The Ramsey Show - App - When Your Finances Are Reformed, Your Heart Is Too (Hour 2)

Episode Date: November 11, 2019

Debt, Home Buying, Taxes  Tools to get you started:  Debt Calculator: http://bit.ly/2QIoSPV Insurance Coverage Checkup: http://bit.ly/2BrqEuo Complete Guide to Budgeting: http://bit.ly/2QEyonc Interview Guide: http://bit.ly/2BuGnZE Check out other podcasts in the Ramsey Network: http://bit.ly/2JgzaQR 

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thanks for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Simon's with us in California. Hi, Simon.

How are you? Oh, hi, Dave. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up? Okay, so I'm a pretty new listener. Just to give a background around me, I'm 27. I make about $73,000 a year debt-free, and I have about, oh, maybe $65,000 in savings.

Now, my question is, I guess I'm on baby step four. I don't own a home yet, so I wasn't sure if the smart thing to do is to stop retirement investing until I have enough down payment for a home because homes around here are really expensive, and I don't know if I should invest my energy towards that or if I should stick with the 15% and then just save the rest for down payment? Well, folks do it both ways, and we're okay with either. In your case, you do have an unusually expensive housing market, so you're probably going to want to pause your retirement for a short period of time

and throw all the money at the down payment. Now, you need to allocate how much of the $65,000. Is that beyond your emergency fund or including your emergency fund? I have a separate $7,000 just tucked away as an emergency fund. That's a little low. Yeah. What do you make a year? About $73,000.

Yeah, a little low. You need three to six months of household expenses. If you lost your job tomorrow, what would it take you to exist for three to six months? And that's going to be more than seven. So I'm going to take another five out of that 65 as an example, make that 12 or something. That's probably on the low end still. And then I'm going to say I've got $60,000 sitting here for my down payment. Then I'm going to set a goal for what my down payment is.

Do you have a goal? Well, I'm looking at maybe around $150,000 or so. So you need $90,000. So you need $90,000. How quick can you get $90,000 more? Yeah. I don't know, maybe four years? Yeah, three maybe.

Three? Yeah. Yeah. I don't really want you out of your retirement savings for more than about three years. Okay. Because we're avoiding the 401K and we're losing all the potential compound interest going into the future. And even if you've got a match there, you're missing that too. So I tell people we call it

baby step 3b beyond your baby step but beyond your emergency fund if you want to temporarily stop or partially curtail your 15 going into retirement at baby step four and and instead do saving for a house down payment no more than about three years of doing that. And that's kind of a guideline that we've used for several years. And sometimes people stop it completely. Sometimes they don't stop it at all. Then you don't have the three-year guideline. And then other times they just kind of cut back and go, I'm going to put 5% in because I get my match. And then I'm going to put the rest of it in for the down payment. And just build your down payment as fast as you can build it and buy as fast as you can buy.

And then, of course, when you get ready to buy, the guideline is that we tell you not to buy a house where the payment is more, even after your down payment, where the payment is more than a fourth of your take-home pay on a 15-year fixed-rate loan. Susan's in Ohio. Hi, Susan. How are you? Hi, Dave. Glad to get to talk to you.

You too. What's up? We have three kids just like you do. They're all grown, all married, and our current estate says that we're leaving each of them one-third, but they're very uneven in their handling of money. So what do you think about somehow leaving it in the revocable trust it's in right now, maybe give them some and then leave the rest in the trust?

What do you think they would think of that and uh what are the tax implications for them no tax implication at all for them how much what's the size of your estate uh about a million okay all right and how old are you guys 75 okay and you have a long-term care insurance in place for nursing home care? No, we do not. Okay. So that could run $300,000 pretty easy. Mm-hmm.

And typically the lady outlives the husband, and so Papa goes in, burns through $300,000, leaves Mom with what's left. You'll still be fine. You're going to be okay. But that would affect this discussion because the first goal of this money is to take care of you and your husband and live your golden years. The second goal is whatever's left, you can leave to whoever you want to now um around our house uh our kids are in their um third 20s and late 20s and early 30s and uh we began having this discussion some 10 15 years ago with them um and we have used because we're a family of faith we're christians we've used that as our lens to discuss this and so what it amounts to

around our place is it sounds like this it's not really my money it's not really your money i'm managing it for god and so when i leave you this money i'm leaving you the responsibility to manage it it's not like you hit the freaking lottery in other words and yeah right and so um you know that and so if you're going to be an irresponsible manager is how it would sound in our house then i can't leave it to you because that would make me an irresponsible manager and so you have to be living a life of character of of productivity, and you need to be a trustworthy steward. Now, if you're not a family of faith, obviously you wouldn't use that lingo or that approach. You might go at it from another approach and just say, well, I love you too much to give

you something that would harm you, and apparently you don't know how to handle money, and so that would harm you. And so to be eligible for me to love you well, I need to see that you manage money well, and that would start with you attending Financial Peace University and getting your little butt on a budget. Right. Well, the one that doesn't um handle money so well we have given financial peace university but they have not attended yeah well i mean depends on how tough you want to be but the

bottom line is if you leave them this money is it really a blessing yes i don't think it is that's the question yeah i don't think when you leave someone if you give a 16 year old a car that's 600 horsepower and it's 180 000 car and they don't know how to drive is that really a blessing no it'll cause the child to smile and probably kill themselves because they don't know how to drive you know what i'm saying do we give a little bit? It's up to you. What I would do is I would use all of this to create some discussions to go,

guys, we love you so much that we can't give a drunk a drink. We're not going to finance your crazy world. So, quit living in a crazy world

and we can just divide this three ways. Please, help me with this. Go to this class and I'm going to have some kind, clear discussions.

This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Are high health care costs getting you down? Are you confused trying to navigate your options? Do you wish you could find an affordable, biblical solution to your health care costs? Based on New Testament principles, Christian Health Care Ministries, or CHM, helps Christian families, churches, and ministries join together as the body of Christ to share their major health care costs. Christian Health Care Ministries is the original health cost-sharing ministry. A Better Business Bureau-accredited organization, CHM members share to pay each other's medical bills. It's not insurance. It's Christians financially and spiritually supporting each other.

It's what Christian Healthcare Ministries has done for over 35 years. And our members have shared over $2.5 billion in medical bills. To learn more, visit chministries.org. That's chministries.org. Christian Healthcare Ministries is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. chministries.org. Derek is with us in Florida. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show, Derek. Hey, Dave. How are you doing?

Better than I deserve, man. How can I help? Hey, Dave. I had a question about Baby Step 3B. I am debt-free. I'm currently a renter. And I was wondering if instead of saving the money for a down payment on a house, I saved it for a down payment on an investment property like a duplex or triplex.

Is that okay, or I mean, is it okay to be a renter, or should I just try and get out and buy my own house? Well, anything's okay. I mean, it's not illegal, and you'd be owning a piece of real estate either way. The only thing that runs through my mind is something happens. How old are you? I'm 28. Okay, and you're single.

Yes, sir. Okay. Something happens when you buy a residence to live in to the way you live your life. I don't know exactly how to quantify all of it, but I do know that in studying 10,000 millionaires, one of the attributes we found, one of the demographic pieces of statistical information was that they not only owned a home, but they had a home that they paid off in 10.2 years on average.

And so that element to your future finances to own a paid for house, condo, whatever it is that you live in, I want in your future. So if you go the route you're talking about, make sure the next thing that you do is your personal residence. So even if you bought a duplex and you lived in half of it for a while, even if you got it paid off pretty quick, you might get married later and you buy a house and you keep the duplex as a rental. That kind of thing. You see what I'm doing there? So I don't want to make a carte blanche statement and say, no, rent your whole life and just buy investment properties.

I don't find that data point among wealthy people. They tend to own their residence and then on their rental properties or very quickly on both or whatever it is you see what i'm saying i got you there's nothing really mathematical here it's just more behavioral yeah and it just is there's an element to the stability of not being pushed out of a rental and rent not going up every year. And that all ends up turning into math. Because when you're pushed out, it's expensive to move. You're distracted from your career.

You have to concentrate on, instead of work, you have to concentrate on moving the cable deposit over and, you know, ordering a mover in, making sure the place is clean. You get your deposit back. You make a new deposit, shop for a new place, and all this crap that just takes your life away that is called moving. And so, you know, the more you stabilize, the better. But, you know, it wouldn't be unusual in your scenario for you to be married by 35

and buying a house with her, and then you had that other duplex that you bought when you were a single guy. That would be an okay thing. But my point is that over the scope of 20 or 25 years do i want you just buying rentals and you being a renter the whole time no i wouldn't i wouldn't tell you to do that i think you're gonna i think you're gonna enjoy the stability of the largest item in your personal budget which is your housing. That's why it's always a good idea to buy when you can get in a position to buy. Justin is with us in California.

Hi, Justin. How are you? Hello, Dave. I'm doing fantastic. It's such an honor to be speaking to you. You too, man. What's up? Hi. uh so i'm a firefighter in california and uh uh you know i've been following this program for

about a year and it is i feel like it has just changed my life and uh amongst my fellow firefighters i just feel like uh it's well i don't feel like it's it becomes such a pandemic problem with behavioral health. Firefighter suicide has actually surpassed 100 deaths annually each year. And I actually feel a very strong calling to help my federal firefighters achieve financial peace. And I'd like to be a financial coach for firefighters. And I just don't really know where to start and where to get the training for that.

Okay. Well, we have a class called Financial Coach Master Training where we train financial coaches, and you can do that over a period of time, and it's online. And we have enrichment events at least once a year that you can come to in addition to that if you want to continue to hone your skills. I can recommend that. The way I started was there was a guy doing what we do on Christian radio back when I started 35 years ago named Larry Burkett, and they had a training, and I went to their training in the mountains of north Georgia at a retreat center for a weekend on how to be a financial coach.

And as you might imagine, it's not rocket science. I already had a finance degree, and I had already been bankrupt when I went. And I have a lot of other letters and licenses after my name that says I'm supposed to know something about money but that was coaching me from the spiritual or teaching me to coach from the spiritual perspective as a Christian but what the Bible says about these things but also gave me a real insight on the behavior side of the equation which of course is spiritual as well and so the behavior side, the relational side, and then I began to study that even more just in general and has evolved into what we do now. So there's not a set certification by an outside entity.

We have trained more financial coaches than anyone else in America right now. We probably train 10,000, 15,000 people to do this. A lot of them do it as a ministry at their church, and they're just available because a lot of pastors aren't really equipped to help with a foreclosure. You know, they're not really equipped to help stop a repossession on a car. And we've, of course, shown someone the technical aspects and the tactical things to do in those situations, but also then the ability to minister to them. And so a lot of our folks do it that way.

We've got quite a few, too, that are financial coach. That's what they do for a living, and we send them leads from our website. And so you can check into both. It's called the FCMT Financial Coach Master Training on our website, and our team will be happy to help you and teach you more about it. I'm not aware of anyone else that's doing a thorough training on this unless you go into the financial planning side, and then that's a whole other – that's all about working with wealthy people

and investing in more detail and that kind of thing. And, of course, you could teach Financial Peace University. You teach it 20 times, you're going to know a lot about human behavior and about the way people handle money and the way things that work and nuanced processes there. So, good. Good question, man. We appreciate you joining us.

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George Camel is our host and just did an incredible job. The team did an incredible job with all the outside experts, whistleblowers, industry people. So go on Apple Podcasts, go on apple podcasts go on spotify google play wherever you get your podcast and the it's called well the seventh one dropped today it's called borrowed future make sure you're listening in this is the dave ramsey show. We'll be right back. In the Ramsey Investments headquarters on the debt-free scream stage, Giovanni and Portia are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Hello, Dave.

Doing great. Where do you guys live? Houston. Welcome. Good to have you. And all the way up here to do a debt-free scream. Yes, sir. Love it.

How much have you paid off? $58,253. Good. And how long did this take? 23 months. Wow. And your range of income? 77 to 94.

Very good. What kind of debt was the $58,000? A little bit of everything, Dave. We had a consolidation loan, a credit card, a car loan, student loans for each of us. You were just normal. Even a dentist and a little bit of karate. I love it. All right. How long have you guys been married? 11 years.

What happened two years ago? Our church had an initiative a building initiative and they were asking for money and we were given our tithes and i got really upset about that that how dare they ask me for more money and a friend of mine said well you have to check your heart about that and so i did and did some soul searching and looked at our budget and saw how much of our income was going toward debt. And God brought some conviction to my heart and needed a change. Ah, and then what'd you do? I picked up your book.

Okay. So, Portia, where are you when all this is going on? I was there, and the book was on the shelf for many years before this whole bold love fundraising thing happened at our church. And he said these were some changes we needed to make, and I wasn't ready. And, yeah, it took a lot of humbling on my part from God. But, yeah. I understand. What brought you around?

I honestly think it was God. I think it was God changing my heart. We were comfortable, and we were driving two cars. They weren't fancy cars, but they were nicer than our humble mobile that we ended up getting. And I didn't want to go. I don't know. I didn't want to get in a hoopty. I understand. Well, I don't blame you.'t want to get in a hoopty i understand well i don't blame you nobody wants to that's yeah but did you begin to see both of you that there was uh you know if you live like

no one else later you can live and give like no one else being free was it going to be worth it yes sir we we decided together um that short-term um heartache and displeasure sacrifice was worth long-term freedom and so we decided to go ahead and do it and uh yes i i was praying for porsche i said lord if you put it on my heart to do this you have to put it on her on her heart as well and yeah and he did and uh that's one of the first things we did is we sold her a car, her SUV. Yeah. That better be her idea, though. Yeah. It was my idea, but she agreed.

Okay. I finally agreed. I finally agreed. Wow. Well, congratulations, you guys. Sounds like quite a journey. Yes, sir. Like your heart was reformed while your checkbook was. Definitely.

Yes, it was a spiritual journey as well as a financial journey. A lot of hard work, long hours, not spending time with the family. Portia picked up some side work. Wow. It was just work all the time and saying no to a lot. Well, you busted it in two years. I mean, you kicked it. Yes, sir.

You guys are watching what you're doing. What do you all do for a living? I'm a police officer. And I do part-time grocery shopping and delivery. And what was the side work y'all picked up? Just extra police jobs, extra work. They pay pretty good.

They do. As much as possible. Over time, as much as possible. Portia, what about you? The grocery shopping. Just more of it? Yes, sir. I was staying home with the boys full-time, and then i decided to start doing that side hustle how old are your how old are your babies uh five and nine ah okay not not exactly babies but yeah you're young men okay very cool very cool you guys so when people find out you paid off000, how much of that was the sale of your car? $12,000 was the car.

Okay. And when they hear you've paid off that much debt in under two years, and they say, how did you do that? What was your secret? What do you tell them the secret to getting out of debt is? I would say budgeting, for sure. Selling every dollar where to go. Budgeting was key. And then just hard work and perseverance.

Because along the road, you're tempted to quit. It gets hard. Surprises come up, car repairs, medical issues, things you have to cash flow. And I especially was very discouraged when any of those items would come up that instead of putting money towards debt, we would have to then cash flow a medical expense or a car repair. So that was very hard and challenging, but thank God we persevered. Good for you. So you sound like people that process things in community. Who were your biggest cheerleaders?

I'd say our biggest cheerleader was our small group. We have a small group at church, and they were constantly praying for us. We had friends who also did their debt-free journey, and so they would encourage us as well. So there was our biggest cheerleaders. We had more cheerleaders, and we didn't really have anyone bringing doubt or questioning. That's good. That's good.

You didn't have to run anybody off then. Yeah. Except for the credit card company. What made you want to come all the way to Nashville to do your scream here instead of just over the phone? Well, we have very good friends in Chattanooga. Ah. And so we wanted to go see them, and we're also planning on moving to Chattanooga and so we wanted to go see them and we're also planning on moving to Chattanooga oh wow okay so we we thought it's a great excuse to go see our friends to maybe look

at houses and come see Dave and while we're up here run an hour and a half up the road and we'll do it yes I love it well I'm in this is great well done you guys very proud of you heroes thank you so bring the boys in what ages are they and what are their names? This is Gabriel. He's nine. And this is Samuel. He's five. All right.

Dave, if I could say just one more thing. Sure. All glory be to God. We thank him for giving us the strength to work and persevere through this. And also wanted to thank your staff, you and your staff. The work you do here matters. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, brother. Appreciate that a lot.

We're proud of y'all. You're heroes. You're why we do this. And you're the one that did the hard work. You're the ones that took the extra jobs. You're the ones that worked the extra hours. You're the ones that sacrificed a car. But you're free.

You're free. You're completely free. So proud of y'all. We got a copy of Chris Hogan's book for you, Everyday Millionaires. And that's going to be next on your journeys. Now, you might be the first millionaire in your family. I don't know. That could happen.

Way to go, guys. We're very proud of you. All right, Giovanni, Portia, Gabriel, and Samuel. $58,000 paid off in 23 months, making $77,000 to $94,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free!

We're debt-free! Woo-hoo! That is a changed family tree. I'm looking right at it. I love it. Congratulations, Mom and Dad. You stood up. Proud of you.

Very, very proud of you. Personal finance is 80% behavior. It's only 20% head knowledge. The problem with my money is the guy I shave with. If I can get that guy to behave, he can be skinny and rich, but he's got issues. And so it's very unusual for someone to completely change their finances without having simultaneously changed their heart, changed their behaviors, in the process, their relationships. For those of us, like that young couple and me, that are people of faith. Our relationship to God has changed and strengthened. And that's where all that emotion comes from. Because there's this culmination, this moment where we committed to doing something,

handling money God's ways, for God's glory, and then He transforms us to be able to do that. And then we're standing here in Nashville doing a debt-free screen. That's why it's emotional. Because it's real. It's more than just math, people. This is the Dave Ramsey Chef. We'll be right back. Thanks for being with us, America. We're glad you're here.

888-825-5225. Well, our Financial Peace live event for Charleston, South Carolina is sold out. Chris Hogan and I will be there on November the 20th doing the event that evening. If you've never seen one of these events, we would love to have you be part of it. And you still can be by live stream. And so, you know, you can get ten people together and eight of them are living paycheck to paycheck. And if you're sick and tired of that, well, we can help. The Financial Peace Live from Charleston, November the 20th, is going to be live streamed.

And you'll learn all of the proven plan. We're going to walk you through the baby steps. We're going to laugh together and cry together. And it's pretty cool. There's a lot of host sites out there, and it's completely free to attend one of the host sites of the streaming. So you check around, look at our website. We can show you everything. And if you want to just watch it in your home,

we'll charge you a small fee, and you can do that. So here's where your closest friends learn how to win with money. Sign up to attend a host site in your area by texting livestream to 33789. That's livestream, one word, to 33789. This event, again, for Charleston, South Carolina, is a sellout. It is our last financial peace event of the year. This coming weekend, Chris and I will be, and Anthony and others, will be doing the SMART conference all day long in Sacramento. And there are about 100 tickets left to that before it is sold out.

And it is this coming Saturday all day long. Meg Meeker on parenting, Les Parrott on marriage. The John O'Leary speaking. Absolutely amazing, inspiring story. Patsy Claremont on fear. Ken Coleman on, of course, careers. Anthony O'Neill, of course, on teens and college debt. Chris Hogan on millionaires.

And I'll wrap up the day. And so we're looking forward to having you guys with it. As I said, there's going to be about 10,000 000 of you there i think there's just under 100 tickets it was like 83 tickets when i looked a few minutes ago so you can still get into that event you cannot get a ticket anymore to the sold out event in charleston pretty sure that's shut down it is oversold slightly we might oversell it a little bit more because we always have about a 10% no-show. But come on. We'd love to have you.

But at a minimum, check out on November the 20th, the Charleston Financial Peace Live event with Chris Hogan and me. And that, of course, again, is live-streamed. And we're announcing today that there are some host sites that you can attend and watch it for free. Some of the churches that have taught a lot of Financial Peace University and so forth around the nation, we're letting them stream it. So check it out. Text the word live stream to 33-789.

John is with us in Michigan. Hey, John, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave, thanks so much for taking my call. Sure. What's up? Hey, a couple questions for you. I'm on Baby Step 4. I just recently built up my fully funded emergency fund. Good. And 30 years old. I have a wife who also works full-time. She actually took one day off to be able to stay home with our one-year-old son that day.

We got another baby on the way. At the end of our budget, we are just able to do baby step four, don't have anything else to go into five or six. The question I've got for you is one of the blessings of being a minister is I'm able to take advantage of the minister's housing allowance. And basically anything that I put towards my mortgage or additional principal on my payments reduces my taxable income by that amount. So what I'm wondering is, is it better for me to try to go crazy and pay off my house and put additional payments towards that and receive those tax benefits or stick with baby step four and just uh invest 15 of my income i don't have any uh any um retirement benefits just doing a roth ira um no i would be putting 15 of your

income towards retirement and then I'd be living on a budget. It's a very, very unusual budget that has absolutely nothing left above that. If you have no other debt payments, you paid off all of your other debt. Yep. Totally, totally debt-free. What's your household income? Uh, we're at about 65, uh, combined. How much is your house payment? Uh, I just refinanced into a 15%, so it's about, uh, 1,350 bucks. Okay. Yeah, it might be that as your income edges up over the years, um, that, that, that'll loosen up a little bit and you'll be able to put more towards it. I also would tell you to double check the tax advice

that you've gotten because i'm pretty sure it's wrong uh the pastoral deduction is that you can take a full credit for every bit of the house payment principal interest taxes and insurance additional principal i'm almost positive is not deduct, unless the total is below the HUD average housing cost in your area. And it's very likely yours is not below that. And so I don't think that extra principal is as deductible as you think it is. The write-off is not there. But I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I'm not. So double-check that part.

And that does not change the equation, though. I'm still going to put 15% away for retirement, and then as I can find money, I'm going to do kids' college in five, and as I can find money above that, I'm going to start paying off the house early. But good question. Thank you for joining us. All right, and line four is Lisa in Arizona. Hi, Lisa. How are you? Hi, Dave. I'm well, and you? Better than in Arizona. Hi, Lisa, how are you?

Hi, Dave, I'm well, and you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? I've got an embarrassment of riches. One of my daughters and my son received a substantial amount of money from my brother's estate, and I want to know how to minimize the taxes. It will be used to pay for college. That was his request.

How much money? I've got non-qualified of $6,600, an inherited Roth of $17,800, an inherited IRA of almost $32,000, and then another death benefit of $87,000. And then our parents had put together some ESAs, and that's another almost $40,000. Okay. The only thing that's taxable there are the inherited qualified plans. The rest of it's not taxable. Right.

And so the inherited IRA is almost $132,000. That's huge. Yeah, they're going to pay the taxes on it as they use it. I mean, you have a mandatory distribution on it that is based on their age. I don't understand the five years versus the RMDs because if we use the RMDs, she's only going to get about, I don't know, $2,000 a year.

That's not going to be enough to pay for college. With all the other money? Well, with the other money, it will be. So use the inherited ira last yes okay because you know let it grow without paying taxes on it before you have to pay taxes on it okay it'll be the last thing i use and i make sure it's all invested in good mutual funds how old are these kiddos uh she's 17 my son is 20 and I made what I thought was a mistake because I took out his $87,000 death benefit and put it in his account to use for college. But there was an automatic 20% removed from that.

From the death benefit? Yes. Of what? The death benefit of what? A death benefit off a pension? I don't remember which part it is there are so many moving parts and different okay well there's not there should not be a 20 withholding on life insurance benefit yeah it was probably the pension then okay a pension would be also taxable and yeah they're going to pay some taxes on that. It's not income tax that your inherited money is not taxable,

but inherited money that is inside of a retirement account that's never been taxed will be taxed. Thus, the inherited IRA is going to be taxed. The pension distribution is going to be taxed. And so, yeah, that's all there. But that's, you know, it's not the end of the world. I probably would have taken that. I don't think you have a choice on that distribution. You probably had to take it.

And the withholding of 20% may or may not be the actual tax either. So be aware to calculate and have the actual taxes that are due by a professional tax preparer calculated so that you get the right amount held back for taxes. And this money, they don't end up in tax trouble after all this. But, yeah, it's a wonderful gift. You've just got some fishhooks to unravel here. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer and phone screener for the Dave Ramsey Show. If you would like to do your debt-free scream live on the show,

make sure you visit DaveRamsey.com slash show and register. We would love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story.