn't. Yeah. We heard you on the radio when we would be driving back and forth. We had lived in Detroit for a little bit and would drive back and forth to Grand Rapids. And we heard you on the radio and that was really a big push for us. And also we knew looking forward about two years ago, just over two years ago, I had a kidney transplant.

So looking at that medically, looking at what that was going to cost in our life, that was a big fear of how are we going to pay for this? What are we going to pay for this what are we going to do yeah so um yeah we kept paying off even though we we saved money for when i was going to be off from work and kept going and here we are today wow just never stop i mean we were saving for when when we were um working on saving for her to be off work, you know, we just saved money. And it was funny because every time we saved money, I felt like we spent more when we thought we had more money saved. So we just, whenever we got paid, we just put it towards the student loans.

Yeah. Wow. The day we got paid is the day we put money towards the student loans. Love to see that number go down. And then knock out Snowball just one loan at a time. So you did all this from just listening on the radio? FPU. Oh, you went to Financial Peace.

Yep. We have every dollar. We still use it. We will continue to use it. Good. So took the course, listened to the radio, read the book. Cool. Continue to read the books.

Lots of books. Yeah. Well, thank you very much. First book I ever read. Cover to cover, probably. And you're an architect? That's a little scary. All right.

So for luxury, anyway, not for school. So what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? This is an impressive thing you've done. Feels good. I think the key for me and for us was the budget because when there was a budget and there was a goal, there was nothing that was going to stop me personally from reaching that goal. But our goal and our budget was done together and we were both on the same page. Yeah, I think we had set goals and be like, all right, when do you think this student loan will be paid off?

Let's beat it. And we were like, oh, we could probably do it then. I was like, do you think we can do it sooner? We were like, yeah, let's just do it. And so we just worked more overtime. You just turned it into a game. Yeah. It was a big game.

Every conversation was, how are we going to do this? How are we going to do it faster? I mean, we joked. We were like, as we were getting closer, we were like, what are we going to talk about when we are debt-free? Because, I mean, it consumed us. I mean, you just got to stay focused on it and talk about it all the time because if you just set a budget and forget about it,

you're not going to accomplish it. You got to stay focused and, you know. I have people ask me how'd you do this i'm like simple we just set a budget and stick to it but and lived on nothing yeah we did we lived on nothing we really did eat rice and beans dave yeah for real you did as a dietitian these numbers reveal that i mean you paid off you know 50 000 bucks a year for four years and making 90 there's no room in that not after taxes and everything else you've been doing nothing yeah yeah we uh we make fun of you a little bit a little bit but i just was like that means we're doing it right

yeah we don't want to be normal that's not where we we are. I think we owe a thank you to our parents. Absolutely. We don't have trash. We just bring it to their house. So we didn't have cable. We didn't have internet. No, we didn't have internet for the first couple years we were married because we would just get everything done we could at someone else's house

or whatever it was that we needed to do online, and we didn't have any streaming services. We had PBS, and PBS is still great. Yeah. After all this time, yeah. Well, well done, you guys. Thank you. Very, very proud of you.

Thanks. We got some exciting news, too. Oh, yeah. John became a licensed architect before we paid off our student loans, so that was a whole lot of studying. Wow. Good for you. Congratulations. The one book he read paid off, student loans, so that was a whole lot of studying. Wow. Good for you. Congratulations.

The one book he read paid off, Dave. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was used to working 60 hours a week, so things started slowing down at work, and I was like, I guess now's the opportunity to try and get debt-free or try and get licensed before we do our debt-free scream. So I can say I'm a licensed architect.

Yeah, I love it. Yeah. Good for you, man. Set a goal, and, you know, she was there helping me. I mean, I think that's the best thing we learned was set a goal and work together. I couldn't have gotten licensed in six months. It usually takes people five years to even get close to that. So, yeah.

Well, good job, guys. Very well done. And then we'll be welcoming a baby in May. Yay! Life doesn't get any better. Licenses, babies, debt free. Yep. 30 years old.

It's all laid out. Well done, guys. I'm looking at weird people. Here we are. So proud of you guys. Thanks. Very, very well done. Good for you.

All right. John and Lindsey, Grand Rapids, Michigan, $233,000 paid off in four years, making $90,000 to $127,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Well done, you two. Very well done.

Well, that's exactly how you do it right there, man. They have been busting it. A kidney transplant, and in the middle of all that five years and two or four years and 233 000 paid off making 90 to 127 you know what that's called perseverance that's what that's called that's not accidental did you know no one wins by accident? The only time you win is an intentional act. You aimed at something and you went for it. It doesn't just occur. It's not a random lightning strike. You're so lucky. No, you're not. You did it. It wasn't luck. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show.

Hi, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Great. I would love your advice today on how to negotiate for an income and a new job opportunity, which I am interviewing for officially on Thursday, including a potential signing bonus. Okay. What are they offering? Well, I've already had a conversation with them ahead of time that I know that at least it would be $150,000 easily based salary.

And they did say that they know the situation I'm in and that they have been, quote-unquote, known to give signing bonuses based on some compensation that I know is coming to me in March that I've already earned for this year. And we were talking about a February 1st start date. So I've had preliminary conversations with them. How much is the compensation due to you in March? In March, I have about a $60,000 or $65,000 growth check that I would be leaving the table if I left. And you think these guys are willing to match that?

I don't know um my you know i i'm starting to think that the 150 000 might actually be too low like i why would i leave here i've i kind of i'm a 47 year old single mom got divorced what do you make now my income this year is going to be at a high of $260,000. However, because I'm in sales, 75% of that income was paid out in the fourth quarter of this year. And so $165,000 of my income is taxed heavily as bonus. No, it's not. No, it's not. No, it's withheld at a higher rate. But it's not taxed at a higher rate.

Withheld. Okay. The withholding on bonuses, the IRS requires that an employer use a different chart for withholding, but it doesn't change the taxes on the money. The taxes are exactly the same. So you have an income of $260,000, and you're looking at a job that makes $150,000. Why? Well, I was thinking all along that I was, well, I've been waking up for 13 years thinking how nice it would be to not have to live this smaller base with such a large bonus that comes at the very, very end of the year.

Why? You make a ton of money. What's wrong with it? I know. What's wrong with making $260,000? Well, maybe nothing is. It's a high year. I mean, what do you think you're going to make a year for the next five years?

Well, my average income the last six years has been is 208 000 last year i made 140 000 and then it swung all the way up to 260 this year okay but my average i'll tell you what if you'll send me 60 000 at the end of the year i'll keep i'll keep half of it and i'll distribute the other 30 through the rest of the year just to make you feel good okay that's what you're talking about doing okay just set some of your bonus aside set some of your bonus aside and and smooth out and you know to give you a higher sense of stability because you feel somehow unstable which is what i do yeah which. Yeah. Which is what I've done for, you know, all along. So it's always worked out fine. But you've got all this money.

Yeah. Okay, listen, here's the thing. Okay. How long have you been a single mom? 13 years. And when you were first... My girls are now 20 and 17. Okay, so you're a single mom with little girls.

And what did you make the first year after the divorce? I made $73,000. And you were scared to death? Yes. And you've never gotten over being scared to death? No. I feel like I've been living fight or flight all along yeah it's driven you to see huge success but this is this is not this is not a math problem this is a

spiritual problem okay yes and part of it comes from this we all are uh straight commission everyone that works on my team is straight commission. Everyone that works on my team is straight commission because if they don't come to work for about six weeks, they quit getting paid. If they don't perform, they quit getting paid. Everyone has to perform and has to come to work to get paid. But when you're on heavy commission like you or self-employed like me

we just have a higher emotional realization of that but you get paid uh based on uh you're you're only as secure as your ability to leave the cave kill something and drag it home security cannot be provided by someone that has to make payroll on friday because they might not be secure they could turn around lay you off and you wouldn't even see it coming because you're not managing the books so there's no way you take a job making 150 when you're making 260 unless you hate the job you're in or you are in a toxic environment or something's immoral or wrong or something like that, then you would need to get out of there. But I didn't hear any of that.

All I heard was you still have the $75,000 scared young single mom living inside of you, and she's barking in your ear. Yes, I can't get her out. Yeah. I was thinking if I were to move over there and ask for a salary of $200,000 with upside, you know, with upside on top of... That'd be okay. But then you just need to make more than you make now.

Yeah. Because here's what you need to remember. Lynn, you have proven that you are worth $260,000 a year. We have documented mathematical proof that you are worth 260 000 a year isn't that cool okay yes it is sometimes i think i've uh you think you're an imposter and somebody's going to find out the real story yes like like i just you know but here's the thing you've done this for years this isn't a fluke it's not a one-time thing no there's no reason that i need to leave but i also want to go for this job but i guess if i'm going to go for it then i really need to go for it. For the right reasons. I'm showing exactly what I'm worth.

For the right reasons. Yes. Not for an illusion of security. Security is an illusion. You have security because you have ability. Okay. So don't take this for security don't take a pay cut and don't take this because that young single mom who was terrified and insecure and didn't have any confidence is barking in your ear because the woman i'm talking to has proven that she is worth $260,000.

That's pretty freaking incredible. I know. I just can't ever. I feel like I. You're not an imposter. You're not an imposter. Okay. You didn't do it just one time.

It wasn't a fluke. No. You have multiple Super't do it just one time. It wasn't a fluke. No. You have multiple Super Bowl rings on your hand. You're a Hall of Famer. This is not a fluke. And it's just never caught up to you. You never sat down and talked about it and thought about it. And so all the insecurities and all that.

We all have those tapes inside of us, by the way. I still sometimes think I'm a 28-year-old guy that just filed bankruptcy, you know. Sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night and I think I'm that guy still. But I'm not. I'm now 59. I got socks that are smarter than that guy was. So you're going to do so good. I'm so proud of you. Get at least 260 and only take the job because it's better people and a better upside, not because of insecurity or not because of supposed steady income.

You have a steady income because you have ability. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer and phone screener for the Dave Ramsey Show. If you would like to do your debt-free scream live on the show, make sure you visit DaveRamsey.com slash show and register. We would love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story.